This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2015-12-14 10:43:08] TschavaTschigger : nope, mine is gewd
[2015-12-14 10:43:09] Yepachuchu : it jumps and dips at rather convenient ti
[2015-12-14 10:43:14] Yepachuchu : gotta jump the gun on order
[2015-12-14 10:43:22] Yepachuchu : times
[2015-12-14 10:47:28] jung1 : so 3000 today?
[2015-12-14 10:47:38] podizzle3k : today.
[2015-12-14 10:47:51] podizzle3k : $3000
[2015-12-14 10:48:01] jung1 : us or zimbabwe?
[2015-12-14 10:48:12] podizzle3k : ounces of gold
[2015-12-14 10:48:20] jung1 : fine enough
[2015-12-14 10:49:50] podizzle3k : good time for a bitfinex pump
[2015-12-14 10:50:12] zanza : dat settlement pump Kappa
[2015-12-14 10:50:18] wurstgelee : i agree
[2015-12-14 10:50:21] wurstgelee : ;)
[2015-12-14 10:52:20] wurstgelee : okc pushing it nicely
[2015-12-14 10:53:05] wurstgelee : 458 futures, still new highs
[2015-12-14 10:53:06] podizzle3k : was a kappa necessary there zanza kappa
[2015-12-14 10:53:48] podizzle3k : wow okcoin out of nowhere
[2015-12-14 10:53:52] wurstgelee : YEP
[2015-12-14 10:53:54] wurstgelee : :D :D :D
[2015-12-14 10:54:19] wurstgelee : niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice candle
[2015-12-14 10:54:21] messiaen8844 : podizzle3k: lol, not margin called on 7D after 80$$ drop, back on green side now
[2015-12-14 10:54:32] messiaen8844 : Very scary lomg
[2015-12-14 10:54:44] podizzle3k : messiaen884 same here
[2015-12-14 10:54:49] wurstgelee : mh
[2015-12-14 10:54:52] wurstgelee : buy or not to buy
[2015-12-14 10:54:54] wurstgelee : damn
[2015-12-14 10:54:58] wurstgelee : cant decide oO
[2015-12-14 10:55:03] messiaen8844 : 4hgave some nice dips
[2015-12-14 10:55:05] podizzle3k : 443.70 might be cheap shortly
[2015-12-14 10:55:19] wurstgelee : might
[2015-12-14 10:55:21] wurstgelee : damn
[2015-12-14 10:55:23] wurstgelee : gone
[2015-12-14 10:55:26] wurstgelee : problem solved ;)
[2015-12-14 10:55:28] messiaen8844 : Theres some resistance here
[2015-12-14 10:55:28] jung1 : but expiry in hour
[2015-12-14 10:55:29] podizzle3k : sleger woke up dammit
[2015-12-14 10:56:33] wurstgelee : jung1: if it keeps that pace, it doesnt matter
[2015-12-14 10:56:34] wurstgelee : ;)
[2015-12-14 10:57:19] irbbqu : LOL
[2015-12-14 10:57:19] irbbqu : Finex
[2015-12-14 10:57:24] wurstgelee : damn
[2015-12-14 10:57:49] wurstgelee : regrets. i have them ;)
[2015-12-14 10:57:53] podizzle3k : negative premium again
[2015-12-14 10:58:12] podizzle3k : to settlement price anyway
[2015-12-14 10:58:35] wurstgelee : next time ill buy instead of thinking ffs
[2015-12-14 11:00:21] wurstgelee : still negative
[2015-12-14 11:05:25] wurstgelee : >1$ below mark
[2015-12-14 11:07:36] wurstgelee : okc futures ready for next up ;)
[2015-12-14 11:09:22] REKT : Liquidated short on XBT7D: Buy 2000 @ 455.51
[2015-12-14 11:09:27] wurstgelee : i wonder why we have no liquidations
[2015-12-14 11:09:30] wurstgelee : ah lol
[2015-12-14 11:09:32] wurstgelee : good timinig
[2015-12-14 11:09:37] wurstgelee : *timing
[2015-12-14 11:21:04] macios15 : nice negativ
[2015-12-14 11:21:04] wurstgelee : more up
[2015-12-14 11:21:16] wurstgelee : futures still heading north
[2015-12-14 11:21:25] wurstgelee : so is finex
[2015-12-14 11:22:05] podizzle3k : bitstamp needs to get it together
[2015-12-14 11:22:09] wurstgelee : yep
[2015-12-14 11:22:23] podizzle3k : even pathetic coinbase passed them up
[2015-12-14 11:22:32] wurstgelee : ~6h until okc dumps all this up back to shit :)
[2015-12-14 11:22:43] habibi : wurstgelee: why?
[2015-12-14 11:23:03] wurstgelee : dunno why. probably because they like it ;)
[2015-12-14 11:23:19] podizzle3k : thats ok if they do i'll just make money on the way back up. now that i learned my hard lesson about not isolating profits
[2015-12-14 11:23:27] podizzle3k : expensive lesson
[2015-12-14 11:23:45] wurstgelee : whats with this negative premium ffs?
[2015-12-14 11:24:01] wurstgelee : 37 mins to settlement...
[2015-12-14 11:24:03] podizzle3k : flash pump more likely to crash in 40 minutes
[2015-12-14 11:24:09] wurstgelee : mebbe
[2015-12-14 11:24:16] wurstgelee : it can crash in 36 mins imo
[2015-12-14 11:26:32] haxmb : any admins around? :)
[2015-12-14 11:27:25] BitMEX_Arthur : haxmb: How can I help
[2015-12-14 11:27:48] haxmb : hey Arthur
[2015-12-14 11:27:51] haxmb : i reffered a friend here
[2015-12-14 11:27:56] haxmb : but he didnt use the link
[2015-12-14 11:28:07] podizzle3k : wow i have 2 very different prices for huobi atm
[2015-12-14 11:28:12] haxmb : can he mail you guys and apply my referral code after signing up?
[2015-12-14 11:28:40] haxmb : BitMEX_Arthur :)
[2015-12-14 11:28:42] BitMEX_Arthur : haxmb: Send us a support ticket and we can work something out
[2015-12-14 11:29:03] haxmb : ok BitMEX_Arthur, he sent a mail, is that good enough?
[2015-12-14 11:29:27] BitMEX_Arthur : haxmb: Yes we will speak with him directly, thanks
[2015-12-14 11:29:28] habibi : why tradeblock is so low?
[2015-12-14 11:29:55] wurstgelee : habibi: coinbase and stamp
[2015-12-14 11:29:59] wurstgelee : both 445
[2015-12-14 11:30:58] podizzle3k : habibi: https://tradeblock.com/markets/index/
[2015-12-14 11:31:51] wurstgelee : going up now tho
[2015-12-14 11:32:12] wurstgelee : stamp needs to get its head out of its arse
[2015-12-14 11:33:01] podizzle3k : 4000btc sell at 450 probably isnt helping
[2015-12-14 11:33:12] wurstgelee : hehe, yep
[2015-12-14 11:34:03] habibi : on which exchange?
[2015-12-14 11:34:51] wurstgelee : stamp
[2015-12-14 11:34:55] messiaen8844 : .618 fibo now
[2015-12-14 11:35:33] wurstgelee : okc still pushing
[2015-12-14 11:35:38] podizzle3k : plus conjuction with ceres just kicked in
[2015-12-14 11:35:49] habibi : big buys on weeklys
[2015-12-14 11:35:50] habibi : okc
[2015-12-14 11:35:53] wurstgelee : yep
[2015-12-14 11:35:59] wurstgelee : podizzle3k: haha
[2015-12-14 11:36:18] wurstgelee : wow
[2015-12-14 11:36:24] wurstgelee : 24.2k @ okc futures in 1 min
[2015-12-14 11:36:27] wurstgelee : now thats a buy
[2015-12-14 11:36:39] habibi : yep that what i am talking :p
[2015-12-14 11:36:59] wurstgelee : i was talking about the same, didnt realize that sell wall was gone, just looked @ price ;)
[2015-12-14 11:39:28] wurstgelee : finally, stamp and coinbase catching up a little
[2015-12-14 11:42:15] zanza : dat settlement pump
[2015-12-14 11:42:42] wurstgelee : mh
[2015-12-14 11:42:44] wurstgelee : *dump mebbe ;)
[2015-12-14 11:42:52] habibi : yea okc is pushing
[2015-12-14 11:42:57] habibi : to make settlement price here higher
[2015-12-14 11:43:04] wurstgelee : check again :p
[2015-12-14 11:43:05] habibi : u really believe that :D?
[2015-12-14 11:43:06] zanza : yeah, big whale
[2015-12-14 11:43:09] wurstgelee : habibi: ofc nut
[2015-12-14 11:43:10] wurstgelee : not
[2015-12-14 11:43:18] habibi : lel
[2015-12-14 11:44:31] wurstgelee : fair price seems stuck ;)
[2015-12-14 11:44:59] wurstgelee : ncie dumping
[2015-12-14 11:49:33] hellyeahent : so manipulated, I hope every futures will be banned
[2015-12-14 11:50:03] wurstgelee : hellyeahent: what do you think you're trading here?
[2015-12-14 11:51:25] hellyeahent : air
[2015-12-14 11:51:40] messiaen8844 : learn your fibos :)
[2015-12-14 11:51:55] SnackyCoins : learning to trade is expensive
[2015-12-14 11:53:35] habibi : SnackyCoins: :(?
[2015-12-14 11:53:53] SnackyCoins : just saying... nobody is good right away
[2015-12-14 11:54:15] habibi : ah didnt seen that helly is crying
[2015-12-14 11:54:58] habibi : its not manipulated. its just fear of missing out and other hand fear of holding bag :p
[2015-12-14 11:55:01] billyboy402 : where are the Fee price again , i cant find it
[2015-12-14 11:55:15] chromaticcr : https://www.bitmex.com/app/fees
[2015-12-14 11:55:15] habibi : References->fee
[2015-12-14 11:56:33] habibi : anyway that free money https://cryptowat.ch/coinbase/btcusd/1m
[2015-12-14 12:01:41] billyboy402 : when you get -0.025 fees that mean u should get paid ??? wheere do you see that
[2015-12-14 12:02:02] SnackyCoins : yes you get paid if you are the maker
[2015-12-14 12:02:25] SnackyCoins : dunno where it shows up.. you get it right away
[2015-12-14 12:02:57] slacknation : wallet->trade history-> save as csv
[2015-12-14 12:03:31] hellyeahent : fees are so high :/
[2015-12-14 12:08:24] slacknation : looks like rogue bot on coinbase lol
[2015-12-14 12:08:53] habibi : Account/wallet - tradehistory
[2015-12-14 12:09:08] habibi : there u can see if u get money in commision or it was taken from u
[2015-12-14 12:09:19] habibi : if there is - then its taker commision
[2015-12-14 12:09:23] habibi : if no - then its maker
[2015-12-14 12:10:10] habibi : or vice versa? :p
[2015-12-14 12:13:39] sleger : warning, rapidtrades testing his bot on coinbase
[2015-12-14 12:13:59] j8 : commision `Comm.` is negative if you're maker, or `ExecComm` if you're looking at the api
[2015-12-14 12:18:20] podizzle3k : lol what happened
[2015-12-14 12:18:23] podizzle3k : okcoin died?
[2015-12-14 12:19:15] podizzle3k : finally that slow adjustment worked out
[2015-12-14 12:19:24] wurstgelee : yep
[2015-12-14 12:19:27] wurstgelee : saved my ass ;)
[2015-12-14 12:23:24] podizzle3k : lol https://cryptowat.ch/coinbase/btcusd
[2015-12-14 12:23:42] podizzle3k : looks like coinbase says if you cant beat china join em
[2015-12-14 12:23:49] habibi : sleger: hahaha :D as we can see works perfectly
[2015-12-14 12:24:19] podizzle3k : either that or someones bot went horribly horribly wrong
[2015-12-14 12:24:40] habibi : yea people claming that are making good moeny on it
[2015-12-14 12:25:09] wurstgelee : rapidtrades unleashed his bot on coinbase
[2015-12-14 12:26:03] sleger : wurstgelee: you're 12 minutes late : ""sleger: warning, rapidtrades testing his bot on coinbase"" joke already made
[2015-12-14 12:26:13] zanza : what?
[2015-12-14 12:26:16] wurstgelee : oO
[2015-12-14 12:26:34] wurstgelee : yes, sorry, working... can't follow every thing written here
[2015-12-14 12:26:41] wurstgelee : also cba to scroll :)
[2015-12-14 12:48:53] chromaticcr : orderbook so quiet...
[2015-12-14 12:49:03] jung1 : 3000 today
[2015-12-14 12:49:29] sleger : that's more than a 5x price increase
[2015-12-14 12:50:36] wurstgelee : *cny
[2015-12-14 12:51:18] chromaticcr : 3000 bitcoins to be margin called today
[2015-12-14 12:51:45] wurstgelee : only 57k of open interest @ xbt24h
[2015-12-14 12:51:50] wurstgelee : thats close to nothing
[2015-12-14 12:52:17] jung1 : bitcoin is dead
[2015-12-14 12:52:20] wurstgelee : lol
[2015-12-14 12:52:22] wurstgelee : :D
[2015-12-14 12:52:23] laisee : people are tired from making profits day after day ... ;-/
[2015-12-14 12:52:26] TschavaTschigger : well we just had settlement?
[2015-12-14 12:52:36] jung1 : 52min ago
[2015-12-14 12:52:42] TschavaTschigger : still
[2015-12-14 12:52:45] wurstgelee : yes, no need to not take position again ;)
[2015-12-14 12:53:01] wurstgelee : all this volatility....a 100x dream
[2015-12-14 12:53:08] sleger : sorry, didnt know jung1 was chinese
[2015-12-14 12:53:20] TschavaTschigger : mid of november there was a time where we had 70-80k open interest the whole day
[2015-12-14 12:53:39] sleger : yeah but I wasnt there at that time
[2015-12-14 12:53:43] wurstgelee : hahaha
[2015-12-14 12:53:58] wurstgelee : but yes, you're certainly a factor
[2015-12-14 12:54:01] wurstgelee : ;)
[2015-12-14 12:54:50] jung1 : sleger: konichiwa
[2015-12-14 12:55:26] sleger : ohayou gozaimasu
[2015-12-14 12:55:32] jung1 : sake!
[2015-12-14 12:55:51] laisee : sekuhara!
[2015-12-14 12:55:57] jung1 : sushi!
[2015-12-14 12:56:12] jung1 : ok thats all that I know
[2015-12-14 12:56:26] messiaen8844 : enjo kosai
[2015-12-14 12:56:27] jung1 : oh and huobi
[2015-12-14 12:56:28] laisee : free chinese lessons ... Bitmex is amazing.
[2015-12-14 12:56:40] sleger : chinese ? wtf
[2015-12-14 12:56:52] Yepachuchu : ahahah
[2015-12-14 12:57:13] laisee : /S
[2015-12-14 12:57:29] laisee : bit correct on historical basis tho.
[2015-12-14 12:58:36] chromaticcr : i wish more chinese know Bitmex so we can have more bargain order here
[2015-12-14 12:58:57] jung1 : bitmex have office in china
[2015-12-14 12:58:59] chromaticcr : aka: order intended for fomo and gamble
[2015-12-14 12:59:07] TschavaTschigger : we don't need the Chinese volume once rapidtrades starts his bot here
[2015-12-14 12:59:46] messiaen8844 : using the consolidated strategy BOTTOM-TOP reverse indicator
[2015-12-14 13:03:23] messiaen8844 : not sure if we can talk about this here, but has anyone used 1broker before? is it reliable?
[2015-12-14 13:05:38] wurstgelee : u have problems taking a long position there during rallies i heard
[2015-12-14 13:06:22] wurstgelee : probably the same for short, this just hasn't happened for a while
[2015-12-14 13:07:05] chromaticcr : yes I had, established since like bitcoin was 20USD
[2015-12-14 13:07:11] j8 : messiaen8844: i've used it a little, it more or less works as described. one time they stopped quoted SnP while i had a winning position, it was that crazy day in august when a lot of the brokers went down
[2015-12-14 13:07:43] chromaticcr : but their cost for funding positions (overnight cost) is very high.....
[2015-12-14 13:08:07] chromaticcr : at least for bitcoin pairs. others are fair
[2015-12-14 13:09:13] messiaen8844 : thanks, looking for currency pairs and commodities
[2015-12-14 13:09:28] messiaen8844 : bitmex covers all my BTC needs :)
[2015-12-14 13:09:32] podizzle3k : lol that coinbase bot is back at it
[2015-12-14 13:09:53] podizzle3k : ive used 1broker it works ok
[2015-12-14 13:10:03] podizzle3k : but consider that there is no real records of the trades
[2015-12-14 13:10:22] podizzle3k : you are basically putting all your confidence in the admins
[2015-12-14 13:10:53] podizzle3k : simplefx is another that uses bitcoin
[2015-12-14 13:11:04] messiaen8844 : we all are in the bitcoin world :), that's why I am looking for opinions regarding trust
[2015-12-14 13:11:49] podizzle3k : well so far they seem to be reliable. the fact that they shut off positions is a good sign
[2015-12-14 13:12:16] wurstgelee : i have parked some funds @ bittrex, some @ polo, some here, majority in my own wallet. didn't get fucked yet, avoided gox, mintpal, no funds on craptsy
[2015-12-14 13:12:22] wurstgelee : sooner or later it will happen
[2015-12-14 13:12:25] wurstgelee : ;)
[2015-12-14 13:13:37] zanza : what is bette for forex/stocks, simplefx or 1broker
[2015-12-14 13:13:49] zanza : 1brok has been around a few years, good rep so far
[2015-12-14 13:14:21] messiaen8844 : first BTC advice I got: never leave BTC on exchanges, but anyway in 2015 it has become a bit less risky if you use the major platforms.
[2015-12-14 13:14:37] messiaen8844 : and is paranoid with 2fa, security, passwords, e-mails, etc
[2015-12-14 13:15:31] chromaticcr : I vote for 1B, also the minimum position is 0.01 with no leverage, so you can just play around there...
[2015-12-14 13:16:19] messiaen8844 : I'm also looking forward to buy a hardware wallet, some family members are interested in holding BTC long-term, seems like the safest way for non tech-savy people.
[2015-12-14 13:16:46] jung1 : brain wallet ftw
[2015-12-14 13:18:00] messiaen8844 : lol
[2015-12-14 13:18:11] j8 : risky
[2015-12-14 13:19:56] wurstgelee : i wouldnt trust my brain that
[2015-12-14 13:21:34] j8 : even if you can remember something with high enough entropy to be secure, you have to enter it on an insecure device to spend
[2015-12-14 13:22:03] wurstgelee : depends on the device tho
[2015-12-14 13:22:28] wurstgelee : if u use a clean linux distro with a self-compiled, encrypted wallet, you should be relatively safe
[2015-12-14 13:23:09] wurstgelee : but the devil is a squirrel (german saying, dunno if it exists in english) :]
[2015-12-14 13:23:30] haxmb : devil is in the details :p
[2015-12-14 13:23:47] j8 : squirrel is better :)
[2015-12-14 13:25:53] j8 : if you're into keeping a second computer always offline and moving every transaction by usb, that's fine.. trezor is so convenient and basically does that for you
[2015-12-14 13:27:59] wurstgelee : yes, agreed
[2015-12-14 13:31:25] jung1 : cheap coin
[2015-12-14 13:31:48] jung1 : gonna be green
[2015-12-14 13:38:21] jung1 : or not
[2015-12-14 13:39:38] wurstgelee : ;)
[2015-12-14 13:44:53] podizzle3k : 08:16 - jung1: brain wallet ftw
[2015-12-14 13:44:57] podizzle3k : was that a joke
[2015-12-14 13:45:16] jung1 : nope
[2015-12-14 13:45:24] podizzle3k : dude a brain wallet is the absolute worst
[2015-12-14 13:45:43] habibi : true :)
[2015-12-14 13:45:43] podizzle3k : there are computers cracking them 24/7
[2015-12-14 13:45:49] podizzle3k : they dont even need access to your computer
[2015-12-14 13:45:51] habibi : aws instances :)
[2015-12-14 13:46:05] habibi : brainflyeeer FTW! hah
[2015-12-14 13:46:06] podizzle3k : if you use any words in the dictionary youre done for
[2015-12-14 13:49:27] habibi : basically if u use any sentence from any book/ any first letters of every word in sentence at any book/ any complications like that
[2015-12-14 13:49:33] habibi : just wait for rekt
[2015-12-14 13:49:56] podizzle3k : i think ill get a trezor
[2015-12-14 13:50:11] habibi : yep, love mine
[2015-12-14 13:50:15] Yepachuchu : if you want a good example
[2015-12-14 13:50:18] podizzle3k : just waiting for the terabit capacity to come out
[2015-12-14 13:50:30] Yepachuchu : google 'xkcd comic correct horse battery staple'
[2015-12-14 13:50:42] Yepachuchu : oops wrong window
[2015-12-14 13:51:10] habibi : podizzle3k: ohh trolling again
[2015-12-14 13:51:23] podizzle3k : yes but i really do want a trezor
[2015-12-14 13:51:28] habibi : so buy then
[2015-12-14 13:51:32] podizzle3k : I WILL
[2015-12-14 13:51:39] podizzle3k : ill f'n do it
[2015-12-14 13:51:41] podizzle3k : dont test me
[2015-12-14 13:54:21] podizzle3k : coinbase is gonna set a volume record at this rate
[2015-12-14 13:54:34] habibi : and someone gonna loose record money :D
[2015-12-14 13:54:42] habibi : its really easy money
[2015-12-14 13:55:09] podizzle3k : not only that but they are gonna be 80% of the tradeblock engine by days end
[2015-12-14 13:55:22] habibi : that wont be good
[2015-12-14 13:55:40] habibi : if it keep going 10$ up and down i minute candles
[2015-12-14 13:56:30] podizzle3k : wild
[2015-12-14 13:56:31] podizzle3k : i love it
[2015-12-14 13:56:33] podizzle3k : lol
[2015-12-14 13:57:10] podizzle3k : HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT CHINA WE CAN DO IT TO
[2015-12-14 13:57:11] podizzle3k : TOO
[2015-12-14 13:57:28] j8 : must be some bots in feedback or something... that's no way to fake volume
[2015-12-14 13:57:33] podizzle3k : arent coinbase's fees ridiculous too?
[2015-12-14 13:57:44] j8 : maker fee is 0
[2015-12-14 13:57:50] podizzle3k : well someone is taking
[2015-12-14 13:57:58] j8 : the broken bots
[2015-12-14 13:58:14] podizzle3k : winklevoss's bots
[2015-12-14 13:59:34] podizzle3k : its fascinating to watch
[2015-12-14 13:59:45] podizzle3k : i wonder what will be the fallout from this
[2015-12-14 14:01:34] j8 : whoever's losing money will be out before too long.
[2015-12-14 14:06:05] jung1 : meh I dont touch it
[2015-12-14 14:06:22] podizzle3k : ripped through about $125k so far
[2015-12-14 14:06:34] podizzle3k : will be a million by lunchtme at this rate
[2015-12-14 14:06:40] podizzle3k : dinnertime
[2015-12-14 14:06:50] podizzle3k : whatever theyre eatin at winklevoss hq
[2015-12-14 14:09:09] sleger : where are you guys looking at what's happening at coinbase ?
[2015-12-14 14:09:28] j8 : tradeblock
[2015-12-14 14:10:11] j8 : also on cryptowatch but they had some missing data
[2015-12-14 14:10:46] sleger : thanks
[2015-12-14 14:11:43] sleger : oh ok, I guess good day for makers there
[2015-12-14 14:29:01] TschavaTschigger : tradeblock index is doing really well, still giving coinbase low weight
[2015-12-14 14:30:41] podizzle3k : for now
[2015-12-14 14:31:01] j8 : TschavaTschigger: it's up to 70% on the 1-hour graph
[2015-12-14 14:31:12] podizzle3k : i tweeted about ti https://twitter.com/CryptoGoblin/status/676404728578863104
[2015-12-14 14:31:32] j8 : not smart enough to deweight based on this. it's deweighted when it diverges or the exchange goes offline
[2015-12-14 14:31:40] TschavaTschigger : j8: ouch you are right... that is awful
[2015-12-14 14:33:31] TschavaTschigger : shouldn't be too hard to deweight with some basic logic. i mean, 1h volume is like 20x higher than 1 week average, it's obvious something is going on
[2015-12-14 14:34:44] j8 : yeah, well they say it's weighted based on "recent and historical volume"
[2015-12-14 14:35:11] j8 : maybe it's too recent
[2015-12-14 14:36:18] sleger : tbh I think it would be way smarter to use bitfinex price instead of an index
[2015-12-14 14:36:35] j8 : that's how it used to be, and believe me this is better!
[2015-12-14 14:36:49] sleger : "this" = ?
[2015-12-14 14:37:03] j8 : xbx
[2015-12-14 14:38:15] sleger : i dont like the opacity
[2015-12-14 14:39:33] j8 : me neither, it's horrible. using one exchange is asking for trouble though.
[2015-12-14 14:39:35] TschavaTschigger : didnt finex flashcrash in august=
[2015-12-14 14:39:59] j8 : yes, that was when bitmex was indexed to finex, everyone was rekt
[2015-12-14 14:40:10] habibi : lel :D
[2015-12-14 14:40:20] habibi : not the shorters
[2015-12-14 14:40:42] sleger : yes but what id the other exchanges did follow and price settled down even lower, following bitfinex wouldnt have been bad
[2015-12-14 14:40:49] j8 : and anyone who bought volatility that day was laughing
[2015-12-14 14:41:22] sleger : or just use a fixed weighted index like ALL the other futures markets are using.
[2015-12-14 14:41:28] j8 : they didn't though, which is the whole point. if they followed xbx would follow too
[2015-12-14 14:41:33] TschavaTschigger : it's much easier to manipulate one market instead of 5... thatÄs the whole point
[2015-12-14 14:41:50] sleger : Using more complex formulas to determine a "fair value" is the role of traders, not the exchange
[2015-12-14 14:42:25] TschavaTschigger : sleger: in the case of bitmex, it's the point of the exchange, because they have to determine when to liquidate
[2015-12-14 14:42:31] TschavaTschigger : the role*
[2015-12-14 14:42:56] sleger : I would leave that to the market, what they have introduced is lagging indicator
[2015-12-14 14:43:29] sleger : and works fine on small moves that mean revert etc... but as soon as there are big moves, they will liquidate people too late and end up with large DPE, as happened few days ago
[2015-12-14 14:45:02] j8 : it would have been hard for that 300k to fill no matter what you did.
[2015-12-14 14:45:10] sleger : their fair value is just index plus fair basis. It is quite easy to see that fair basis is just moving average of past values of the market, which is fine on slow moving markets but will by construction be lagging on fast strong trends, which is when the worst DPE will happen
[2015-12-14 14:45:28] sleger : j8: automatic deleveraging = automatic fill
[2015-12-14 14:45:31] j8 : fair basis depends on the mid price
[2015-12-14 14:45:39] sleger : once again I am saying this is the best solution
[2015-12-14 14:46:34] jung1 : oh shit I just found plus/minus buttons here
[2015-12-14 14:46:40] j8 : getting deleveraged could be as bad as DPE
[2015-12-14 14:47:00] sleger : as soon as you know it you can releverage
[2015-12-14 14:47:07] podizzle3k : that coinbase bot is raising the price slowly too
[2015-12-14 14:47:07] habibi : in dpe i hate that u can actually make good profit during day
[2015-12-14 14:47:08] sleger : at least you are in control of what happens
[2015-12-14 14:47:14] habibi : and end up with lover money than u start with
[2015-12-14 14:47:14] podizzle3k : maybe its bill gates taking btc to $10,000
[2015-12-14 14:47:30] habibi : lower ammount of *
[2015-12-14 14:47:53] sleger : DPE is stupid : if I make 10$ then close everything, then market moves and there is DPE later on although I have no position I should NOT have to pay for other people
[2015-12-14 14:47:55] j8 : so you get deleveraged and have to leverage in at a price $10 worse, you still lost that difference
[2015-12-14 14:48:23] habibi : just futures things
[2015-12-14 14:48:29] sleger : j8: yes of course you lose it and its fine. Or you can do what DPE is doing now, wait for price to maybe rebound and maybe not lose. At least you're in control
[2015-12-14 14:49:48] sleger : but if you made money while there was no DPE and are out of the market, you dont risk losing it later on while other people only are gambling.
[2015-12-14 14:50:15] sleger : I can give you more example of why deleveraging is superior
[2015-12-14 14:51:27] j8 : i dunno, maybe it could be made to work, i feel like there would be many more cases where you have to act fast, maybe in the middle of the night, whereas most of the time the DPE goes to zero
[2015-12-14 14:51:53] j8 : people get liquidated literally all the time
[2015-12-14 14:52:01] sleger : if you like bitmex gambling your money then why not
[2015-12-14 14:52:19] sleger : I would rather be in control
[2015-12-14 14:52:56] j8 : it's only the illusion of control if your positions are constantly changing as soon as you walk away
[2015-12-14 14:53:34] sleger : they are not constantly changing, only when liq orders cant be executed in the market at liq price
[2015-12-14 14:53:51] j8 : which happens many times a day
[2015-12-14 14:54:19] j8 : they usually get filled later, or offset by maintenance margin
[2015-12-14 14:54:25] sleger : which doesnt happen often, only for larger orders. On bitVC (ok leverage is lower : 20x) it happens maybe once a week and my positions have been reduced by only a few percent (1-5%)
[2015-12-14 14:55:18] habibi : micmix we want our superior bot
[2015-12-14 14:55:20] j8 : here, it happens constantly
[2015-12-14 14:55:40] sleger : j8: it happens when the DPE indicator leaves 0%, how often is that ?
[2015-12-14 14:56:18] j8 : there can be unfilled liq's when it's still 0%
[2015-12-14 14:56:47] sleger : and consider that most of the time your position would be reduced by a couple of percents. Seriously, you are not really sure of how much it would affect your position, but it is much less than you think it is
[2015-12-14 14:57:29] habibi : recuced means i get part of my position balance back and left is still on same open price?
[2015-12-14 14:57:30] sleger : j8: "j8: there can be unfilled liq's when it's still 0%" yes -> when there is insurance fund >0 , same thing with automatic deleveraging. You dont get it : automatic deleveraging happens only if DPE > 0
[2015-12-14 14:57:36] laisee : sleger> would you prefer hourly etc margin calls?
[2015-12-14 14:58:16] sleger : habibi: it means when DPE leaves 0 actually pro rata of your position is closed at liq price
[2015-12-14 14:58:29] sleger : laisee: Do you mean settlement instead of margin call?
[2015-12-14 14:58:43] laisee : yes, you are bailed-in
[2015-12-14 14:59:06] laisee : no, I mean regular margin calls to top up collateral.
[2015-12-14 14:59:26] podizzle3k : aint no party like a coinbase bot party cuz a coinbase bot party dont stop
[2015-12-14 14:59:31] habibi : sleger: could u clarify my thinking, what would happened with my short during that big drop from 480 to 430?
[2015-12-14 14:59:47] sleger : habibi: it would be reduced by the same % as your position/NOP
[2015-12-14 15:00:04] sleger : part of it would have been closed, at the price of the liq order that didnt get filled
[2015-12-14 15:00:23] habibi : ah
[2015-12-14 15:00:27] habibi : so still profit
[2015-12-14 15:00:33] habibi : without profit loss
[2015-12-14 15:00:39] laisee : on quanto instrument your collateral falls very fast as market moves. so collateral/margin needs to be topped up earlier and faster than duration of the contract IMO.
[2015-12-14 15:01:01] sleger : laisee: doesnt really matter, it is still 100x leverage in, 200x leverage out
[2015-12-14 15:01:08] habibi : lets make 0.9% maintance instead for fixed leverage :D
[2015-12-14 15:01:52] habibi : but basically at that drop that night, there was about 140k contracts and later a bit more, so people probally lost tens of bitcoins here
[2015-12-14 15:02:48] podizzle3k : sleger complaining about DPE is the new rapidtrades complaining about premium
[2015-12-14 15:03:00] habibi : nah, i get him
[2015-12-14 15:03:12] habibi : i lost 1.5 btc coz of dpe, he lost like 5-10?
[2015-12-14 15:03:18] habibi : that night
[2015-12-14 15:03:35] sleger : The thing is that currently bitmex tries to optimize execution of liq orders to not make DPE often, but by doing that they create sometimes even larger DPE. I am only saying this should be left to the users to decide
[2015-12-14 15:03:37] TschavaTschigger : if one exchange suffers a flashcrash you can get 20btc wiped, even with just a 7k order
[2015-12-14 15:03:47] TschavaTschigger : totally bonkers do not use an index
[2015-12-14 15:04:00] j8 : yeah i lost a couple too. you make some good point sleger. it's a tradeoff
[2015-12-14 15:04:00] TschavaTschigger : to*
[2015-12-14 15:04:19] podizzle3k : sleger i do agree that dpe should only effect those that had open positions when open liquidations hit the market
[2015-12-14 15:04:19] laisee : ah, thats my question. If trade 1 contract during 24H am I exposing my account to a massive DPE in absolute worst case?
[2015-12-14 15:04:20] habibi : yea index is good, tradeblock blocks exchange that has flashcrash
[2015-12-14 15:04:24] sleger : habibi: I lost only 5 but that is not really the issue. I am just trying to argue that I think automatic deleveraging is better than current system
[2015-12-14 15:04:25] podizzle3k : affect
[2015-12-14 15:04:39] sleger : laisee: DPE is % of profits
[2015-12-14 15:04:47] habibi : shiet, thought u were the biggest shorter that night
[2015-12-14 15:04:52] habibi : so someone made way more
[2015-12-14 15:05:11] sleger : habibi: Overall I was short ~300k contracts, but not so much on 24h
[2015-12-14 15:05:17] laisee : sleger: > thx, was begging to wonder .
[2015-12-14 15:05:34] sleger : I lost 5btc due to dpe, not my trading profit/loss
[2015-12-14 15:05:35] habibi : 300k?
[2015-12-14 15:05:44] habibi : yea i know
[2015-12-14 15:05:47] habibi : same here
[2015-12-14 15:08:11] laisee : in ideal world, I would prefer having sib-accounts with allocated margin per and choice on topping up after margin call or having position deleveraged or simple liquidation.
[2015-12-14 15:08:14] sleger : My other example is any MM bot : you take very little risk (mine runs at below 2x leverage), bot makes stable profit, but large profit vs exposure taken, let's say 2btc a day with 10btc exposure. Then large exposure guys create DPE while bot almost flat. With DPE bot loses half of the profit although it never created risk for the platform. With automatic deleveraging, its position is changed from say long 5btc to long 4.5 btc... profit is almost unchanged.
[2015-12-14 15:12:03] habibi : what if dpe goes 40%, then u lost more than u earned
[2015-12-14 15:12:49] sleger : ? dpe applies to % of profits
[2015-12-14 15:12:56] habibi : tto withheld profit
[2015-12-14 15:13:10] sleger : ok so?
[2015-12-14 15:13:13] BitMEX_Sam : It only applies to the profit on that contract
[2015-12-14 15:13:35] sleger : BitMEX_Sam: still prefer DPE to automatic deleveraging ? personal opinion ?
[2015-12-14 15:13:37] habibi : hm doesnt withheld profit takes some of ur anavaible balance as well?
[2015-12-14 15:14:00] BitMEX_Sam : sleger: Yes, I think you are underestimating how much deleveraging would have happened during that event and who it would have happened to
[2015-12-14 15:14:08] BitMEX_Sam : Keep in mind this is a zero-sum game, the question is who gets hit and who doesn't
[2015-12-14 15:14:23] BitMEX_Sam : There's only so much profit to make because there's only so much in the system to lose
[2015-12-14 15:14:46] BitMEX_Sam : We've posted only one DPE loss on 24H, ever - with deleveraging, there would be losses all the time, every day
[2015-12-14 15:14:52] sleger : agreed, but low risk users like a MM bot is being penalized much more by DPE than auto deleveraging
[2015-12-14 15:15:17] sleger : "with deleveraging, there would be losses all the time, every day" => that is very inaccurate
[2015-12-14 15:16:42] sleger : with auto deleveraging there would be auto deleveraging every day yes, not losses first of all. Then users deleveraged could do what you're doing for DPE and leave open orders to retake their position (bitvc offers a bot to do that btw) at a no loss, which is risk that your current DPE algo is taking. Also, please note that auto delveraging happens ONLY when dpe > 0
[2015-12-14 15:17:04] sleger : (ie when liq order cant be executed at no loss AND insurance fund is empty)
[2015-12-14 15:23:00] sleger : Again another argument in favor of auto deleveraging (so many...) : we all agree leverage is more risky when there is high vol. Well if you keep a big open position in high vol market you should be more penalized if someone gets liquidated and cant be executed in market. DPE penalizes everyone the same even if they had closed all their positions before the move.
[2015-12-14 15:23:25] REKT : Liquidated long on XBT24H: Sell 1143 @ 448.37
[2015-12-14 15:25:24] habibi : coinbase should be delisted from tradeblock
[2015-12-14 15:25:25] habibi : lel :D
[2015-12-14 15:25:52] podizzle3k : i dont see the problem as long as the trades are legitimate
[2015-12-14 15:26:51] habibi : 10 dollars spikes
[2015-12-14 15:26:57] habibi : in minute candles
[2015-12-14 15:26:58] habibi : over and over
[2015-12-14 15:26:59] habibi : yea
[2015-12-14 15:27:37] podizzle3k : haha not quite $10
[2015-12-14 15:27:39] podizzle3k : more like $1
[2015-12-14 15:27:55] podizzle3k : oh wow now it is doing $10
[2015-12-14 15:27:59] podizzle3k : im about to get in on this
[2015-12-14 15:28:44] sleger : coinbase are not nice, they want commissions ok but they could shut down the client that is obviously not aware of whats going on
[2015-12-14 15:29:06] podizzle3k : nah
[2015-12-14 15:29:14] podizzle3k : reverse the trades too why not
[2015-12-14 15:29:19] podizzle3k : i say let it rock
[2015-12-14 15:29:23] podizzle3k : give them a call maybe
[2015-12-14 15:29:44] habibi : podizzle3k: yea sorry, 9.24$ not 10
[2015-12-14 15:30:11] habibi : people already withdrawing profits from coinbase so fuck them ;p
[2015-12-14 15:30:54] sleger : podizzle3k: how many conf they require to deposit btc ?
[2015-12-14 15:31:04] podizzle3k : no clue
[2015-12-14 15:34:45] sleger : oh well i never finished the ID process there, so I just hope rapidtrades will bring his new bot over here soon
[2015-12-14 15:35:23] laisee : looks awesome, bulldozer on a fixed schedule.
[2015-12-14 15:35:58] podizzle3k : up to 21.73% weight
[2015-12-14 15:37:45] REKT : Liquidated long on XBT24H: Sell 615 @ 447.65
[2015-12-14 15:45:27] j8 : podizzle3k: that's 24 hour avg, it's up to 80%, check the hourly chart
[2015-12-14 15:45:58] podizzle3k : yeah but the 24hr futures here uses 24hr avg right?
[2015-12-14 15:46:13] podizzle3k : by tomorrow it will be close to 80% then
[2015-12-14 15:46:46] laisee : seems like coinbase devs finally got the willy bot working
[2015-12-14 15:47:06] REKT : Liquidated long on XBT24H: Sell 6 @ 446.24
[2015-12-14 15:47:06] REKT : Liquidated long on XBT24H: Sell 3574 @ 446.59
[2015-12-14 15:47:26] REKT : Liquidated long on XBT24H: Sell 4 @ 445.72
[2015-12-14 15:47:26] REKT : Liquidated long on XBT24H: Sell 497 @ 445.63
[2015-12-14 15:47:26] REKT : HODL HODL HODL
[2015-12-14 15:47:40] SnackyCoins : lol
[2015-12-14 15:47:43] SnackyCoins : hoobs hoobin
[2015-12-14 15:47:51] SnackyCoins : cheap coinz guyze
[2015-12-14 15:47:51] podizzle3k : lol rektbot
[2015-12-14 15:51:59] TschavaTschigger : https://blog.coinbase.com/2015/12/08/coinbase-exchange-introduces-volume-based-rebates/
[2015-12-14 15:53:39] BitMEX_Sam : Well, we know who's getting 0.1%
[2015-12-14 15:58:01] TschavaTschigger : BitMEX_Sam: btw, @auth via msg... typical 3am brainfart, passed nonce as String to my jsonwrapper ;)
[2015-12-14 15:58:15] BitMEX_Sam : Ah - thanks for the update
[2015-12-14 16:03:40] laisee : @RektBitmex to see liquidations via twitter feed
[2015-12-14 16:05:10] podizzle3k : not much of a rebate if youre paying .1% on half a million $ of losing trades
[2015-12-14 16:05:22] podizzle3k : but im paying .1% instead of .25% !
[2015-12-14 16:05:29] laisee : !!
[2015-12-14 16:05:31] podizzle3k : btw looks like the coinbase bot party is over. bummer
[2015-12-14 16:05:42] BitMEX_Arthur : Someone fucked up hard
[2015-12-14 16:05:53] BitMEX_Arthur : Amazing it went on for so many hours
[2015-12-14 16:06:38] TschavaTschigger : maybe some bot takes fee structure into account when placing orders and the change fukked something up hard
[2015-12-14 16:07:48] BitMEX_Arthur : But then why would it be so aggressive
[2015-12-14 16:07:53] BitMEX_Arthur : someone was obviously trading across the spread
[2015-12-14 16:08:39] podizzle3k : a very very expensive mistake in bot logic
[2015-12-14 16:08:48] BitMEX_Sam : Whoa
[2015-12-14 16:08:54] BitMEX_Sam : Just saw about 40 executions hit cb
[2015-12-14 16:08:56] REKT : Liquidated short on XBT24H: Buy 2413 @ 448.32
[2015-12-14 16:09:03] BitMEX_Sam : Looks like the engine is constipated
[2015-12-14 16:09:07] podizzle3k : wow
[2015-12-14 16:09:14] podizzle3k : it spiked
[2015-12-14 16:10:25] laisee : maybe engine is 'confused' and bot is 'aggressive', but stupid'
[2015-12-14 16:12:48] podizzle3k : coinbase exchange trying out their new bots http://i.imgur.com/i5fEkjg.gifv
[2015-12-14 16:14:09] wurstgelee : BitMEX_Sam: btw, connection quality still "bad"
[2015-12-14 16:14:35] TschavaTschigger : I haven't had any disconnects anymore though
[2015-12-14 16:14:45] wurstgelee : no disconnects, yep
[2015-12-14 16:14:54] wurstgelee : oh, it just turned green
[2015-12-14 16:14:55] wurstgelee : nvm
[2015-12-14 16:14:56] wurstgelee : oO
[2015-12-14 16:18:20] habibi : podizzle3k: i would say rather this http://media1.onsugar.com/files/2013/06/17/777/n/1922283/4b335bba7661873b_make_it_rain.xxxlarge.gif
[2015-12-14 16:18:45] podizzle3k : haha yea
[2015-12-14 16:20:48] podizzle3k : it looks like that bot activity was altering the price on coinbase wallet site as well
[2015-12-14 16:20:54] podizzle3k : so maybe someone was trying to abuse that
[2015-12-14 16:21:10] wurstgelee : lol @ coinbase=tradeblock index now
[2015-12-14 16:21:12] wurstgelee : :/
[2015-12-14 16:21:24] BitMEX_Sam : Something very strange going on, I wouldn't say 100% that it was unintentional from the bot's perspective
[2015-12-14 16:21:31] BitMEX_Sam : Maybe we'll get a postmortem
[2015-12-14 16:21:34] podizzle3k : pump the wallet price with small order on the exchange then sell large amount on the wallet
[2015-12-14 16:21:37] podizzle3k : and vice versa
[2015-12-14 16:21:45] wurstgelee : >80% now...
[2015-12-14 16:22:11] podizzle3k : all that matters is 24hr weight
[2015-12-14 16:22:17] wurstgelee : yep, almost all
[2015-12-14 16:22:22] podizzle3k : its at 23 and will go down from here considering its over
[2015-12-14 16:22:29] BitMEX_Sam : Let me pull some live rates and see where they're at now
[2015-12-14 16:22:30] podizzle3k : probably back to around 15 by settlement