This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2015-10-31 21:32:32] peasant-wizard : I only trade BTC, don't have time for it all, but that was interesting to watch
[2015-10-31 21:32:51] messiaen8844 : buying BTC in brazil can be expensive due high spread, however there was really major valuation this year as our currency lost 50% value to the do
[2015-10-31 21:33:00] MrTecc : +20% in this one market made me curious, until i saw the spread
[2015-10-31 21:33:15] MrTecc : which is 16% :D
[2015-10-31 21:33:50] j8 : MrTecc: it's not unusual to see +100%, +500% even on bittrex markets
[2015-10-31 21:33:55] j8 : it's like penny stocks
[2015-10-31 21:34:02] MrTecc : i know
[2015-10-31 21:34:29] MrTecc : even pennystocks are more reliable
[2015-10-31 21:34:31] MrTecc : ;)
[2015-10-31 21:34:37] messiaen8844 : all pumps and dumps
[2015-10-31 21:34:47] MrTecc : but there they work
[2015-10-31 21:34:49] MrTecc : not in btc
[2015-10-31 21:35:01] wurstgelee : lol. the mark priece jumps up and down +/-$1.30 and more within seconds
[2015-10-31 21:35:03] wurstgelee : wtf is that?
[2015-10-31 21:35:09] wurstgelee : *price
[2015-10-31 21:35:25] MrTecc : thats called volatility
[2015-10-31 21:35:28] MrTecc : ;)
[2015-10-31 21:35:38] messiaen8844 : damn massive spread in XBT7D
[2015-10-31 21:35:41] wurstgelee : mah, price on exchanges isn moving that fast
[2015-10-31 21:35:54] wurstgelee : https://www.bitmex.com/app/index/.XBT
[2015-10-31 21:35:59] MrTecc : price in currencies move like that every day
[2015-10-31 21:36:00] wurstgelee : seems odd
[2015-10-31 21:36:29] wurstgelee : im watching chinam stamp, finex. these should be the basis for xbt index
[2015-10-31 21:36:42] MrTecc : btw, 1.30 at a underlying price of 330 is really small
[2015-10-31 21:36:48] wurstgelee : they dont move that fast currently - that doesnt explain the jumps
[2015-10-31 21:37:04] MrTecc : less than a third percent
[2015-10-31 21:37:19] wurstgelee : you dont get my point...
[2015-10-31 21:37:22] MrTecc : maybe just dont trade the tick chart
[2015-10-31 21:37:42] MrTecc : explain it
[2015-10-31 21:37:45] MrTecc : maybe i dont
[2015-10-31 21:37:56] wurstgelee : im trying, but you dont listen and keep explaining me fundamentals ;)
[2015-10-31 21:38:09] MrTecc : ok I shut up now
[2015-10-31 21:38:35] MrTecc : what market are you talking about, anyway
[2015-10-31 21:38:45] Murch : He's just saying the fair/mark price is jumping on here without the corresponding market actually acting that way.
[2015-10-31 21:38:45] MrTecc : btc/usd?
[2015-10-31 21:39:00] wurstgelee : ive written everything anyways... tldr: weighted average (=xbt index) ...exactly...what murch says
[2015-10-31 21:39:02] MrTecc : ok
[2015-10-31 21:39:27] MrTecc : murch i saw that, too, and dont understand it
[2015-10-31 21:39:57] wurstgelee : stamp is stable, china is no doing much, finex doesnt move that much ..alltogether the price should move $1.30 within a minut. and same down in the next minute
[2015-10-31 21:40:02] MrTecc : for me, its just a reason for trading smaller positions with stops farer away
[2015-10-31 21:40:12] Murch : Honestly though, just take a look at btc-e, it jumps around a lot.
[2015-10-31 21:40:13] MrTecc : true
[2015-10-31 21:40:16] wurstgelee : *should not
[2015-10-31 21:40:32] MrTecc : algos trading with algos
[2015-10-31 21:40:36] wurstgelee : Murch: afaik btc-e isnt weighted in xbt index?
[2015-10-31 21:40:37] MrTecc : probe-trades
[2015-10-31 21:40:47] Murch : Some of the markets tracked are just weird and I think the price doesn't update here immediately.
[2015-10-31 21:40:51] Murch : Oh it isn't? Nvm then.
[2015-10-31 21:40:59] wurstgelee : im not sure. i thought so
[2015-10-31 21:41:08] MrTecc : it depends on what ordersize threshold is used...
[2015-10-31 21:41:41] wurstgelee : still jumpin like crazy. never seen that here before.
[2015-10-31 21:41:51] wurstgelee : in one direction ok, but back and forth seems odd
[2015-10-31 21:41:57] MrTecc : if 1 contract is the ordersize, and thats the smallest possible trade, it can easily jump like that
[2015-10-31 21:42:06] wurstgelee : that wouldnt make sense
[2015-10-31 21:42:37] MrTecc : but thats how it is
[2015-10-31 21:42:43] MrTecc : even though it makes no sense
[2015-10-31 21:42:51] Murch : My best guess is that the markets being tracked don't act in unison. They might be haphazard during sideways movement.
[2015-10-31 21:42:54] MrTecc : maybe they all set up their algos wrong
[2015-10-31 21:43:08] MrTecc : good point
[2015-10-31 21:43:32] Murch : Apart from BTC just being volatile as hell in the first place.
[2015-10-31 21:43:44] wurstgelee : yes ofc, but not that volatile currently ;)
[2015-10-31 21:43:50] MrTecc : and as such a traders paradise
[2015-10-31 21:44:23] Murch : It's only really jumpy like that on exchanges with looooow liquidity.
[2015-10-31 21:44:51] Murch : Cause you can just tick on either side of the spread without any volume taking place.
[2015-10-31 21:44:55] wurstgelee : iirc that index is 50% finex, 25% stamp and 25% huobi?!
[2015-10-31 21:45:02] MrTecc : jea but thats offsetable with smaller orders and bigger price movements..
[2015-10-31 21:45:17] wurstgelee : might be wrong tho, i think i read that here
[2015-10-31 21:46:10] wurstgelee : https://www.bitmex.com/app/index/.XBT
[2015-10-31 21:46:24] MrTecc : I started here today with a small trades, and immediately wiped out 300$ due to max leverage.. but thats all recovered, meanwhile. but for today, I better keep off
[2015-10-31 21:46:33] wurstgelee : see the last 10 values
[2015-10-31 21:46:56] MrTecc : minutes
[2015-10-31 21:47:02] wurstgelee : ofc minutes
[2015-10-31 21:47:07] MrTecc : yes
[2015-10-31 21:47:26] MrTecc : but thats sick
[2015-10-31 21:47:45] wurstgelee : back and forth from one minute two another, "huge" jumps for an averaged index of currently not moving exchange rates ;)
[2015-10-31 21:47:54] MrTecc : I better start using the api myself...
[2015-10-31 21:48:10] wurstgelee : *not fast moving
[2015-10-31 21:48:20] wurstgelee : anyways. i just wanted to mention that this seem odd ;)
[2015-10-31 21:48:45] MrTecc : but I made so many trades today that I have no idea about the trading costs, and dont want to calculate it
[2015-10-31 21:48:53] MrTecc : so i have to wait for tomorrows settlement
[2015-10-31 21:48:59] Murch : This might be the index I think? https://tradeblock.com/markets/index/
[2015-10-31 21:49:02] MrTecc : yes, it is odd
[2015-10-31 21:49:10] MrTecc : i got it now
[2015-10-31 21:49:18] Murch : Must be coinbase and itbit
[2015-10-31 21:49:59] Murch : Oh nvm, it says they weight higher liquidity exchanges more.
[2015-10-31 21:50:07] wurstgelee : exactly
[2015-10-31 21:50:16] wurstgelee : thats why this should happen.
[2015-10-31 21:50:20] MrTecc : its 0,05%, so far so good, but on what trades....
[2015-10-31 21:50:21] wurstgelee : shouldnt
[2015-10-31 21:50:45] wurstgelee : non of their higher liquitdity exchanges move $1 a minute currently
[2015-10-31 21:51:22] MrTecc : anyone knows the number of new accounts these days?
[2015-10-31 21:51:30] MrTecc : maybe thats the reason
[2015-10-31 21:51:31] MrTecc : ;)
[2015-10-31 21:52:36] MrTecc : or number of total orders/number of market orders
[2015-10-31 21:52:55] MrTecc : but I can imagine how that looks like
[2015-10-31 21:53:50] MrTecc : its a currency generating industrie, literally
[2015-10-31 21:55:06] Murch : I definitely agree that it's strange. Maybe bring it up with one of the devs?
[2015-10-31 21:55:53] MrTecc : yes, if it stays like that
[2015-10-31 21:56:23] wurstgelee : its stable again now
[2015-10-31 21:56:30] wurstgelee : only jumped for a few minutes
[2015-10-31 21:57:16] irbbqu : MM bot offline?
[2015-10-31 21:57:29] wurstgelee : yep
[2015-10-31 21:57:31] MrTecc : and until then, I stay out.. btw wizard, why should tradeblock pricate traders not let sign up because of timeframes... on bitcoinwisdom I have a minute chart
[2015-10-31 22:06:30] irbbqu : wb mm bot
[2015-10-31 22:07:28] irbbqu : Man, feels so strange to trade when Chian and the west is so out of synch.
[2015-10-31 22:15:39] Murch : China wants to go up and US aint having none of that shit.
[2015-10-31 22:19:38] messiaen8844 : china banks are open in sunday ;). no more fiat in USA for the weekend
[2015-10-31 22:27:44] wurstgelee : china has some juices left it seems
[2015-10-31 22:29:16] wurstgelee : finex agrees for now
[2015-10-31 22:29:23] Murch : Me gusta
[2015-10-31 22:29:36] wurstgelee : same ;)
[2015-10-31 22:30:02] Murch : Just loaded my position, I hope this isn't a fake out
[2015-10-31 22:30:13] wurstgelee : same - again :D
[2015-10-31 22:30:27] Murch : Hahaha :P
[2015-10-31 22:32:47] Murch : Im scared, got out :(
[2015-10-31 22:33:15] wurstgelee : rofl
[2015-10-31 22:33:16] wurstgelee : same
[2015-10-31 22:33:21] wurstgelee : :D :D :D :D
[2015-10-31 22:33:36] irbbqu : Yea, this spread and crazy china ponzipumper has me scared witless
[2015-10-31 22:33:37] Murch : Oh well I'll look for another entry
[2015-10-31 22:34:33] wurstgelee : looks like fakeout now
[2015-10-31 22:35:39] Murch : Hmm might not be though
[2015-10-31 22:36:18] wurstgelee : china go home, youre drunk
[2015-10-31 22:37:47] wurstgelee : i dont know how to work with this. oO
[2015-10-31 22:38:11] Murch : Yeah I don't know wtf China is trying to do.
[2015-10-31 22:39:36] wurstgelee : pump&dump at the same time it seems
[2015-10-31 22:41:28] sleger : if all the people in the trollbox think that the price is going down, I guess it's perfect time to buy
[2015-10-31 22:41:52] wurstgelee : no, i dont know what to think currently
[2015-10-31 22:41:54] wurstgelee : ;)
[2015-10-31 22:42:10] Murch : That's a terribly vague strategy lol
[2015-10-31 22:42:18] wurstgelee : haha
[2015-10-31 22:45:18] Murch : I'll just go with a smaller long position I guess.
[2015-10-31 22:45:56] wurstgelee : mh. if i had to chose one, i would agree
[2015-10-31 22:46:11] MrTecc : don't you see the clear uptrend in the 24h?
[2015-10-31 22:46:13] MrTecc : :D
[2015-10-31 22:46:25] wurstgelee : lol ;)
[2015-10-31 22:46:39] MrTecc : just switch to 1 minute timeframes
[2015-10-31 22:46:42] MrTecc : then you see it
[2015-10-31 22:46:43] MrTecc : :D
[2015-10-31 22:46:59] Murch : Yeah It's just that generally in the past month it's broken upward on a much more urgent schedule.
[2015-10-31 22:47:18] Murch : Not noodled around for a while like this.
[2015-10-31 22:47:21] wurstgelee : 1w chart is saying up even more
[2015-10-31 22:47:24] wurstgelee : ;)
[2015-10-31 22:47:40] MrTecc : dont know, never seen it before
[2015-10-31 22:47:41] MrTecc : :D
[2015-10-31 22:47:56] Murch : But yeah long term is definitely raging hardcore right now.
[2015-10-31 22:48:11] wurstgelee : first red candle on the 1d chart for over a week tho
[2015-10-31 22:49:15] Murch : Bitfinex needs to wake the fuck up though. $30 spread is not cool.
[2015-10-31 22:50:33] wurstgelee : imo it should go near china range, not the other way round
[2015-10-31 22:50:37] wurstgelee : ;)
[2015-10-31 22:50:49] Murch : Yeah that would be nice haha
[2015-10-31 22:51:31] Murch : Think I'll look for a lower entry again.
[2015-10-31 22:53:05] wurstgelee : at least one guy here thinks we're going up. buying those 317.77 ;)
[2015-10-31 22:53:10] Murch : I think I'll try later though, this price action doesn't make me confident either direction.
[2015-10-31 22:54:08] wurstgelee : saying i don't know whats next would be an understatement
[2015-10-31 22:58:06] MrTecc : i think i know, too
[2015-10-31 22:58:48] MrTecc : I hope I'm right;)
[2015-10-31 22:59:50] MrTecc : but its pretty obvious
[2015-10-31 22:59:52] Murch : I want to say down for the next short period (1-3 days) followed by up a looot but I don't have the balls to short too much right now.
[2015-10-31 23:01:49] wurstgelee : lets see if this is a dump or not....
[2015-10-31 23:04:46] Murch : I also feel like China needs to dump a lot more for the sake of realigning the exchanges.
[2015-10-31 23:06:14] wurstgelee : it simply refuses to do so currently :/
[2015-10-31 23:06:53] Murch : China is that kid.
[2015-10-31 23:07:10] wurstgelee : :D
[2015-10-31 23:11:51] wurstgelee : seriously, fuck u huobi & okc. from the depth of my heart.
[2015-10-31 23:11:55] wurstgelee : =)
[2015-10-31 23:15:20] Murch : Hmm I think China's finally gonna get shat on soon.
[2015-10-31 23:16:40] wurstgelee : those ups get weaker and weaker
[2015-10-31 23:16:53] wurstgelee : also the spread has to correct itself....
[2015-10-31 23:17:34] Murch : Yep exactly.
[2015-10-31 23:18:01] Murch : If it were gonna continue to go up it should have done so by now.
[2015-10-31 23:19:15] wurstgelee : unless china decides not to follow logic.
[2015-10-31 23:19:33] sleger : maybe you dont have right chinese logic
[2015-10-31 23:19:54] wurstgelee : that may very well be the problem here
[2015-11-01 00:53:20] kogroken : Btw, looks like the Filled column in the fills tab in the advanced view says an order is filled, but in reality the order is still open and only partially filled.
[2015-11-01 00:54:04] kogroken : Is it some bug, or do I just need to do a hard reload or something?
[2015-11-01 02:20:37] BitMEX_Wally : kogroken: The 'Fills' tab only includes completely filled orders, so PartiallyFilled orders will not appear there. They are still open and appear under 'Active Orders'
[2015-11-01 02:22:17] BitMEX_Wally : You can see all the individual fills (i.e trades) here: https://www.bitmex.com/app/tradeHistory
[2015-11-01 03:53:31] mitior : where to generate api keys?
[2015-11-01 04:05:38] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.bitmex.com/app/apiKeys
[2015-11-01 04:06:04] BitMEX_Wally : You can use the API to generate API keys
[2015-11-01 04:06:16] BitMEX_Wally : So use the API Explorer if you want a GUI
[2015-11-01 04:09:47] mitior : You happen to have any example python scripts using ws?
[2015-11-01 04:13:35] BitMEX_Wally : mitior: Sure, check out our sample market making bot: https://github.com/BitMEX/market-maker
[2015-11-01 04:14:41] BitMEX_Wally : See `BitMEXWebsocket()`
[2015-11-01 04:16:31] mitior : Yep, thanks! I've never used ws before
[2015-11-01 05:18:49] eV : wow.. that felt like a bs liquidation...
[2015-11-01 05:24:36] BitMEX_Wally : eV: Liquidations are based on the underlying index price from TradeBlock
[2015-11-01 05:24:38] BitMEX_Wally : https://tradeblock.com/markets/index/
[2015-11-01 05:25:07] BitMEX_Wally : Looks like it dipped below 317
[2015-11-01 10:16:40] macios15 : if im taker 2 times at daily whats minimum spread to go on 0 profit and 0 lose
[2015-11-01 10:17:15] macios15 : 0,1%*price?
[2015-11-01 10:21:46] macios15 : BitMEX_Wally: are you there?
[2015-11-01 10:22:05] BitMEX_Wally : Hello
[2015-11-01 10:22:19] macios15 : BitMEX_Wally: look up at my question
[2015-11-01 10:22:21] BitMEX_Wally : Take fee is 5 bps
[2015-11-01 10:22:37] BitMEX_Wally : So spread of 10 bps
[2015-11-01 10:22:58] macios15 : you mean 0.10
[2015-11-01 10:23:02] macios15 : in price?
[2015-11-01 10:23:05] BitMEX_Wally : 10 bps = 0.10%
[2015-11-01 10:23:06] BitMEX_Wally : Yes
[2015-11-01 10:23:13] macios15 : ok thx
[2015-11-01 11:21:54] habibi : In this special day i would ask you to rise for a minute's silence in remembrance of the margineted(dead) shorts and long.
[2015-11-01 11:23:46] habibi : Thank you all !:)
[2015-11-01 11:50:52] kogroken : $20 spread on H16...
[2015-11-01 11:58:31] mwalshe99 : SETTLEMENT TIME
[2015-11-01 12:03:12] wurstgelee : that index is almost 100% bitfinex and coinbase currently
[2015-11-01 12:03:53] wurstgelee : huobi, woodchipper and stamp are more or less completely ignored
[2015-11-01 12:04:06] wurstgelee : doesnt really make sense imo :/
[2015-11-01 12:06:17] macios15 : wurstgelee: totaly agre
[2015-11-01 12:08:40] wurstgelee : a single buy or sell off ~100-200 btc can force orders into liquidations while thousands of btc anywhere else hardly move the mark price...
[2015-11-01 12:08:51] wurstgelee : *on finex
[2015-11-01 12:10:44] Yumi : the weighting happens in real-time if finex would move a lot it would be recalculated
[2015-11-01 12:10:47] wurstgelee : coinbase has a 7$ spread.....
[2015-11-01 12:11:10] wurstgelee : thats not whats written on the index description page
[2015-11-01 12:11:36] wurstgelee : it says those exchanges who are more off the index price get ignored
[2015-11-01 12:11:48] wurstgelee : since china is way higher, it has barely influence currently
[2015-11-01 12:12:14] wurstgelee : while coinbase - with its non-existant volume and huge spread influences it by a great amount
[2015-11-01 12:13:12] wurstgelee : selling or buying 3(!) btc moves the price of coinbase by $7(1)
[2015-11-01 12:13:16] wurstgelee : (!)
[2015-11-01 12:13:41] wurstgelee : i guess that why those ridiculous mark price jumps happened yesterday ($1.50 back and forth within seconds)
[2015-11-01 12:15:13] Yumi : "selling or buying 3(!) btc moves the price of coinbase by $7(1)" I dont think thats true
[2015-11-01 12:15:13] mwalshe99 : you guys talking about the fair price?
[2015-11-01 12:15:28] wurstgelee : Yumi: $7 spread
[2015-11-01 12:16:15] Yumi : I fail to see it
[2015-11-01 12:16:28] BitMEX_Wally : mwalshe99: The fair price is based on TradeBlock index: https://tradeblock.com/markets/index/
[2015-11-01 12:16:56] wurstgelee : the xbt index page says its weighted according to volume too - but if that really worked, why would coinbase have 30% influence, 60% stamp and ~10 okcoin? the rest is ignored. where is huobi? where is stamp?
[2015-11-01 12:16:59] habibi : Yumi: u sure u looking at proper data from coinbase? maybe u look chart of their buying/selling service, not bitcoin exchange
[2015-11-01 12:17:18] wurstgelee : *not stamp, bitfinex ofc
[2015-11-01 12:18:13] irbbqu : The okc one is the usd version, dont think huobi usd has any volume.
[2015-11-01 12:19:05] irbbqu : Bfx used to be a lot more lqiuid, so it used to make sense that way
[2015-11-01 12:20:13] wurstgelee : used to be is not currently. if u see the weighting nidex chart @ https://tradeblock.com/markets/index/ , the influence of finex has increased
[2015-11-01 12:20:18] wurstgelee : although volume went down
[2015-11-01 12:20:30] wurstgelee : thats the opposite of what should happen imo
[2015-11-01 12:21:32] wurstgelee : most ridiculous thing about that index is, that stamp gets ignored. there's no reason for that imo
[2015-11-01 12:22:09] Yumi : I think xbx index works very well, protects from manipulation and spikes
[2015-11-01 12:22:37] Yumi : its because stamp diverged from index
[2015-11-01 12:23:05] wurstgelee : no, the index diverged from stamp. ;)
[2015-11-01 12:23:46] wurstgelee : coinbase has half the volume of stamp but ~ 100x the influence on the mark price?
[2015-11-01 12:23:59] wurstgelee : that cant be right...
[2015-11-01 12:24:52] wurstgelee : also stamp, finex and coinbase are within a $2 range...
[2015-11-01 12:24:58] wurstgelee : diesnt seem diverged to me
[2015-11-01 12:25:01] wurstgelee : doesnt
[2015-11-01 12:25:13] BitMEX_Wally : http://exchangewar.info/#bitmex
[2015-11-01 12:25:24] BitMEX_Wally : Coinbase and Bistamp have roughly the same volume in the last 24 hour
[2015-11-01 12:26:08] wurstgelee : 27k stamp, <16k coinbase
[2015-11-01 12:26:32] wurstgelee : 16 k coinbase
[2015-11-01 12:26:52] wurstgelee : coinbase ~30% influence on mark price, stamp <1% (?)
[2015-11-01 12:26:56] wurstgelee : does that seem right?
[2015-11-01 12:27:16] wurstgelee : also grats @ #11 :)
[2015-11-01 12:27:57] Yumi : the weighting is not set, it changes all all the time
[2015-11-01 12:28:14] wurstgelee : * stamp &lt; 1%
[2015-11-01 12:28:29] wurstgelee : k, "& lt ;" works ;)
[2015-11-01 12:30:01] Yumi : you are seeing hourly snapshots of weighting, you will see when price gap between stamp and rest reduces it will gain more influence
[2015-11-01 12:30:08] wurstgelee : to finalize my rant, i dont get while that index is not weighted according to volume, at least for the USD-based exchanges (CNY seems to be ignored anyways)
[2015-11-01 12:31:26] wurstgelee : that off-the-index-price weighting makes no sense. if an exchange with big volume moves in any direction, it should drag the index price in the same direction - and not get ignored for moving away
[2015-11-01 12:32:27] BitMEX_Wally : We are thinking about having a future on an XBTCNY index
[2015-11-01 12:32:37] wurstgelee : YAY :D
[2015-11-01 12:32:40] BitMEX_Wally : Would be great for arbing
[2015-11-01 12:33:56] wurstgelee : if u wonder while im pissed about the index price, check the funny jumps of a little earlier than 9pm UTC yesterday ;)
[2015-11-01 12:48:20] mwalshe99 : wow. didn't realise people still used stamp
[2015-11-01 12:59:30] mjmj83 : is there still an insurance fee on the XBT trading?
[2015-11-01 13:03:13] stf28 : mwalshe99: it's still a good way for holding
[2015-11-01 13:04:18] ohmannomma : what is a position with -,-- and i didnt receive any liquidation email?
[2015-11-01 13:04:43] ohmannomma : ah ok, sorry
[2015-11-01 13:33:21] roymalmberg : Bitmex, it says my bitcoin deposit address is not valid?
[2015-11-01 13:35:40] roymalmberg : nevermind :)
[2015-11-01 14:19:22] BitMEX_Wally : mjmj83: No insurance fees
[2015-11-01 14:21:37] wurstgelee : the xbt index is now 60% coinbase ...its geting worse :/
[2015-11-01 14:22:01] wurstgelee : *t
[2015-11-01 14:25:44] laisee : 60% seems wrong, given CB vols?
[2015-11-01 14:26:06] wurstgelee : exactly
[2015-11-01 14:27:51] wurstgelee : stamp is %lt; 10%, finex is &lt; 20%
[2015-11-01 14:27:59] wurstgelee : &lt; ofc
[2015-11-01 14:29:44] BitMEX_Sam : That appears to be the outlier tracking deweighting bitfinex because its price is higher than all others
[2015-11-01 14:30:34] BitMEX_Sam : Explains why stamp is deweighted too, and OKC generally doesn't do much because it's only measuring intl volumes (USD)
[2015-11-01 14:30:39] wurstgelee : yes probably. but it does seem wrong, doesnt it? coinbase basically controlling the index...
[2015-11-01 14:31:14] BitMEX_Sam : Well, it's not "controlling" it, because if it tried to unilaterally move the price (and became an outlier) it would be deweighted
[2015-11-01 14:31:55] wurstgelee : yes, but deweighting happens gradually. i single smaller buy or dump @ coinbase would make the index jump currently
[2015-11-01 14:32:03] wurstgelee : *i=1
[2015-11-01 14:32:39] wurstgelee : $2 move on coinbase = &gt; $1 move of index
[2015-11-01 14:32:40] BitMEX_Sam : From the looks of the weight charts, deweighting can happen very quickly
[2015-11-01 14:33:07] BitMEX_Sam : Issue is, that only shows hourly candles
[2015-11-01 14:33:33] wurstgelee : yes..but index weighting seems fine until yesterday....its that weird for the last 24h
[2015-11-01 14:34:12] wurstgelee : 60% for coinbase just seems wrong... ;)
[2015-11-01 14:34:17] laisee : CB seems to react slower to market (china) than int'l exchanges. Will this make XBT a lagging index?
[2015-11-01 14:34:39] wurstgelee : not necessarily lagging - but currently dependant on coinbase
[2015-11-01 14:35:59] laisee : 60% weight && slow updates for CB could make XBT a 'trailing' index.
[2015-11-01 14:36:00] BitMEX_Sam : So CB has had much higher volume than usual today, and sits right in the middle of the group of 5
[2015-11-01 14:36:07] wurstgelee : whatever the exact reason in the xbx weighting algorythm is - it is not suitable to reflect the current market situation. for obvious reasons i think ;)
[2015-11-01 14:36:16] BitMEX_Sam : So I suppose it's a perfect storm.
[2015-11-01 14:37:00] laisee : yes, guess all indexes are misleading in some way ...
[2015-11-01 14:37:07] wurstgelee : well, i have my doubts. :p the index should weigh volume higher than it currently does imo
[2015-11-01 14:37:44] wurstgelee : i said it earlier, if a big vol exchange moves in one direction, it should drag the index in the same direction. and not get deweighted because of that
[2015-11-01 14:40:36] wurstgelee : or in other words: price variance weighting is too high, volume weighting too low
[2015-11-01 14:43:31] laisee : coinhills shows CB as having 1.18% of daily volume in last 24hrs. China vol is not 100% real, but 1.18 is low.
[2015-11-01 14:44:04] BitMEX_Sam : Yes, but XBX weights the USD market only
[2015-11-01 14:44:47] BitMEX_Sam : Also, China volume is much less than 100% real - whatever your position is on how much of it is wash trading, you must at least divide by 2 as they openly count one trade as two (one buy, one sell)
[2015-11-01 14:45:15] wurstgelee : stamp 26k, finex 36k, coinbase 15k - result: coinbase has 60% index weight
[2015-11-01 14:45:19] wurstgelee : that IS wrong :)
[2015-11-01 14:47:34] j8 : china double counts futures, not spot. it's fake from wash trading not double counting
[2015-11-01 14:48:15] wurstgelee : CNY-based exchanges are not reflected in xbx, that doesnt matter
[2015-11-01 14:48:18] BitMEX_Sam : Is it only futures? I thought they admitted to double-counting both
[2015-11-01 14:48:41] j8 : well, for spot the volumes coming through the trade history match what was on the orderbook
[2015-11-01 14:49:01] j8 : if i put a bid for 1.2345678 btc, that's the number you'll see
[2015-11-01 14:49:18] j8 : on futures every trade coming through the trade history is an even number of contracts
[2015-11-01 14:49:42] BitMEX_Sam : j8: Nice to know, thanks.
[2015-11-01 14:49:48] wurstgelee : yep, indeed
[2015-11-01 14:50:20] BitMEX_Sam : I am interesting in why itBit is so deweighted
[2015-11-01 14:50:27] BitMEX_Sam : It must be delivering stale ticks
[2015-11-01 14:50:39] wurstgelee : probably
[2015-11-01 14:51:25] wurstgelee : i dont see another obvious reason
[2015-11-01 14:51:32] BitMEX_Sam : Appears DST has screwed up the chart a bit too
[2015-11-01 14:51:51] wurstgelee : DST?
[2015-11-01 14:51:53] BitMEX_Sam : Should have been a tick 51 minutes ago but the last I see is an hour 51
[2015-11-01 14:51:59] wurstgelee : ah, delivering stale ticks
[2015-11-01 14:52:00] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah USA daylight savings time
[2015-11-01 14:52:04] wurstgelee : oh k
[2015-11-01 14:52:05] wurstgelee : :D
[2015-11-01 14:52:29] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah. I'm not a big fan of it (especially as a programmer) but hey, free hour
[2015-11-01 14:52:31] wurstgelee : that might be the reason for ibit deweighting
[2015-11-01 14:52:49] BitMEX_Sam : I don't think so, it's been going on for a while
[2015-11-01 14:53:00] BitMEX_Sam : Looks like about a day and a half
[2015-11-01 14:53:13] wurstgelee : mh, right. then i have no clue
[2015-11-01 14:53:25] wurstgelee : doesnt make the weighting look "more right" :/
[2015-11-01 14:53:40] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah. I'm going to see if I can get more transparency from them on it
[2015-11-01 14:54:18] wurstgelee : price variance weighting just seems way to strong
[2015-11-01 14:54:18] BitMEX_Sam : Nothing is perfect, clearly, but I still maintain this is far better than a single exchange - when we were on finex only, the flash crash caused some seriously insane trading
[2015-11-01 14:54:30] wurstgelee : ofc it is better
[2015-11-01 14:54:37] j8 : i agree that the price variance deweighting is pretty aggressive.
[2015-11-01 14:55:22] BitMEX_Sam : If it isn't able to back off quickly when an exchange moves, I'd agree - otherwise I would posit that it is probably less of a problem than it seems because a single exchange would get deweighted as it attempts to move the index
[2015-11-01 14:55:26] wurstgelee : it should be nerfed for the favor of volume weighting ;)
[2015-11-01 14:55:53] wurstgelee : yes...but if an echange has a high volume, it should be able to move the index imo
[2015-11-01 14:56:07] BitMEX_Sam : That's a tough question isn't it
[2015-11-01 14:56:11] wurstgelee : yes ;)
[2015-11-01 14:56:11] BitMEX_Sam : I mean, finex had huge volume in the flash crash
[2015-11-01 14:56:14] j8 : high volume over what timeframe?
[2015-11-01 14:56:24] BitMEX_Sam : But I would argue it should have been delisted entirely from the index during the crash
[2015-11-01 14:57:02] wurstgelee : maybe use a time weighted price ove a few minutes for each exchange. that way the influence of a flash crash would be reduced
[2015-11-01 14:57:27] BitMEX_Sam : Let me see if we have data from that time, I know we already had our listeners set up for XBX when the crash happened
[2015-11-01 14:57:30] wurstgelee : would make the index more stable
[2015-11-01 14:59:41] j8 : it's intentionally an instantaneous index though.
[2015-11-01 14:59:59] j8 : otherwise it would lag behind the market
[2015-11-01 15:00:07] wurstgelee : good point
[2015-11-01 15:00:59] j8 : time averaged volume makes sense for weighting though.
[2015-11-01 15:01:06] wurstgelee : yes
[2015-11-01 15:01:37] wurstgelee : but most important: reduce price variance deweighting =)
[2015-11-01 15:02:50] AudibleScience : BitMEX_Sam: is there a way for me to see the total deposits and trade history so far?
[2015-11-01 15:03:11] BitMEX_Sam : AudibleScience: Yeah, see the Wallet and Trade History pages in the account section
[2015-11-01 15:03:29] BitMEX_Sam : By the way, been meaning to get back to you on your email, just been busy - will reply soon
[2015-11-01 15:04:06] AudibleScience : BitMEX_Sam: hey no problem man! it's the weekend and all!
[2015-11-01 15:07:06] BitMEX_Sam : Here is some longer-term XBX data if any of you are interested: https://securesha.re?#u=8c212fe1c9ed2251036591d2ede0a4a6.bin&p=qtyLV6M-FS3IStMgspmdBDG-dIl4KviIGFyhMj-4OgY
[2015-11-01 15:07:18] BitMEX_Sam : Sorry, you'll have to drag-select the url, looks like our parser needs a tweak
[2015-11-01 15:07:38] wurstgelee : file not found :/
[2015-11-01 15:07:47] wurstgelee : ah k
[2015-11-01 15:08:54] wurstgelee : it seems i'm failing in making that work oO
[2015-11-01 15:09:37] BitMEX_Sam : http://bit.ly/1ivX7UL
[2015-11-01 15:09:51] wurstgelee : thanks :)
[2015-11-01 15:10:50] AudibleScience : BitMEX_Sam: the trade history only goes back to 2015-10-31 06:23:49... is there a way for me to see it all?
[2015-11-01 15:11:49] BitMEX_Sam : AudibleScience: I really need to paginate that view, I'll add it to the top of my list - in the meantime you can get it from https://www.bitmex.com/api/explorer/#!/Execution/Execution_getTradeHistory
[2015-11-01 15:14:52] AudibleScience : does the csv go back to the start?
[2015-11-01 15:16:34] BitMEX_Sam : Of when we measured it, yes, 5 days before the bfx crash
[2015-11-01 15:16:41] BitMEX_Sam : Aug 13
[2015-11-01 15:18:39] zanza : a little morning `dump` ?
[2015-11-01 15:19:09] wurstgelee : yay. xbx index sems to normalize a little. influence of coinbase greatly reduced in the favor of coinbase ;)
[2015-11-01 15:19:37] wurstgelee : in the favor of stamp ofc
[2015-11-01 15:19:59] wurstgelee : lol also wrong
[2015-11-01 15:20:02] wurstgelee : finex it is
[2015-11-01 15:20:05] wurstgelee : oO
[2015-11-01 15:23:10] BitMEX_Sam : So, I took a look at some of the data here
[2015-11-01 15:23:36] BitMEX_Sam : http://bit.ly/1GUSf77
[2015-11-01 15:23:49] BitMEX_Sam : Shows how quickly the weighting can change
[2015-11-01 15:27:01] BitMEX_Sam : Look at 14:30:35 - bitfinex price moved within the other prices and consequently weighting went way up
[2015-11-01 15:32:38] wurstgelee : yes, variance weighting works. it's just to strong imo :)
[2015-11-01 16:18:07] wurstgelee : weird index behaviour. finex moves up, index follows shortly. than quickly goes back to coinbase levels - because finex is deweigthed. then finex goes a bit down, index goes up......
[2015-11-01 16:18:19] wurstgelee : *then
[2015-11-01 16:18:29] wurstgelee : *other typos
[2015-11-01 17:43:37] wurstgelee : weird fact: the index is higher than every exchange used for the index ;)
[2015-11-01 17:43:49] j8 : wurstgelee: i was about to say the same thing
[2015-11-01 17:44:11] wurstgelee : :)
[2015-11-01 17:44:16] j8 : they have overcomplicated things i think
[2015-11-01 17:44:26] wurstgelee : that is not supposed to happen imo
[2015-11-01 17:45:24] j8 : well no, it would have to be a negative weight, or ignoring the most recent data
[2015-11-01 17:46:13] wurstgelee : yep. especially since its designed to resemble the mose current prices
[2015-11-01 17:48:35] SnackyCoins : the index lags slightly and we are moving down a bit. the opposite can happen going up
[2015-11-01 17:49:28] wurstgelee : i thought its not supposed to lag?
[2015-11-01 17:49:54] j8 : its not
[2015-11-01 17:50:01] SnackyCoins : I hadn't heard that?
[2015-11-01 17:50:09] SnackyCoins : it only updates every minute anyway
[2015-11-01 17:50:20] wurstgelee : TradeBlock’s XBX Index represents a real-time, USD-equivalent spot rate for bitcoin.
[2015-11-01 17:50:22] wurstgelee : real time
[2015-11-01 17:50:23] SnackyCoins : so you have a full minute's worth of data to somehow average
[2015-11-01 17:50:39] wurstgelee : but the index was higher than every exchange for at least 3 ticks
[2015-11-01 17:50:51] j8 : bitmex reports XBX once per minute, XBX updates once per second i think
[2015-11-01 17:51:01] SnackyCoins : ah didn't know that j8
[2015-11-01 17:51:04] wurstgelee : i checked on the xbx-page :)
[2015-11-01 17:51:15] wurstgelee : same as j8 i think
[2015-11-01 17:51:47] j8 : SnackyCoins: https://tradeblock.com/markets/index if you haven't seen it
[2015-11-01 17:52:45] SnackyCoins : it's not higher than bitfinex?
[2015-11-01 17:53:04] j8 : for a couple minutes it was higher than all 5
[2015-11-01 17:53:30] wurstgelee : what j8 says
[2015-11-01 17:53:35] wurstgelee : :)
[2015-11-01 17:53:35] SnackyCoins : interesting
[2015-11-01 17:53:50] wurstgelee : "interesting"...yes....and plain wrong
[2015-11-01 17:53:54] wurstgelee : =)
[2015-11-01 17:54:46] j8 : the real issue is, it's a black box.. we can only guess why
[2015-11-01 17:55:11] SnackyCoins : why not publish the algos, is your point
[2015-11-01 17:55:16] SnackyCoins : and a good one
[2015-11-01 17:55:26] wurstgelee : but even without not knowing the black box contents - this cant happen if its supposed to be a real-time index
[2015-11-01 17:55:32] wurstgelee : *-not
[2015-11-01 17:55:51] SnackyCoins : how many lines of code could they possibly have to protect, in an averaging mechanism xD
[2015-11-01 17:55:57] j8 : they have made it quite complicated, and there are certainly ways it could happen
[2015-11-01 17:57:04] wurstgelee : if it happens, their algo is broken imo
[2015-11-01 17:57:39] wurstgelee : unless they have some other problems, something lagging for some reason....but this isnt supposed to happen either
[2015-11-01 17:58:27] wurstgelee : there is simply no way an real-time averaging algo is supposed to be higher than all input v
[2015-11-01 17:58:33] wurstgelee : values
[2015-11-01 17:59:04] j8 : they do all kinds of stuff besides averaging though.
[2015-11-01 17:59:09] wurstgelee : on a sidenote, more dumping =)
[2015-11-01 18:00:01] wurstgelee : j8: probably. but an average has to be withing the range of the highes and the lowest input
[2015-11-01 18:00:06] wurstgelee : simple as that
[2015-11-01 18:00:11] wurstgelee : *t
[2015-11-01 18:00:24] j8 : no guarantee that the last price is the input
[2015-11-01 18:00:31] j8 : maybe they filter tiny trades
[2015-11-01 18:00:36] wurstgelee : it has to be if its realtime =)
[2015-11-01 18:01:02] wurstgelee : if the do, they shouldnt show the values on the xbx page
[2015-11-01 18:01:20] wurstgelee : not if they dont use them
[2015-11-01 18:05:26] mtourig3 : can someone explain isolate margin?
[2015-11-01 18:05:41] BitMEX_Sam : mtourig3: Sure -
[2015-11-01 18:05:54] BitMEX_Sam : By default, any leveraged position you enter draws upon your entire account balance in case of losses.
[2015-11-01 18:06:28] BitMEX_Sam : When you isolate, the system puts the minimum amount of equity into the position to keep it open. Once that runs out, the position is liquidated.
[2015-11-01 18:06:45] BitMEX_Sam : Essentially, isolating limits your losses, protecting the rest of the equity in your account, but makes you more susceptible to liquidation.
[2015-11-01 18:14:40] wurstgelee : xbx index going down because stamp is now within the other exchanges, gets weigthed higher...and drags the index down
[2015-11-01 18:15:20] wurstgelee : wtf
[2015-11-01 18:15:31] wurstgelee : did it just jump by $2?
[2015-11-01 18:15:31] irbbqu : Yea, I saw that too.
[2015-11-01 18:15:53] wurstgelee : .....
[2015-11-01 18:16:06] wurstgelee : wtf just happened?
[2015-11-01 18:16:15] irbbqu : xbx index went to 1
[2015-11-01 18:16:18] irbbqu : 314
[2015-11-01 18:16:24] irbbqu : So 1 usd spike
[2015-11-01 18:16:24] mtourig3 : BitMEX_Sam: thanks!
[2015-11-01 18:16:52] irbbqu : Coinbase dump probably
[2015-11-01 18:17:41] wurstgelee : this is not funny :|
[2015-11-01 18:18:28] j8 : yeah, bitfinex and bitstamp are both outliers, until coinbase is close to one of them
[2015-11-01 18:18:52] wurstgelee : yep
[2015-11-01 18:19:38] j8 : which happened with a 30 coin dump just now
[2015-11-01 18:20:11] wurstgelee : thats what i was saying earlier. xbx can easily be manipulated with a small amount of coins
[2015-11-01 18:20:33] wurstgelee : effecitvely resulting in margin calls here
[2015-11-01 18:21:20] wurstgelee : whach the index go south as a small sell on coinbase happened ;)
[2015-11-01 18:21:24] wurstgelee : *whatch
[2015-11-01 18:22:00] wurstgelee : tadaaah :)
[2015-11-01 18:22:16] wurstgelee : *watch btw
[2015-11-01 18:24:51] wurstgelee : and again
[2015-11-01 18:25:39] lockhedge : working on the solution ;) https://robotfinance.org/api/bix_alpha/ BIX worked quite well for my experimental mm bot (40% return) in the last 4 weeks.
[2015-11-01 18:26:40] wurstgelee : that sounds promising
[2015-11-01 18:35:44] wurstgelee : coinbase has a 6$ spread. oO
[2015-11-01 18:36:44] BitMEX_Sam : Did it? I only see 0.01c
[2015-11-01 18:36:48] BitMEX_Sam : Rather, $0.01
[2015-11-01 18:37:03] wurstgelee : oh, my bad
[2015-11-01 18:37:06] wurstgelee : no, it doesnt
[2015-11-01 18:37:08] wurstgelee : all good =)
[2015-11-01 18:43:20] Yumi : where from you getting your crazy spreads, $7 before now $6?
[2015-11-01 18:45:18] wurstgelee : from a fuckup on my side. apparently my browser froze
[2015-11-01 18:48:43] wurstgelee : stamp simply ignores what happens elsewhere these days. ;)
[2015-11-01 18:55:37] wurstgelee : it happened again btw. xbx index higher than all 5 exchangesa
[2015-11-01 18:55:40] wurstgelee : *-a
[2015-11-01 19:14:20] Yumi : did MM quit H16 for good?
[2015-11-01 20:03:47] wurstgelee : dunno
[2015-11-01 20:53:59] bondi : err...does getting the deposit address initially take long or is it just me?
[2015-11-01 20:54:32] BitMEX_Sam : Sometimes it can take a moment, did it show up @bondi?
[2015-11-01 20:55:02] bondi : @BitMEX_Sam: Not yet...
[2015-11-01 20:55:36] BitMEX_Sam : Hmm. Let me look into it. Try a refresh?
[2015-11-01 20:55:53] bondi : will do @BitMEX_Sam
[2015-11-01 20:56:11] BitMEX_Sam : Ah. I see the issue. You need to set a country in your account page
[2015-11-01 20:56:51] bondi : BitMEX_Sam: ah..will do..cheers!
[2015-11-01 21:49:13] mwalshe99 : orderbook is thin without the bot
[2015-11-01 21:50:36] sleger : i guess its losing money ?
[2015-11-01 21:50:58] mwalshe99 : ye probably
[2015-11-01 21:51:14] mwalshe99 : bots like that get killed during big volatility
[2015-11-01 21:51:34] mwalshe99 : its a shame though the liquidity was nice
[2015-11-01 21:53:48] wurstgelee : china smashed 2200, btc remembered it's a bull marked.
[2015-11-01 21:53:50] wurstgelee : ;)
[2015-11-01 21:53:55] wurstgelee : market ofc
[2015-11-01 21:55:05] mwalshe99 : owww, theres my bot back
[2015-11-01 21:55:15] wurstgelee : YAY :D
[2015-11-01 21:58:36] macios15 : china bulls are going to start pump soon
[2015-11-01 22:02:43] messiaen8844 : chinca has awaken l
[2015-11-01 22:02:46] messiaen8844 : c
[2015-11-01 22:02:52] wurstgelee : yep
[2015-11-01 22:04:35] messiaen8844 : ETH up as
[2015-11-01 22:04:45] messiaen8844 : w
[2015-11-01 22:05:06] messiaen8844 : strange, chat is cutting up my words
[2015-11-01 22:05:27] mwalshe99 : :( first liquidation of the dya
[2015-11-01 22:05:28] mwalshe99 : damn china
[2015-11-01 22:05:50] BitMEX_Sam : messiaen8844: How is it cutting them up?
[2015-11-01 22:06:03] messiaen8844 : tes
[2015-11-01 22:06:04] messiaen8844 : tes
[2015-11-01 22:06:18] messiaen8844 : hmm,, it seems if I type it fast enought just half of the word appears
[2015-11-01 22:06:55] BitMEX_Sam : Ah, you might be seeing some latency if you've kept the tab open for a long time. I've squashed some memory leaks today - you'll get the new code if you just refresh
[2015-11-01 22:07:00] messiaen8844 : it shows up on my console, but if I press enter immediately (like, in a split of a second) it doesn't show up entirely