This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2015-10-25 13:36:49] BitMEX_Wally : If you switch to the Advanced dashboard there is a Margin chart
[2015-10-25 14:02:52] MystPhysX : What happened to the daily orderbook?
[2015-10-25 14:04:36] MystPhysX : Never mind it's back to somewhat normal
[2015-10-25 14:07:14] jung1 : nice pump on huobi
[2015-10-25 14:29:06] nickhnt : the site is a little slow or is it just me?
[2015-10-25 14:29:44] SnackyCoins : i thought it was just me but yeah a bit laggy
[2015-10-25 14:29:54] MystPhysX : It appears to be fine for me
[2015-10-25 14:30:32] nickhnt : I put an buy order and it just appeared in the orderbook 10 seconds later
[2015-10-25 14:31:21] MystPhysX : Oh yeah, the index is lagging
[2015-10-25 14:32:16] MystPhysX : Only by like 3 seconds for me though
[2015-10-25 14:34:52] BitMEX_Sam : We're not seeing any unusual latency
[2015-10-25 14:37:19] nickhnt : Now it normalized, but a few minutes ago was laggin a bit
[2015-10-25 14:37:57] SnackyCoins : time to put on the fedora
[2015-10-25 14:38:04] SnackyCoins : i'm feeling euphoric
[2015-10-25 15:16:02] someone : Is it possible to change the isolated margin ratio on XBT24H from 100x to a different value, like 50x or 25x?
[2015-10-25 15:32:23] j8 : someone: being able to add margin to an isolated position is a highly requested feature. coming soon, it fact you can do it using the API
[2015-10-25 15:41:14] someone : j8: I'd prefer to set an isolated margin ratio default by contract type and/or adjust it when placing an order.
[2015-10-25 15:41:39] someone : But that's probably part of what Bitmex is working on. Thanks for the info.
[2015-10-25 15:42:43] j8 : yeah there's a few things like that which would simplify trading. things change pretty fast around here
[2015-10-25 15:46:05] cengel : j8, when did it push to API?
[2015-10-25 15:46:47] j8 : last week or two i think. check here https://www.bitmex.com/api/explorer/#!/Position/Position_transferIsolatedMargin
[2015-10-25 15:52:06] j8 : i tested it out using the API explorer. works as expected
[2015-10-25 15:55:21] j8 : although if you have a losing position and you add margin, you might not be able to remove the same amount.. it'll hold the initial margin requirement at the current mark price. which makes sense
[2015-10-25 16:30:17] jung1 : do you think it will be any correction when we hit 300?
[2015-10-25 16:37:03] aethlios : 320 a strong resistance at spot. consolidate 300-340 for a month will be great.
[2015-10-25 19:02:44] jung1 : volumen is lower and lower
[2015-10-25 19:06:35] jung1 : I think its short time
[2015-10-25 19:29:49] macios15 : jung1: jea but bid look still strong
[2015-10-25 19:31:16] jung1 : btw It was quite good decision to open position on XBTH16 at $320
[2015-10-25 19:32:05] jung1 : and I think still under $400 is good
[2015-10-25 20:02:51] hashman : LAG
[2015-10-25 20:04:42] j8 : try refreshing, it's probably your browser not the trading engine
[2015-10-25 20:10:35] hashman : the spread on 24hr
[2015-10-25 20:10:40] hashman : yeah it was my browser
[2015-10-25 20:11:35] FoCheezyBreezy : Glorious dump! Haha!
[2015-10-25 20:11:47] FoCheezyBreezy : God i love trading :D
[2015-10-25 20:16:33] macios15 : jep
[2015-10-25 20:16:37] macios15 : +100%
[2015-10-25 20:30:44] OriginalWolf : When should I buy and when should I sell?
[2015-10-25 20:38:36] FoCheezyBreezy : buy when you think the price will go up. sell when you think the price will go down
[2015-10-25 20:43:22] OriginalWolf : how can you estimate if its gonna go up or down?
[2015-10-25 20:43:24] OriginalWolf : Just chance or what?
[2015-10-25 20:44:04] belcher : thats the million dollar question originalwolf
[2015-10-25 20:46:15] OriginalWolf : Laws in the US make this impossible?
[2015-10-25 20:46:51] wurstgelee : make what impossible?
[2015-10-25 20:47:22] OriginalWolf : It says I can't deposit from the us
[2015-10-25 20:48:16] wurstgelee : thats a topic i know nothing about, im not from the us
[2015-10-25 20:48:28] OriginalWolf : What country does work?
[2015-10-25 20:48:48] j8 : they recently stopped accepting US customers.
[2015-10-25 20:51:35] belcher : originalwolf download the tor browser and go to their .onion domain
[2015-10-25 20:51:40] belcher : or use a vpn
[2015-10-25 20:51:51] belcher : just dont put bitmex in a position that they know they're breaking the law and you'll probably be fine
[2015-10-25 20:52:41] belcher : *awkward silence* :)
[2015-10-25 20:53:52] Original_Wolf : Okay, but which countries are usable?
[2015-10-25 20:54:10] j8 : only the US is blocked at the moment
[2015-10-25 20:54:35] j8 : beware that this is in the Terms of Service:
[2015-10-25 20:54:44] j8 : 1.4 By registering as a Member you represent and warrant:
[2015-10-25 20:54:45] j8 : ...
[2015-10-25 20:54:51] j8 : (i) that you are not a resident of the United States of America or any other jurisdiction where the services offered by BitMEX are restricted. If it is determined that you have given false representation as to your place of residence, BitMEX reserves the right to close your account immediately and liquidate any open positions at the prevailing market price.
[2015-10-25 20:55:52] belcher : they're just protecting themselves
[2015-10-25 20:56:08] Original_Wolf : Well I mean, I live in Canada but I use a US VPN
[2015-10-25 20:56:26] Original_Wolf : So I usually put the US down as my country
[2015-10-25 20:56:36] belcher : like those "stress test" services you can use to ddos people, with special features for "testing home routers" ;)
[2015-10-25 20:57:05] btc_0193 : what about those from US who deposited before it was explicit
[2015-10-25 20:57:19] Original_Wolf : ^
[2015-10-25 20:57:46] btc_0193 : ive heard bitmex still allows withdrawals but not deposits for us residents. would be nice to hear a confirmation from the bitmex team
[2015-10-25 20:58:26] BitMEX_Arthur : Everyone is able to withdraw
[2015-10-25 20:59:34] btc_0193 : as a us resident who deposited before the explicit 'ban', is there any issues with me continuing to trade with the balance i have in my account or should i stop and withdrawal immediately.
[2015-10-25 21:04:25] BitMEX_Arthur : Check your email
[2015-10-25 21:05:47] belcher : :\
[2015-10-25 21:13:55] FoCheezyBreezy : Arthur, do you think we could get an arrow pointing up or down next to the fair price too, so we can see which direction it's headed at a glance?
[2015-10-25 21:20:27] escalicha : Lol liquidity just fucking all the traders on bitmex
[2015-10-25 21:20:39] escalicha : just F*uuking
[2015-10-25 21:22:24] Yumi : you can see liquidations
[2015-10-25 21:23:59] escalicha : 181611 is a margin call liquidation?
[2015-10-25 21:26:17] escalicha : at 288.13 usd
[2015-10-25 21:27:12] j8 : yes DPE has begun
[2015-10-25 21:27:56] j8 : bam
[2015-10-25 21:28:05] j8 : cleared
[2015-10-25 21:28:20] jung1 : 1700 today?
[2015-10-25 21:29:19] macios15 : wtf daily
[2015-10-25 21:33:57] SnackyCoins : Best way to isolate margin on 100x 24h: Don't
[2015-10-25 21:37:56] j8 : SnackyCoins: it's true, liquidated after -0.5% move, double your money after +1.0% move... that's bad odds
[2015-10-25 21:38:01] macios15 : that was 517k dolars if im right?
[2015-10-25 21:39:34] j8 : more like $150k
[2015-10-25 21:39:54] SnackyCoins : cross margin ftw
[2015-10-25 21:41:04] j8 : soon we will be able to add isolate with lower leverage. i did it today actually using the API
[2015-10-25 21:41:28] macios15 : does daily 200x now?
[2015-10-25 21:42:03] j8 : no 100x
[2015-10-25 21:42:18] BitMEX_Arthur : 100x is initial margin, 200x is when you get liquidated
[2015-10-25 21:42:34] macios15 : ok, soo that was 517k dolars or 1800 btc
[2015-10-25 21:43:03] macios15 : puff
[2015-10-25 21:43:16] j8 : i get 523 btc
[2015-10-25 21:43:35] j8 : notional
[2015-10-25 21:43:54] j8 : using the order controls
[2015-10-25 21:44:33] macios15 : http://scr.hu/3e9p/a5moh
[2015-10-25 21:45:05] Yumi : its a number of contracts
[2015-10-25 21:46:03] Yumi : each contract is worth price * 0.00001
[2015-10-25 21:46:26] j8 : only 5 btc margin if it was 100x
[2015-10-25 21:46:38] j8 : no big deal.
[2015-10-25 21:47:15] Yumi : isnt it cool you can buy 500 btc worth while only having 5
[2015-10-25 21:48:00] wykop.pl : where can I find chart for reference index?
[2015-10-25 21:48:21] j8 : now consider that you could hold a position worth more bitcoins than will ever exist
[2015-10-25 21:48:35] btc_0193 : arthur, check your email
[2015-10-25 21:53:52] SnackyCoins : wow, XBTV15 had some fomo
[2015-10-25 21:55:05] j8 : it was only like 1 contract up there
[2015-10-25 21:55:27] j8 : sorry 100 contracts at 330
[2015-10-25 21:56:57] anduck : how to change deposit address?
[2015-10-25 21:57:12] j8 : i did see a bid for 100k contracts go up around 305 though
[2015-10-25 23:05:01] zanza : j8 its 0 sum though
[2015-10-25 23:05:34] j8 : what are you referring to?
[2015-10-25 23:05:44] nickhnt : At this point this is just a Gamble, the market can go up or down with a few btcs
[2015-10-25 23:09:35] j8 : have to look at the bigger picture when it starts moving like this. short term trades are a gamble
[2015-10-25 23:12:01] j8 : the risk vs reward of 100x trading is pretty bad in my opinion.
[2015-10-25 23:13:13] jung1 : we can go back to 1930
[2015-10-25 23:13:51] jung1 : or 1840
[2015-10-25 23:14:30] macios15 : yes, probably this rise is not end jet
[2015-10-25 23:15:21] jung1 : but buy support is pretty weak on huobi
[2015-10-25 23:16:07] macios15 : only for now
[2015-10-25 23:17:22] jung1 : I will be not mad if we will see 230$ in this year again
[2015-10-25 23:20:04] macios15 : we need to in order to make some bubble
[2015-10-25 23:20:20] macios15 : this 230 swing down would be bear trap
[2015-10-25 23:21:00] macios15 : and then some halving bubble, for now we are like april 2013
[2015-10-25 23:23:29] macios15 : that teory could vindicate that big huobi volume, in order to buy some big amount at good price
[2015-10-25 23:28:18] jung1 : agree
[2015-10-25 23:28:31] jung1 : trzeba sie zbroić
[2015-10-25 23:33:04] macios15 : co powiesz na 6=\-12h taka duza glowe z ramionami
[2015-10-25 23:33:10] macios15 : idealnie wychodzi koniec na 230$
[2015-10-25 23:33:57] macios15 : albo przynajmniej korekta na 1700 cny
[2015-10-25 23:35:29] jung1 : myślę, że 1800 jest bardzo realne w ciągu nasępnych dni
[2015-10-25 23:35:52] jung1 : a stamtąd do 1700 już blisko
[2015-10-25 23:36:06] macios15 : mozliwe ze to byl ostatni tydzien wzrostów, bo 1w sie konczy swieca
[2015-10-25 23:36:13] jung1 : obstawiam na jeszcze jedną korekte w tym roku do $240-250
[2015-10-25 23:36:27] jung1 : a w '16 wracamy na byka
[2015-10-25 23:37:07] macios15 : tez tak stawiam
[2015-10-25 23:37:19] jung1 : poczekam jak spadniemy i wchodze chyba grubiej w XBTH16
[2015-10-25 23:37:24] jung1 : 5 miesięcy na x25
[2015-10-25 23:37:31] macios15 : ale bardziej dead cat bounce niz 1000$
[2015-10-25 23:37:43] macios15 : bo przy tym lewarze co teraz jest nikt tyle nie pompuje
[2015-10-25 23:38:37] jung1 : przyszły rok będzie przełomowy dla bitka. banki, rządy i duże korpo wchodzą + halvening to będzie miało duży wpływ na cenę
[2015-10-25 23:38:51] jung1 : z drugiej strony powstaje dużo nowych projektów
[2015-10-25 23:39:01] jung1 : i nie wiadomo który sie przyjmie
[2015-10-25 23:39:23] macios15 : tak tylko nie wiadomo jak mocno mt gox namieszał i jak mocno sztucznie to napompował
[2015-10-25 23:39:54] macios15 : wirtualnymi bitkami
[2015-10-25 23:42:57] macios15 : oj chyba lecimy nizej
[2015-10-25 23:43:05] macios15 : bedzie grubo za moment
[2015-10-25 23:43:18] jung1 : nie mam nic przeciwko. mam shorta otwartego na 298 cały czas
[2015-10-25 23:43:34] macios15 : ja to samo juz 150% mam
[2015-10-25 23:43:40] jung1 : 358%
[2015-10-25 23:43:48] macios15 : uu nice
[2015-10-25 23:43:59] macios15 : daily czy 3d
[2015-10-25 23:44:02] jung1 : a na xbth 98% narazie
[2015-10-25 23:44:04] jung1 : daily
[2015-10-25 23:44:07] macios15 : znaczy 7
[2015-10-25 23:44:17] macios15 : to ładnie owtorzyles idealnie
[2015-10-25 23:44:24] macios15 : ALE PIZGŁO
[2015-10-25 23:44:48] macios15 : 4h sar poleciał
[2015-10-25 23:45:05] macios15 : 6 h dopiero na 1825
[2015-10-25 23:45:29] jung1 : ciężko będzie to zatrzymać
[2015-10-25 23:45:42] macios15 : czerwone dildo startuje
[2015-10-25 23:45:50] macios15 : ciekawe czy korekta czy koniec wzrostów
[2015-10-25 23:45:55] macios15 : ale raczej korekta to nie bedzie
[2015-10-25 23:46:46] macios15 : kiedy zamyasz?
[2015-10-25 23:46:50] jung1 : 424%
[2015-10-25 23:46:50] macios15 : zamykasz*
[2015-10-25 23:46:56] macios15 : 220
[2015-10-25 23:46:58] jung1 : nie wiem
[2015-10-25 23:47:02] jung1 : potrzymam jeszcze
[2015-10-25 23:47:16] Ontita : Does the trollbox have an "auto translate" function?
[2015-10-25 23:47:26] jung1 : hehe
[2015-10-25 23:47:29] jung1 : I dont think so
[2015-10-25 23:47:45] jung1 : but you can learn some polish
[2015-10-25 23:58:35] Ontita : He he he, cool to know that's Polish...
[2015-10-26 00:00:03] Ontita : While am at it, you guys do have a good use for "z" man, I cannot think of a word that uses z in my mother tongue
[2015-10-26 00:01:51] jung1 : where you from?
[2015-10-26 00:02:34] jung1 : yeah and we have several letters like ż ź which you spell different than z
[2015-10-26 01:53:08] sleger : the balance on top represents the mark to market of the total account value ?
[2015-10-26 01:54:14] jerryd : what is the diff in XBTV15 and XBT7D?
[2015-10-26 01:54:38] jerryd : they settle same day, priced the same, yet different price
[2015-10-26 01:55:10] jerryd : also XBT7D says 50x margin, but the mouse over says 100x UX bug???
[2015-10-26 01:55:58] nickhnt : One contract settles every friday the other settles at the end of every month
[2015-10-26 01:56:28] nickhnt : They have different max margins
[2015-10-26 01:58:27] Original_Wolf : What does Sell/Short mean?
[2015-10-26 01:58:54] jerryd : where does the max margins show?
[2015-10-26 02:01:48] macios15 : Original_Wolf: dont use this site if u dont know
[2015-10-26 02:11:15] laisee : use test site @ https://testnet.bitmex.com for learning first
[2015-10-26 02:14:11] sleger : the balance on top represents the mark to market value of the account ?
[2015-10-26 02:15:29] j8 : sleger: balance includes realised PNL only
[2015-10-26 02:15:59] sleger : so real account value is balance plus sum of all unrealised pnl ?
[2015-10-26 02:16:09] j8 : yes
[2015-10-26 02:16:42] sleger : they should have a total account value number as it makes most sense on top of the screen
[2015-10-26 02:16:43] sleger : thanks
[2015-10-26 02:19:00] j8 : if you use the advanced view there is a slider with your unrealised pnl added up
[2015-10-26 02:23:26] sleger : there is mostly one algo market maker he was showing ~12k sizes but only 7.5k now, did he lose money ?
[2015-10-26 02:26:39] j8 : probably, has been quoting a big premium the last two days
[2015-10-26 04:33:16] ethexio : Hey, so why would market close close me at $228.56?
[2015-10-26 04:33:48] ethexio : Not 282, 228.
[2015-10-26 04:40:56] BitMEX_Wally : ethexio: Technically a market order has no price, so a market sell means sell all the way down to 0. In your case a market close is limited by your liquidation price.
[2015-10-26 04:41:30] ethexio : ah. So it didn't close at 228
[2015-10-26 04:41:34] BitMEX_Wally : ethexio: So when you submitted a market close order it was an order to sell with the limit price of 228. Your order was filled by the order book at 282.52
[2015-10-26 04:41:56] BitMEX_Wally : Yes, you got the 'market' price which was 282.52 :)
[2015-10-26 04:42:19] ethexio : Yeah, just saw that price on notification and pee'd a little.
[2015-10-26 04:42:27] ethexio : Thanks for clarification
[2015-10-26 04:42:29] ethexio : :)
[2015-10-26 05:17:13] Original_Wolf : Is there a indicator to add to the graphs for the fair price margin?
[2015-10-26 08:55:01] BitMEX_Wally : Original_Wolf: That's a good idea, we're working on it
[2015-10-26 09:07:28] Original_Wolf : Alright sweet,
[2015-10-26 09:08:12] TomFoolery247 : can someone break this down in laymans terms for me?
[2015-10-26 09:09:06] BitMEX_Arthur : TomFoolery247: What questions do you have
[2015-10-26 09:09:22] BitMEX_Arthur : I suggest first you go to your deposit address and send a small amount of Bitcoin so you can try out the platform
[2015-10-26 09:09:37] BitMEX_Arthur : Trading 1 contract of XBT24H will let you experience how things work
[2015-10-26 09:09:53] BitMEX_Arthur : 1 contract is worth 0.0029 Bitcoin
[2015-10-26 09:10:04] BitMEX_Arthur : so with 100x you don't have to deposit much to try it out
[2015-10-26 09:10:06] BitMEX_Wally : Which only require 0.000029 Bitcoin in your account :)
[2015-10-26 09:15:23] gaoMex : BitMEX_Wally: Are you the technical person here?
[2015-10-26 09:15:44] BitMEX_Wally : gaoMex: Yes, how can I help?
[2015-10-26 09:16:35] gaoMex : Somewhat unrelated, have you heard of lightning network?
[2015-10-26 09:16:48] BitMEX_Wally : Of course
[2015-10-26 09:17:28] gaoMex : In your opinion, is it good or bad for Bitcoin?
[2015-10-26 09:17:56] BitMEX_Wally : Certainly not bad
[2015-10-26 09:18:21] BitMEX_Wally : I think unidirectional side chains would be very good for Bitcoin
[2015-10-26 09:19:35] gaoMex : Wouldn't lightning network reduce transaction fees for miners?
[2015-10-26 09:20:43] BitMEX_Wally : Might reduce transaction fees, but it would increase the value proposition of Bitcoin, so their block reward would be worth more in real terms
[2015-10-26 09:22:23] gaoMex : I hope so, But my concern is as time passes, block reward gets reduced. With Lightning network, transaction fees get reduced as well. Then what's left for miners?
[2015-10-26 09:24:31] BitMEX_Wally : Miners can cross mine on side chains too
[2015-10-26 09:25:08] BitMEX_Wally : So they could make even more
[2015-10-26 09:25:39] gaoMex : "Cross mine on side chains" - U mean alt coins?
[2015-10-26 09:26:41] BitMEX_Wally : Doesn't have to be an alt coin. The side chain is a separate blockchain that is moving Bitcoin tokens around
[2015-10-26 09:26:58] BitMEX_Wally : The miners can earn tx fees in Bitcoin on the side chain
[2015-10-26 09:27:19] gaoMex : In Lightning Network, it is called payment channel.
[2015-10-26 09:30:09] BitMEX_Wally : I know more about side chains than the Lightning Network. an these payment channels earn tx fees?
[2015-10-26 09:31:32] gaoMex : Yes.
[2015-10-26 09:33:43] gaoMex : In very simple terms, if A want to send to D, and do it through A->B->C->D, then B and C gets a share of the tx fees.
[2015-10-26 09:34:22] BitMEX_Wally : Using nLockTime to enforce compliance
[2015-10-26 09:35:24] gaoMex : I have only glimpsed through the paper but yes, nLockTime for compliance.
[2015-10-26 09:37:46] BitMEX_Wally : Lightning network would be great for BitMEX, we could do real-time settlement of contracts
[2015-10-26 09:38:23] BitMEX_Wally : i.e. move the PNL back and forth between counter parties, and only keep 1% (for example) as margin.
[2015-10-26 09:38:46] BitMEX_Wally : Reduces the need to trust a 3rd-party centralised exchange :)
[2015-10-26 09:39:19] gaoMex : Yes, you are right.
[2015-10-26 09:39:27] BitMEX_Wally : Then one day re-implement the whole BitMEX risk system inside Ethereum, so it's a decentralised derivatives exchange
[2015-10-26 09:39:45] BitMEX_Wally : (assuming Ethereum can be a pegged side chain of Bitcoin)
[2015-10-26 09:41:20] gaoMex : Don't know enough about Ethereum to comment.
[2015-10-26 09:41:45] gaoMex : But again, I don't think miners will participate in the payment channels.
[2015-10-26 09:42:12] gaoMex : It's not really mining in payment channels.
[2015-10-26 09:43:04] gaoMex : At least this is my understanding. I might be wrong.
[2015-10-26 09:44:40] laisee : no worries that LN Hubs might be targeted as Money Xfer agents by regulators?
[2015-10-26 09:46:13] gaoMex : laisee: There will be multiple? If one down, others will take its place?
[2015-10-26 09:47:03] laisee : yes, technically I guess there might be some fallback options. .
[2015-10-26 09:48:21] laisee : More concerned the Hubs might become centralized, due to economies of scale, and hen targets for regulators ... and hackers.
[2015-10-26 10:44:07] wykop.pl : is there any app for android?
[2015-10-26 10:46:12] BitMEX_Wally : wykop.pl: Our website looks pretty good on Android
[2015-10-26 10:46:48] SnackyCoins : +1 mobile website is fantastic
[2015-10-26 10:47:25] SnackyCoins : those +/- buttons are super nice
[2015-10-26 11:09:35] macios15 : wykop.pl: karaczan?
[2015-10-26 13:14:21] jung1 : what was that site with bitcoin exchanges ranking?
[2015-10-26 13:14:45] BitMEX_Wally : jung1: http://exchangewar.info/#bitmex
[2015-10-26 13:16:55] jung1 : thanks
[2015-10-26 13:26:22] sleger : Shouldn't the settlement fees be halved ?
[2015-10-26 13:30:17] justinlooking : Seychelles ?
[2015-10-26 14:58:43] BitMEX_Wally : justinlooking: We are incorporated in the Republic of Seychelles
[2015-10-26 16:42:32] daverich : Looking at XBUZ15, each contract is worth 100$ of btc, but then we have XBT7D which is worth 0.00001 XBT per $1 price, how could I get these "contract unit worth" values from the API?
[2015-10-26 16:45:25] BitMEX_Wally : daverich: The `execCost` field is always in the margin currency, i.e. `XBt` which is Satoshis
[2015-10-26 16:45:58] BitMEX_Wally : On the position object the `markValue` is in Satoshis.
[2015-10-26 16:46:49] BitMEX_Wally : Or you can look at `homeNotional` which is the value of the position in the underlying (i.e. `XBT` or `XLT`)
[2015-10-26 16:47:02] BitMEX_Wally : And `foreignNotional` which is in the quote currency (i.e. `USD`)
[2015-10-26 16:49:54] BitMEX_Wally : Or do you want a formula for calculating the value of 1 contract for a given instrument?
[2015-10-26 16:50:17] daverich : yeah formula for the current value of 1 contract for a given instrument
[2015-10-26 16:52:34] BitMEX_Wally : Ok, if you want the current value in the margin currency (i.e. Satoshis) then you can do `(multiplier >= 0) ? multiplier * markPrice : multiplier / markPrice`
[2015-10-26 16:57:20] daverich : Thanks.
[2015-10-26 17:20:44] daverich : BitMEX_Wally: For Negative Multipliers the result is the number of satoshis each contract is worth? eg: (XBUZ15) Multiplier = -10000000000 / 287.09 = -34832282.55947612?
[2015-10-26 17:20:56] BitMEX_Wally : Correct
[2015-10-26 17:21:45] BitMEX_Wally : If you are long 1 contract of `XBUZ15` you are actually short 100 `USD`
[2015-10-26 17:24:51] BitMEX_Wally : The value of this short USD position is -34832282 Satoshi, i.e. -0.348 Bitcoin
[2015-10-26 17:25:30] BitMEX_Wally : As the price of the contract rises, the value increases (becomes less negative)
[2015-10-26 17:25:39] daverich : I'm moreso trying to create a function: "I want to go X BTC long on Y symbol, how many contracts do I need to buy?"
[2015-10-26 17:26:29] BitMEX_Wally : Well, take the Satoshi value and divide by 1e8 to get Bitcoin
[2015-10-26 17:26:41] BitMEX_Wally : Then take the absolute reciprocal
[2015-10-26 17:26:51] BitMEX_Wally : Round to the nearest integer
[2015-10-26 17:28:17] daverich : So essentially the multiplier value returned from the API is in terms of USD?
[2015-10-26 17:29:04] BitMEX_Wally : The `multiplier` is used to get from `quoteCurrency` (i.e. `USD`) to `settlCurrency` (i.e. `XBt`)
[2015-10-26 17:30:21] BitMEX_Wally : So the `XBTZ15` multiplier is 1000 meaning 0.00001 Bitcoin per $
[2015-10-26 17:31:03] BitMEX_Wally : The `XBUZ15` multiplier is -10000000000 meaning -100 `USD` per contract
[2015-10-26 17:32:47] daverich : is there anything in the API response that differentiates between the "value per $" (Like XBTZ15) and the "fixed value per contract" (like XBUZ15)?
[2015-10-26 17:33:00] BitMEX_Wally : Yes, if the multiplier is negative
[2015-10-26 17:33:08] BitMEX_Wally : Then it means you take the reciprocal of the price
[2015-10-26 17:33:17] BitMEX_Wally : We call these 'inverse futures'
[2015-10-26 17:33:36] BitMEX_Wally : You can also look at the `isInverse` field on the `instrument`
[2015-10-26 17:33:42] BitMEX_Wally : See also `isQuanto`
[2015-10-26 17:40:17] BitMEX_Wally : daverich: I'm heading off soon
[2015-10-26 17:40:37] daverich : No problem BitMEX_Wally, and thanks for your help!
[2015-10-26 17:41:00] BitMEX_Wally : You're welcome, let me know if you have any more questions
[2015-10-26 18:09:50] nickhnt : how many orders we can put in the orderboo
[2015-10-26 18:10:14] nickhnt : orderbook
[2015-10-26 18:10:44] nickhnt : ?
[2015-10-26 18:24:35] BitMEX_Wally : nickhnt: No hard limits, except for API rate-limits
[2015-10-26 18:37:09] nickhnt : BitMEX_Wally: But if somebody flood the orderbook with like 1 contract per order, it will be a mess lol
[2015-10-26 18:37:21] nickhnt : it would*
[2015-10-26 18:53:08] BitMEX_Wally : We use fail2ban so can block naughty IP addresses quickly
[2015-10-26 19:21:33] sleger : not if they enter order slowly
[2015-10-26 19:21:56] sleger : imagine 1 lot orders every level, nobody would be able to see anything in terms of REAL liquidity in the OB
[2015-10-26 19:22:13] sleger : => the min quote size 1 contract is too small
[2015-10-26 19:35:06] Yumi : I clicked "Expired Positions" tab and it broke whole website, I had to remove cookies to fix it
[2015-10-26 20:04:09] j8 : confirmed
[2015-10-26 20:36:39] macios15 : dump it guys i need to chrom wrap my 5,7 hemi
[2015-10-26 20:52:15] FoCheezyBreezy : Uhoh. macios15. It didn't dump. It pumped. You gonna have to sell that hemi now? :P
[2015-10-26 21:11:21] BitMEX_Sam : Yumi: Thanks, that's fixed, I appreciate the notification.
[2015-10-26 21:49:31] FoCheezyBreezy : BitMEX_Sam: i'd like to see an arrow next to the fair price too, so i can see what direction it last moved.
[2015-10-26 21:50:43] FoCheezyBreezy : Also it would be nice to see an additional column in the open positions tab that calculates a realtime PNL based on the order book, so we know what to expect when we close an order.
[2015-10-26 22:09:41] sleger : at same price, orders are executed FIFO ?
[2015-10-27 01:34:18] lockhedge : again XBUZ15 (settlement in December) ask (293.64) even below XBT24H. nobody interested in long-term buys with lower leverage? no DPE or other surprises with XBU.
[2015-10-27 01:38:37] gaoMex : I think the underlying asset is different.
[2015-10-27 01:41:05] AudibleScience : lockhedge: do you have a site?
[2015-10-27 01:42:07] AudibleScience : ... and is it down?
[2015-10-27 01:52:16] lockhedge : gaoMex: XBU is just an inverse future, priced in USD, not BTC. if you go short you'll always get $100 for each contract. On the other side It's cleared by BitMEX, so profits are guaranteed (no DPE) and can be withdrawn instantly.
[2015-10-27 01:55:22] gaoMex : How should one trade to take advantage of the low price in XBUZ15? Kinda new to futures.
[2015-10-27 01:55:26] lockhedge : AudibleScience: currently only an API and on Twitter/Medium.
[2015-10-27 01:57:37] sleger : can we send orders via websocket api or is it only for market data ?
[2015-10-27 01:59:01] lockhedge : gaoMex: recommend this great blog post by Arthur: "Cash And Carry Arbitrage With BitMEX Futures" https://blog.bitmex.com/cash-and-carry-arbitrage-with-bitmex-futures/
[2015-10-27 02:00:42] gaoMex : I read that. In this case though, XBUZ15 is clearly lower priced. Cash and carry arbitrage is not a good trade.
[2015-10-27 02:06:04] j8 : buy `XBUZ15` and sell `XBTZ15` if the difference is big enough. there's a different blog post for that
[2015-10-27 02:09:47] lockhedge : gaoMex: posted it because it provides a lot of information about XBU and XBT, not to exactly copy the strategy. here's more https://blog.bitmex.com/xbt-vs-xbu-chain/
[2015-10-27 02:27:12] BitMEX_Wally : sleger: WebSocket API will give you all your data, executions, positions, etc. but you can only place orders via REST
[2015-10-27 02:28:25] BitMEX_Wally : sleger: Regarding your previous query, trades are matched on a price then time priority, so the order book is FIFO. Just be aware that StopLimit orders have time priority from when they were placed, not from when they were triggered.
[2015-10-27 02:29:00] sleger : thank you
[2015-10-27 04:42:55] Ontita : Hi, is 280 - 290 the new range?
[2015-10-27 04:43:49] Ontita : Or is this a soft and tender caress upwards?
[2015-10-27 05:16:21] BitMEX_Wally : Ontita: Check out our blog for some technical analysis: https://blog.bitmex.com
[2015-10-27 06:00:36] kogroken : Last entry is from a week ago?
[2015-10-27 06:01:40] kogroken : oh, seems not. Refresh didn't work, had to open the link in a new browser.
[2015-10-27 06:02:19] aethlios : market makers are sleeping???
[2015-10-27 06:04:59] kogroken : seems so. The probably got scared away by volatility.
[2015-10-27 06:05:38] kogroken : Orderbooks are slowly starting to fill in more without them as well, which is nice.
[2015-10-27 06:06:44] aethlios : MMs should be brave, this is bitcoinland.
[2015-10-27 06:10:18] prospecta : 100x is so dead wtf
[2015-10-27 06:11:41] prospecta : oh i see above no MM's
[2015-10-27 06:11:46] prospecta : well isnt that lovely
[2015-10-27 06:15:53] micmix : well according to my analysis top MM that was quoting 10k+ on 24H lost quite a bit of money.
[2015-10-27 06:16:12] prospecta : im not surprised i think market making would be hard here
[2015-10-27 06:16:21] prospecta : the spreads are ridiculous for 100x though
[2015-10-27 06:18:06] micmix : We are running a couple of promising algos in simulation mode for the past 5 weeks. You might see our MM bot here soon.
[2015-10-27 06:19:42] prospecta : that would be awesome
[2015-10-27 06:20:10] prospecta : im loving the 100x making mad % gains but the spreads are unfortunate
[2015-10-27 06:20:57] prospecta : oh damn look at that!!!
[2015-10-27 06:21:25] prospecta : 10k orders to the rescue!!
[2015-10-27 06:21:55] BitMEX_Wally : micmix: We would love to see your MM bots here, let us know if we can help
[2015-10-27 06:22:35] prospecta : someone sure stepped up just now
[2015-10-27 06:25:21] micmix : BitMEX_Wally: I cannot make any promises, our quants are still not convinced it's worth their time even with all the latest volume increase. I connected the data feeds from BitMEX to our system and we are running simulations.
[2015-10-27 06:26:24] BitMEX_Wally : micmix: How do you estimate the loss of the 10k market maker, it would depend on their hedge
[2015-10-27 06:28:42] aethlios : BitMEX_Wally: consider a small rebate for maker fee, (for example -0.005%) and keep taker fee the same. this will help them be more profitable. all stock exchanges have rebates.
[2015-10-27 06:30:23] micmix : I'm not a quant and have to ask the guy who did the analysis but I think he assumed the MM used standard delta-hedging strategy
[2015-10-27 06:30:25] BitMEX_Wally : Surely a 0.005% rebate would be the same as just quoting 2 cents wider?
[2015-10-27 06:41:52] BitMEX_Wally : aethlios: We'll look into it, but generally stock exchanges offer rebates so that brokers can keep the rebates and not pass them on to their customers
[2015-10-27 06:42:10] BitMEX_Wally : Hence why most hedge funds now go for a cost-plus model
[2015-10-27 06:43:19] aethlios : you can talk with MMs if a rebate could help them.
[2015-10-27 06:44:01] BitMEX_Wally : Hah, if we listened to everything MMs say we'd have a tick size of $1
[2015-10-27 06:44:54] BitMEX_Wally : and they'd want the right to reject a trade after their quote was hit
[2015-10-27 06:46:50] BitMEX_Wally : We'll listen nonetheless :)
[2015-10-27 07:53:55] ethexio : whee
[2015-10-27 07:59:45] wykop.pl : is it possible to get email notification when position is open/closed?
[2015-10-27 08:15:55] BitMEX_Wally : wykop.pl: We send notifications to the browser, so if you login on your phone you'll get notifications when orders are filled
[2015-10-27 08:28:30] wykop.pl : on Lollipop and Chrome 46 the website freezes once browser is minimized. After few minutes of beeing iddle I have login again. So the notification doesn't work.
[2015-10-27 08:34:47] BitMEX_Wally : wykop.pl: Hmm that shouldn't happen. I'll get BitMEX_Sam to follow up with you
[2015-10-27 08:55:51] zanza : what phone model wy
[2015-10-27 08:56:07] wykop.pl : Samsung Galaxy s4
[2015-10-27 08:56:13] zanza : samsung kills inactive windows
[2015-10-27 08:56:20] zanza : to save battery
[2015-10-27 08:56:35] zanza : so maybe that may be it
[2015-10-27 11:42:50] macios15 : whats the settlement fee
[2015-10-27 11:59:54] sleger : same as trading unfortunately, it is not halved
[2015-10-27 13:38:38] wurstgelee : how is the "fair basis" calculated?
[2015-10-27 13:40:33] BitMEX_Arthur : We set it manually to match the futures price
[2015-10-27 13:40:38] BitMEX_Arthur : It is an annualised interest rate
[2015-10-27 13:40:51] BitMEX_Arthur : Applied to the TradeBlock XBX Index price
[2015-10-27 13:41:44] wurstgelee : i just wondered because itsuddenly jumped by $2 or something...
[2015-10-27 13:42:04] wurstgelee : probably less than $2, but by a significant amount
[2015-10-27 13:42:33] BitMEX_Arthur : https://www.bitmex.com/app/dynamicProfitEqualisation
[2015-10-27 13:42:42] BitMEX_Arthur : For more details read the section on Fair Price marking
[2015-10-27 13:45:48] wurstgelee : ok, but that means by changing the fair basis "from time to time" u might a probably will force positions into getting marging called without any price movement, right?
[2015-10-27 13:45:59] wurstgelee : *a=and
[2015-10-27 13:46:20] BitMEX_Arthur : We are not in the business of our actions forcing someone into liquidation, so we do things gradually
[2015-10-27 13:47:55] wurstgelee : i understand that this is not ur intention but since those adjustments are not predictable in any way for traders, its causing exactly that. it didnt happen to me when you adjusted the value a fw minutes ago, im just wondering
[2015-10-27 13:48:39] j8 : BitMEX_Arthur: it needs to be more gradual for 100x. someone could open a position right before the adjustment and get liquidated
[2015-10-27 13:49:06] wurstgelee : yep. it jumped by >$1 out of nothing, dont know how much exactly
[2015-10-27 13:49:19] wurstgelee : maybe even $2
[2015-10-27 13:49:33] j8 : $1.50 at least
[2015-10-27 13:49:38] wurstgelee : yep
[2015-10-27 13:49:57] wurstgelee : thats too much @ 100x...
[2015-10-27 13:50:23] j8 : it also means that those liquidations are behind the market and likely won't get filled
[2015-10-27 13:50:58] Yumi : I think eventually fair basis should be set by algorithm in real-time not manually from time to time
[2015-10-27 13:51:09] wurstgelee : Yumi: YES!
[2015-10-27 13:51:24] BitMEX_Arthur : As liquidity grows we will automate things more and more
[2015-10-27 13:51:54] wurstgelee : BitMEX_Arthur: but you undestand that adjusting by $1.50 @ 100x seriously fucks things up, right?
[2015-10-27 13:51:56] BitMEX_Wally : Just to confirm, we have never triggered a liquidation due to adjusting the basis
[2015-10-27 13:51:57] laisee : a fairer, gentler fair basis ;-)
[2015-10-27 13:53:30] wurstgelee : BitMEX_Wally: how does that work? if youre close to liquidation and price moves $1.50 in wrong direction - how can that not liquidate you?
[2015-10-27 13:54:22] BitMEX_Wally : Arthur looks at the liquidation prices before adjusting the fair basis
[2015-10-27 13:55:17] j8 : that whole situation is not so comforting...
[2015-10-27 13:55:24] wurstgelee : better than nothing. this has to be autpmated and made transparent asap imo...
[2015-10-27 13:55:31] BitMEX_Wally : We understand, and we will work to automate this
[2015-10-27 13:56:12] BitMEX_Wally : If we marked to lastPrice it would be transparent but manipulatable
[2015-10-27 13:56:31] wurstgelee : maybe use x lastPrices?
[2015-10-27 13:56:40] wurstgelee : use a middle
[2015-10-27 13:57:01] j8 : The other thing that's really important is making the liquidations public - we should be able to audit the DPE system
[2015-10-27 13:57:06] BitMEX_Wally : Yes, we are looking at adjusting the basis using a time weighted average of the last traded prices
[2015-10-27 13:57:29] wurstgelee : BitMEX_Wally: yes, time weighted...exactly. sorry, not my native language =)
[2015-10-27 13:58:02] wurstgelee : also what j8 said
[2015-10-27 13:58:10] BitMEX_Wally : Yes, we want to be as fair and transparent as possible
[2015-10-27 13:58:12] wurstgelee : transparency is important imo
[2015-10-27 13:58:12] j8 : Since DPE was introduced, you guys have collected extra maintenance margin from liquidations. How much?
[2015-10-27 13:58:50] BitMEX_Wally : We are working on an API to publish the liquidations and outstanding bankruptcies, etc.
[2015-10-27 13:58:58] wurstgelee : and finally to make sure you dont get me wrong: i love your site and i think youre doing a great job :)
[2015-10-27 13:59:47] BitMEX_Wally : Yeah, we've kept the DPE adjustment at 0% :)
[2015-10-27 14:00:23] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.bitmex.com/app/settlementHistory
[2015-10-27 14:01:28] wurstgelee : finally....some retracing. ;)
[2015-10-27 14:03:32] wurstgelee : that $1.50 higher mark price still fucks my short position up tho oO
[2015-10-27 14:04:24] macios15 : wurstgelee: not for long time
[2015-10-27 14:04:58] wurstgelee : thats the plan =)
[2015-10-27 14:05:05] justinlooking : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtKADQnjQmc naturlich
[2015-10-27 14:08:15] justinlooking : How can bitmex's Z15 trade with a $10-15 premium over okc's equivalent? Am i missing something?
[2015-10-27 14:08:59] BitMEX_Wally : justinlooking: Our future is quanto, so you have long gamma in USD terms
[2015-10-27 14:09:15] BitMEX_Wally : OKCoin is an inverse future (like our XBU) so no gamma
[2015-10-27 14:09:41] macios15 : u could make inverse 100x lol
[2015-10-27 14:10:19] sleger : BitMEX_Wally: Why arent settlement half of trading fees ?
[2015-10-27 14:10:47] justinlooking : thanks Wally, so why is XBUZ15 a $10 discount over okc's?
[2015-10-27 14:11:46] BitMEX_Wally : We guarantee settlement of XBU
[2015-10-27 14:12:00] sleger : okcoin is 305 if you want to buy UZ it is 300 so the difference is really only 5
[2015-10-27 14:12:00] BitMEX_Wally : No DPE
[2015-10-27 14:12:11] BitMEX_Wally : sleger: Arb it :)
[2015-10-27 14:12:37] sleger : BitMEX_Wally: arb settlemetn fees ?
[2015-10-27 14:12:40] j8 : OKC index is about $4 higher at the moment
[2015-10-27 14:12:47] BitMEX_Wally : I mean arb our futures with OKC
[2015-10-27 14:13:04] sleger : I was answering @justinlooking that is all
[2015-10-27 14:13:20] sleger : he was the one bringing that up, he should arb it
[2015-10-27 14:13:42] sleger : BitMEX_Wally: Would still like an answer on my original question though...
[2015-10-27 14:13:54] BitMEX_Wally : About settlement fees?
[2015-10-27 14:13:57] BitMEX_Wally : We'll think about it
[2015-10-27 14:15:07] sleger : because if traders were not stupid they would post orders around settlemetn price to benefit from maker zero fees
[2015-10-27 14:15:28] sleger : unfortunately every day on the 24h there is no seller around the settlement price
[2015-10-27 14:16:52] j8 : i'm not stupid, i've done that :) even taking a slightly worse closing price to not pay the fee
[2015-10-27 14:17:33] sleger : well unfortunately most dont
[2015-10-27 14:18:14] sleger : and i end up having to pay the whole fee, which is suboptimal for the whole community, hence my request to have settlement fees halved this would be very fair for everyone
[2015-10-27 14:21:41] BitMEX_Wally : sleger: Yes, we're looking into it. The open interest at settlement is generally not much compared to the daily turnover.
[2015-10-27 14:23:19] BitMEX_Wally : I'm heading out, will catch you guys later.
[2015-10-27 14:23:27] jung1 : weee 300
[2015-10-27 14:24:47] Yumi : sleger: you want to have people post orders near settlement price before expiry but propose reducing incentive for them to do so by reducing fees they have to pay if they leave position open
[2015-10-27 14:25:27] sleger : I propose 1/2 which is (maker fee+taker fee)/2
[2015-10-27 14:25:45] sleger : it's just logical...
[2015-10-27 14:28:03] Yumi : for me settlement fee is tax on lazy ones
[2015-10-27 14:28:42] jung1 : $5 spread
[2015-10-27 14:29:43] wurstgelee : confess,who bought 305.32? :)
[2015-10-27 14:30:40] Yumi : maybe somebody market closed
[2015-10-27 14:34:30] sleger : Yumi: "tax on lazy ones" yes you can see it like that but what if you are ready to buy at settlement price plus dust but nobody is there to sell, it is tax on you for only having lazy people in front of you and you cant do anything against that
[2015-10-27 14:34:55] justinlooking : mun mun
[2015-10-27 14:45:04] SnackyCoins : can't complain about fees on any bitcoin exchange personally
[2015-10-27 14:45:18] SnackyCoins : compared to trading on a fiat broker, bitcoin trading is basically free
[2015-10-27 14:45:55] macios15 : my d is already hard now, if we pass 2000 im gona explode
[2015-10-27 14:46:35] AudibleScience : lol @macios15
[2015-10-27 14:47:20] Yumi : SnackyCoins: That's true however even 0.05% for open and for close on 100x leverage is 10% of your equity
[2015-10-27 14:47:43] AudibleScience : I don't think we'll get there today man... @macios15
[2015-10-27 14:48:22] macios15 : i thought that u want to make me explode
[2015-10-27 14:48:35] SnackyCoins : stop isolating margin and manage your risk 8)
[2015-10-27 14:49:47] macios15 : noo, i fall asleep too many times
[2015-10-27 14:50:26] wurstgelee : same
[2015-10-27 14:50:36] wurstgelee : =)
[2015-10-27 14:50:49] wurstgelee : or im @ work where i suddenly might have to actually work
[2015-10-27 14:56:41] wurstgelee : nice . :D
[2015-10-27 14:56:49] wurstgelee : i love a good rejection ;)
[2015-10-27 15:17:04] macios15 : wurstgelee: no i would see some nice price erection
[2015-10-27 15:17:39] wurstgelee : later maybe ;)
[2015-10-27 17:03:07] Rizky : will there be an option to choose your leverage? somewhere between isolate (max) and min?
[2015-10-27 17:13:11] SnackyCoins : they have confirmed that, yes rizky
[2015-10-27 17:13:11] SnackyCoins : they have confirmed that, yes rizky
[2015-10-27 17:13:30] SnackyCoins : bah lag doublepost
[2015-10-27 17:13:39] SnackyCoins : "don't press the button twice" 8)
[2015-10-27 17:13:47] Rizky : thanks dude
[2015-10-27 17:14:11] jung1 : volume on china exchanges is quite big
[2015-10-27 17:14:11] SnackyCoins : someone else in here has already done it actually, it's possible via api appearently
[2015-10-27 17:14:21] jung1 : maybe its last days under $300
[2015-10-27 17:14:46] j8 : https://www.bitmex.com/api/explorer/#!/Position/Position_transferIsolatedMargin
[2015-10-27 17:20:27] sleger : jung1: no, it will go above 300 and go back below
[2015-10-27 17:36:40] daverich : How come with a positive Unrealised PNL trying to close a position can lead to liquidation?
[2015-10-27 17:39:21] j8 : if you're using the Close Market button i heard people saying there is a bug with that, not sure if its been fixed
[2015-10-27 17:42:13] sleger : daverich: maybe because unrealised is based on fair value whereas market price can actually be different ?
[2015-10-27 17:44:22] j8 : yeah it really has to do with the closing price, not the mark price or unrealised pnl
[2015-10-27 17:45:49] daverich : Thanks.
[2015-10-27 19:29:05] STRML : Yeah there's a risk check issue that can happen in some situations with Close Market - if you hit it, just use Close Limit deep into the market. A fix is coming soon
[2015-10-27 19:30:58] dynamike23 : Yeah I was running into issues with the Close Market button as well. Good to know its being looked at.
[2015-10-27 21:13:55] wurstgelee : soo....10k bot got rekt? =)
[2015-10-27 21:21:51] sleger : it changes sizes
[2015-10-27 21:27:24] wurstgelee : oh right, excellent :D
[2015-10-27 21:51:12] jung1 : it could be lats days under 300
[2015-10-27 21:55:07] AbuAli : why the Realised PNL Still minus
[2015-10-27 21:55:09] AbuAli : ?
[2015-10-27 21:55:42] AbuAli : what time it came minus ??
[2015-10-27 21:57:58] jung1 : whole 24h
[2015-10-27 21:58:14] jung1 : its your profit or lose during whole contract
[2015-10-27 21:58:25] jung1 : *loss
[2015-10-27 21:59:35] AbuAli : i'm in dept ?
[2015-10-27 21:59:48] AbuAli : or it's already took it from my profit ?
[2015-10-27 22:01:13] Yumi : fees you paid go into Realised PNL maybe that is it if thats small amount