This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2016-10-25 19:15:24] justinlooking : nope
[2016-10-25 19:15:41] justinlooking : u could enumerate the names of people that have spoken from api /chat
[2016-10-25 19:16:50] martinium : wonder when xbtusd is going to start rising some more. All things are pointing to a move towards and above $800
[2016-10-25 19:18:56] BitMEX_Greg : martinium: I don't believe we publish that data
[2016-10-25 19:19:49] BitMEX_Greg : martinium: With CNY devaluing day on day and the premium starting to increase, I don't doubt we will see a huge rise soon
[2016-10-25 19:21:03] habibi : this is the thing that annoys me right now,everyone is bullish
[2016-10-25 19:23:16] BitMEX_Greg : Why is that annoying? Are you short?
[2016-10-25 19:23:42] sleger : no, but if everyone is bullish and long it's gonna crash
[2016-10-25 19:24:57] habibi : BitMEX_Greg: u can check if i am
[2016-10-25 19:25:17] habibi : sleger: yep
[2016-10-25 19:25:22] BitMEX_Greg : haha
[2016-10-25 19:25:39] BitMEX_Greg : Well it needs new funds coming in
[2016-10-25 19:25:59] BitMEX_Greg : if everyone is leveraged and cashed out then it won't be able to move up more
[2016-10-25 19:26:52] sleger : if only we could trade BTC/insults we'd have unlimited supply of money around here, with rapidtrades
[2016-10-25 19:28:34] BitMEX_Greg : new coin request Sleger?
[2016-10-25 19:41:29] martinium : haha
[2016-10-25 19:41:41] martinium : I trade the chart and it screams bullish
[2016-10-25 19:42:02] martinium : fundamentals also bullish
[2016-10-25 19:42:54] martinium : Global Currencies all racing to devalue to compete. Near zero and negative rates in many places. Bitcoin is a better store of value than gold as it is also more useful for commerce.
[2016-10-25 19:43:04] martinium : All in due time
[2016-10-25 19:44:20] martinium : sleger: the contrarian in you says we go nowhere due to all the bulls. Just remember that the market doesn't care about my bias or yours price will move wherever the demand takes it.
[2016-10-25 19:44:34] martinium : since price*
[2016-10-25 19:45:53] BTCDJS : ooh this is going to be good. Rubs hands together.
[2016-10-25 19:54:45] martinium : lol
[2016-10-25 20:14:27] sleger : XBTUSD -80267 122.6239 XBT 654.86 654.58 xxxx.xx 3.2116 XBT (Cross) 0.0531 XBT (1.73%)
[2016-10-25 20:14:47] sleger : anyone quickly sees why this 122btc position requires 3.2btc of margin ?
[2016-10-25 20:19:40] BitMEX_Greg : sleger: Might be including some unrealised gains perhaps
[2016-10-25 20:19:43] Kalman : what is the risk limit
[2016-10-25 20:20:12] sleger : Kalman: ahah well done
[2016-10-25 20:20:16] mjones : damn, the 1 hour i was busy at work xmr and eth tanked and bounced
[2016-10-25 20:20:25] sleger : i had it on 300
[2016-10-25 20:20:31] BitMEX_Greg : sleger: The base risk limit is 200 xbt double check if you are on higher
[2016-10-25 20:20:32] BitMEX_Greg : ah
[2016-10-25 20:20:36] BitMEX_Greg : FYI: https://www.bitmex.com/app/riskLimits
[2016-10-25 20:20:46] Kalman : sleger: send you a bill ;)
[2016-10-25 20:21:04] sleger : BitMEX_Greg: maybe that should automatically go down if position is reduced below the threshold
[2016-10-25 20:21:16] sleger : as there is no reason to risk more for a user who reduced his risk
[2016-10-25 20:21:47] BitMEX_Greg : sleger: Yeah but it becomes more complicated then (if someone is teetering back and forth between the risk limits for example)
[2016-10-25 20:22:03] sleger : XBTUSD -83267 127.1837 XBT 654.87 654.70 xxxx.xx 3.3092 XBT (Cross) 0.0327 XBT (1.03%)
[2016-10-25 20:22:10] sleger : although I reduced it back to 200
[2016-10-25 20:23:06] sleger : BitMEX_Greg: I would be happy to confirm the risk increase again, but for most users it would be better to have it automatic I believe. So why is my position still using 3btc of collateral ?
[2016-10-25 20:23:21] BitMEX_Greg : I'm finding out
[2016-10-25 20:23:35] BitMEX_Greg : https://www.bitmex.com/app/isolatedMargin
[2016-10-25 20:23:39] sleger : I pasted each time the unrealised, it's tiny.
[2016-10-25 20:23:48] BitMEX_Greg : `Cross Margin, also known as “Spread Margin” is a margin method that utilises the full amount of funds in the Available Balance to avoid liquidations. Any Realised PNL from other positions can aid in adding margin on a losing position.`
[2016-10-25 20:24:13] sleger : doesnt answer the question
[2016-10-25 20:24:20] BitMEX_Greg : I need to double check this from Sam or Wally. Perhaps it is using the full amount in your available balance
[2016-10-25 20:24:26] BitMEX_Greg : Yeah I need to double check for you
[2016-10-25 20:24:35] sleger : my available balance is way higher
[2016-10-25 20:24:45] BitMEX_Greg : Yeah, I am not sure what the backend calc is here
[2016-10-25 20:25:04] sleger : my guess: when you reduce the max position it doesnt adjust back the margin
[2016-10-25 20:25:41] BitMEX_Sam : sleger: It does not automatically move it back down, but in the event of a liquidation the risk limit is adjusted to its minimum, then liquidation is re-run only if necessary
[2016-10-25 20:26:19] habibi : sleger: just changed to fixed and back to cross
[2016-10-25 20:26:23] habibi : change*
[2016-10-25 20:26:37] sleger : habibi: that worked
[2016-10-25 20:26:48] sleger : XBTUSD -83268 127.1869 XBT 654.87 654.69 xxxx.xx 1.4022 XBT (Cross) 0.0343 XBT (2.70%)
[2016-10-25 20:27:09] BitMEX_Sam : :+1: It assigns your profit to the position automatically.
[2016-10-25 20:35:36] bernx : BitMEX_Sam: fundng 1% per day?
[2016-10-25 20:36:01] BitMEX_Sam : bernx: Which contract?
[2016-10-25 20:36:08] bernx : XBTUSD
[2016-10-25 20:36:35] bernx : For two day Im lose about 5% lol
[2016-10-25 20:37:03] wurstgelee : if u are long, u paid a lot of funding for longs the last 2 days, thats correct
[2016-10-25 20:37:26] bernx : lol
[2016-10-25 20:37:34] wurstgelee : i wish ;)
[2016-10-25 20:37:51] bernx : And why then funding rate @0.14%?
[2016-10-25 20:38:19] bernx : even if every 8hours, there is about 1%, not even close to 5%
[2016-10-25 20:38:23] sleger : as long as you find it funny
[2016-10-25 20:38:32] BitMEX_Sam : Funding is trending down because XBTUSD is trading closer to spot
[2016-10-25 20:38:45] wurstgelee : bernx: it went down just recently
[2016-10-25 20:38:53] BitMEX_Sam : But you can see that for some time it was trading quite high above, which is why funding went up.
[2016-10-25 20:40:33] bernx : Ok. So, there was foe xample
[2016-10-25 20:40:40] bernx : 0.8 BTC long for 2 days
[2016-10-25 20:40:53] bernx : Funding history was 1.125% dayly
[2016-10-25 20:41:04] bernx : Ill lost about 0.06 BTC for funding
[2016-10-25 20:41:07] bernx : wtf?
[2016-10-25 20:41:28] sleger : that was a while ago ?
[2016-10-25 20:42:01] bernx : 24/10 15:00 my balance was 1.0293
[2016-10-25 20:42:07] bernx : For now there is 0.941
[2016-10-25 20:42:40] bernx : In open position was only 0.8BTC
[2016-10-25 20:43:11] BitMEX_Sam : Yes, funding has been quite high lately due to the pump
[2016-10-25 20:43:29] bernx : Was 1.125%
[2016-10-25 20:43:36] bernx : It's not about 8% mate
[2016-10-25 20:43:54] BitMEX_Sam : It's quoted per 8 hours, max 0.375%
[2016-10-25 20:44:07] bernx : Yes, and daily 1.125%
[2016-10-25 20:44:17] BitMEX_Sam : It's on position size, not underlying equity.
[2016-10-25 20:44:22] BitMEX_Greg : bernx: That occured only 1 day however, where all 3 periods ere 0.375%
[2016-10-25 20:44:35] BitMEX_Greg : It has since dropped down
[2016-10-25 20:45:18] bernx : So, there is I'm idiot, but then how 0.375% every 8 hours cut my depo for ~8% for 2 days
[2016-10-25 20:45:50] bernx : According to funding day table there is 0.375/1.125 funding
[2016-10-25 20:46:16] BitMEX_Greg : The rates are only every 8 hours
[2016-10-25 20:46:24] BitMEX_Greg : that Daily rate is just there for comparison
[2016-10-25 20:46:30] lockhedge : bernx: 8% of what? 8% of your position, of your balance?
[2016-10-25 20:46:57] sleger : "BitMEX_Sam: It's on position size, not underlying equity."
[2016-10-25 20:47:37] bernx : 0.8 BTC in position, 0.08 BTC for funding
[2016-10-25 20:47:43] bernx : So about 10% for 2 days, lol
[2016-10-25 20:47:54] bernx : Not worth even with grow market
[2016-10-25 20:48:28] BitMEX_Greg : bernx: We haven't had 10% funding over 2 days. The max it has been is 1.125% which occurred 1 day
[2016-10-25 20:48:56] bernx : So how it all happen?
[2016-10-25 20:49:22] BitMEX_Greg : bernx: let me check your account
[2016-10-25 20:49:32] manchstr_untd1 : greg, you are forgetting that leverage increases funding. so 1% a day at 20x leverage is actually 20% equity in funding costs
[2016-10-25 20:49:47] bernx : hm
[2016-10-25 20:49:57] BitMEX_Greg : manchstr_untd1: He said his position size was 0.8 BTC
[2016-10-25 20:49:59] bernx : Accoding 1% per day for leverage, so then rihgt
[2016-10-25 20:50:19] BTCDJS : fucking bitsamp.
[2016-10-25 20:50:42] BitMEX_Greg : bernx: Are you referring to your margin assigned to the position OR your total notional?
[2016-10-25 20:50:49] BitMEX_Greg : when you say 0.8 BTC
[2016-10-25 20:50:57] bernx : 2016-10-25 15:00:00 RealisedPNL -0.0710 XBT
[2016-10-25 20:50:59] bernx : To this
[2016-10-25 20:51:26] BitMEX_Greg : bernx: Ok but are you comparing this to your margin or to your position size?
[2016-10-25 20:51:54] martinium : if they fee was 0.375% every 8 hours always that means a trader would pay 7.875% per week in funding fees!
[2016-10-25 20:51:57] bernx : If Ill pay 1.125% per every leverage then it's all correct
[2016-10-25 20:52:24] martinium : guess they don't want long term longs on here
[2016-10-25 20:52:29] bernx : Due If position was about 0.8BTC and there was used x10, then ill correct
[2016-10-25 20:52:40] bernx : *all fine
[2016-10-25 20:52:53] BitMEX_Sam : This is the highest the funding has been for some time, see the history at https://www.bitmex.com/app/fundingHistory and click XBTUSD
[2016-10-25 20:53:04] BitMEX_Sam : It is normally much lower.
[2016-10-25 20:53:18] martinium : getting raped by the fees slowly
[2016-10-25 20:53:25] martinium : every 8 hours
[2016-10-25 20:53:26] martinium : lol
[2016-10-25 20:53:27] BitMEX_Greg : martinium: They are not fees
[2016-10-25 20:53:32] martinium : sorry the funding rate
[2016-10-25 20:53:34] BitMEX_Greg : They are swapped between longs and shorts
[2016-10-25 20:53:35] martinium : :-p
[2016-10-25 20:53:40] BitMEX_Greg : If you are short then you can earn it
[2016-10-25 20:53:43] martinium : yeah shorts are making a killing
[2016-10-25 20:53:51] sleger : well the price went up dummy
[2016-10-25 20:53:52] martinium : if they market stays sideways
[2016-10-25 20:53:58] martinium : the*
[2016-10-25 20:54:07] sleger : if the market is sideways then the funding becomes close to zero
[2016-10-25 20:54:53] BitMEX_Greg : Yes
[2016-10-25 20:55:07] BitMEX_Greg : I just calculated the funding over the past month, it has been a total of 5.44%
[2016-10-25 20:55:21] BitMEX_Greg : Whereas Bitcoin has moved up 8.7% in the same period
[2016-10-25 20:55:42] manchstr_untd1 : thats still like 60% of your gains gone to funding
[2016-10-25 20:55:51] sleger : so in summary you invented a system where noone can make money, except the exchange collecting fees ? ;) @BitMEX_Greg
[2016-10-25 20:57:02] manchstr_untd1 : plus, of course, fees and funding are always multiplied by leverage. so someone on 30x is gonna have a hell of a surprise when they think the fee was .37% and their equity goes down by over 10%... in eight hours....
[2016-10-25 20:57:35] BitMEX_Greg : manchstr_untd1: I'm always surprised by this point. I don't understand why people think they only pay fees on the margin amount
[2016-10-25 20:58:28] BitMEX_Greg : I don't think in any market, Bitcoin or otherwise, there is an exchange or broker where you pay fees not on the notional but on the amount you are putting up as margin, and if you are then the fee is going to be higher as a reflection of that
[2016-10-25 20:58:42] lockhedge : sleger: you aren't making any money on your 83k short ;)
[2016-10-25 20:59:21] manchstr_untd1 : im not suggesting that fees should be paid on the margin and not the notational. im saying 10% "fee" in equity at 30x for 8 hours of a position is rediculous. im sure we could all agree.
[2016-10-25 20:59:29] BitMEX_Greg : sleger: Traders can always exit before funding, there's always a market for scalps
[2016-10-25 20:59:57] BitMEX_Greg : manchstr_untd1: Funding is not a fee for a start.
[2016-10-25 21:00:05] sleger : manchstr_untd1: so is paying a foot-punching ball idiot millions per year
[2016-10-25 21:00:11] manchstr_untd1 : whether it goes to bitmex or shorts doesn'
[2016-10-25 21:00:15] manchstr_untd1 : doesnt matter to a long
[2016-10-25 21:00:47] martinium : it's expensive is all
[2016-10-25 21:00:50] sleger : well it does matter, cause you have the option to short, but you cant have the option to earn the taker trading fee
[2016-10-25 21:00:52] manchstr_untd1 : a 10% decrease in equity for 8 hours of position is a steep price to pay
[2016-10-25 21:00:54] habibi : at the end its sad that bitmex guys have good intentions ( i guess) and at the end all changes end up with more complication and problems to casual users
[2016-10-25 21:00:55] martinium : prohibitive for a long term short
[2016-10-25 21:01:01] martinium : long term long***
[2016-10-25 21:01:58] martinium : BitMEX_Greg: is the funding from other traders or an institution?
[2016-10-25 21:02:15] BitMEX_Greg : martinium: It's paid between longs and shorts
[2016-10-25 21:02:25] BitMEX_Greg : so shorts receive the funding if the funding is positive
[2016-10-25 21:02:30] martinium : then I think it should be a heck of a lot less
[2016-10-25 21:02:34] manchstr_untd1 : it would work better if it was at least dynamic. you pay the fee 8 hours after the TWAP for the price differential anyways. way too long of a lag IMO. should be much more frequent and use real-time rates, not rates from 1/3 a day ago
[2016-10-25 21:03:34] BitMEX_Greg : Well the 8 hour TWAP was introduced to avoid much higher funding spikes
[2016-10-25 21:03:38] BitMEX_Greg : as it suggests, its a TWAP
[2016-10-25 21:04:21] martinium : would dollar weighted make it much more expensive in your tests?
[2016-10-25 21:04:22] BitMEX_Greg : Could be 20%, 0%, 0%, 0%, for an average of 5%
[2016-10-25 21:04:25] lockhedge : BitMEX_Greg: but the TWAP is from hour -16 to hour -8, it's not a dynamic 8h TWAP
[2016-10-25 21:04:27] manchstr_untd1 : yeah which means im paying for the difference between spot and mark as it was a long time ago, not as it is. and much higher funding spikes are ignored if there's a cap anyways
[2016-10-25 21:05:03] BitMEX_Greg : lockhedge: Problem with a dynamic one is then you don't know what you are going to be paying or receiving
[2016-10-25 21:05:24] BitMEX_Greg : The cap would have to be higher if the time period was shorter @manchstr_untd1
[2016-10-25 21:05:55] manchstr_untd1 : the cap SHOULD be higher, at least if the goal of the fee is to encourage the spot price to move towards the mark price. as it is, when spot is 3% over mark, a .375% fee aint gonna do shit
[2016-10-25 21:05:58] manchstr_untd1 : as an example
[2016-10-25 21:08:23] manchstr_untd1 : either it should be calculated much more frequently and uncapped in such a way to actually be useful at controlling the spot price, or there should be some other way. i dont think its accomplising its goals as it is. but then again, this is also a volatile time. as you said, funding rates usually aren't high enough to be an issue
[2016-10-25 21:11:25] sleger : it is not so volatile yet
[2016-10-25 21:12:02] sleger : but didnt you say a few min ago " im saying 10% "fee" in equity at 30x for 8 hours of a position is rediculous. im sure we could all agree." and now you want even higher funding ?
[2016-10-25 21:17:50] BitMEX_Greg : Yes this is the problem, if we had more frequent, uncapped funding rates, then you could see it rise to an equivalent 20% or 30% daily funding
[2016-10-25 21:23:22] sleger : why is this a problem
[2016-10-25 21:23:23] wurstgelee : wtf
[2016-10-25 21:23:36] sleger : if this is what people want to pay to get leveraged long
[2016-10-25 21:23:46] wurstgelee : some people like to open a position and not care for days...
[2016-10-25 21:23:46] BitMEX_Greg : But the thing is they don't want to pay
[2016-10-25 21:23:59] sleger : then they wont buy and the price will track the index more
[2016-10-25 21:24:00] wurstgelee : thats imposible with high funding...
[2016-10-25 21:24:01] BitMEX_Greg : It's a balancing act
[2016-10-25 21:24:12] sleger : your duty is to keep the price close to the index
[2016-10-25 21:24:35] BitMEX_Greg : Yeah
[2016-10-25 21:24:52] sleger : you kind of made it clear when you completely changed the product without notice
[2016-10-25 21:24:59] sleger : it had to be done, no choice etc...
[2016-10-25 21:25:24] sleger : if 0.37% funding doesnt keep the swap close to index you have to increase it, one way or another
[2016-10-25 21:26:11] wurstgelee : are there actually people in this trollbox who prefer the current system over classic futures contracts with settlement?
[2016-10-25 21:26:14] wurstgelee : just curious
[2016-10-25 21:26:55] MrRGnome : Not me. I don't mind if mark price is way off index, so long as it present a trading opportunity and not some bullshit liquidations. Futures are a good example of what I like.
[2016-10-25 21:27:18] MrRGnome : But ideally I'd have swap too. I don't see why I wouldn't want both
[2016-10-25 21:27:52] lockhedge : tbh for market making i like the swap. so what others get is maybe more liquidity
[2016-10-25 21:27:56] BitMEX_Greg : We don't want to fragment liquidity too much
[2016-10-25 21:28:29] sleger : if you replace jpy futures with usd futures it doesnt add fragmentation
[2016-10-25 21:28:39] wurstgelee : so why do u chose xbjxbt over xbtusd ....
[2016-10-25 21:28:42] wurstgelee : ha :D
[2016-10-25 21:29:20] sleger : want the truth ? here it is ...
[2016-10-25 21:29:23] sleger : because they want new users that dont speak english so they dont have to answer stupid questions all day in chat
[2016-10-25 21:29:30] BitMEX_Greg : lol
[2016-10-25 21:29:32] MrRGnome : bahahaha
[2016-10-25 21:29:33] wurstgelee : haha
[2016-10-25 21:29:36] wurstgelee : :D :D :D
[2016-10-25 21:29:38] BitMEX_Greg : Nailed it
[2016-10-25 21:30:03] wurstgelee : RUBXBT next
[2016-10-25 21:30:31] MrRGnome : just keep creating arb opportunities and liquidity will create itself.
[2016-10-25 21:31:54] wurstgelee : seriously, not a single XBTUSD futures contract......thats sad :(
[2016-10-25 21:33:04] BitMEX_Greg : We are thinking about something, stay tuned folks
[2016-10-25 21:33:14] wurstgelee : it wouldnt spread liquidity, it would add the liquidity of those who want to trade futures and not swap ;)
[2016-10-25 21:36:02] MrRGnome : If you don't mind me asking, what percent of your userbase would you consider as high leverage traders at risk for liquidations?
[2016-10-25 21:36:46] MrRGnome : I assume you keep track of that kind of stuff to help you assess the durability of your insurance fund as well as your own general risk
[2016-10-25 21:36:49] BitMEX_Greg : wurstgelee: From discussions with market makers, they only have so much margin they want to apply to certain instruments. So while one instrument may have a deep book, another may not be quoted
[2016-10-25 21:37:08] BitMEX_Greg : MrRGnome: Not information I have unfortunately
[2016-10-25 21:37:22] MrRGnome : That's cool, thanks
[2016-10-25 21:38:24] micmix : if it's like other crypto markets, over 90% of users will be high-leverage gamblers
[2016-10-25 21:38:37] lockhedge : BitMEX_Greg: you could allow phantom liquidity with cross instrument OCO orders ;) market makers could post the same liquidity twice, if an order at XBTUSD gets filled, XBTUSD7D gets cancelled
[2016-10-25 21:38:41] sleger : in # of users, not in # of $
[2016-10-25 21:38:52] micmix : yep, in # of users
[2016-10-25 21:39:07] lockhedge : afaik a lot of traditional markets in europe allow phantom liquidity...
[2016-10-25 21:39:14] MrRGnome : that's a really important distinction.
[2016-10-25 21:39:44] MrRGnome : So I assume market makers are the minority but are responsible for most of the volume and aren't highly leveraged
[2016-10-25 21:40:04] MrRGnome : and chronic degenerate gamblers are the majority, getting wrecked by the makers
[2016-10-25 21:40:21] micmix : in % of $ gamblers are probably 20-30%
[2016-10-25 21:40:34] micmix : maybe a bit more
[2016-10-25 21:41:00] MrRGnome : You getting those stats from the woodchipper?
[2016-10-25 21:41:15] lockhedge : arbitrage and directional bots probably make more money than market makers
[2016-10-25 21:41:27] wurstgelee : u dont necessarily get rekt by makers tho. u just need to know when to gamble and when not
[2016-10-25 21:41:29] wurstgelee : ;)
[2016-10-25 21:41:38] habibi : micmix: hey, whats ur opinion about upcoming months in btc price?
[2016-10-25 21:42:33] micmix : I'm slightly long overall
[2016-10-25 21:44:20] micmix : lockhedge: arb not so much, it's difficult now for any substantial amount and counterparty risk too high
[2016-10-25 21:45:32] micmix : as an example see finex, price is way out and no one want to arb it
[2016-10-25 21:47:57] wurstgelee : admins?
[2016-10-25 21:47:59] wurstgelee : https://twitter.com/ZcashNews/status/791031838580043777
[2016-10-25 21:48:13] wurstgelee : there the first possible reference exchange for zcash
[2016-10-25 21:48:14] BitMEX_Greg : interesting
[2016-10-25 21:48:15] wurstgelee : ;)
[2016-10-25 21:48:46] wurstgelee : early pump due to nonexisting supply confirmed ;)
[2016-10-25 21:49:50] lockhedge : micmix: that's true, spot arb trading doesn't really work, but a wider definition like latency arbitrage or volatility trading
[2016-10-25 21:51:03] wurstgelee : https://twitter.com/ZcashNews/status/791031161791377408
[2016-10-25 21:51:13] wurstgelee : shapeshift too
[2016-10-25 21:51:43] wurstgelee : polo will follow soon. great times ahead ;)
[2016-10-25 21:57:07] manchstr_untd1 : up we go
[2016-10-25 21:58:55] Tetsuo : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdpqgqVdXWs
[2016-10-25 22:03:36] justinlooking : u hungry for xbt utd?
[2016-10-25 22:04:29] Tetsuo : hungry bitcoin wolves will soon be unchained
[2016-10-25 22:13:40] micmix : lockhedge: yeah, all my bots incorporate some of that
[2016-10-25 22:20:38] wurstgelee : go btc :)
[2016-10-25 22:26:31] mjones : short everything but ZEC and BTC
[2016-10-25 22:26:53] wurstgelee : pretty much
[2016-10-25 22:32:28] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 600 @ 656.75
[2016-10-25 22:32:28] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 1550 @ 656.44
[2016-10-25 22:32:33] wurstgelee : excellent......
[2016-10-25 22:32:35] wurstgelee : :D
[2016-10-25 22:32:47] BitMEX_Sam : Up it goes
[2016-10-25 22:32:52] wurstgelee : choo choo
[2016-10-25 22:32:57] habibi : Weeeee
[2016-10-25 22:34:31] manchstr_untd1 : up up and away
[2016-10-25 22:34:50] manchstr_untd1 : dangggggg
[2016-10-25 22:35:18] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 25 @ 658.49
[2016-10-25 22:35:18] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 10000 @ 658.45
[2016-10-25 22:39:43] mjones : xbj futures sucks. china goes up 2% and xbj on quoine goes up 0.25%
[2016-10-25 22:40:42] habibi : mjones: they reacting with lag sometimes, where u see negative, one can see opportunity
[2016-10-25 22:40:56] BitMEX_Sam : Yes, if they are slow to react that's a great scalp.
[2016-10-25 22:41:10] mjones : true. open a long and hope they catch up
[2016-10-25 22:41:53] habibi : if the price will keep run/stay above previous lvl u can be 100% basically its matter of time when they will
[2016-10-25 22:42:13] habibi : sure*
[2016-10-25 22:43:29] mjones : and then some china bearwhale has a few thousand BTC to knock the price back down
[2016-10-25 23:18:15] mjones : why not just get rid of the XBJ24H
[2016-10-25 23:18:35] mjones : improve liquidity on the 7D
[2016-10-25 23:18:58] sleger : MM is max short
[2016-10-25 23:20:40] lockhedge : sleger: which one and on what instrument?
[2016-10-25 23:21:20] sleger : what mjones said
[2016-10-25 23:21:35] miramm1115 : back on xbj24h if someone needs to long
[2016-10-25 23:21:36] wurstgelee : what mjones and sleger said
[2016-10-25 23:23:40] wurstgelee : lol, nice retrace ;)
[2016-10-25 23:23:43] mjones : china is dumping. see if 4535 CNY provides support or not
[2016-10-25 23:24:22] miramm1115 : price will stabilize @ $666.66
[2016-10-25 23:25:29] mjones : well wtf
[2016-10-25 23:25:36] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 3000 @ 656.17
[2016-10-25 23:25:38] wurstgelee : lolz
[2016-10-25 23:25:48] wurstgelee : loooool
[2016-10-25 23:25:58] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 3000 @ 653.19
[2016-10-25 23:26:02] sleger : lol
[2016-10-25 23:26:08] habibi : hehehe
[2016-10-25 23:26:11] wurstgelee : hahahahahaha
[2016-10-25 23:26:29] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 48500 @ 648.00 **MEGA-REKT** :boom:
[2016-10-25 23:26:29] REKT : Getting chopped to death is fun, everyone should try it!
[2016-10-25 23:26:29] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 8000 @ 647.37
[2016-10-25 23:26:29] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 20000 @ 648.53 **MEGA-REKT** :boom:
[2016-10-25 23:26:29] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 75000 @ 646.96 **EPIC REKT** :unamused: :confounded: :astonished:
[2016-10-25 23:26:32] wurstgelee : wtf
[2016-10-25 23:26:34] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 1000 @ 646.22
[2016-10-25 23:26:34] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 1000 @ 646.08
[2016-10-25 23:26:43] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 190000 @ 645.83 **REKTosaurus** :slot_machine: :moneybag: :fire:
[2016-10-25 23:26:43] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 8000 @ 645.55
[2016-10-25 23:27:14] wurstgelee : any casualties?
[2016-10-25 23:27:16] wurstgelee : ;)
[2016-10-25 23:27:22] wurstgelee : and now bounce for me baby
[2016-10-25 23:27:27] mjones : and xbj7d went up lol
[2016-10-25 23:28:07] manchstr_untd1 : lol wut
[2016-10-25 23:28:12] rapidtrades : who's dumping yo
[2016-10-25 23:28:15] miramm1115 : thanks you for your money :-)
[2016-10-25 23:28:39] mjones : lots of longs called on 0kcoin
[2016-10-25 23:28:39] wurstgelee : thanks for great entry ;)
[2016-10-25 23:30:06] sleger : XBTUSD 11618 11618 0 640.00
[2016-10-25 23:30:21] rapidtrades : what
[2016-10-25 23:30:27] mjones : more fun to trade on okcoin i think. easier to trade these kinds of moves
[2016-10-25 23:30:33] sleger : while at the same time : XBJ7D 5000 -5000 0 69561
[2016-10-25 23:31:07] bernx : what it was?
[2016-10-25 23:31:53] sleger : whis
[2016-10-25 23:32:00] mjones : xbj7d is all over the place
[2016-10-25 23:32:21] rapidtrades : ppl are stupid....we're still $15 below china
[2016-10-25 23:32:22] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBJ7D`: Sell 10000 @ 68502
[2016-10-25 23:32:27] wurstgelee : sleger: haha
[2016-10-25 23:32:29] wurstgelee : n1
[2016-10-25 23:32:31] sleger : MM is gonna lose a bunch here
[2016-10-25 23:32:32] wurstgelee : ;)
[2016-10-25 23:32:39] mjones : and i got rekted
[2016-10-25 23:32:57] lockhedge : sleger: which one and on what instrument? ;)
[2016-10-25 23:33:06] sleger : 7d
[2016-10-25 23:33:24] mjones : quoine is the worst exchange to pick for futures here
[2016-10-25 23:35:00] mjones : 6 minutes after okcoin dumped to its low quoine hits a new low
[2016-10-25 23:35:16] lockhedge : miramm1115: are you only mm'ing at 24h? great timing to enter the market again :)
[2016-10-25 23:35:50] ixess : i got liquidated from a wick and predicted btc perfectly, can i get a refund?
[2016-10-25 23:35:56] rapidtrades : how much are u guys making from MMing?
[2016-10-25 23:36:08] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 44700 @ 651.52 **MEGA-REKT** :boom:
[2016-10-25 23:36:24] sleger : few millions a year, you ?
[2016-10-25 23:36:33] rapidtrades : 0
[2016-10-25 23:37:13] sleger : long term is less work though
[2016-10-25 23:37:51] sleger : just work for a large fund, manage few hundred millions, if it works, cash in, if it doesnt start again elsewhere
[2016-10-25 23:37:53] miramm1115 : lockhedge: have small bots on all XBJ, trying it out for now
[2016-10-25 23:38:21] dasdfasdf : sleger: What do you MM?
[2016-10-25 23:38:24] sleger : miramm1115: you're the 200 ?
[2016-10-25 23:38:36] miramm1115 : yep
[2016-10-25 23:38:53] sleger : here i just traded with you
[2016-10-25 23:38:53] miramm1115 : 250 on quarterly
[2016-10-25 23:39:00] sleger : bought 200 @ 68932
[2016-10-25 23:39:27] miramm1115 : thanks :-)
[2016-10-25 23:41:57] REKT : Liquidated short on `ZECZ16`: Buy 1 @ 0.250354
[2016-10-25 23:43:41] wurstgelee : and so it begins
[2016-10-25 23:46:39] Tetsuo : XBJZ16 -25555 72200 XBJZ16 19060 71099 thx for instaprofit due to lag@japs
[2016-10-25 23:46:55] justinlooking : so any adl touches from that? or all liqs get bought?
[2016-10-25 23:47:23] mjones : not sure how you tell if adl occurred
[2016-10-25 23:48:02] REKT : Liquidated short on `ZECZ16`: Buy 1 @ 0.273750
[2016-10-25 23:48:07] lockhedge : rapidtrades: ytd ROE is 617.79% in BTC (924.8% in USD because i have an unhedged core long position), but started with a very small bot
[2016-10-25 23:48:09] justinlooking : yeh, ppl only complain when the adl is unfavorable..
[2016-10-25 23:51:15] sleger : lockhedge: % of days >0 ?
[2016-10-25 23:51:25] sleger : or annualized sharpe?
[2016-10-25 23:52:27] habibi : we hit 635 on that drop or chart is retarted on usd swap?
[2016-10-25 23:53:02] lockhedge : sleger: since January 8
[2016-10-25 23:53:25] sleger : habibi: yep look at recent trades
[2016-10-25 23:53:44] justinlooking : lowest fill i got was 640
[2016-10-25 23:54:07] sleger : justinlooking: same, 11k at 640
[2016-10-25 23:55:05] justinlooking : 634.38 10539 00:26:48 S is a nice one (not mine)
[2016-10-25 23:55:19] rapidtrades : lockhedge: yeah i'm aware of the % return...was more interesting in $$$....at what point do u start to hit a limit
[2016-10-25 23:55:40] sleger : depends what you trade
[2016-10-25 23:55:54] rapidtrades : like here for example...it's a very small pond and many seem to be trading with algos
[2016-10-25 23:56:01] sleger : on equities there's probably 5 shops that do more than 200m a year on high freq
[2016-10-25 23:56:18] rapidtrades : i meant crypto...i can't compete with that
[2016-10-25 23:56:36] sleger : no idea what the potential is, on bitmex if i had to throw a number maybe 500k, 1m a year
[2016-10-25 23:57:51] rapidtrades : that seems like a lot with all the competition
[2016-10-25 23:58:02] rapidtrades : half of u here seem to run MMs
[2016-10-25 23:58:06] justinlooking : moonnnn
[2016-10-25 23:58:11] sleger : well if you beat the competition and get all the good trades
[2016-10-25 23:58:43] rapidtrades : great, thanks
[2016-10-25 23:58:56] rapidtrades : any shitty MMers? how much are u pulling in
[2016-10-25 23:59:00] sleger : so sum of all good algos is probably what im saying
[2016-10-25 23:59:14] sleger : oh yeah im sure a lot try and fail and lose money
[2016-10-26 00:04:22] justinlooking : u can amend orders now??
[2016-10-26 00:04:36] justinlooking : via ui i mean
[2016-10-26 00:05:10] sleger : justinlooking: only on testnet. Ohhh you've been trading on testnet the all time. ahhahahahahhahah
[2016-10-26 00:05:20] justinlooking : grr
[2016-10-26 00:05:48] mjones : eth big buy
[2016-10-26 00:07:38] justinlooking : u cannot see hover qty/price in active orders sleger?
[2016-10-26 00:08:05] justinlooking : looks like you can amend direction as qty has sign
[2016-10-26 00:09:02] sleger : no but i never refresh the web page :p
[2016-10-26 00:09:56] sleger : but look at annoucements
[2016-10-26 00:10:08] justinlooking : nah, cannot change buy to sell, sell to buy...
[2016-10-26 00:10:15] justinlooking : at least as far i can tell
[2016-10-26 00:11:26] justinlooking : derp
[2016-10-26 00:14:36] lockhedge : strange flash crashes at Bitstamp and BTCC before the actual crash https://tradeblock.com/markets/btcc/xbt-cny/1m/ https://tradeblock.com/markets/stmp/xbt-usd/1m/
[2016-10-26 00:19:03] rapidtrades : lockhedge: what's so strange about it
[2016-10-26 00:20:23] lockhedge : looks like somebody was trying were hard to get longs liquidated (e.g. okc futures and here)
[2016-10-26 00:20:31] lockhedge : very hard
[2016-10-26 00:34:05] laisee : becos they know quick pumps draw in naive traders taking positions with leverage
[2016-10-26 00:35:47] laisee : a.k.a. krill
[2016-10-26 00:39:01] Rado : what was the big dip on XBTUSD?
[2016-10-26 00:39:17] Mm bot : Whale mating season
[2016-10-26 00:40:31] rapidtrades : Rado: the jews
[2016-10-26 00:41:13] Rado : was the dump on all exchanges?
[2016-10-26 00:42:08] Rado : looks like it
[2016-10-26 00:42:10] laisee : only the good ones ... and it was done by Goldman $achs, ofc.
[2016-10-26 00:42:50] Rado : it was on all I checked
[2016-10-26 00:42:53] Rado : about 10
[2016-10-26 00:43:13] Rado : Bitstamp has bigger volume than Bitfinex for a second day
[2016-10-26 00:46:03] lockhedge : Rado: look at the first crash at Bitstamp at 21:46 UTC and the second on BTCC at 0:04 UTC, these were isolated
[2016-10-26 00:48:28] Rado : lockhedge: I don't see this
[2016-10-26 00:48:42] Rado : at the same time of BTCC crash all other echanges have it as well
[2016-10-26 00:48:46] Rado : exchanges
[2016-10-26 00:49:03] lockhedge : Rado: https://tradeblock.com/markets/stmp/xbt-usd/1m/
[2016-10-26 00:49:03] Rado : I wish there was a chart that display all exchanges at once
[2016-10-26 00:52:20] lockhedge : if the timestamps that tradeblock use are correct, the third crash was initiated at okc cny at 0:21 UTC
[2016-10-26 00:54:49] Rado : right
[2016-10-26 00:58:22] lockhedge : and 0:15 UTC on okc futures....
[2016-10-26 00:59:05] lockhedge : sorry, wrong chart
[2016-10-26 01:09:55] Rado : is it time to short ZEC yet?
[2016-10-26 01:12:11] habibi : yes please Rado, how much u want to short i will put a bid for u
[2016-10-26 01:12:38] Rado : habibi: 50
[2016-10-26 01:12:49] habibi : Rado: u welcome
[2016-10-26 01:12:52] Rado : wow
[2016-10-26 01:12:55] Rado : you did
[2016-10-26 01:12:56] Rado : :-)
[2016-10-26 01:13:05] Rado : I want to short at 0.27999
[2016-10-26 01:13:14] sleger : me too
[2016-10-26 01:13:14] Rado : not 0.24
[2016-10-26 01:13:33] sleger : and at 0.5
[2016-10-26 01:13:39] Rado : sleger: yep
[2016-10-26 01:13:40] habibi : Rado: so put there ur asks :)
[2016-10-26 01:13:47] Rado : I will avarage up if it gets there
[2016-10-26 01:14:02] sleger : and i will sell your rekt
[2016-10-26 01:14:03] Rado : will be back after dinner
[2016-10-26 01:14:20] Rado : sleger: not going to get rekt
[2016-10-26 01:14:28] Rado : I have a lot of BTC
[2016-10-26 01:14:31] Rado : mu ha ha
[2016-10-26 01:14:36] Rado : brb
[2016-10-26 01:16:05] habibi : sleger: problem with this liquidity is rekt becoming adled too fast to catch it sometimes
[2016-10-26 01:17:33] aethlios : I am selling 50 zcash 0.35
[2016-10-26 01:17:52] sleger : aethlios: im selling them at 0.34
[2016-10-26 01:18:47] sleger : i sold over 100 at 0.11 average ... i figured it was better to let it go rekt and resell later on
[2016-10-26 01:19:05] aethlios : I wll keep it small because crazy people could get it to 1, just to have the ethical satisfaction of a good trade.
[2016-10-26 01:19:19] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 82835 @ 657.23 **EPIC REKT** :unamused: :confounded: :astonished:
[2016-10-26 01:20:11] aethlios : this adl is fast to clear liquidations. I like it.
[2016-10-26 01:20:21] sleger : it wasnt adl
[2016-10-26 01:20:54] sleger : it bought up to 658.90 then was sold into
[2016-10-26 01:21:42] aethlios : zcash bulls should know that btc goes up, so zecusd becomes more expensive, and not many stupid to keep that 0.3 price for many days.
[2016-10-26 01:22:23] habibi : aethlios: don't teach bulls how to play when u are scared bear :p
[2016-10-26 01:23:07] habibi : and i would like to reminder ur awsome idea " aethlios : bitmex could place a cap at 0.5, and remove the cap 1 week prior to expiration. so more people will trade and short it."
[2016-10-26 01:23:26] aethlios : habibi: I am not scared, just afraid of manipulation and driving up price to margin call shorts, so I will keep it amall to not care if you go the price to 2 btc.
[2016-10-26 01:24:06] sleger : habibi: there is already a cap there, implied by limit up, so its not such a stupid idea, its just a different (lower) value of limit up
[2016-10-26 01:25:44] aethlios : a cap to 0.5 or 1 btc is an excellent idea, removed 1 week prior to expiration, so if spot holds above the cap then longs can profit more. The cap will increase volume, liquidity and avoid manipulation to margin call shorts.
[2016-10-26 01:26:05] habibi : why 0.5 not 5
[2016-10-26 01:26:10] habibi : or 500?
[2016-10-26 01:26:21] sleger : because thats double the current price
[2016-10-26 01:26:31] sleger : 0< 0.25 < 0.5
[2016-10-26 01:26:38] sleger : symetry
[2016-10-26 01:26:43] habibi : awsome :)
[2016-10-26 01:27:34] aethlios : because no logic to think zcash is more valuable to btc, also a tighter range 0 to 1 btc cap will make more to short. with 0.5 cap I could open 250 short, now I will open only 50.
[2016-10-26 01:27:38] sleger : no not awesome, just makes sense
[2016-10-26 01:27:47] habibi : aethlios: could u send ur cv to Arthur so he can decide whether take u to bitmex team as a strategy guy ?
[2016-10-26 01:28:17] aethlios : habibi: I stopped working for other people 4 years ago.
[2016-10-26 01:28:29] rapidtrades : I herd buttfinex needs a new strategy guy
[2016-10-26 01:28:33] sleger : so he's not gonna work for a CEO
[2016-10-26 01:28:39] habibi : aethlios: ffs, if shorts would not take risk then noone go long on other side and the market would be dead near that idea
[2016-10-26 01:28:48] rapidtrades : Task one: Lose all customers money
[2016-10-26 01:29:00] aethlios : habibi: why wall street stops trading for a few hours if price plunges more than x%?? are they stupid??
[2016-10-26 01:29:02] habibi : task two: wait for rapidtrades sue
[2016-10-26 01:29:15] rapidtrades : asshole
[2016-10-26 01:29:22] sleger : "task" three : wait few more years
[2016-10-26 01:29:32] rapidtrades : well the court system is slow
[2016-10-26 01:29:52] sleger : aethlios: no but habibi has reached another level
[2016-10-26 01:30:20] habibi : aethlios: its the same as upper limit?
[2016-10-26 01:30:33] habibi : and again did u read Arthur post?
[2016-10-26 01:31:03] sleger : urrrr masterrrrrrr
[2016-10-26 01:31:36] aethlios : since we don't have a spot to follow, there should be a cap to 1 btc price. set the burdens until the spot starts. protect shorts from manipulators and running up the book.
[2016-10-26 01:31:52] habibi : if u are bearish u will find stuff for ur sentiment, if u bullish u will do the same, simple.
[2016-10-26 01:32:12] habibi : how about longers? no protection at all?
[2016-10-26 01:32:21] habibi : u can protect urself with fixed leverage ffs
[2016-10-26 01:32:35] sleger : longers are limited by no <0 price
[2016-10-26 01:33:02] aethlios : habibi: shorts can lose 10 times their money if someone runns the price to 2.5 btc now.
[2016-10-26 01:33:09] habibi : shorters are limited with total collateral on cross :)
[2016-10-26 01:33:36] habibi : aethlios: so thats ur risk right? deal with it
[2016-10-26 01:33:49] sleger : aethlios: forget it, he spent all his brain cells writing that last sentence, wait 12 hours until he recharges now
[2016-10-26 01:33:50] aethlios : the contract has no liquidity bevause no spot to follow nad no cap, so all afraid to short.
[2016-10-26 01:36:19] habibi : ah guys, i lost 10 btc shorting zcash at first days/weeks, but i can admit that it was my fault not manipulator's one, sleger aethlios give market possibility to find its own price here
[2016-10-26 01:36:45] sleger : i lost 15btc it was my fault as well
[2016-10-26 01:36:51] sleger : but still aethlios is right
[2016-10-26 01:37:29] sleger : i wont offer supply again on the offer, but if there was a cap at 0.5 for instance until its liquid enough on polo then i would
[2016-10-26 01:37:47] habibi : of course... coz then it would be risk free short in my opinion
[2016-10-26 01:38:04] sleger : but you're all wasting your time, volume is low bitmex doesnt care for now
[2016-10-26 01:38:22] habibi : yep, good that bittrex is adding it since day one
[2016-10-26 01:40:49] aethlios : do you see the order book, just 147 zcash to 1 btc price, a whale can margin call all.
[2016-10-26 01:41:03] sleger : theres limit up
[2016-10-26 01:41:54] aethlios : the higher the price goes the thinner the book, no one touches then.
[2016-10-26 01:42:21] aethlios : sleger: limit up changes every 8 hours.
[2016-10-26 01:43:40] XXXX : sleger: ZEC shorts are still risky with c cap in place. because you cant have a cap after it has been on exchange like bittrex or polo for more than 24 hrs. And who says price on polo wont go past 1 BTC? Bitmex traders dont price ZEC based on its price on DEC30, they are basing its price on what will happen next week once ZEC is on exchange and it will surely shoot up and possibly stay parity with bitcoin for few days if not weeks.
[2016-10-26 01:45:19] sleger : aethlios: yes but that avoids easy manipulation
[2016-10-26 01:45:39] sleger : XXXX: yes, and thats why im advocating for a cap until liquidity on exchange is large enough
[2016-10-26 01:46:04] aethlios : sleger: it helps, gives you time to bring more funds or close position.
[2016-10-26 01:46:25] XXXX : sleger: but who decides the definition of "large enough liquidity"?
[2016-10-26 01:46:26] sleger : aethlios: no it mostly avoids one large market buy to liquidate everyone
[2016-10-26 01:46:37] sleger : XXXX: the contract specs
[2016-10-26 01:47:02] sleger : write until total ask size > X, or volume 24h is > Y for 3 days or .....
[2016-10-26 01:47:26] XXXX : sleger: then those who are long wont be happy. that will call it market manipulation. There is no middle way except free market that it is now.
[2016-10-26 01:47:27] laisee : position limits on ZEC?
[2016-10-26 01:47:49] aethlios : amother 2 days left, will reach parity at day 1? let's see how crazy people are...
[2016-10-26 01:47:49] sleger : XXXX: yes put it in specs when you list the contract
[2016-10-26 01:47:58] sleger : laisee: no cause you can have as many accounts as you want
[2016-10-26 01:48:56] sleger : XXXX: nobody said you cant have free market, aethlios just explained it would trade more/have more liquidity if the rules were better, and he is right.
[2016-10-26 01:49:34] laisee : sleger: make the limit small enough and it'll be too much hassle to open accounts.
[2016-10-26 01:49:50] sleger : thats bad thinking
[2016-10-26 01:50:15] sleger : make the rules not arbitrageable and people wont
[2016-10-26 01:50:24] laisee : well, adding "rules" in free market isn't much better IMO
[2016-10-26 01:51:07] sleger : the current contract isnt arbitrageable thats not what i said, it might just not be optimal for volume/liquidity/price discovery
[2016-10-26 01:51:13] laisee : it's hard to be a little bit regulated ... one man's rule is another man maipulation
[2016-10-26 01:51:27] XXXX : sleger: @aethlios why are you hell bent upon shorting ZEC. We all know there will be a pump first then there will be dump. Why not go long for pump now and when the price is right and market is liquid enough go short then.