This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2016-10-26 01:51:49] sleger : XXXX: for one person that buys here one has to sell
[2016-10-26 01:51:59] sleger : that's how futures work, so your comment is nonsense
[2016-10-26 01:52:08] laisee : XXXX: under current setup the ADL makes a difference in behavior between short/long trades
[2016-10-26 01:52:40] aethlios : XXXX: you have to build position when there are buyers, not want to short when all want to do the same.
[2016-10-26 01:53:33] sleger : anyways this discussion is becoming stupid with too many people having no idea what they're saying im leaving
[2016-10-26 01:55:17] laisee : bye, sledger
[2016-10-26 01:57:06] XXXX : sleger: Sorry you made loss on your short but hey thats free market. you knew the rules before you went short. nothing has changed between you opened the position and you were liquidated. And yup too many people who made profit on long have no idea what they are saying.
[2016-10-26 01:59:18] lockhedge : sleger got rekt on ZEC futures?
[2016-10-26 01:59:50] habibi : not rekt, 15 btc loss, ffs people loss money here all the time normal thing
[2016-10-26 02:01:14] ixess : that crazy bitstamp wick liquidated my long while price was going up, is there any solution to opposite direction wicks taking people out?
[2016-10-26 02:01:30] Rado : cap doesn't make sense guys
[2016-10-26 02:01:32] XXXX : lockhedge: he sold 100 ZEC at 0.11 avg price. he probably got liquidated around 0.25 if he made a loss of 15 BTC.
[2016-10-26 02:01:51] Rado : you say a big buy can rekt all shorts, but that is valid for longs as well
[2016-10-26 02:02:19] Rado : if you buy a lot of zcash to rekt longs I can do exactly the same after your buy and short a lot of them to rekt your long
[2016-10-26 02:02:25] Rado : so it goes both ways
[2016-10-26 02:02:51] Rado : I meant rekt shorts
[2016-10-26 02:03:12] Rado : market is market regardless of liquidity
[2016-10-26 02:03:22] Rado : you play with what is avaialble
[2016-10-26 02:04:04] Rado : it's all about where do you think the price will be next
[2016-10-26 02:04:34] Rado : for example habibi wants to get long 50 at 0.24
[2016-10-26 02:04:53] Rado : I could easily rekt her by shorting all the way down to 0.12
[2016-10-26 02:05:17] Rado : but why would I do that if I don't think it's a good trade to short?
[2016-10-26 02:05:27] lockhedge : XXXX: he probably uses Cross margin or less than 1x
[2016-10-26 02:05:36] zanza : https://twitter.com/XiaomiMY/status/790811693819367424
[2016-10-26 02:06:21] habibi : Rado: http://prntscr.com/cyzzrb
[2016-10-26 02:06:58] habibi : opposite guy to that positions tried to rekt shorts, when the upper 1 bid got filled he got liquidated for 547 zec
[2016-10-26 02:07:14] habibi : so again, good luck
[2016-10-26 02:07:44] Rado : habibi: but that's exactly it
[2016-10-26 02:07:53] Rado : he did the wrong trade
[2016-10-26 02:08:02] Rado : he went against the other traders
[2016-10-26 02:08:20] Rado : you will always get rekt if you are going in the wrong direction
[2016-10-26 02:08:56] Rado : it's like saying why did a get rekt when I shorted BTC at 600
[2016-10-26 02:09:03] Rado : well because it went up to $650
[2016-10-26 02:09:06] zanza : http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/10/xiaomi-blows-minds-with-the-mi-mix-a-nearly-bezel-less-smartphone/
[2016-10-26 02:09:17] Rado : did someone manipulated the price up to 650?
[2016-10-26 02:10:11] Rado : zanza: that's a nice looking phone
[2016-10-26 02:10:42] zanza : only $5-600 also
[2016-10-26 02:10:46] zanza : less than 1 bitcoin!
[2016-10-26 02:25:14] omicron : late to the party. wtf happened to bitcoin? big fake moon launch followed by dumping
[2016-10-26 02:32:45] billyboy402 : NASA rocket launch ... then it blew up
[2016-10-26 02:33:39] omicron : that wick !! its bigger than my-
[2016-10-26 02:40:14] aethlios : it's a whales wick.
[2016-10-26 02:40:57] Gr33d : So I've been told ;)
[2016-10-26 04:00:22] REKT : Liquidated short on `ZECZ16`: Buy 3 @ 0.285810
[2016-10-26 04:00:22] REKT : Liquidated short on `ZECZ16`: Buy 2 @ 0.283687
[2016-10-26 04:00:47] REKT : Liquidated short on `ZECZ16`: Buy 3 @ 0.331333
[2016-10-26 04:00:47] REKT : Liquidated short on `ZECZ16`: Buy 48 @ 0.321694
[2016-10-26 04:00:48] REKT : Liquidated short on `ZECZ16`: Buy 1 @ 0.312067
[2016-10-26 04:04:39] aethlios : zcash new limit up
[2016-10-26 04:20:24] chromaticcr1 : this is fun
[2016-10-26 04:35:11] QuantFocus : wait...
[2016-10-26 04:35:31] QuantFocus : did that liquidation just force the price up to .34, or was that legit market movement?
[2016-10-26 04:39:22] jose : looks like liquidation moved the price from 0.28 to 0.34
[2016-10-26 04:41:49] QuantFocus : pretty ambitious price to be buying at for anyone long, imo
[2016-10-26 04:41:55] QuantFocus : despite the limited initial supply
[2016-10-26 04:52:38] aethlios : longs feel still cheap.
[2016-10-26 04:53:27] QuantFocus : i hope so, cause i'm going to mine the shit out of that coin
[2016-10-26 05:18:20] laisee : ZEC is gonna be fun from all angles.
[2016-10-26 05:21:20] XXXX : It is safer to buy XZC than ZEC. It aint no average shitcoin. some big backers on XZC too.
[2016-10-26 05:23:10] laisee : SHT is the s**t
[2016-10-26 05:23:19] aethlios : what is xzc? best is to buy monero 0.0071 and short zec.
[2016-10-26 05:26:16] XXXX : aethlios: XZC is Zerocoin. it is based on the original zerocoin protocol (the one without Zsnark). I heard Roger ver is one of the backer of XZC. Might get pumped enormously due to ZEC hype.
[2016-10-26 05:27:30] BitMEX_Sam : It has also been intentionally marketed to confuse itself with Zcash
[2016-10-26 05:28:02] aethlios : XXXX: https://zcoin.tech/
[2016-10-26 05:28:10] aethlios : what the web site?
[2016-10-26 05:28:23] XXXX : aethlios: yup.
[2016-10-26 05:28:36] BitMEX_Sam : It also had a small army of shills that invaded the Zcash Slack, forums, and articles to promote Zerocoin
[2016-10-26 05:28:37] XXXX : aethlios: thats the one.
[2016-10-26 05:28:44] BitMEX_Sam : Yet that project hadn't had a commit in many months
[2016-10-26 05:28:45] aethlios : XXXX: thanks
[2016-10-26 05:29:29] QuantFocus : bitcoin blockchain, if you want to go ahead and process transactions, that'd be great
[2016-10-26 05:30:29] laisee : ... maybe blockchain will have to come in on the weekend, again ...
[2016-10-26 05:30:46] aethlios : 0.005 now at bittrex
[2016-10-26 05:30:49] BitMEX_Sam : note, Zcoin was previously Moneta if you're looking for historical references.
[2016-10-26 05:30:50] XXXX : BitMEX_Sam: Its crypto. 99% of the coins are shitcoins. But what matters is whether you are able to get in the left side of curve and exit on the right side. I am long on XZC for next few weeks.
[2016-10-26 05:31:01] QuantFocus : yea well, maybe if he got his work done during the week he wouldn't have to @laisee
[2016-10-26 05:31:07] aethlios : but started mining from zero
[2016-10-26 05:31:12] BitMEX_Sam : I agree that from a traders' perspective it is just another factor in the equation
[2016-10-26 05:31:21] QuantFocus : BitMEX_Sam: moneta verde?
[2016-10-26 05:31:37] BitMEX_Sam : http://moneta.cash
[2016-10-26 05:31:41] BitMEX_Sam : Redirects now.
[2016-10-26 05:31:42] XXXX : QuantFocus: no just moneta which wasnt launched apparantly
[2016-10-26 05:31:53] QuantFocus : ah
[2016-10-26 05:32:05] QuantFocus : so unrelated to the cryptonote token?
[2016-10-26 05:32:30] BitMEX_Sam : See also Vertcoin which was another alt done by the same team in 13
[2016-10-26 05:32:36] BitMEX_Sam : Was a P&D from my understanding
[2016-10-26 05:32:44] QuantFocus : ehhh
[2016-10-26 05:32:52] QuantFocus : vert had a unique algo...at the time
[2016-10-26 05:33:22] QuantFocus : minor variations. but that was innovative for coin launches in that 'era'
[2016-10-26 05:33:37] miramm1115 : I remember vertcoin, was very well done p&d
[2016-10-26 05:34:52] QuantFocus : went 143x on Polo between April and June last year
[2016-10-26 05:34:54] QuantFocus : hahah, crazy
[2016-10-26 05:34:54] XXXX : miramm1115: Yup XZC is from the same dev team but with Roger Ver's backing this time. XZC will be a pump and dump too so caution is advised.
[2016-10-26 05:35:03] miramm1115 : but they did some development for vertcoin, not just cloned bitcoin
[2016-10-26 05:36:34] BitMEX_Sam : Well, it was forked from litecoin
[2016-10-26 05:36:38] BitMEX_Sam : Which was forked from bitcoin
[2016-10-26 05:36:58] miramm1115 : vertminer was the first Scrypt-Adaptive-N miner afaik
[2016-10-26 05:37:50] zanza : `Important Changes - Altcoin Derivative Products`
[2016-10-26 05:38:26] miramm1115 : of course all alts in 2013 were forked from bitcoin ;-)
[2016-10-26 05:39:14] laisee : which was the lover-child of hashcash & digicash
[2016-10-26 05:39:16] aethlios : monero is not based on btc
[2016-10-26 05:39:44] jose : NXT was not based on bitcoin
[2016-10-26 05:41:01] miramm1115 : yep, nxt was different
[2016-10-26 05:45:25] miramm1115 : excellent move switching alts to 7d futures
[2016-10-26 05:47:16] jordanbitfort : why does eth expire now
[2016-10-26 05:50:34] BitMEX_Arthur : jordanbitfort: The swap will behave as normal, and will expire on Nov 4th
[2016-10-26 05:51:05] zanza : now people can complain about futures premium instead of funding premium
[2016-10-26 05:51:30] jose : is eth going to be a futures contract ?
[2016-10-26 05:53:19] BitMEX_Arthur : zanza: Truth but basis decay is just better optics
[2016-10-26 05:53:26] BitMEX_Arthur : For the alts which have high funding rates for good reason
[2016-10-26 05:53:46] BitMEX_Arthur : jose: yes on Nov 4 12 UTC `ETHXBT` will expire and be replaced with `ETH7D`
[2016-10-26 05:53:53] zanza : yeah people will be less likely to think "omg Bitmex stealing mah monies!"
[2016-10-26 06:02:35] BitMEX_Arthur : Yep
[2016-10-26 06:02:42] BitMEX_Arthur : We have another halloween treat for you guys
[2016-10-26 06:02:47] BitMEX_Arthur : more to come on that soon
[2016-10-26 06:03:14] QuantFocus : pillow cases full of candy?
[2016-10-26 06:07:02] QuantFocus : guess not
[2016-10-26 06:13:20] Velancry : On mobile the bar which contain the funding rate is gone @BitMEX_Arthur
[2016-10-26 06:14:33] Velancry : Nvm just found it...
[2016-10-26 06:17:07] BitMEX_Arthur : For those of you who are market makers, please check out https://testnet.bitmex.com/app/trade/XBTZ16
[2016-10-26 06:17:14] BitMEX_Arthur : You might just like it
[2016-10-26 06:19:59] QuantFocus : omg, yay
[2016-10-26 06:20:09] QuantFocus : way better than candy. i'm sorry king @BitMEX_Arthur
[2016-10-26 06:20:26] QuantFocus : do your friends call you king arthur?
[2016-10-26 06:22:14] lockhedge : BitMEX_Arthur: great news, although monthly quantos are hard to market make at a reasonable spread
[2016-10-26 06:22:55] BitMEX_Arthur : lockhedge: We will be changing that to inverse now
[2016-10-26 06:23:20] BitMEX_Arthur : It will be an inverse contract worth 1 USD same as `XBTUSD`
[2016-10-26 06:23:52] lockhedge : nice
[2016-10-26 06:25:38] jose : is it going to replace the perpetual swap ?
[2016-10-26 06:27:37] BitMEX_Arthur : jose: No
[2016-10-26 06:53:24] miramm1115 : excellent news, I'm excited about XBTZ16!
[2016-10-26 06:55:20] lockhedge : BitMEX_Arthur: will it really be 100x as on testnet?
[2016-10-26 06:55:35] Mm bot : Great news, now you guys have to do that illiquid withdraw. More than once a day would be good. I can sell on OKCoin to load up my plastic BTC card and spent in store
[2016-10-26 07:04:30] BitMEX_Arthur : lockhedge: yes it will be 100x
[2016-10-26 07:56:04] wurstgelee : YAY! \o/
[2016-10-26 07:56:11] wurstgelee : also ZEC.... :D
[2016-10-26 08:08:03] justinlooking : how long after launch until zec sees it first spot trade anywhere?
[2016-10-26 08:08:31] BitMEX_Arthur : justinlooking: I think it will be longer than people think, many miners will hoard supply i bet
[2016-10-26 08:12:12] wurstgelee : BitMEX_Arthur: trex already confirmed listing
[2016-10-26 08:12:19] wurstgelee : same for shapeshift
[2016-10-26 08:12:29] billyboy402 : BitMEX_Arthur: https://www.bitmex.com/app/quantoVsInverse is that libnk broken
[2016-10-26 08:13:57] wurstgelee : BitMEX_Arthur: is there any criteria after when u switch marking from lastPrice? would for example bittrex be enough if polo doesnt list in the first weeks?
[2016-10-26 08:14:23] wurstgelee : *which
[2016-10-26 08:15:00] wurstgelee : for example "at least 1 exchange out of the following..." something like that
[2016-10-26 08:15:23] j8 : if it wasn't last price it would be impact mid price, which isn't that different really
[2016-10-26 08:15:40] BitMEX_Arthur : billyboy402: https://blog.bitmex.com/xbt-vs-xbu-chain/
[2016-10-26 08:15:52] BitMEX_Arthur : `XBTZ16` will be inverse with one contract worth 1 USD of Bitcoin
[2016-10-26 08:15:58] BitMEX_Arthur : Testnet will be fixed by tonight
[2016-10-26 08:16:17] BitMEX_Arthur : wurstgelee: It is at our discretion
[2016-10-26 08:16:27] BitMEX_Arthur : I don't have anything more concrete than that for you
[2016-10-26 08:16:32] BitMEX_Arthur : we aim to make a decision by Dec 1
[2016-10-26 08:16:33] wurstgelee : BitMEX_Arthur: so it will be a surprise? :D
[2016-10-26 08:16:40] billyboy402 : oh you change it , there use to be a good link you posted explain that Quonto is better for bull and inves better for Bears
[2016-10-26 08:16:52] BitMEX_Arthur : I think it will be quite obvious who the market leader on spot trading is one month in
[2016-10-26 08:16:59] wurstgelee : it is
[2016-10-26 08:17:13] wurstgelee : if polo lists early
[2016-10-26 08:17:14] wurstgelee : ;)
[2016-10-26 08:17:32] BitMEX_Arthur : If Polo listed ETC, i can't see why they wouldn't add ZEC right out of the gate
[2016-10-26 08:17:38] BitMEX_Arthur : They need to keep their top spot
[2016-10-26 08:17:51] wurstgelee : especially with trex relaunch around the corner
[2016-10-26 08:17:54] wurstgelee : with margin trading
[2016-10-26 08:17:55] BitMEX_Arthur : their early adoption of ETH is what made them who they are today
[2016-10-26 08:18:00] wurstgelee : yep
[2016-10-26 08:18:46] wurstgelee : i was wondering ewhat would happen if trex listed on day 1, but polo doesnt. if marking would be switched there immediately ;)
[2016-10-26 08:19:50] BitMEX_Arthur : wurstgelee: There won't be any supply to buy for a few weeks i imagine, if i was a miner i would hoard all my coins and force a spike
[2016-10-26 08:20:13] BitMEX_Arthur : Or I would start hitting bids on `ZECZ16` :smirk:
[2016-10-26 08:20:39] wurstgelee : probably. some wont do that tho which would make it trade with almost no supply and probably crazy swings at first
[2016-10-26 08:20:41] wurstgelee : i assume
[2016-10-26 08:21:18] wurstgelee : ZECZ16?
[2016-10-26 08:21:26] wurstgelee : i did miss something i guess
[2016-10-26 08:21:49] wurstgelee : oh lol
[2016-10-26 08:21:50] wurstgelee : nvm
[2016-10-26 08:21:51] wurstgelee : its early
[2016-10-26 08:22:04] wurstgelee : thats been taken care of aa while ago.. ;)
[2016-10-26 08:37:15] cash : 什么意思
[2016-10-26 08:38:36] RocketScience : 比特幣
[2016-10-26 09:13:02] habibi : Quantos will be back, nice
[2016-10-26 09:15:37] BitMEX_Arthur : habibi: it won't be a quanto
[2016-10-26 09:16:00] BitMEX_Arthur : each contract will be with 1 USD of Bitcoin. It's incorrect on Testnet right now
[2016-10-26 09:16:09] BitMEX_Arthur : that will be corrected tonight
[2016-10-26 09:16:56] habibi : ok, let's wait and see then how it will works
[2016-10-26 09:45:41] wurstgelee : When will it go live?
[2016-10-26 10:00:21] Venuji : BitMEX_Arthur: hi
[2016-10-26 10:06:37] BitMEX_Arthur : Venuji: Hi
[2016-10-26 10:06:46] BitMEX_Arthur : wurstgelee: Maybe tonight maybe a few days no firm ETA yet
[2016-10-26 10:10:07] wurstgelee : thanks
[2016-10-26 10:43:35] REKT : Liquidated short on `LSKXBT`: Buy 999 @ 0.000301
[2016-10-26 10:48:52] REKT : Liquidated short on `LSKXBT`: Buy 300 @ 0.000307
[2016-10-26 10:51:09] jung1 : zcash will be huge
[2016-10-26 10:52:10] habibi : fck, ^^ is first signal to actually get bearish on zcash :/
[2016-10-26 10:53:59] jrr2292 : hi there
[2016-10-26 10:54:09] jrr2292 : do you guys have any withdrawal limits?
[2016-10-26 10:54:24] jrr2292 : for unverified customers?
[2016-10-26 10:54:37] jung1 : nope
[2016-10-26 10:54:39] dasdfasdf : no such thing as verified
[2016-10-26 10:54:47] jrr2292 : ah right
[2016-10-26 10:54:47] jung1 : habibi: you are welcome
[2016-10-26 10:56:33] jung1 : btw you are bullish or bearish on btc?
[2016-10-26 10:58:33] habibi : no position, heart is saying up but mind is bearish, we will see
[2016-10-26 11:07:42] Kalman : habibi: protect your purchasing power stay always long btc ;)
[2016-10-26 11:16:55] penisgriffen : trying to understand ZEC - the contract is the bet?
[2016-10-26 11:17:54] jung1 : its futures contracts as all here
[2016-10-26 11:18:03] jung1 : yes its bet between traders
[2016-10-26 11:18:07] penisgriffen : yeah but there is no underlying asset
[2016-10-26 11:18:10] penisgriffen : ok
[2016-10-26 11:18:21] jung1 : as all here
[2016-10-26 11:18:28] Kalman : penisgriffen: its the bet where the price of zec will be at dec 30
[2016-10-26 11:18:31] jung1 : you can deposit here only btc
[2016-10-26 11:18:46] jung1 : all other altcoins work same
[2016-10-26 11:18:48] Kalman : expressed in btc
[2016-10-26 11:18:49] jung1 : here
[2016-10-26 11:18:57] jung1 : we are trend setters
[2016-10-26 11:19:09] jung1 : <put sunglasses on>
[2016-10-26 11:19:17] penisgriffen : so the bet is that the price of zec will be .345391 XBT on DEC 30?
[2016-10-26 11:19:28] Kalman : so far
[2016-10-26 11:20:21] penisgriffen : holy fuck that's ambitious
[2016-10-26 11:20:42] Kalman : people with diff opinions still battle/trade
[2016-10-26 11:21:07] jung1 : but its actually great technology
[2016-10-26 11:21:53] penisgriffen : there's still some things to be ironed out, but generally yes
[2016-10-26 11:23:15] penisgriffen : init params still haven't been addressed
[2016-10-26 11:24:01] XXXX : penisgriffen: literally speaking yes. But in reality the bet is that price of zec will be more than .345391 at least once before dec 30. And the buyers long now will be able to sell it to others before dec30. I am long zec but not goung to hold it till expiry. Will sell it when there is a pump on polo.
[2016-10-26 11:27:10] penisgriffen : XXXX: love it, if the media catches on and starts talking about how darknets will use zec then I think it's possible
[2016-10-26 11:27:16] Kalman : If there is a pump ...
[2016-10-26 11:29:48] jung1 : there will be
[2016-10-26 11:29:49] jung1 : look at monero
[2016-10-26 11:29:58] maker101 : Help me out here - Bitcoin market cap is 10.5 billion with 16/21 coins mined. Are you saying Zcash is worth 345 million already? 0.345 ?
[2016-10-26 11:31:03] habibi : U don't actually bet the price on 31dec, u bet the price between time of ur bet and end of time, if u go long u bet that there will be time when price will be higher then ur bet, i dont need to keep ur position until 31zec
[2016-10-26 11:31:05] habibi : dec*
[2016-10-26 11:31:11] jung1 : traders on bitmex think so
[2016-10-26 11:31:17] rapidtrades : I don't get this...LTC is a swap AND it expires?
[2016-10-26 11:31:29] jung1 : couse ltc is dead
[2016-10-26 11:31:36] rapidtrades : ur mom's dead
[2016-10-26 11:31:44] habibi : maker101: no, market cap is supply*price, i dont know how u reach that number
[2016-10-26 11:32:10] maker101 : What is the supply of Zcash?
[2016-10-26 11:32:19] jung1 : rapidtrades: thanks, I almost forgot how stupid you are
[2016-10-26 11:32:35] habibi : maker101: ~0 right now
[2016-10-26 11:32:46] jung1 : will be same as btc
[2016-10-26 11:32:48] jung1 : 21mil
[2016-10-26 11:32:49] maker101 : Total supply
[2016-10-26 11:33:09] maker101 : Yeah so.... 345 million market cap and nothing in mined yet
[2016-10-26 11:33:38] habibi : market cap is 0 right now
[2016-10-26 11:34:13] jung1 : that price is only prediction of about 100 traders which trade zcash futures here
[2016-10-26 11:34:14] maker101 : I understand, but this futures market thinks it is worth that
[2016-10-26 11:34:24] rapidtrades : will the raping on BTC swap never stop? This is getting redic
[2016-10-26 11:34:29] maker101 : Wow.
[2016-10-26 11:34:44] jung1 : goods are worth as much as people will pay for it
[2016-10-26 11:34:47] habibi : jung1: again, where u took that "100" number from?
[2016-10-26 11:35:00] jung1 : guess
[2016-10-26 11:36:19] maker101 : Seems enormously inflated. This prediction market considers it the 3rd biggest coin before it has even launched. A clone of bitcoin with an encrypted public ledger and is privately owned.
[2016-10-26 11:37:21] rapidtrades : a better bitcoin perhaps?
[2016-10-26 11:37:42] maker101 : Technically there are plenty of better bitcoins out there
[2016-10-26 11:37:52] habibi : maker101: again ur market cap is wrong but if u disagree with longers, shorting is a way to express that here
[2016-10-26 11:37:55] maker101 : but bitcoin is.. bitcoin
[2016-10-26 11:38:34] maker101 : Might short
[2016-10-26 11:40:46] habibi : for example after first day of mining, market cap with current price will be ~32 btc
[2016-10-26 11:44:53] maker101 : Yeah ok fair enough
[2016-10-26 11:45:43] rapidtrades : huh u got outsmarted by habibi
[2016-10-26 11:47:00] jung1 : rapidtrades: learn
[2016-10-26 11:48:55] sleger : moving altcoin swaps to 7 days ?? that sucks, one more stupid decision
[2016-10-26 11:49:44] sleger : at least make it 30 days futures, how can i short altcoins with 7d futures that's such a pain
[2016-10-26 11:49:45] rapidtrades : yeah i dunno what's this shit
[2016-10-26 11:49:49] rapidtrades : just noticed it
[2016-10-26 11:50:07] dasdfasdf : sleger: yes why no longer dated?
[2016-10-26 11:50:19] sleger : because they want you to pay fees every week
[2016-10-26 11:51:29] sleger : and i told them many times to replace 7d by 30d on altcoins
[2016-10-26 11:51:37] rapidtrades : is the BTC swap making more $$$ for bitmex? cos i trade much less since it was introduced
[2016-10-26 11:58:23] maker101 : Depends if you calc market cap as available supply x price or total supply x price
[2016-10-26 11:58:32] maker101 : coinmarketcap uses total supply
[2016-10-26 12:00:03] maker101 : sorry, uses av supply
[2016-10-26 12:00:46] maker101 : either way, extremely bullish for Zcash :)
[2016-10-26 12:33:29] laisee : ZEC ==> MOOON
[2016-10-26 12:34:44] Raybrazil : over 3 billkion mkt cap for zcash
[2016-10-26 12:34:49] Raybrazil : its way too much
[2016-10-26 12:35:36] laisee : fundamwntals look good, tho
[2016-10-26 12:37:09] Raybrazil : Ethereum mas just over 1 billion, btc has 10 billion
[2016-10-26 12:37:20] Raybrazil : zcash pre launch over 3 billion?
[2016-10-26 12:37:22] laisee : i.e. BTC is vulnerable and its tech has stalled for long time. ETH is flaky and the other pretenders are not ready.
[2016-10-26 12:37:24] Raybrazil : too much hype
[2016-10-26 12:37:30] RocketScience : marketcap = Price* Number of coins
[2016-10-26 12:37:39] RocketScience : 0.35*0 = 0
[2016-10-26 12:37:57] Raybrazil : Rocketscience, these are futures
[2016-10-26 12:38:09] Raybrazil : they are pricing over 3 bln dec 30th
[2016-10-26 12:38:20] Raybrazil : derivatives
[2016-10-26 12:38:20] hshah : how can i sell ethereum? which was in different account
[2016-10-26 12:38:23] RocketScience : i know, but the current zec price is predicting the opening price
[2016-10-26 12:38:46] Raybrazil : Im talking about the futures valuation
[2016-10-26 12:39:07] RocketScience : There will be a mega pump and then the price will fall as supply comes after 1 month of slow mining
[2016-10-26 12:41:30] hshah : how can i shift other currency in this account?
[2016-10-26 12:44:21] laisee : RocketScience: and if the market cap stays above 1B we have a new competitor for Bitcoin
[2016-10-26 12:44:36] RocketScience : You only use bitcoin to buy or short anything here
[2016-10-26 12:45:29] hshah : ok, thanks
[2016-10-26 12:45:56] RocketScience : Bitcoin is reserve currency of crypto
[2016-10-26 12:45:59] Raybrazil : current ZEC price is ZEC price on December 30, NOT OPENING
[2016-10-26 12:46:59] RocketScience : futures can go to 1 or 2 btc when the spot price rises there because of extremely limited supply at beginning
[2016-10-26 12:47:44] RocketScience : "quote about market irrationality*
[2016-10-26 12:48:10] laisee : ... longer than somne traders can stay un-liquidated ...
[2016-10-26 12:50:27] Raybrazil : Thats interesting, but in my view, as a derivative - there is no supply/demand action in futures market, only spot.. even then, it is impossible for zcash to reach 10 or 20 bln usd mkt cap valuation
[2016-10-26 12:51:14] Raybrazil : then you would have a time decay from now to december 30 (2 months) which would be huge
[2016-10-26 12:51:17] Raybrazil : its already huge
[2016-10-26 12:52:01] XXXX : How long the manual withdrawl process takes? I know utc 1300 is cut off. Can i expect btc in my personal bitcoin wallet by utc 1330? I have made sure fees are high enough for transaction to be picked up by miner under current conditions.
[2016-10-26 12:52:08] Raybrazil : Id like to see the mining of this
[2016-10-26 12:52:38] RocketScience : It's broadcasted in first 10 minutes
[2016-10-26 12:52:51] RocketScience : after 13h. Then you wait for bitcoin block
[2016-10-26 12:53:13] XXXX : RocketScience: thanks
[2016-10-26 13:05:14] billyboy402 : XXXX: it normally with 30 min or so plus block time
[2016-10-26 13:05:54] billyboy402 : but on firday they are some time much slower as there more contracts finisiing and alot of ppl cashing out after settlement
[2016-10-26 13:13:40] rapidtrades : huh never heard thta b4
[2016-10-26 13:13:45] rapidtrades : i wonder if its true
[2016-10-26 13:15:21] MrRGnome : God damnit admins, why the hell do you always make your changes so impulsively and with short notice? We want swap AND futures. These changes are going to screw me on Eth where I just took out what I intended to be a long term position.
[2016-10-26 13:15:53] sleger : yeah at least 30 days futures like ive been telling you to do, and you usually end up doing what i told you 6 months down the line...
[2016-10-26 13:17:28] rapidtrades : oh ETH expires too now
[2016-10-26 13:17:48] rapidtrades : like wtf is this futures/swap monstrosity
[2016-10-26 13:18:01] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 15923 @ 665.00
[2016-10-26 13:18:18] MrRGnome : See admins? See how screwed up this is? You have me agreeing with effing rapidtrades
[2016-10-26 13:21:26] wurstgelee : lolz wtf
[2016-10-26 13:21:31] wurstgelee : 2 hours afk, everything changed
[2016-10-26 13:23:18] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 16200 @ 665.08
[2016-10-26 13:23:19] MrRGnome : Admins trying to teach us a lesson about complaining apparently. "You want change? We'll see how much you like change when we effectively turn all altcoin swaps to futures overnight with no notice"
[2016-10-26 13:23:32] martinium : lol
[2016-10-26 13:24:31] Boontjie : To be honest people dont like change. When people want change, it is telling you something
[2016-10-26 13:26:03] MrRGnome : I want change, I want more futures products. I don't want products I'm actively in long term positions to chanhe to futures while I sleep. Completely fucks my trading plan and I need to start positioning for settlement asap since bitcoin is wild lately and affecting alts.
[2016-10-26 13:27:50] martinium : which products were changed to futures?
[2016-10-26 13:27:58] MrRGnome : All altcoins
[2016-10-26 13:28:52] REKT : Liquidated long on `XRP7D`: Sell 10000 @ 0.00001312
[2016-10-26 13:29:18] MrRGnome : As of today all altcoin swaps settle on Nov. 4 and are futures. No notice, just happened overnight.
[2016-10-26 13:29:25] BitMEX_Greg : We are changing all swaps to futures on Altcoins and delisting Lisk
[2016-10-26 13:29:43] MrRGnome : love the idea, but the way you did it is so irresponsible
[2016-10-26 13:30:03] MrRGnome : No notice at all, and now it's a futures market overnight.
[2016-10-26 13:30:11] BitMEX_Greg : What do you mean?
[2016-10-26 13:30:19] BitMEX_Greg : The futures go live on November 4
[2016-10-26 13:30:23] BitMEX_Greg : They are still swaps right now
[2016-10-26 13:30:47] MrRGnome : They settle on Nov 4th. A settlement date in the future is a future not a swap
[2016-10-26 13:31:13] BitMEX_Greg : How else would we settle a perpetual swap?
[2016-10-26 13:31:29] MrRGnome : With a months planned notic would be nice
[2016-10-26 13:31:30] martinium : yep
[2016-10-26 13:32:40] MrRGnome : Or even better, don't switch them and instead add futures and if you must, transition to one or the other after both markets are live
[2016-10-26 13:33:02] wurstgelee : hmm...delisting lisk seems early tbh, but then again, can relist any time ;)
[2016-10-26 13:33:21] martinium : lisk is a deadcoin and not needed while ETH exists
[2016-10-26 13:33:30] martinium : most alts are completely unnecessary
[2016-10-26 13:33:38] Boontjie : BitMEX_Greg: I think that is a good idea, open a futures market and allow people to transition into it
[2016-10-26 13:33:57] Boontjie : Give them a month knowing the swap will settle
[2016-10-26 13:34:00] MrRGnome : Don't screw traders like me who entered a long term eth pos during the dump who are hedging this bitcoin bubble by overnight turning the swap into a future
[2016-10-26 13:34:40] martinium : futures contracts while finite don't have those funding/cash flow payments and people prefer not having to pay more while in positions. But I believe there is a place for both.
[2016-10-26 13:36:14] laisee : start a futures market for the instruments traded at Bitmex
[2016-10-26 13:36:26] Gemz : hi im new, how do i know if the xbt trading is daily/weekly or monthly settlement, dont see it anywhere
[2016-10-26 13:36:38] martinium : BitMEX_Greg: Are they being replaced (the swaps) instead of being additions due to liquidity concerns?
[2016-10-26 13:36:59] MrRGnome : There is a place for both. Swap enables long term positions at a cost, futures enable settlement on low volume markets. I trade both very differently. I think it is gross to just turn one into the other overnight. @BitMEX_Greg
[2016-10-26 13:38:17] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 350 @ 666.39
[2016-10-26 13:38:25] sleger : by the way we never agreed to settlement trading fees on the swap, I assume the settlement of the "perpetual" swap will be free ?
[2016-10-26 13:39:00] MrRGnome : Have you ever considered running some of these ideas by the trollbox before impulsively pressing commit to prod? We sure as hell talked about it enough I would have loved to hear more than "we have something in the works" and then habe this sprung on us overnight
[2016-10-26 13:39:05] Gemz : is the xbt/usd daily settlement or what?
[2016-10-26 13:39:16] MrRGnome : It's swap @Gemz not settlement.
[2016-10-26 13:39:18] BitMEX_Greg : Gemz: The XBTUSD is a perpetual swap instrument with no expiry
[2016-10-26 13:39:28] sleger : so was eth yesterday
[2016-10-26 13:39:34] Gemz : so it has changed?
[2016-10-26 13:39:40] BitMEX_Greg : martinium: They are being replaced due to the amount of feedback complaining about the high funding rates
[2016-10-26 13:39:44] BitMEX_Greg : in general*
[2016-10-26 13:39:55] Gemz : first u had daily, weekly etc, so can i hold my position as long as i want?
[2016-10-26 13:40:44] BitMEX_Greg : MrRGnome: As much as we would love to have both, what's going to happen is there will be a shift of liquidity from one product to another. Your position in the swap will get eaten alive by more extreme funding rates due to an illiquid market that you now will be unable to exit out of unless you pay deep market impact costs
[2016-10-26 13:40:54] BitMEX_Greg : Gemz: That's correct
[2016-10-26 13:41:12] BitMEX_Greg : sleger: Yes I believe so
[2016-10-26 13:41:54] MrRGnome : Like I said I am all for more futures, I am very unhappy with the way you have done this. Should not at all have changes active markets to futures overnight, should have introduced futures alongside current markets. If I get eaten by fundinf thats my business, I made this entire eth trade partially based on funding and have largely been the recipient of it, that was the point in the position a long term btc bubble hedge with some interest
[2016-10-26 13:43:59] sleger : BitMEX_Greg: why 7d and not 30d ?
[2016-10-26 13:44:39] wurstgelee : sleger: wait until tomorrow
[2016-10-26 13:44:41] wurstgelee : ;)
[2016-10-26 13:47:07] BitMEX_Greg : sleger: some feedback we have gotten from market makers by being more manageable
[2016-10-26 13:48:10] MrRGnome : You get all kinds of feedback, we have been talking about this for days. Why would you say shit like "We have something in the works" instead of just discussing your idea and getting feedback on it before you make overnight changes?
[2016-10-26 13:48:21] sleger : 30d would be totally fine on eth, im not going to roll my position every week that's a pain
[2016-10-26 13:48:49] MrRGnome : sleger: +1 eth no longer useful as a btc bubble hedge for me if I have to deal with weekly settlements
[2016-10-26 13:49:04] MrRGnome : I would use weekly eth for totally different trading purposes.
[2016-10-26 13:49:46] sleger : there is a dec30 btcusd future now too ?
[2016-10-26 13:50:08] RocketScience : lol
[2016-10-26 13:50:10] RocketScience : it just appeared
[2016-10-26 13:50:39] sleger : we can trade usdjpy futures !
[2016-10-26 13:50:51] RocketScience : i bought the first future :)
[2016-10-26 13:51:09] sleger : you overpaid
[2016-10-26 13:51:15] Rado : lol
[2016-10-26 13:51:24] wurstgelee : lol
[2016-10-26 13:51:29] wurstgelee : 5 mins afk, new futures
[2016-10-26 13:51:31] Rado : there was no announcement about this future
[2016-10-26 13:51:32] wurstgelee : wtf
[2016-10-26 13:51:36] RocketScience : :D
[2016-10-26 13:51:44] RocketScience : it was said today or in few days
[2016-10-26 13:51:55] RocketScience : earlier on trollbox
[2016-10-26 13:51:58] MrRGnome : BitMex really needs to standardize their change policy, this impulsive shit i ridiculous
[2016-10-26 13:52:36] wurstgelee : if i go afak again now, will they still be there in an hour?
[2016-10-26 13:52:37] wurstgelee : :D
[2016-10-26 13:52:45] wurstgelee : *-a
[2016-10-26 13:52:58] Rado : wurstgelee: go away and they will add a Jan future
[2016-10-26 13:53:04] wurstgelee : haha
[2016-10-26 13:54:00] wurstgelee : i dont mind changes tbh, they are necessary sometimes....but i would love to not have suprises in the morning. some minimum warning period would be great
[2016-10-26 13:54:40] MrRGnome : Some discussion would be even better. You had every opportunity to discuss this over the last few days.
[2016-10-26 13:55:02] MrRGnome : Give us some heads up so we don't wake up in entirely different markets than we bought or sold into
[2016-10-26 13:55:44] BitMEX_Greg : We are giving you around 10 days heads up for the changeover from swaps to futures
[2016-10-26 13:55:52] MrRGnome : BitMEX_Greg: That's not true
[2016-10-26 13:56:03] BitMEX_Greg : We just launched XBTZ16, an announcement will follow shortly
[2016-10-26 13:56:06] wurstgelee : thats the worst part imo. changing parameters while the market is live....and people are in positions
[2016-10-26 13:56:13] MrRGnome : If you have announced a settlement date, that makes it a future
[2016-10-26 13:56:26] MrRGnome : If anything a terrible future with a screwed up mark price
[2016-10-26 13:56:30] MrRGnome : That's not notice
[2016-10-26 13:57:16] wurstgelee : altering reality without prior notice is not notice :p
[2016-10-26 13:57:23] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 2576 @ 667.00
[2016-10-26 13:57:33] martinium : growing pains
[2016-10-26 13:57:48] martinium : it's all good in the end as this will get solved and exchange will be better for it
[2016-10-26 13:58:13] sleger : which exchange
[2016-10-26 13:58:16] martinium : some notice ahead of implemented changes would be optimal
[2016-10-26 13:58:30] martinium : sleger: this one
[2016-10-26 13:58:40] MrRGnome : And to be clear announcing that something will settle in 10 days is not notice, that's effective change immediately.
[2016-10-26 13:59:14] sleger : MrRGnome: how would you announce that change without announcing it ?
[2016-10-26 13:59:28] sleger : saying at some point in the future it will become a future ?
[2016-10-26 13:59:31] wurstgelee : nope, announcing without doing at once would be great
[2016-10-26 13:59:46] MrRGnome : I would have discussed the idea and potential proposal in the many many discussions in this troll box, I would have launched futures alongside swap and encouraged a moving of liquidity
[2016-10-26 13:59:55] MrRGnome : and THEN I would have announced a final settlement date of eth
[2016-10-26 14:02:38] MrRGnome : Is that not more reasonable than changing a swap market to futures overnight out of no where?
[2016-10-26 14:02:51] wurstgelee : lol....so i am holding >99% of the open xbtz16 value... ;)
[2016-10-26 14:03:12] Rado : 99%?
[2016-10-26 14:03:24] wurstgelee : yep
[2016-10-26 14:03:35] MrRGnome : Clearly someone had notice, market makers are working on these instruments that are unannounced
[2016-10-26 14:03:41] MrRGnome : That smells of bullshit
[2016-10-26 14:04:06] sleger : i have > 75% of 7d jpy
[2016-10-26 14:04:07] wurstgelee : open value is 1.4425 and my position (the 1000) is 1.4396 ..
[2016-10-26 14:04:10] wurstgelee : :p
[2016-10-26 14:04:22] Rado : oh
[2016-10-26 14:04:25] Rado : the new one
[2016-10-26 14:04:28] wurstgelee : yes
[2016-10-26 14:04:29] wurstgelee : ;)
[2016-10-26 14:04:34] sleger : ahhh
[2016-10-26 14:06:07] wurstgelee : btc is such a tease today....
[2016-10-26 14:06:39] MrRGnome : How did the market makers know that these changes were coming and how come the rest of us aren't given that information?
[2016-10-26 14:07:37] MrRGnome : BitMEX_Greg: ??
[2016-10-26 14:07:49] wurstgelee : boom?
[2016-10-26 14:07:52] wurstgelee : :D
[2016-10-26 14:09:58] BitMEX_Arthur : MrRGnome: Changing the expiry date on the swap does not fundamentally change how the product is structured. There are still 8hr funding charges. 10 days is plenty of time to close any position if you wish to do so.
[2016-10-26 14:10:24] MrRGnome : It changes how the product is traded @BitMEX_Arthur, it changes viable trading strategies for the product
[2016-10-26 14:11:01] MrRGnome : And I'm still waiting for an answer to the question, how did the market makers know about the changes in advance but no one else did?
[2016-10-26 14:11:56] wurstgelee : MrRGnome: you dont wnat to know "how", you want to know "why" ;)
[2016-10-26 14:12:19] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 100 @ 666.09
[2016-10-26 14:12:19] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 6615 @ 665.39
[2016-10-26 14:12:25] MrRGnome : Sure, I want them to say "because we told them" then I want to say "Why the fuck didn't you tell everyone?"
[2016-10-26 14:12:47] wurstgelee : dump ;)
[2016-10-26 14:13:23] MrRGnome : So, @BitMEX_Arthur @BitMEX_Greg any thoughts about that?
[2016-10-26 14:13:45] BitMEX_Arthur : MrRGnome: As I said nothing has changed about the product
[2016-10-26 14:14:01] MrRGnome : Not only is that bullshit, but that's not what i have asked 4 times in a row now
[2016-10-26 14:14:09] BitMEX_Arthur : A market maker doesn't care much about the expiry date if you are charged funding based on the observed premium during an 8 hour period
[2016-10-26 14:14:26] MrRGnome : So you told them because they don't care, and you didn't warn everyone else because they do care?
[2016-10-26 14:14:31] BitMEX_Arthur : So as I said we didn't break the product so if you had a bot built to quote it, nothing would change
[2016-10-26 14:14:39] BitMEX_Arthur : We didn't tell anyone
[2016-10-26 14:14:57] MrRGnome : How did the market makers populate the unannounced markets with liquidity if they weren't told?
[2016-10-26 14:15:42] BitMEX_Arthur : Again I will repeat, we did not alter the structure of the product so no one's bot would have been affected by the addition of an expiry date, hence no disruption in quoting
[2016-10-26 14:15:43] martinium : after they were told they used their bots
[2016-10-26 14:15:44] martinium : lol
[2016-10-26 14:16:00] MrRGnome : XBTZ16 had makers as soon as it launched. How is that possible if they didn't know it existed?
[2016-10-26 14:16:09] NL007 : hi
[2016-10-26 14:16:15] martinium : NL007: hi
[2016-10-26 14:16:59] BitMEX_Arthur : MrRGnome: As with any exchange we have various liquidity providers that we discuss new products with, we don't list things that will not have market making support
[2016-10-26 14:17:15] MrRGnome : AH so you DID discuss these changes with others but not the public
[2016-10-26 14:17:24] MrRGnome : You don't see that as a problem?
[2016-10-26 14:17:29] BitMEX_Arthur : No I do not
[2016-10-26 14:17:32] MrRGnome : I do.
[2016-10-26 14:17:36] BitMEX_Arthur : Do you want an empty orderbook?
[2016-10-26 14:17:44] MrRGnome : I want notice an orderbook is coming online
[2016-10-26 14:17:52] BitMEX_Arthur : Are you a market maker?
[2016-10-26 14:17:56] MrRGnome : I want notice to product changes, adn yes adding an expiry is a product change
[2016-10-26 14:18:10] BitMEX_Arthur : If so we can have a chat offline about your business and how to have you quote on BitMEX
[2016-10-26 14:18:11] MrRGnome : If I was will that give me privileged information? It seems it would
[2016-10-26 14:18:36] MrRGnome : I shouldn't have to enter a side channel chat with you behind closed doors, the information should have been publicly discussed
[2016-10-26 14:18:42] BitMEX_Arthur : Otherwise when a new orderbook comes online it will be populated with quotes so that you can enter and exit a position
[2016-10-26 14:19:08] MrRGnome : And i'm all for that, but if you are going to disseminate information do so EQUALLY and not behind closed doors
[2016-10-26 14:19:14] wurstgelee : he wants it announced in advance before it comes online...thats all. same for changes
[2016-10-26 14:19:29] wurstgelee : ofc u have to discuss with MM first if they would provide liquidity
[2016-10-26 14:19:43] wurstgelee : but bitmex could still announce changes a few days before they actually happen
[2016-10-26 14:19:52] MrRGnome : wurstgelee: +1
[2016-10-26 14:20:33] wurstgelee : thats what most people here are complaining right now. nothing else
[2016-10-26 14:20:47] wurstgelee : changes are fine, announcements are too - they just shouldnt happen at the same time
[2016-10-26 14:20:48] wurstgelee : ;)
[2016-10-26 14:20:59] NL007 : How is the Zcash price calculated from Poloniex when zcash isnt listed there?
[2016-10-26 14:20:59] MrRGnome : I want to see BitMex formalize a policy for changes to instruments and the addition of new ones.
[2016-10-26 14:21:13] Rado : NL007: it's not
[2016-10-26 14:21:16] wurstgelee : NL007: its not from poloniex right now, its lastPrice marking
[2016-10-26 14:21:22] sleger : I have an open position on eth swap and I do agree that this change does not materially impact the price or create positive or negative impact on my pnl so this is okay, even though I think 7d futures is worse than swap or 30d futures. Anyways this is better than an unannounced change without sufficient notice that created a significant price impact like when you introduced funding on swap and cost me 10k$
[2016-10-26 14:22:06] NL007 : ""The Zcash price is calculated from the last price at Poloniex. ''''
[2016-10-26 14:22:20] wurstgelee : NL007: thats wrong ;)
[2016-10-26 14:22:22] NL007 : On bitmez
[2016-10-26 14:22:29] wurstgelee : yeah, the info is wrong
[2016-10-26 14:22:30] NL007 : bitmex
[2016-10-26 14:22:41] wurstgelee : still wrong ;)
[2016-10-26 14:22:41] Rado : NL007: that will be true after it opens on the exchange
[2016-10-26 14:22:48] jose : 7d futures is really bad imo, on ETC i lost money most of the time, so i stopped playing on ETC, 30d is way better
[2016-10-26 14:23:11] wurstgelee : Rado: what if polo doesnt list within first days? trex already confirmed for example
[2016-10-26 14:23:12] wurstgelee : ;)
[2016-10-26 14:23:14] Rado : 7D and 30D is pretty much the same
[2016-10-26 14:23:15] NL007 : They should change it
[2016-10-26 14:23:26] wurstgelee : NL007: yes =)
[2016-10-26 14:23:35] Rado : the only difference is that settlement and commissions happen more often
[2016-10-26 14:23:50] MrRGnome : I'm all for weekly, 30d, doesn't matter. I like the addition of markets. I'm only very unhappy with the way BitMex handles changes.
[2016-10-26 14:24:33] wurstgelee : less suprises, information about changes in advance. thats all ;)
[2016-10-26 14:24:36] sleger : always been the case, people complain, nothing changes
[2016-10-26 14:24:55] Rado : sleger: not true
[2016-10-26 14:25:11] Rado : we got a USD futures on XBT
[2016-10-26 14:25:26] sleger : i am talking about communication dummy