This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2016-09-06 19:47:43] BitMEX_Greg : and usually fomo buys pushes up the rate
[2016-09-06 19:47:52] sleger : actually in that case they are a good predictor of the future
[2016-09-06 19:48:18] sleger : and longs better hope bitcoin does x3 or they will still lose money here
[2016-09-06 19:48:19] jordy : what is the trading fee ?
[2016-09-06 19:48:32] BitMEX_Greg : jordy: https://www.bitmex.com/app/fees
[2016-09-06 19:49:33] BitMEX_Greg : sleger: If it was a future, then the one year contract would be pricing at 150% if the funding is useful for pricing
[2016-09-06 19:50:01] sleger : one year linear future ? I highly doubt it
[2016-09-06 19:50:28] BitMEX_Greg : I'm just saying, the two should be linked. Basis and funding
[2016-09-06 19:50:43] sleger : they should be, but you created a monster
[2016-09-06 19:51:40] sleger : this is why i am closing my long eth position here, because i end up paying funding even when the price goes down, and i can keep it open on polo for much cheaper
[2016-09-06 19:53:23] BitMEX_Greg : The alts are a bit different because of the spread size, we're looking into it
[2016-09-06 19:54:54] sleger : the problem is the same though, many people do not want unpredictable funding rate
[2016-09-06 19:55:08] sleger : they want a way to lock in the rate for a certain, decent (not 8 hours) period of time
[2016-09-06 19:55:26] sleger : i would rather trade a one or 3 months eth product than the swap actually
[2016-09-06 19:55:36] jordy : try okcoin then
[2016-09-06 19:55:43] BitMEX_Greg : Basis is also unpredictable though. I've seen quarterlies swing $100
[2016-09-06 19:55:44] jordy : try ok coin then
[2016-09-06 19:55:45] sleger : jordy: when did they add eth ?
[2016-09-06 19:55:57] BitMEX_Greg : on bitcoin*
[2016-09-06 19:56:01] sleger : BitMEX_Greg: it doesnt matter, once i enter my position it is locked
[2016-09-06 19:56:02] jordy : I don't know man
[2016-09-06 19:56:09] sleger : jordy: well they didnt
[2016-09-06 19:56:21] jordy : ok coin is like 30% for futures
[2016-09-06 19:56:28] BitMEX_Greg : As long as you hold it to expiry and you can afford the swings without getting liquidated
[2016-09-06 19:56:32] sleger : jordy: im talking about eth, pay attention
[2016-09-06 19:56:42] sleger : BitMEX_Greg: yes and that's what I want
[2016-09-06 19:56:57] jordy : ethereum?
[2016-09-06 19:57:22] sleger : I enter my position, I know how much I pay till expiry and that's fine, swings are part of it, but I know what I sign up for
[2016-09-06 19:57:30] sleger : jordy: yes, typically eth = ethereum
[2016-09-06 19:57:57] jordy : you mean ok coin?
[2016-09-06 19:58:12] sleger : learn how to annualize a rate properly
[2016-09-06 19:59:02] jordy : the rate is crazy here ....but there is a lot of chance of arbri
[2016-09-06 20:00:01] jordy : BitMEX_Greg: how can I see the change after funding time?
[2016-09-06 20:04:30] BitMEX_Greg : sleger: Right, our product aims at replicating spot though. With our previous futures, we had queries from users complaining about the mismatch between spot and the futures price as they don't understand the basis
[2016-09-06 20:04:39] jordy : BitMEX_Greg: how can I find my funding cost received ?
[2016-09-06 20:04:46] BitMEX_Greg : jordy: Check two of those pages I sent to you earlier.
[2016-09-06 20:05:05] BitMEX_Greg : jordy: In your Trade History: https://www.bitmex.com/app/tradeHistory
[2016-09-06 20:42:03] zanza : time to list NAV
[2016-09-06 20:45:07] zanza : ETH folks getting salty that XMR surpassed it
[2016-09-06 20:53:03] mjones : NAV really taking off wow
[2016-09-06 20:54:32] mjones : only $4,000,000 market cap.
[2016-09-06 20:55:09] mjones : was $250,000 then jumped to $1,000,000 now $4,000,000
[2016-09-06 20:56:51] tb : i don't understand the risk limit
[2016-09-06 20:56:55] tb : what stops a user from creating multiple accounts
[2016-09-06 20:56:58] tb : to bypass the limit?
[2016-09-06 20:57:07] BitMEX_Greg : tb: There is nothing. You are free to do so
[2016-09-06 20:57:32] zanza : bu Sam will find out where you live and knock on your door late one night
[2016-09-06 20:57:42] mjones : wow i pay 0.13 BTC in fees a day
[2016-09-06 20:57:51] zanza : fees or funding ?
[2016-09-06 20:58:31] mjones : funding
[2016-09-06 20:58:58] zanza : funding is 0 sum
[2016-09-06 20:59:50] mjones : fee rate 0.3223% and 0.0859% and 0.0726% 3 times a day i pay each one
[2016-09-06 20:59:57] mjones : i never actually looked into this before
[2016-09-06 21:00:11] habibi : zanza: keep thinking like that :D
[2016-09-06 21:00:27] zanza : its truth
[2016-09-06 21:00:34] zanza : you can receive funding payouts also
[2016-09-06 21:01:12] habibi : zanza: so its zero sum between all the position owners
[2016-09-06 21:01:42] tb : BitMEX_Greg: then why does it exist?
[2016-09-06 21:02:37] zanza : small speedbump
[2016-09-06 21:02:59] BitMEX_Greg : tb: We don't want large positions at one liquidation price. By splitting up positions you are effectively spreading your liquidation price
[2016-09-06 21:03:31] tb : I see, ok makes sense
[2016-09-06 21:23:05] rapidtrades : good evening
[2016-09-06 21:23:16] rapidtrades : i see u still can't move this shitcoin
[2016-09-06 21:38:16] Boontjie : okcoin
[2016-09-06 21:39:23] rapidtrades : Boontjie: did u have a diff nick earlier
[2016-09-06 21:40:29] Boontjie : rapidtrades: no
[2016-09-06 21:40:56] Boontjie : why
[2016-09-06 21:47:47] rapidtrades : ur name sounds familiar
[2016-09-06 22:24:11] Boontjie : rapidtrades: we have spoken before
[2016-09-06 22:26:41] rapidtrades : Boontjie: were u short usd/jpy?
[2016-09-06 22:38:02] REKT : Liquidated long on `XMR7D`: Sell 50 @ 0.020340
[2016-09-06 22:38:07] REKT : Liquidated long on `XMR7D`: Sell 15 @ 0.020289
[2016-09-06 22:39:19] CaptainDean : holy XMR
[2016-09-06 22:39:22] REKT : Liquidated long on `XMR7D`: Sell 45 @ 0.019130
[2016-09-06 22:39:23] mjones : rofl xmr
[2016-09-06 22:39:29] Tetsuo : lol
[2016-09-06 22:39:37] CaptainDean : buy ?
[2016-09-06 22:39:46] Tetsuo : nope
[2016-09-06 22:39:48] mjones : no
[2016-09-06 22:40:04] mjones : yes now
[2016-09-06 22:40:07] CaptainDean : too risky ?
[2016-09-06 22:40:24] Tetsuo : bull trap started to close
[2016-09-06 22:44:39] CaptainDean : i was watching the 5 min bar (poloniex doens't have the 1 min) i gues you guys called it 1 min later baed on the 1 min chart right ?
[2016-09-06 22:44:51] mjones : https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/poloniex/xmrbtc
[2016-09-06 22:44:59] mjones : hope you got in at 0.0193
[2016-09-06 22:45:14] CaptainDean : 19477
[2016-09-06 22:45:54] CaptainDean : i wish i had bough more
[2016-09-06 22:45:56] CaptainDean : but it's fine
[2016-09-06 22:46:06] mjones : it'll come back down
[2016-09-06 22:46:17] Tetsuo : prepare to drop it like it´s hot
[2016-09-06 22:47:48] CaptainDean : yeah i think i will go out soon
[2016-09-06 22:47:51] CaptainDean : doesn't look good
[2016-09-06 22:48:45] CaptainDean : well, some solid base now
[2016-09-06 22:49:04] CaptainDean : buy sell is pretty much equels
[2016-09-06 22:49:16] mjones : new low
[2016-09-06 22:49:32] mjones : dip buyers out in full force
[2016-09-06 22:52:57] CaptainDean : i'm out ! :P
[2016-09-06 22:53:31] mjones : yeah
[2016-09-06 22:53:39] CaptainDean : small profit .. but didn't loose nothing
[2016-09-06 22:53:43] mjones : xmr big double top and here comes the dump
[2016-09-06 22:54:30] mjones : 12 hour MACD crossing down for the first time since the pump started at 0.003
[2016-09-06 22:56:44] CaptainDean : so close to a new low
[2016-09-06 22:56:44] mjones : lol xmr orderbook is missing the market maker
[2016-09-06 22:56:58] mjones : incoming 0.0186
[2016-09-06 22:57:01] CaptainDean : yeah it happens sometimes
[2016-09-06 22:57:27] mjones : that's why i hate being on the wrong end when it disappears. rekt
[2016-09-06 22:57:35] CaptainDean : yeah
[2016-09-06 22:58:03] CaptainDean : the MM is hard on us when it an uptrend it's like +0.3 on the price ... downtread almost as the current price
[2016-09-06 22:58:21] CaptainDean : like I sold at 196xxx but the price was at 20000
[2016-09-06 22:58:25] justinlooking : i think 182 at least if 195 breaks
[2016-09-06 22:58:26] CaptainDean : it's an enormous but
[2016-09-06 22:58:26] mjones : yeah
[2016-09-06 22:58:32] CaptainDean : cut**
[2016-09-06 22:59:00] mjones : massive accumulation by the believers for a while now. then when everyone gives up, moon
[2016-09-06 23:01:03] rapidtrades : monero is donero
[2016-09-06 23:01:39] CaptainDean : looks like short to me now
[2016-09-06 23:04:06] CaptainDean : we might survive it
[2016-09-06 23:04:57] laisee : el monero, esta muerto
[2016-09-06 23:05:08] CaptainDean : so we dit ! :P
[2016-09-06 23:05:12] CaptainDean : did
[2016-09-06 23:05:13] mjones : someone loves expensive xmr
[2016-09-06 23:06:26] laisee : CaptainDean: monero is dead, and you guys here killd him
[2016-09-06 23:07:15] CaptainDean : laisee: Last time i check you were here ;-)
[2016-09-06 23:07:52] laisee : I was hodling ... XMR is the future
[2016-09-06 23:08:20] laisee : future what ... I'm not sure
[2016-09-06 23:08:34] CaptainDean : laisee: :D
[2016-09-06 23:26:42] CaptainDean : XMR back up ?
[2016-09-06 23:26:49] CaptainDean : no trading for ma I have to go now
[2016-09-06 23:27:00] CaptainDean : i just aw the new low
[2016-09-06 23:27:05] CaptainDean : nevermind ! :P
[2016-09-06 23:28:06] mjones : xmr bouncing around
[2016-09-06 23:50:30] rapidtrades : yen pairs just crumbled
[2016-09-07 00:00:59] laisee : buy yen, sell usd?
[2016-09-07 00:03:57] rapidtrades : unfortunately im long there..but my short eur/jpy helps :)
[2016-09-07 00:04:39] rapidtrades : yuan continues to strengthen too
[2016-09-07 00:36:26] CaptainDean : xmr double top (bottom) is that also applied for downtrend (the double top figure) ?
[2016-09-07 00:46:56] mjones : yeah 0.0195 looks like a solid bottom for the short term
[2016-09-07 00:56:46] rapidtrades : that can't be a bottom
[2016-09-07 01:10:46] CaptainDean : real bottom 187 ?
[2016-09-07 01:46:33] Rado : I think XMR uptrend is done for now
[2016-09-07 01:47:01] Rado : short will be the easy trade instead of trying to go long
[2016-09-07 01:48:00] mjones : had 3 nice big pumps. bull trap on the 3rd pump. some deep pockets trying to hold it up though still
[2016-09-07 01:48:31] mjones : and checking out FCT 10x margin. drops 0.002 and boom margin called
[2016-09-07 01:49:24] mjones : i mean 0.0002
[2016-09-07 01:49:47] mjones : 0.004672 to 0.00444
[2016-09-07 01:51:50] Rado : Wtf is NAV coin?
[2016-09-07 02:01:55] mjones : It was a really cheap coin
[2016-09-07 04:15:11] CaptainDean : Are we using Bitfinex in the Kaiko price ?
[2016-09-07 04:15:34] CaptainDean : i tought it was 50% BTCe and 50% stamp
[2016-09-07 04:25:25] CaptainDean : double top XMR
[2016-09-07 04:25:57] CaptainDean : slightly new high on the second tho
[2016-09-07 04:47:00] BitMEX_Jinming : CaptainDean: No Bitfinex. It is 50% bitstamp and 50% OKC.
[2016-09-07 05:10:18] CaptainDean : hooo ok thanks
[2016-09-07 06:19:30] Doppelganger : .
[2016-09-07 08:28:07] jordy : hi
[2016-09-07 08:28:51] jordy : the funding rate will directly be funded to my assigned margin ?
[2016-09-07 08:29:21] BitMEX_Wally : jordy: Yes, the funding goes directly into or from the margin assigned to the position
[2016-09-07 09:10:47] Kalman : BitMEX_Jinming: Hi, is there a way one can download the complete trade history in one run and not only the 100 selected?
[2016-09-07 09:22:39] BitMEX_Wally : Kalman: You can get 500 at once via the API
[2016-09-07 09:23:09] BitMEX_Wally : Also @j8 has created some scripts that can download it in one go: https://github.com/BitMEX/easy-data-scripts
[2016-09-07 09:26:08] Kalman : BitMEX_Wally: Thx
[2016-09-07 09:36:43] jordy : hi
[2016-09-07 09:37:01] jordy : do you have auto margin system?
[2016-09-07 09:37:55] jordy : so I don't need to adjust the margin assigned for each position ?
[2016-09-07 09:39:22] BitMEX_Wally : jordy: You can drag the Leverage selector to 'Cross'
[2016-09-07 09:39:43] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.bitmex.com/app/isolatedMargin
[2016-09-07 09:43:28] jordy : how to activate ?
[2016-09-07 09:59:06] BitMEX_Wally : Follow the link
[2016-09-07 10:04:28] jordy : I didn't get the idea from the link
[2016-09-07 10:06:28] jordy : I still have to change the assign margin of my open positions one by one
[2016-09-07 10:07:04] lockhedge : "Cross Margin: Margin is shared between open positions. When needed, a position will draw more margin from the total account balance to avoid liquidation."
[2016-09-07 10:07:49] jordy : yes...but how to activate it ?
[2016-09-07 10:07:59] jordy : seems I am isolated margin for my positons
[2016-09-07 10:09:42] jordy : by the way, how long does it take to transfer back my bitcoin to my wallet....
[2016-09-07 10:09:55] lockhedge : can you move the slider back to "Cross"?
[2016-09-07 10:09:59] jordy : it is confirmed but I can't see the payment in my wallet
[2016-09-07 10:10:30] jordy : yes...it is done
[2016-09-07 10:10:31] jordy : thanks
[2016-09-07 10:10:44] jordy : I don't know the left side is cross
[2016-09-07 10:10:47] jordy : sorry for that
[2016-09-07 10:20:13] jordy : my withdrawal of bitcoin is confirmed
[2016-09-07 10:20:36] jordy : for 30 minutes , when can I receive my funds ?
[2016-09-07 10:22:40] lockhedge : "Withdrawals must be submitted by 13:00 UTC (in 3 hours) to be included in the day's batch. For security reasons, BitMEX processes withdrawals with manual review once a day." https://www.bitmex.com/app/withdraw
[2016-09-07 10:43:14] subjective : Epic XMR 4H support line approaching, hold or break down..?
[2016-09-07 11:07:26] jordy : hi, I have deposited some bitcoin into my account
[2016-09-07 11:07:38] jordy : how long does it take to arrive ?
[2016-09-07 11:09:39] jordy : it is too slow compared to other bitcoin transaction
[2016-09-07 11:10:46] BitMEX_Wally : jordy: We only require 1 block confirmation before the funds are credited to your account
[2016-09-07 11:10:50] BitMEX_Wally : Let me check your account
[2016-09-07 11:11:37] herpinator : normally doesn't take too long from my experience
[2016-09-07 11:12:49] BitMEX_Wally : jordy: Your transaction was broadcast 9 minutes ago, and the last Bitcoin block was 39 minutes ago
[2016-09-07 11:13:42] BitMEX_Wally : With the high fee on your transaction it will be confirmed in the next block
[2016-09-07 11:16:41] BitMEX_Wally : jordy: Your deposit has just confirmed and has been credited to your account
[2016-09-07 11:37:08] jordy : thanks, how can I trade 100x futures?
[2016-09-07 11:46:31] kogroken : Currently 50x seems to be the highest offered.
[2016-09-07 11:46:55] habibi : jordy: https://www.bitmex.com/app/trade/XBJ24H
[2016-09-07 11:47:55] kogroken : Oh, didn't know the BTC/YEN futures had 100x. Seems strangle, the volume is so low with them.
[2016-09-07 11:48:02] kogroken : strange*
[2016-09-07 11:48:17] jordy : habibi: noted with thanks
[2016-09-07 11:57:39] investor : XMR gonna take a run
[2016-09-07 12:57:44] Tetsuo : run to the center of the earth!
[2016-09-07 13:03:52] REKT : Liquidated long on `XMR7D`: Sell 42 @ 0.019172
[2016-09-07 13:04:32] mjones : so long XMR.
[2016-09-07 13:23:12] CaptainDean : 187 resistance
[2016-09-07 13:48:54] laisee : XMR dead agin?
[2016-09-07 13:57:59] laisee : guess I will need to dig into savings and buy mas dinero a.k.a monero
[2016-09-07 13:58:35] laisee : if everyone buys $10 worth we can rescue XMR
[2016-09-07 14:27:25] aethlios : I will buy 50$
[2016-09-07 14:29:53] aethlios : all quite in the major fronts
[2016-09-07 14:32:00] laisee : Thanks, aethlios! Every bit helps :-)
[2016-09-07 14:33:03] laisee : rapidtrades: its ok to buy 1 contract instead
[2016-09-07 14:34:00] jordy : what is the funding rate history
[2016-09-07 14:34:21] aethlios : laisee: I want to buy back, target 0.0071, the 10.000 coins I sold 0.01475. So my bid is 0.0071
[2016-09-07 14:35:54] laisee : patience, aethlios: your time will come when 0.0071 can buy
[2016-09-07 14:37:39] aethlios : laisee: it is fib retr 23%, I keep the sale reveneu in btc, if btc pumps hope for a correction. don't forget monero was a 1.5 usd coin for 2 years.
[2016-09-07 14:38:45] aethlios : also want to buy some bbr, bbr and aeon are also like monero cryptonote coins, both 2.5 years old.
[2016-09-07 14:39:09] aethlios : like btc has ltc
[2016-09-07 14:42:26] aethlios : bought monero 0.00247 sold 0.01475, want funds to get in zcash, but no more than 2 usd price. with zcash hype monero can slowly go down next 3 months, but who knows......
[2016-09-07 14:42:28] laisee : aethlios: I was buying XMR couple of years back, and mining ducknote before it became "famous"
[2016-09-07 14:42:56] laisee : boolberry?
[2016-09-07 14:43:09] aethlios : laisee: are you looking at zcash?? it is very hyped already.
[2016-09-07 14:43:23] aethlios : yes boolbery, is on poloniex
[2016-09-07 14:43:31] laisee : I like the ideas ... but maybe the hype peaked a little early?
[2016-09-07 14:43:54] aethlios : they say fixed some weaknesses of monero, check bitcointalk page.
[2016-09-07 14:44:05] BitMEX_Wally : jordy: Funding rate history is here: https://www.bitmex.com/app/fundingHistory
[2016-09-07 14:44:44] aethlios : zcash maybe wait for 1 year for supply to grow and hype to go away.
[2016-09-07 14:44:58] laisee : aethlios: true. and prbably the next "privacy" coin to come along won't have a name at all
[2016-09-07 14:45:26] aethlios : laisee: haha!
[2016-09-07 14:46:58] laisee : ;-)
[2016-09-07 14:50:16] aethlios : crypto market is the new eldorado, fiat will come in next 10 years, many opportunities to make a lot of money AND have FUN!!!
[2016-09-07 14:51:14] aethlios : it is like the railways in early 1800, or the dot com stocks, etc.
[2016-09-07 14:52:07] aethlios : started trading nov. of 2013, almost 3 years now, feel to know the market well now.
[2016-09-07 15:01:05] laisee : aethlios: started about same time. downloaded BTC code and compiled it. started working on 1st bitcoin exchange in Dec '13
[2016-09-07 15:04:41] habibi : laisee: few months later gox went to hell, nice work :)
[2016-09-07 15:05:30] laisee : heh. I applied for account at Gox, got turned down for KYC stuff and didn't bother. Then it failed :-/
[2016-09-07 15:06:10] rapidtrades : laisee: not even good enough for Gox
[2016-09-07 15:06:14] rapidtrades : that must sting
[2016-09-07 15:06:29] laisee : still hurts ... can't "code" in php.
[2016-09-07 15:06:59] laisee : worst.coder.in.bitcoin,eva
[2016-09-07 15:34:01] QuantFocus : funding rate just chewing up profits
[2016-09-07 15:37:20] QuantFocus : does okc charge funding or lending fees?
[2016-09-07 15:38:46] sleger : no cause it's futures
[2016-09-07 15:39:01] QuantFocus : they don't offer spot leverage?
[2016-09-07 15:39:13] BitMEX_Sam : Very different type of product.
[2016-09-07 15:39:48] QuantFocus : BitMEX_Sam: sure. it's just painful seeing 50% of profit lost to funding
[2016-09-07 15:40:10] BitMEX_Sam : Yes - however you may pay a similar amount due to basis decay on a future
[2016-09-07 15:40:10] QuantFocus : i've had this conversation on here before, so don't want to rehash it
[2016-09-07 15:40:48] sleger : I doubt you'd end up paying 150% per annum with long term futures
[2016-09-07 15:40:53] QuantFocus : it just doesn't seem like the positive and negative funding truly balance out, even over a period of flat returns on xbt
[2016-09-07 15:41:28] BitMEX_Sam : They aren't meant to, they should charge long more often than shorts.
[2016-09-07 15:41:41] BitMEX_Sam : Just as XBT futures more often have positive basis.
[2016-09-07 15:42:20] QuantFocus : i thought the intent of the funding was to force market back to spot?
[2016-09-07 15:42:34] QuantFocus : er, i guess spot back to mark
[2016-09-07 15:42:44] lockhedge : next week's okc future's premium is equivalent to 0.0398% daily funding
[2016-09-07 15:42:47] BitMEX_Sam : It is to move trading to mark. And that more often will be positive funding.
[2016-09-07 15:43:23] rapidtrades : ywah that#s why it sucks
[2016-09-07 15:43:45] BitMEX_Sam : Not sure how that comment follows, considering it's built to emulate futures.
[2016-09-07 15:43:51] QuantFocus : just as a hypothetical, if xbt starts any given week at $610, and ends the week at the same price, and mark price ends there as well, would funding still be positive?
[2016-09-07 15:43:56] BitMEX_Sam : You either pay/receive the daily funding, or pay/receive basis.
[2016-09-07 15:44:08] BitMEX_Sam : QuantFocus: Depends on how it trades in the meantime.
[2016-09-07 15:44:14] rapidtrades : positive means longs receive when they should pay @BitMEX_Sam
[2016-09-07 15:44:43] BitMEX_Sam : rapidtrades: No, positive means longs pay shorts.
[2016-09-07 15:45:08] rapidtrades : well not sure if thats the actual outcome
[2016-09-07 15:45:25] BitMEX_Sam : How do you mean? It's a transaction in black & white.
[2016-09-07 15:45:53] rapidtrades : idk guess i have to check my records
[2016-09-07 15:46:19] rapidtrades : it's my impression that longs are getting a better deal
[2016-09-07 15:47:13] zanza : Sam did you ever consider having the funding rate calculated off ONLY the difference between INDEX and MARK ?
[2016-09-07 15:47:49] sleger : what would be mark in that case ?
[2016-09-07 15:48:06] zanza : so, if index is 610, mark is 611 611/610 - 1 = .00163
[2016-09-07 15:48:20] sleger : where does 611 come from ?
[2016-09-07 15:48:40] zanza : say 610 is current INDEX (spot) and 610 is current MARK
[2016-09-07 15:48:45] lockhedge : zanza: you mean index and market? only based on the premium index?
[2016-09-07 15:48:53] sleger : mark is not market
[2016-09-07 15:49:03] zanza : say 610 is current INDEX (spot) and 611 is current MARK
[2016-09-07 15:49:12] zanza : (thats is the correct version what it should read as )
[2016-09-07 15:49:18] zanza : mark is not market
[2016-09-07 15:49:23] zanza : let me think about that
[2016-09-07 15:49:48] zanza : yes lockhedge, so you could skip outside data sources for interest
[2016-09-07 15:50:28] zanza : Funding would not be reliant on Poloniex or BitFinex interest rates
[2016-09-07 15:51:12] sleger : it wouldnt be very different from what it is now
[2016-09-07 15:51:18] lockhedge : agree that it does not make sense to use bitfinex swaps as underlying interest rates
[2016-09-07 15:51:44] sleger : the current funding is mostly based on premium already
[2016-09-07 15:52:31] BitMEX_Greg : zanza: We need to have a premium index attached too, when we didn't we had a lot of DPE
[2016-09-07 15:54:12] rapidtrades : yeah zanza's idea is stupid
[2016-09-07 15:55:09] zanza : ty rapidtrades
[2016-09-07 15:55:26] rapidtrades : yw
[2016-09-07 15:56:56] rapidtrades : $616.37 <spot the outlier
[2016-09-07 15:57:23] lockhedge : zanza's sugestion makes sense for xbtusd, more illiquid swaps probably need an external reference.
[2016-09-07 15:58:04] zanza : https://bfxdata.com/sentiment/longshort.php
[2016-09-07 15:58:05] rapidtrades : how does it make sense? index and mark trade very close
[2016-09-07 15:58:21] rapidtrades : zanza: noone cares above buttfinex anymore
[2016-09-07 15:58:38] zanza : if Mark is higher than Index, then funding is positive. If Mark is lower than Index, then funding is negative
[2016-09-07 15:59:05] rapidtrades : but mark doesn't capture the premium/discount
[2016-09-07 16:00:56] rapidtrades : has anyone gone back to trade on buttfinex?
[2016-09-07 16:01:31] BitMEX_Sam : You are confusing mark price (which is simply index + next period's premium * decay) vs impact mid price
[2016-09-07 16:02:15] BitMEX_Sam : Funding is not calculated on mark's deviation from index - that would be nonsensical as we set mark. It's calculated on impact mid's deviation from mark.
[2016-09-07 16:03:17] rapidtrades : see zanza? ur talking nonsense again
[2016-09-07 16:04:40] Tetsuo : BTC will lift off hard SOONISH. Bear REKT incoming
[2016-09-07 16:04:48] zanza : i need precious metals to drop in price, can you do a rain dance for me rapidtrades ?
[2016-09-07 16:08:47] zanza : i can't believe Finex is gaining so much volume , did they ever even announce new security measures? (not keeping everything in hot wallet)
[2016-09-07 16:09:02] zanza : they lied before about it, how do people trust them ?
[2016-09-07 16:09:34] rapidtrades : they're prolly faking volume
[2016-09-07 16:09:41] rapidtrades : that's why i was asking if anyone's back
[2016-09-07 16:10:10] XMRer : do they have triggers sound here?
[2016-09-07 16:11:28] BitMEX_Greg : XMRer: I'm not sure our triggers have sound alerts, something i can bring up to Sam though
[2016-09-07 16:32:08] XMRer : ok
[2016-09-07 16:40:32] CaptainDean : XMR giong down
[2016-09-07 16:40:36] CaptainDean : we broke the 187 resistance
[2016-09-07 16:44:41] CaptainDean : BitMEX_Sam: How's the XMR MM works ? current price is 19050 and it buys at 18557, that's HUGE cut ... kind of ridiculous
[2016-09-07 16:47:15] BitMEX_Greg : CaptainDean: Do you mean maintenance margin?
[2016-09-07 16:47:36] CaptainDean : BitMEX_Greg: sorry about not MM, but the markers
[2016-09-07 16:47:57] CaptainDean : or whatever is it called
[2016-09-07 16:48:02] BitMEX_Greg : market makers?
[2016-09-07 16:48:05] CaptainDean : yes
[2016-09-07 16:48:28] BitMEX_Greg : np sometimes they use the same acronym. Are you just referring to the price difference?
[2016-09-07 16:48:48] CaptainDean : BitMEX_Greg: yeah the spread something is just way off
[2016-09-07 16:48:58] CaptainDean : sometimes*
[2016-09-07 16:49:19] BitMEX_Greg : It's a futures contract with settlement on Friday, so the basis could be one element as to why it is pricing differently
[2016-09-07 16:49:26] BitMEX_Greg : could also be just different flow
[2016-09-07 16:49:57] BitMEX_Greg : or the market maker's position? Maybe they are too long, so trying to incentivise other buyers in the market by pricing down?
[2016-09-07 16:51:16] CaptainDean : BitMEX_Greg: I look at poloniex price ... let's say 190000 and I want to short, .. current buy price is like 18500-18600, i'm just saying i won't trade since the spread is too much. but i'm no pro with all the technicality and MM.
[2016-09-07 16:51:33] CaptainDean : might be the way it's working
[2016-09-07 16:51:46] CaptainDean : I just feel the cut is enormous
[2016-09-07 16:51:54] BitMEX_Greg : It's not a cut
[2016-09-07 16:52:06] CaptainDean : BitMEX_Greg: well it feels like it
[2016-09-07 16:52:46] BitMEX_Greg : The market is pricing where the market is trading, that's all it is
[2016-09-07 16:53:04] BitMEX_Greg : You can always arb it, buy here and sell on polo and make the difference
[2016-09-07 16:53:13] aethlios : CaptainDean: place an ask little higher and wait for a small retrace in polo so your order is hitted.
[2016-09-07 16:54:41] aethlios : slow xmr bleeding, haven't dumped yet.
[2016-09-07 17:03:51] CaptainDean : yeat it will go down futher
[2016-09-07 17:04:32] aethlios : could dump suddenly a lot
[2016-09-07 17:04:50] aethlios : 0.01275 a support
[2016-09-07 17:05:44] aethlios : below that next very strong support 0.007, those are possible entry levels.
[2016-09-07 17:06:04] aethlios : I wait 0.0071 to re-enter my long.
[2016-09-07 17:08:35] REKT : Liquidated long on `XMR7D`: Sell 20 @ 0.018250
[2016-09-07 17:09:07] REKT : Liquidated long on `XMR7D`: Sell 750 @ 0.018067
[2016-09-07 17:17:25] justinlooking : xmREKT
[2016-09-07 17:18:18] CaptainDean : there is two little resistance down the road 1720 and 1682 .. but not much nothing solid
[2016-09-07 17:18:35] CaptainDean : but nothing solid
[2016-09-07 17:18:35] CaptainDean : **
[2016-09-07 17:22:32] aethlios : CaptainDean: xmr top happened when btc pumped to 615. it is a law in crypto, btc up > alts down.
[2016-09-07 17:23:09] aethlios : so if btc keeps going to 800 or above, xmr dumping will contineu
[2016-09-07 17:24:33] justinlooking : bid-side resistance is not a thing. it is called support
[2016-09-07 17:25:57] CaptainDean : aethlios: gotcha ! thanks
[2016-09-07 17:26:06] CaptainDean : justinlooking: thanks, i will educate myself on that
[2016-09-07 17:27:07] aethlios : CaptainDean: but don't plan your trading based on mine or others opinions, we just exchange our market view, I maybe wrong etc.
[2016-09-07 17:27:27] CaptainDean : aethlios: Yeah i know, it's a good advice ;-)
[2016-09-07 17:28:12] aethlios : Yes because the market is unpredictable, we don't know what will happen.
[2016-09-07 17:28:41] justinlooking : have i already complained this month about green sells and red buys in recent trades?
[2016-09-07 17:32:55] habibi : green higher than last price/red lower, white same
[2016-09-07 17:33:35] REKT : Liquidated long on `XMR7D`: Sell 150 @ 0.018001
[2016-09-07 17:35:22] REKT : Liquidated long on `XMR7D`: Sell 4 @ 0.017833 :punch: :whale:
[2016-09-07 17:36:07] REKT : Liquidated long on `XMR7D`: Sell 40 @ 0.017760
[2016-09-07 17:37:16] justinlooking : habibi: yup. but it's backwards to use color to represent price movement in a "time and sales" feature, instead of whether bought and sold. have been trying to adjust for over a year
[2016-09-07 17:37:52] REKT : Liquidated long on `XMR7D`: Sell 26 @ 0.017698
[2016-09-07 17:52:03] aethlios : let's see if btc will pump to 660 now....
[2016-09-07 18:04:50] luckynuke : is there a breakout b0iss ?
[2016-09-07 18:22:03] Tetsuo : in the making
[2016-09-07 18:58:56] BTCDJS : iMessage by iPhone to have circle integration?
[2016-09-07 19:01:07] BTCDJS : If that's true then Bitcoin going to moon
[2016-09-07 19:03:52] Tetsuo : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66WNiQhr3ss
[2016-09-07 19:13:31] zanza : time to list Siacoin
[2016-09-07 19:28:53] BTCDJS : Parently it's true http://www.scmp.com/tech/apps-gaming/article/2016359/apples-imessages-will-be-more-visual-i0s10
[2016-09-07 19:37:11] rapidtrades : noone gives a shit
[2016-09-07 19:44:24] rapidtrades : $617.78 <that's all u need to know
[2016-09-07 19:44:49] rapidtrades : we will need a new crisis in order to decouple from buttfinex
[2016-09-07 19:44:57] rapidtrades : bots are still taking it seriously
[2016-09-07 19:47:33] CaptainDean : XMR back up, 500 BTC wall got buy like some little hot cake
[2016-09-07 19:49:40] rapidtrades : if tokens pump on that bnktothefuture thing it could be a good sell
[2016-09-07 20:19:27] BTCDJS : how come my wallet balance went down when I bought at 611 and current price is above that after funding/rebalancing? shouldn't my balance be up?
[2016-09-07 20:22:37] BitMEX_Sam : BTCDJS: Rebalance is not the same as funding
[2016-09-07 20:22:44] BitMEX_Sam : Rebalance is once a day, funding is 3x.
[2016-09-07 20:22:57] BitMEX_Sam : So your wallet balance hasn't gone up yet because a rebalance has not yet happened - so no profit has been realised.
[2016-09-07 20:23:22] BTCDJS : but a deduction was made?
[2016-09-07 20:24:24] BitMEX_Sam : The deduction was funding
[2016-09-07 20:25:00] BitMEX_Sam : So you have an unrealised profit from the price movement, and a realised loss from the funding. If you closed out the position now , that profit would realise and you'd likely be ahead depending on the price you got.
[2016-09-07 20:25:25] BTCDJS : K
[2016-09-07 20:58:26] rapidtrades : boiled eggs has to be the saddest meal ever
[2016-09-07 21:27:51] rapidtrades : $618.95 < market not taking buttfinex as srsly anymore
[2016-09-07 21:32:19] kogroken : Not many bitcoins left there anymore...
[2016-09-07 21:41:15] rapidtrades : kogroken: do u keep track of how much is left? last time it was 40k ish
[2016-09-07 21:50:22] kogroken : Looks like there's 2.6k bitcoins at sale for under $1000 on bfx
[2016-09-07 21:55:40] rapidtrades : welp....
[2016-09-07 21:55:51] daveberns1 : Whoa we get charged a funding fee 3x per day?!!
[2016-09-07 21:56:00] rapidtrades : lol are u srs
[2016-09-07 21:56:19] daveberns1 : No wonder xbt is trading below spot
[2016-09-07 21:56:52] daveberns1 : I have avoided the perpetual contracts until recently
[2016-09-07 21:57:31] kogroken : daveberns1: On the other hand, if you short you will receive the fee that longs pay. It's dynamically calculated.
[2016-09-07 21:58:35] daveberns1 : But it's gotta be 1/3 daily funding * 3
[2016-09-07 21:58:47] daveberns1 : Not daily rate * 3
[2016-09-07 21:59:48] Rado : daveberns1: what is *3?
[2016-09-07 22:00:07] kogroken : It can also be negative as well, if you hover over the funding value in the UI it shows the predicted funding for the next 8h period, currently that is negative (that is, longs will get paid and shorts have to pay)
[2016-09-07 22:00:15] Rado : there is no multiplying
[2016-09-07 22:01:22] daveberns1 : Hmmm. 1/3 daily funding rate charged 3 times per day
[2016-09-07 22:01:48] Rado : it'a not 1/3
[2016-09-07 22:01:56] Rado : the full funding rate is charged every 8 hours
[2016-09-07 22:02:06] kogroken : There's no daily rate as far as I know
[2016-09-07 22:02:13] Rado : correct
[2016-09-07 22:02:23] Rado : the rate is not daily
[2016-09-07 22:02:57] BitMEX_Greg : There is a rate that is charged every 8 hours. That rate you see changes from period to period and is that interval rate (that is, it is not a % per day or annualized %)
[2016-09-07 22:03:20] BitMEX_Greg : sorry that was a % ) there not %)
[2016-09-07 22:03:40] Rado : lol
[2016-09-07 22:03:45] Rado : %)
[2016-09-07 22:12:29] rapidtrades : dam the one in 14h gonna sting for shorts
[2016-09-07 22:16:11] Boontjie : rapidtrades: ugh
[2016-09-07 22:16:46] Boontjie : we have 6 more hours for some correction
[2016-09-07 22:36:29] sleger : what happened to the premium of xbt ?
[2016-09-07 22:42:59] rapidtrades : $619.27 <buttfinex
[2016-09-07 22:54:43] micmix : funding rate swings are crazy
[2016-09-07 23:03:19] sleger : yeah i dont even know if i want to keep a xbt short just because for a few days it might be crazy <0
[2016-09-07 23:03:38] sleger : every day more and more people complain about it it seems
[2016-09-07 23:13:30] micmix : if they don't list new quanto quarterly I'll have to change what I'm doing here. I'll leave one smallish MM and run an algo to collect funding fee with fully hedged positions
[2016-09-07 23:14:42] micmix : funding fees are extreme on alts
[2016-09-07 23:17:58] rapidtrades : micmix: they may be but spreads are high too
[2016-09-07 23:18:30] rapidtrades : do u think it will be worth it?
[2016-09-07 23:20:57] micmix : a bot can build position using limit orders without crossing the spread. I did some simulations and it seems to be worth it even if you pay up to 1% to switch your hedge from short to long or vice versa
[2016-09-07 23:22:48] micmix : but AFAIK they are changing funding calculations for alts, so I don't know
[2016-09-07 23:24:33] sleger : it has became a real casino
[2016-09-07 23:37:14] micmix : I'm not sure why they don't want to continue with weekly futures. I think they collect more fees on weeklies bc people re-enter positions every week
[2016-09-07 23:43:32] sleger : funny that chinese exchanges understand that better
[2016-09-07 23:45:41] rapidtrades : doesn't the swap generate more volume?
[2016-09-07 23:51:24] BitMEX_Greg : We're trying to consolidate liquidity into one product than fragment it across different time frames. The purpose of this is to enhance spreads
[2016-09-07 23:53:00] rapidtrades : we want another quanto
[2016-09-07 23:56:45] kogroken : Quantos were fun, but liquidity is first priority IMHO
[2016-09-08 00:03:27] sleger : we want longer term futures, doesnt have to be quanto
[2016-09-08 00:04:20] BitMEX_Arthur : sleger: Take a look at Testnet we will be launching them on the XBJ series
[2016-09-08 00:04:24] BitMEX_Arthur : you will get a full curve
[2016-09-08 00:04:37] BitMEX_Arthur : and we can see if there really is demand or just a few of you who want these things
[2016-09-08 00:05:09] BitMEX_Arthur : They will be inverse each one worth 100 JPY
[2016-09-08 00:06:38] sleger : but i dont live in japan
[2016-09-08 00:06:45] sleger : nobody wants to trade against jpy
[2016-09-08 00:06:49] billyboy402 : So no xbu but your going to add xbj .... So that btc/jpy?
[2016-09-08 00:07:16] micmix : inverse and JPY exposure? ok...
[2016-09-08 00:07:38] billyboy402 : Yea I find that strange . Usd I can underwater stand . Hell even euro or pound but not jpy
[2016-09-08 00:09:13] BitMEX_Arthur : we already have a daily XBJ
[2016-09-08 00:09:22] BitMEX_Arthur : you can try it out XBJ24H
[2016-09-08 00:10:40] sleger : but i dont want exposure to usdjpy
[2016-09-08 00:11:01] sleger : that wont work, but it wont be because people dont want futures
[2016-09-08 00:13:01] micmix : agree with sleger, XBJ24H is not trading that well but XBT24H was super popular
[2016-09-08 00:14:46] micmix : what's the plan with xmr/etc? keep 7d and switch to swap if polo opens margin trading?
[2016-09-08 00:15:24] BitMEX_Arthur : micmix: Yes
[2016-09-08 00:15:31] sleger : swap is horrible for alts, i opened a 10k long eth but im closing it completely and opening it on polo due to huge unpredictable annoying funding
[2016-09-08 00:16:01] BitMEX_Arthur : and pay your favourite settlement fees?
[2016-09-08 00:16:19] sleger : some exchanges have normal settlement fees
[2016-09-08 00:16:21] BitMEX_Arthur : my first sentence got lost, you would prefer to roll over every week
[2016-09-08 00:16:47] sleger : i personally prefer monthly/quaterly futures. Rolling is ok
[2016-09-08 00:17:02] sleger : although it would be easy to make a swap market to make it easier
[2016-09-08 00:18:51] BitMEX_Arthur : sleger: when you have higher leverage than polo of course the funding rates will be higher
[2016-09-08 00:18:56] daveberns1 : agree, qtrly futures are ideal
[2016-09-08 00:19:06] daveberns1 : but there are other places for these
[2016-09-08 00:19:24] sleger : if 0kcoin had quaterly fut for eth yes I think I would use that
[2016-09-08 00:20:02] daveberns1 : you dont like CF? they just got a nice round of funding
[2016-09-08 00:20:03] daveberns1 : should continue to innovate
[2016-09-08 00:20:20] mjones : fct orderbook is lopsided
[2016-09-08 00:20:22] sleger : BitMEX_Arthur: funding rates higher is not the biggest problem, its the fact that they are unpredictable. eth went down and the premium was >0
[2016-09-08 00:20:40] sleger : daveberns1: what is "CF" ?
[2016-09-08 00:20:53] mjones : someone should market sell 1 FCT for the lulz
[2016-09-08 00:21:34] BitMEX_Arthur : Why does the premium have to turn into a discount just because ETH goes down
[2016-09-08 00:21:38] rapidtrades : sleger: child free
[2016-09-08 00:22:06] daveberns1 : cryptofacilities
[2016-09-08 00:22:06] daveberns1 : lol
[2016-09-08 00:22:12] sleger : BitMEX_Arthur: because that's how it usually is. Then why is it sometimes >0 sometimes <0 ?
[2016-09-08 00:23:00] BitMEX_Arthur : Well then sell into the market and force it to trade at a discount
[2016-09-08 00:23:03] rapidtrades : well i want a quanto
[2016-09-08 00:23:18] BitMEX_Arthur : You guys have XBTU16 it isn't trading much though
[2016-09-08 00:23:22] sleger : I want to be long, I dont want to sell
[2016-09-08 00:23:41] BitMEX_Arthur : sleger: We can't design a system for just one side of the trade
[2016-09-08 00:23:43] sleger : I'm fine with U16 and like it as such.
[2016-09-08 00:23:55] rapidtrades : if u want to be long just hold coins wtf
[2016-09-08 00:24:08] rapidtrades : that's the easiest thing u don't even need to be here
[2016-09-08 00:24:26] sleger : leverage ?
[2016-09-08 00:24:31] nip : sleger: just because your long doesnt mean ETH will go up
[2016-09-08 00:25:17] rapidtrades : how much leverage can u use tho? im assuming u will be taking a longterm view
[2016-09-08 00:25:29] sleger : rapidtrades: im fine with 2-3
[2016-09-08 00:25:29] rapidtrades : so it will have a wide stop as is
[2016-09-08 00:25:58] sleger : nip: actually it does, just as much as your comment sounds stupid
[2016-09-08 00:26:33] nip : sleger: cant design an instrument for 1 side
[2016-09-08 00:26:41] rapidtrades : i'll have to go back to okc i think
[2016-09-08 00:26:44] sleger : BitMEX_Arthur: If I wanted to be short eth it wouldnt work as well, for exactly the same reason
[2016-09-08 00:26:59] nip : short would have worked
[2016-09-08 00:27:06] rapidtrades : it's 20/1 leverage so if the f*ckers go down i wouldn't lose much
[2016-09-08 00:28:46] sleger : BitMEX_Arthur: Many people in the last days have complained about the funding rates. The main issue is that they are not predictable / people cant lock them like they do with futures.
[2016-09-08 00:29:07] rapidtrades : do u think swap costs u more to long then say okc futures? i haven't kept track exactly @sleger
[2016-09-08 00:29:26] sleger : rapidtrades: yes long xbt, you can expect to pay 150% pa
[2016-09-08 00:29:44] rapidtrades : i doubt that's true
[2016-09-08 00:30:10] sleger : then open excel download the historical funding, understand how to write a formula and once all that is done you'll see
[2016-09-08 00:30:18] rapidtrades : before this breakout higher i was paying fees as a short
[2016-09-08 00:30:26] rapidtrades : some as high as 0.25%
[2016-09-08 00:31:10] sleger : and during the strong breakout in june, longs paid >1% 3x per day for many days
[2016-09-08 00:31:20] rapidtrades : right
[2016-09-08 00:31:43] rapidtrades : so it's cyclical, if we go down u pay fees as short, if we go up u collect
[2016-09-08 00:32:15] BitMEX_Arthur : sleger: But there was 50x leverage during a 50% price rise, vs. a 3x margin trade ofc the rates would be higher
[2016-09-08 00:32:16] sleger : there is a strong correlation usually yes, between price returns and premium
[2016-09-08 00:32:58] rapidtrades : sleger: so what do u propose?
[2016-09-08 00:33:04] sleger : BitMEX_Arthur: I'm not sure what you're answering to, but it sounds like you're mixing 2 convos here
[2016-09-08 00:33:23] BitMEX_Arthur : sleger: I'm just saying the rates were high dude to leverage and a strong upward trend
[2016-09-08 00:33:47] sleger : so you're forgetting about my problem with eth ?
[2016-09-08 00:33:57] rapidtrades : i somewhat agree with arthur....even okc futures trade at premium or discount depending on trend
[2016-09-08 00:34:11] sleger : the rates on xbt is a separate convo where i answered a question rapid asked
[2016-09-08 00:34:30] sleger : rapidtrades: yes they do, although that's not what he said