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[2016-06-12 23:05:29] 1QaZxSw2 : which sucks, because the good trades are subsidizing the newbies
[2016-06-12 23:06:04] 1QaZxSw2 : DPE on the june contract is zero
[2016-06-12 23:07:23] 1QaZxSw2 : do you know if we will continue to have the quartierlies or everything will turn into perpetual swap
[2016-06-12 23:08:41] rapidtrades : well arthur set the bar at 100 btc per day...and now we're above that
[2016-06-12 23:08:45] j8 : they wanted to get rid of them because they don't have tons of liquidity and the swap was supposed to be magical
[2016-06-12 23:08:48] rapidtrades : so let's hope he keeps his word :)
[2016-06-12 23:09:25] rapidtrades : when he gave his word they traded like 10 btc each tho :)
[2016-06-12 23:09:45] 1QaZxSw2 : 10 btc per day?
[2016-06-12 23:09:46] j8 : and now they've added XBT/JPY, which no one asked for... so i think they should keep them
[2016-06-12 23:11:11] Yumi : 700 was a perfect short, who would guess..
[2016-06-12 23:11:35] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 4000 @ 679.54
[2016-06-12 23:11:35] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 2476 @ 677.90
[2016-06-12 23:11:48] 1QaZxSw2 : nothing but bots on XBJ
[2016-06-12 23:12:28] messiaen8844 : lets rip that premium
[2016-06-12 23:12:32] rapidtrades : looks like we're done for now...$700 was key as suspected
[2016-06-12 23:12:53] 1QaZxSw2 : this is good for 700 sellers
[2016-06-12 23:12:56] messiaen8844 : $680 spot strong weekly resistance
[2016-06-12 23:13:04] 1QaZxSw2 : DPE will go back to normal i hope
[2016-06-12 23:13:06] Yumi : I guess its ment for japanese traders, so vol will pick up when they advertise it there
[2016-06-12 23:13:48] BitMEX_Arthur : Yumi: Yes that is correct, Quoine will be offering this product to its Japanese traders
[2016-06-12 23:13:59] BitMEX_Arthur : We will release more information about the project once everything is live
[2016-06-12 23:14:04] j8 : 657.75 is where the liquidation is
[2016-06-12 23:14:17] 1QaZxSw2 : btw, when you guys say there is no liquidity on the old futures product, do you mean the spread was large?
[2016-06-12 23:14:38] 1QaZxSw2 : or that nobody but bots trading
[2016-06-12 23:14:56] justinlooking : more that the size is low
[2016-06-12 23:14:56] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Arthur: are we keeping 3m and 6m :) they're now over 100 btc
[2016-06-12 23:15:27] j8 : 1QaZxSw2: there were always secondary to the main liquid contract. plus the long quanto's are really volatile and difficult to price
[2016-06-12 23:16:54] BitMEX_Arthur : today's volume on june and sept was impressive i have to say, it really boils down to market makers, i still haven't seen any trader(s) step up and provide meaningful 24/7 liquidity
[2016-06-12 23:17:09] BitMEX_Arthur : but we are discussing it internally, no decision has been made yet
[2016-06-12 23:17:54] BitMEX_Arthur : as @j8 said, they are very difficult to price
[2016-06-12 23:19:01] 1QaZxSw2 : If you iron out the swap issues, there is no need for long term contracts
[2016-06-12 23:19:14] 1QaZxSw2 : after all, i can just hold the swap for as long as i like
[2016-06-12 23:19:58] Yumi : they are differently structured contracts
[2016-06-12 23:20:15] 1QaZxSw2 : right of course yumi.
[2016-06-12 23:20:43] Yumi : futrue vs swap, quanto vs inverse, one has funding fee
[2016-06-12 23:20:58] 1QaZxSw2 : maybe today is an anomaly, but the DPE is ridiculous
[2016-06-12 23:21:15] 1QaZxSw2 : yumi, for a trader, its all about getting exposure to movement of the underlying
[2016-06-12 23:21:19] j8 : i really like the fact that they're quanto, as illiquid as they are they're still the most liquid bitcoin volatility product
[2016-06-12 23:22:16] rapidtrades : +1
[2016-06-12 23:22:17] 1QaZxSw2 : so its a swap. do you think the avg fomo trader thinks anything other than buy here and sell there
[2016-06-12 23:22:24] Yumi : but for future contract I can lock premium rate for 6months and swap funding changes every 8hrs
[2016-06-12 23:22:36] rapidtrades : +11
[2016-06-12 23:23:02] 1QaZxSw2 : ya, i like quanto, but thats because im bullish
[2016-06-12 23:23:09] 1QaZxSw2 : its a bad deal for bears
[2016-06-12 23:23:13] rapidtrades : i think there's gotta be a discount soon no?
[2016-06-12 23:23:27] rapidtrades : we have 0.8% now plus 1.1% later
[2016-06-12 23:23:42] rapidtrades : almost 2% hit to bullz by rebalance
[2016-06-12 23:24:01] lockhedge : BitMEX_Arthur: would it be possible to create a fixed-for-floating interest swap product for long term holders in addition to XBTUSD?
[2016-06-12 23:24:25] Yumi : rapidtrades: I guess it depends if we pump to new highs or not, fomo strong with traders here
[2016-06-12 23:25:35] rapidtrades : guess it doesn't matter....i'll either get it as price gain or fee
[2016-06-12 23:26:22] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 100 @ 672.78
[2016-06-12 23:26:23] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 80 @ 673.17
[2016-06-12 23:26:23] REKT : Choppy waters make solid seamen!
[2016-06-12 23:26:23] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 500 @ 673.62
[2016-06-12 23:26:37] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 4679 @ 671.57
[2016-06-12 23:26:53] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTM16`: Sell 311 @ 684.72
[2016-06-12 23:26:53] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBJ24H`: Sell 62 @ 70691.00000
[2016-06-12 23:26:55] wurstgelee : nice
[2016-06-12 23:26:56] wurstgelee : :D
[2016-06-12 23:27:48] 1QaZxSw2 : the swap has some good featurs (perpetual,payments, dollar denominated) but it also has some problems (high DPE, mark price way off trade price)
[2016-06-12 23:28:21] 1QaZxSw2 : my suggestion is fix these issues please.
[2016-06-12 23:28:25] rapidtrades : DPE will always be this high, its not a swap thing
[2016-06-12 23:28:41] rapidtrades : its leverage plus bad execution method
[2016-06-12 23:29:00] 1QaZxSw2 : this is bigger than income tax in many countries
[2016-06-12 23:29:14] 1QaZxSw2 : they have to fix this
[2016-06-12 23:29:45] rapidtrades : the only way to fix it is by cutting leverage which they wont do
[2016-06-12 23:30:25] 1QaZxSw2 : well, if my gains are negated by DPE, what advantahe does the high leverage giv e me
[2016-06-12 23:30:46] rapidtrades : nothing, its a subsidy for losers and gamblors
[2016-06-12 23:30:49] 1QaZxSw2 : its attracting newbies, who just click max leverage and keep losing
[2016-06-12 23:30:56] rapidtrades : no shit
[2016-06-12 23:31:45] rapidtrades : i think we'll see an industry wide change soon for futures clawback
[2016-06-12 23:32:01] rapidtrades : if this rally doesn't cause disaster, another one will
[2016-06-12 23:32:14] rapidtrades : its simply not sustainble to execute orders in this waay
[2016-06-12 23:32:21] 1QaZxSw2 : couple of exchanges are out there who dont do clawback
[2016-06-12 23:32:39] rapidtrades : like who
[2016-06-12 23:32:50] 1QaZxSw2 : cryptofacilities and coinpit
[2016-06-12 23:32:56] rapidtrades : k
[2016-06-12 23:33:06] rapidtrades : noone's gonna trade there
[2016-06-12 23:33:33] 1QaZxSw2 : because?
[2016-06-12 23:33:45] rapidtrades : it sounds gay
[2016-06-12 23:34:33] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : Is sleger around?
[2016-06-12 23:35:25] 1QaZxSw2 : well no one was trading on bitmex for 6 months after they opened
[2016-06-12 23:35:26] j8 : he left angrily
[2016-06-12 23:36:02] 1QaZxSw2 : so you never know.... but you are right about clawbacks, they may attract regulation
[2016-06-12 23:36:53] 1QaZxSw2 : i was hoping the swap would eliminate the DPE
[2016-06-12 23:36:57] micmix : j8: sleger left completely? I missed that.
[2016-06-12 23:37:00] 1QaZxSw2 : because the interest payment
[2016-06-12 23:37:09] 1QaZxSw2 : would counter the premium
[2016-06-12 23:37:17] j8 : micmix: he didn't close his position on june, i would have noticed
[2016-06-12 23:37:30] 1QaZxSw2 : sleger is a whale?
[2016-06-12 23:37:47] micmix : yeah, he said 100k short
[2016-06-12 23:38:06] j8 : but he was quite upset about the sudden change, then later said he closed his long on the swap and wasn't gonna trade here anymore. and we haven't heard from him since
[2016-06-12 23:39:10] 1QaZxSw2 : maybe if they drop the leverage to 10x
[2016-06-12 23:39:20] 1QaZxSw2 : DPE will be down to 5%
[2016-06-12 23:39:26] 1QaZxSw2 : i could live with that
[2016-06-12 23:40:14] micmix : he'll probably ride his short til expiry then withdraw everything. that's too bad, I'll miss sleger
[2016-06-12 23:41:26] j8 : yeah, i get why he's mad.
[2016-06-12 23:43:22] micmix : yeah, I understand but tbh swap looked like a beta product, I wouldn't risk entering such big positions
[2016-06-12 23:43:40] j8 : yeah, there were so many red flags from the start
[2016-06-12 23:43:57] 1QaZxSw2 : such as?
[2016-06-12 23:44:04] j8 : plus 20% DPE on the same day. not fun
[2016-06-12 23:45:56] j8 : 1QaZxSw2: before it launched it was clear that it wouldn't work. we had long discussions in the chat where i explained how the DPE risk would be massive if the swap didn't track spot, and i argued that it was likely it would diverge
[2016-06-12 23:46:20] 1QaZxSw2 : ah, ok
[2016-06-12 23:46:50] 1QaZxSw2 : so a swap without leverage would have worked great
[2016-06-12 23:46:54] j8 : i couldn't understand how it was related to the spot price at all, except in terms of unrealised pnl
[2016-06-12 23:47:54] j8 : and there's no way to arbitrage the premium that doesn't involve letting yourself get liquidated, and since there's a premium that liquidation is gonna be way behind the market and won't fill
[2016-06-12 23:48:36] j8 : their response to all this was basically that of course it would track spot so don't worry
[2016-06-12 23:48:43] lockhedge : it's related to spot, but the index components currently have a range from 669 to 686
[2016-06-12 23:49:08] j8 : and if it diverged, they would do something like change the way rates are set to bring it in line with spot
[2016-06-12 23:50:32] 1QaZxSw2 : how is that even possible? They would fiddle with the interest payments?
[2016-06-12 23:50:41] 1QaZxSw2 : like on a live contract?
[2016-06-12 23:50:55] j8 : they did it last night
[2016-06-12 23:51:12] j8 : changed the calculation completely in an aggressive way
[2016-06-12 23:51:24] 1QaZxSw2 : way to f___ your users
[2016-06-12 23:51:35] j8 : with like 12 hours notice
[2016-06-12 23:51:39] j8 : less even
[2016-06-12 23:52:50] j8 : in the middle of this crazy price action too.
[2016-06-12 23:53:01] j8 : now nobody knows what they're doing trading this thing
[2016-06-12 23:54:35] 1QaZxSw2 : first of all, i don't think most traders even understand what a swap is. they probably think its an unexpiring futures
[2016-06-12 23:55:35] 1QaZxSw2 : second, i dont see the reason for the premium in a inverse contract
[2016-06-12 23:55:43] 1QaZxSw2 : at least not this big
[2016-06-12 23:56:35] 1QaZxSw2 : third, i dont know how the interest rate can ever be calculated to bring the mark price in line with spot, unless its a turn the wheel till it reaches it approach
[2016-06-12 23:57:07] j8 : theoretically the premium would be related to the difference in actual lending market rates, but with high leverage things get out of control. it's just supply and demand in the end
[2016-06-12 23:58:03] 1QaZxSw2 : what they should actually do is to reduce leverage to 5x. and maybe also tie it to spot somehow
[2016-06-12 23:58:18] j8 : and for an infinite duration contract that trades freely it's hard to interpret the premium as being related to interest rates in a straightforward way
[2016-06-12 23:58:50] 1QaZxSw2 : basically a perpetual swap is a proxy for spot but leveraged
[2016-06-12 23:58:53] arbitrage001 : premium mostly due to capital control in china
[2016-06-12 23:59:18] arbitrage001 : if money can move freely in china, dont think it will be this high
[2016-06-12 23:59:19] j8 : 1QaZxSw2: yes, there needs to be a channel for arbitrage though
[2016-06-13 00:00:02] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTM16`: Buy 1000 @ 710.70
[2016-06-13 00:00:04] 1QaZxSw2 : i think the real issue is that its overleveraged, leading to very high number of liquidations, leading to high DPE, pissing off traders
[2016-06-13 00:00:09] Yumi : if its only ment for gambler type of trader who doesnt care about anything just a chance to win big its a fine product, but for serious trader is close to not tradable
[2016-06-13 00:00:47] 1QaZxSw2 : i gambled a bit on this, but i find it pretty much untradeable. i only won today because of the crazy
[2016-06-13 00:01:01] 1QaZxSw2 : crazy move up
[2016-06-13 00:01:25] 1QaZxSw2 : i think reducing the leverage may make it an ok product
[2016-06-13 00:01:41] 1QaZxSw2 : still has issues, but low DPE may bring more traders
[2016-06-13 00:01:47] Yumi : but majority wants as big leverage as possible
[2016-06-13 00:01:52] j8 : the thing is, they had 100x futures which were perfectly fine
[2016-06-13 00:02:07] 1QaZxSw2 : why did they change it
[2016-06-13 00:02:08] rapidtrades : ffs not that shit again
[2016-06-13 00:02:10] j8 : people just didn't like entering a new position every day
[2016-06-13 00:02:13] rapidtrades : they were not fine
[2016-06-13 00:02:13] jung1 : hello
[2016-06-13 00:02:29] jung1 : so officiall halving pump started?
[2016-06-13 00:02:33] j8 : the fees involved were too high.
[2016-06-13 00:02:54] Yumi : its very simple if 90% of traders want 100x and are fine with DPE then it will be that way
[2016-06-13 00:02:59] j8 : but jeez why not do weekly inverse futures like okc, but do it better
[2016-06-13 00:03:05] rapidtrades : in the past year alone there was two 20-30% dpe before the swap
[2016-06-13 00:03:19] rapidtrades : its tied to volaility not the product
[2016-06-13 00:03:30] arbitrage001 : j8: lending rate were high on finex in the old day
[2016-06-13 00:03:39] rapidtrades : happened in november/decemner its happening now
[2016-06-13 00:03:40] arbitrage001 : consistently 1-3% a day
[2016-06-13 00:04:43] arbitrage001 : and they had 5 times leverage if i remember right
[2016-06-13 00:04:53] j8 : rapidtrades: the DPE last august was really before there was any liquidity on the exchange.. there was basically one time since it's been similar to now
[2016-06-13 00:05:31] rapidtrades : if u don't want DPE u have to dump shit at the market....but in order for that to be viable u prolly have to reduce leverage so liqs are smaller and happen less often
[2016-06-13 00:05:38] rapidtrades : j8: I SAID NOVEMBER DECEMBER
[2016-06-13 00:05:48] j8 : the structure of the swap means thats DPE will be a chronic problem
[2016-06-13 00:05:57] rapidtrades : i don't agree
[2016-06-13 00:06:02] rapidtrades : that swap is problem
[2016-06-13 00:06:04] j8 : not only when there's volatility and poor liquidity
[2016-06-13 00:07:07] j8 : when you don't mark to market, you automatically have a worse chance of filling liquidations favourably
[2016-06-13 00:07:19] rapidtrades : prolly true
[2016-06-13 00:07:49] arbitrage001 : long will pay this dpe again?
[2016-06-13 00:07:50] Yumi : reason for troubles - mark price was so far from order book, they try to fix with by charging premium in swap funding
[2016-06-13 00:07:50] rapidtrades : but the deciding factor is volaility...there were no issues with the swap until today
[2016-06-13 00:08:09] ayy_lmao : https://matias.ma/nsfw/
[2016-06-13 00:08:10] ayy_lmao : your welcome
[2016-06-13 00:08:15] ayy_lmao : you're
[2016-06-13 00:08:56] j8 : lots of insurance fund was spent on one of the previous legs up
[2016-06-13 00:09:43] j8 : as soon as the swap was live, the insurance fund stopped increasing and started decreasing
[2016-06-13 00:10:31] jung1 : kurwa, ayy_Imao
[2016-06-13 00:10:37] jung1 : we are serious traders
[2016-06-13 00:10:44] arbitrage001 : when this rally end, i suspect both long and short will both angry
[2016-06-13 00:10:48] jung1 : with funny internet money
[2016-06-13 00:11:23] ayy_lmao : lol
[2016-06-13 00:12:05] Mr Blue : I don't see how long could be angry, I've only been away like 5 hours and its up $17
[2016-06-13 00:12:28] jung1 : so you guys think that halving pump begin?
[2016-06-13 00:12:33] jung1 : already
[2016-06-13 00:13:10] Mr Blue : jung1: it started last year mate, but true pump will be a month after halving if it starts to happen
[2016-06-13 00:13:25] jung1 : yeah I know
[2016-06-13 00:13:51] jung1 : good time to buy factom/eth lisk
[2016-06-13 00:14:26] Yumi : its always good time to buy shitcoins
[2016-06-13 00:14:31] Mr Blue : Bears will be angry though, the priumum in price will of been to attract shorters, it didn't fool me but you can't blame them for trying lol
[2016-06-13 00:15:20] Mr Blue : I called 670 ;-) well for coinbase at least
[2016-06-13 00:15:51] arbitrage001 : Mr Blue: the swap is basically USD
[2016-06-13 00:16:02] justinlooking : increasing grouping on factom makes the bid disappeaer (presumably coz theres only 1 price to group)
[2016-06-13 00:16:22] arbitrage001 : Mr Blue: people who short using 1 to 1 leverage will not lose any money other than dpe
[2016-06-13 00:17:03] Mr Blue : arbitrage001: true but who uses x1 leverage? I have other exchanges for that lol
[2016-06-13 00:17:21] arbitrage001 : Mr Blue: when rate is this high, many do
[2016-06-13 00:17:30] arbitrage001 : are you sure you know what you are doing?
[2016-06-13 00:18:10] Mr Blue : erm I'm not in a position at the moment mate, and ye pretty sure lol but thanks for the offer of help
[2016-06-13 00:18:26] Yumi : I used to arbitrage with bitfinex but when there were 50btc in found and not 10% outstanding DPE and empty found
[2016-06-13 00:19:35] Yumi : if there would be no profit cuts there would be no premium
[2016-06-13 00:20:04] Mr Blue : arbitrage001: I didn't short if that's what you was thinking, I new it was going up lol, just saying the premium over spot will of been to catch bears as it did look attractive to short for the untrained eye
[2016-06-13 00:23:19] Mr Blue : Yumi: I'm still new here, but I seen j8 say something about bitmex has investment to conver any loss from yesterday, so I think fund will get some BTC added again, + hopefully the culled few bears today lol the furs will sell good on the open market
[2016-06-13 00:25:03] Yumi : if there was profit cut yesterday and open DPE atm I understand that fund is empty
[2016-06-13 00:25:14] Mr Blue : I think they should allow spot to move closer to market now though, as risk of a drop is increasing for them.
[2016-06-13 00:26:25] Mr Blue : I mean not keep the premium if market makers after lucky enough for spot to join market price here
[2016-06-13 00:26:36] Mr Blue : are lucky*
[2016-06-13 00:28:10] Yumi : I dont trade the swap anyway
[2016-06-13 00:29:25] Mr Blue : Yumi: was big buying at 580/585 yesterday before pump, somebody made over $100,000 profit here for sure lol
[2016-06-13 00:29:45] Yumi : its good for gamble with 50x (or used to 100x) and thats it
[2016-06-13 00:30:40] Mr Blue : Yumi: x50 is too risky for me, x10 seems to be my average at the moment, but I've been known to go x35
[2016-06-13 00:30:49] Yumi : if you hit the top/bottom of the move you win big and if you are wrong you lose little and can try again
[2016-06-13 00:32:31] Mr Blue : Yumi: true or lose alot if you got greedy lol, I like to keep 50% of my funds incase price swings and I need to buy more to lower my average
[2016-06-13 00:32:48] Yumi : you dont lose a lot if you put just small % on the line
[2016-06-13 00:32:59] Mr Blue : true
[2016-06-13 00:33:24] Mr Blue : brb guys 420 time for me ;-)
[2016-06-13 00:34:31] Yumi : like today you see we were getting close to 700 here so you put isolated margin short at 700 at 50x, high chance for it to be top and you have high margin of error since mark price is 10-15 usd lower
[2016-06-13 00:35:01] Yumi : if you are wrong you get liq and try again another time
[2016-06-13 00:36:57] Mr Blue : better to not set orders at this point, yesterday was fine but today too risky, if I'm buying/selling I'll be doing it at a time I can actually see the spot price, not when I'm alseep,, but its normally fine, we've just seen hyper action past 24h
[2016-06-13 00:38:22] rapidtrades : do we have any idea what will be the next fee? i assume the max 1.1%
[2016-06-13 00:38:23] Yumi : its not good to sleep with swap position open since bitmex changes the rules with only few hrs notice
[2016-06-13 00:42:08] j8 : rapidtrades: so far yeah the average is probably around 1.5%, still 3 hours left
[2016-06-13 00:42:25] Yumi : 687 buy vs 668 index, yea looks like max ;)
[2016-06-13 00:43:59] arbitrage001 : rapidtrades: think the max fee is per 8 hours
[2016-06-13 00:44:17] arbitrage001 : so multiple by 3 for daily rate
[2016-06-13 00:44:31] arbitrage001 : over 2.5 using projected rate
[2016-06-13 00:44:48] Yumi : maybe there is no max anymore so next rate 2% per 8hrs
[2016-06-13 00:45:04] arbitrage001 : Yumi: they said cap it at 1.25%
[2016-06-13 00:45:10] Yumi : I know
[2016-06-13 00:45:11] arbitrage001 : Yumi: or 1.125
[2016-06-13 00:45:15] Yumi : but who knows
[2016-06-13 00:45:19] arbitrage001 : Yumi: which is per session
[2016-06-13 00:45:32] arbitrage001 : Yumi: i think
[2016-06-13 00:45:37] j8 : it's capped at a change of 0.375%
[2016-06-13 00:45:44] BitMEX_Arthur : The maximum rate is 75% of IM - MM, which is 1.125%
[2016-06-13 00:45:50] Yumi : you cant be sure with bitmex ;)
[2016-06-13 00:45:57] arbitrage001 : j8: only cap at rate of change?
[2016-06-13 00:46:02] BitMEX_Arthur : j8: Is correct it can't change by more tha 0.375% per period
[2016-06-13 00:46:10] arbitrage001 : j8: wouldnt mind getting paid 3-5% a day lol
[2016-06-13 00:46:14] BitMEX_Arthur : Which is 75% of the MM
[2016-06-13 00:46:19] arbitrage001 : BitMEX_Arthur: there is no cap rate?
[2016-06-13 00:46:26] j8 : ok and the absolute rate is also capped at 1.125%?
[2016-06-13 00:46:30] BitMEX_Arthur : correct
[2016-06-13 00:46:38] BitMEX_Arthur : or 75% of IM - MM
[2016-06-13 00:46:45] BitMEX_Arthur : Initial Margin - Maintenance Margin
[2016-06-13 00:46:50] arbitrage001 : 1.125% is per 8 hours cap?
[2016-06-13 00:46:57] arbitrage001 : or per day cap?
[2016-06-13 00:47:05] j8 : arbitrage001: no kidding and you can do it with leverage if you're careful too
[2016-06-13 00:47:15] j8 : sorry a couple comments behind
[2016-06-13 00:47:29] BitMEX_Arthur : arbitrage001: That is the absolute cap
[2016-06-13 00:47:42] BitMEX_Arthur : If the IM and MM levels change, the cap till change as well
[2016-06-13 00:47:49] 1QaZxSw2 : does dpe affect shorts too?
[2016-06-13 00:48:02] arbitrage001 : BitMEX_Arthur: the cap will be hit soon
[2016-06-13 00:48:10] BitMEX_Arthur : 1QaZxSw2: It affects anyone with a realised profit, earnings from funding are not subject to DPE
[2016-06-13 00:48:14] arbitrage001 : BitMEX_Arthur: possibly today if not tomorrow
[2016-06-13 00:48:35] 1QaZxSw2 : so what happens when it hits cap? bitmex is going to pay the shortfall?
[2016-06-13 00:48:46] arbitrage001 : premium is still rather large, and there is no sign of bulll stopping
[2016-06-13 00:49:16] Mr Blue : And you guys missed the action well talking we just hitt 693 here
[2016-06-13 00:49:26] BitMEX_Arthur : 1QaZxSw2: No the cap is the cap
[2016-06-13 00:50:58] Mr Blue : how in the world of god can the Yen of gone up against the Bitcoin, I got to call bullshit on that one
[2016-06-13 00:51:15] 1QaZxSw2 : if this rally goes into mid-july till the halvening, you guys need to figure out how to avoid a 30%+ DPE
[2016-06-13 00:51:43] 1QaZxSw2 : Mr Blue XBJ is just bots for now
[2016-06-13 00:52:08] 1QaZxSw2 : i suggest you dont trade it till its official
[2016-06-13 00:52:20] Yumi : put 5% funding fee per hour for longs = no more premium
[2016-06-13 00:52:42] Mr Blue : 1QaZxSw2: I was +100 ROE now -308 not happy as no way Yen has increased lol
[2016-06-13 00:53:17] 1QaZxSw2 : as much as the DPE sucks, the swap is the most liquid and real product
[2016-06-13 00:53:44] Mr Blue : its saying Yen spot has increased 0.71% how when Bitcoin has increased makes 0 sense
[2016-06-13 00:56:03] Yumi : to talking about mark price?
[2016-06-13 00:56:51] Mr Blue : Yen should be down against the Bitcoin by at least 4262.98 Yen
[2016-06-13 00:57:36] Yumi : if you mean mark price you have to understand how each contract is marked
[2016-06-13 00:57:55] BitMEX_Arthur : Mr Blue: `XBJ24H` uses the Bitcoin / Yen price from Quoine
[2016-06-13 00:57:56] Yumi : but it doesnt matter, just have to focus on order book
[2016-06-13 00:59:57] Mr Blue : BitMEX_Arthur: so your saying every jap just got more buying power? I still don't see how Yen increased against the Bitcoin, but I'm only short 100 yen contacts anyways, I'll be sure to check out quoine mate
[2016-06-13 01:00:36] BitMEX_Arthur : Mr Blue: It's an exchange rate, if the Yen weakens against USD, then Bitcoin will be more expensive in Yen terms all else being equal
[2016-06-13 01:00:52] BitMEX_Arthur : Similar to how there is a premium for XBTCNY because CNY is weakening against the USD
[2016-06-13 01:01:21] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBJ24H`: Sell 1 @ 71375.00000 :punch: :whale:
[2016-06-13 01:02:47] Mr Blue : BitMEX_Arthur: I thought it was bitcoin against yen, not sure how $ got in the mix but guess I should of researched the contract more before jumping in, my thinking was Bitcoin goes up, it costs more yen to buy it, thats why I shorted yen
[2016-06-13 01:02:59] lockhedge : Mr Blue: if you are short XBJ24H you are short Bitcoin and long Yen
[2016-06-13 01:03:24] Mr Blue : lockhedge: WTF
[2016-06-13 01:03:45] lockhedge : it's XBT/JPY not JPY/XBT
[2016-06-13 01:05:53] stf28 : i never understand why witheld profit limits bidding
[2016-06-13 01:06:15] Yumi : because they might take cut of your profits
[2016-06-13 01:06:30] Yumi : and if you lose it what are they gonna take?
[2016-06-13 01:07:20] stf28 : yeah but witheld contains already relaised profit from the day, so why not deduce the loss from it ?
[2016-06-13 01:07:29] Mr Blue : Dude I wanted to short the Yen WTF! @lockhedge so how could buying yen help me to short it?, I sold it... confused lol
[2016-06-13 01:08:07] stf28 : if you trade all your margin back and forth at the end of the day you can't place orders
[2016-06-13 01:09:00] j8 : your initial margin isn't withheld. just profits
[2016-06-13 01:09:18] Yumi : if you trade different contracts its possible yes, but profits/losses from same contract add up
[2016-06-13 01:10:26] j8 : yes, it's a big issue across contracts, especially when we have a big move on the weekend and there's still 5 days until rebalance
[2016-06-13 01:10:44] Yumi : if you have 1 btc and lose 1 btc in swap but also make 1 btc in june contract you will end up with 1 btc in withheld profit
[2016-06-13 01:11:09] j8 : yup. story of my life
[2016-06-13 01:11:11] Mr Blue : lockhedge: if it's XBT I shorted how come I'm -100, surely that's Yen, or at least that's how the offer apeared to me.
[2016-06-13 01:11:17] micmix : lockhedge: how's your MM today? making up for yesterday I hope
[2016-06-13 01:11:21] stf28 : yeah even in one contract
[2016-06-13 01:12:10] stf28 : if you come with 1, make 2, lose 1 you can't play anymore how is that?
[2016-06-13 01:12:47] Yumi : j8: I remember rolling short on daily while having long in monthly and yea ended up with huge withheld profit
[2016-06-13 01:12:47] lockhedge : Mr Blue: if you have a position of -100 XBTJ24H, you are 100 contracts short XBT vs. Yen https://www.bitmex.com/app/contract/XBJ24H
[2016-06-13 01:13:27] Mr Blue : lockhedge: reading now mate brb
[2016-06-13 01:15:15] Yumi : stf28: I cant see your account but there must be something you are missing since it doesnt work that way
[2016-06-13 01:16:38] lockhedge : micmix: couldn't win any losses back yet, but at least the bleeding could be stopped for now.
[2016-06-13 01:16:42] Mr Blue : m fuders, and none of you guys could of told me this when I said I was shorting yen hours ago... guess I sell the crap at a loss
[2016-06-13 01:17:07] stf28 : Yumi: yeah there are lots of things i'm missing
[2016-06-13 01:17:31] stf28 : and they all cost money, never profit ^^
[2016-06-13 01:17:46] Mr Blue : buy back**
[2016-06-13 01:18:54] micmix : lockhedge: I ended up in green yesterday with about 20% of normal daily profit, today looks like about 150% of regular profit
[2016-06-13 01:18:54] Mr Blue : ahh was only cheap anyways lol silly me
[2016-06-13 01:18:58] Yumi : if there are things you dont understand about your account you might always open ticket to support and they might explain it to you as they can see whole picture @stf28
[2016-06-13 01:19:21] Yumi : support is always very helpful
[2016-06-13 01:20:32] stf28 : thanks, i prefer feeling raped
[2016-06-13 01:20:35] Mr Blue : Yumi: +1 but many like to cry in chat, but at least crying noobs shows exchange user growth lol
[2016-06-13 01:21:00] stf28 : i'm french, I need to complain
[2016-06-13 01:21:05] Mr Blue : not calling anybody a noob, was refereing to my self lol
[2016-06-13 01:21:52] stf28 : not a noob, 4th bubble for me ^^
[2016-06-13 01:22:22] stf28 : bitcoin i mean
[2016-06-13 01:22:49] Mr Blue : stf28: cool, I've also been in Bitcoin for years, just new to this place
[2016-06-13 01:23:10] micmix : who's buying sep. for $875?
[2016-06-13 01:23:23] 1QaZxSw2 : insane price
[2016-06-13 01:24:28] 1QaZxSw2 : as they said, hard to price quantos beyond like a week
[2016-06-13 01:24:31] messiaen8844 : oh, didn't see XBJ contract
[2016-06-13 01:24:32] stf28 : type this in your XBTUSD calculator for fun... 875$ x number of contracts you own
[2016-06-13 01:25:07] Yumi : somebody got smart and knows it is still better deal than paying 2-3% daily funding on swap
[2016-06-13 01:28:05] messiaen8844 : please make a BLOG post about XBJ
[2016-06-13 01:28:32] micmix : 1QaZxSw2: joequant had a formula for pricing quantos based on volatility, I have it somewhere. j8 probablu knows it by heart :wink:
[2016-06-13 01:28:43] j8 : i sure do
[2016-06-13 01:29:01] Yumi : Arthur said they will once everything is live, they are going to offer it to traders at quoine (jpn exchange)
[2016-06-13 01:29:03] Mr Blue : messiaen8844: if you want to short Yen you must buy, don't make my mistake and sell lol
[2016-06-13 01:29:06] j8 : it's `exp(2*t*sigma^2)`
[2016-06-13 01:30:52] Yumi : guys lets be real, any price below 1K for sep. is basically buying for free
[2016-06-13 01:30:55] lockhedge : micmix: it seems that my losses were partly caused because my spread was too wide. i had a relatively low trading frequency so inventory risk became much higher. paradoxically a tighter spread would have resulted in less risk/losses
[2016-06-13 01:33:17] Yumi : so we gonna have 0,8% funding and premium on swap is still about 2%
[2016-06-13 01:33:50] Yumi : I said, nobody wants to arbitrage it because profit cut risk
[2016-06-13 01:33:50] j8 : and the funding rate will go up next period
[2016-06-13 01:34:13] Yumi : no DPE = no premium
[2016-06-13 01:34:33] Yumi : i mean no being subject to DPE at all, not just outstanding
[2016-06-13 01:34:39] rapidtrades : PBOC sets yuan at 6.58
[2016-06-13 01:34:40] j8 : premium is what caused the DPE, silly
[2016-06-13 01:36:03] Yumi : mark price below $10-15 to the book caused dpe
[2016-06-13 01:36:24] micmix : lockhedge: yes, it's always like this. there is an optimal spread, for bitmex it's very close to zero bc of the maker rebate
[2016-06-13 01:36:50] rapidtrades : 03:34 - rapidtrades: PBOC sets yuan at 6.58
[2016-06-13 01:37:11] j8 : should we be freaking out @rapidtrades
[2016-06-13 01:37:25] rapidtrades : looks like china doesn't care about weaker yuan
[2016-06-13 01:38:05] rapidtrades : onshore was 6.55 ofshore 6.60..so they moved the onshore rate to 6.58
[2016-06-13 01:39:05] rapidtrades : my interpretation is they won't fight a weaker yuan this time
[2016-06-13 01:45:08] lockhedge : will be interesting to see if the other exchanges will follow BitMEX up again after the mark price rises 1.125% at next funding
[2016-06-13 01:45:23] Mr Blue : lol weaker yuan = more exports, usd is in a fight with the yuan to the bottom, but seen as the global elites control both countries I don't think that's the reaon, I think it's fair to say BITCOIN :-) and also maybe they think billionaires are becoming too numerus, an need to take a cut in buying power, but bitcoin and blockchain also works greatly in the elites favour in many respects.. money that can't be forged, worst case step closer to a chip in your childrens hands
[2016-06-13 01:46:47] Mr Blue : but hell as long as we all get rich in the process lol
[2016-06-13 01:47:01] Yumi : lockhedge: yea last pump was on point with bitmex funding roll, what a coincidence
[2016-06-13 01:49:01] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Arthur: mark on june is way off
[2016-06-13 01:50:26] BitMEX_Arthur : rapidtrades: will take a look
[2016-06-13 01:51:36] lockhedge : aren't the futures using the impact mid price?
[2016-06-13 01:51:57] rapidtrades : they should but its adjusted manually
[2016-06-13 01:52:48] Yumi : I believe they do and its automatic process
[2016-06-13 01:53:15] j8 : spreads need to be tight enough
[2016-06-13 01:53:26] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTU16`: Buy 4000 @ 841.46
[2016-06-13 01:55:23] Yumi : damn @lockhedge did you manipulate books and rekt somebody out of 4K contracts? ;)
[2016-06-13 01:56:07] j8 : bids over 830 are real
[2016-06-13 01:56:58] j8 : june, there's just nothing
[2016-06-13 01:57:19] j8 : bids $2 above spot.. come on
[2016-06-13 01:58:31] Yumi : shh dont say bad words about monthly or arthur gonna remove it
[2016-06-13 01:58:37] 3aum : what is the usual funding rate?
[2016-06-13 01:59:52] Yumi : sometimes its 0.05% a day, sometimes its 0,8% per 8hrs, just swap things
[2016-06-13 02:00:13] Blargwaffle : Jesus that was a fast leverage increase.
[2016-06-13 02:01:32] 3aum : is there an average rate funding rate over the past 30 days?
[2016-06-13 02:02:28] j8 : 3aum: the system to set it just changed last night, so that wouldn't be useful
[2016-06-13 02:02:41] 3aum : yea, i saw that
[2016-06-13 02:02:46] Yumi : ok so before the pump it was about 0.05% a day but today they changed how funding rate is being calculated and now it included the premium rate
[2016-06-13 02:03:23] Yumi : https://www.bitmex.com/app/index/.XBTUSDPI8H
[2016-06-13 02:03:32] Yumi : historical premium
[2016-06-13 02:04:14] 3aum : thanks
[2016-06-13 02:04:21] Yumi : best I can do
[2016-06-13 02:07:18] 3aum : and to get the funding rate, you just do 1x leverage sell/short?
[2016-06-13 02:07:54] Yumi : you have to understand it well before doing it
[2016-06-13 02:08:06] 1QaZxSw2 : whats the difference between cross and 1x
[2016-06-13 02:08:25] 3aum : right, i basically want the equivalent of USD in here, while getting funded
[2016-06-13 02:08:40] 3aum : it seems like that is possible right?, w/o losing any USD value?
[2016-06-13 02:08:40] Yumi : there is profit cut risk first of all
[2016-06-13 02:08:50] j8 : Cross uses any available balance as margin, i.e. as low of leverage as possible @1QaZxSw2
[2016-06-13 02:09:10] miramm1115 : Yumi: no profit cuts on funding
[2016-06-13 02:09:14] 1QaZxSw2 : i see, so less than 1x is possible
[2016-06-13 02:09:29] Yumi : yes but if you short and price goes down
[2016-06-13 02:09:39] Yumi : you get cut from profits
[2016-06-13 02:09:42] j8 : yep, if you buy 1 contract with cross margin you'll be 0.0001x long (or something)
[2016-06-13 02:10:05] Yumi : also as soon funding is paid market makers will adjust prices by funding rate
[2016-06-13 02:10:49] miramm1115 : Yumi: yep, you might get DPE on your profit from short
[2016-06-13 02:10:50] rapidtrades : that;s a lot of talking for 4 am
[2016-06-13 02:11:07] Yumi : its not 4am everywhere in the world
[2016-06-13 02:11:09] miramm1115 : rapidtrades: 10pm here
[2016-06-13 02:11:45] 3aum : thanks for the answers
[2016-06-13 02:12:59] miramm1115 : 3aum: let say you have 100 btc. you can deposit 20 btc here and open a short of 100 btc x current btc price contracts. that way you will lock the USD value of your 100 btc and receive funding
[2016-06-13 02:13:21] j8 : we could potentially have a big wall of liquidations on the way down, which gets mashed into the one that's already there at rebalance time
[2016-06-13 02:13:35] rapidtrades : hope so
[2016-06-13 02:13:36] miramm1115 : 3aum: but it's not perfect because there is a risk of profit cut
[2016-06-13 02:13:42] rapidtrades : the perfect storm
[2016-06-13 02:14:00] 3aum : thanks
[2016-06-13 02:14:36] j8 : i saw liquidations fill liquidations on okc once. it was really something.
[2016-06-13 02:16:57] Yumi : listen, if you short and lock usd value and price goes up you lose btc but have same usd value, but if after price goes back down and this time they take cut of your profits you wont end up with same amount
[2016-06-13 02:17:20] rapidtrades : thanks
[2016-06-13 02:19:36] Yumi : you have to understand that before shorting for collecting funding payments
[2016-06-13 02:20:59] rapidtrades : thanks.
[2016-06-13 02:21:25] Yumi : rapidtrades: thanks for being rapidtrades
[2016-06-13 02:21:40] rapidtrades : :)
[2016-06-13 02:21:43] sq : Yumi: lol r u from kr
[2016-06-13 02:22:15] 3aum : thanks Yumi
[2016-06-13 02:22:19] Yumi : I am citizen of the world
[2016-06-13 02:22:21] 3aum : i understand now
[2016-06-13 02:22:59] Yumi : so it might be good opportunity but there is risk
[2016-06-13 02:24:03] zanza : .8%
[2016-06-13 02:24:05] zanza : wow
[2016-06-13 02:25:49] rapidtrades : zanza: :)
[2016-06-13 02:26:26] Yumi : I made a sugestion to Arthur to introduce swap with low lvg that wouldnt be subject to profit cuts so everyone could safely short it for funding payments as a alternative to bitfinex lending but he said nobody would trade it and no MM would quote it
[2016-06-13 02:26:45] Yumi : it would act as hedging instrument
[2016-06-13 02:27:46] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTU16`: Buy 6410 @ 847.09
[2016-06-13 02:27:46] j8 : he knows if he cuts leverage by a factor of 10 there will be 1/10 the volume
[2016-06-13 02:28:34] Yumi : well I ment as an addition not replacement
[2016-06-13 02:29:16] zanza : well, if you were 1x leverage, jump from 580 to 650 is 12% gain. SO having funding interest of 1.5% in a day you still come out ahead a lot
[2016-06-13 02:29:41] lockhedge : Yumi: there is synthetic usd in planning and already on testnet, with 1x leverage, guess it won't be subject to DPE
[2016-06-13 02:31:35] rapidtrades : zanza: they changed the cacl
[2016-06-13 02:31:50] rapidtrades : now longs pay a part of the premium too
[2016-06-13 02:32:25] zanza : besides DPE?
[2016-06-13 02:33:09] Yumi : yea but if I want to hedge something 1x isnt very appealing
[2016-06-13 02:34:50] Yumi : also makes you keep all btc here
[2016-06-13 02:34:58] Yumi : instead of 20% for example
[2016-06-13 02:35:15] zanza : counter party risk
[2016-06-13 02:40:24] Yumi : if I could receive bfx rate or bit lower, paid every 8hrs while having to keep only 20% of capital with third party I would use it
[2016-06-13 02:41:51] zanza : they dont let you change the leverage amount in the calc :/
[2016-06-13 02:42:26] BitMEX_Sam : Leverage doesn't factor into the PNL zanza, only into ROE
[2016-06-13 02:43:15] Yumi : hey Sam, we talked today about how ROE here is useless or even confusing
[2016-06-13 02:43:45] BitMEX_Sam : It's not, unless you're talking about mark/last price divergence
[2016-06-13 02:44:51] Yumi : like it shows you 500% ROE, you think you are amazing trader to realize its calculated at 50x leverage
[2016-06-13 02:46:10] BitMEX_Sam : If you're on Cross Margin, I agree that this is perhaps misleading because it is assuming max leverage
[2016-06-13 02:46:14] BitMEX_Sam : On other margin modes it is correct
[2016-06-13 02:46:59] Yumi : yes it shows correct value, but it doesnt provide info of any value
[2016-06-13 02:49:24] Yumi : it depends on what you set your leverage level to, not what price you bought and sold, u might make 10% ROE and be way better off than when making 200% ROE
[2016-06-13 02:50:33] Yumi : its also based on mark price, which is confusing for many
[2016-06-13 02:50:50] Yumi : "I had 300% ROE how I lost after I mark closed"
[2016-06-13 02:51:51] j8 : omg too many times in the trollbox
[2016-06-13 02:58:05] rentchev : yeah
[2016-06-13 03:19:14] rentchev : Lisk MMs are on vacation
[2016-06-13 03:23:30] rentchev : Euro people are gone I guess
[2016-06-13 03:23:41] rentchev : anyone here?
[2016-06-13 03:23:54] j8 : i'm still here because i don't sleep apparently
[2016-06-13 03:24:00] rentchev : lol
[2016-06-13 03:24:07] rentchev : which timezone are you in?
[2016-06-13 03:25:29] rentchev : Still 8:25 PM here
[2016-06-13 03:25:41] j8 : doesn't really matter, i've just been napping at random times for days
[2016-06-13 03:26:01] rentchev : I do this sometimes
[2016-06-13 03:26:23] j8 : a lot of the time i don't even know what time of day it is
[2016-06-13 03:26:33] rentchev : Leonardo DaVinci had 15 min of naps every 4 hr
[2016-06-13 03:26:56] rentchev : basically he didn't sleep
[2016-06-13 03:28:52] rentchev : BTC going for new highs again
[2016-06-13 03:29:40] rentchev : I miss the times when TA mattered
[2016-06-13 03:29:45] rentchev : now is only one direction
[2016-06-13 03:34:15] rentchev : j8: if I short XBTM16 and let them expire, do I get the settlement in BTC or do I need to sell before expiry?
[2016-06-13 03:34:49] j8 : yeah the position closes at settlement.
[2016-06-13 03:35:50] BitMEX_Wally : rentchev: If you hold till expiry then at expiry the position is cash settled, meaning you get the profit/loss between your entry price and the settlement price
[2016-06-13 03:35:54] rentchev : is there any advantage to let it settle?
[2016-06-13 03:36:22] BitMEX_Wally : The settlement fee is 0.05% which is less than the taker fee of 0.075%
[2016-06-13 03:36:29] rentchev : right
[2016-06-13 03:36:42] zanza : so Bitmex based on 24 hr volume 15k and .0005% fee, makes 7.6 BTC in last 24 hours off XBT
[2016-06-13 03:36:45] rentchev : thanks both
[2016-06-13 03:37:42] rentchev : @zanza what is .0005% fee?
[2016-06-13 03:38:22] Yumi : he means 0.05% so 0.0005 times volume
[2016-06-13 03:38:24] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.bitmex.com/app/fees
[2016-06-13 03:38:49] BitMEX_Wally : So if you have a position worth 1 XBT then that is a fee of 0.0005 XBT
[2016-06-13 03:39:01] zanza : i think that is record volume also
[2016-06-13 03:39:10] rentchev : I see
[2016-06-13 03:39:18] BitMEX_Wally : zanza: XBTUSD does not settle, so does not have a settlement fee
[2016-06-13 03:39:27] zanza : Open Interest seems to have peaked. ok
[2016-06-13 03:39:55] Yumi : premium killed, mission accomplished
[2016-06-13 03:40:07] chromaticcr1 : unaccomplishing in 20 minutes
[2016-06-13 03:40:08] rentchev : BitMEX_Wally: LSK market makers left?
[2016-06-13 03:40:27] rentchev : bid 0.00034
[2016-06-13 03:49:14] Mr Blue : guys how come I have a liquidation price when on cross?? didn't show up as having liquidation price when I got 1 contract, then got 750 more and saying liquidation price 66602
[2016-06-13 03:50:19] Yumi : well think what happens if you run out of whole account margin
[2016-06-13 03:51:02] Mr Blue : I thought cross and x1 had 0 liquidation as I'm not lending anything
[2016-06-13 03:51:23] j8 : it's possible to have a liquidation price of zero, or infinity depending on the contract
[2016-06-13 03:51:37] Yumi : cross does not equal 1x
[2016-06-13 03:51:41] j8 : if you have a small position
[2016-06-13 03:51:48] Mr Blue : j8: its cross on the new Yen one
[2016-06-13 03:52:14] j8 : so, when you're long 1 contract you can't be liquidated
[2016-06-13 03:52:45] j8 : when you add more, you are increasing your leverage.. cross margin will let you go all the way to max leverage on your whole account
[2016-06-13 03:52:52] Mr Blue : Yumi: so I should go x1 instead? because changing leverage worked out weird yesterday
[2016-06-13 03:53:22] rentchev : you don't have to change the lev if you have a stop
[2016-06-13 03:53:53] Mr Blue : j8: so what setting is 0 liqudation? because I'm not trying to leverage on the Yen market
[2016-06-13 03:53:54] rentchev : I always keep it at cross
[2016-06-13 03:54:34] Mr Blue : at the moment at least lol
[2016-06-13 03:54:59] j8 : well if you short you will always have a liquidation price, since its not an inverse contract
[2016-06-13 03:55:03] Yumi : imagine you are short at 100 and price goes to 10000000 so still get liquidated even if you are at 1x
[2016-06-13 03:55:27] j8 : if you long you would need to be 1x or less to never be liquidated
[2016-06-13 03:55:36] Mr Blue : rentchev: so x1 is the one without liquidation? and cross it can happen?
[2016-06-13 03:55:53] j8 : cross, it just depends how much you buy
[2016-06-13 03:56:05] QuantFocus : when does leaderboard update?
[2016-06-13 03:56:52] Mr Blue : j8: i'm currently long +751 on Yen maket at cross, thought was below x1 lol
[2016-06-13 03:57:12] j8 : if you have 1 btc in your account and you put an Order Value of 1 btc, that's 1x
[2016-06-13 03:57:51] Mr Blue : j8: I know that, but I did cross, so I should stick with x1 from now on mate?
[2016-06-13 03:58:31] j8 : it mostly matters if you want to have other positions sharing the same margin
[2016-06-13 03:59:04] j8 : 1x will lock up a large amount of margin just for that position
[2016-06-13 03:59:07] Yumi : 750 contracts thats about 5btc, do you have more excess margin than that?
[2016-06-13 03:59:15] Mr Blue : well I didn't just wanted to buy lol, but I'm correct in assuming I paid x1 but on cross?
[2016-06-13 03:59:37] j8 : cross will only lock up the minimum amount, 1%, and then it will add margin to different positions as necessary
[2016-06-13 04:00:14] Mr Blue : Yumi: no lol but didn't think the 750 cost that much
[2016-06-13 04:00:41] Yumi : well it does say "Order Value:"
[2016-06-13 04:01:02] Mr Blue : Yumi: I don't have 5 BTC in my account
[2016-06-13 04:01:29] Yumi : so if you are long 5 btc but dont have that much in free margin you understand why you have liquidation price
[2016-06-13 04:01:30] Mr Blue : the 751 cost me less than 0.1 BTC
[2016-06-13 04:02:25] Mr Blue : Yumi: hmm okay I'm not worried anyways, Yen will drop against Bitcoin with the next 24h spot report?
[2016-06-13 04:02:53] Yumi : I have no idea
[2016-06-13 04:03:20] Mr Blue : j8: thanks for all the help man, and everybody else as well