BitMEX Trollbox Userinfo

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This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.


Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

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[2016-05-17 07:36:50] jung1 : yeah
[2016-05-17 07:36:56] PatioCrasher : How fun would it have been if there was blackcoin margin back then
[2016-05-17 07:36:57] PatioCrasher : haha
[2016-05-17 07:37:03] jung1 : but I made a lot of mistakes
[2016-05-17 07:37:24] jung1 : but polo is insane
[2016-05-17 07:37:30] PatioCrasher : I turned 3BTC into 30BTC.. But blew it all on a car I couldnt afford
[2016-05-17 07:37:39] jung1 : margin on multiple altocins that you could easy manipulate
[2016-05-17 07:37:39] PatioCrasher : and had to sell the car at a mad loss last year. haha
[2016-05-17 07:38:06] jung1 : but hey, a least you had a nice car!
[2016-05-17 07:38:21] jung1 : most of traders lost all they earn
[2016-05-17 07:38:28] PatioCrasher : True.. It was a volvo v40. My baby
[2016-05-17 07:39:00] PatioCrasher : Now I have a shitty smart car where the windows jam in the rain
[2016-05-17 07:40:48] jung1 : Im waiting for tesla 3
[2016-05-17 07:40:59] jung1 : electric car paid by electric money
[2016-05-17 07:41:53] PatioCrasher : Noice!
[2016-05-17 07:42:15] jung1 : awesome times
[2016-05-17 07:42:21] jung1 : we live in
[2016-05-17 07:42:39] jung1 : all that blockchain revolution
[2016-05-17 07:42:42] jung1 : daos
[2016-05-17 07:42:59] jung1 : bitmex becoming goldman sachs 2.0
[2016-05-17 07:43:12] PatioCrasher : True, I live in the 3rd world so don't really notice so much
[2016-05-17 07:43:22] jung1 : where?
[2016-05-17 07:43:26] PatioCrasher : SA
[2016-05-17 07:43:40] jung1 : how bitcoin scene looks like there?
[2016-05-17 07:43:49] jung1 : you can pay for something via bitcoin?
[2016-05-17 07:44:19] PatioCrasher : no not really. i was one of the first shops to accept tho/ I own a grwo shop
[2016-05-17 07:44:21] PatioCrasher : grow
[2016-05-17 07:44:24] PatioCrasher : hydroponics
[2016-05-17 07:44:38] PatioCrasher : We do about 0.1% of trade in BTC
[2016-05-17 07:45:05] PatioCrasher : Just speculators and long term investors here I reckon.
[2016-05-17 07:45:23] PatioCrasher : BTC has been a better store of value than the south african rand
[2016-05-17 07:46:14] jung1 : yeah its better than most currencies
[2016-05-17 07:46:42] PatioCrasher : But ye, I have never seen another bitcoin sticker in a shop here. And even if I did why use something I want to keep,
[2016-05-17 07:46:53] jung1 : and I think this is why btc would not be most popular coin to everyday use
[2016-05-17 07:47:26] PatioCrasher : Ye. Its definetly more like Gold here I would say
[2016-05-17 07:47:39] jung1 : people dont want to spend bitcoins couse they hope that price will increase
[2016-05-17 07:47:47] PatioCrasher : Trades at a slight premium.. just like the metal
[2016-05-17 07:48:39] PatioCrasher : If someone had a easy way to transfer Rand to USD could arb nicely last few years. Just shows how hard it is to move currency outside SA
[2016-05-17 07:48:46] jung1 : http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Bad+money
[2016-05-17 07:48:53] PatioCrasher : lol
[2016-05-17 07:49:06] jung1 : what is curren rate of rand/usd?
[2016-05-17 07:49:46] PatioCrasher : 15.53
[2016-05-17 07:49:58] PatioCrasher : Went to 18 in december
[2016-05-17 07:50:34] PatioCrasher : Its like a alt now.
[2016-05-17 07:50:36] PatioCrasher : haha
[2016-05-17 07:50:50] PatioCrasher : But just with no fundamentals
[2016-05-17 07:50:53] jung1 : still better that venezuelian bolivar
[2016-05-17 07:50:59] jung1 : ;)
[2016-05-17 07:58:54] giviz : hi, I've a stop a 0.02550 on ETH, why as it not triggered N
[2016-05-17 07:58:56] giviz : ?
[2016-05-17 07:59:40] PatioCrasher : PUMP IT... louder! PUMP IT... louder!
[2016-05-17 08:00:19] PatioCrasher : hu huh oooooh! babey babey, oooh babey babey
[2016-05-17 08:01:33] PatioCrasher : giviz: sell now into the MM
[2016-05-17 08:01:57] giviz : that's not the point, I want to understand why it's happening
[2016-05-17 08:02:16] PatioCrasher : Ok sure. understandable.
[2016-05-17 08:03:03] ggwp : giviz: stops aren't guaranteed to trigger, so they usually don't ;)
[2016-05-17 08:03:26] giviz : really ? so how do you stop your loss ?
[2016-05-17 08:05:32] BitMEX_Wally : Stops are guaranteed to trigger if the mark price breaches the trigger price. They are just not guaranteed to execute if there is not enough liquidity in the order book. Not are they guaranteed to have enough margin to execute if there are too many other open orders
[2016-05-17 08:06:19] sq : once stop price is met, do u do a market order?
[2016-05-17 08:06:20] ggwp : yeah that's what I meant ;)
[2016-05-17 08:06:21] giviz : the order was still labelled at "untriggered" at 0.02546 with a limit at 0.02550
[2016-05-17 08:06:22] sq : or u do a limit order?
[2016-05-17 08:06:36] sq : oh i see u hv both options..
[2016-05-17 08:06:46] BitMEX_Wally : The limit price is not the stop price
[2016-05-17 08:07:04] giviz : right, my bad, the stop price was 0.0250
[2016-05-17 08:07:10] giviz : so still above
[2016-05-17 08:07:11] BitMEX_Wally : :)
[2016-05-17 08:07:30] giviz : it should have trigger but maybe not filled
[2016-05-17 08:07:34] giviz : but it has not triggered
[2016-05-17 08:09:22] BitMEX_Wally : giviz: You had a Stop Limit order to sell with a Stop Price of 0.025
[2016-05-17 08:09:32] BitMEX_Wally : The mark price only got down to 0.0253 so the order was not triggered
[2016-05-17 08:09:56] BitMEX_Wally : Had the mark price dropped below 0.025 the order would have been triggered and become a Limit order to sell at 0.0255
[2016-05-17 08:10:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 72 @ 0.02567
[2016-05-17 08:10:09] BitMEX_Wally : Which is unlikely to have been filled, because the limit price was above the stop price
[2016-05-17 08:10:10] giviz : Ok, I was looking at the last order price
[2016-05-17 08:10:17] giviz : yes, that was a mistake :D
[2016-05-17 08:10:32] giviz : So, I will focus on the MArk price
[2016-05-17 08:10:33] giviz : thanks !
[2016-05-17 08:10:46] BitMEX_Wally : Yeah we use the mark price so people cannot go stop hunting
[2016-05-17 08:11:22] giviz : really great :)
[2016-05-17 08:11:35] giviz : I've been here for 2 days, so far so good !
[2016-05-17 08:40:28] keroub : Do anybody wanna try trading at BitMEX with Sierra Chart? I'm pretty happy with my interface now. Trading with it…
[2016-05-17 08:41:06] keroub : I'm actually looking for beta testers. Checkout www.bitsouk.com if you're interested :)
[2016-05-17 08:41:43] keroub : Hoho this chatbox understands emacs controls! Nice!
[2016-05-17 08:47:18] BitMEX_Wally : keroub: It looks great. Support for OTO and OCO orders I see
[2016-05-17 08:48:41] keroub : Yeah :) I tried them for trading.
[2016-05-17 08:48:54] PatioCrasher : keroub: Just for BTC?
[2016-05-17 08:49:01] keroub : Just for BTC?
[2016-05-17 08:49:14] PatioCrasher : Can I use your site to trade ETH?
[2016-05-17 08:49:23] keroub : Yes of course
[2016-05-17 08:49:25] keroub : It is not a site.
[2016-05-17 08:49:34] PatioCrasher : Yeah.. you know what i mean ;)
[2016-05-17 08:49:38] keroub : Yeah
[2016-05-17 08:49:46] keroub : You can trade any instrument that trade on bitmex
[2016-05-17 08:49:57] PatioCrasher : ok nice, I just trade here so will give it a go.
[2016-05-17 08:50:23] keroub : Cool please report any bug
[2016-05-17 09:08:14] chromaticcr1 : keroub: Can I have an invite mail/code?
[2016-05-17 09:08:32] vbmithr : Here you go
[2016-05-17 09:09:36] vbmithr : (I'm keroub on bitmex, to clarify :))
[2016-05-17 09:27:16] jung1 : https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/4jlijt/okcoin/
[2016-05-17 09:27:23] jung1 : eth on okcoin
[2016-05-17 10:05:53] ayy_lmao : priced in yesterday
[2016-05-17 10:06:14] jung1 : http://fortune.com/2016/05/15/leaderless-blockchain-vc-fund/
[2016-05-17 10:17:03] jung1 : next coinbase
[2016-05-17 10:54:51] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 6 @ 0.02544
[2016-05-17 11:17:23] chromaticcr1 : What a Title: https://steemit.com/crypto-news/@dan/is-the-dao-going-to-be-doa
[2016-05-17 11:32:45] jung1 : biggest crowdfunging in human history
[2016-05-17 12:16:06] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 1000 @ 451.86
[2016-05-17 12:16:06] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 1 @ 451.88 :punch: :whale:
[2016-05-17 12:16:31] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTU16`: Sell 50 @ 536.50
[2016-05-17 12:17:56] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTU16`: Sell 15 @ 535.94
[2016-05-17 13:11:08] sleger : "Today, longs will receive 0.3440%, and shorts will pay 0.3440% at 08:00 (12:00 UTC)." is that for next settlement (in 23 hours) or was it for previous one ?
[2016-05-17 13:11:55] arbitrage001 : sleger: next settlement i think
[2016-05-17 13:12:05] arbitrage001 : the previous one was 0.43 something
[2016-05-17 13:12:10] arbitrage001 : like an hour ago
[2016-05-17 13:15:44] j8 : when you pay it, it's the rate averaged from 24 to 48 hours ago, right?
[2016-05-17 13:19:16] BitMEX_Wally : Correct
[2016-05-17 13:19:49] BitMEX_Wally : The contract specs have the 'Funding Rate' and 'Next Funding' time
[2016-05-17 13:22:21] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 10 @ 0.02612
[2016-05-17 13:23:21] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 4482 @ 0.02626
[2016-05-17 13:24:06] diepnh : hi
[2016-05-17 13:24:09] diepnh : anybody here
[2016-05-17 13:24:14] ggwp : yep
[2016-05-17 13:24:19] ggwp : im always here
[2016-05-17 13:24:21] diepnh : yep
[2016-05-17 13:24:21] ggwp : ;)
[2016-05-17 13:24:25] diepnh : it's nice
[2016-05-17 13:24:31] diepnh : I have just known about bitmex
[2016-05-17 13:24:41] diepnh : so I have a little question
[2016-05-17 13:25:03] diepnh : with bitmex, can I trade ETH with leverage?
[2016-05-17 13:25:13] ggwp : yes, futures
[2016-05-17 13:25:17] diepnh : future?
[2016-05-17 13:25:30] diepnh : future contract or I can trade in future?
[2016-05-17 13:25:48] BitMEX_Wally : A futures contract
[2016-05-17 13:25:53] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.bitmex.com/app/contract/ETHXBT
[2016-05-17 13:27:46] diepnh : when my account is lost?
[2016-05-17 13:27:54] diepnh : I mean when my loss is too much
[2016-05-17 13:27:55] diepnh : ?
[2016-05-17 13:29:03] diepnh : such as, I buy Ether
[2016-05-17 13:29:06] diepnh : but the price is down much
[2016-05-17 13:30:30] diepnh : are u there sir?
[2016-05-17 13:30:44] sleger : then you go mine some more btc and come back
[2016-05-17 13:31:01] diepnh : I see
[2016-05-17 13:31:09] ayy_lmao : not sure the question
[2016-05-17 13:31:12] ayy_lmao : what about your loss?
[2016-05-17 13:31:18] diepnh : but how much the margin level
[2016-05-17 13:31:39] ggwp : SFYL
[2016-05-17 13:31:59] ayy_lmao : leverage or how much maintenance margin?
[2016-05-17 13:32:15] diepnh : yes, maintenance
[2016-05-17 13:33:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 300 @ 0.02639
[2016-05-17 13:35:21] diepnh : for example
[2016-05-17 13:35:31] diepnh : I have 100$, with leverage 3:1
[2016-05-17 13:35:40] diepnh : I have 300$ to buy Ether all
[2016-05-17 13:35:46] diepnh : with the price Ether 10$
[2016-05-17 13:35:55] diepnh : then, it goes down to 5$
[2016-05-17 13:36:06] diepnh : so, what happens
[2016-05-17 13:36:07] diepnh : ?
[2016-05-17 13:36:21] BitMEX_Wally : If the price drops below your liquidation price you will be liquidated
[2016-05-17 13:36:55] BitMEX_Wally : If you buy ETHXBT at 0.02684 with 3x then your liquidation price will be 0.01795
[2016-05-17 13:37:16] BitMEX_Wally : If the price drops bow 001795 your position will be sold and you will lose your equity
[2016-05-17 13:38:27] diepnh : that's it
[2016-05-17 13:40:04] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.bitmex.com/app/liquidation
[2016-05-17 13:40:18] mrp1nk : "futures" not futures
[2016-05-17 13:40:21] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 252 @ 0.02650
[2016-05-17 13:40:43] BitMEX_Wally : mrp1nk: Why the scare quotes?
[2016-05-17 13:41:08] mrp1nk : this perpetual swap is shit imo
[2016-05-17 13:41:11] diepnh : Bitmex is really great with this live support
[2016-05-17 13:41:23] BitMEX_Wally : mrp1nk: How could we improve the swap?
[2016-05-17 13:41:40] mrp1nk : #iwantmy7dback
[2016-05-17 13:42:16] habibi : BitMEX_Wally: don't u think this swap@24h btc has increased risk of dpe in big dump happen
[2016-05-17 13:42:19] habibi : i mean 100x*
[2016-05-17 13:43:06] j8 : it's increased the risk by orders of magnitude, there's no question
[2016-05-17 13:43:48] BitMEX_Wally : Market makers prefer XBTUSD, and have increased their quoting size (in Bitcoin notional terms)
[2016-05-17 13:44:01] BitMEX_Wally : And there is no long USD gamma risk, so I would say there's less risk
[2016-05-17 13:44:20] mrp1nk : i mean, you argue that now we have longer running contracts, but now i need to get of a long position everyday to avoid to pay the funding rate
[2016-05-17 13:44:36] mrp1nk : +out
[2016-05-17 13:44:47] BitMEX_Wally : The funding rate on XBTUSD is 0.04%
[2016-05-17 13:45:06] BitMEX_Wally : It's not much
[2016-05-17 13:45:24] mrp1nk : ^times the leverage isn't it?
[2016-05-17 13:45:26] BitMEX_Wally : Less than the settlement fee was on XBT7D / XBT24H
[2016-05-17 13:45:31] BitMEX_Wally : It's 0.04% on your position size
[2016-05-17 13:45:40] BitMEX_Wally : Just like the settlement fee was 0.05% on your position
[2016-05-17 13:47:52] mrp1nk : ok, maybe i'm the only one that is missing the old contracts
[2016-05-17 13:49:29] mrp1nk : BitMEX_Wally: "It's 0.04% on your position size" or 4% on your margin, isn't it?
[2016-05-17 13:49:51] BitMEX_Wally : If you're using the full 100x then yes
[2016-05-17 13:52:32] j8 : there are a bunch of reasons i think the risk is higher, like the fact that positions aren't marked to the swap market. another one is that massive positions could build up over several weeks.. when they do get liquidated there's not much chance the market will have anywhere near the liquidity to clear it. you can effectively exit a position of any size with only 0.5% slippage from spot, even if that's not where the market is
[2016-05-17 13:57:29] j8 : you can't really have a market that trades freely, but also tracks your model of spot + basis, without introducing a lot of tension, and that tension will be expressed as DPE since it's the only channel for arbitrage
[2016-05-17 13:57:47] sleger : j8: interesting strategy idea...
[2016-05-17 13:57:58] giviz : BitMEX_Wally: I would suggest that you put the user in the same trade section he was before logout, as on mobile we are logged out all the time and it's annoying (takes time) to get back to the section you where before
[2016-05-17 13:58:01] chromaticcr1 : j8: +1 on you
[2016-05-17 13:58:58] BitMEX_Wally : You are logged out on mobile because your IP address changes
[2016-05-17 13:59:13] BitMEX_Wally : You can disable this security protection here: https://www.bitmex.com/app/preferences
[2016-05-17 13:59:21] BitMEX_Sam : Sorry Wally - it's at https://www.bitmex.com/app/account
[2016-05-17 13:59:25] BitMEX_Sam : `Strict IP Pinning`
[2016-05-17 13:59:26] BitMEX_Wally : Ahh sorry
[2016-05-17 13:59:39] sleger : BitMEX_Wally: If I switch a position from cross to 100x what is the price used as entry price for the margin call ?
[2016-05-17 13:59:40] BitMEX_Sam : But I'll look into encoding the current url into the timeout
[2016-05-17 13:59:42] j8 : yeah there are a lot of strategies that seem too good to be true with this swap, that's a big red flag in itself
[2016-05-17 13:59:49] BitMEX_Sam : Would make sense to return you back.
[2016-05-17 13:59:49] giviz : BitMEX_Sam: thx !
[2016-05-17 14:01:18] BitMEX_Sam : sleger: Margin is assigned so that you are as close to exactly 100x as possible
[2016-05-17 14:01:29] chromaticcr1 : mrp1nk: futures has priced in the "funding fee" as a premium over spot, you take a cut when you enter the position, for example if you go long now at Sep contract, and assume you can only settle but not sell, you take a 20% cut as premium. the XBTUSD only charges it day by day.
[2016-05-17 14:01:40] sleger : BitMEX_Sam: ok thx
[2016-05-17 14:01:49] BitMEX_Wally : sleger: If you switch to 100x then it locks out 1% based on the average entry price (the rebalanced one used for unrealised PNL). Plus it adds in any margin to cover an unrealised loss
[2016-05-17 14:02:43] chromaticcr1 : mrp1nk: So the fee is actually a way to resemble a structure that is similar to the spot, limiting the perpetual swap to go too far away
[2016-05-17 14:03:02] BitMEX_Wally : So if you entered at 400 and price is 399 it locks out 5 as margin, and then your liquidation price is 397
[2016-05-17 14:03:17] BitMEX_Wally : (basically 100x puts your liquidation price as 0.50% below the mark price)
[2016-05-17 14:04:35] j8 : which is a big issue if short term demand for the swap is putting it 1% away from the mark price
[2016-05-17 14:05:11] j8 : you could have DPE even when there's a liquid market and low volatility, just because the market isn't following your model
[2016-05-17 14:05:14] BitMEX_Wally : If you have 100x set then you cannot place a bid more than 0.50% above the mark price
[2016-05-17 14:05:23] mrp1nk : chromaticcr1: i understand what your saying, still the okcoin quarterlies premium of around 10 bucks sounds much cheaper compared to 4% per day (on your margin and assuming 100x). I mean, after 25 days your margin got essentially eaten by the "funding fee"
[2016-05-17 14:05:29] BitMEX_Wally : (the order would be rejected with "Executing and order price would lead to immediate liquidation")
[2016-05-17 14:06:12] j8 : it's an issue because all the losing positions don't have to trade out where the market actually is.
[2016-05-17 14:06:52] chromaticcr1 : mrp1nk: yeah, not a good way for one to all in on BitMEX ;) it chips better than the woodchipper
[2016-05-17 14:07:22] BitMEX_Wally : 10 bucks is what 2% basis? You could pay 0.04% funding for 50 days before it was 2%
[2016-05-17 14:08:04] chromaticcr1 : I guess you are not that savvy to hold your XBT24H or XBT7D on 100x w/o liq.... at least I am not those guys...
[2016-05-17 14:08:12] j8 : okc quarterly is down to $6 basis so it's actually cheaper
[2016-05-17 14:08:18] BitMEX_Wally : If you're 20x on OKC then paying 2% premiumis 40% of your margin @mrp1nk
[2016-05-17 14:08:28] chromaticcr1 : j8: then it provides incentives for you to arbitrage?
[2016-05-17 14:08:43] chromaticcr1 : (unless either one play the DPE game...)
[2016-05-17 14:09:47] j8 : not enough difference to be worth it, and yeah i'm not involving the swap in my arb / hedge / carry strategies because of my concerns about it
[2016-05-17 14:10:26] j8 : i have come to terms with the risk on okc, and even on `XBT24H`, but not this one
[2016-05-17 14:11:00] chromaticcr1 : Just wanna also mention that BTCC also has a perpetual contact, which is CNY based. They havent got into the news.... yet!
[2016-05-17 14:11:25] BitMEX_Wally : Yeah I remember chatting to Bobby when they launched that
[2016-05-17 14:11:33] BitMEX_Wally : You need to have CNY
[2016-05-17 14:12:30] BitMEX_Wally : The product seemed designed around mainland laws, so it was a forward rather than a swap
[2016-05-17 14:12:56] chromaticcr1 : I tried that on my arb strategy, it wasnt bad, just that I have to keep in mind that I have sold #N coins which I have to add additional contracts (which bears funding fee) to arb
[2016-05-17 14:13:45] chromaticcr1 : sell #n coins -> pose as margin -> position n+target --> close and rebuy coin.....
[2016-05-17 14:17:18] j8 : i spent a lot of time doing that mental math, then i wrote some scripts that connect to api's and show my net position, rates and various other things in real time.
[2016-05-17 14:19:39] chromaticcr1 : Every api got their own thing.... friggin complicates
[2016-05-17 14:19:56] j8 : yep, it's a nightmare
[2016-05-17 14:20:18] chromaticcr1 : okcoin got a field called explodingPostion, c'mon wtf
[2016-05-17 14:20:31] BitMEX_Wally : Makes perfect sense in chinese
[2016-05-17 14:20:36] chromaticcr1 : yup
[2016-05-17 14:20:55] BitMEX_Wally : 爆仓
[2016-05-17 14:21:33] chromaticcr1 : not long until the next exchange code API with chinese calls only :P
[2016-05-17 14:32:11] okaycn : chromaticcr1: 来句中文的,哈哈
[2016-05-17 14:32:29] okaycn : chromaticcr1: 这么还有中文玩家没有
[2016-05-17 14:32:37] okaycn : 这里面
[2016-05-17 14:45:49] sq : lol
[2016-05-17 14:50:26] tscha : thanks for explaining DAO in the newsletter
[2016-05-17 14:50:52] tscha : I just ignored the term hoping it would go away by itself
[2016-05-17 15:04:37] chromaticcr1 : Wishing it DOA :P
[2016-05-17 15:05:57] chromaticcr1 : I am also surprised that when everyone doesnt know wtf it is, it could possible set such records... ..
[2016-05-17 15:07:42] habibi : i bet most of eth sent into it is from market maker
[2016-05-17 15:37:52] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 867 @ 0.02708
[2016-05-17 15:37:52] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 80 @ 0.02688
[2016-05-17 15:37:52] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 340 @ 0.02691
[2016-05-17 15:37:52] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 563 @ 0.02678
[2016-05-17 17:24:28] vbmithr : Why is ETHXBT trading above spot actually?
[2016-05-17 17:25:48] ayy_lmao : eth spread is ridiculous
[2016-05-17 17:29:01] migz : Cause no traders + bots off.
[2016-05-17 18:08:29] kasman5 : What day does the weekly re-balancing usually take place on?
[2016-05-17 18:11:20] mrp1nk : friday
[2016-05-17 18:38:50] Trebile : If I'm short of 10 contracts and buy 20 of the same contracts does it negate my short of 10 and open a new long of 10?
[2016-05-17 18:40:41] tscha : Trebile: yes
[2016-05-17 18:41:12] tscha : it doesn't "open a long", but your position changes from -10 (short) to +10 (long)
[2016-05-17 19:03:07] rapidtrades : how's it going fellas
[2016-05-17 19:03:57] mrp1nk : sup rapid
[2016-05-17 19:04:59] Trebile : Ok, I might try that one day. Thanks.
[2016-05-17 19:07:03] mrp1nk : i hate to say that, but i'm starting to get slightly bullish on eth
[2016-05-17 19:07:59] ram : ETH DUMP coming
[2016-05-17 19:08:02] ram : carefullll
[2016-05-17 19:09:09] mrp1nk : sure, it will. the question is when
[2016-05-17 19:11:27] ram : now i think
[2016-05-17 19:11:31] ram : this looks topposh
[2016-05-17 19:11:42] kasman5 : ETH bubble will pop, bitcoin will rally. Coincide with the end of the DAO sale.
[2016-05-17 19:13:57] rapidtrades : yeah eth rally seems unsustainable but it has to fall a lot from here for me to short it
[2016-05-17 19:15:24] rapidtrades : who pays swap in ltc/btc
[2016-05-17 19:17:33] mrp1nk : i'm looking at 0.029-0.03
[2016-05-17 19:18:03] kasman5 : mrp1nk: me too
[2016-05-17 19:18:41] kasman5 : 0.031 is 85% of all time high
[2016-05-17 19:19:09] mrp1nk : i want to short eth sooo bad, but on the other side the dao fomo seems to be real.
[2016-05-17 19:20:48] kasman5 : I'm very skeptical about the DAO
[2016-05-17 19:21:00] mrp1nk : me2
[2016-05-17 19:21:14] mrp1nk : at this stage it is pure vaporware imo
[2016-05-17 19:22:24] kasman5 : its legit, there's actual code, its been done before
[2016-05-17 19:22:25] kasman5 : https://steemit.com/crypto-news/@dan/is-the-dao-going-to-be-doa
[2016-05-17 19:23:31] mrp1nk : i saw this
[2016-05-17 19:25:07] ram : ETH already dumping
[2016-05-17 19:26:08] habibi : ram: its higher then last time u said its dumping :p
[2016-05-17 19:28:48] ram : dump it
[2016-05-17 19:29:38] mrp1nk : u short bru :-)?
[2016-05-17 19:31:04] rapidtrades : habibi: keke
[2016-05-17 19:31:17] habibi : rapidtrades: ke ke ke, totally agree
[2016-05-17 19:32:20] ram : 266 on polo
[2016-05-17 19:33:23] rapidtrades : is anywhere is europe cheap during the summer
[2016-05-17 19:33:57] rapidtrades : i hate the summer man, temp too high and they always jack up rents
[2016-05-17 19:34:14] habibi : http://www.priceoftravel.com/1979/european-backpacker-index/
[2016-05-17 19:34:36] kasman5 : My brothers just been to prague, come back singing its praises
[2016-05-17 19:35:04] rapidtrades : tnx but im not doing the backpacking thing
[2016-05-17 19:35:12] ram : there we go down
[2016-05-17 19:35:13] ram : ETH
[2016-05-17 19:37:23] ram : some is dumping ETH big time
[2016-05-17 19:37:33] kasman5 : Big dumps /s
[2016-05-17 19:38:05] ram : yup
[2016-05-17 19:38:05] rapidtrades : hold ur panties, we only dropped 30 pips
[2016-05-17 19:38:12] ram : ETH gonna go back to 25 today
[2016-05-17 19:38:17] ram : or even 235
[2016-05-17 19:39:21] kasman5 : /s means sarcasm. Ram clearly you're trying to get out of a short postion
[2016-05-17 19:40:47] ayy_lmao : 25 is possible
[2016-05-17 19:41:51] rapidtrades : 15 is possible too doesn't mean you should bet on it
[2016-05-17 19:42:08] kasman5 : anything is possible of course
[2016-05-17 19:42:29] kasman5 : I personally don't think well go much lower than 0.026
[2016-05-17 19:47:49] ayy_lmao : yah well eth been on a pretty big upmove
[2016-05-17 19:48:04] ayy_lmao : higher chance for low than higher imho
[2016-05-17 19:48:37] rapidtrades : that backpacker list in BS, says 2016 but there are comments from 2012 @habibi
[2016-05-17 19:48:51] habibi : rapidtrades: sounds fishy
[2016-05-17 19:49:13] ayy_lmao : i love this chat
[2016-05-17 19:49:35] ayy_lmao : there is like 10 dedicated ppl here and they are the only ones who talk
[2016-05-17 19:49:39] ayy_lmao : lol
[2016-05-17 19:50:17] kasman5 : I like the site, wish there was liquidity
[2016-05-17 19:50:22] habibi : thats good, isn't it :)? still better than typical trollboxes
[2016-05-17 19:50:43] BitMEX_Sam : At least some mutual respect here
[2016-05-17 19:50:57] BitMEX_Sam : It can get pretty nasty on some of the other chats.
[2016-05-17 19:54:04] keroub : Just a question :)
[2016-05-17 19:54:09] keroub : When funding is paid on swaps
[2016-05-17 19:54:57] keroub : What happens to your position?
[2016-05-17 19:55:49] keroub : For equity when there is a dividend paid, simultaneously the price drops
[2016-05-17 19:56:39] keroub : Mmh, this is very different here, since it's cash that is transfered from one person to the other
[2016-05-17 19:57:45] keroub : Ra
[2016-05-17 19:57:53] BitMEX_Sam : We add basis to the contract that decays slowly over the course of the day
[2016-05-17 19:57:58] keroub : Sam: What is the Bots number on top of the trollbox, also?
[2016-05-17 19:57:59] BitMEX_Sam : At the same time funding is paid/received, the basis is re-applied
[2016-05-17 19:58:19] BitMEX_Sam : keroub: I count the number of open connections to the browser websocket & the API websocket, which are slightly different endpoints
[2016-05-17 19:58:37] keroub : I see.
[2016-05-17 19:58:37] BitMEX_Sam : It's not an exact measure but it's a pretty good one for tracking usage
[2016-05-17 20:04:33] keroub : I don't understand, for the basis…
[2016-05-17 20:05:38] keroub : I think there is a fundamental thing I don't understand in derivatives
[2016-05-17 20:06:01] keroub : Say, the value of a contract is 1 ETH
[2016-05-17 20:06:31] keroub : But in the end you buy and sell at whatever price the market is
[2016-05-17 20:07:55] BitMEX_Sam : Yes, but every contract has a multiplier that you use * price to determine the actual value
[2016-05-17 20:08:11] BitMEX_Sam : E.g. XBTUSD contracts are always US$1, but that's converted into Satoshis
[2016-05-17 20:08:33] BitMEX_Sam : So at e.g. 452.82, 1 XBTUSD contract is roughly 0.0022 Bitcoin
[2016-05-17 20:11:11] keroub : In the case of ETHXBT the multiplier is 1
[2016-05-17 20:13:00] BitMEX_Sam : Yes, so the value of each contract in Bitcoin is exactly equal to its price
[2016-05-17 20:13:02] BitMEX_Sam : Very simple. :)
[2016-05-17 20:13:46] keroub : And it's a swap because when you pay the price to be long this contract, you get interest rate
[2016-05-17 20:13:54] keroub : It's like lending money somewhere
[2016-05-17 20:14:12] BitMEX_Sam : It's designed to emulate margin trading, but with more leverage & the convenience of being entirely in Bitcoin
[2016-05-17 20:14:31] BitMEX_Sam : The interest rates make it easy to hedge / arb against margin trading platforms
[2016-05-17 20:15:40] keroub : I see
[2016-05-17 20:16:03] keroub : So I can do, say, market making
[2016-05-17 20:16:08] keroub : and hedge my net position on poloniex
[2016-05-17 20:16:27] keroub : by taking the reverse position there
[2016-05-17 20:16:28] keroub : and that's it
[2016-05-17 20:16:38] BitMEX_Sam : Exactly
[2016-05-17 20:18:14] keroub : Still the thing I don't understand
[2016-05-17 20:18:31] keroub : What if you buy the contract just before receiving the funding, and sell it just after
[2016-05-17 20:18:53] keroub : How the basis gets added?
[2016-05-17 20:20:12] keroub : All the orders in the orderbook suddenly drop in price?
[2016-05-17 20:20:25] habibi : nope, polo api ddos a bit
[2016-05-17 20:21:02] BitMEX_Sam : keroub: No, the mark price of the contract rises just after funding and decays until the next event
[2016-05-17 20:21:24] BitMEX_Sam : Notice that the mark price of XBTUSD is 453.11 but the underlying index is 452.98
[2016-05-17 20:21:57] BitMEX_Sam : You generally wouldn't want to buy before funding and sell after, because longs pay shorts
[2016-05-17 20:22:04] BitMEX_Sam : But the interest rate can go negative in certain situations
[2016-05-17 20:22:48] keroub : in ETHXBT, currently, longs receive and shorts pay
[2016-05-17 20:23:31] keroub : Yeah because negative interest rate
[2016-05-17 20:24:12] PatioCrasher : polo down?
[2016-05-17 20:24:35] PatioCrasher : Kraken down as well?
[2016-05-17 20:24:40] PatioCrasher : wtf
[2016-05-17 20:24:54] habibi : its called dEth effect
[2016-05-17 20:25:25] zanza : ETH master race
[2016-05-17 20:25:37] migz : Kraken is okay, it just no action is going on.
[2016-05-17 20:25:46] PatioCrasher : oh ok.
[2016-05-17 20:25:50] mrp1nk : lol
[2016-05-17 20:26:50] BitMEX_Sam : keroub: Sure - so you'll see the mark price for ETH is actually below the index price because of the negative interest rate.
[2016-05-17 20:26:52] PatioCrasher : ppl still trading on the API?
[2016-05-17 20:27:05] BitMEX_Sam : API is throwing errors for price data as well
[2016-05-17 20:27:12] PatioCrasher : oh ok.
[2016-05-17 20:28:44] migz : going up 270 XD
[2016-05-17 20:28:58] PatioCrasher : kraken pumping
[2016-05-17 20:28:58] PatioCrasher : lol
[2016-05-17 20:29:30] keroub : Sam: OK I understand now
[2016-05-17 20:29:32] habibi : on no volume, but yea, they did it several times already, pumping on minor exchanges when polo is dumping
[2016-05-17 20:29:49] PatioCrasher : Bitmex_Sam will the average mark price just ignore polo now? or will it freeze up?
[2016-05-17 20:30:49] BitMEX_Sam : We continually attempt to get price data until it comes back - so technically yes, if there is a disruption the price will freeze
[2016-05-17 20:31:05] BitMEX_Sam : If it is disrupted for a long period of time we may declare a Market Disruption Event and change the index
[2016-05-17 20:31:13] habibi : glad that failover to kraken is not kicking in
[2016-05-17 20:31:16] PatioCrasher : Oh no. Ok. Hope it gets sorted soon
[2016-05-17 20:31:29] BitMEX_Sam : See https://www.bitmex.com/app/exchangeGuide#market-disruption-event-mde
[2016-05-17 20:32:30] PatioCrasher : Ok will do. Thanks.
[2016-05-17 20:32:32] BitMEX_Sam : It appears data is posting again.
[2016-05-17 20:33:10] PatioCrasher : OK nice. Was just a hickup
[2016-05-17 20:33:55] PatioCrasher : Up up and away! :P
[2016-05-17 20:51:41] micmix : BitMEX_Sam: Hey Sam! Can you show PNL since last rebalance in the positions table, maybe on hover? Lifetime PNL is not very useful for perpetual swap.
[2016-05-17 20:52:01] BitMEX_Sam : That's what unrealised PNL is.
[2016-05-17 20:52:19] BitMEX_Sam : Unless you're referring to something else?
[2016-05-17 20:52:33] micmix : no, it's not. I'm talking about realised PNL
[2016-05-17 20:53:14] micmix : my bots open and close position 50+ times per day, all profit goes to realised PNL column
[2016-05-17 20:54:42] BitMEX_Sam : Ah I see.
[2016-05-17 20:54:57] micmix : as far as I remember you have realisedPnl and rebalancedPnl in the positions table
[2016-05-17 20:55:10] micmix : you are showing only one of those in the UI
[2016-05-17 20:55:10] BitMEX_Sam : Let me see what I can have Wally cook together, I get where you're going - for now it can be of course calculated from executions but that is somewhat cumbersome.
[2016-05-17 20:57:10] BitMEX_Sam : We show `realisedPnl` + `rebalancedPnl` in the UI.
[2016-05-17 21:03:15] micmix : BitMEX_Sam: yes, could you show just realisedPnl on hover? that would be PNL since last rebalance
[2016-05-17 21:06:33] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah I can add that.
[2016-05-17 21:16:47] micmix : thanks
[2016-05-17 21:25:00] ram : short ETH now
[2016-05-17 21:25:02] ram : if u like money
[2016-05-17 21:36:10] rapidtrades : ^^ this guy
[2016-05-17 21:52:47] ram : if anyone listened on last trades
[2016-05-17 21:52:52] ram : u should have made nice money
[2016-05-17 21:53:14] rapidtrades : what are u talking aboout, we're at the highs
[2016-05-17 21:53:15] ram : i started shorting at 27 here
[2016-05-17 21:53:38] rapidtrades : 50 ticks is not ''nice money'' sir
[2016-05-17 21:53:49] rapidtrades : we gone up 400 today
[2016-05-17 21:54:07] micmix : long/short doesn't matter, just use 33x isolated to make sure you'll get rekt
[2016-05-17 21:55:06] rapidtrades : micmix: do u trade anything outside of crypto?
[2016-05-17 21:55:17] micmix : no
[2016-05-17 21:56:34] mrp1nk : lmao
[2016-05-17 21:58:12] rapidtrades : mrp1nk: ?
[2016-05-17 21:58:35] mrp1nk : i lol'ed at that dialog between u and ram
[2016-05-17 21:59:39] rapidtrades : newbs are so confident about each trade :)
[2016-05-17 22:02:39] mrp1nk : yea, at the end, who knows what will happen, especially with shitcoins like eth
[2016-05-17 22:06:23] micmix : someone was saying ETH coming to okc?
[2016-05-17 22:07:00] rapidtrades : still nothing
[2016-05-17 22:07:12] rapidtrades : but did u notice that btc-e added it 2 weeks ago lol
[2016-05-17 22:08:43] rapidtrades : was the okc thing a rumor or what
[2016-05-17 22:08:49] micmix : really? didn't login to btc-e for like a month
[2016-05-17 22:09:29] rapidtrades : yeah i only noticed it few days ago cos i mostly use mt4
[2016-05-17 22:09:46] micmix : I just tried okc, no sign of ETH anywhere and the API defaults to BTC if you try to use eth_cny symbol
[2016-05-17 22:10:15] PatioCrasher : there twitter says negative on the rumour
[2016-05-17 22:10:27] mrp1nk : they denied is afaik
[2016-05-17 22:11:04] rapidtrades : nice...
[2016-05-17 22:11:15] rapidtrades : if they denied it, they're prolly not doing it
[2016-05-17 22:12:37] micmix : I guess ppl still believe the rumor bc finex denied too
[2016-05-17 22:13:27] mrp1nk : on telegram someone claimed that he talked to the okcoin devs and they said "They decided not to add eth in the near future, Not the right time they said"
[2016-05-17 22:14:12] PatioCrasher : they haven't accumulated enough in other words . .
[2016-05-17 22:14:26] mrp1nk : anyway, if they add it it may be shorting time
[2016-05-17 22:17:49] billz : what do you guys think of btc outlook today? Hasn't decreased much considering this ETH rise over the past two days.
[2016-05-17 22:18:09] rapidtrades : it will either go higher or lower
[2016-05-17 22:19:55] billz : lol true not much movement yet though but seems to be treading lower, hoping for a rebound in 451s but lets see
[2016-05-17 22:22:20] micmix : I would stay hedged, everyone expects a halvening pump, it can end badly
[2016-05-17 22:22:43] mrp1nk : ^ this
[2016-05-17 22:25:05] rapidtrades : still long btc here
[2016-05-17 22:25:50] PatioCrasher : I'm stilll long both.. Long BTC as a hedge against my eth long. :)
[2016-05-17 22:25:51] billz : too late for that lol i'm either gonna be rekt or raking. Still long as well
[2016-05-17 22:27:38] micmix : PatioCrasher: I wouldn't call it a hedge. You are betting on inverse correlation but I'm sure major btc crash will crash all alts as well in USD terms
[2016-05-17 22:28:48] PatioCrasher : True. But at that point it doesnt really matter as we will all be rekt. @micmix
[2016-05-17 22:29:04] micmix : not all of us :smile:
[2016-05-17 22:29:13] mrp1nk : i'm ofc long too, but everyone long af makes me also slightly nervous. one last big "fuc k you wick" to scare some of this longs out would surely be possible. still the outlook seems bullish
[2016-05-17 22:29:14] rapidtrades : ^^^
[2016-05-17 22:30:04] micmix : I agree to the bullish outlook overall, just being cautious
[2016-05-17 22:31:10] lockhedge : micmix: a question i wanted to ask since i saw you in the leaderboard: what's your average leverage here?
[2016-05-17 22:31:32] billz : there's a leaderboard? wut
[2016-05-17 22:31:54] lockhedge : https://www.bitmex.com/app/leaderboard
[2016-05-17 22:32:30] micmix : lockhedge: micmix is my dev/test account, I just run test on this account with very low leverage
[2016-05-17 22:32:55] billz : lol goals
[2016-05-17 22:33:15] micmix : it's 0.69x right now, I think max was maybe 2.5x
[2016-05-17 22:33:50] micmix : MM account runs with 2x-3x
[2016-05-17 22:35:01] billz : kinda disappointing to see so few account making over 300% :(
[2016-05-17 22:35:11] billz : accts
[2016-05-17 22:35:19] rapidtrades : LOL
[2016-05-17 22:36:15] rapidtrades : 300% not good enough for this guy
[2016-05-17 22:36:25] micmix : lockhedge: are on the board as well?
[2016-05-17 22:41:28] billz : lmao i'm here for 1000% or bust
[2016-05-17 22:41:45] lockhedge : micmix: no, made about 85% YTD and didn't have a lot of money in this account last year. decreased leverage to about 0.5x average but thinking about increasing it again. your results motivate me :)
[2016-05-17 22:41:46] billz : but for now i am going to hedge this 50x btc long after seeing that list i'm kinda nervous haha
[2016-05-17 22:42:58] rapidtrades : lockhedge: he's a market maker
[2016-05-17 22:43:30] micmix : lockhedge: tscha said that his two accounts are on both lists, that should motivate you even more :smile:
[2016-05-17 22:44:32] lockhedge : rapidtrades: me too, i'm only market making here. i'm not a good trader ;)
[2016-05-17 22:44:40] micmix : billz: the problem is not getting on that list, the problem is staying there
[2016-05-17 22:45:55] micmix : the guy who made 540 coins is not in top ROE, and the second guy with 335 coins profit has 236% ROE
[2016-05-17 22:47:04] lockhedge : micmix: my guess was that Cream-White-Ox is tscha, but didn't know that he had 2 accounts
[2016-05-17 22:47:48] billz : micmix: wow true, ginger-coconut-mark is the biggest savage here with that ROE
[2016-05-17 22:48:23] micmix : I don't think tscha made 335 coins here but he promised to unmask his account for me
[2016-05-17 22:48:23] billz : seems he went from 1 btc to 18.88
[2016-05-17 22:52:15] micmix : don't forget that you can exclude your account from the list, so maybe we don't see the biggest guys
[2016-05-17 23:07:20] rapidtrades : there's been studies that ppl make only 1/2 of the returns of the SP500
[2016-05-17 23:08:16] rapidtrades : to make matters worse, its the same for bonds
[2016-05-17 23:09:34] rapidtrades : Most ppl are so stupid with their money that they significantly under-perform an asset that has strong upward bias
[2016-05-17 23:11:33] rapidtrades : billz: don't assume you'll be any different
[2016-05-17 23:13:12] rapidtrades : btw i think those are the stats of ppl invested in funds, so they're not even taking on the risk themselves
[2016-05-17 23:14:35] billz : @rapidtrades interesting i'll keep that in mind
[2016-05-17 23:17:35] rapidtrades : they lost half of the profits by jumping around even though they had their money in long only stock funds...let that sink in
[2016-05-17 23:25:11] Skuffone : do chart not work on bitmex anymore?
[2016-05-17 23:27:12] lockhedge : what do you guys think about Open Interest on XBTUSD? will it lead to higher/more frequent DPE than XBT24H?
[2016-05-17 23:29:19] rapidtrades : why does june have 2,900 btc open interest?
[2016-05-17 23:33:53] lockhedge : rapidtrades: "long term" futures always had high OI in relation to volume/liquidity but they only allow 25x, so i guess DPE risk is lower
[2016-05-17 23:34:24] rapidtrades : fair point but sept only has 500
[2016-05-17 23:44:42] lockhedge : rapidtrades: didn't XBTM16 launch 3 month before XBTU16? Total Volume / Open Interest is about 5 on both contracts, so i'd say it's just more OI because it had more life-time volume
[2016-05-17 23:46:47] j8 : september hasn't really picked up yet, june gets arbed with okc quarterly which has huge OI
[2016-05-17 23:50:01] j8 : it's harder to price sept without an inverse contract
[2016-05-17 23:54:53] micmix : I just know that the XBTUSD daily volume is about 40-50% lower than 24H+48H+7D daily volume
[2016-05-17 23:55:37] BitMEX_Sam : Yes - we expected that it would be lower as we've effectively removed some of the arb opportunities that were possible there.
[2016-05-17 23:55:57] BitMEX_Sam : We expect it to recover over time as we capitalize on the relative simplicity of XBTUSD over the multiple-contract structure.
[2016-05-17 23:56:51] micmix : A lot of volume was lost bc traders don't have to re-enter positions daily/weekly. I hope the volume increases with time
[2016-05-17 23:58:57] BitMEX_Arthur : We are looking at this from a strategic long term point of view
[2016-05-17 23:58:58] lockhedge : j8: at okc 24h volume is higher then OI, even at the quarterly contract. 820,032Cont vs. 590,077Cont (but maybe be partly fake volume)
[2016-05-17 23:59:17] BitMEX_Arthur : Futures contracts confuse too many people, we hope one contract, high leverage, no expiry
[2016-05-17 23:59:26] BitMEX_Arthur : feels just like spot trading with high leverage
[2016-05-17 23:59:47] micmix : BitMEX_Arthur: it's easier for regular traders, so the volume should pick up
[2016-05-17 23:59:58] BitMEX_Arthur : That is our thesis
[2016-05-18 00:00:02] j8 : lockhedge: that's pretty crazy, although i think volume is double counted but OI isn't (must not be since it's odd)
[2016-05-18 00:01:57] micmix : new swap is definitely easier to hedge for MMs
[2016-05-18 00:03:31] BitMEX_Arthur : `XBTUSD` on screen liquidity has improved
[2016-05-18 00:03:35] BitMEX_Arthur : the book is getting deeper
[2016-05-18 00:03:54] BitMEX_Arthur : We have plans for synthetic USD
[2016-05-18 00:04:00] BitMEX_Arthur : which XBTUSD is a necessary compenent