This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2016-05-05 19:38:52] tscha : i made a python script that checks satoshis address on outgoing transactions and drops coins in case
[2016-05-05 19:39:01] habibi : bitmex oscar 2016 goes to dorothy490!
[2016-05-05 19:39:40] habibi : how many addresses did u include tscha?
[2016-05-05 19:39:41] aethlios : BitMEX_Sam: Hi Sam, I want to ask you about the xbtusd swap. Open positions never settle? Every friday? You can only close an open position with a reverse trade?
[2016-05-05 19:40:08] tscha : habibi: one, the one BBC sent money to because wright said he will send it back
[2016-05-05 19:40:20] BitMEX_Sam : They never settle. You have to close the position by making the opposite trade.
[2016-05-05 19:40:24] tscha : 12cbQLTFMXRnSzktFkuoG3eHoMeFtpTu3S
[2016-05-05 19:40:46] habibi : tscha: he said many things :p
[2016-05-05 19:41:18] tscha : habibi: he said he will move coins from this address specifically, so I just included this one
[2016-05-05 19:41:30] tscha : but now, after his post, I doubt this will happen :(
[2016-05-05 19:44:37] aethlios : BitMEX_Sam: Ok, and it will be a quanto contract right? This will get very crazy in bullish environment.
[2016-05-05 19:48:19] dorothy490 : what the point in showing part of order value if you want to hide other part?
[2016-05-05 19:48:44] sleger : Attract takers?
[2016-05-05 19:49:11] sleger : BitMEX_Sam: what is 'notional' in your roe formula?
[2016-05-05 19:49:30] dorothy490 : but arb bots will plaec bets behind your order
[2016-05-05 19:51:40] dorothy490 : BitMEX_Sam: can someone see my stop market orders?
[2016-05-05 19:53:00] sleger : All admins can see it
[2016-05-05 19:55:25] tscha : haha https://twitter.com/gavinandresen/status/728306636847222786
[2016-05-05 19:56:54] tscha : plot twist - we are all satoshi, so craig wright is too
[2016-05-05 19:58:31] dorothy490 : can market makers or other users xept admins see them?
[2016-05-05 20:03:02] QuantFocus : Let's get some liquidity on the XBTU boys
[2016-05-05 20:05:50] habibi : QuantFocus: new mm?
[2016-05-05 20:06:19] QuantFocus : It appears that way
[2016-05-05 20:06:35] QuantFocus : Although I'm not by any official declaration
[2016-05-05 20:09:22] hello : .
[2016-05-05 20:09:23] hello : ...
[2016-05-05 20:09:23] hello : .
[2016-05-05 20:09:24] hello : .
[2016-05-05 20:09:29] hello : hello>
[2016-05-05 20:12:58] rapidtrades : hello: shut up
[2016-05-05 20:13:33] rapidtrades : support? why do I have to rearrange the chat box and close the chart every single time I reload this window
[2016-05-05 20:13:47] rapidtrades : can't u save my preferences
[2016-05-05 20:14:45] wildc : where is the ethxbt market?
[2016-05-05 20:16:00] rapidtrades : says etherium right there >>>>^^^^^^^^^
[2016-05-05 20:16:20] wildc : not that one
[2016-05-05 20:16:40] rapidtrades : the swap will be live soon
[2016-05-05 20:23:33] habibi : wildc: reading with understanding is what u need to do
[2016-05-05 20:48:01] sleger : podizzle3k: what's your problem ? "podizzle3k: sleger on the other hand......"
[2016-05-05 22:36:24] tscha : This Craig Wright guy actually (supposedly) gave lectures in Digital Forensics, Malware Analysis, Pentration Testing etc...
[2016-05-05 22:36:33] tscha : so MITM could really have been possible
[2016-05-05 22:36:46] tscha : or tampered laptop
[2016-05-05 22:59:38] tscha : call me naive, but I still think it's him
[2016-05-05 23:03:23] podizzler3000 : https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/satoshi-saga-continues-tulip-trust-trustee-expected-to-appear-by-september-says-joseph-vaughnperling-1462467803
[2016-05-05 23:03:32] podizzler3000 : this would support your theory
[2016-05-05 23:47:38] rapidtrades : settlement pump or dump? place ur bets fellas
[2016-05-06 00:08:13] ayy_lmao : settlment ump
[2016-05-06 00:14:23] sleger : tscha: http://www.drcraigwright.net/homepage.jpg
[2016-05-06 00:14:53] sleger : looks like you lost your bet although you might actually have been right indeed
[2016-05-06 00:24:15] j8 : sleger: how does it feel to be #1
[2016-05-06 00:25:26] rapidtrades : how did he losee the bet
[2016-05-06 00:25:46] uiop : <podizzler3000> https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/satoshi-saga-continues-tulip-trust-trustee-expected-to-appear-by-september-says-joseph-vaughnperling-1462467803
[2016-05-06 00:25:56] uiop : ^ the interviewee sounds full of himself
[2016-05-06 00:26:09] uiop : i don't see what's so complicated about this
[2016-05-06 00:26:24] uiop : "satoshi" does NOT need to move any coins to prove he holds the key
[2016-05-06 00:27:17] uiop : all he (or she) needs to do is SIGN a message THAT COULDNT HAVE EXISTED BEFORE AND BEEN SIGNED BEFORE AND THE SIGNATURE OF WHICH IS PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE
[2016-05-06 00:27:44] uiop : a message like "<<describe some world event that happened yesterday in a sentence>>"
[2016-05-06 00:27:57] uiop : then publish the ONE LINE signature AS TEXT in PUBLIC
[2016-05-06 00:28:13] uiop : then everyone can simply verify the signature using his public key
[2016-05-06 00:28:18] uiop : using whatever software they want
[2016-05-06 00:28:37] uiop : </uiop's-rant-in-public-maybe-someone-will-see>
[2016-05-06 00:28:55] rapidtrades : NOONE CARES
[2016-05-06 00:29:17] rapidtrades : go spam on r/bitcoin u lil bitch
[2016-05-06 00:29:26] uiop : rapidtrades: r u grumpy because you got some banga today?
[2016-05-06 00:29:56] uiop : rapidtrades: were you trading too SLOWLY or too RAPIDLY????
[2016-05-06 00:30:10] rapidtrades : how is this useful for trading? we're here to make $$$
[2016-05-06 00:30:23] uiop : do you turn LEFT when you mean to turn RIGHT someTIMES?
[2016-05-06 00:30:36] rapidtrades : i turn wright allright
[2016-05-06 00:31:16] uiop : rapidtrades: “When the wise man points at the Moon, the idiot looks at the finger.”
[2016-05-06 00:31:45] uiop : not to presume i'm wise, but the quote fit too well
[2016-05-06 00:42:08] viptrader : guys, what happens when settlement? trade closed?
[2016-05-06 00:45:08] BitMEX_Arthur : viptrader: You position does not exist any longer
[2016-05-06 00:45:29] BitMEX_Arthur : However, today we will launch our first product that never settles, `ETHXBT`
[2016-05-06 00:45:38] BitMEX_Arthur : so you will never have to worry about settlement again
[2016-05-06 00:47:41] rapidtrades : greaaaat
[2016-05-06 00:47:47] rapidtrades : here goes nothing i guess
[2016-05-06 00:48:35] uiop : BitMEX_Arthur, BitMEX_Wally, BitMEX_Sam: the ETHXBT spot-fx-swap-simulating contract is a great idea, good job
[2016-05-06 00:49:00] uiop : BitMEX_* if i missed some
[2016-05-06 00:49:09] BitMEX_Sam : uiop: Thanks
[2016-05-06 00:51:42] uiop : i'm curious to see what impact it'll have on the ETH futs term structure through arbitrage
[2016-05-06 00:53:07] uiop : it seems like (at least theoretically) it'll make the ETH futs basis mirror the poloniex swap rate differential
[2016-05-06 00:53:10] uiop : ?
[2016-05-06 00:53:53] BitMEX_Sam : We won't be running ETHXBT & the ETH futs at the same time
[2016-05-06 00:54:00] uiop : ohh
[2016-05-06 00:54:10] BitMEX_Arthur : The goal is to concentrate liquidity
[2016-05-06 00:54:14] uiop : ah gotcha
[2016-05-06 02:03:46] zanza : I am very curious to see how this works out!
[2016-05-06 04:13:03] alchemist : How're people making the most money on this exchange, speculation or cash or carry, market making or otherwise?
[2016-05-06 04:13:28] alchemist : If I was to get good at one thing first. What should I focus in first?
[2016-05-06 04:30:21] uiop : alchemist: whichever one you think you'll have the most edge in
[2016-05-06 04:31:25] j8 : also depends on what size you're trading, and what kind of risk you want to take on
[2016-05-06 04:45:57] arbitrage001 : j8: you are bitcoin full timer?
[2016-05-06 04:46:12] arbitrage001 : seen you here everytime i am on
[2016-05-06 04:46:31] j8 : yeah trading full time for the past year or so
[2016-05-06 04:46:37] arbitrage001 : nice
[2016-05-06 04:46:40] arbitrage001 : me too
[2016-05-06 04:46:47] arbitrage001 : but longer
[2016-05-06 04:46:54] arbitrage001 : last year was bad
[2016-05-06 04:48:04] j8 : yeah i was trading and doing other things for a couple years
[2016-05-06 04:48:09] arbitrage001 : crazy wild ride from 200 to 1200 then bback to 300
[2016-05-06 04:49:18] arbitrage001 : is trading the only viable thing to do ?
[2016-05-06 04:49:29] arbitrage001 : mining no longer profitable
[2016-05-06 04:49:39] arbitrage001 : or has mining ever been profitable
[2016-05-06 04:50:07] j8 : it still is, it's just a high entry cost
[2016-05-06 04:50:57] miramm1115 : arbitrage001: there is always an option to get a real job ;-)
[2016-05-06 04:51:28] arbitrage001 : miramm1115: real job doesnt pay much
[2016-05-06 04:52:01] miramm1115 : depends on a job I guess
[2016-05-06 04:52:04] arbitrage001 : unless you are in transnational company high
[2016-05-06 04:52:12] arbitrage001 : high management position
[2016-05-06 04:53:31] arbitrage001 : a senior developer in silicon vally might make 150k to 200k a year
[2016-05-06 04:54:00] arbitrage001 : but after cost of living, he can barely save any money
[2016-05-06 04:54:18] arbitrage001 : better off moving to 3rd wworld country and get paid in USD
[2016-05-06 04:55:49] miramm1115 : I've been to some 3rd world countries, no thanks, I'll stay in Canada
[2016-05-06 04:56:01] j8 : bitcoin is the best way to save. you're never tempted to spend it anywhere
[2016-05-06 04:56:21] j8 : because no one accepts it :)
[2016-05-06 04:56:27] arbitrage001 : i am in 3rd world
[2016-05-06 04:56:46] miramm1115 : j8: nice one
[2016-05-06 04:56:46] arbitrage001 : wont bbelieve what people do for nickle and dime here
[2016-05-06 04:57:06] arbitrage001 : so, anyone earning usd or bitcoin live like a king
[2016-05-06 04:57:20] arbitrage001 : even if it is relatively low income
[2016-05-06 04:58:11] miramm1115 : yeah, I can imagine
[2016-05-06 05:02:04] miramm1115 : j8: I saw you mentioned something about sleger being #1 on the leaderboard?
[2016-05-06 05:02:31] miramm1115 : did he say something like that?
[2016-05-06 05:02:55] j8 : no, i was just testing his reaction :) didn't get anything out of him
[2016-05-06 05:03:13] miramm1115 : ah, ok
[2016-05-06 05:03:55] j8 : it is him though, lets face it
[2016-05-06 05:04:20] miramm1115 : idk, he's supposed to have higher ROE
[2016-05-06 05:04:44] j8 : yeah, the formula is dumb though, mine's off by a factor of 5 or more
[2016-05-06 05:04:52] arbitrage001 : suprise not seein him up there also
[2016-05-06 05:05:13] arbitrage001 : but pure btc earning isnt accurate measure
[2016-05-06 05:05:26] arbitrage001 : some people doing arbitrage across many platforms
[2016-05-06 05:05:48] arbitrage001 : lose here, gain somewhere else and vice versa
[2016-05-06 05:09:41] alchemist : j8: what do you do most
[2016-05-06 05:10:30] j8 : i make the most on long term positions on the quarterly / biquarterly
[2016-05-06 05:12:10] zanza : so 7 hours till new ETH contract?
[2016-05-06 05:12:33] zanza : how are the new fees compared to the old ones?
[2016-05-06 05:12:33] arbitrage001 : zanza: should be
[2016-05-06 05:13:16] arbitrage001 : zanza: fee should be same
[2016-05-06 05:13:27] arbitrage001 : will kknow for sure when it is live
[2016-05-06 05:13:31] zanza : I see they added 2 new headings under Fees page
[2016-05-06 05:13:32] zanza : Long Funding Fee Short Funding Fee
[2016-05-06 05:14:07] arbitrage001 : one side will need to pay interest
[2016-05-06 05:14:14] arbitrage001 : and the other side recceive
[2016-05-06 05:14:30] BitMEX_Wally : Improving the ROE formula is tricky because we don't record leverage used, just the raw executions so we have PNL
[2016-05-06 05:27:48] j8 : seems there should be a simple way to count the base equity without double counting deposits that came after withdrawals.. but i can't think of it right now
[2016-05-06 05:32:25] podizzle3k : ;amded ;ole a bpss
[2016-05-06 05:32:29] podizzle3k : whoops
[2016-05-06 05:32:32] podizzle3k : landed like a boss
[2016-05-06 05:33:26] j8 : something like: if i withdraw 10 btc this makes room for 10 btc of deposits which doesn't count toward the base equity (the denominator of the ROE formula) @BitMEX_Wally
[2016-05-06 05:43:41] QuantFocus : I like the interface, BitMEX team
[2016-05-06 06:39:36] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 50 @ 450.43
[2016-05-06 06:48:42] tscha : j8: lol @ "bitcoin is the best way to save"
[2016-05-06 07:26:18] rapidtrades : fellas?
[2016-05-06 07:29:18] rapidtrades : ok so i see Arthur says they wont be running 2 ETH contracts at the same time...just as expected
[2016-05-06 07:29:40] rapidtrades : push changes down our throat has always been this site's MO
[2016-05-06 07:37:53] BitMEX_Arthur : rapidtrades: So you would rather we split liquidity amongst two products?
[2016-05-06 07:40:52] rapidtrades : yes
[2016-05-06 07:43:23] rapidtrades : this is a very risky move imo....a major reason why i'm using this site is the quanto nature of the contracts, i suspect this is the case for a lot of ppl here
[2016-05-06 07:43:58] BitMEX_Arthur : Most traders don't understand the difference between quanto and inverse so it's a moot point
[2016-05-06 07:44:17] BitMEX_Arthur : They want liquidity and leverage, and we going to provide that
[2016-05-06 07:48:14] rapidtrades : most traders don't make u the most money :)
[2016-05-06 09:24:00] habibi : BitMEX_Arthur: some of them want smaller fees as well but what do i know :P
[2016-05-06 10:06:43] rapidtrades : tbf, as children we don't know much :)
[2016-05-06 11:27:49] podizzle3k : whats up with eth mark price
[2016-05-06 11:27:55] podizzle3k : is it in some kind of slowdown mode
[2016-05-06 11:30:23] podizzle3k : oh its in TWAT mode i see
[2016-05-06 11:30:25] podizzle3k : TWAP
[2016-05-06 11:51:49] chromaticcr1 : lol twat mode
[2016-05-06 12:00:39] migz : SO ETH x25 is gone?
[2016-05-06 12:01:04] rapidtrades : yeah RIP
[2016-05-06 12:03:32] BitMEX_Wally : migz: ETH 25x is still here: https://www.bitmex.com/app/trade/ETHXBT
[2016-05-06 12:03:37] BitMEX_Wally : It just does not expire every Friday
[2016-05-06 12:03:53] BitMEX_Wally : Instead it is marked to spot every Friday and you can withdraw the PNL
[2016-05-06 12:03:58] migz : I see. Thats why :)
[2016-05-06 12:05:09] habibi : BitMEX_Wally: any new tabs to show funding rate in positions tab?
[2016-05-06 12:05:36] BitMEX_Wally : You can see the funding rate on the contract spec: https://www.bitmex.com/app/contract/ETHXBT
[2016-05-06 12:05:50] BitMEX_Wally : Or on the fees page: https://www.bitmex.com/app/fees
[2016-05-06 12:06:03] rapidtrades : 0.1% sweet
[2016-05-06 12:06:31] BitMEX_Wally : So if you are short `ETHXBT` in 24 hours you will be paid 0.11%
[2016-05-06 12:07:15] habibi : so 0.11 btc when short is valued at 100 btc
[2016-05-06 12:07:15] BombaUcigasa : Damn, that's 11% of your margin every day
[2016-05-06 12:07:28] BitMEX_Wally : `ETHXBT` is 25x maximum
[2016-05-06 12:07:40] BombaUcigasa : Oh, right
[2016-05-06 12:08:10] BitMEX_Wally : If you are long you pay the rate
[2016-05-06 12:08:12] BombaUcigasa : So in a month or so, you swap out your whole long
[2016-05-06 12:08:20] podizzle3k : yr fkd
[2016-05-06 12:08:24] haxmb : BitMEX_Wally: why is the rest api giving empty orderbooks?
[2016-05-06 12:08:40] BitMEX_Wally : haxmb: Which symbol?
[2016-05-06 12:08:43] haxmb : did the symbol change?
[2016-05-06 12:08:44] haxmb : ETH7D
[2016-05-06 12:08:52] BitMEX_Wally : New symbol is `ETHXBT`
[2016-05-06 12:08:55] haxmb : oh shit
[2016-05-06 12:08:57] haxmb : ok
[2016-05-06 12:08:59] haxmb : any other changes?
[2016-05-06 12:09:05] BombaUcigasa : BitMEX_Wally: when will we see the XBT swap contract?
[2016-05-06 12:09:17] BitMEX_Wally : haxmb: It's gone from being a future to being a total return swap
[2016-05-06 12:09:23] BitMEX_Wally : You pay or receive funding every 24 hours.
[2016-05-06 12:09:28] BitMEX_Wally : Apart from that it's very similar
[2016-05-06 12:09:32] haxmb : Ok so no more weekly settlement
[2016-05-06 12:09:35] haxmb : but daily rebalances?
[2016-05-06 12:09:39] haxmb : (basically)
[2016-05-06 12:09:42] BitMEX_Wally : Weekly rebalance
[2016-05-06 12:09:50] haxmb : weekly rebalance, daily interest?
[2016-05-06 12:09:51] podizzle3k : weekly oh god thats gonna sting
[2016-05-06 12:10:37] BitMEX_Wally : The interest rate is taken with reference to the ETH and XBT borrow rates on Poloniex
[2016-05-06 12:10:40] haxmb : so 0.1% per day on whole position if short?
[2016-05-06 12:10:49] haxmb : 0.1089
[2016-05-06 12:10:53] BitMEX_Wally : That's the current rate
[2016-05-06 12:10:59] haxmb : ok
[2016-05-06 12:11:00] haxmb : damn son
[2016-05-06 12:11:07] BitMEX_Wally : The XBT borrow rate is quite high on Poloniex at the moment, it will come down again
[2016-05-06 12:11:12] haxmb : well cheers for the info
[2016-05-06 12:11:15] haxmb : great
[2016-05-06 12:11:29] podizzle3k : i miss derivatives
[2016-05-06 12:11:49] habibi : BitMEX_Wally: u promise :p?
[2016-05-06 12:12:35] podizzle3k : can u tell im long eth
[2016-05-06 12:15:43] rapidtrades : bet on falling eth,...u'll make money while u make money
[2016-05-06 12:15:52] zanza : `Perpetual Swap`
[2016-05-06 12:16:02] zanza : `Get Hyped`
[2016-05-06 12:16:06] podizzle3k : rapidtrades you have to be all over this .1%
[2016-05-06 12:16:07] BitMEX_Wally : :)
[2016-05-06 12:16:10] podizzle3k : youre the premium king
[2016-05-06 12:16:17] rapidtrades : the future is here
[2016-05-06 12:16:19] podizzle3k : just totally ignore trends and go with the premium
[2016-05-06 12:16:39] podizzle3k : price could move 5% up but fk it, its all about that .1% baby
[2016-05-06 12:16:49] rapidtrades : 0.1% is pretty sweet
[2016-05-06 12:16:59] podizzle3k : yeah thats some good arbitrage right
[2016-05-06 12:17:38] podizzle3k : ;)
[2016-05-06 12:17:48] zanza : so I could park my BTC here for .1% per day?
[2016-05-06 12:18:04] rapidtrades : yes, yes u can :)
[2016-05-06 12:18:30] zanza : that seems too good to be true :)
[2016-05-06 12:18:48] rapidtrades : wally says it wont last
[2016-05-06 12:19:04] rapidtrades : but today we celebrate
[2016-05-06 12:19:07] zanza : i see
[2016-05-06 12:19:12] zanza : it changes everyday
[2016-05-06 12:19:17] podizzle3k : and tonight we dine in hell
[2016-05-06 12:19:26] podizzle3k : sorry that just felt appropriate
[2016-05-06 12:19:46] trestres : BitMEX_Wally: 0.1% was yesterday on POLO the average or the weighed average?
[2016-05-06 12:19:54] zanza : so is .1% the Polinex rate?
[2016-05-06 12:20:04] zanza : ^ good quest
[2016-05-06 12:20:15] BitMEX_Wally : 0.11% was the average over the last 24 hours
[2016-05-06 12:20:27] BitMEX_Wally : We take a 24 TWAP snap every day at 12:00 UTC
[2016-05-06 12:20:38] trestres : so the average... correct?
[2016-05-06 12:20:38] BitMEX_Wally : Then we apply that funding rate 24 hours later
[2016-05-06 12:20:45] BitMEX_Wally : Time weighted average, yes
[2016-05-06 12:21:10] zanza : so, does BitMEX have an account on Polinex and actually execute trades?
[2016-05-06 12:21:11] trestres : time weighted... not volume... correct?
[2016-05-06 12:21:51] zanza : time yes
[2016-05-06 12:22:06] trestres : ok... thank you
[2016-05-06 12:23:35] BitMEX_Wally : zanza: BitMEX does not trade
[2016-05-06 12:23:55] habibi : BitMEX_Wally: are u about to add new volatile coins? not another factom but for example digix dao?
[2016-05-06 12:24:00] zanza : it seems like behind the scenes there has to be a way to back it up tho since its not futures?
[2016-05-06 12:24:18] BitMEX_Wally : zanza: It's long vs short, same as futures
[2016-05-06 12:24:32] zanza : but no counterparty here?
[2016-05-06 12:24:54] zanza : oh, there is counterparty
[2016-05-06 12:24:57] zanza : i see
[2016-05-06 12:25:11] BitMEX_Wally : BitMEX is the central counterparty for clearing, we just move the money between the long and short counterparties
[2016-05-06 12:25:23] zanza : got it, thanks
[2016-05-06 12:28:05] zanza : so, if you close your position before 12 UTC, u pay 0 fee
[2016-05-06 12:28:18] BitMEX_Wally : zanza: Correct
[2016-05-06 12:28:33] zanza : i am interested to see how this owrks out
[2016-05-06 12:28:38] BitMEX_Wally : So are we
[2016-05-06 12:28:42] zanza : :):):)
[2016-05-06 12:29:22] zanza : people like simple and leverage, this is both
[2016-05-06 12:32:01] zanza : anything think its a strange coincidence that BitMEX released perpetual contract, the same time Craig Wright disappears??
[2016-05-06 12:33:06] zanza : ▲
[2016-05-06 12:34:22] habibi : yep, also last trade on eth was made at 54 second of minute -> Satoshi is father --> Father is Arthur --> everything is clear.
[2016-05-06 12:34:47] BitMEX_Sam : Don't tell anyone
[2016-05-06 12:35:11] rapidtrades : stop sucking bitmex ass for 0.1% guys
[2016-05-06 12:35:38] donchard : BitMEX_Sam: when is xbt swaps coiming
[2016-05-06 12:35:53] BitMEX_Sam : Once we've fully evaluated ETHXBT
[2016-05-06 12:36:23] zanza : its a live Beta kind of
[2016-05-06 12:37:18] donchard : BitMEX_Sam: so all quanto is going
[2016-05-06 12:37:37] BitMEX_Sam : The long-dated XBT futures will remain for the time being
[2016-05-06 12:38:14] rapidtrades : RIP quanto :(
[2016-05-06 12:38:38] donchard : till it expires in septmber
[2016-05-06 12:41:06] donchard : BitMEX_Sam: will xbt swaps be quanto
[2016-05-06 12:41:25] habibi : donchard: u in 1 % of traders that know what is quanto, good for u
[2016-05-06 12:41:34] BitMEX_Sam : We are still evaluating but they likely will be $1 inverse conts
[2016-05-06 12:55:44] subjective : no one sell ETH
[2016-05-06 13:01:50] habibi : BitMEX_Sam: could u add to calculator rate calc?
[2016-05-06 13:07:23] rapidtrades : fimex fomos about everything, eth, btc
[2016-05-06 13:07:31] rapidtrades : a bunch of retards
[2016-05-06 13:22:06] Patryn : Question: My entry price in XBTU16 is $581. Market price, $561. My unrealized PNL is in the negative... a $20 dip in my favour isn't enough to generate a profit?
[2016-05-06 13:23:03] BitMEX_Sam : Patryn: There was a rebalance just over an hour ago, so your unrealised profit went into the realised column
[2016-05-06 13:23:29] BitMEX_Sam : Your unrealised profit is based on the mark price movements since 12 UTC (the last 80 minutes)
[2016-05-06 13:24:04] Patryn : Gotcha, thanks.
[2016-05-06 13:24:15] BitMEX_Sam : habibi: Rate calc sounds good, will add it to my list
[2016-05-06 13:24:24] BitMEX_Sam : Can do simple daily compounding interest
[2016-05-06 13:24:43] BitMEX_Sam : The rate changes pretty frequently though, so not sure how useful it will be, but it's something
[2016-05-06 13:26:59] BitMEX_Sam : Rather, it would not compound because your position doesn't get larger/smaller due to the interest - so it's a very simple calc
[2016-05-06 13:27:33] rapidtrades : ur position got larger/smaller with quanto :(
[2016-05-06 13:27:49] rapidtrades : RIP quanto, you'll be missed
[2016-05-06 13:28:20] BitMEX_Sam : That's not how it works
[2016-05-06 13:40:11] BitMEX_Wally : rapidtrades: Was ETH7D a quanto contract?
[2016-05-06 13:41:15] podizzle3k : so can we close our ETH long before a certain time to avoid lending fees?
[2016-05-06 13:42:03] zanza : quiz time
[2016-05-06 13:42:32] BitMEX_Sam : podizzle3k: Yes, fees are charged/received at 12 UTC
[2016-05-06 13:42:40] podizzle3k : interesting
[2016-05-06 13:42:46] podizzle3k : polo has the same time?
[2016-05-06 13:49:35] BitMEX_Sam : I believe it's hourly on polo, although their documentation does not clearly say
[2016-05-06 13:50:39] podizzle3k : so i wonder if we will see people dumping to avoid the fees
[2016-05-06 13:51:59] BitMEX_Sam : Note that the mark price builds in decay from the lending rate, so it will trade with an decreasing amount of basis as the funding event draws nearer
[2016-05-06 13:52:18] BitMEX_Sam : This means it will trade very smoothly around the funding event
[2016-05-06 13:54:44] j8 : it'll probably be smaller than the spread and you'll barely notice anyway
[2016-05-06 13:56:03] BitMEX_Sam : That's likely true. But this decay helps quite a bit in terms of smoothing the value of positions so liquidations don't occur around funding
[2016-05-06 13:57:43] j8 : it's smooth over the course of the day but it jumps at funding time, so i don't really see that
[2016-05-06 13:59:06] BitMEX_Sam : It doesn't - at funding time, longs will pay shorts exactly the % the mark price will jump
[2016-05-06 13:59:52] j8 : right, that makes sense
[2016-05-06 14:09:47] j8 : so it seems there is a mechanism to settle your swap at the spot price for a fee, although its a bit sloppy... after the weekly rebalance, if the swap premium or discount is greater than the maintenance margin, you let yourself get liquidated
[2016-05-06 14:10:46] BitMEX_Sam : It would be highly unlikely for lending rates to be that high to begin with, but we also cap funding rates at 75% of MM just in case.
[2016-05-06 14:11:46] j8 : it's not about the funding rate, it's the case where the swap is diverging from the mark price
[2016-05-06 14:12:14] j8 : capping the funding rate could actually cause this to happen
[2016-05-06 14:13:35] BitMEX_Wally : j8: You are right that getting liquidated is one way to exit at the mark price-MM
[2016-05-06 14:13:52] BitMEX_Wally : If the fundingRate is capped then we will reduce leverage and allow the fundingRate to increase
[2016-05-06 14:15:09] j8 : the only other way being to hope the swap trades at the mark price?
[2016-05-06 14:16:17] BitMEX_Wally : The market makers we've spoken to plan to price this at spot + fundingRate*hours_til_noon
[2016-05-06 14:16:40] BitMEX_Wally : (which is the markPrice we're using)
[2016-05-06 14:16:48] j8 : of course, but that's just collective expectation
[2016-05-06 14:17:03] BitMEX_Wally : If the contract deviates too much from that then we will re-evaluate.
[2016-05-06 14:17:16] BitMEX_Wally : Either adjust the funding rate, or leverage, etc
[2016-05-06 14:17:39] arbitrage001 : spread is too wide i think
[2016-05-06 14:18:58] BitMEX_Wally : It's higher than Poloniex for size right now
[2016-05-06 14:20:01] BitMEX_Wally : *tigher
[2016-05-06 14:20:13] BitMEX_Wally : Apologies, my keyboard is not work. I meant *tighter
[2016-05-06 14:20:45] habibi : BitMEX_Wally: not really
[2016-05-06 14:22:40] BitMEX_Wally : `ETHXBT` is 1% for 1000 ETH
[2016-05-06 14:24:08] j8 : it's a unique product, i guess we'll have to see what happens.. the rate is quite high, if the carry trade looks good enough then it could get sold to a discount
[2016-05-06 14:24:54] rapidtrades : isn't the carry only 2 ticks right now? on a 18 tick spread?
[2016-05-06 14:24:58] arbitrage001 : j8: problem is rate fluctuate wildly daily
[2016-05-06 14:25:17] rapidtrades : maybe my math's off
[2016-05-06 14:25:27] j8 : no you're right
[2016-05-06 14:25:34] BitMEX_Wally : The current fundingRate times price is 0.00002 XBT
[2016-05-06 14:25:55] rapidtrades : right 2 ticks
[2016-05-06 14:28:50] BitMEX_Wally : You can see the minutely snap of the funding rate here: https://www.bitmex.com/app/index/.XBTPON
[2016-05-06 14:29:02] BitMEX_Wally : Ignore the wicks, we take a 24 hour average
[2016-05-06 14:29:22] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.bitmex.com/app/index/.ETHPON
[2016-05-06 14:32:28] j8 : so, long eth on finex, sell swap on bitmex. collect poloniex risk premium
[2016-05-06 14:33:01] j8 : somehow doesn't seem like that should be possible...
[2016-05-06 14:33:17] arbitrage001 : j8: why not possible?
[2016-05-06 14:33:24] arbitrage001 : long is paying
[2016-05-06 14:35:01] j8 : the rational thing would be that they won't pay such a high rate when there's other low rates in the market, meaning a steady downward pressure and the swap gets discounted over time
[2016-05-06 14:35:58] j8 : if the funding rate doesn't reflect reality, the swap definitely shouldn't be expected to track spot
[2016-05-06 14:36:04] arbitrage001 : j8: many market participants are rationoal
[2016-05-06 14:36:15] arbitrage001 : aren't rational
[2016-05-06 14:36:16] Samirum : What's the difference between ETH7D and ETHXBT
[2016-05-06 14:36:53] arbitrage001 : consider this: margin funding to long btc is a lot cheaper on finex
[2016-05-06 14:37:02] j8 : for sure, and with higher leverage we often see people willing to pay way higher rates
[2016-05-06 14:37:04] arbitrage001 : yet people trade here
[2016-05-06 14:37:17] BitMEX_Greg : Samirum: ETH7D was a 7day futures contract, ETHXBT is essentially a perpetual swap with no expiry
[2016-05-06 14:39:09] Samirum : BitMEX_Greg: Ok
[2016-05-06 14:39:19] j8 : arbitrage001: in the big picture of how these things will be priced, there are plenty of rational people and rational reasons for people doing irrational things
[2016-05-06 14:39:51] Samirum : BitMEX_Greg: so the ETD7D will be delisted
[2016-05-06 14:39:59] Samirum : Right?
[2016-05-06 14:40:02] arbitrage001 : j8: yes, and people who figured out the system will make profit
[2016-05-06 14:41:51] j8 : yes, and the result will be more efficient pricing.. which might not mean tracking spot
[2016-05-06 14:44:45] j8 : it won't actually diverge in the long term, because everyone gets DPE if it does
[2016-05-06 14:48:20] sleger : Why would it necessarily lead to dpe?
[2016-05-06 14:48:25] rapidtrades : were eth spreads always this high? or MM don't know how to price this yet
[2016-05-06 14:49:31] j8 : sleger: because the mark price is just spot + lending basis
[2016-05-06 14:50:15] rapidtrades : wait so when do spot and swap price converge? on friday? or never
[2016-05-06 14:50:27] j8 : so if it diverges, liquidations don't get filled, but also at rebalance time you could take a position and let it get liquidated at a profit
[2016-05-06 14:51:01] BTCDJS : sup
[2016-05-06 14:53:49] rapidtrades : when do spot and swap price converge? on friday? or never
[2016-05-06 14:54:29] arbitrage001 : rapidtrades: rate is the key
[2016-05-06 14:54:41] arbitrage001 : right now, long has to pay
[2016-05-06 14:54:42] j8 : there is a rebalance on friday at the spot price. but the swap doesn't have to converge
[2016-05-06 14:54:42] rapidtrades : support?
[2016-05-06 14:55:01] arbitrage001 : someday,, maybe short will pay
[2016-05-06 14:55:10] arbitrage001 : and price temporar conve
[2016-05-06 14:55:22] arbitrage001 : temporary converge
[2016-05-06 14:56:09] sleger : But dpe is onlyif orders dont get filled as long as the market is liquid i dont see any reason for having "necessarily " dpe . But im on thebeach right now and havent read the specs in detail yet
[2016-05-06 14:57:26] rapidtrades : im on the beach right now, sleger 2016
[2016-05-06 14:57:58] rapidtrades : taking his one day off a year from the office
[2016-05-06 14:58:10] arbitrage001 : will be hard to trade swap without expiry
[2016-05-06 14:59:32] j8 : sleger: mark price has to follow the swap market for there to be a good chance of liquidations filling. of course for eth this was never the case
[2016-05-06 15:01:00] j8 : but there is also an opportunity to profit by liquidating yourself, when the rebalance happens. if the premium is greater than the maintenance margin.
[2016-05-06 15:01:30] sleger : Margin is 2% i assume
[2016-05-06 15:01:32] rapidtrades : i don't understand what are u talking about
[2016-05-06 15:01:54] rapidtrades : on friday we rebalance at the spot price no?
[2016-05-06 15:01:54] sleger : rapidtrades: i was in miami a fee weeks ago
[2016-05-06 15:02:13] rapidtrades : greaat....2 days off in 2 months
[2016-05-06 15:03:53] j8 : rapidtrades: rebalance yes, but if there is a consistent premium then that doesn't help you get out of your position at a profit
[2016-05-06 15:05:44] sleger : j8: at some point you should be able to withdraw more pnl than margin used so you can somehow get your profit
[2016-05-06 15:06:13] sleger : so it cant diverge too much
[2016-05-06 15:06:25] rapidtrades : should we be trading at discount then? since shorts get paid
[2016-05-06 15:07:23] j8 : sleger: you wouldn't get the swap premium every week. only once
[2016-05-06 15:07:36] rapidtrades : wat
[2016-05-06 15:07:44] rapidtrades : this is blowing my mind
[2016-05-06 15:08:03] j8 : so there's the funding payment based on polo rate
[2016-05-06 15:08:47] j8 : when i saw swap premium i mean the premium the swap trades at compared to spot + funding basis
[2016-05-06 15:08:59] j8 : *say not saw
[2016-05-06 15:10:20] rapidtrades : and when do we get the carry? every day or on friday?
[2016-05-06 15:10:48] j8 : funding payment every day.
[2016-05-06 15:11:15] rapidtrades : in btc right? not that funny money eth
[2016-05-06 15:11:34] j8 : if you try to arb the swap price against spot you would get the pnl from that premium on friday. but if there's still a premium you would lose it when you close your position
[2016-05-06 15:12:34] rapidtrades : j8: stop confusing me
[2016-05-06 15:17:13] j8 : i think it should trade at a discount because of the unrealistically high rate. how big of a discount? depends how long the market expects these rate conditions will last
[2016-05-06 15:42:51] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 15 @ 0.02
[2016-05-06 16:49:49] Miztake : hmm
[2016-05-06 17:14:36] podizzle3k : congrats on the first ethxbt rekt
[2016-05-06 17:15:16] podizzle3k : fair price isn matching polo price atm
[2016-05-06 17:15:25] podizzle3k : are we in slowdown mode?
[2016-05-06 17:20:50] BitMEX_Wally : There is no slow down mode for `ETHXBT`, because it never settles
[2016-05-06 17:21:08] rapidtrades : well that's just great
[2016-05-06 17:21:59] rapidtrades : how many markets are u guys trading?
[2016-05-06 17:22:06] BitMEX_Wally : Price on Poloniex is 0.02140219 and we have 0.02140 plus 2 ticks as the fairPrice
[2016-05-06 17:22:19] BitMEX_Wally : i.e. 0.02142
[2016-05-06 17:22:36] rapidtrades : ticks...Wally stealing my lingo
[2016-05-06 17:23:23] podizzle3k : ah gotcha
[2016-05-06 17:23:27] podizzle3k : didnt know about the 2 ticks
[2016-05-06 17:23:46] podizzle3k : not very fair to shorters ;)
[2016-05-06 17:24:22] podizzle3k : what if somene got rekt by the 2 ticks that would be hilarious
[2016-05-06 17:24:34] podizzle3k : then the price dumped immediately after
[2016-05-06 17:24:52] rapidtrades : oh smone WILL get rekt my 2 ticks, I can tell u that for a fact
[2016-05-06 17:25:04] rapidtrades : my=by
[2016-05-06 17:25:32] BitMEX_Wally : podizzle3k: It is fair on shorters, as that basis will decay to 0 just before funding time. If you are short that is positive PNL
[2016-05-06 17:25:55] mrp1nk : podizzle3k: #toldya :-)
[2016-05-06 17:26:05] podizzle3k : mrp1nk: u were right my friend
[2016-05-06 17:26:25] mrp1nk : not saying that i knew it for sure
[2016-05-06 17:26:29] podizzle3k : although we shouldnt think in right and wrong yeah
[2016-05-06 17:26:31] BTCDJS : BitMEX_Wally: Hey wally
[2016-05-06 17:26:34] BTCDJS : sup?
[2016-05-06 17:26:47] BitMEX_Wally : BTCDJS: Heya
[2016-05-06 17:26:53] podizzle3k : a good trader just puts themselves in the best position based on previous patterns, so we'll say you did that well
[2016-05-06 17:27:47] podizzle3k : it may decay to zero at funding time but you can still get rekt by two ticks before then
[2016-05-06 17:27:51] mrp1nk : well, it still could be coincidence, but i think at least some weak hands jumped back on the train
[2016-05-06 17:28:27] podizzle3k : mrp1nk: i always defer to the okcoin futures holders. they offloaded a bunch of contracts over the last few hours
[2016-05-06 17:28:44] podizzle3k : so it appears theyve been accumulating longs over the last few days
[2016-05-06 17:28:46] rapidtrades : f*ck em
[2016-05-06 17:29:03] rapidtrades : they're weak
[2016-05-06 17:29:16] podizzle3k : physically yeah we could probably take em
[2016-05-06 17:29:27] podizzle3k : lets whoop their ass
[2016-05-06 17:30:54] podizzle3k : i heard sam knows muay thai and wally knows jiu jitsu
[2016-05-06 17:31:01] podizzle3k : and we allknow arthur is golden gloves boxer
[2016-05-06 17:31:27] podizzle3k : rapidtrade will be the guy throwing pocket sand
[2016-05-06 17:36:15] rapidtrades : anyone has average spread before vs now on ethbtc
[2016-05-06 17:41:52] BitMEX_Wally : rapidtrades: Median cash spread on ETH7D was 0.00019 over last 24 hours. Median cash spread of ETHXBT since it launched is 0.00016
[2016-05-06 17:44:56] habibi : Wally isnt it too fast to give such verdicts?
[2016-05-06 17:45:13] habibi : ah nvm, its just respond to rapidtrades :)
[2016-05-06 17:47:06] BitMEX_Wally : habibi: That wasn't a verdict, that was data
[2016-05-06 17:48:03] BitMEX_Wally : So far the contract seems to be doing well
[2016-05-06 18:08:21] rapidtrades : bitcoin slowly rallying keke
[2016-05-06 18:09:27] rapidtrades : the slow rally
[2016-05-06 18:34:58] podizzle3k : weekly okcoin below spot isnt that interesting
[2016-05-06 18:35:54] rapidtrades : they're WEAK
[2016-05-06 18:39:57] sleger : BitMEX_Wally: if eth contract diverges, can you realize your pnl at the friday rebalancing and withdraw it, even if it represents more than the margin you first put in for your position, just leaving enough for the margin necessary for the open position ?
[2016-05-06 18:45:20] tscha : well, that's the whole idea behind rebalancing
[2016-05-06 18:46:05] tscha : but the rebelance info should be in the contract details, it isn't
[2016-05-06 18:46:25] tscha : rebalance*
[2016-05-06 18:48:02] sleger : i just want to have it clear here, because then the price couldnt diverge too far or it would be too easy to arb around rebalancing
[2016-05-06 19:06:21] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 25 @ 0.02
[2016-05-06 19:06:21] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 1000 @ 0.02
[2016-05-06 19:08:06] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 1300 @ 0.02
[2016-05-06 19:09:36] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 200 @ 0.02
[2016-05-06 19:09:51] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 1074 @ 0.02
[2016-05-06 19:09:52] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 500 @ 0.02
[2016-05-06 19:21:11] rentchev : can someone explain to me who gets charged the funding rate on ETHXBT?
[2016-05-06 19:22:10] habibi : so far shorters
[2016-05-06 19:24:33] BitMEX_Greg : rentchev: Please see https://www.bitmex.com/app/contract/ETHXBT as it goes into detail what the current rates are for buyers and sellers
[2016-05-06 19:48:26] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 11 @ 456.22
[2016-05-06 20:16:21] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 1631 @ 0.02
[2016-05-06 20:16:36] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 251 @ 0.02
[2016-05-06 20:16:36] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 500 @ 0.02
[2016-05-06 20:17:01] mjones : damn eth
[2016-05-06 20:17:09] habibi : xD
[2016-05-06 20:17:36] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTU16`: Buy 350 @ 573.13
[2016-05-06 20:19:33] mjones : cryptowatch needs to update bitmex futures chart. still broken
[2016-05-06 20:20:19] rentchev : Thanks @habibi and @BitMEX_Greg
[2016-05-06 20:22:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT7D`: Buy 50000 @ 461.84 **EPIC REKT** :unamused: :confounded: :astonished:
[2016-05-06 20:23:14] habibi : nice!
[2016-05-06 20:27:27] BitMEX_Sam : That got eaten fast.
[2016-05-06 20:37:41] rentchev : wow
[2016-05-06 20:37:42] rentchev : 50k
[2016-05-06 20:37:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 5000 @ 459.83
[2016-05-06 20:39:32] rentchev : BitMEX_Sam: trailing stop in BTC is confusing
[2016-05-06 20:39:43] rentchev : how do I figure out what my stop should be
[2016-05-06 20:40:16] rentchev : let's say I have a position of 500 ETHXBT and currently am up 0.15 XBT
[2016-05-06 20:40:46] rentchev : If I put a trailing stop of 0.15 XBT will the stop be executed when I am flat?
[2016-05-06 20:41:00] rentchev : if the price does't go up before that of course
[2016-05-06 20:43:27] habibi : FOMO
[2016-05-06 20:43:39] mrp1nk : moon
[2016-05-06 20:50:39] rapidtrades : let's break this b1tch
[2016-05-06 20:51:50] rapidtrades : ether in the shitter
[2016-05-06 21:04:31] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT7D`: Buy 2000 @ 467.89
[2016-05-06 21:08:27] rapidtrades : will we pop $470 today fellas? place ur bets!
[2016-05-06 21:16:41] Samirum : rapidtrades: pop to $480
[2016-05-06 21:16:47] Samirum : Today
[2016-05-06 21:16:58] Samirum : Place your bet
[2016-05-06 21:44:43] rentchev : not going to see $480 today
[2016-05-06 21:47:14] rapidtrades : rentchev: ur right, $490 seems more likely
[2016-05-06 21:47:42] rapidtrades : until settlement though :)
[2016-05-06 21:48:57] rapidtrades : we need that china fomo
[2016-05-06 21:49:06] Halaman : BitMEX_Sam: Hi! I have a question?
[2016-05-06 21:49:15] rapidtrades : that gambooool moneh
[2016-05-06 21:49:29] rapidtrades : herro i buys bitcorn go up yez?
[2016-05-06 21:49:57] rapidtrades : sorry that's not very realistic of the average chinese
[2016-05-06 21:50:58] Halaman : BitMEX_Sam: Do we get liquidated based on the mark price. When mark price matches the liq.price?
[2016-05-06 21:51:03] rapidtrades : herro *cough* i buys bitcorn *cough* *cough* go up *cough* yez?
[2016-05-06 21:51:19] rapidtrades : ^^^that is though
[2016-05-06 21:53:32] BTCDJS : rapidtrades: ?