This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2016-05-03 01:38:12] BitMEX_Arthur : yeah but who is going to sell you that fixed rate
[2016-05-03 01:38:14] gaoMex : BitMEX_Arthur: Quoine is not that reputable. Check out their thread in bitcointalk
[2016-05-03 01:38:47] j8 : wouldn't it be equivalent to the premium on a 3 month future? assuming the p2p swap market tracks properly
[2016-05-03 01:40:53] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes but you are fixing something, the rolling daily
[2016-05-03 01:40:59] BitMEX_Arthur : Which means you will price the fixed rate very high
[2016-05-03 01:41:07] BitMEX_Arthur : to compensate for vol of rates
[2016-05-03 01:41:40] BitMEX_Arthur : i'm not saying it can't be priced, but it's over the heads of 99% of bitcoin traders
[2016-05-03 01:41:47] j8 : yeah, no doubt
[2016-05-03 01:41:49] BitMEX_Arthur : they just want to go long with a lot of leverage and not worry about expiry
[2016-05-03 01:42:09] miramm1115 : I hope we will get a lot of those
[2016-05-03 01:42:35] BitMEX_Arthur : That's the goal
[2016-05-03 02:50:13] miramm1115 : most plausible explanation of Wright's motives: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4hflr3/craig_wrights_signature_is_worthless/d2pm2rc
[2016-05-03 02:51:32] BitMEX_Arthur : miramm1115: That makes a lot of sense
[2016-05-03 02:52:29] miramm1115 : yep, makes perfect sense now. now he can point to media articles saying that he verified the ownership of the keys
[2016-05-03 02:52:44] BitMEX_Arthur : The economist no less
[2016-05-03 02:52:59] miramm1115 : exactly
[2016-05-03 02:53:42] BitMEX_Arthur : The question is Gavin and Jon are they in on this, or have then been hoodwinked
[2016-05-03 02:54:09] BitMEX_Arthur : They are both doing serious damage to their crypto reputation
[2016-05-03 02:54:19] BitMEX_Arthur : So either they are getting a huge pay check or they actually have been had
[2016-05-03 02:57:50] miramm1115 : they could've been duped. I don't have the link to the reddit comment but looks like the script had a small 'error' and was basically showing a content of a file instead of the output from the SSL command
[2016-05-03 02:58:37] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETH7D`: Sell 404 @ 0.02202
[2016-05-03 03:36:27] zanza : ?
[2016-05-03 03:57:20] viptrader : eth pumping
[2016-05-03 03:58:56] alchemist : woo
[2016-05-03 04:05:04] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Arthur: I think catering to Retail guys like the high leverage, but don't understand expiry......is not a good longterm strategy
[2016-05-03 04:08:10] rapidtrades : the leverage hasn't been a selling point for most here, it was the opportunity presented by the different contracts
[2016-05-03 05:28:29] zanza : ✋?✋?✋?✋? o shit waddup ? here ? come dat bଠi??
[2016-05-03 05:33:04] rapidtrades : HaKceD?
[2016-05-03 05:33:07] tscha : Plot Twist: The real Satoshi is now going to sign the message "I am Craig Wright" so people will stop looking for him.
[2016-05-03 05:37:32] arbitrage001 : tscha: have link?
[2016-05-03 05:37:45] arbitrage001 : source that is
[2016-05-03 05:40:04] tscha : That was a joke
[2016-05-03 07:38:55] rapidtrades : pretty wide spreads on finex
[2016-05-03 07:49:18] donatan : bitmex. how many more times i will open to big order because sell/buy button will not show any reaction
[2016-05-03 07:49:34] donatan : no notification, no change in lists
[2016-05-03 07:49:43] donatan : until page refresh
[2016-05-03 07:50:34] donatan : i fucken rekt my account on the flush crash correction because of that.
[2016-05-03 07:50:50] BitMEX_Arthur : Please send us a support request and we can take a look into your specific account.
[2016-05-03 07:58:02] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 1985 @ 445.73
[2016-05-03 07:58:02] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 173 @ 445.96
[2016-05-03 08:05:22] BitMEX_Wally : donatan: I am seeing a lot of WebSocket disconnects from your client
[2016-05-03 08:08:38] donatan : that is correct
[2016-05-03 08:09:27] donatan : and still if transaction is open i should have at least a notification
[2016-05-03 08:10:40] BitMEX_Wally : The notification is sent via WebSocket
[2016-05-03 08:11:25] BitMEX_Wally : After a timeout period the browser detects if the WebSocket has dropped, and tries to re-connect and refresh
[2016-05-03 08:11:33] donatan : Willy: i dont care. if it can reach server i should get response. architectual flaws is not an excuse
[2016-05-03 08:12:42] BitMEX_Wally : If your internet connection is dropping packets, then the architecture is irrelevant. The notification is not getting to your browser.
[2016-05-03 08:13:05] BitMEX_Wally : WebSocket is a TCP connection which is meant to guarantee delivery, etc.
[2016-05-03 08:13:49] BitMEX_Wally : You might be able to reach our server via HTTP requests, but they could be going via a web cache proxy or something, and they are one-way synchronous. You need a direct WebSocket connection for realtime updates
[2016-05-03 08:17:03] zanza : tscha would be funny
[2016-05-03 08:20:00] moneypakyaw : ETH going high look on the chart we will see it on 15$+ http://www.livecoinchart.net
[2016-05-03 08:22:00] tscha : what kind of scam link is that?
[2016-05-03 08:22:19] zanza : keylogger
[2016-05-03 08:23:30] tscha : why on earth would anybody trade with a closed source 3rd party software
[2016-05-03 08:49:50] zanza : why would people keep funds on cryptsy?
[2016-05-03 08:50:22] zanza : why do bitcoin invest into 3x ponzis?
[2016-05-03 08:55:03] tscha : that was a rethorical question. the answer is that they are morons.
[2016-05-03 08:56:18] tscha : but well, you can maybe make money off a ponzi if you get out early, and people might have made money on cryptsy before they took out their money their too
[2016-05-03 08:58:23] tscha : but using closed source 3rd party software can't possibly benefit you, because you can do exactly the same using own software. And it's ridiculously easy to program a bot in python, ever for non-programmers this shouldn't take more than 2 days.
[2016-05-03 08:58:57] tscha : The Bitcoin community is just too scammy for those kind of things
[2016-05-03 09:32:21] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETH7D`: Sell 882 @ 0.02174
[2016-05-03 10:04:21] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETH7D`: Sell 150 @ 0.02140
[2016-05-03 10:09:21] messiaen8844 : BitMEX isn't using Tradeblock anymore for market price reference?
[2016-05-03 10:09:53] BitMEX_Arthur : messiaen8844: Correct
[2016-05-03 10:09:58] BitMEX_Arthur : we are using the Kaiko BitMEX Index
[2016-05-03 10:10:14] BitMEX_Arthur : https://www.kaiko.com/bitmex
[2016-05-03 10:14:06] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETH7D`: Sell 494 @ 0.02129
[2016-05-03 10:14:44] messiaen8844 : ok, thanks
[2016-05-03 10:52:30] moneypakyaw : ETH down to 6$ check that chart http://www.livecoinchart.net/
[2016-05-03 10:52:58] tscha : the new index seems cool
[2016-05-03 10:53:41] tscha : finally weights are available via websocket for traders
[2016-05-03 10:55:57] rapidtrades : ''the new index seems cool'' tscha 2016
[2016-05-03 10:56:44] rapidtrades : BAN THIS SPAMMER >>>moneypakyaw
[2016-05-03 11:29:50] rapidtrades : its funny watching systems section on trading forums
[2016-05-03 11:30:37] rapidtrades : if we've trending everyone will post their powerful trend system
[2016-05-03 11:30:48] rapidtrades : if we're ranging opposite
[2016-05-03 11:31:24] rapidtrades : and they always do it in such absolute terms...everyone says do X BUT I DO Y...I'm so speshul
[2016-05-03 11:37:15] arbitrage001 : rapidtrades: trending system works well on index
[2016-05-03 11:37:59] arbitrage001 : you only need to ccatch a few trends a year to profit nicely
[2016-05-03 11:38:18] arbitrage001 : large daily trend that is
[2016-05-03 11:38:28] rapidtrades : stock indexes?
[2016-05-03 11:38:34] arbitrage001 : yes
[2016-05-03 11:38:44] arbitrage001 : dow, sp, nasdaq
[2016-05-03 11:38:52] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETH7D`: Sell 1350 @ 0.02120
[2016-05-03 11:39:08] rapidtrades : im sure it does...my point was how ppl shift to whatever works at the moment
[2016-05-03 11:39:21] rapidtrades : literally on a monthy basis
[2016-05-03 12:40:13] ikeeteet : hi guys I have a confirmed withdraw and I have rechecked the send address but it did not show up in the address it was sent to.. This was over 12 hours ago
[2016-05-03 12:40:41] ikeeteet : blockchain.info is not showing any of it.
[2016-05-03 12:41:09] j8 : withdrawals are processed once daily. should be 20 minutes from now
[2016-05-03 12:41:33] ikeeteet : ah ok thanks!
[2016-05-03 12:49:59] tscha : Satoshi going to move coins according to BBC
[2016-05-03 12:51:14] tscha : http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36193006
[2016-05-03 12:52:32] BitMEX_Sam : That's not what it says - it says `As far as I can see it, if Dr Wright can move one of Satoshi's bitcoins - as promised - that should convince many of the doubters.`
[2016-05-03 12:54:09] tscha : >His PR handlers have told me that "in the coming days" he will provide more compelling evidence by moving a bitcoin known to be controlled by Satoshi.
[2016-05-03 12:55:33] tscha : did you ctrl-f "move"? :)
[2016-05-03 12:55:50] BitMEX_Sam : Haha you got me - skimmed it and noticed the end
[2016-05-03 12:55:54] BitMEX_Sam : You're right
[2016-05-03 12:56:10] j8 : he's also claimed he's not directly in control of his keys though right
[2016-05-03 12:56:22] BitMEX_Sam : Well, anyway, we'll see. It's all talk until something actually happens, and so far he's been shady as hell.
[2016-05-03 12:56:38] tscha : j8: well, he kinda *has* to claim that
[2016-05-03 12:57:47] viptrader : DUMPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP ETH
[2016-05-03 12:57:51] viptrader : FLASH CRASH COMING
[2016-05-03 12:59:08] tscha : If he says he has direct access to the keys, it would make kidnapping/extortion retardedly easy. It's already a pretty risky move to admit that you are Satoshi, admitting you have direct access to $400 million is suicidal.
[2016-05-03 12:59:56] tscha : Especially since transactions are irreversible
[2016-05-03 13:00:21] tscha : Bitcoin is a dream come true for blackmailers
[2016-05-03 13:00:48] BitMEX_Sam : Sure is. We can see that in how quickly malware started searching for wallet.dat files and extorting users
[2016-05-03 13:02:56] j8 : tscha: but he also claims to be signing things with the keys. so they are in his direct control
[2016-05-03 13:05:38] tscha : j8: I am not 100% sure he signed the message while he was with Gavin in London. I just know that the verification took place there.
[2016-05-03 13:06:09] tscha : BitMEX_Sam: or malware replacing addresses in the clipboard... good thing you have a prefix for your addresses
[2016-05-03 13:06:50] BitMEX_Sam : As a lot of people have pointed out, there are tons of ways to prove your identity to an individual without giving them something they can use to prove it to the public
[2016-05-03 13:06:59] BitMEX_Sam : And you would think that these two cryptographers would know that.
[2016-05-03 13:07:05] tscha : j8: you are right, he witnessed him signing
[2016-05-03 13:08:07] j8 : yeah, having someone in the room with you and your private keys is unnecessary risk
[2016-05-03 13:11:16] tscha : It's the only way to show that you are in possession of the keys though, isn't it?
[2016-05-03 13:14:07] j8 : it might be the only way to link his physical person (i.e. biometrics) to possession
[2016-05-03 13:14:36] tscha : Yeah, he could just relay the message to the real Satoshi and let him sign it otherwise.
[2016-05-03 13:15:20] j8 : but a signed message from early blocks stating that it's craig would satisfy a lot of people
[2016-05-03 13:15:38] tscha : If he really moves his coins, then his weird blog post could indeed have just been meant as a "tutorial" so people understand what he is doing.
[2016-05-03 13:16:19] j8 : if those coins move, all bets are off. thats serious new information
[2016-05-03 13:18:17] BitMEX_Sam : I agree, it's hugely unnecessary risk to meet someone in person - it would have been easy to sign a message proving it
[2016-05-03 13:18:26] rapidtrades : tscha: how is admitting u have 400mil suicidal? there are 1000s of billionaires running around u dummy
[2016-05-03 13:19:27] tscha : It's 100x easier and faster to transfer 400m via bitcoin than via the banking system. Plus, it's hard to trace if you mix the coins in the darknet.
[2016-05-03 13:19:40] rapidtrades : so what
[2016-05-03 13:19:42] rapidtrades : idiot
[2016-05-03 13:19:49] rapidtrades : u still have to cash it out
[2016-05-03 13:20:24] habibi : tscha: it's really hard to mix that ammount of coins and u know it
[2016-05-03 13:20:38] rapidtrades : how are u gonna get him to give u the coins? u still have to kidnap him or smth
[2016-05-03 13:20:53] rapidtrades : all that will leave a trail
[2016-05-03 13:21:15] tscha : well they couldn't mix 400m in one day, I guess that is pretty much clear, but there are services mixing 2000btc per 24h
[2016-05-03 13:22:42] rapidtrades : look at how silk road went down....ppl make mistakes
[2016-05-03 13:22:51] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETH7D`: Sell 1000 @ 0.02110
[2016-05-03 13:23:26] tscha : Anyhow, doing it with Bitcoin is much much easier and convenient for criminals
[2016-05-03 13:24:06] rapidtrades : doing what? some low level computer freeze is not the same as kidnapping
[2016-05-03 13:24:58] rapidtrades : unless satoshi lives in mexico or russia, he'll be fine
[2016-05-03 13:25:06] rapidtrades : or africa
[2016-05-03 13:26:30] tscha : kidnapping is not the hard part. the hard part is getting away with the money.
[2016-05-03 13:26:47] rapidtrades : lol how the f do u know
[2016-05-03 13:27:19] rapidtrades : most criminals are not very smart...that's why they're criminals
[2016-05-03 13:27:45] mrp1nk : rapidtrades: lol
[2016-05-03 13:28:46] mrp1nk : what if the smart criminals simply dont get prosecuted
[2016-05-03 13:28:49] tscha : It's logical. If you kidnap someone and make him transact $100m onto your bank account and then leave his house and get away, there is no way you will be able to access the money on your account.
[2016-05-03 13:29:07] sleger : that's wrong
[2016-05-03 13:29:38] sleger : you dont watch enough tv !
[2016-05-03 13:30:51] habibi : tscha: but why u still believe its him after he made that crap proof on his blog?
[2016-05-03 13:32:01] tscha : habibi: I am not 100% convinced unless he proves it publically, but I think it is more likely for him being a weirdo than them doing a MITM attack on the hotel wifi. That's just so super incredibly unlikely.
[2016-05-03 13:32:35] habibi : yea but electrum guys says no download from uk @this day LOL:D
[2016-05-03 13:34:18] sleger : maybe they just had a mifi in their pocket with a name that looked similar to hotel wifi ?
[2016-05-03 13:34:41] tscha : habibi: That's not correct. He just said that the signature file wasn't downloaded.
[2016-05-03 13:37:07] tscha : Since electrum.org is https, an mitm attack is even harder to do. Not impossible, but very unrealistic. Him just being a weirdo doing confusing blog posts seems much more likely in my opinion.
[2016-05-03 13:37:38] tscha : We will find out I guess.
[2016-05-03 13:39:45] habibi : so again, he said he will never come to media again after bbc interview, lets hope he will deliver it :)
[2016-05-03 14:51:45] habibi : BitMEX_Sam: why u dont ban scammer like him
[2016-05-03 15:00:20] sleger : http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/cf-bitcoin-reference-rate.html
[2016-05-03 15:15:17] BitMEX_Sam : habibi: Missed this msgs last night, will remove
[2016-05-03 15:19:32] BitMEX_Sam : Leaderboard will go live very soon - note all user entries are anonymized. If you wish to remove your entry regardless, or put your real username on your entry, see https://www.bitmex.com/app/preferences
[2016-05-03 15:55:14] tscha : http://www.drcraigwright.net/extraordinary-claims-require-extraordinary-proof/
[2016-05-03 16:01:10] tscha : So yeah, very very likely this guy is Satoshi.
[2016-05-03 16:02:33] sleger : why not move a block now then
[2016-05-03 16:08:12] habibi : tscha: extraordinary proof sounds like some bullshit, simple msg signed with genesis block priv key is enought
[2016-05-03 16:09:29] tscha : This is probably the most exciting moment in this guys life, I can understand that he is nervous.
[2016-05-03 16:09:48] tscha : Maybe he also doesn't want to shake up the market too much, hence the "slow" multi-stage reveal
[2016-05-03 16:12:21] habibi : simple 1. signed msg 2. i am not going to sell anything till xxxx 3. hello world
[2016-05-03 16:14:07] BitMEX_Sam : Oh come on... how can he simultaneously claim that he wants to be left alone while making these blog posts & reaching out to media orgs
[2016-05-03 16:14:46] BitMEX_Sam : In the time he spent writing that message he could easily sign a message with his name, date and time... done. Anything else is just buying time
[2016-05-03 16:21:41] BTCVIX : BitMEX_Sam: did you read that post on reddit about the ATO -- I think actually that has the pieces lining up the most -- he had to get the ATO to believe he was Satoshi or he couldn't claim to have once possessed and signed over those coins -- also I believe that is why he can't (if he is) actually move genesis block coins
[2016-05-03 16:21:56] BitMEX_Sam : Makes sense to me too.
[2016-05-03 16:22:06] BTCVIX : https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4hm5l1/telling_craig_wright_deflected_question_about/
[2016-05-03 16:22:51] BTCVIX : it is very interesting none the less
[2016-05-03 16:23:59] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah. He's so obviously full of it to anyone with the technical skills to verify - but for a tax office? Might be enough unless the shitstorm gets bit enough for them to see it
[2016-05-03 16:24:14] tscha : the cool thing is that he said he will provide proof - so doesn't matter if he is satoshi or not, the next days are going to be interesting :)
[2016-05-03 16:24:18] BTCVIX : in a way it actually makes me believe his case more as he is stuck between what he told the ATO and what the community sees as an easy solution to prove it -- ie if he still can move genesis block coins then is that fraud ? as he still has possession of them
[2016-05-03 16:24:20] tscha : I feared he would just remain silent from now on
[2016-05-03 16:24:22] BitMEX_Sam : He's just buying time - this blog post today is all about delaying another few days. Same reason he put a signature in a jpeg
[2016-05-03 16:24:40] BitMEX_Sam : He keeps saying he'll move coins from an early block, not from the genesis block
[2016-05-03 16:24:50] BitMEX_Sam : I'm sure the real Satoshi would easily understand why that is an important distinction
[2016-05-03 16:25:03] tscha : I don't think you can move coins from the genesis block
[2016-05-03 16:25:27] BitMEX_Sam : I think you're right about that, but you could sign a message with that key
[2016-05-03 16:25:50] BitMEX_Sam : I vaguely recall some article about how the genesis block coins were bugged. Not sure
[2016-05-03 16:27:19] BTCVIX : BitMEX_Sam: the good thing about bitcoin is it would make an Oscar winning film writer blush -- the plot twists and turns are incredible
[2016-05-03 16:28:01] BitMEX_Sam : Haha yes. The sequel to "Snowden"?
[2016-05-03 16:28:25] sleger : if he has to pay taxes he will have to sell some of his bitcoins...
[2016-05-03 16:29:04] tscha : Plot twist: Edward Snowden is Satoshi
[2016-05-03 16:29:18] tscha : gosh that would be so cool
[2016-05-03 16:29:20] BitMEX_Sam : That's an Oliver Stone movie I'd watch
[2016-05-03 16:29:30] BitMEX_Sam : Can't wait for some serious movie hacking UIs
[2016-05-03 16:29:57] tscha : supporting role: BitMEX_Sam
[2016-05-03 16:30:30] BitMEX_Sam : You all know I'm just on http://hackertyper.com/ all day
[2016-05-03 16:36:10] j8 : sleger: if he generated coins when they were pretty much worthless and hasn't sold them it may be a small tax liability. although maybe he also owes unrelated taxes and could be forced to sell
[2016-05-03 16:52:14] sleger : if he gave/lent them to a different entity (seychelles trust), they may consider this a taxable event
[2016-05-03 16:52:36] bitbucks : Satoshi was most likely small group, finney included
[2016-05-03 16:53:06] sleger : but i admit i havent followed all details of that story
[2016-05-03 16:53:21] bitbucks : S N Went quiet after he got sick
[2016-05-03 16:54:20] tscha : bitbucks: finney started mining after I think 70 blocks
[2016-05-03 16:55:49] tscha : And finney said he was the first miner after satoshi. But of course he could be wrong and some early miner could have snuck in.
[2016-05-03 16:57:44] bitbucks : https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1nc13r/the_first_50btc_block_reward_cant_be_spend_why/
[2016-05-03 16:57:45] tscha : Satoshi needs to use keys from an address that is known to be Satoshis to verify his identity.
[2016-05-03 16:59:45] sleger : craig just signed the original block : http://i.imgur.com/DDod3Iu.jpg
[2016-05-03 17:01:59] BitMEX_Sam : :+1: serious mspaint skills
[2016-05-03 17:06:40] sleger : (link taken from reddit, not mine)
[2016-05-03 17:33:33] rapidtrades : something's not wright with that...
[2016-05-03 17:38:09] rapidtrades : andreas Ablablaholus is such an ahole
[2016-05-03 17:43:38] rapidtrades : ''i refused to verify satoshi'' hunchback
[2016-05-03 17:46:09] rapidtrades : same guy who catered to the PC crowd by saying ''I want to believe she's sitting in the crowd and watching''
[2016-05-03 17:46:47] rapidtrades : rly douche....what are the odds for that....yeah right about 0.01%
[2016-05-03 18:36:09] rapidtrades : $450 here we come
[2016-05-03 18:45:22] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETH7D`: Sell 645 @ 0.02129
[2016-05-03 19:15:52] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETH7D`: Sell 350 @ 0.02090
[2016-05-03 20:47:33] habibi : can someone buy a little of this 450:09?
[2016-05-03 20:47:39] habibi : 10-100 just for tests
[2016-05-03 20:51:35] habibi : anyway BitMEX_Sam i am paying fees even i am maker on 24h, using hidden order but getting filled for lower than visible part.
[2016-05-03 21:00:41] miramm1115 : habibi: what do you want me to buy?
[2016-05-03 21:02:04] habibi : miramm1115: nothing, thanks
[2016-05-03 21:04:58] miramm1115 : ok, let me know if you want to test again. it's not a problem for me, I'll do it if I'm here
[2016-05-03 21:08:58] habibi : miramm1115: could u buy these two asks?
[2016-05-03 21:09:02] habibi : 25 each
[2016-05-03 21:09:44] habibi : Thanks
[2016-05-03 21:10:04] sleger : habibi: hidden order always pays fees, thats normal
[2016-05-03 21:10:27] BitMEX_Greg : habibi: thanks sleger I was just about to say. The hidden order, even if a maker, will pay the taker fee
[2016-05-03 21:10:39] BitMEX_Greg : Please see: https://www.bitmex.com/app/fees
[2016-05-03 21:11:20] habibi : sleger: my bad then, thought it was said that only for not visible part
[2016-05-03 21:11:51] sleger : habibi: it would make sense to be only for non visible part yes
[2016-05-03 21:12:50] miramm1115 : habibi: supposed to pay fees for hidden part only
[2016-05-03 21:13:15] habibi : miramm1115: yep i remember talk about it, but guess i am wrong :p
[2016-05-03 21:13:52] miramm1115 : I remember Wally was saying that, but maybe they changed it
[2016-05-03 21:31:46] BitMEX_Greg : habibi: Hi habibi, its my understanding that you should only be paying the taker fee for the order that was hidden. So if you have 20 hidden and 10 shown, and someone hits you for 15, then you only pay on 5. If you have been charged for the 15 then there might be a bug. The issue has been raised to Wally to look into when he's online
[2016-05-03 21:34:13] habibi : yep, i had 5k visible, several times been hitted for 2k separately. guess it was the same in past so let me know :) damm u change ur mind pretty fast :p
[2016-05-03 21:36:21] BitMEX_Sam : The confusion is around what proportion of the order pays taker, and which pays maker - Wally should be online soon and will bring some clarity as to what the intended behavior is.
[2016-05-03 21:36:28] BitMEX_Greg : I should have elaborated on my previous statement, only the hidden part pays the taker fee. Apologies for that
[2016-05-03 21:39:19] habibi : BitMEX_Greg: no propotions in my case, i paid on all
[2016-05-03 21:40:19] BitMEX_Greg : Noted, Wally will clear up when he's in.
[2016-05-03 21:40:41] habibi : BitMEX_Greg: no apologies needed :) thanks for clarification
[2016-05-03 22:25:48] rapidtrades : guy quoting 6.60 on finex, get cancer
[2016-05-03 23:04:20] rapidtrades : habibi: how's it going? bull or bear?
[2016-05-03 23:04:33] habibi : kinda strange but bull
[2016-05-03 23:04:52] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETH7D`: Sell 3 @ 0.02083 :punch: :whale:
[2016-05-03 23:10:37] rapidtrades : habibi: f*Ck yeah, go bullz!
[2016-05-03 23:28:51] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETH7D`: Sell 50 @ 0.02062
[2016-05-03 23:28:52] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETH7D`: Sell 221 @ 0.02063
[2016-05-04 02:00:19] viptrader : ETH dump to 203 coming
[2016-05-04 02:09:03] j8 : i see the leaderboard is up
[2016-05-04 02:11:33] viptrader : nop, see the massive dump in the next 5 minutes
[2016-05-04 02:18:52] viptrader : i prefer throwing my money out of the window than buying ETH here
[2016-05-04 02:20:03] viptrader : google ETH in 20 years from now, the first word will be "scam"
[2016-05-04 02:26:37] alchemist : xbt48 was good the last few days, pretty easy trades
[2016-05-04 02:51:22] micmix : j8: my dev/test account is #24 with 240% ROE. sounds about right, I deposited 4 coins, withdrew 12.2 and still have some left
[2016-05-04 02:52:12] j8 : micmix: i believe if you deposit and withdraw a lot the ROE% goes down
[2016-05-04 02:53:40] micmix : BitMEX_Sam said that the formula is (balance+withdrawals)/deposits, so shouldn't matter
[2016-05-04 02:54:19] micmix : ah, I see
[2016-05-04 02:54:28] j8 : (balance+withdrawals-deposits)/deposits i think
[2016-05-04 02:56:29] micmix : too bad there is no top volume
[2016-05-04 02:56:57] micmix : I'm interested in only one trader: main MM
[2016-05-04 02:58:45] j8 : yeah, well they are probably high profit, low ROE
[2016-05-04 02:59:14] micmix : my bet: Cream-White-Ox is sleger
[2016-05-04 02:59:33] micmix : or maybe Alabaster-Mire-Tooth
[2016-05-04 03:00:11] j8 : nah, Alabaster has 1746% ROE
[2016-05-04 03:00:18] j8 : sleger was rich when he got here ;)
[2016-05-04 03:00:34] micmix : Cream-White-Ox looks more like MM
[2016-05-04 03:01:28] micmix : first time we talked sleger said that he went from 8 coins to 40 when he started here
[2016-05-04 03:02:18] j8 : oh thats not rich
[2016-05-04 03:07:00] micmix : going to make an account with username Almond-Cookie-Soarer
[2016-05-04 03:07:44] j8 : sneaky, looks like they thought of that with the Is Real Name column though
[2016-05-04 03:08:09] micmix : yeah
[2016-05-04 03:15:05] BitMEX_Arthur : In your account preferences you can select if you would like your real username to appear
[2016-05-04 03:15:47] micmix : j8: you are right of course the formula is (balance+withdrawals-deposits)/deposits. I'm a bit slow tonight :-)
[2016-05-04 03:19:14] micmix : don't know why but I enabled my real username ;-)
[2016-05-04 03:20:31] micmix : at least everyone will see that I don't have a lot of coins and won't try to hack my account
[2016-05-04 03:20:40] j8 : yeah it's tricky to define it better than that, although it does underestimate roe
[2016-05-04 03:24:11] micmix : something like weighted average of realized PNL/margin for all closed positions?
[2016-05-04 03:25:36] j8 : yeah that would do it
[2016-05-04 03:27:01] micmix : way too difficult to calculate though
[2016-05-04 03:28:54] j8 : most people have an idea of their own ROE, it's more interesting to see the notional profit anyway
[2016-05-04 03:29:22] micmix : yep, I would like to see the volumes as well
[2016-05-04 03:29:50] j8 : yeah, they would be pretty ridiculous i imagine
[2016-05-04 03:33:02] j8 : actually profit/volume would be another ranking you could do
[2016-05-04 03:33:29] micmix : distribution is quite telling, looks like top 2 made more than all other traders together
[2016-05-04 03:33:47] j8 : just about
[2016-05-04 03:37:35] j8 : bitmex whales
[2016-05-04 03:38:38] BitMEX_Arthur : We have all sorts of fun stats
[2016-05-04 03:38:41] BitMEX_Arthur : Planned
[2016-05-04 03:38:55] BitMEX_Arthur : and the ability to post your balance and pnl right in the chat, if you choose obviously
[2016-05-04 03:39:33] BitMEX_Arthur : So we know who is a BSD, and who is merely a flaccid noodle
[2016-05-04 03:46:38] micmix : BitMEX_Arthur: very cool, I'll spam my 1 coin balance all the time!
[2016-05-04 03:47:26] BitMEX_Arthur : Oh and we might charge for the privilege :smirk:
[2016-05-04 03:47:45] micmix : 10% of the balance :-)
[2016-05-04 03:48:02] BitMEX_Arthur : We aren't greedy men, we wouldn't do that
[2016-05-04 03:49:11] micmix : leaderboards and chat bragging, it's good marketing
[2016-05-04 03:49:42] j8 : i will puke if i see a post to facebook button..
[2016-05-04 03:49:49] j8 : just sayin'
[2016-05-04 03:49:52] BitMEX_Arthur : Haha
[2016-05-04 03:49:59] micmix : works even on me, now I want to run another test on this account to get to top 25 notional
[2016-05-04 03:50:09] BitMEX_Arthur : :)
[2016-05-04 03:50:13] BitMEX_Arthur : :smile:
[2016-05-04 05:37:50] arbitrage001 : dont see leaderbboard
[2016-05-04 05:37:56] arbitrage001 : anyone have link?
[2016-05-04 05:38:48] BitMEX_Wally : Under Help -> Leaderboard
[2016-05-04 05:38:49] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.bitmex.com/app/leaderboard
[2016-05-04 05:39:44] arbitrage001 : geez, 541 btc profit
[2016-05-04 06:29:00] tscha : Super-surprised to see me in both lists, considering I made this account in January and have had extremely low volume since the API change in February (which I still didn't incorporate lol)
[2016-05-04 06:30:43] tscha : micmix: You think 2nd one is MM? I doubt any of the first two are MMs.
[2016-05-04 06:52:33] tscha : BitMEX_Wally: Is the leaderboard real-time? You should add a random 12h-24h delay, otherwise it's (theoretically) possible for people to observe changes, reconstruct position sizes and force liquidations
[2016-05-04 06:53:58] tscha : Especially if people are in both lists, since that allows to reconstruct the highest possible balance, so liquidation price can be determined
[2016-05-04 06:54:19] miramm1115 : tscha: first one by notional could be main MM, they are not in the top ROE so have lots of coins deposited here
[2016-05-04 07:01:54] BitMEX_Wally : miramm1115: It is an hourly snapshot I think
[2016-05-04 07:04:25] BitMEX_Wally : Plus it is only on the wallet balance, i.e. after rebalance or settlement
[2016-05-04 07:04:33] miramm1115 : BitMEX_Wally: could you add top by volume as well?
[2016-05-04 07:05:10] BitMEX_Wally : I'd have to add that calculation to the engine so Sam could publish it
[2016-05-04 07:06:11] miramm1115 : don't worry about it, I'm sure you have more important things to do :-)
[2016-05-04 07:16:25] rapidtrades : good morning fellas
[2016-05-04 07:17:31] rapidtrades : wtf 541 btc profit
[2016-05-04 07:17:49] rapidtrades : what's the timeframe?
[2016-05-04 07:17:55] miramm1115 : rapidtrades: that's you, right?
[2016-05-04 07:18:02] rapidtrades : of course its me
[2016-05-04 07:18:02] miramm1115 : lol
[2016-05-04 07:19:52] rapidtrades : what's the timeframe for the data?
[2016-05-04 07:22:06] tscha : BitMEX_Wally: yeah, volume would be nice <3
[2016-05-04 07:23:03] miramm1115 : rapidtrades: lifetime
[2016-05-04 07:23:56] tscha : funny, my old account is in both lists too
[2016-05-04 07:27:31] tscha : Well, while volume would be nice, I think it's pretty dangerous as it gives even more insight on how a user trades. There definitely should be some time-randomized-delay in case volume is added.
[2016-05-04 07:28:58] BitMEX_Arthur : The Swaps Guide is now up https://www.bitmex.com/app/swapsGuide
[2016-05-04 07:29:12] BitMEX_Arthur : We are going live very soon with `ETHXBT`, more information will be coming shortly
[2016-05-04 07:29:22] rapidtrades : ugh
[2016-05-04 07:49:07] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETH7D`: Buy 68 @ 0.02128
[2016-05-04 08:01:05] tscha : BitMEX_Arthur: hope it takes you another few weeks until swaps go live, don't have time to update my bots :)
[2016-05-04 08:01:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETH7D`: Buy 42 @ 0.02145
[2016-05-04 08:02:09] tscha : BitMEX_Arthur: just chill and go for a walk. there are better things to do than working 24/7, and HK is a beautiful city
[2016-05-04 08:03:10] tscha : meh, I'll just spam Wally and Sam with funny bitcoin youtube vids to distract them :)
[2016-05-04 08:06:20] miramm1115 : BitMEX_Wally: how can I get the funding rate from the API?
[2016-05-04 08:08:52] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETH7D`: Buy 3 @ 0.02177 :punch: :whale:
[2016-05-04 08:09:28] tscha : BitMEX_Arthur: BTW; there are some typos in the swaps guide, ctrl-f for "derease" and "currecy"
[2016-05-04 08:09:48] BitMEX_Arthur : thanks
[2016-05-04 08:09:58] BitMEX_Arthur : miramm1115: It's on the instrument table
[2016-05-04 08:10:19] BitMEX_Arthur : https://testnet.bitmex.com/api/explorer/
[2016-05-04 08:10:27] BitMEX_Arthur : All the new fields are there on Testnet
[2016-05-04 08:10:27] miramm1115 : BitMEX_Arthur: thanks, I'll check on the testnet
[2016-05-04 08:16:07] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETH7D`: Buy 1915 @ 0.02223
[2016-05-04 09:17:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETH7D`: Buy 917 @ 0.02227
[2016-05-04 09:18:17] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT48H`: Sell 70 @ 448.32
[2016-05-04 09:19:21] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETH7D`: Buy 14 @ 0.02245
[2016-05-04 09:21:52] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 1 @ 447.20 :punch: :whale:
[2016-05-04 09:21:52] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 1050 @ 446.80
[2016-05-04 09:21:52] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 10000 @ 447.00
[2016-05-04 09:22:36] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT7D`: Sell 550 @ 446.41
[2016-05-04 09:22:36] REKT : Next stop - goblin town!
[2016-05-04 09:31:32] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 2280 @ 445.75
[2016-05-04 09:31:32] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 7000 @ 445.87
[2016-05-04 09:31:51] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT7D`: Sell 1000 @ 446.00
[2016-05-04 09:32:02] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT7D`: Sell 3333 @ 445.72
[2016-05-04 09:32:02] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 7 @ 445.32
[2016-05-04 09:32:25] tscha : interesting
[2016-05-04 10:16:21] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETH7D`: Sell 35 @ 0.02156
[2016-05-04 10:25:48] dorothy490 : fix labels on charts
[2016-05-04 10:26:01] dorothy490 : for example ETH7D shows 2 labels in pruple and i ngreen
[2016-05-04 10:26:06] dorothy490 : both overlapping current price
[2016-05-04 10:26:18] dorothy490 : so its impossible to see actual price on ETH7D chart
[2016-05-04 10:29:14] rapidtrades : its on trading view
[2016-05-04 10:29:28] rapidtrades : charts here are buggy
[2016-05-04 11:02:56] Panoukla : i use cryptowatch for charts
[2016-05-04 11:06:57] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT48H`: Sell 497 @ 445.09
[2016-05-04 11:08:17] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT7D`: Sell 5501 @ 444.86
[2016-05-04 11:08:17] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 44 @ 444.38
[2016-05-04 11:08:17] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 88 @ 444.27
[2016-05-04 12:28:20] germanjew : small typo on https://www.bitmex.com/app/swapsGuide, section Daily Funding: "Each day, buyers of swap instruments will pay funding on the quote currecy and receive funding on the base currency. " - currecy
[2016-05-04 12:35:19] mrp1nk : short more niggaz
[2016-05-04 12:37:04] j8 : lol
[2016-05-04 12:39:09] tscha : price is going to crash the next days IMHO
[2016-05-04 12:39:28] tscha : hold me for that statement
[2016-05-04 12:40:56] habibi : define crash
[2016-05-04 12:49:42] tscha : <430
[2016-05-04 12:51:57] j8 : there's still a huge amount of open interest on okc quarterly, i wouldn't be surprised to see another leg down and big capitulation there
[2016-05-04 12:53:53] arbitrage001 : j8: why not go up with huge open interest?
[2016-05-04 12:54:25] j8 : when we were testing 470 that was the bigger risk
[2016-05-04 12:57:03] j8 : this whole rally, longs have been higher leveraged (if you can trust the avg margin used stats, and if i'm reading them right)
[2016-05-04 13:01:52] j8 : and as we've seen... it takes more time and effort to go up
[2016-05-04 15:15:31] BitMEX_Greg : morning all
[2016-05-04 15:29:14] tscha : Countdown for Satoshi's pieces of evidence I guess
[2016-05-04 15:30:16] tscha : Anybody wants to bet on that with me? With some Bitmex Admin as escrow
[2016-05-04 15:30:57] habibi : tscha: there are already bets on some sites for that
[2016-05-04 15:31:03] habibi : saw them yday
[2016-05-04 15:31:12] tscha : only some millibits, nothing more
[2016-05-04 15:31:28] tscha : i don't wanna bet a lot, just 1 btc or something
[2016-05-04 15:32:07] BitMEX_Wally : tscha: What is your bet?
[2016-05-04 15:33:05] habibi : BitMEX_Wally: whats the story with fees on hidden order?
[2016-05-04 15:33:25] BitMEX_Wally : habibi: So the docs say `A Hidden order always pays the taker fee. An Iceberg order pays the taker fee until the hidden quantity is completely executed, then it becomes a normal order.`
[2016-05-04 15:33:37] BitMEX_Wally : This is correct and is slightly different from how it was first implemented
[2016-05-04 15:34:19] tscha : BitMEX_Wally: I bet that he is Satoshi and will prove so, means proving that he is in possession of addresses of either the genesis block or the tenth block (height == 9) or the private PGP key, until June 1st, 2016, 00:00 UTC
[2016-05-04 15:34:40] habibi : BitMEX_Wally: k, understood
[2016-05-04 15:35:01] BitMEX_Wally : If you have an order for 100 and display qty of 10 then you will pay the taker fee until the leavesQty is 10 or less
[2016-05-04 15:35:31] BitMEX_Wally : Once leavesQty is 10 or less you can earn the maker fee
[2016-05-04 15:36:20] BitMEX_Wally : If there is a completely hidden order, and you execute against it, then the initiator gets paid the maker fee (assuming it was a limit order)
[2016-05-04 15:36:49] BitMEX_Wally : habibi: I will take your bet minus the PGP block
[2016-05-04 15:37:05] habibi : thought its completely otherwise :)
[2016-05-04 15:37:16] BitMEX_Wally : 1 Bitcoin says that he fails to sign anything with the private key of the Genesis block or first 10 blocks
[2016-05-04 15:37:18] habibi : BitMEX_Wally: --> tscha
[2016-05-04 15:37:29] BitMEX_Wally : Haha sorry
[2016-05-04 15:37:34] BitMEX_Wally : tscha: I will take your bet
[2016-05-04 15:38:08] alchemist : BitMEX_Wally: Its a good bet
[2016-05-04 15:38:15] alchemist : BitMEX_Wally: ... for you
[2016-05-04 15:38:15] tscha : BitMEX_Wally: good, but WITH the PGP key obviously.. it's a private key
[2016-05-04 15:38:30] BitMEX_Wally : habibi: If you execute against hidden orders you have to be paid the maker fee, otherwise the ParticipateDoNotInitiate flag would be used to sniff hidden orders
[2016-05-04 15:38:44] BitMEX_Wally : Actually ParticipateDoNotInitiate will initiate against a hidden order, but only because it get paid the maker fee
[2016-05-04 15:39:12] BitMEX_Wally : tscha: Satoshi never signed anything with that PGP key, and there is nothing to link it to him.
[2016-05-04 15:39:23] habibi : so it still sniffing kinda :)
[2016-05-04 15:39:40] BitMEX_Wally : habibi: Sniffing by trading
[2016-05-04 15:39:44] BitMEX_Wally : Which you can do anyway...
[2016-05-04 15:40:28] BitMEX_Wally : tscha: Please email your terms to wally@bitmex.com (minus the PGP) and I'll reply to confirm the bet
[2016-05-04 15:40:36] habibi : true, go back guys to ur bet, wanna see its real deal :)
[2016-05-04 15:41:18] BitMEX_Wally : In the event of a dispute I'm sure the Trollbox will gladly mediate
[2016-05-04 15:41:19] alchemist : any of you on the leaderboard
[2016-05-04 15:41:53] tscha : BitMEX_Wally: true, just googled that. ok, will do.
[2016-05-04 15:42:22] BitMEX_Wally : I'm looking for a publicly verifiable signature of a public message that includes the words Craig Wright and some indication of the date
[2016-05-04 15:42:37] BitMEX_Wally : Not some random binary that could be a previous Satoshi tx
[2016-05-04 15:43:16] habibi : like " I am Craig Wright, today's btc price is 447.84, and Tscha won his bet"
[2016-05-04 15:43:31] BitMEX_Wally : Hahah that would do it
[2016-05-04 15:48:03] tscha : BitMEX_Wally: are you deducting the bet amount from my account meanwhile? lol
[2016-05-04 15:48:13] BitMEX_Wally : Nah
[2016-05-04 15:48:17] BitMEX_Wally : Gentleman's agreement
[2016-05-04 15:48:27] tscha : Good
[2016-05-04 15:49:04] tscha : But don't close down Bitmex and run with the money if you lose the bet
[2016-05-04 15:50:52] BitMEX_Wally : Even if I lose the bet I still won't think he's Satoshi, but that he was probably involved with Kleiman and Finney in the early days and they were Satoshi
[2016-05-04 15:51:32] BitMEX_Wally : Assuming he doesn't present any more evidence in the mean time
[2016-05-04 15:55:51] tscha : The only way I can lose is if he is Satoshi, but just refuses to prove it.
[2016-05-04 15:57:51] BitMEX_Wally : Or he's not Satoshi and can't prove a falsehood...
[2016-05-04 15:58:13] tscha : Seems incredibly unlikely to me. Mail is out btw.
[2016-05-04 15:58:27] habibi : tscha: for example look at his posts on blog.. he used to write at diffrent style that people noticed its not familiar with old satoshi style( double space between paras)...yday post boom he changed his style :) he is really trying to convince people but simplest proof is the hardest thing for him
[2016-05-04 16:05:00] tscha : habibi: Wanna bet 0.5 BTC with me?
[2016-05-04 16:05:41] habibi : just trying to understand ur point of view, nah
[2016-05-04 16:07:38] BitMEX_Wally : tscha: I replied
[2016-05-04 16:07:51] tscha : BitMEX_Wally: why does he have to sign a message with it? moving coins also proves the possession of the keys, and that is what he said is going to do
[2016-05-04 16:08:05] tscha : (he said he will move coins to prove ownership)
[2016-05-04 16:08:32] BitMEX_Wally : Ok, reply with that
[2016-05-04 16:08:36] BitMEX_Wally : As an option
[2016-05-04 16:13:49] BitMEX_Sam : Just curious, why would he move coins rather than simply sign a message?
[2016-05-04 16:15:30] BitMEX_Sam : I would find a signed `"Craig Wright is Satoshi, May 4 2016"` message much more convincing than some coins moving - coins moving may only prove that has access to Satoshi, if he exists, not that he *is* Satoshi
[2016-05-04 16:17:01] tscha : How does signing a message prove more that signing a transaction?
[2016-05-04 16:17:11] tscha : oh, yeah
[2016-05-04 16:17:19] tscha : that he *had* access
[2016-05-04 16:17:36] tscha : because *has* would be clearly wrong
[2016-05-04 16:20:15] BitMEX_Sam : Moving coins means that someone somewhere has access, and listens to things Craig asks him to do - assuming they go to an address at a time in a quantity Craig foretells
[2016-05-04 16:20:30] BitMEX_Sam : SIgning a message means that Craig either has the keys, or whoever does is willing to say that Satoshi is Craig
[2016-05-04 16:20:48] BitMEX_Sam : Which is a bit more. Perhaps pedantic - but then again, this whole thing is completely ridiculous to start
[2016-05-04 16:21:11] BitMEX_Wally : `test`
[2016-05-04 16:23:56] tscha : BitMEX_Sam: I still don't get it, maybe because I'm super high
[2016-05-04 16:23:59] alchemist : *Does anyone here use the maket maker bot?
[2016-05-04 16:24:08] alchemist : I'm going to try and fire it up
[2016-05-04 16:24:11] tscha : alchemist: yeah the 1st guy in the ranking does
[2016-05-04 16:24:18] alchemist : are you serious?
[2016-05-04 16:24:23] alchemist : thats sweet
[2016-05-04 16:24:48] BitMEX_Sam : The difference is authorization vs authentication tscha
[2016-05-04 16:24:49] tscha : yeah he only changed like 1 or 2 parameters and then the money kept flowing in.
[2016-05-04 16:25:07] tscha : BitMEX_Sam: ah.... 1st situation, he listens.. 2nd situation, he writes
[2016-05-04 16:25:14] BitMEX_Sam : ^^^ Wishful thinking re: mm bot
[2016-05-04 16:25:24] alchemist : BitMEX_Sam: do you recommend it?
[2016-05-04 16:25:31] BitMEX_Sam : Yes & no
[2016-05-04 16:25:41] BitMEX_Sam : The point of it that we provide all the code you need to get real-time market data and place orders
[2016-05-04 16:25:54] BitMEX_Sam : But it is up to you to import pricing data from the other exchanges and figure out your own trading strategies
[2016-05-04 16:26:17] BitMEX_Sam : Trading bots are certainly not a series of `1. Turn it on. 2. Print money` :)
[2016-05-04 16:27:06] j8 : it's a great starting point. saves you from doing a lot of api stuff from scratch
[2016-05-04 16:29:49] tscha : BitMEX_Sam: "The difference is authorization vs authentication" - I still don't get it :(. Explain for dummies pls
[2016-05-04 16:30:18] BitMEX_Sam : The point is that moving coins is authentication - he's proving that someone somewhere can move these coins, but not that he's the one doing it
[2016-05-04 16:30:38] BitMEX_Sam : Signing a message where the content says `Craig Wright is Satoshi` is authentication.
[2016-05-04 16:30:49] BitMEX_Sam : Sorry - first one, moving coins, is authorization, not authentication - these words are too similar
[2016-05-04 16:31:38] alchemist : im a novice coder, so this will be a handful to setup
[2016-05-04 16:31:44] alchemist : i'll report back
[2016-05-04 16:31:47] BitMEX_Sam : So by moving coins, he's showing that he or someone else has the keys to move them. But whoever has the keys is not necessarily Craig, or is not willing to say that Craig is actually Satoshi. The most you could be sure of is that they know each other, if the coins are indeed delivered to an address of Craig's choice
[2016-05-04 16:32:52] alchemist : im CHAPPED the drive doc doesnt work
[2016-05-04 16:33:47] tscha : BitMEX_Sam: if they move coins because Graig tells them to, then they *are* willing to say what Graig tells them to.
[2016-05-04 16:35:00] BitMEX_Sam : alchemist: Which doc?
[2016-05-04 16:35:18] alchemist : XBT pricing
[2016-05-04 16:35:25] BitMEX_Sam : tscha: Maybe Satoshi is just willing to play ball, but not willing to outright say that Craig is him. But this is all moot anyway and I understand that the distinction is very small
[2016-05-04 16:35:26] alchemist : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ImBQlxXLcJzbr_NoDWy3UvQ7mxvEikN3jvn7mfqL3AI/edit#gid=1645759410
[2016-05-04 16:35:28] BitMEX_Sam : We'll see what happens
[2016-05-04 16:35:37] rapidtrades : who moved what
[2016-05-04 16:35:46] BitMEX_Sam : Nobody has, yet
[2016-05-04 16:35:52] BitMEX_Sam : alchemist: I'll update it
[2016-05-04 16:38:19] tscha : I still don't see any distinction lol. Maybe I'm too stupid. But it doesn't matter if he say to the owner of the keys "please move 1 BTC for me" or "sign a message craight == wright for me". In both cases, they are willing to do what he is saying.
[2016-05-04 16:39:21] j8 : it's unlikely but possible that he has a presigned transaction for 1 BTC
[2016-05-04 16:39:49] tscha : Yeah, be Sam said "*has* access", not *had* access.
[2016-05-04 16:39:55] tscha : be = but*
[2016-05-04 16:40:57] tscha : oh, wait
[2016-05-04 16:41:05] tscha : You are right.
[2016-05-04 16:42:24] BitMEX_Sam : alchemist: You can now be unchapped
[2016-05-04 16:42:36] BitMEX_Sam : Some new columns broke the layout, but it's fixed now
[2016-05-04 16:42:59] j8 : gross
[2016-05-04 16:43:59] alchemist : BitMEX_Sam: hey, how is a discount relevant when I cant buy spot on bitmex? is it related to the 24hxbt
[2016-05-04 16:45:10] BitMEX_Sam : Well, if the point is to sell futs and buy spot, thereby making the basis, if the futs are trading at a discount you've already lost
[2016-05-04 16:45:28] alchemist : does the maket maker work similar to artbitrage?
[2016-05-04 16:45:56] alchemist : so only buy at a discount?
[2016-05-04 16:46:02] tscha : BitMEX_Sam: you said "So by moving coins, he's showing that he or someone else **has the keys** to move them.", which explicitly mentioning *keys* which is more than just a signed transaction
[2016-05-04 16:46:06] alchemist : can you do it backwards or would that kill you
[2016-05-04 16:46:30] alchemist : i.e. buy futures, sell spot?
[2016-05-04 16:50:13] tscha : If he has the private keys, he could also sign a message. Proving that he has the keys is enough and the whole goal.
[2016-05-04 16:52:51] alchemist : do market makers usually use limit orders?
[2016-05-04 16:54:23] rapidtrades : yes
[2016-05-04 16:54:49] BitMEX_Greg : alchemist: You can do a reverse arb, essentially borrow btc (on btcjam or bitfinex for example), sell them on bitfinex or wherever they are overpriced relative to the futures, buy the futures. Need to take into account your borrow rate vs the basis. When these prices converge that is when you close the trade
[2016-05-04 16:55:39] alchemist : okay so the real way to arb is to buy from an exchange at a discount, i got you
[2016-05-04 16:55:58] alchemist : cash and carry kind of seems similar though
[2016-05-04 16:56:07] alchemist : im just learning how to do this
[2016-05-04 16:56:49] j8 : it's basically risk free if you can buy XBT futures at a discount and sell spot
[2016-05-04 16:57:35] BitMEX_Greg : You need to take into account spread + exchange fee cost too, you can't just analyse what the basis is
[2016-05-04 16:58:22] j8 : if you sell the futures at a premium and buy spot, you can lose if the price moves a large amount, up or down