This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
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[2016-05-04 17:01:47] BitMEX_Greg : Yes, there exists some non-linearity to the pnl on spot vs pnl on futures
[2016-05-04 17:02:11] BitMEX_Greg : As price moves you need to constantly readjust your portfolio, as you would with an option hedge
[2016-05-04 17:10:39] alchemist : for example, with the small price difference now you could probably buy every friday and sell daily roll, but the fees would eat up your gains
[2016-05-04 17:12:13] alchemist : BitMEX_Sam: can you fix this one, too? v
[2016-05-04 17:12:16] alchemist : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mHsaDNetxCoZW3bvQkP8NaqeGBebVeFw6jYqbFffJOI/edit#gid=1847040472
[2016-05-04 17:12:25] BitMEX_Sam : :+1:
[2016-05-04 17:13:13] BitMEX_Sam : Hang on - what's the issue with that one?
[2016-05-04 17:13:23] BitMEX_Sam : Those contracts are just placeholders, there's not actual market data in there - it's educational only
[2016-05-04 18:20:16] alchemist : BitMEX_Sam: I just noticed you authored the market maker
[2016-05-04 18:20:34] alchemist : in a few sentences, can you explain how it would make money
[2016-05-04 18:21:06] alchemist : i think i understand the concept on market making, i don't understand how or why its profitable though
[2016-05-04 18:21:14] alchemist : concept of
[2016-05-04 18:21:18] BitMEX_Sam : Well, if you assume optimal conditions, it's as simple as selling for a higher price than you're buying
[2016-05-04 18:21:33] BitMEX_Sam : Imagine selling 100 XBT of contracts at $452 while buying 100 back at $450
[2016-05-04 18:22:08] BitMEX_Sam : That's primarily how MMs make money - the larger the spread, the more they make.
[2016-05-04 18:22:18] BitMEX_Sam : On BitMEX they also make money by being on the maker side of the transaction.
[2016-05-04 18:22:41] BitMEX_Sam : Now, if the market moves, they have to start adjusting their quotes so they don't end up too long or too short, and/or hedge on other exchanges
[2016-05-04 18:22:52] BitMEX_Sam : Without any hedging strategy, an MM is always on the wrong side of a move
[2016-05-04 18:23:52] alchemist : interesting, very neat.
[2016-05-04 18:24:09] alchemist : so you would always keep in mind the direction you want to go, or would you just hedge per say
[2016-05-04 18:24:32] alchemist : is it something you setup proactively in the strategy or do you react
[2016-05-04 18:24:35] BitMEX_Sam : Well, if you're running this a business, there is no "direction you want to go" you want to be as flat as possible all the time
[2016-05-04 18:25:02] BitMEX_Sam : Generally MMs aren't in the business of predicting the markets - that's generally foolhardy
[2016-05-04 18:25:16] BitMEX_Sam : They're in the business of providing quotes and staying flat so they don't get creamed when the market does move
[2016-05-04 18:25:37] alchemist : this is what im getting to, realizing i can't predict anything so i want to do something else
[2016-05-04 18:26:00] alchemist : BitMEX_Sam: what is 'optoken'
[2016-05-04 18:26:10] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, join the club. I am generally an awful trader, so I wrote code instead
[2016-05-04 18:26:35] BitMEX_Sam : alchemist: You're probably thinking of `OTPToken`, OTP is a one-time password
[2016-05-04 18:26:50] BitMEX_Sam : Aka Google Auth, Yubikey
[2016-05-04 18:26:50] alchemist : ... do i need to populate that?
[2016-05-04 18:26:57] alchemist : for the bot
[2016-05-04 18:27:23] alchemist : i added the user, password, api token ands ecret
[2016-05-04 18:29:01] BitMEX_Sam : If you have an API key you just need APIKey and APISecret
[2016-05-04 18:29:05] alchemist : i appreciate you helping me, sam
[2016-05-04 18:29:11] BitMEX_Sam : also be sure to run on testnet
[2016-05-04 18:29:19] BitMEX_Sam : You don't want to spend real Bitcoin while you evaluate.
[2016-05-04 18:29:29] alchemist : but i don't know what to put for that other value, otptoken or whatever
[2016-05-04 18:29:31] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, np. Slower day than most today so I have a bit of time.
[2016-05-04 18:29:34] BitMEX_Sam : Keep it blank
[2016-05-04 18:29:47] alchemist : thanks. blank as in, erase the placeholder?
[2016-05-04 18:29:52] BitMEX_Sam : They're mutually exclusive - either you auth with user/pass/[otpToken], or APIKey/APISecret
[2016-05-04 18:30:01] BitMEX_Sam : Just `OTPTOKEN = ""`
[2016-05-04 18:30:15] BitMEX_Sam : doesn't really matter either way. If it sees an API key it will ignore the user/pass/token
[2016-05-04 18:32:24] rapidtrades : who's ready for a yuan devaluation?
[2016-05-04 18:32:28] BitMEX_Sam : This looks very similar to the bet tscha just took: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4husd6/i_will_bet_up_to_100_btc_that_craig_wright_is_not/
[2016-05-04 18:32:42] alchemist : do 'base url' and symbol need editing aswell?
[2016-05-04 18:32:54] alchemist : i dont especially understand puthon
[2016-05-04 18:34:40] BitMEX_Sam : You might want to spend some time learning then - otherwise this will be an uphill battle
[2016-05-04 18:34:48] BitMEX_Sam : http://learnpythonthehardway.org/
[2016-05-04 18:35:02] BitMEX_Sam : Free online version is at http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/
[2016-05-04 18:35:56] alchemist : if i used to do C & C++ do you think this will help?
[2016-05-04 18:36:10] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah. There's similarities for sure.
[2016-05-04 18:36:11] alchemist : I just want to see and test this script i really dont care to master the craft
[2016-05-04 18:36:34] alchemist : do you think its feasible to set it up in a couple hours?
[2016-05-04 18:36:43] alchemist : like how much of an undertaking IS this lol
[2016-05-04 18:37:31] rapidtrades : we don't provide help in this chat, per se
[2016-05-04 18:37:42] rapidtrades : its more to brag and/or shit on everyone else
[2016-05-04 18:37:58] BitMEX_Sam : It's big. You might be able to get some small quotes up pretty quickly, but it's a long piece of work if you want to run it 24/7
[2016-05-04 18:38:07] BitMEX_Sam : You could get it working on Testnet in a few minutes though.
[2016-05-04 18:38:17] BitMEX_Sam : Just hook up your API keys, set the size & symbol you want to quote and go to town.
[2016-05-04 18:39:06] rapidtrades : dam i need to learn python
[2016-05-04 18:39:18] rapidtrades : how much does it cost to hire a grunt programmer
[2016-05-04 18:39:26] rapidtrades : to do my data analysis
[2016-05-04 18:43:43] alchemist : BitMEX_Sam: where is the size variable?
[2016-05-04 18:44:02] rapidtrades : is notepad++ different from the regular windoze notepad
[2016-05-04 18:45:02] rapidtrades : http://notepad-plus-plus.org/
[2016-05-04 18:45:06] BitMEX_Sam : alchemist: Look through the whole settings file
[2016-05-04 18:45:28] BitMEX_Sam : It's in the order size & spread section
[2016-05-04 18:45:34] rapidtrades : what python shell do i use
[2016-05-04 18:45:39] BitMEX_Sam : rapidtrades: I recommend Sublime Text, but a lot of Windows programmers like Notepad++
[2016-05-04 18:46:03] rapidtrades : python 2 or 3?
[2016-05-04 18:46:55] BitMEX_Sam : Either will work with our bot
[2016-05-04 18:47:51] rapidtrades : what has more support in terms of addons or whatever u ppl call them
[2016-05-04 18:48:06] rapidtrades : for trading/testing
[2016-05-04 18:49:53] j8 : mostly the same but i'd say you might as well use 3
[2016-05-04 18:57:48] rapidtrades : was thinking the same thing
[2016-05-04 18:57:56] rapidtrades : so that book is useless
[2016-05-04 18:58:11] BitMEX_Sam : Not useless, much of the language is the same
[2016-05-04 18:58:18] rapidtrades : USELESS
[2016-05-04 18:58:30] BitMEX_Sam : And while they encourage everyone to use Py3 now, there is still a significant proportion of the community (majority?) that is still on Py2
[2016-05-04 18:58:45] rapidtrades : ah cool
[2016-05-04 18:59:11] rapidtrades : by the time i learn this shit we're gonna be moving to 4
[2016-05-04 19:06:00] j8 : i started doing python to prototype things i was planning on doing in c++... but it turns out i never get around to doing that
[2016-05-04 19:06:42] j8 : it's more useful to be always prototyping
[2016-05-04 19:07:09] BitMEX_Sam : Python can be pretty fast under the right conditions
[2016-05-04 19:07:14] BitMEX_Sam : New asyncio stuff under 3.5+ is promising
[2016-05-04 19:07:28] BitMEX_Sam : In general if I'm expecting a lot of I/O I stick with Node
[2016-05-04 19:07:50] BitMEX_Sam : Especially now that I have a solid workflow with typechecking going - it's much easier to catch errors in Node than in Python
[2016-05-04 19:08:21] j8 : do you use an IDE for node?
[2016-05-04 19:08:43] BitMEX_Sam : Just Sublime Text
[2016-05-04 19:08:56] BitMEX_Sam : Just a few days ago a guy released really nice Flow integration for it
[2016-05-04 19:09:02] BitMEX_Sam : Not 100% necessary but definitely convenient
[2016-05-04 19:09:22] BitMEX_Sam : I tried Atom/Nuclide, as Nuclide has a lot of FB code in it - and they're very rigorous - but Atom is just far too slow for daily use
[2016-05-04 19:09:46] j8 : i see
[2016-05-04 19:31:06] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 86 @ 445.57
[2016-05-04 20:16:22] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETH7D`: Sell 1998 @ 0.02124
[2016-05-04 20:36:50] alchemist : hi, if you do a limit order type, are you the maker'
[2016-05-04 20:45:19] BitMEX_Greg : alchemist: That's correct, as long as your limit order does not cross over an opposing limit order then you will be a maker. E.g. if you place a buy limit below the current best sell limit then you will be a maker, if you place this buy limit above that best sell limit then you will be a taker of that preexisting sell limit order
[2016-05-04 21:01:52] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETH7D`: Sell 251 @ 0.02117
[2016-05-04 21:55:51] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETH7D`: Sell 1 @ 0.02093 :punch: :whale:
[2016-05-04 22:06:39] rapidtrades : who's ready for CNY devaluation?
[2016-05-04 22:06:57] micmix : rapidtrades: Chinese people?
[2016-05-04 22:07:07] rapidtrades : i really doubt that
[2016-05-04 22:23:33] rapidtrades : micmix: how many markets do u trade? outside of MM
[2016-05-04 22:28:21] sleger : outside of MM ? what does that mean ?
[2016-05-04 23:03:50] viptrader : RIP ETH
[2016-05-04 23:04:59] micmix : rapidtrades: not sure I understand the question
[2016-05-04 23:06:52] viptrader : SELL SELL SELL ETH
[2016-05-04 23:13:08] tscha : lol https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4hx3q9/according_to_the_mtgox_leaks_from_early_2014_our/
[2016-05-04 23:14:37] habibi : i would be suprised its that craig but if yes tehn buhahahha :D
[2016-05-04 23:15:52] habibi : ah, australian dollar, interesing
[2016-05-04 23:22:45] BitMEX_Sam : Ohhh man.
[2016-05-04 23:33:23] alchemist : H
[2016-05-04 23:33:27] alchemist : Hmmmm
[2016-05-05 00:24:18] alchemist : Why am I immediately -PNL after opening a position? Shouldn't I earn with the maker fee?
[2016-05-05 00:26:59] BitMEX_Sam : alchemist: PNL's based on the mark price - so if you bought above or sold below, you'll see an immediate negative PNL
[2016-05-05 00:30:40] micmix : cool, ETHXBT this Friday. 2 days to update and test the bot :-)
[2016-05-05 00:30:55] BitMEX_Sam : Should be mostly the same - just a few new bits of data.
[2016-05-05 00:32:46] BitMEX_Wally : Just like the weekly `execType: Rebalance` execution, you now have a daily `execType: Funding` execution
[2016-05-05 00:32:56] BitMEX_Wally : Funding hits your realisedPnl immediately
[2016-05-05 00:33:21] BitMEX_Wally : If you have isolated margin enabled then it comes out of that
[2016-05-05 00:43:08] micmix : almost the same from the API point of few, quite a bit different from algo trading point of view bc of funding costs @BitMEX_Sam
[2016-05-05 00:43:44] BitMEX_Sam : Sure - lots of very interesting strategies to develop
[2016-05-05 00:44:13] BitMEX_Wally : `fundingRate` on the `instrument` table is charged on positions at `fundingTime`
[2016-05-05 00:44:58] BitMEX_Wally : `fundingRate` is published 24 hours before it is charged
[2016-05-05 00:57:11] zanza : I think I am a bit bearing for BTC< if Craig Wright has to pay $53 million to Australian Tax Officials, that would mean him liquidating quite a lot of Bitcoin with downward price pressure
[2016-05-05 00:57:16] zanza : bearish*
[2016-05-05 00:58:43] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 100 @ 449.28
[2016-05-05 00:58:43] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT48H`: Buy 150 @ 449.99
[2016-05-05 00:58:43] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT48H`: Buy 500 @ 450.06
[2016-05-05 01:54:51] zanza : is this true? http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-04/eu-plans-290k-person-fine-countries-refusing-fair-share-refugees-angry-response-ensu
[2016-05-05 02:01:40] habibi : i think 250k euro, but yea
[2016-05-05 02:05:11] QuantFocus : Hey guys, I'm new here...trying to interpret the marginality and math behind the XBTU16 contract
[2016-05-05 02:05:28] zanza : anything more specific?
[2016-05-05 02:05:38] QuantFocus : I'm I correct in calculating 178 contracts to equate to a single xbt?
[2016-05-05 02:06:06] QuantFocus : And I don't quite understand how to utilize the leverage slider on the order page
[2016-05-05 02:06:07] zanza : just type in 178 into the "Quantity"
[2016-05-05 02:06:16] zanza : Cost: 0.0413 XBT Cost: 0.0409 XBT Order Value: 0.9907 XBT
[2016-05-05 02:06:25] zanza : yes, so you are correct
[2016-05-05 02:08:18] QuantFocus : So, hypothetically, if I want to use full leverage on 1 xbt, or 25 xbt total for sept. settlement, i need to buy/sell 4450 contracts?
[2016-05-05 02:08:28] QuantFocus : Or do I buy/sell 178, and use the slider to max my leverage to 25x?
[2016-05-05 02:09:22] j8 : the leverage just changes the amount of margin backing the position.. the order value is the same for however many contracts
[2016-05-05 02:09:26] zanza : Its the same I believe
[2016-05-05 02:09:55] zanza : so your 1 XBT can give you 1-25x leverage
[2016-05-05 02:09:58] QuantFocus : Ahh, so if I set it to 25x, less will be reserved for the position, and more available to trade?
[2016-05-05 02:10:40] zanza : yes
[2016-05-05 02:10:44] BitMEX_Wally : Yes, so if you buy/sell 4450 contracts with 25x it has a buy cost of around 1 XBT which is the margin required
[2016-05-05 02:11:06] BitMEX_Wally : Look at the `Cost: 1.0137 XBT` underneath the Buy/Sell buttons
[2016-05-05 02:11:40] QuantFocus : I see it. Okay, so that's the margin requirement...just held in reserve, right? Or is that the cost in commission?
[2016-05-05 02:12:46] BitMEX_Wally : Just the margin requirement
[2016-05-05 02:13:00] BitMEX_Wally : 25x is 4%
[2016-05-05 02:13:14] QuantFocus : Excellent. And is 'cross' simply max leverage, or does that infer something else?
[2016-05-05 02:13:32] BitMEX_Wally : Cross means it uses your whole margin balance to fund the position
[2016-05-05 02:14:06] QuantFocus : Sweet.
[2016-05-05 02:14:07] BitMEX_Wally : Try opening a small position and adjusting the leverage slider
[2016-05-05 02:14:22] BitMEX_Wally : Cross margin will give you the best (i.e furthest away) liquidation price
[2016-05-05 02:14:36] QuantFocus : More of my balance at risk though, right?
[2016-05-05 02:14:40] BitMEX_Wally : Yes
[2016-05-05 02:14:49] QuantFocus : Got it.
[2016-05-05 02:15:11] QuantFocus : So...4450 seems like a massive order given the book currently
[2016-05-05 02:16:06] zanza : the far expiry contracts have high slippage, yes
[2016-05-05 02:16:08] QuantFocus : zanza: @j8 @BitMEX_Wally - appreciate the assistance, btw
[2016-05-05 02:16:40] BitMEX_Wally : QuantFocus: Let me ask one of the market makers if they can quote bigger on XBTU16 for you
[2016-05-05 02:17:00] QuantFocus : haha, really, or are you joking?
[2016-05-05 02:17:05] BitMEX_Wally : REally
[2016-05-05 02:17:18] j8 : i already put some quotes, but yeah get the mm in there
[2016-05-05 02:18:39] j8 : i wouldn't put your whole balance at 25x on `XBTU16` though.
[2016-05-05 02:18:53] QuantFocus : No no, just testing the waters
[2016-05-05 02:19:58] QuantFocus : Wouldn't want a 3% swing to wipe me out
[2016-05-05 02:22:48] podizzle3k : really using polo's lending rates
[2016-05-05 02:23:03] podizzle3k : their lending rates are horrendous
[2016-05-05 02:33:39] QuantFocus : Right on guys. I'll mess around a bit more later, but appreciate the help tonight
[2016-05-05 02:33:45] QuantFocus : Cheers all.
[2016-05-05 02:35:55] BitMEX_Wally : podizzle3k: Where would you recommend we get an ETH lending rate from? There isn't enough liquidity on Bitfinex
[2016-05-05 02:37:00] podizzle3k : i dont know i just remember feeling like i was bleeding out last time i margin traded on polo
[2016-05-05 02:37:17] podizzle3k : hopefully its not as bad on the new ethxbt
[2016-05-05 02:37:27] j8 : at least this way you get paid on one side
[2016-05-05 02:38:10] j8 : and instead of paying the btc rate to long, you pay btc rate minus eth rate
[2016-05-05 02:39:09] podizzle3k : ill give it a shot its just not something i thought was neccessary for a non expiry contract
[2016-05-05 02:42:59] habibi : u can take it from finex btc lending rates instead polo eth but as u want
[2016-05-05 02:49:36] BitMEX_Wally : The current XBT rate from Poloniex is 8 bps/day, and the ETH rate is 2 bps/day. So if you are long ETHXBT you will pay 6 bps/day
[2016-05-05 02:50:21] BitMEX_Wally : If you are short you will earn 6 bps/day
[2016-05-05 02:51:21] BitMEX_Wally : Because we are marking ETHXBT to the Poloniex price it makes sense to take the rates from there too
[2016-05-05 02:51:34] BitMEX_Wally : When we launch XBTUSD we might take the XBT and USD rates from Bitfinex
[2016-05-05 02:52:21] BitMEX_Wally : We are currently 2.4 bps/day for XBT and 14.5 bps/day for USD on Bitfinex
[2016-05-05 02:52:38] BitMEX_Wally : So if you are long XBTUSD you would pay 12 bps/day
[2016-05-05 02:54:27] j8 : 14.5, really
[2016-05-05 02:55:23] BitMEX_Wally : https://api.bitfinex.com/v1/lendbook/USD
[2016-05-05 02:56:06] j8 : those are annualized
[2016-05-05 02:56:10] BitMEX_Wally : We look at what rate we would pay if we lifted the offer for 500,000 USD
[2016-05-05 02:57:09] BitMEX_Wally : `rate [rate in % per 365 days]`
[2016-05-05 02:57:14] BitMEX_Wally : You are right, my apologies
[2016-05-05 02:58:23] j8 : it's confused me before, i dunno why they put percent p.a. in the api but percent per day on the site
[2016-05-05 03:02:31] BitMEX_Wally : Poloniex does absolute rate (1=100%) per day
[2016-05-05 03:34:02] BitMEX_Wally : Ok so on Bitfinex XBT is 0.65 bps/day and USD is 3.9847 bps/day
[2016-05-05 03:35:09] j8 : yeah thats more like it
[2016-05-05 03:51:20] _mr_e : How do I buy contracts for next friday? Is there any way to roll over then having to wake up at 7am on Friday to make sure I get to rebuy after settlement??
[2016-05-05 03:53:05] BitMEX_Wally : _mr_e: For Bitcoin there is XBTM16
[2016-05-05 03:53:10] BitMEX_Wally : Which expires end of June
[2016-05-05 03:53:20] BitMEX_Wally : or XBTU16 which expires end of September
[2016-05-05 03:53:50] BitMEX_Wally : ETH7D will be retired tomorrow and replaced with ETHXBT which will never expire, so your position will stay open
[2016-05-05 03:53:55] _mr_e : Price is way to high
[2016-05-05 03:54:14] BitMEX_Wally : If you think the price is to high then sell :)
[2016-05-05 03:54:29] _mr_e : I mean for June/Sept
[2016-05-05 03:54:41] _mr_e : I just want to roll over my 7 day to next week
[2016-05-05 03:55:23] _mr_e : Without having to set my alarm to screw up my sleep to insure I can rebuy at settlement price
[2016-05-05 03:57:50] BitMEX_Wally : At the moment there is no easy way to do this
[2016-05-05 03:58:17] BitMEX_Wally : But we will be launching `XBTUSD` soon which will solve this for you
[2016-05-05 03:58:23] _mr_e : Your documentation has had instructions for rolling orders got quite some time
[2016-05-05 03:58:31] _mr_e : Why not implemented yet?
[2016-05-05 03:58:44] _mr_e : This would seem like a very necessary feature
[2016-05-05 03:59:10] BitMEX_Wally : We used to have calendar spreads listed
[2016-05-05 03:59:12] BitMEX_Wally : But no-one understood them
[2016-05-05 03:59:18] _mr_e : So?
[2016-05-05 03:59:33] _mr_e : If they don't understand they don't need to use
[2016-05-05 03:59:45] _mr_e : What about those of us who do understand them?
[2016-05-05 03:59:53] BitMEX_Wally : If no-one trades them the market makers don't bother providing good prices...
[2016-05-05 04:00:29] _mr_e : All we need is to open up orders for following Friday as well as this Friday
[2016-05-05 04:00:49] _mr_e : If people are selling June, they will sell next Friday
[2016-05-05 04:01:06] BitMEX_Wally : Yeah we could list XBT14D and allow it to expire into XBT7D
[2016-05-05 04:01:17] BitMEX_Wally : (like we do with XBT48H becoming XBT24H)
[2016-05-05 04:01:37] _mr_e : Yes
[2016-05-05 04:01:46] BitMEX_Wally : But the plan is to consolidate all this liquidity into one instrument, `XBTUSD`
[2016-05-05 04:01:59] _mr_e : Would be good, I like the 7 day, June has too high premium
[2016-05-05 04:02:02] _mr_e : Risky
[2016-05-05 04:02:23] BitMEX_Wally : The premium is just a function of the time to expiry and long gamma
[2016-05-05 04:03:09] _mr_e : Yes, can be very volatile
[2016-05-05 04:03:21] _mr_e : How is xbtusd different
[2016-05-05 04:03:35] BitMEX_Wally : XBTUSD will be an inverse rather than quanto
[2016-05-05 04:03:43] BitMEX_Wally : And it will be marked to the underlying spot price
[2016-05-05 04:04:30] BitMEX_Wally : The premium on XBT7D is currently 62% in annualised terms
[2016-05-05 04:04:37] BitMEX_Wally : The premium on XBTM16 is 55%
[2016-05-05 04:05:16] BitMEX_Wally : So actually it is cheaper to go long XBTM16
[2016-05-05 04:06:39] _mr_e : But price will drop down to spot quite quickly as settlement nears and could be greatly affected by market sentiment
[2016-05-05 04:06:45] _mr_e : I find it riskier
[2016-05-05 04:07:52] _mr_e : 7 day is way closer to tracking spot
[2016-05-05 04:09:27] _mr_e : Anyway, I think 14 would be great, please consider it, thank you
[2016-05-05 04:10:18] zanza : _mr_e: there is already the problem on low liquidity on dates futures, adding more will make the issue worse
[2016-05-05 04:11:55] _mr_e : Well at the very least I need a way to place an order for next week so I don't need to get up so early evey Friday
[2016-05-05 04:12:23] _mr_e : Nothing worse then seeing my settlement price only to find now the price has changed while I was sleeping and lose profits
[2016-05-05 04:14:10] zanza : how about the monthly contact then ?
[2016-05-05 04:14:31] zanza : each time you refresh, you have to pay new set of fees also
[2016-05-05 04:15:00] _mr_e : Higher then spot price, still need to wake up early at end of month
[2016-05-05 04:15:38] _mr_e : I generally just wish to hold until a certain price, whether that will be months or daysbim not sure
[2016-05-05 04:25:58] zanza : how bout finex then ?
[2016-05-05 04:48:27] alchemist : Do you not realize the maker fee immediately?
[2016-05-05 04:52:15] BitMEX_Wally : The maker fee is immediately realised
[2016-05-05 04:52:22] BitMEX_Wally : It hits your `realisedPnl`
[2016-05-05 04:55:46] alchemist : So am I dumb or is there something I'm missing, I'm trying out limit orders to take advantage of this maker fee and I just go in the red immediately on ever position. Is it just the pip spread or change in price
[2016-05-05 04:56:16] BitMEX_Wally : Realised PNL is cumulative until settlement
[2016-05-05 04:56:39] BitMEX_Wally : So if you have traded XBT24H before it will have some PNL on it
[2016-05-05 04:57:26] BitMEX_Wally : Your unrealised PNL will fluctuate with the mark price
[2016-05-05 04:58:36] alchemist : Oh damn ibsee
[2016-05-05 04:58:45] alchemist : That makes sense thanks @BitMEX_Wally
[2016-05-05 04:59:21] alchemist : It's not like, per individual position. I get it now. I traded FOREX before.
[2016-05-05 04:59:38] alchemist : Futures I'm pretty bad with.
[2016-05-05 05:00:40] alchemist : I'm going to test out the ole market maker but wanted to experiment with the limit orders first
[2016-05-05 05:00:56] alchemist : The market maker bot I mean.
[2016-05-05 05:04:40] BitMEX_Wally : Cool, let me know if you have any questions, we're happy to help
[2016-05-05 05:14:06] alchemist : Okay what would the maker fee be on 100 contracts and how do I calculate it? Value * contracts * fee?
[2016-05-05 05:14:11] miramm1115 : alchemist: make sure to run sample MM on testnet. running it as-is without any inventory control or hedging is a good way to lose all your money fast
[2016-05-05 05:14:58] alchemist : Hedging as is xbu or taking the other side?
[2016-05-05 05:15:57] alchemist : When you say inventory control do you mean money management or ... I just want to test it and see if I can make small trades with 1btc
[2016-05-05 05:16:08] miramm1115 : delta hedging on spot, xbu way too expensive
[2016-05-05 05:16:12] cengel : @alchemist depending on your price entry, the order value for 100 contracts * 0.00025
[2016-05-05 05:17:44] miramm1115 : as far as I remember the sample MM, it just buys/sells with no limit. you can end up with huge position
[2016-05-05 05:18:18] miramm1115 : run on testnet to see what it does and how it trades
[2016-05-05 05:19:16] cengel : @miramm1115 it's just liquidbot basically https://github.com/chrisacheson/liquidbot
[2016-05-05 05:20:35] miramm1115 : I'm not familiar, does it have any position tracking?
[2016-05-05 05:22:45] miramm1115 : looks way to simple for any real use
[2016-05-05 05:24:00] miramm1115 : I would definitely run it on testnet first :-)
[2016-05-05 05:52:22] alchemist : Hey so tell me if this is right.
[2016-05-05 05:53:29] alchemist : E.g. $450 entry x 100 contracts * 0.00025 = 11.1
[2016-05-05 05:53:58] cengel : no
[2016-05-05 05:54:04] alchemist : Oops I mean $11.25
[2016-05-05 05:54:17] alchemist : About .02 btc
[2016-05-05 05:55:01] alchemist : I'm like, there's no way I'm making 0.02 btc maker fee?
[2016-05-05 05:55:36] alchemist : Been making a whole lot of orders and a whole lot of red ink lol
[2016-05-05 05:55:57] cengel : no, 100 contracts at 450 has a 0.45 BTC notional, which at 0.025% gets you a 0.0001125 rebate
[2016-05-05 06:00:28] BitMEX_Wally : alchemist: Click Acount -> Trade History https://www.bitmex.com/app/tradeHistory
[2016-05-05 06:00:56] BitMEX_Wally : The `Comm.` column, if negative, is the amount you have been making
[2016-05-05 06:01:31] BitMEX_Wally : If you only have small orders then the amount might be displayed as 0.0000 XBT but we use Satoshis when adding up
[2016-05-05 06:02:05] BitMEX_Wally : Your last trade earnt a rebate of 0.0000559 XBT
[2016-05-05 06:56:00] alchemist : Cool thanks
[2016-05-05 06:56:35] alchemist : Why is it negative when I sell, it seems?
[2016-05-05 07:00:38] alchemist : I see. It makes sense now.
[2016-05-05 07:53:32] jung1 : BitMEX_Wally: what do you think, who is satoshi?
[2016-05-05 07:53:46] BitMEX_Wally : Not Craig
[2016-05-05 07:54:21] tscha : haha
[2016-05-05 07:54:40] jung1 : yeah
[2016-05-05 07:54:42] jung1 : he is attention whore
[2016-05-05 07:55:31] tscha : jung1: I got a 1 BTC bet with Wally about that, I'm saying it's Satoshi
[2016-05-05 07:55:45] jung1 : craig?
[2016-05-05 07:55:48] jung1 : nah
[2016-05-05 07:56:07] tscha : Yes
[2016-05-05 07:56:10] jung1 : imo szabo at least knew satoshi
[2016-05-05 07:56:25] jung1 : if he is not him
[2016-05-05 07:58:30] jung1 : tscha: why you are shure that craig is satoshi? all evidence that he gave was fake
[2016-05-05 08:01:35] jung1 : but its good for whole ecosystem that craig makes noise
[2016-05-05 08:01:38] jung1 : https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/727562945840975872
[2016-05-05 08:02:39] tscha : Assange has been knowing Craig since the 90s and they don't like each other.
[2016-05-05 08:05:49] jung1 : so?
[2016-05-05 08:11:09] tscha : I think it's much more likely Craig is Satoshi. People generally give too much weight to small probabilities and conspiracy theories, this effect is even stronger in the Bitcoin community (like that they tampered the factory sealed laptop in London),
[2016-05-05 08:11:33] tscha : The explanation that he is just a odd dude seems much more likely in my opinion.
[2016-05-05 08:11:38] tscha : an*
[2016-05-05 08:13:24] tscha : Bitcoiners have a vivid fantasy, which I think is an attribute you need to have to grasp the potential of Bitcoin in the first place.
[2016-05-05 08:14:21] jung1 : well ok so why he show fake evidence
[2016-05-05 08:14:22] jung1 : ?
[2016-05-05 08:16:08] tscha : I am not 100% sure obviously, but sure enough to bet with odds == 2
[2016-05-05 08:18:10] zanza : we will find out within 1 month if he moves coins, he is satoshi
[2016-05-05 08:18:35] zanza : he seems like head in cloud academic it wouldn't surprise me
[2016-05-05 08:18:47] zanza : I think it is bearish for price though since he will probably dump soon
[2016-05-05 08:21:16] jung1 : yeah I also think that will be red on markets
[2016-05-05 08:29:32] jung1 : btw eth will be bullish now because of https://daohub.org/
[2016-05-05 08:29:42] jung1 : they collect 1.8mln eth so far
[2016-05-05 08:30:02] jung1 : and it will be frozen till end of may
[2016-05-05 08:30:26] jung1 : 17.06 M USD EQUIVALENT
[2016-05-05 08:30:33] jung1 : adn 23 days left
[2016-05-05 08:30:35] jung1 : ...
[2016-05-05 08:31:14] BitMEX_Arthur : jung1: What is the current supply of ETH
[2016-05-05 08:31:57] jung1 : 80mln
[2016-05-05 08:32:18] BitMEX_Arthur : only like 2% of float not a massive amount
[2016-05-05 08:32:49] jung1 : 60mln was in crowdsale
[2016-05-05 08:33:03] jung1 : and most of them are untouched
[2016-05-05 08:33:58] jung1 : only 7mln was mined
[2016-05-05 08:37:30] jung1 : btw daohub ico is well planned. they collect only eth and pump eth price themselves
[2016-05-05 08:37:44] jung1 : cant wait to short it
[2016-05-05 08:41:58] alchemist : How much do you make when the 24H settles on a good one?
[2016-05-05 09:31:01] uiop : alchemist: 3 litecoin cents
[2016-05-05 09:40:52] tscha : jung1: you still pushing eth?
[2016-05-05 09:41:16] jung1 : shure
[2016-05-05 09:41:30] jung1 : now im long from 0.019
[2016-05-05 09:42:09] jung1 : daohub will pump it to 27 imo
[2016-05-05 09:42:15] jung1 : or even higher
[2016-05-05 09:43:00] jung1 : second altcoin madness incomming. With daos would be same as with altcoins in'13
[2016-05-05 09:43:07] jung1 : a lot of pump and dump projects
[2016-05-05 09:43:19] jung1 : but now with much more money involved
[2016-05-05 09:43:52] sleger : whoever is investing in dao is insane
[2016-05-05 09:44:52] jung1 : still 23 day left
[2016-05-05 09:45:14] jung1 : and there is no upper limit
[2016-05-05 09:45:25] jung1 : 16mln $ so far
[2016-05-05 09:47:09] jung1 : digix, lisk, waves, daohub
[2016-05-05 09:47:19] jung1 : and its just begin
[2016-05-05 09:52:05] mrp1nk : #scamsareback
[2016-05-05 09:52:20] jung1 : yup
[2016-05-05 10:49:31] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 80 @ 446.12
[2016-05-05 10:49:51] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 88 @ 445.97
[2016-05-05 10:54:26] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT48H`: Sell 100 @ 446.68
[2016-05-05 11:00:17] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT48H`: Sell 13060 @ 445.84
[2016-05-05 11:13:50] mrp1nk : feels like stop run to me, 2/10 wouldn't short
[2016-05-05 11:16:56] mrp1nk : So Matonis just said CW wont be siging any transaction: https://mobile.twitter.com/jonmatonis/status/728168542709878784
[2016-05-05 11:31:05] zanza : too much drama
[2016-05-05 11:31:05] zanza : for me
[2016-05-05 11:32:19] mrp1nk : for me 2, i'm just monitoing the known satoshi adresses and keep trading ;-)
[2016-05-05 11:36:33] jung1 : update: daohub rised 1.9mln ethereum
[2016-05-05 11:37:00] rapidtrades : isn't it a great day to be aliiiive fellas?
[2016-05-05 11:37:21] jung1 : 100k in 4h
[2016-05-05 12:00:34] rapidtrades : dam 130k and noone wanted to trade
[2016-05-05 12:14:37] mrp1nk : lmao
[2016-05-05 12:14:39] mrp1nk : hmm.. no almost no premium on the 24h. why so bearish brus.
[2016-05-05 12:15:24] mrp1nk : what if i told you http://www.drcraigwright.net/
[2016-05-05 12:23:15] zanza : ?is this guy for real
[2016-05-05 12:25:06] j8 : lol, i guess @tscha is out some coin
[2016-05-05 12:28:16] mrp1nk : zanza: according to my sources he is
[2016-05-05 12:34:30] rapidtrades : what's going on fellas?
[2016-05-05 12:37:06] mrp1nk : nothing, just awaiting the "not satoshi confirmed" fomo
[2016-05-05 12:38:06] rapidtrades : why would ppl are if he's not satoshi
[2016-05-05 12:38:28] rapidtrades : guess this is what passes for fundamentals in this market
[2016-05-05 12:40:45] mrp1nk : because it seemed that the bearish sentiment was due to satoshi and his 1M coins
[2016-05-05 12:41:50] mrp1nk : we will see
[2016-05-05 12:45:32] tscha : lol this twat
[2016-05-05 12:45:57] tscha : curious about Gavin's response
[2016-05-05 12:46:23] habibi : tscha: actually lets bet if u still wanna :D
[2016-05-05 12:46:34] tscha : j8: well I still have until 1st of June but I gotta admit it doesn't look good
[2016-05-05 12:48:37] j8 : yeah, couldn't look much worse
[2016-05-05 12:50:29] habibi : comment via reddit "I never knew Satoshi was such a Drama Queen! lol"
[2016-05-05 12:50:36] j8 : it's like that guy that would go on all the tv shows and bend spoons with his mind
[2016-05-05 12:50:45] BitMEX_Wally : I would love to double down on my bet, but then this guy is a scammer... who knows what he has up his sleeve
[2016-05-05 12:51:09] j8 : but when they get him in a controlled environment he makes excuses like "i'm just not feeling the energy today"
[2016-05-05 12:53:24] habibi : this is all big bullshit, extraordinary bullshit i would say
[2016-05-05 12:58:50] rapidtrades : this is not wright
[2016-05-05 13:20:41] tscha : I still believe #craigoshi
[2016-05-05 13:22:05] BitMEX_Wally : You want to increase your bet?
[2016-05-05 13:22:14] tscha : Nah, I'm fine
[2016-05-05 13:22:18] tscha : :)
[2016-05-05 13:26:54] habibi : tscha: when did u first get into bitcoin?
[2016-05-05 13:39:49] tscha : habibi: 2008
[2016-05-05 13:40:04] tscha : oops
[2016-05-05 13:40:13] j8 : you mean 2005?
[2016-05-05 13:40:15] habibi : tscha: much before satoshi, nice
[2016-05-05 13:40:25] habibi : i mean cragtoshi
[2016-05-05 13:40:35] tscha : october 2015
[2016-05-05 13:41:04] tscha : or september? dunno, but bought my first (and only) 4 bitcoins for 215€
[2016-05-05 13:46:28] tscha : when did you guys get into bitcoin?
[2016-05-05 13:46:45] habibi : 2013 dec buble
[2016-05-05 13:47:13] j8 : summer 2013
[2016-05-05 13:48:05] j8 : first buys were around $80
[2016-05-05 13:48:41] tscha : anybody in here who got into bitcoin at <$5?
[2016-05-05 13:49:16] tscha : just trying to find satoshi
[2016-05-05 14:23:40] rapidtrades : A. Aplushpolus says we're all satoshis
[2016-05-05 14:51:09] tscha : could very well be that this is the only tv-station that got the story right in the first place: https://i.imgur.com/d4IaUmy.jpg
[2016-05-05 14:52:31] rapidtrades : link SFW?
[2016-05-05 14:52:47] tscha : yeah
[2016-05-05 14:52:57] rapidtrades : j/k don't have a boss
[2016-05-05 14:53:36] tscha : i will never stop laughing about that video
[2016-05-05 14:54:04] tscha : for anyone who hasn't seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2euMNmsb_s
[2016-05-05 14:54:42] tscha : "winning - obviously" hahaha
[2016-05-05 14:55:49] rapidtrades : tscha: did u lose the bet
[2016-05-05 14:56:06] tscha : not yet but it looks that way
[2016-05-05 15:01:35] rapidtrades : he doesn't look honest in his BBC interview
[2016-05-05 15:01:45] rapidtrades : gives me a bit of that slimey wibe tbh
[2016-05-05 15:03:23] tscha : he scammed at least 5 pounds off of Gavin/Matonis/BBC: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4i07s4/the_bbcs_tech_correspondent_gavin_and_matonis/
[2016-05-05 15:04:25] habibi : tscha: yep, mission completed, now he can go all in at 100x bitmex\
[2016-05-05 15:07:11] podizzle3k : 08:37 - mrp1nk: nothing, just awaiting the "not satoshi confirmed" fomo
[2016-05-05 15:07:13] rapidtrades : jesus...what a weirdo
[2016-05-05 15:07:17] podizzle3k : kinda surprised that didnt happen
[2016-05-05 15:07:23] rapidtrades : are u rly....
[2016-05-05 15:07:30] rapidtrades : WHO CARES
[2016-05-05 15:07:41] podizzle3k : obviously people cared when the bbc article came out
[2016-05-05 15:07:59] podizzle3k : but i guess his BS was already priced in the market
[2016-05-05 15:08:09] podizzle3k : since it retraced anyway
[2016-05-05 15:08:25] BitMEX_Sam : Wow that bbc article is gold
[2016-05-05 15:08:59] podizzle3k : it was good enough to drop the price so maybe he had a decent short in
[2016-05-05 15:09:17] podizzle3k : but judging by the mt gox records showing he bought at $1100 it sounds like hes a horrible trader
[2016-05-05 15:10:04] podizzle3k : eth doin a little slow climb today...the ETHXBT hype effect i think
[2016-05-05 15:10:14] habibi : podizzle3k: waaat? :D
[2016-05-05 15:10:31] podizzle3k : yeah he bought 17btc at $1100+ in dec. 2013
[2016-05-05 15:10:53] podizzle3k : and they were still on the exchange when it crashed at $166 haha
[2016-05-05 15:11:00] podizzle3k : so he never cut his losses either
[2016-05-05 15:11:05] habibi : eth doin a little slow climb today...the ETHXBT hype effect i think that deduction :D
[2016-05-05 15:11:08] podizzle3k : oh that
[2016-05-05 15:11:16] podizzle3k : yeah ofc
[2016-05-05 15:11:22] podizzle3k : its all anyone is talking about
[2016-05-05 15:11:29] podizzle3k : vitalik is throwing a party
[2016-05-05 15:11:38] habibi : ah guess it was ironic :)
[2016-05-05 15:11:45] rapidtrades : f*ck vitalik
[2016-05-05 15:11:50] mrp1nk : podizzle3k: me 2. there were some larger buys on finex, but not full fomo yet. anyway i remain bullish on this news.
[2016-05-05 15:12:07] podizzle3k : id give up hope on that one
[2016-05-05 15:12:25] podizzle3k : not saying its gonna crash but any kind of reactionary price rise is out of the question
[2016-05-05 15:12:34] podizzle3k : everyone knows by this point
[2016-05-05 15:28:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETH7D`: Buy 500 @ 0.02134
[2016-05-05 15:30:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETH7D`: Buy 795 @ 0.02147
[2016-05-05 15:40:46] ayy_lmao : lmao
[2016-05-05 15:48:52] tscha : interesting interview with gavin about wright (that was before the 'i'm sorry' announcement though) http://qz.com/675830/two-early-bitcoin-developers-who-worked-directly-with-satoshi-nakamoto-weigh-in-on-his-real-identity/
[2016-05-05 16:02:52] rapidtrades : I don’t think it’s Gavin. I don’t think it’s Nick [Szabo, another close collaborator of Nakamoto’s]. Those are the two popular choices. I don’t think it’s me, but I’m not sure.
[2016-05-05 16:03:02] rapidtrades : wtf Garzik outing himself
[2016-05-05 16:04:09] rapidtrades : Jeff Garzik created bitcoin, you can quote me on that
[2016-05-05 16:05:56] rapidtrades : ''Jeff Garzik created bitcoin'' rapidtrades 2016
[2016-05-05 16:07:21] BitMEX_Sam : `"Jeff Garzik created bitcoin" rapidtrades 2016` rapidtrades 2016
[2016-05-05 16:12:18] sq : hi, do you have an api i can use to get historical data? tks
[2016-05-05 16:12:36] sq : also, whats the trading costs/fees?
[2016-05-05 16:12:57] BitMEX_Sam : sq: See https://www.bitmex.com/app/apiOverview for the API
[2016-05-05 16:13:03] BitMEX_Sam : And https://www.bitmex.com/app/fees for fees
[2016-05-05 16:13:07] sq : tks vm
[2016-05-05 17:08:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETH7D`: Buy 60 @ 0.02241
[2016-05-05 18:47:00] mrp1nk : podizzle3k: so far price is moving up nicely. i think it needs some time until ppl realize and digest what is going on. i feel very comfy in my long position
[2016-05-05 18:47:46] podizzle3k : bitcoin traders do not take time to realize and digest
[2016-05-05 18:47:54] podizzle3k : when it forked in 2013 it dumped within seconds
[2016-05-05 18:48:06] podizzle3k : when silk road was busted it dumped within seconds
[2016-05-05 18:49:53] podizzle3k : i think okcoin whales gonna flash crash it to cash out on some shorts
[2016-05-05 18:50:00] podizzle3k : but overall it will go up until halving
[2016-05-05 18:51:06] podizzle3k : even a tiny dump would start a margin call cascade between okcoin and bitfinex everyone and their mom is in a long position
[2016-05-05 18:51:51] mrp1nk : yeah, thats also true
[2016-05-05 18:52:27] podizzle3k : either they flash crash it tonight or maybe run it up to $470 first then crash it back to 450
[2016-05-05 18:53:16] mrp1nk : could happen, sure
[2016-05-05 18:53:17] podizzle3k : 3rd option would be a slow and steady pump to around 500
[2016-05-05 18:53:25] podizzle3k : i bet thats the one youre lookin for
[2016-05-05 18:54:06] mrp1nk : #MyStopsAreReady :-)
[2016-05-05 18:54:24] podizzle3k : haha youre all set then
[2016-05-05 18:54:58] rapidtrades : reading this chat gives me cancer
[2016-05-05 18:55:23] mrp1nk : rapidtrades: why
[2016-05-05 18:56:00] rapidtrades : bunch of tools talking in a matter of fact manner ''X will happen at this point''
[2016-05-05 18:56:08] rapidtrades : u don't know shit, sit down and shut up
[2016-05-05 18:56:22] podizzle3k : how about i smack the shit out you little boy
[2016-05-05 18:56:27] podizzle3k : *thwack*
[2016-05-05 18:56:40] rapidtrades : how about u show some humility ffs
[2016-05-05 18:56:54] podizzle3k : go arbitrage a few satoshis and reassess your life
[2016-05-05 18:57:14] podizzle3k : humiity? i gave possible options that i see as possibilities
[2016-05-05 18:57:32] podizzle3k : youre making it sound like i am declaring precisely what will happen like some overlord
[2016-05-05 18:57:52] rapidtrades : oh...i must've misread that...sorry :)
[2016-05-05 18:58:12] podizzle3k : its all good i cant hate you
[2016-05-05 18:58:15] podizzle3k : sleger on the other hand......
[2016-05-05 18:58:52] podizzle3k : btw where is this bitmex rich list i seen on twitter
[2016-05-05 19:04:18] rapidtrades : ready for the pump..already rolled over my futures
[2016-05-05 19:04:44] rapidtrades : that was too easy to do btw plus i did it for a credit....can't be good :(
[2016-05-05 19:05:14] BitMEX_Sam : https://www.bitmex.com/app/leaderboard
[2016-05-05 19:06:08] podizzle3k : can i choose another name other than Almond-Cookie-Soarer
[2016-05-05 19:07:06] BitMEX_Sam : :) You can claim a position in your preferences page
[2016-05-05 19:07:26] BitMEX_Sam : cengel and micmix already did.
[2016-05-05 19:07:33] podizzle3k : i see.
[2016-05-05 19:09:37] podizzle3k : roi = wallet balance / (deposited - withdrawn) * 100
[2016-05-05 19:09:45] podizzle3k : somethin like that iguess
[2016-05-05 19:10:34] podizzle3k : if anyone wants a good depth chart for poloniex ETH https://dc-charts.com/depth_eth.php?ex=16&cu=0
[2016-05-05 19:17:17] podizzle3k : too bad it doesnt dynamically update
[2016-05-05 19:22:51] BitMEX_Sam : podizzle3k: Yeah, pretty close: notional is `wallet.amount - (wallet.deposited - wallet.withdrawn)`
[2016-05-05 19:23:08] BitMEX_Sam : ROE is `notional / wallet.deposited`
[2016-05-05 19:25:14] podizzle3k : cool im a bit of a programmer myself
[2016-05-05 19:25:23] podizzle3k : made a pretty wicked nick completer in mirc script
[2016-05-05 19:36:59] dorothy490 : guys I think I found one helpful thing instead of liquidation use market stop orders
[2016-05-05 19:38:52] tscha : i made a python script that checks satoshis address on outgoing transactions and drops coins in case