This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2016-01-18 12:27:15] chromaticcr : @jung1 perhaps this series? https://blog.bitmex.com/bitcoin-futures-basis-trading-lesson-1/
[2016-01-18 13:39:32] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 8 @ 384.19
[2016-01-18 14:38:11] rapidtrades : how's it going y'alls
[2016-01-18 14:42:30] thehawthorne : positive
[2016-01-18 14:44:56] rapidtrades : outstanding
[2016-01-18 14:55:09] rapidtrades : https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/41hug9/holy_hash_rate_increase_hit_1115_phs/
[2016-01-18 15:22:15] Akaiapc40 : Hi all
[2016-01-18 15:47:15] sleger : Russia banning bitcoin again
[2016-01-18 15:55:44] laisee : heh. thats a 3$ bump.
[2016-01-18 16:07:32] Akaiapc40 : rapidtrades: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZA4sdoWsAIidC5.png:large
[2016-01-18 16:27:59] jung1 : sleger: link?
[2016-01-18 16:28:50] sleger : jung1: hey you want to make that bet ? you said 350 before 400 yesterday
[2016-01-18 16:28:57] sleger : I called you on it and offered a bet
[2016-01-18 16:29:07] sleger : but you disappeared
[2016-01-18 16:29:13] jung1 : oh
[2016-01-18 16:29:16] jung1 : well
[2016-01-18 16:29:28] jung1 : changed my mind
[2016-01-18 16:29:48] sleger : for the link, try coindesk.com ?
[2016-01-18 16:52:37] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 25 @ 386.05
[2016-01-18 17:11:10] djuan : i know some of you don't like technical analysis. so I'm not going to point out the inverted head and shoulders pattern there
[2016-01-18 17:11:47] rapidtrades : f*ck H&S man
[2016-01-18 17:17:41] djuan : its fuck
[2016-01-18 17:21:31] Akaiapc40 : djuan: why man....that's can help ;)
[2016-01-18 17:22:24] djuan : lol
[2016-01-18 17:23:19] djuan : Akaiapc40: i reckon its going up to 398 within the next 3 hours. you got any ideas?
[2016-01-18 17:28:13] Akaiapc40 : looking some graphs, for me is stable atm....don't think will hit 398 as soon as you said
[2016-01-18 17:30:55] jung1 : but we can try 390
[2016-01-18 17:31:56] Akaiapc40 : jung1: reasonable
[2016-01-18 17:32:32] jung1 : I say that because Im long
[2016-01-18 17:34:53] Akaiapc40 : lol i'm short
[2016-01-18 17:35:38] djuan : ha ha @jung1 don't give up. I'm long to 389 then short from there. maybe it won't happen as quick as i said. this is the first time i played eyes on the chart all day. I've been keeping an eye on oil all day between work
[2016-01-18 17:38:28] djuan : laid
[2016-01-18 17:38:55] jung1 : yeah Im long since 82
[2016-01-18 17:41:49] sleger : but yesterday you were ready to short ?
[2016-01-18 17:45:22] jung1 : I were ready to make money
[2016-01-18 17:45:50] jung1 : I try to play with trend
[2016-01-18 17:46:14] jung1 : so my decisions depends on market
[2016-01-18 17:46:26] jung1 : and bitmex trollbox as well
[2016-01-18 17:54:22] djuan : jung1: i think its going to drop now actually
[2016-01-18 18:02:24] thehawthorne : https://www.coinigy.com/s/i/569d24df/ now look at that nice little fella
[2016-01-18 18:02:45] thehawthorne : same for eth futures
[2016-01-18 18:06:27] jung1 : i have something for you guys
[2016-01-18 18:06:28] jung1 : http://www.cabafx.com/trading-ebooks-collection/newpdf/
[2016-01-18 18:08:06] jung1 : thehawthorne: nice
[2016-01-18 18:08:22] djuan : thehawthorne: trading like a pro
[2016-01-18 18:08:50] Akaiapc40 : jung1: wow
[2016-01-18 18:08:53] Akaiapc40 : thanksù
[2016-01-18 18:09:04] thehawthorne : not my trade, i bought at 0.0023
[2016-01-18 18:09:34] jung1 : marign on altcoins is crazy
[2016-01-18 18:09:38] jung1 : I play some on poli
[2016-01-18 18:09:41] jung1 : polo
[2016-01-18 18:09:56] thehawthorne : polo only for margin funding with me
[2016-01-18 18:09:56] djuan : jung1: wow thanks man. thats a nice little goldmine of information for newbs
[2016-01-18 18:10:02] thehawthorne : they give crazy interest rates
[2016-01-18 18:10:09] thehawthorne : 0.178% / 60 days
[2016-01-18 18:11:14] jung1 : djuan: @Akaiapc40 yeah its great one
[2016-01-18 18:11:50] jung1 : thehawthorne: true but its only exchange with quite nice volume with severa altcoins on margin
[2016-01-18 18:12:12] djuan : thanks man. its exactly what i needed. I've book marked it. i need to school myself properly.
[2016-01-18 18:12:31] jung1 : de nada
[2016-01-18 18:12:43] jung1 : try babypips as well
[2016-01-18 18:13:21] djuan : yeah i did that. and i also found a guy on youtube giving free course. samuel morton
[2016-01-18 18:13:59] djuan : he is very good and calm in the way he explains it.
[2016-01-18 18:15:23] jung1 : thehawthorne: you follow some guys ora blogs about altcoin trading or you made own research? where you play eth?
[2016-01-18 18:18:54] Akaiapc40 : i usually use bittrex
[2016-01-18 18:19:08] Akaiapc40 : with my own research
[2016-01-18 18:22:00] jung1 : whats your bet on ltc?
[2016-01-18 18:22:33] sleger : disappear slowly
[2016-01-18 18:22:44] jung1 : you think so?
[2016-01-18 18:23:10] jung1 : I think its quite possible to follow bitcoin when another pump comes
[2016-01-18 18:23:30] sleger : i said slowly
[2016-01-18 18:23:35] sleger : Short ltcbtc is a good bet
[2016-01-18 18:23:36] jung1 : like in '14 when it goes up to $40
[2016-01-18 18:24:41] jung1 : interesting is that price would not fall after confirm by cryptsy that someone stole 300k ltc
[2016-01-18 18:26:06] habibi : jung1: who cares now.. that was looong time ago
[2016-01-18 18:26:26] Akaiapc40 : jung1: are you on twit?
[2016-01-18 18:27:07] jung1 : no
[2016-01-18 18:31:53] Akaiapc40 : short closed
[2016-01-18 18:32:17] Akaiapc40 : so nice to make trading this days
[2016-01-18 18:32:40] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 520 @ 385.28
[2016-01-18 18:32:41] jung1 : yeah
[2016-01-18 18:32:56] jung1 : and with new bitmex features will be even better
[2016-01-18 18:34:10] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 379 @ 385.12
[2016-01-18 18:54:27] blackwhite : what are the new features?
[2016-01-18 18:57:54] sleger : black and white GUI
[2016-01-18 18:58:16] thehawthorne : jung1: bittrex. follow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdDS3OsQi-E
[2016-01-18 19:04:08] jung1 : blackwhite: dynamic stop orders, new kinds of contracts
[2016-01-18 19:04:52] jung1 : and 'D'OH" sound from simpsons when someone get liquidation
[2016-01-18 19:18:07] gouda : can we just dump this back to 350 already
[2016-01-18 19:18:20] gouda : tired of this sidways crap
[2016-01-18 19:18:26] gouda : lets just go there like we all know it is
[2016-01-18 19:18:31] gouda : then go up
[2016-01-18 19:24:12] gouda : k thanks
[2016-01-18 19:24:15] gouda : :D
[2016-01-18 19:24:32] djuan : no problem
[2016-01-18 19:24:45] djuan : lets dump it right now. ready?
[2016-01-18 19:24:46] djuan : 1
[2016-01-18 19:24:47] djuan : 2
[2016-01-18 19:24:47] djuan : 3
[2016-01-18 19:24:50] djuan : go
[2016-01-18 19:27:29] djuan : where can i get a good oil chart? plus500 charts are crap. tradingview want me to pay monthly before i can view their chart.
[2016-01-18 19:38:17] djuan : does M16 take orders from fair price or last price?
[2016-01-18 19:40:01] BitMEX_Sam : djuan: All XBT contracts use fair price
[2016-01-18 19:40:32] djuan : I've tried to get my order filled for a while now @BitMEX_Sam
[2016-01-18 19:40:54] djuan : the fair price matches my order but nothing happens
[2016-01-18 19:41:04] sleger : that makes sense
[2016-01-18 19:41:16] sleger : if you dont want to wait hit the ask if you buy
[2016-01-18 19:41:44] BitMEX_Sam : M16 doesn't move that fast, you have to wait for someone to hit your order if you want to make
[2016-01-18 19:41:50] djuan : ask if you buy?
[2016-01-18 19:41:59] sleger : yes
[2016-01-18 19:42:02] BitMEX_Sam : He's saying that if you want to buy now, raise your price so you hit the ask side of the book
[2016-01-18 19:42:16] sleger : buy at 538, or sell at 537
[2016-01-18 19:42:19] Akaiapc40 : the fair price can pass your limit price, but if is not offer/demand nothign happen
[2016-01-18 19:42:58] djuan : ah ok. thanks guys
[2016-01-18 19:43:01] BitMEX_Sam : Fair price is used only for margin calculations, it doesn't mean anything regarding whether or not you will be filled.
[2016-01-18 19:43:04] djuan : order filled
[2016-01-18 19:43:06] BitMEX_Sam : :)
[2016-01-18 19:43:48] Akaiapc40 : nice
[2016-01-18 19:44:02] sleger : alright now trade 100btc, not 1
[2016-01-18 19:44:34] djuan : sure let me check my wallet
[2016-01-18 19:45:11] djuan : fresh out of 100s damn
[2016-01-18 19:47:44] justinlooking : sleger one does not hit offers. i expected better from you
[2016-01-18 19:48:31] sleger : well i was the offer so ...
[2016-01-18 19:52:12] justinlooking : i am just teasing :P
[2016-01-18 19:52:25] justinlooking : but by convention, offers are "lifted" and bids are "hit".
[2016-01-18 19:59:27] djuan : aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnndddddddddd ... DUMP!!
[2016-01-18 20:00:58] Akaiapc40 : coming
[2016-01-18 20:08:29] laisee : djuan: > maybe a iittle louder?
[2016-01-18 20:08:52] djuan : ahem
[2016-01-18 20:09:04] djuan : NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!
[2016-01-18 20:10:01] djuan : no wait. not yet. I'm waiting for a deposit
[2016-01-18 20:10:49] djuan : dude. i have two confirmations on bread but no xbt in bitmex?!
[2016-01-18 20:14:55] djuan : dump?
[2016-01-18 20:15:33] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 25 @ 384.81
[2016-01-18 20:16:05] djuan : ?
[2016-01-18 20:16:27] djuan : ?
[2016-01-18 20:20:35] djuan : this is surprising? why no dumpy?
[2016-01-18 20:24:22] sleger : why dymp ?
[2016-01-18 20:26:03] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 3000 @ 384.54
[2016-01-18 20:26:57] djuan : sleger: why not?
[2016-01-18 20:27:13] sleger : djuan: you're the one who started talking about one, I asked why
[2016-01-18 20:27:33] sleger : I do not have an opinion about dump or not but you seem to have one so my question is legitimate, yours isnt
[2016-01-18 20:28:03] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 2198 @ 384.07
[2016-01-18 20:29:03] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 1319 @ 383.66
[2016-01-18 20:33:28] djuan : because mama needs a new pair of shoes.
[2016-01-18 20:33:32] macios15 : bitmex 4$ down, china 6 cny
[2016-01-18 20:34:14] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 3 @ 382.84 :punch: :whale:
[2016-01-18 20:53:09] rapidtrades : macios15: talking bout China is considered bad form around here
[2016-01-18 20:53:31] kogroken : why?
[2016-01-18 21:12:45] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 1260 @ 381.23
[2016-01-18 21:18:27] gouda : dump it to 350 and create a double bottom
[2016-01-18 21:18:33] gouda : or break 400 already
[2016-01-18 21:18:51] gouda : the longer we can't break 390 and stay the better chances of 350 test coming
[2016-01-18 21:19:19] djuan : this battle is fierce
[2016-01-18 21:19:54] gouda : do it now
[2016-01-18 21:19:58] gouda : get to the chopper
[2016-01-18 21:20:11] macios15 : pong now
[2016-01-18 21:22:46] djuan : but its a downward battle. unless a hero comes along with the strength to carry on
[2016-01-18 21:23:12] Akaiapc40 : downtrend for me
[2016-01-18 21:35:21] macios15 : up we go
[2016-01-18 21:35:27] habibi : macios15: wheere?
[2016-01-18 21:36:23] macios15 : habibi: u will see, i mean bitmex it went too much down
[2016-01-18 21:36:51] macios15 : habibi: negativ
[2016-01-18 21:37:05] habibi : in case we go futher down we will see more negativ
[2016-01-18 21:37:37] sleger : "more negativ " ?
[2016-01-18 21:37:51] habibi : negative premium
[2016-01-18 21:37:55] sleger : oh ok
[2016-01-18 21:41:58] tscha : BitMEX_Sam: heyho. you mentioned bulk placement/amend is coming soon™, wally said it's not exposed on testnet api yet. can we expect it to hit live in recent future (<5 weeks)? cause then I will wait with restructuring code/logic, otherwise twice the work.
[2016-01-18 21:43:05] BitMEX_Sam : tscha: Yeah, it should hit testnet in a few days and live next week most likely
[2016-01-18 21:43:21] tscha : BitMEX_Sam: perfect! thanks 4 info.
[2016-01-18 22:14:43] rapidtrades : GUYS
[2016-01-18 22:14:52] rapidtrades : NOTHING IS GOING ON
[2016-01-18 22:16:21] sleger : so why shouting ?
[2016-01-18 22:16:40] rapidtrades : KEEPING THE HYPE GOING ON MAN
[2016-01-18 22:16:47] rapidtrades : DON'T WANT TO LET YOUR GUARD DOWN
[2016-01-18 22:16:54] rapidtrades : THAT'S WHEN YOU GET F*CKE
[2016-01-18 22:17:00] rapidtrades : *D
[2016-01-18 22:17:43] Akaiapc40 : :O
[2016-01-18 22:38:43] jung1 : YEAH BITCOIN IS DEAD
[2016-01-18 22:38:47] jung1 : 89 times
[2016-01-18 22:46:07] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 3 @ 385.93 :punch: :whale:
[2016-01-18 22:50:49] jung1 : todays trading is so much fun
[2016-01-18 23:10:55] Akaiapc40 : is it when you are in profit
[2016-01-18 23:11:00] Akaiapc40 : lol
[2016-01-18 23:12:14] jung1 : loses are like fuel for profits
[2016-01-18 23:12:20] jung1 : but yeah
[2016-01-18 23:12:32] jung1 : quite good trading for me in last days
[2016-01-18 23:12:40] jung1 : hearn is cool guy
[2016-01-18 23:48:29] justinlooking : ping
[2016-01-18 23:48:38] justinlooking : new crypto trader digest yay
[2016-01-18 23:52:19] rapidtrades : I don't think Hearn article tanked the price tbh...it was long time coming and seems like a technical break more then anything
[2016-01-18 23:52:50] rapidtrades : If I have to pick news, I would blame cryptsy instead
[2016-01-18 23:58:37] jung1 : imo it was hearn. Last months a lot of new investors came into bitcoin ecosystem
[2016-01-18 23:58:38] tscha : did the new york times write about cryptsy or mike hearn?
[2016-01-18 23:58:44] habibi : i wouldnt agree with you, but dont have energy to discuss
[2016-01-18 23:59:14] jung1 : and suddenly core developer says that bitcoin will fail and he quit
[2016-01-18 23:59:22] rapidtrades : jung1: ''investors''
[2016-01-18 23:59:54] jung1 : new blood
[2016-01-18 23:59:54] jung1 : you know what i mean
[2016-01-19 00:00:12] habibi : rapidtrades: who cares about 10k coins stolen from cryptsy that werent even sold since it happens, still on the same address.
[2016-01-19 00:02:39] jung1 : https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=bitcoin&date=today%201-m&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT-1
[2016-01-19 00:03:27] jung1 : its same as some ceo will quit and company shares will fall
[2016-01-19 00:03:29] Akaiapc40 : jung1: is dead....
[2016-01-19 00:03:33] tscha : justinlooking: the part about pboc is well written
[2016-01-19 00:04:52] rapidtrades : right...but the problem is the usd/cnh is at 6/58 today vs 6.76 two weeks
[2016-01-19 00:04:59] rapidtrades : *ago
[2016-01-19 00:05:34] rapidtrades : so his devaluation premise it's proven wrong, at least for the next few months
[2016-01-19 00:05:38] jung1 : also true
[2016-01-19 00:06:14] jung1 : but in that case hearn was also right that china basicly own bitcoin
[2016-01-19 00:06:44] rapidtrades : seems like the PBOC wants some stability atm
[2016-01-19 00:09:43] rapidtrades : long-term the Yuan will head lower but it will be very hard to catch that move with bitcoin, which has a volatility much higher then USD for example
[2016-01-19 00:11:25] MrJ1m : im still expecting some move from the pboc
[2016-01-19 00:11:32] MrJ1m : some kind of news
[2016-01-19 00:12:10] MrJ1m : not now
[2016-01-19 00:12:28] rapidtrades : some of Aurthur pairing ideas may make money (buy on CNY sites sell on USD) but it comes down to the cost...what if u spend half a year or more waiting for a potential 10% devaluation?
[2016-01-19 00:12:35] MrJ1m : but slow deval seems too obvious
[2016-01-19 00:13:08] rapidtrades : they can't afford any devaluation atm,,,it causes panic all around, not just in China....its terrible for business
[2016-01-19 00:13:15] MrJ1m : and they need to stop the capital outflow, a lil bit. + they still indebted themselves in many ways i think
[2016-01-19 00:13:38] MrJ1m : well starting from a new low can't be that bad, from a statist point of view i mean
[2016-01-19 00:13:55] rapidtrades : MrJ1m: what do u mean new low
[2016-01-19 00:13:58] MrJ1m : cause the people can now expect the money to go only one way
[2016-01-19 00:14:00] MrJ1m : up
[2016-01-19 00:14:08] rapidtrades : in usd/cnh?
[2016-01-19 00:14:12] MrJ1m : yup
[2016-01-19 00:14:14] MrJ1m : sorry
[2016-01-19 00:14:42] rapidtrades : ah ok...idk seems like a risk they don't want to take atm
[2016-01-19 00:14:50] MrJ1m : like some kind of surprise deval, in one move, to set things straight
[2016-01-19 00:15:13] MrJ1m : which would set up the market for good, cause atm its causing them more harm than good
[2016-01-19 00:15:21] rapidtrades : at some point they will have to devalue or lose all their reserves but we're in the middle of a large shitstorm atm
[2016-01-19 00:15:31] MrJ1m : all tht expectation of deval, following their recent move of unpegging
[2016-01-19 00:15:39] MrJ1m : ye
[2016-01-19 00:15:59] MrJ1m : but as it is rn, i believe theyre loosing at this game
[2016-01-19 00:16:48] MrJ1m : again this is from a purely econ control point of view, they would gain from doing it in one time, shook things up a bit and setting things straight, instead of the drama that has been going on
[2016-01-19 00:16:58] rapidtrades : it's a lose lose either way but acting now will just add to the panic
[2016-01-19 00:17:23] MrJ1m : depends, if the panic is being fueled by uncertainty and missinformations
[2016-01-19 00:17:35] rapidtrades : it's not...China's shit
[2016-01-19 00:17:40] MrJ1m : haha true
[2016-01-19 00:18:06] MrJ1m : but in the short term only, contrary to western
[2016-01-19 00:18:26] MrJ1m : long term theyre golden, and they know it
[2016-01-19 00:18:49] rapidtrades : how do u figure
[2016-01-19 00:18:55] MrJ1m : i mean
[2016-01-19 00:19:07] MrJ1m : finest example of econ growth
[2016-01-19 00:19:17] MrJ1m : in 40 years
[2016-01-19 00:19:20] MrJ1m : its insane
[2016-01-19 00:19:25] MrJ1m : 1.3B
[2016-01-19 00:19:34] MrJ1m : soon middle class big af
[2016-01-19 00:19:49] MrJ1m : bubble need to burst but, they are on a roll
[2016-01-19 00:21:17] rapidtrades : alright but their economy is half-commie...there are large dislocations of capital...losing state enterprises and large unprofitable infrastructure projects
[2016-01-19 00:21:58] rapidtrades : it may never recover tbh...lot of ppl in China ''bought'' the idea of a mixed economy as superior
[2016-01-19 00:22:10] MrJ1m : true true, but i am hearing that they dream of what HK as become
[2016-01-19 00:22:21] rapidtrades : it will be hard to pull off needed reforms
[2016-01-19 00:22:58] MrJ1m : they might be commies, but im sure they are not dumb, and from what we've seen during the last several decade, they want to make money
[2016-01-19 00:23:24] MrJ1m : ofc, central party and all
[2016-01-19 00:24:38] MrJ1m : only time will tell :)
[2016-01-19 00:25:05] rapidtrades : MrJ1m: yeah :)
[2016-01-19 00:25:27] MrJ1m : i still have a bet on them devaluating more ^^ am also trying to convince myself it migh still go on lol
[2016-01-19 00:25:47] MrJ1m : but it seems very plausible cause, as you said, they will have to do it
[2016-01-19 00:25:50] MrJ1m : eventually
[2016-01-19 00:26:18] rapidtrades : yeah in the next year 5-10% seems likely
[2016-01-19 00:27:02] MrJ1m : ye, 10 at least imo
[2016-01-19 00:27:18] MrJ1m : gonna be interesting
[2016-01-19 00:28:14] rapidtrades : personally I would wait a for break higher in usd/cnh instead of buying the lows...but still not convinced that some bitcoin play will be optimal
[2016-01-19 00:28:45] MrJ1m : i'd rather buy a bit low ^^
[2016-01-19 00:28:49] MrJ1m : btc is tricky atm
[2016-01-19 00:29:03] rapidtrades : also there is a non-zero risk that if a lot of ppl use bitcoin to play devaluation, China will crack down on it
[2016-01-19 00:29:14] MrJ1m : but i still bought some spot this morning
[2016-01-19 00:29:36] MrJ1m : ye but i am not sure how that would be done
[2016-01-19 00:29:41] rapidtrades : so u kinda have to weight that risk with the small potential gain on devaluation
[2016-01-19 00:30:31] MrJ1m : yes, but im sure gold would be much more impacted
[2016-01-19 00:31:35] MrJ1m : im not so worried of them cracking down on btc
[2016-01-19 00:31:39] rapidtrades : I'm still thinking how to play that...depending on rollover rates, a simple long in forex may be better
[2016-01-19 00:31:52] MrJ1m : ye
[2016-01-19 00:32:28] jung1 : btw guys have you played on simplefx? they have x500 on btc
[2016-01-19 00:32:36] rapidtrades : then u avoid the counter-party and regulatory crackdown risk
[2016-01-19 00:32:51] MrJ1m : short btc / long eth was golden recently
[2016-01-19 00:33:18] rapidtrades : jung1: no it doesn't seem like a reputable broker tbh
[2016-01-19 00:33:31] MrJ1m : what are u guys using?
[2016-01-19 00:33:41] rapidtrades : no comment :)
[2016-01-19 00:34:15] MrJ1m : ? which broker i mean
[2016-01-19 00:34:23] MrJ1m : lol
[2016-01-19 00:35:47] rapidtrades : I've been demoing the usd/cnh on oanda...my other brokers don't offer this pair for live trading
[2016-01-19 00:36:56] rapidtrades : rollover rates will prolly be the biggest cost of this trade
[2016-01-19 00:40:16] MrJ1m : ye true
[2016-01-19 00:42:33] MrJ1m : depends on how fast its goes
[2016-01-19 00:44:21] rapidtrades : http://www.myfxbook.com/forex-broker-swaps this may be helpful but swaps vary widely and I've found that the rates displayed are not always accurate
[2016-01-19 00:47:17] rapidtrades : next PBOC fixing in 28 mins
[2016-01-19 01:12:41] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 1583 @ 382.58
[2016-01-19 01:25:02] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 800 @ 381.67
[2016-01-19 01:27:12] tscha : Interesting that the bitmex price is leading spot
[2016-01-19 01:33:32] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 9000 @ 380.91
[2016-01-19 01:34:32] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT7D`: Sell 80 @ 380.42
[2016-01-19 01:34:37] tscha : really interesting, suddenly there was a $3 premium out of nowhere and 5 minutes later finex crashes
[2016-01-19 01:34:52] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT7D`: Sell 972 @ 380.30
[2016-01-19 01:35:11] Demous : been happening all day
[2016-01-19 01:35:11] tscha : neg premium*
[2016-01-19 01:35:38] tscha : pretty fishy
[2016-01-19 01:41:46] tscha : market was rockstable, then at 01:09 UTC someone started selling 24H like crazy ... 1 minute later the big drop started at finex
[2016-01-19 01:47:57] lockhedge : this just means XBT24H is the leading instrument now ;)
[2016-01-19 02:15:15] rapidtrades : tscha: what's so intersting about it
[2016-01-19 02:18:33] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 2000 @ 383.40
[2016-01-19 02:18:39] lockhedge : informed trading -> order flow toxicity -> adverse selection -> market makers lose money
[2016-01-19 02:20:42] tscha : this doesn't happen very often, but I will add some code to prevent this in the future
[2016-01-19 02:21:07] gaoMex : How does market makers earn money?
[2016-01-19 02:21:58] tscha : market makers (or anybody else who places orders) get trading commission
[2016-01-19 02:22:07] tscha : https://www.bitmex.com/app/fees
[2016-01-19 02:22:30] sleger : thats not how they make money though
[2016-01-19 02:22:41] tscha : that + the spread
[2016-01-19 02:23:09] tscha : mostly commissions though since takers also move the market
[2016-01-19 02:23:12] sleger : the spread, that rebate is included in the spread
[2016-01-19 02:23:24] sleger : nah that last comment is just wrong
[2016-01-19 02:23:36] sleger : how do mm make money on other exchanges with no rebate then ?
[2016-01-19 02:24:23] tscha : the spread obviously
[2016-01-19 02:24:29] lockhedge : 30% spread 20% rebates/fees 50% people who trade at irrational prices (FOMO et al.)
[2016-01-19 02:24:29] tscha : which will be larger then
[2016-01-19 02:24:35] gaoMex : "the spread" means when mm sell at BitMEX, mm buys on another exchange at the same time?
[2016-01-19 02:24:44] sleger : no
[2016-01-19 02:24:50] lockhedge : gaoMex: no that's arbitrage
[2016-01-19 02:24:59] sleger : it means the difference between green and red prices
[2016-01-19 02:25:04] lockhedge : gaoMex: it's ask price - bid price
[2016-01-19 02:25:12] gaoMex : hedging rather
[2016-01-19 02:25:55] gaoMex : I'm curious about the process.
[2016-01-19 02:26:16] tscha : gaoMex: to answer your question: mm's on bitmex make most with commissions now since rebate was added and spread decreased
[2016-01-19 02:26:31] sleger : that's wrong again
[2016-01-19 02:26:49] sleger : they make most with the spread and rebate helps.
[2016-01-19 02:26:50] tscha : god this guy... really waiting for an /ignore function
[2016-01-19 02:27:01] sleger : then dont say stupid things
[2016-01-19 02:27:10] tscha : stop trying to correct people when you have no clue
[2016-01-19 02:27:12] sleger : you're not really a mm anyways so what do you know
[2016-01-19 02:27:39] gaoMex : If u are the MM, someone at BitMex buys your offer, what happen next?
[2016-01-19 02:28:26] sleger : tscha: the clue I have is that I do around 10% of the volume every day
[2016-01-19 02:28:49] gaoMex : If you do nothing, then your BTC holding reduces.
[2016-01-19 02:28:56] sleger : let's say 5-10% depending on days
[2016-01-19 02:29:11] tscha : sleger: how much are you making commissions daily in btc value? and what is your net profit daily?
[2016-01-19 02:29:11] gaoMex : If price rises, obviously, MM will lose out
[2016-01-19 02:29:37] sleger : tscha: I'd rather keep reading your clueless comments than teaching you
[2016-01-19 02:30:05] sleger : NEt profit is obviously none of your business, commissions I make around 0, because my bot also takes sometimes
[2016-01-19 02:30:56] gaoMex : sleger: @tscha I suggest we understand the process of mm before starting an argument
[2016-01-19 02:31:06] zanza : fellas! lets get along
[2016-01-19 02:31:13] zanza : we are on the same side here
[2016-01-19 02:31:42] sleger : gaoMex: well, I understand it, I dont know why you would assume otherwise, since I just said my bot was doing a decent % of the daily volume
[2016-01-19 02:32:18] tscha : sleger: guess what einstein, if you do lots of takers its obvious you have low commissions
[2016-01-19 02:32:22] gaoMex : sleger: great! so what happens when someone buy a mm offer?
[2016-01-19 02:32:41] gaoMex : mm does nothing or hedge on another exchange?
[2016-01-19 02:32:52] lockhedge : gaoMex: market makers update prices very frequently and process information very fast, human information processing has a hard limit of about 0.8 seconds, a bot knows much faster when prices are rising
[2016-01-19 02:32:54] sleger : gaoMex: they do whatever they want, depends on their model
[2016-01-19 02:33:11] gouda : what dot do you guy use?
[2016-01-19 02:33:11] sleger : tscha: thanks for stating the obvious
[2016-01-19 02:33:18] gouda : b0t*
[2016-01-19 02:34:09] sleger : gouda: I call mine tschaKiller, but you can give it any name really
[2016-01-19 02:34:32] gaoMex : lockhedge: yes. But the question remains, what does mm do when someone buy/sell into their bid/offer?
[2016-01-19 02:34:50] gaoMex : Do nothing or hedge or another exchange?
[2016-01-19 02:34:53] tscha : sleger: you say that marketmakers don't make much with commissions and follow this up with an example of your bot that takes a lot. slegerlogic™
[2016-01-19 02:35:56] sleger : rebate is 0.02%, that's 0.1 in price it's not nothing but not the bulk
[2016-01-19 02:36:04] sleger : *0.025
[2016-01-19 02:36:06] gouda : LOL
[2016-01-19 02:36:12] tscha : not the bulk **for you**
[2016-01-19 02:36:15] gouda : did you create your own bot or you running something hasbot?
[2016-01-19 02:36:23] micmix : ok, I was interested and did a quick check. Only 5-15% of my bot's profits come from commissions. It depends on the day, sometimes it's more
[2016-01-19 02:36:29] rapidtrades : zanza: how are we on the same side? I'm short while most here are still long
[2016-01-19 02:36:33] sleger : any serious mm will have his own
[2016-01-19 02:36:44] sleger : micmix: of course
[2016-01-19 02:36:44] lockhedge : gaoMex: depends on the defintion of "market making" i'd say the more a liquidity provider is hedging his positions, the more likely it's an arbitrage strategy not a market making strategy
[2016-01-19 02:36:50] gouda : sooo how serious mm are you sleger?
[2016-01-19 02:37:01] sleger : tscha talks but isnt really running one
[2016-01-19 02:37:19] tscha : it depends on the logic. the more aggressive you quote, the less you make in spread
[2016-01-19 02:38:05] gaoMex : tscha: but the spread matters only if you arbitrage right?
[2016-01-19 02:38:07] tscha : it's different for everyone, but comments like "nope, you are wrong" are just not very constructive
[2016-01-19 02:38:26] gouda : you need to comment those out then
[2016-01-19 02:38:31] lockhedge : tscha: yes, but it's as well the capital turn-over rate that counts (spread*turnover)
[2016-01-19 02:38:32] micmix : IDK, I consider my bot aggressive, it quotes top of the book 90% of time
[2016-01-19 02:38:36] tscha : gaoMex: as a mm, you don't arbitrage. you just quote offers and bids at the same time
[2016-01-19 02:39:10] sleger : tscha: finish writing your bot, run it, make 10 days of profits every day, then share your stats instead of pretending to know and trying to contradict the ones who actually do it and know better
[2016-01-19 02:39:46] micmix : lockhedge: most MMs do some kind of hedging to reduce risks
[2016-01-19 02:39:54] lockhedge : i would say "competitive" not "aggressive" as aggressive mainly is used to describe liquidity taking strategies (at least in science)
[2016-01-19 02:40:19] tscha : sleger: I have been running my bot since 2 months
[2016-01-19 02:40:42] gaoMex : micmix: I know you are a mm. Will be curious to understand your mm strategy.
[2016-01-19 02:40:47] tscha : i had days with 2k+ btc volume
[2016-01-19 02:41:28] sleger : tscha: alright, so assuming you make money every day (otherwise wouldnt really consider it a good mm strategy), you are saying most of your profits come from rebates ?
[2016-01-19 02:41:29] tscha : but who cares, it doesn't matter for the discussion
[2016-01-19 02:41:40] gaoMex : tscha: if you don't hedge that amount of BTC, it's scary
[2016-01-19 02:41:49] sleger : gaoMex: it's not one way
[2016-01-19 02:42:03] zanza : isolate margin = BitMEX hedge
[2016-01-19 02:42:56] gaoMex : sleger: So usually, the buy and sell volume will nett out each other?
[2016-01-19 02:43:13] tscha : gaoMex: I only trade small sizes, my positions rarely exceed 10k contracts, mostly 15.
[2016-01-19 02:43:17] sleger : well if you dont want to have too much exposure, you can start quoting one side only to reduce
[2016-01-19 02:43:33] lockhedge : micmix: yes some kind. diversification is the best hedge - hedging single positions just costs money, increases risk and means arbitrage trading not market making
[2016-01-19 02:44:06] rapidtrades : lockhedge: what do u mean by diversification
[2016-01-19 02:45:10] gaoMex : By mm, i can those who own mm bots.
[2016-01-19 02:45:30] gaoMex : Not those who place a bid or offer
[2016-01-19 02:46:00] gaoMex : *limit bid or offer
[2016-01-19 02:47:11] gaoMex : micmix: Comfortable to share your strategy?
[2016-01-19 02:47:40] lockhedge : rapidtrades: market making a wide range of instruments / asset classes with non-connected bots
[2016-01-19 02:50:00] micmix : lockhedge: sorry for using the wrong word, lack of education in finance :-) yes, my bot runs with very competitive settings on BitMEX but it almost nevere a taker
[2016-01-19 02:51:04] micmix : tscha and sleger are using a bit different classes of algos as far as I understand, that's why they have such different sources of profit
[2016-01-19 02:51:21] gaoMex : micmix: I experienced that in the H16 and M16 contracts. :)
[2016-01-19 02:51:33] gaoMex : "almost never a taker"
[2016-01-19 02:52:32] micmix : sleger runs more of a predictive algo than standard 'market neutral' MM
[2016-01-19 02:54:40] micmix : tscha has more neutral MM that gets most of its profit from rebates and spread
[2016-01-19 02:55:06] micmix : I'm not privy to the algos, it's just my observation of the book
[2016-01-19 02:55:12] rapidtrades : lockhedge: like what? if the underlying is bitcoin, ur proly exposing urself to a lot or risk without hedging
[2016-01-19 02:55:18] tscha : micmix: yeah, I think my prediction logic sucks when you make like 10% of commissions only and the rest via spread
[2016-01-19 02:56:37] micmix : I suspect that sleger gets bigger profit as % of volume than tscha but I could be wrong of course :-)
[2016-01-19 02:57:04] tscha : Well, that is the conclusion :D
[2016-01-19 02:59:58] rapidtrades : how does a typical daily profit sequence looks for MM? is it +1+1+1+1+1+1 then -4 if we get some movement or
[2016-01-19 03:01:01] rapidtrades : profit per day not per trade
[2016-01-19 03:01:43] lockhedge : rapidtrades: true, if you are exclusively market making bitcoin it's like you are investing all your money in bitcoin: not a diversified portfolio
[2016-01-19 03:04:14] lockhedge : rapidtrades: it depends on the setup, typically a mm lose money in jump periods and wins (back more) money in the post-jump periods - if there's an obvious trend, it's naturally bad if you follow a neutral strategy without trend following, but in more than 50% of the time, there's no obvious trend
[2016-01-19 03:04:15] tscha : rapidtrades: sometimes market moves through you and you have troubles getting rid of your position. happens very rarely though.
[2016-01-19 03:05:38] tscha : the worst thing - at least for me - is a steady rise with very low volume when you are having a negative position.
[2016-01-19 03:06:15] rapidtrades : ok so when's the last time u had a losing day
[2016-01-19 03:06:36] tscha : won't say or you will be upset :D
[2016-01-19 03:07:30] tscha : no wait, actually saturday
[2016-01-19 03:08:01] micmix : worst case scenario for neutral MM is straight up on the quanto futures on the exchange were most ppl go long (like BitMEX)
[2016-01-19 03:08:13] rapidtrades : nice....I made some money that day @tscha
[2016-01-19 03:08:39] tscha : rapidtrades: good to hear :)
[2016-01-19 03:09:02] rapidtrades : maybe I'll try this bot shit out...seems a good addon considering I mostly follow the trend
[2016-01-19 03:09:19] rapidtrades : kind of a hedge
[2016-01-19 03:09:21] gaoMex : micmix: "neutral MM" - How do you ensure that?
[2016-01-19 03:09:36] tscha : micmix: exactly
[2016-01-19 03:10:00] rapidtrades : anyone running long only algos here?
[2016-01-19 03:10:14] tscha : not me
[2016-01-19 03:10:55] micmix : by neutral MM I mean 'market neutral', MM that doesn't make any assumptions/predictions on the price direction
[2016-01-19 03:11:38] rapidtrades : so what's the risk profile of the bots u run? is it win small for a few days then lose big on one day we get large move
[2016-01-19 03:12:03] gaoMex : micmix: Fair enough. But if Bitcoin is in a bull market, where the price rises everyday, how do you reduce your loss?
[2016-01-19 03:12:19] gaoMex : Shut down the bot?
[2016-01-19 03:12:33] rapidtrades : prices rarely rises every day
[2016-01-19 03:12:58] tscha : gaoMex: one possibility would be to widen the spread on the upside
[2016-01-19 03:13:02] rapidtrades : plus intra-day you have a lot of swings
[2016-01-19 03:13:19] gaoMex : It happens, like Nov 2013.
[2016-01-19 03:13:54] rapidtrades : there were large down moves there....close to 50% on some exchanges
[2016-01-19 03:13:58] gaoMex : tscha: That will be hedging, no?
[2016-01-19 03:14:13] tscha : gaoMex: no
[2016-01-19 03:14:41] tscha : gaoMex: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/hedge.asp
[2016-01-19 03:14:51] rapidtrades : gaoMex: u can't ''hedge'' here...if u go long and short u'll be netted out
[2016-01-19 03:15:29] gaoMex : tscha: What's the point of widening the spread on the upside then?
[2016-01-19 03:15:44] gaoMex : It's just a matter of time before the price caught up
[2016-01-19 03:15:57] rapidtrades : ....to capture more of the upside? minimize the ask fills etc
[2016-01-19 03:16:30] gaoMex : If your widen the spread too much, the offer will not be hit anyway
[2016-01-19 03:16:36] rapidtrades : gaoMex: price very rarely moves straight up..if it did, I'll be a millionaire 10 times over
[2016-01-19 03:16:52] lockhedge : the price is already a prediction of the market of the price, nobody can time the market, even if it went upside the last 10 days
[2016-01-19 03:16:56] rapidtrades : gaoMex: exactly...that's partially the point
[2016-01-19 03:17:34] gaoMex : lockhedge: Fair point.
[2016-01-19 03:18:03] gaoMex : I just felt that the risk for mm is quite substantial
[2016-01-19 03:18:12] tscha : gaoMex: well, you were talking about how to avoid the danger of an uptrend. So if you already have a short position and the price keeps moving and you don't want to increase your position/exposure, you could just quote your offers at a higher price so people either 1) don't hit them or 2) hit them with a premium.
[2016-01-19 03:18:24] tscha : gaoMex: no it's not
[2016-01-19 03:18:37] rapidtrades : gaoMex: don't worry about it
[2016-01-19 03:18:52] tscha : lift* btw
[2016-01-19 03:19:40] rapidtrades : do ur bots take into account the premium or discount
[2016-01-19 03:19:53] lockhedge : tscha: if you add a premium after an uptrend, you are predicting the future based on the past. i'd say that's not market making, but trend following
[2016-01-19 03:20:18] tscha : lockhedge: I just want to limit my exposure by keeping my position low
[2016-01-19 03:21:06] tscha : If an already large position get's further increased, I will want to get compensated for it. Hence the premium.
[2016-01-19 03:21:34] tscha : rapidtrades: Every bot is different. But I think most do.
[2016-01-19 03:22:08] micmix : @sleger, not participating in the discussion? Would be interesting to know if I'm right by calling your algo more of a predictive algo than regular MM.
[2016-01-19 03:22:47] micmix : you don't have to answer of course :-)
[2016-01-19 03:23:44] tscha : "nobody can time the market" btw, I doubt that that's the case for bitcoin markets :D
[2016-01-19 03:24:39] lockhedge : tscha: do you mean a price change b/c of position accumulation, based on the code? or are you manually adding a premium in an uptrend?
[2016-01-19 03:25:06] tscha : lockhedge: position accumulation
[2016-01-19 03:25:29] tscha : I don't want to have too large positions on my bot, since it's hard to get rid of them in emergency
[2016-01-19 03:28:11] lockhedge : tscha: ok, doing that as well, there is "fill premium" after a bid gets hit for the next bid that is being placed, but a fixed position limit after x filled bits with a hardcoded max. position premium)
[2016-01-19 03:28:52] tscha : lockhedge: are you from the cs field or finance field?
[2016-01-19 03:29:58] micmix : lockhedge: that's a common way to do inventory control. you might want to try quadratic inventory control function, sometimes it works better for neutral MM
[2016-01-19 03:29:59] tscha : i'm asking because I see all the papers you are sharing :D however you like coding too so I am not sure
[2016-01-19 03:30:31] rapidtrades : I haven't seeen a siingle paper posted here
[2016-01-19 03:30:43] rapidtrades : or any useful link tbh
[2016-01-19 03:30:49] tscha : not here, on twitter
[2016-01-19 03:37:15] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 100 @ 381.81
[2016-01-19 03:37:48] rapidtrades : does anyone have any idea why sleger keeps buying the LIQs
[2016-01-19 03:40:24] micmix : short answer: to make money :-) long answer: liq orders usually provide a good opportunity to reduce your large position with minimal slippage or enter a position at favorable price
[2016-01-19 03:40:56] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 50 @ 381.43
[2016-01-19 03:41:15] micmix : ^^ not small ones like this
[2016-01-19 03:41:17] lockhedge : tscha: i'm coding (mainly for fun) since i'm 8 then mainly studied social systems and worked in public affairs and politics (as well on financial regulation), maybe "systems theoretic background" would fit most ;)
[2016-01-19 03:41:42] rapidtrades : micmix: makes sense...but the way he does it, he seemed to be buying/selling indiscriminately
[2016-01-19 03:41:56] tscha : lockhedge: sounds pretty cool
[2016-01-19 03:42:14] micmix : rapidtrades: it just looks that way to others :-)
[2016-01-19 03:43:43] micmix : like if you look at my bot on 24H it just buys and sells random sizes all the time but there is a system, I can assure you ;-)
[2016-01-19 03:44:12] rapidtrades : is the system ''lose money as soon as possible''
[2016-01-19 03:44:27] tscha : micmix: btw, your bot doing fine?
[2016-01-19 03:44:50] micmix : rapidtrades: pretty much
[2016-01-19 03:45:03] rapidtrades : :)
[2016-01-19 03:46:19] micmix : tscha: yeah, doing OK. lost 0.5 coin on XBTM16 bc I forgot to uncheck 'isolate margin' :-)
[2016-01-19 03:46:54] rapidtrades : yeah that shit's on my default
[2016-01-19 03:47:04] rapidtrades : if u haven't traded a particular contract
[2016-01-19 03:47:07] tscha : micmix: happened to me too.. you are not alone :D
[2016-01-19 03:47:26] rapidtrades : u need to uncheck it on every new contract...i shouldn't be on my default
[2016-01-19 03:47:27] micmix : it's not visible on my screen and I assumed I already did that bc I always do that right away
[2016-01-19 03:47:51] salcon : micmix: это не твой бот случайно по 6000 ордера тусует?
[2016-01-19 03:47:54] lockhedge : micmix: thanks for pointing to *quadratic inventory control*, was already searching for something similar, my bot currently has a dynamic (within a hardcoded range) fill premium/discount based on spreads of different markets (e.g. BitMEX vs. Bitfinex premium)
[2016-01-19 03:48:33] micmix : salcon: net, moi sovsem malen'kii :-)
[2016-01-19 03:49:06] tscha : well, I'm off guys, cya
[2016-01-19 03:49:09] salcon : micmix: дастал этот чувак. туда-сюда туда-сюда
[2016-01-19 03:49:23] micmix : bye tscha
[2016-01-19 03:49:26] rapidtrades : RUSSIAN DETECTED, INVASION IMMINENT
[2016-01-19 03:50:02] micmix : salcon: bez nego nikto by tut ne torgoval, eto glavnyi market maker
[2016-01-19 03:50:11] rapidtrades : tscha: buy turn off ur bot before u go
[2016-01-19 03:50:23] lockhedge : guess i should sleep a bit as well, it's 04:49 here :( see you guys
[2016-01-19 03:50:46] micmix : rapidtrades: well we've got one russian guy, at least I get to practice my russian, it's getting very rusty :-)
[2016-01-19 03:50:54] tscha : rapidtrades: my bot runs in mini-mode since saturday since I detected a problem and have no time to fix it
[2016-01-19 03:50:55] tscha : n8n8
[2016-01-19 03:51:25] micmix : bye lockhedge
[2016-01-19 03:51:28] rapidtrades : dam ur bot got wrecked by that downmove
[2016-01-19 03:52:32] salcon : micmix: по моему он тупо коридор держит