This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2016-01-13 09:16:47] Yepachuchu : it might not turn out to be 'oh my god money 2.0!!', but it will have a place
[2016-01-13 09:18:38] micmix : Bitcoin is the best choice because enough people with money invested in it assuming that the value of their investment will grow. If you convert your govt money to bitcoin and it value drops substantially you won't be too happy about your choice :-) @messiaen8844
[2016-01-13 09:19:28] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 6 @ 430.01
[2016-01-13 09:19:59] micmix : I love bitcoin and want it to succeed but I get discouraged by that endless block size debate
[2016-01-13 09:20:16] Yepachuchu : just a bump in the road
[2016-01-13 09:20:23] micmix : I really hope so
[2016-01-13 09:35:30] messiaen8844 : micmix: i am not overinvested, but bitcoin is a very unique asset
[2016-01-13 09:44:09] Yepachuchu : the fact that i can use btc to invest in other markets makes it kinda unique to others
[2016-01-13 09:44:17] Yepachuchu : i can't hold gold and go to a website and trade oil
[2016-01-13 09:44:28] Yepachuchu : at least, not that i know of
[2016-01-13 09:45:05] Yepachuchu : if i want to play oil, that is easily doable in btc alone
[2016-01-13 09:51:49] Yepachuchu : bitmex sound alerts: when your music clicks offbeat, you make mone
[2016-01-13 09:52:05] Yepachuchu : y*
[2016-01-13 11:13:50] slacknation : timecheck
[2016-01-13 11:46:55] chromaticcr : settlement = free lap dances (for me and Bitmex guys)
[2016-01-13 11:49:45] slacknation : hmm bids higher than settle price?
[2016-01-13 11:50:17] slacknation : ok no more lol
[2016-01-13 11:50:24] chromaticcr : fees too high for me to dump thou
[2016-01-13 11:50:46] chromaticcr : lol
[2016-01-13 11:50:49] slacknation : yah, fees are high here
[2016-01-13 11:52:22] chromaticcr : profits are high too
[2016-01-13 11:52:52] chromaticcr : who bought 10k at 10 minutes b4 settlement
[2016-01-13 11:52:54] chromaticcr : thanks!
[2016-01-13 11:55:08] laisee : chromaticcr: > lend us a tenner and I will buy some more.
[2016-01-13 12:26:22] rapidtrades : index above finex/okc WTF
[2016-01-13 12:27:45] rapidtrades : quick q...shouldn't the fair basis decline every day for the 3m/6m?
[2016-01-13 12:28:27] j8 : rapidtrades: it does, but the basis rate increased since yesterday... maybe that's what you're seeing?
[2016-01-13 12:28:37] rapidtrades : well shit
[2016-01-13 12:28:44] rapidtrades : why is that?
[2016-01-13 12:29:13] j8 : because there were bids, it's adjusted to be near the center of the market
[2016-01-13 12:29:31] rapidtrades : ok tnx
[2016-01-13 12:29:50] rapidtrades : I thought it was only spot+basis
[2016-01-13 12:30:15] rapidtrades : yday It was below bids
[2016-01-13 12:32:42] slacknation : u can go tradeblock to see y index is above bfx and okc
[2016-01-13 12:32:42] j8 : they set an annualized rate, which is now 96% on `H16` and 92% on `M16`. it is spot + basis but the basis is the spot*rate*daysToExpiry/365
[2016-01-13 12:33:06] rapidtrades : yes that was my point, it should decay with time
[2016-01-13 12:33:09] slacknation : fair price calculation is not known
[2016-01-13 12:33:10] j8 : `spot * fairBasisRate * daysToExpiry /365`
[2016-01-13 12:33:27] j8 : it decays continuously so you won't notice the change
[2016-01-13 12:33:57] slacknation : fairbasisrate can be more than the decay
[2016-01-13 12:34:09] j8 : but since fairBasisRate increased and daysToExpiry decreased, it may have gone up
[2016-01-13 12:34:32] rapidtrades : I do notice the change cos I'm long daily/short H16....first was down $17.2 while other down only $16.3
[2016-01-13 12:36:07] slacknation : tough luck bro
[2016-01-13 12:36:41] rapidtrades : :)
[2016-01-13 12:37:20] rapidtrades : just looking for some transparency on how the basis setting works...on others its market driven
[2016-01-13 12:37:27] j8 : yes without the rate change and also without the decay it would have been a bigger drop in $ on `H16` for the same percentage move
[2016-01-13 12:38:24] slacknation : fairbasis is used to reduce bitmex's risk
[2016-01-13 12:38:32] j8 : nope
[2016-01-13 12:38:48] j8 : bitmex doesn't take risk except on `XBU`
[2016-01-13 12:38:51] slacknation : i mean minimise social loss
[2016-01-13 12:38:57] rapidtrades : no
[2016-01-13 12:39:16] SnackyCoins : its to provide an incentive to short.
[2016-01-13 12:39:22] j8 : if it's poorly set, DPE is likely
[2016-01-13 12:39:37] j8 : if that's what you mean
[2016-01-13 12:39:41] slacknation : but minimize social loss does not mean less margin calls, go figure
[2016-01-13 12:40:38] slacknation : i mean liquidation
[2016-01-13 12:42:31] j8 : rapidtrades: it just gets set manually once in a while by arthur / wally. you can see it on the contract specification or in the instruments table on advanced view
[2016-01-13 12:44:49] j8 : those quarterlies are not yet liquid enough for the automatic adjustments. it doesn't really matter that much unless you're in danger of liquidation though
[2016-01-13 12:59:32] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT7D`: Sell 400 @ 428.22
[2016-01-13 13:06:02] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT7D`: Sell 4000 @ 425.01
[2016-01-13 13:11:23] zanza : back to 420's `BlazeIt`
[2016-01-13 13:19:39] rapidtrades : btc-e still higher then everyone
[2016-01-13 13:30:20] chromaticcr : wayyy too high
[2016-01-13 13:57:03] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 5052 @ 428.07
[2016-01-13 13:57:23] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 260 @ 428.40
[2016-01-13 15:00:58] rapidtrades : guys the sky is fallings
[2016-01-13 15:18:32] tscha : when you say that, my basic instinct is to go immediately long.. but you were right yesterday at some point, so I am hesitating
[2016-01-13 15:21:09] rapidtrades : I wasn't ''right''...there was this guy that was sure it will go up...I just said ''or go down''
[2016-01-13 15:21:29] rapidtrades : I did have small volatility bet that paid off tho
[2016-01-13 15:31:06] sleger : I'm long now
[2016-01-13 15:51:12] zanza : so rapidtrades is the voice of reason here now?
[2016-01-13 15:51:27] zanza : the new messiah!
[2016-01-13 16:58:25] rapidtrades : oil nearing lows again
[2016-01-13 17:37:42] zanza : is Snacky still long oil ?
[2016-01-13 17:37:59] tscha : Orderbook broken again... sleger is that really necessary?
[2016-01-13 17:38:18] zanza : thanks sleger ...
[2016-01-13 17:40:18] sleger : ahahahah
[2016-01-13 17:40:28] sleger : but that's not me, I would only do that with 1s not 2s
[2016-01-13 17:41:25] zanza : its micmix then
[2016-01-13 17:42:05] micmix : zanza: not me, my bot is 105/106 that you see
[2016-01-13 17:43:09] tscha : micmix: btw, I saw Sam mention that they are hosting on 1c, so I checked again... Have noticable lower ping on 1a than on 1c. what's ur ping on 1c?
[2016-01-13 17:43:52] micmix : tscha: I didn't have time to check or move the bot yet
[2016-01-13 17:44:45] tscha : micmix: for me, ping on 1a and 1b are approximately the same, but 1c is like 20-30% higher... really odd
[2016-01-13 17:45:02] BitMEX_Sam : tscha: That is odd.
[2016-01-13 17:45:11] micmix : tscha: that's odd, I will definitely check before moving
[2016-01-13 17:45:15] BitMEX_Sam : Have you tried multiple instances? Sometimes you just get a weird one.
[2016-01-13 17:45:35] SnackyCoins : zanza: ofc
[2016-01-13 17:45:50] SnackyCoins : inventory report ATH and we failed to make a new low on oil
[2016-01-13 17:45:56] SnackyCoins : so take from that what you will
[2016-01-13 17:46:06] tscha : BitMEX_Sam: I tried two different instances on 1c. Ping is obviously very low, but still higher than on 1a and 1b
[2016-01-13 17:47:17] micmix : tscha: did you measure the full cycle latency (place an order and check when it appears on the book) or just ping?
[2016-01-13 17:47:26] tscha : micmix: just ping
[2016-01-13 17:47:28] BitMEX_Sam : Seems there's a bit of jitter, but I see about avg 150 ns better ping from 1c than 1a
[2016-01-13 17:47:59] tscha : BitMEX_Sam: are you pinging your internal IP? cause I obviously have to ping the public one
[2016-01-13 17:48:04] BitMEX_Sam : Public
[2016-01-13 17:48:36] sleger : and because a few micros on bitcoin trading matters, right ...
[2016-01-13 17:48:47] tscha : wait.. ns? 0.15 microseconds? what's your ping from 1c? oO
[2016-01-13 17:49:31] BitMEX_Sam : Sorry, us, not ns
[2016-01-13 17:49:50] BitMEX_Sam : Even on the internal network I see about .9 to 1.2ms
[2016-01-13 17:49:50] micmix : sleger: I actually added 10ms artificial delay bc it doesn't really matter here (not now anyway)
[2016-01-13 17:50:32] sleger : of course it doesnt, measuring ping time at this level is a waste of valuable trollbox space
[2016-01-13 17:50:56] tscha : we all know it doesn't matter, however it is weird
[2016-01-13 17:51:18] micmix : "valuable trollbox space" - quote of the day :-)
[2016-01-13 17:51:18] tscha : min/avg/max/mdev = 0.724/0.879/1.283/0.104 ms
[2016-01-13 17:51:36] sleger : whats weird is spending time measuring something that doesnt matter no ?
[2016-01-13 17:52:15] BitMEX_Sam : tscha: Yeah, that seems normal.
[2016-01-13 17:52:31] BitMEX_Sam : A question for you all, do you like/use the order overlay on the chart?
[2016-01-13 17:52:31] micmix : it's not weird if you are getting paid to do that :-)
[2016-01-13 17:52:50] tscha : that's from 1a
[2016-01-13 17:52:58] BitMEX_Sam : I'm aware there's been some confusion that moving orders does not actually amend them.
[2016-01-13 17:53:14] BitMEX_Sam : We're going to add order amend in the next week or so, and I want to wire that up to the chart, but it could be a surprising change.
[2016-01-13 17:53:27] BitMEX_Sam : We'll add a confirm dialog at first of course.
[2016-01-13 17:54:52] tscha : that's from one of the 1c instances.. obviously doesn't matter but still weird that I get the highest ping from 1c min/avg/max/mdev = 1.030/1.192/2.199/0.229 ms
[2016-01-13 17:57:13] BitMEX_Sam : I agree that it's odd, AWS routing is somewhat of a black box at times
[2016-01-13 17:57:27] BitMEX_Sam : But of course 200us is just not going to matter.
[2016-01-13 17:58:59] tscha : I am running my bot from home (~50ms) sometimes for convenience reasons and it's perfectly fine... just need some place to load it off when I sleep. You really don't need low ping for bitcoin markets
[2016-01-13 19:06:20] BitMEX_Sam : Might be another quiet day
[2016-01-13 19:07:34] tscha : past 24h were pretty nice, so we can't complain. maybe there will be another movement in ~4 hours when China wakes up again
[2016-01-13 19:08:38] tscha : sucks for bitcoin trading to be living in Europe, most of the times the major moves are during the night
[2016-01-13 19:23:42] Swedishnut : lots of talk on the webs of global bear market recession 20-30% losses until correction and redirection could see recovery by 2017 if the correction is swift and keen
[2016-01-13 19:39:12] zanza : Swedishnut: Is it true immigrants are raping women there now? I saw a lot of news article lately
[2016-01-13 19:40:27] Swedishnut : nothing I have seen with my own eyes but I have read in the papers now similar reports. I do not believe it to be at all to the degree Germany has been struck with
[2016-01-13 19:40:53] habibi : zanza: there? europe is kind of big terrority
[2016-01-13 19:42:10] habibi : in sweden/norway there are acts of stuff like that hidden by local police, in germany muslims played a "game" at new year's eve raping random woman on the streets :p
[2016-01-13 19:45:15] tscha : zanza: it's mostly propaganda by right-winged people. the problem is however that in most countries (especially Germany and Austria), the media cleary publish pro-refugees (although that is starting to change in Germany at the moment)
[2016-01-13 19:46:21] tscha : media thinks twice about publishing articles that could harm refugees, but publish everything that benefits the no-border policy, even if it's not true
[2016-01-13 19:48:01] habibi : tscha: propaganda? left winged media were hiding that info for 5 days at germany
[2016-01-13 19:51:39] tscha : habibi: That's what I said. Media has a very one-sided coverage = pro-refugees. However, because of this, more and more people engage in hoaxes on social media, where people make up rapes/robberies by refugees. Police sometimes steps in in social media to confirm that there were no incidents, but they have problems catching up with the hoaxes
[2016-01-13 19:52:10] lockhedge : facts: 2 women have been raped during these mass harassment in Cologne/Germany. 2 is sadly not significant for a NYE in big city. the intention of these organized attacks on women was very probably terror (generate panic through media attention)
[2016-01-13 19:54:07] tscha : lockhedge: by the way: https://twitter.com/arminwolf/status/409319537914703873
[2016-01-13 19:54:17] habibi : lockhedge: and about 80 at least woman at new years eve at germany
[2016-01-13 19:55:32] tscha : habibi: they weren't "raped", guys were grabbing their asses when they were walking by. It's sexual harrassment, but not rape.
[2016-01-13 19:55:48] rapidtrades : lockhedge: afaik 1 rape occurred...by that I think it was finger insertion
[2016-01-13 19:56:04] rapidtrades : seems like it was a distraction to steal shit
[2016-01-13 19:56:43] rapidtrades : the report was linked on reddit but its in german
[2016-01-13 19:57:55] rapidtrades : is that 44k baller sledger exiting his losing long?
[2016-01-13 19:58:11] habibi : tscha: lockhedge ah right. sorry for missinformation
[2016-01-13 20:01:34] zanza : tscha: I believe what you are saying, that way the media is going crazy over this seems artifical to me. According to the media that I saw, you can't go outside in Germany without getting raped
[2016-01-13 20:02:01] lockhedge : habibi: statistically aka "the sad truth", every 3 minutes a woman gets raped in Germany https://netzfrauen.org/2016/01/06/gewalt-frauen-alle-drei-minuten-ereignet-sich-deutschland-eine-vergewaltigung/ so 80 wouldn't be a high figure for NYE, but this has nothing to do with refugees
[2016-01-13 20:03:59] rapidtrades : zanza: it's cos they were women that got harrased...this is the usual reaction
[2016-01-13 20:04:15] rapidtrades : women>minorities>kids>white men
[2016-01-13 20:05:08] rapidtrades : nothing against refugees...just stating how things are in society imo...
[2016-01-13 20:05:11] zanza : https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/3zxxhi/reports_of_sexual_assaults_on_women_across/
[2016-01-13 20:13:56] tscha : lockhedge: you saw the armin wolf tweet about bitcoin? :D
[2016-01-13 20:16:08] lockhedge : tscha: we should tell armin wolf that he can short Bitcoin here on BitMEX ;)
[2016-01-13 22:24:07] tscha : moontime™
[2016-01-13 22:25:01] justinlooking : orly :)
[2016-01-13 22:28:10] tscha : bid-side of finex book is ultra-thin
[2016-01-13 22:28:21] justinlooking : bedtime, flying lessontomorrow - have 12 hrs to sober up
[2016-01-13 22:28:42] tscha : justinlooking: good night ;)
[2016-01-13 22:29:54] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 11 @ 428.74
[2016-01-13 22:35:04] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 3 @ 429.27 :punch: :whale:
[2016-01-13 22:35:15] tscha : neil armstrong starting the rocket
[2016-01-13 22:35:53] lockhedge : seems like neil is starting from China this time
[2016-01-13 22:37:22] tscha : still discount on 24h, i dont get it
[2016-01-13 22:37:39] sleger : really ?
[2016-01-13 22:37:44] mrp1nk : bots are bearish ;-)
[2016-01-13 22:38:47] tscha : $2 discount
[2016-01-13 22:42:51] tscha : lockhedge: you know if there is anything like cryptowat.ch, but with lower delay? could be paid too.
[2016-01-13 22:49:22] mrp1nk : BitMEX_Support: My isolate margin checkbox disapeared. Did i miss some changes?
[2016-01-13 22:50:20] sleger : did you trade XBU maybe ?
[2016-01-13 22:50:47] j8 : mines gone on too, all contracts
[2016-01-13 22:50:53] mrp1nk : nope, i'm at XBT24H
[2016-01-13 22:51:02] j8 : gone too, on all contracts **
[2016-01-13 22:51:14] sleger : ah yeah same, i never paid attention to that anyways
[2016-01-13 22:52:13] rapidtrades : dam I just refreshed and its gone as well
[2016-01-13 22:52:35] rapidtrades : I never used it...hope its gone forever tbh
[2016-01-13 22:53:26] habibi : yep but i can click somewhere there in blank field on sth but to scared to try :D
[2016-01-13 22:53:48] tscha : don't even know what's the problem. Under "Order Options" I can still pick Isolated, but I guess that is not the issue. What checkbox?
[2016-01-13 22:53:50] habibi : maybe its secret "setlement now! " button
[2016-01-13 22:54:15] j8 : just selects the row like clicking in other columns
[2016-01-13 22:59:54] mrp1nk : tscha: you're right, but i mean the (missing) checkbox in the last column under "Open Positions"
[2016-01-13 23:00:34] tscha : ah ok. yeah gone for me too.
[2016-01-13 23:00:44] BitMEX_Sam : Looking into it
[2016-01-13 23:05:24] hashman : yep isolate is gone
[2016-01-13 23:06:19] HowDoge : tscha: check out coinigy.com
[2016-01-13 23:20:03] AudibleScience : where did the isolated tick box?!
[2016-01-13 23:21:44] AudibleScience : oh... I see you're already on it... cool! Never-mind then...
[2016-01-13 23:25:12] AudibleScience : FYI: You can still toggle the margin from isolated to cross using the order options in the order control box for now if you need to...
[2016-01-13 23:32:38] BitMEX_Sam : Thanks for the report everyone, if you refresh you will see that the checkbox is back.
[2016-01-13 23:32:43] BitMEX_Sam : Very sorry for the interruption.
[2016-01-13 23:35:42] mrp1nk : BitMEX_Sam: thx, it's working now
[2016-01-13 23:47:42] tscha : HowDoge: is there any way to see orderbook and chart together?
[2016-01-13 23:48:46] gouda : yes under advanced
[2016-01-13 23:48:58] gouda : click on your name top right
[2016-01-13 23:49:02] gouda : then click on advanced
[2016-01-13 23:49:14] tscha : thanks
[2016-01-13 23:49:25] tscha : wait
[2016-01-13 23:49:33] tscha : LOL
[2016-01-13 23:49:38] tscha : I am talking about coinigy, not bimtex
[2016-01-13 23:49:49] HowDoge : yeah, what gouda said for here. this is what coinigy looks like: http://prntscr.com/9pszcm
[2016-01-13 23:50:13] tscha : okay, after refreshing it works
[2016-01-13 23:52:08] tscha : But the orderbook is not updating real-time
[2016-01-13 23:54:29] habibi : BitMEX_Sam: yea i got the problem with order book as well
[2016-01-13 23:55:41] tscha : "as well"?
[2016-01-13 23:56:04] tscha : I am talking about coinigy all the time, not bitmex
[2016-01-13 23:56:06] micmix : all this drop and not one fill below $500 on XBTH16? shorters, please do something! ;-)
[2016-01-14 00:11:28] Akaiapc40 : Sorry....stupid question...how to close a position?
[2016-01-14 00:12:04] Akaiapc40 : ok....got it!
[2016-01-14 00:26:48] sleger : yeah just click isolate margin and wait for a 0.5% market move, it closes automatically
[2016-01-14 01:06:29] rapidtrades : market meltdown continues
[2016-01-14 01:06:39] rapidtrades : pboc fix in 9 mins
[2016-01-14 01:37:27] hashman : isolate margin button still missing lol
[2016-01-14 01:37:37] rapidtrades : refresh
[2016-01-14 01:37:55] hashman : word. thxs
[2016-01-14 01:46:43] rapidtrades : Yuan 0.6% weaker
[2016-01-14 01:47:00] sleger : excellent
[2016-01-14 01:51:02] rapidtrades : fixing was little changed but yuan got sold anyway...weird
[2016-01-14 01:51:47] rapidtrades : not a huge surprise after selloff in S&P earlier...maybe due to stock market selling
[2016-01-14 02:25:15] Royshel : Hi all
[2016-01-14 02:54:36] hashman : why xbt24h trading $1 below index?
[2016-01-14 02:57:00] lockhedge : hashman: because more people were selling than buying, market makers had to adjust prices until people were buying again
[2016-01-14 03:02:00] zanza : Royshel: hi
[2016-01-14 04:29:26] kingscrown : who heres bets sports? http://fuk.io/best-sites-to-gamble-btc-online-sports-poker-dice-betting-casinos/
[2016-01-14 04:38:37] gouda : ill stick to fanduel but thanks :D
[2016-01-14 04:58:37] gouda : BORING
[2016-01-14 04:58:42] gouda : SOMEONE DO SOMETHING
[2016-01-14 04:58:47] gouda : k thanks!
[2016-01-14 04:58:51] gouda : :D
[2016-01-14 05:19:51] Swedishnut : POTATO! :P
[2016-01-14 06:19:34] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 150 @ 428.35
[2016-01-14 07:38:59] micmix : BitMEX_Sam, BitMEX_Wally, are you there? Need you guys to check something
[2016-01-14 07:40:05] BitMEX_Arthur : micmix: Hey what's up, this something technical?
[2016-01-14 07:40:48] micmix : yep, technical
[2016-01-14 07:41:39] micmix : my bot was getting errors placing orders and then all orders showed up at once, 10+ orders at the same time :-)
[2016-01-14 07:41:58] micmix : or more like 30+ orders
[2016-01-14 07:42:21] BitMEX_Arthur : What time did this happen about?
[2016-01-14 07:42:29] tscha : micmix: what was the error? then I scan my logs for it
[2016-01-14 07:44:55] micmix : on this account 2016-01-14T07:10:58.352Z to 2016-01-14T07:14:47.997Z
[2016-01-14 07:45:07] micmix : timeout error
[2016-01-14 07:47:51] BitMEX_Arthur : The api went down for a minute or so around 07:13:00 UTC I think that is what caused it
[2016-01-14 07:50:39] micmix : it's weird because those orders were actually filled later, so the API have received the orders but didn't acknowledge them for a while?
[2016-01-14 07:51:05] BitMEX_Wally : micmix: You had a timeout over REST?
[2016-01-14 07:51:10] BitMEX_Wally : Then saw all the orders appear over WebSocket?
[2016-01-14 07:53:29] micmix : BitMEX_Wally: timeout over REST, nothing on websocket then bunch of fills
[2016-01-14 07:55:48] micmix : maybe the API went down before sending order status back?
[2016-01-14 07:57:09] BitMEX_Wally : There was a problem with a service provider we use for WebSocket
[2016-01-14 07:57:38] BitMEX_Wally : Sam is working to move us onto another service
[2016-01-14 07:59:09] BitMEX_Wally : micmix: You can send a `clOrdID` to prevent duplicate orders ending up in the book
[2016-01-14 08:02:21] micmix : I'm sending clOrdID but it's unique per order and if the first order failed, next order will have a new clOrdID. I will have to change how clOrdID is generated
[2016-01-14 08:05:15] micmix : I will add some logic to handle timeout errors differently and actually poll for active orders after timeout
[2016-01-14 08:06:59] BitMEX_Wally : Did the API send you a timeout error, or you just timed out locally?
[2016-01-14 08:09:26] micmix : http post timed out (10 sec)
[2016-01-14 08:23:33] BitMEX_Wally : Our apologies, we are fixing
[2016-01-14 08:27:23] micmix : I'm glad that I'm still testing or I could've ended up with 100k position :-)
[2016-01-14 08:33:13] tscha : I didn't have any timeout issues in the specified time period btw
[2016-01-14 08:37:18] Samirum : **Hello Guys i'm New here how do I trade the 100x leverage futures?
[2016-01-14 08:38:36] Samirum : **Can anyone help me how it works here? Has some experience on Okcoin**
[2016-01-14 08:43:04] BitMEX_Wally : Samirum: Welcome to BitMEX
[2016-01-14 08:43:33] BitMEX_Wally : `XBT24H` is our 100x leveraged future which expires every 24 hours
[2016-01-14 08:43:57] BitMEX_Wally : Once you have deposited some Bitcoin you can trade here: https://www.bitmex.com/app/trade/XBT24H
[2016-01-14 08:46:08] Samirum : BitMEX_Wally: thanks what's the delivery time
[2016-01-14 08:46:25] Samirum : Monthly or weekly
[2016-01-14 08:47:47] rapidtrades : daily
[2016-01-14 08:48:00] Samirum : BitMEX_Wally: so I have to settled my position before 24hrs?
[2016-01-14 08:48:27] rapidtrades : yeah current contract it expires in 3 hrs
[2016-01-14 08:49:54] Samirum : rapidtrades: what's the % for margin call and liqidations
[2016-01-14 08:51:17] tscha : Samirum: Welcome! There is a really good faq here that will answer 95% of your questions: https://www.bitmex.com/app/faq
[2016-01-14 08:51:59] rapidtrades : Samirum: don't know...I usually trade small
[2016-01-14 08:52:23] Samirum : rapidtrades: thanks for the help though
[2016-01-14 08:53:13] rapidtrades : np
[2016-01-14 08:53:29] tscha : Samirum: keep in mind the faq is not up-to-date when it comes to contract types. now, there are 4 different quanto futures (daily, weekly, march, june) and one inverse future (weekly)
[2016-01-14 08:59:04] Teddy76 : hey, i have an order which still appear on my active order but not on the orderbook, and when i try to cancel them, i have error message "order could not be cancelled [Object object]"
[2016-01-14 08:59:22] Teddy76 : nether had this kind of problem
[2016-01-14 08:59:40] tscha : did you try refreshing?
[2016-01-14 09:00:02] Teddy76 : lol, thanks tscha :)
[2016-01-14 09:00:13] Teddy76 : that was enough
[2016-01-14 09:00:26] Akaiapc40 : i'm still don't understandign basics
[2016-01-14 09:00:29] Akaiapc40 : :O
[2016-01-14 09:00:35] tscha : Akaiapc40: have you read the faq?
[2016-01-14 09:01:56] tscha : Akaiapc40: If you have read some basics, feel free to ask
[2016-01-14 09:01:57] Akaiapc40 : tscha: i'll give a look
[2016-01-14 09:02:08] Akaiapc40 : ok thanks!
[2016-01-14 09:07:56] Akaiapc40 : tscha: i've read...buts something is still not fully clear
[2016-01-14 09:08:22] tscha : Akaiapc40: feel free to ask
[2016-01-14 09:08:25] Akaiapc40 : forin details....last price now is 429,32....if i think that the price will go down?
[2016-01-14 09:08:41] Akaiapc40 : i have to put a lower price in LIMIT window and press sell?
[2016-01-14 09:09:05] Akaiapc40 : sorry but are my firsts steps
[2016-01-14 09:12:27] tscha : So you haven't traded anywhere before? Hm okay. Well, first, take a look at the orderbook. You see red orders and green orders. Red orders = Ask orders. This means people want to sell futures. Green order = bid orders. These people want to buy futures. If a bid order and an ask order meet, then a trade will be executed by the system (bid buys from ask)
[2016-01-14 09:13:43] tscha : If you want to sell, you place a limit order with the price you want to sell at and click "Sell/Short".. this means you are placing an ask order
[2016-01-14 09:14:32] Akaiapc40 : "if i want to sell" means if i think that the price will go down?
[2016-01-14 09:14:43] tscha : Akaiapc40: yes
[2016-01-14 09:15:12] Akaiapc40 : tscha: Ok...
[2016-01-14 09:15:46] tscha : Akaiapc40: when you start trading, start with very low amounts.. just a handful of contracts, until you understand the system
[2016-01-14 09:16:05] tscha : that way you are safe when making a mistake
[2016-01-14 09:16:06] micmix : tscha: thanks for checking, I'm glad you didn't have any issues. I'll move to AWS soon, hope it will improve connectivity
[2016-01-14 09:16:23] Akaiapc40 : tscha: oh yes....i've deposited a very small amount just to be familiar with the system
[2016-01-14 09:17:18] tscha : Akaiapc40: When you start trading with 1 or 2 contracts only, there isn't much that can happen
[2016-01-14 09:20:17] tscha : Akaiapc40: here is a good and easy explanation if you aren't familiar with futures at all: https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/investing/started-futures-trading/
[2016-01-14 09:20:43] Akaiapc40 : tscha: oh wow...that's what i'm looking for ;)
[2016-01-14 09:22:03] Akaiapc40 : tscha: now for example...the last trade was colesd @ 429,20 i suppose that the price will go up...want to place an order at 429,50....i have to click buy or sell?
[2016-01-14 09:24:20] tscha : If you want to bet on a rising price, you buy futures. But I suggest you first read the articel I linked, or alternatively read this guide here: https://www.bitmex.com/app/lesson1
[2016-01-14 09:25:47] Akaiapc40 : tscha: ok i will read now...
[2016-01-14 09:25:52] Akaiapc40 : thanks again
[2016-01-14 09:31:37] Akaiapc40 : Ok...then i've place d my order and in the section Entry price i have Entry Price: 428.55 (+0.05)
[2016-01-14 09:31:48] Akaiapc40 : how to close the order when becomes green?
[2016-01-14 09:32:19] Akaiapc40 : i have to close market, or place an opposite order? @tscha
[2016-01-14 09:33:21] Akaiapc40 : tscha: hit close market and looks fine
[2016-01-14 09:33:45] tscha : Akaiapc40: You can do both, but it is safer to place an opposite order since you can specify the maximum price of execution. But what do you mean with "order becomes green"?
[2016-01-14 09:34:49] Akaiapc40 : tscha: Entry Price: 428.4 (-0.01)
[2016-01-14 09:35:25] Akaiapc40 : the (-0,01) is now red....when it becomes + then green means that i'm profit?
[2016-01-14 09:37:17] tscha : Akaiapc40: When there is a positive number next to `entry price`, this doesn't necessarily means that you wil make profit when you close a position. This only indicates that the `mark price` moved into your favor, but it is not the mark price that is important, it's the opposite orders that you need to look out for
[2016-01-14 09:38:33] Akaiapc40 : tscha: mark price you mean the big one witht the arrow up or down?
[2016-01-14 09:40:16] tscha : An example: The highest bid order is at 427.00, the lowest ask order ist at 428.00, so the mark price will be around 427.50. You buy at 428.00, then the price rises a little. Now the highest bid is 427.80, the lowest ask is 428.80 and the mark price is 428.30. There will be a positive number next to entry price because 428.30 (current mark price) is higher than your entry price (428.00), **however** you would still make a loss when you sell since the highest bid is only 427.80, which is lower than your entry price
[2016-01-14 09:43:30] tscha : Also, keep in mind that you have to pay fees, so even when you sell at a slightly higher price than you bought, you might make a slight loss.
[2016-01-14 09:44:03] Akaiapc40 : tscha: ok, many thanks for thsi little guide....i will rwad carefully
[2016-01-14 09:47:07] Teddy76 : Akaiapc40: mark price = fair price
[2016-01-14 09:47:39] Teddy76 : big price with green/red arrow is just the last price, not very important
[2016-01-14 09:48:10] Akaiapc40 : Teddy76: so there's not a clear indicator that show your trade is in profit or loss?
[2016-01-14 09:48:46] Teddy76 : like tscha said, the mark price gice you an indication
[2016-01-14 09:49:03] Teddy76 : of PnL
[2016-01-14 09:49:04] Akaiapc40 : Teddy76: thanks
[2016-01-14 09:49:13] Akaiapc40 : and sorry for my noob quetions
[2016-01-14 09:49:18] Akaiapc40 : really sorry
[2016-01-14 09:49:23] Teddy76 : but the most important is the orderbook
[2016-01-14 09:49:31] tscha : Akaiapc40: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEMjYgPjQX0
[2016-01-14 09:50:11] micmix : well, finally got rid of the position that my bot accumulated bc of timeout problem
[2016-01-14 09:50:25] Teddy76 : Akaiapc40: there is no noob question, don't quiet ;)
[2016-01-14 09:50:52] tscha : micmix: big loss?
[2016-01-14 09:51:53] micmix : tscha: gave away more than a half of daily profit but no losses. lucky that the price didn't move much
[2016-01-14 09:52:41] tscha : micmix: well could have ended worse :) are you trading normal order-sizes now?
[2016-01-14 09:53:45] micmix : adding another layer of protection now. no, still small 100-150 contracts. got permission to play with more but didn't have time to do anything :-)
[2016-01-14 09:56:51] tscha : micmix: the larger my position gets, the slower my bot increases it, that way nothing like that can happen
[2016-01-14 09:57:48] tscha : but thinking about it, this wouldn't have prevented the issue in your specific case
[2016-01-14 09:58:11] micmix : tscha: but the problem is that all 'failed' orders didn't actually failed and were executed all in once (30+ orders)
[2016-01-14 09:58:37] micmix : Of course I have inventory control but doesn't help in this case
[2016-01-14 09:59:40] tscha : micmix: yeah, true. anyway, cool that we have another mm :)
[2016-01-14 10:00:40] micmix : in general I found that proper error handling and protection sometimes takes more time than everything else
[2016-01-14 10:04:59] tscha : micmix: I just read a book about code design since my experience on that was very limited, and now I do a lot more testing / error handling than before
[2016-01-14 10:05:33] tscha : I am rewriting everything from scratch, it was unmaintenable, just very very bad style
[2016-01-14 10:06:00] tscha : but well, everybody starts from the bottom :D
[2016-01-14 10:06:24] micmix : yeah, it's always like that in the beginning. it's a lot like writing, the only way to write well is to write a lot.
[2016-01-14 10:06:32] laisee : tscha: > good code gets re-written many times. nice thatb you are Ok to throw & start again.
[2016-01-14 10:08:11] tscha : laisee: yeah, but if the basic architecture - the fundament - is very poorly designed, it's hard to rewrite just parts
[2016-01-14 10:08:44] laisee : exactly. bad coders keep "fixing". good coders draw a clean sheet.
[2016-01-14 10:09:48] micmix : usually you don't completely understand the problem before you implement a solution. so you make a prototype to understand, then throw it away and start from scratch
[2016-01-14 10:11:10] tscha : micmix: that makes sense. true, now I fully understand how it is working and what needs to be done, that makes designing easier
[2016-01-14 10:11:25] micmix : sometimes you can get away with refactoring but usually it's better to throw away the prototype and start again
[2016-01-14 10:11:27] laisee : hah. unless u work in a bank and trader sees your prototype, then will insist you release ASAP. :-o
[2016-01-14 10:12:16] micmix : laisee: happened to me many-many times, and not only in banks. startups are the same :-)
[2016-01-14 10:12:27] laisee : yup. same same.
[2016-01-14 10:13:07] slacknation : so many MM here, don't bully us normal folks :(
[2016-01-14 10:13:17] laisee : why you shd leave some obvious bugs in when you show prototype to business guys ...
[2016-01-14 10:13:31] tscha : however, reading that book really saved me. did everything wrong before... absolutely no abstraction, long functions, long classes, repeating code all over, no error handling.. haha
[2016-01-14 10:14:20] micmix : slacknation: we have only 4 MMs AFAIK, that's not a lot
[2016-01-14 10:15:07] laisee : slacknation: > MM != AI. Can be fooled sometimes by humanz.
[2016-01-14 10:15:27] micmix : laisee: I try to get away with showing wireframe UI, that's scary enough for most business folks
[2016-01-14 10:16:34] laisee : yep :-D
[2016-01-14 10:17:47] micmix : even if back-end works they don't want you to release it for some reason :-)
[2016-01-14 10:18:27] laisee : micmix: > people spend 95% of time reviewing f/end and just assume back end is easy or done.
[2016-01-14 10:35:20] tscha : micmix: are you working on bitcoin projects only at the moment, or projects for classic financial markets too?
[2016-01-14 10:37:50] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT7D`: Sell 490 @ 425.04
[2016-01-14 10:44:59] slacknation : REKT: is your bot opensourced?
[2016-01-14 10:50:25] micmix : tscha: mostly crypto stuff lately
[2016-01-14 10:51:43] micmix : slacknation: no, not open source
[2016-01-14 10:52:11] tscha : micmix: I wonder why you don't trade your own capital then. You don't need a lot of capital for crypto, even for spot, or do you?
[2016-01-14 10:53:17] micmix : sorry, have to sleep, middle of the night here. talk to you later and much profits! :-)
[2016-01-14 10:53:27] slacknation : need more aggressive MM that outbid each each :(
[2016-01-14 10:53:38] slacknation : other
[2016-01-14 10:54:07] tscha : micmix: good night ;)
[2016-01-14 11:00:09] Akaiapc40 : tscha: man, i'm still really confused....think i'm missing somethign to understand the mechanism out there
[2016-01-14 11:06:23] Akaiapc40 : Hi....anyone know a basic guide for Bitmex?
[2016-01-14 11:06:38] Akaiapc40 : already read FAQ
[2016-01-14 11:06:46] slacknation : to what?
[2016-01-14 11:07:02] tscha : Akaiapc40: it's not easy if you start directly with derivative trading instead of starting to trade on spot markets
[2016-01-14 11:08:25] slacknation : trading is one of the most transparent (not totally) industry, u can find many things just searching online
[2016-01-14 11:08:53] Akaiapc40 : I don't need a trading guide, i just need to understand some basic of Bitmex site that are not clear
[2016-01-14 11:08:59] Akaiapc40 : to me of course....
[2016-01-14 11:09:08] slacknation : say it then
[2016-01-14 11:09:30] slacknation : or email support
[2016-01-14 11:09:42] Akaiapc40 : Tscha was already very kind with me, maybe also loosing time explaining some basis....
[2016-01-14 11:09:55] Akaiapc40 : so i don't waste his time again:D
[2016-01-14 11:10:10] slacknation : then pay him lol
[2016-01-14 11:10:35] Akaiapc40 : i will do when i make some profit with BitMex :D lol
[2016-01-14 11:10:47] Akaiapc40 : is a circle
[2016-01-14 11:10:50] slacknation : just email support, they're paid to answer your questions
[2016-01-14 11:10:58] Akaiapc40 : ok slack...
[2016-01-14 11:11:01] Akaiapc40 : thanks to you
[2016-01-14 11:18:30] tscha : yeah, helped out some people and solved some issues... should charge bitmex for trollbox-support-fee
[2016-01-14 11:18:56] Akaiapc40 : :)
[2016-01-14 11:34:57] laisee : 1 contract per answered question?
[2016-01-14 12:01:57] rapidtrades : that rollover was way too easy...looks like another day of discounts
[2016-01-14 12:02:25] slacknation : eli5?
[2016-01-14 12:02:38] rapidtrades : nah
[2016-01-14 12:03:21] slacknation : guess people become arrogant after making dough
[2016-01-14 12:08:37] HowDoge : google it & learn, then rapid may or maynot answer your questions, but not like your 5
[2016-01-14 12:16:44] rapidtrades : markets and oil skirting on lows....not looking good
[2016-01-14 12:19:23] laisee : slacknation: > send an email to support@bitmex. Arthur is very good at explaining trading for normal folks.
[2016-01-14 12:23:34] HowDoge : or checkout his vids, they are very insightful
[2016-01-14 12:30:52] salcon : по русски кто нибудь говорит?
[2016-01-14 12:34:22] SnackyCoins : slack: also rapidtrades is usually pretty hard to understand
[2016-01-14 12:34:48] SnackyCoins : and in case xanza is around: yes i'm still long oil 8)
[2016-01-14 12:37:14] SnackyCoins : btc looking stronk today :D
[2016-01-14 12:50:40] salcon : How do I include a chart of trading?
[2016-01-14 12:54:03] BitMEX_Arthur : salcon: Are you looking for intraday charts of BitMEX products?
[2016-01-14 12:55:32] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Arthur: hey Arthur...can u explain how the 3m/6m contracts fair price gets adjusted? I noticed few days ago spot dropped $13 but march is down only $6
[2016-01-14 12:55:46] salcon : BitMEX_Arthur: I want to see a chart on the left rather than a proposal to make a deposit
[2016-01-14 12:56:17] BitMEX_Arthur : rapidtrades: Futures Price = Spot + Interest
[2016-01-14 12:56:41] BitMEX_Arthur : if the interest rates increase the futures prices does not have to drop the same magnitude as spot
[2016-01-14 12:57:13] BitMEX_Arthur : Given the long dated contracts have a lot of gamma / convexity / theta / time value the interest rate component becomes quite important
[2016-01-14 12:57:55] sleger : But this is not how you set it up though
[2016-01-14 12:58:08] sleger : You adjust it to follow market prices once in a while, right ?
[2016-01-14 12:58:26] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes we aim to have the fair in the bid / ask spread
[2016-01-14 12:58:43] BitMEX_Arthur : and we periodically adjust
[2016-01-14 12:59:26] sleger : many people asked recently in the chat, how the actual number is decided and what is the frequency / timing of readjust
[2016-01-14 13:01:55] BitMEX_Arthur : sleger: there is no schedule it is done when the fair price falls outside the bid / ask spread, we don't update it as frequently given the illiquidity of the contracts, and it's done manually by us
[2016-01-14 13:02:52] sleger : I knew that, and I think it's done pretty well. Just saying this is a question that comes up often here, so maybe you could detail it more in contract specs.
[2016-01-14 13:13:01] BitMEX_Arthur : salcon: Can you send a screenshot to support@bitmex.com with your question and we will take a look
[2016-01-14 13:13:54] salcon : BitMEX_Arthur: all right
[2016-01-14 13:15:05] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Arthur: but interest rates haven't gone up? I see 0.042% for usd on finex
[2016-01-14 13:15:18] HowDoge : BitMEX_Arthur: latest video was ace, learnt loads. thx
[2016-01-14 13:15:44] BitMEX_Arthur : rapidtrades: Let bfx be guide but the future trades on expected volatility + expected interest rates
[2016-01-14 13:15:54] BitMEX_Arthur : bfx is only current interest rates and max you can lock in for is 30 days
[2016-01-14 13:16:43] BitMEX_Arthur : think of bfx as overnight USD and XBT funding, but if you want to observe the curve you need to imply from longer dated futures contracts
[2016-01-14 13:17:01] rapidtrades : how do u calculate the fair basis rate then?
[2016-01-14 13:17:32] BitMEX_Arthur : we look at the implied rate based on the bid / ask and place the fair basis rate inside there so that the fair price is inside the bid / ask
[2016-01-14 13:17:41] BitMEX_Arthur : we respond to the market we don't make a judgement on what it should be
[2016-01-14 13:18:12] salcon : how to place an lossles order?
[2016-01-14 13:18:28] BitMEX_Arthur : What do you mean a lossless order?
[2016-01-14 13:18:51] sleger : i'd like to know that too
[2016-01-14 13:18:52] HowDoge : I need these lossless orders in my life
[2016-01-14 13:21:28] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Arthur: ok so what would happen if I started eating up the bids and price is now $50 lower? will u adjust the fair prices to be inside the new bid/ask?
[2016-01-14 13:21:58] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes we will gradually adj
[2016-01-14 13:23:03] BitMEX_Arthur : Given the liquidity issues we do take some discretion in how we move the fair basis, the whole point is to minimise the effects of traders causing margin calls due to the illiquidity and high leverage
[2016-01-14 13:28:54] j8 : BitMEX_Arthur: would be helpful to have a history of basis rates for each contract somewhere
[2016-01-14 13:29:57] BitMEX_Arthur : j8: At the current moment the best solution is to grab the `.XBT` index and plot against the futures price, you can back out the market implied basis. Having a historical ticker of the fair basis rate is on the development list
[2016-01-14 13:35:04] j8 : yeah, anyone that cares can work it out. just makes things easier for a lot of traders. would love to see a forward curve visual too
[2016-01-14 13:38:23] rapidtrades : dam spreads have come down nicely on 3m/6m
[2016-01-14 13:38:40] rapidtrades : micmix?
[2016-01-14 13:44:31] laisee : nice - can finally trade the long dated as opposed to simply hodling
[2016-01-14 13:47:45] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Arthur: shouldn't the premium decline with duration? right now u get more time decay per day if u short the june contract
[2016-01-14 13:52:17] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes you do but you also have more convexity risk
[2016-01-14 13:52:28] BitMEX_Arthur : the higher the +ve theta the higher the convexity risk
[2016-01-14 13:52:58] BitMEX_Arthur : theta powers gamma, if you want a better explanation i suggest you read the Hull book on derivatives, the chapter on options greeks is a must read
[2016-01-14 13:53:18] BitMEX_Arthur : i can't do an explanation justice in this chat
[2016-01-14 13:56:45] j8 : nice, top google search for 'hull derivatives' is a full pdf
[2016-01-14 13:59:02] Akaiapc40 : Sorry, i have a question...with the accula state of order book, if i Think that the price will touch 432, what i have to do. PLACE 432 and hit long or short?
[2016-01-14 13:59:26] Akaiapc40 : Actual*
[2016-01-14 14:00:15] BitMEX_Arthur : Akaiapc40: If you want to go long at a price of $432 submit a Buy or Bid order, if you want to go short submit a Sell or Ask order
[2016-01-14 14:02:29] Akaiapc40 : BitMEX_Arthur: Then 432 is my ENTRY price on the market, and from then i decide to go long if i Think the price go up, or short if i Think that go down?
[2016-01-14 14:05:56] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes
[2016-01-14 14:10:00] Akaiapc40 : BitMEX_Arthur: Ok done....opened a long position and now the price is higher than my entry price..how to exit trade?
[2016-01-14 14:13:06] BitMEX_Arthur : Sell the position in the equal number of contracts that you are long
[2016-01-14 14:14:29] Akaiapc40 : BitMEX_Arthur: many thanks
[2016-01-14 14:49:29] tscha : hull on derivatives = classic
[2016-01-14 16:22:39] zanza : should I short Yuan here?
[2016-01-14 16:27:19] arbitrage001 : If anyone know the answer for certainty, they would be rich
[2016-01-14 16:29:18] zanza : is anyone rich here?
[2016-01-14 16:30:08] sleger : you cant short yuan here, only btcusd
[2016-01-14 16:39:56] zanza : aww fuck, I thought xbU was Yuan (caus it has the U)
[2016-01-14 16:40:04] zanza : damn
[2016-01-14 16:44:15] tscha : same here. I thought I could short the DAX here because of the x
[2016-01-14 16:52:33] Akaiapc40 : tscha: lol
[2016-01-14 16:53:34] j8 : i thought this site was mexican because of the MEX
[2016-01-14 17:00:14] blackbird307 : LOL TROLLBOX
[2016-01-14 17:00:39] blackbird307 : Hey guys how do I increase margin from 5x to something higher like 10-15x?\\
[2016-01-14 17:02:46] sleger : you buy 2-3x more
[2016-01-14 17:07:00] blackbird307 : I am currently limited to purchasing 5x spot amount\
[2016-01-14 17:07:25] blackbird307 : for eth
[2016-01-14 17:07:50] blackbird307 : sorry, what I meant to ask is, how do I increase my leverage
[2016-01-14 17:10:59] sleger : eth has a limit of 5x
[2016-01-14 17:11:12] sleger : as written on the tab right night to "Every Friday"
[2016-01-14 17:19:11] justinlooking : i think the chart switching bug is back again
[2016-01-14 17:22:50] BitMEX_Sam : Not seeing it here
[2016-01-14 17:30:35] justinlooking : is reproducible here. steps: on /app/trade/XBT7D , do full refresh, wait for recent trades chart to load. switch product to ETH using blue dropdown at top, ETH7D chart loads as expected, but 10 seconds later it fades and comes back with the XBT chart
[2016-01-14 17:36:18] tscha : can't reproduce that on my machine (win7 + chrome)
[2016-01-14 17:37:25] tscha : but I also have a very minimalistic chart, maybe that's why
[2016-01-14 17:54:36] justinlooking : ah am using ff, can't recreate in chrome either, something else fucky going on with recent trades not updating in ff... will switch to chrome for now
[2016-01-14 18:04:38] BitMEX_Sam : I'll try it with FF.
[2016-01-14 18:06:46] BitMEX_Sam : justinlooking: I can't replicate either bug, what version of FF?
[2016-01-14 18:21:28] justinlooking : ice weasel 38 on debian sid (probably not a common enough combo to worry about) sry for wasting ur time
[2016-01-14 18:24:46] BitMEX_Sam : I'll try it out.
[2016-01-14 18:30:15] BitMEX_Sam : justinlooking: Not seeing it in IceCat 38.5.2 either
[2016-01-14 19:02:34] tscha : justinlooking: how was your flight lesson?
[2016-01-14 19:16:37] tscha : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67mRrp_KjM0&feature=youtu.be
[2016-01-14 19:38:22] zanza : interesting tscha
[2016-01-14 19:39:01] zanza : paypal itself is a payment processor, also essentially an escrow system as well
[2016-01-14 19:39:14] zanza : escrow system is needed for "trustless" transactions
[2016-01-14 20:06:49] zanza : the problem is, since there is no refunds with Bitcoin, paypal would have to hold funds for 10-20 until customer verifies they are happy. So it would be a slow cashout system. Also normally paypal has 6 month buyer protection policy, they would not be able to offer that with Bitcoin (even with 3% fees)
[2016-01-14 20:11:14] tscha : who says they will offer refunds on bitcoin payments?
[2016-01-14 20:11:41] tscha : and who says they will act as an escrow system in the context of bitcoin?
[2016-01-14 20:14:02] sleger : who says they will accept bitcoin ?
[2016-01-14 20:14:11] tscha : exactly
[2016-01-14 20:14:53] sleger : its been at least 12 hours that june and march "fair" price is above the ask
[2016-01-14 20:15:54] zanza : tscha: well, there is no point in paypal accepting payment if they offer no refunds, because then people can skip paypal completely (no advantage to using it). People use paypal because it is easy to use, accessible.
[2016-01-14 20:18:04] zanza : http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-01-14/how-switzerland-hopes-prevent-refugee-sex-attacks-cartoon
[2016-01-14 20:19:02] tscha : "because then people can skip paypal completely (no advantage to using it" You sure about that? So why are people paying with BTC via BitPay?
[2016-01-14 20:20:28] zanza : oh the braintree thing ...
[2016-01-14 20:21:17] zanza : as far as I know its no different than Coinbase/Circle/Bitpay
[2016-01-14 20:21:36] tscha : sleger: I guess this is because fair price was like 10 bucks beneath highest bid after drop due to the fact that long-term futures expect corrections, so they adjusted the rate.
[2016-01-14 20:24:03] tscha : mark price was like 591 when highest bid was 601
[2016-01-14 20:25:51] sleger : i was just saying it should be adjusted more often
[2016-01-14 20:35:34] tscha : yeah, but this doesn't actually solve the general issue that the mark price is far off at fast movements for long-term futures. Maybe using some kind of EMA spot price instead of the plain spot price could smoothen that.
[2016-01-14 20:36:32] sleger : i would just use spot + EMA (fut-spot)
[2016-01-14 20:36:53] sleger : because thats the premium we want to smoothen to avoid market manipulation / margin call cascade
[2016-01-14 20:44:02] sleger : using EMA of spot price is just the worst possible idea.
[2016-01-14 20:46:12] tscha : Your approach could work, but EMA has to have very low weights since liquidity is so low and fut is a direct parameter in the mark price.
[2016-01-14 20:46:20] tscha : How is it "the worst possible idea"?
[2016-01-14 20:46:32] sleger : you're just introducing lag in the spot price
[2016-01-14 20:46:40] tscha : exactly