This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2016-01-08 17:30:59] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 4000 @ 449.86
[2016-01-08 17:31:19] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 4000 @ 449.22
[2016-01-08 17:31:39] chromaticcr : rekt
[2016-01-08 18:04:55] rapidtrades : this place gets so quiet when we're dumping
[2016-01-08 18:06:12] Swedishnut : indeed but there is lots of dumping all over too. sp 1942
[2016-01-08 18:06:30] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT7D`: Sell 1000 @ 452.79
[2016-01-08 18:07:00] sleger : Swedishnut: sp has nothing to do with btc price
[2016-01-08 18:07:10] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 1000 @ 446.51
[2016-01-08 18:07:30] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 50 @ 446.20
[2016-01-08 18:08:31] rapidtrades : dam that's a nice discount...too bad I'm loaded
[2016-01-08 18:09:12] sleger : Damn i was too slow
[2016-01-08 18:09:47] justinlooking : tscha: i got pretty close with a js/css injection hack that sort of works in webkit https://gist.github.com/anonymous/cd8bef2f3d55a29694d0
[2016-01-08 18:13:39] tscha : justinlooking: hahaha you are a god
[2016-01-08 18:15:54] rapidtrades : btc-e leading this dump...not sure what it means but it's prolly not good for the bulls
[2016-01-08 18:16:25] tscha : http://imgur.com/1nXHjDQ
[2016-01-08 18:35:05] HowDoge : lols
[2016-01-08 18:54:03] zanza : BitStamp getting DDOS'd
[2016-01-08 18:59:41] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 1000 @ 449.33
[2016-01-08 18:59:41] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 2000 @ 449.78
[2016-01-08 19:00:08] rapidtrades : nice two side action
[2016-01-08 19:01:54] habibi : chopping :) and no btce is not leader
[2016-01-08 19:02:24] rapidtrades : famous last words b1tch
[2016-01-08 19:03:09] rapidtrades : you thought it was safe to say that after we moved up $3...but this isn't over yet
[2016-01-08 19:03:10] habibi : dont u think u are too offensive spoiled kid?
[2016-01-08 19:03:37] habibi : ofc its not, lets see if we can break 3000s again
[2016-01-08 19:18:37] zanza : 3000 down
[2016-01-08 19:18:43] zanza : 3130 is the big test right?
[2016-01-08 19:18:48] habibi : yep
[2016-01-08 19:18:56] habibi : 3050 a smaller one
[2016-01-08 19:19:12] habibi : rapidtrades: ;*
[2016-01-08 19:19:15] zanza : I think 3130 will break this time, but I do not have any positions
[2016-01-08 19:33:30] habibi : weekend
[2016-01-08 19:33:33] habibi : u have time dont worry
[2016-01-08 19:33:37] habibi : even if we do
[2016-01-08 20:28:02] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 25794 @ 451.97 **MEGA-REKT** :boom:
[2016-01-08 20:28:32] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 2 @ 452.03:punch: :whale:
[2016-01-08 20:33:32] habibi : rapidtrades: which one was urs :>? 2 or 25k?
[2016-01-08 20:56:09] habibi : anyone wanna sell some march around 530s?
[2016-01-08 21:05:03] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 15 @ 453.57
[2016-01-08 21:08:33] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 24115 @ 454.29 **MEGA-REKT** :boom:
[2016-01-08 21:10:03] habibi : lovely
[2016-01-08 21:12:00] Martinos : no :P
[2016-01-08 21:12:02] sleger : habibi: 540 if you want
[2016-01-08 21:12:29] habibi : sleger: 535 for good old friendship
[2016-01-08 21:12:44] sleger : no i dont really want to sell march anyways
[2016-01-08 21:12:52] habibi : 15 btc only?
[2016-01-08 21:13:12] sleger : at 540 if you want they are up
[2016-01-08 21:14:31] rapidtrades : finally some premium
[2016-01-08 21:14:35] habibi : if would lower it by 3.5 dollars i am going for it
[2016-01-08 21:16:01] sleger : dont really want to, so you can take it otherwise i will remove it soon no worries
[2016-01-08 21:17:08] habibi : nah thanks then
[2016-01-08 21:45:44] micmix : thanks guys for all the fills on H16 and M16, more panic plz :-)
[2016-01-08 21:45:44] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 85 @ 452.50
[2016-01-08 21:49:34] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 5000 @ 451.84
[2016-01-08 21:49:57] rapidtrades : micmix: got ur bids filed?
[2016-01-08 21:50:11] micmix : bids and asks
[2016-01-08 21:50:22] rapidtrades : lucky :)
[2016-01-08 21:50:46] micmix : it's not luck, it's algo trading :-)
[2016-01-08 21:51:18] rapidtrades : hope ur algo gets PCAIDS
[2016-01-08 21:52:24] micmix : PCAIDS (Proportionality-. Calibrated Almost Ideal Demand System)?
[2016-01-08 21:52:35] micmix : it's an interesting model
[2016-01-08 21:53:07] habibi : micmix: wanna sell maybe some march@535s?
[2016-01-08 21:53:08] rapidtrades : stock markets will close on lows, bonds at highs
[2016-01-08 21:53:12] rapidtrades : hell of a week
[2016-01-08 21:53:37] HowDoge : its going to be a nutts year for btc
[2016-01-08 21:53:39] rapidtrades : looks like another week of red coming up
[2016-01-08 21:56:27] micmix : habibi: I'm buying H16 atm
[2016-01-08 21:57:01] habibi : micmix: k
[2016-01-08 21:57:17] tscha : HowDoge: well, every year is nuts-year for btc
[2016-01-08 21:58:04] tscha : couldn't think of starting a year saying this is going to be chilly for btc
[2016-01-08 22:02:34] justinlooking : such wasted
[2016-01-08 22:02:38] justinlooking : very shitfaced
[2016-01-08 22:06:03] justinlooking : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siwpn14IE7E
[2016-01-08 22:08:06] justinlooking : upgrade ur openssl peeeps, latest advisory sounds scary
[2016-01-08 22:13:28] justinlooking : gf may be rekt, taking requests
[2016-01-08 22:16:08] justinlooking : not rekt, i am kill :/
[2016-01-08 22:21:50] tscha : justinlooking: hahaha
[2016-01-08 22:48:04] justinlooking : tscha: i an rekyt., i thibk it is shre tajkes reqeuests ojhb no at lewast vwe have no s haerpies
[2016-01-08 22:48:31] tscha : lol
[2016-01-08 22:48:46] tscha : you better not trade today :D
[2016-01-08 22:49:11] justinlooking : rapidtrades: please indicaceeeeeee setntiment
[2016-01-08 22:49:30] cataquil : bloody hell, markets shrugged off the NFP
[2016-01-08 22:49:44] cataquil : should have traded usdjpy today
[2016-01-08 22:49:53] justinlooking : cataquil: what was figure?
[2016-01-08 22:50:30] justinlooking : +292k
[2016-01-08 22:54:34] cataquil : above +200k expected
[2016-01-08 22:54:34] justinlooking : ok bed timne
[2016-01-08 22:55:06] cataquil : usually that would cause a rally but today just a whipsaw as sentiment was stronger than the data
[2016-01-08 23:07:34] cataquil : revisions higher for both October and November, with October being nudged up to +307k and November to +252k
[2016-01-08 23:08:36] cataquil : notice how gold has rallied since the year began, but silver has not
[2016-01-08 23:13:03] tscha : big market movement ahead
[2016-01-08 23:57:57] rapidtrades : hope so, long volatility here
[2016-01-09 00:17:53] tscha : hm, seems calm today
[2016-01-09 00:36:39] sleger : "tscha: big market movement ahead" and one hour later : "tscha: hm, seems calm today" ?
[2016-01-09 00:36:55] sleger : tscha: are 2 different people using your account for chat ?
[2016-01-09 00:38:51] mdrn : they check how many people are online at this time
[2016-01-09 00:39:00] mdrn : so by now we're 2
[2016-01-09 03:17:00] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 42203 @ 453.39 **MEGA-REKT** :boom:
[2016-01-09 03:20:32] micmix : nice liquidation
[2016-01-09 03:20:58] habibi : yea we have some crazy isolated guys here
[2016-01-09 03:21:05] habibi : i bet some of them dont know about cross
[2016-01-09 03:24:53] arbitrage001 : could be a hedge position which they dont care
[2016-01-09 03:26:28] micmix : I don't mind liquidations, more fills for me :-) Just don't want ppl to go broke and leave the site forever
[2016-01-09 03:27:18] habibi : micmix: thats my point
[2016-01-09 03:27:21] habibi : if they loose too fast
[2016-01-09 03:27:37] micmix : or even worse, stop using bitcoin altogether :-(
[2016-01-09 03:27:39] habibi : they wont come again, if they loose slowly/earns as well, they will keep trying
[2016-01-09 03:29:14] micmix : yes, that's why isolated is on by default: to protect accounts from being completely wiped on margin call
[2016-01-09 03:29:45] habibi : what if still they use whole account?
[2016-01-09 03:29:48] micmix : but you can't help ppl who go all in on 100x
[2016-01-09 03:30:08] micmix : there is nothing BitMEX can do :-(
[2016-01-09 03:30:13] habibi : yep, helping them is taking their money from their pocket to ours basically
[2016-01-09 03:31:21] habibi : but bitmex still should think about some initial limits and so, just to protect their own bussiness- wont get much money from one order suiciders
[2016-01-09 03:32:02] micmix : yeah, at least show a warning when someone goes all in on 100x
[2016-01-09 03:32:55] micmix : showing something like "you will lose 1.3btc when the price moves up by $2" should be scary enough
[2016-01-09 03:35:07] habibi : true
[2016-01-09 03:42:48] j8 : sold at least a dollar below index too.. could easily have been liquidated with no movement in spot
[2016-01-09 03:46:30] micmix : yeah, using full 100x is scary as hell
[2016-01-09 03:59:08] ethexio : whee
[2016-01-09 04:11:01] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 1000 @ 449.33
[2016-01-09 04:11:01] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT7D`: Sell 250 @ 454.39
[2016-01-09 04:14:41] manchstr_untd1 : holee shit
[2016-01-09 04:20:31] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT7D`: Sell 4000 @ 452.21
[2016-01-09 05:34:08] ethexio : whee
[2016-01-09 05:48:56] habibi : march keeps strong
[2016-01-09 05:51:02] manchstr_untd1 : ugh
[2016-01-09 05:51:15] manchstr_untd1 : bulls letting the bears finish formations
[2016-01-09 06:32:29] JDUB99 : whos the 75 contract bot on xbu?
[2016-01-09 06:32:52] JDUB99 : keeps changing his orders！
[2016-01-09 06:52:32] manchstr_untd1 : like watching paint dry when it does this after a move
[2016-01-09 06:56:48] JDUB99 : people watching bots watching people watching bots
[2016-01-09 06:57:18] Swedishnut : shhh you will spook the excitement right out of the grass growing near the paint drying
[2016-01-09 07:06:45] ethexio : PBOC says buy, everything A-OK
[2016-01-09 07:18:35] Swedishnut : sure Morty
[2016-01-09 07:28:45] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 59 @ 450.84
[2016-01-09 08:18:54] zanza : "Liquidation Price" I think covers that
[2016-01-09 10:04:08] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 39 @ 448.42
[2016-01-09 11:03:46] macios15 : whats set fee
[2016-01-09 12:41:59] HowDoge : is the BIX down for anyone else?
[2016-01-09 12:46:24] rapidtrades : whats bix
[2016-01-09 12:47:21] sleger : www.bixrestaurant.com
[2016-01-09 12:54:27] HowDoge : bitcoinindex
[2016-01-09 12:54:54] rapidtrades : bitcoin index restaurant? never heard of it
[2016-01-09 13:05:35] laisee : serves whale burgers and humble pie for dessert
[2016-01-09 13:30:42] tan2016 : this is my first try of bitmex...
[2016-01-09 13:34:29] tscha : tan2016: heyho
[2016-01-09 13:34:46] tscha : tan2016: make sure you read the faq+guides
[2016-01-09 13:34:58] tan2016 : yes,,, I will
[2016-01-09 13:37:04] tan2016 : tscha: tnx
[2016-01-09 14:07:13] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 20 @ 448.21
[2016-01-09 14:16:19] tan2016 : REKT: is it accurate?
[2016-01-09 14:18:05] thehawthorne : It is a bot showing liquidations in chat
[2016-01-09 14:19:27] laisee : same liquidations data also available via twitter - @rektbitmex
[2016-01-09 14:40:19] rapidtrades : need bigger discount to buy
[2016-01-09 14:40:31] habibi : anyone wanna sell some march around fair price?
[2016-01-09 14:44:19] j8 : yes
[2016-01-09 14:45:09] j8 : i'll put some asks
[2016-01-09 14:46:15] habibi : 2500@529 :)?
[2016-01-09 14:46:57] j8 : done, because you asked nicely ;)
[2016-01-09 14:47:31] habibi : Ty, hope u get profits :) i just closed my short
[2016-01-09 14:47:49] j8 : yeah, it's all part of a bigger picture for me.
[2016-01-09 14:47:53] habibi : with a little loss, but didnt feel comfortable with that :)
[2016-01-09 14:48:48] j8 : closing long too so it's no risk
[2016-01-09 14:49:52] habibi : j8: u could eat that 126 that left :) anyway thanks,\see u later
[2016-01-09 15:31:56] rapidtrades : btc-e still leading the way down...not good
[2016-01-09 16:17:05] blackwhite : Guys, what does this PBOC mean? Do they have xbt in reserve or what?
[2016-01-09 16:18:22] blackwhite : 16k of XBT24H under spot. very interesting what awaits us.
[2016-01-09 16:23:29] rapidtrades : blackwhite: ya
[2016-01-09 16:23:36] rapidtrades : tons of coin
[2016-01-09 19:16:26] SnackyCoins : blackwhite: PBOC = public bank of china
[2016-01-09 19:17:10] SnackyCoins : they have been and will continue to actively devalue the yuan
[2016-01-09 19:17:24] SnackyCoins : since btc is mostly priced in china, that matters
[2016-01-09 19:50:09] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 500 @ 451.84
[2016-01-09 19:54:09] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 122 @ 452.95
[2016-01-09 21:00:41] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 20000 @ 450.30 **MEGA-REKT** :boom:
[2016-01-09 21:47:59] zanza : heya
[2016-01-09 21:48:25] zanza : is `MEGA-REKT` the highest order of REKT?
[2016-01-09 22:01:16] Swedishnut : I think there is one more above it.
[2016-01-09 22:02:08] Swedishnut : it is like Tyrannosaurus Rekt.
[2016-01-09 22:02:58] tscha : 1 dollar negative premium, interesting
[2016-01-09 22:04:34] zanza : haha yeah rememebr that. I think its 50000 threshold?
[2016-01-09 22:05:20] zanza : Tyrannosaurus Rekt = DPE RIP
[2016-01-09 22:07:32] tscha : biggest I saw was 200k+
[2016-01-09 22:37:05] deadcatbounce : I bought some 24 Jun XBT contracts (XBTM16) - I realised some PNL, but now I got a negative Unrealised PNL, can someone explain me that please?
[2016-01-09 22:42:59] sleger : the price went down
[2016-01-09 22:47:59] deadcatbounce : yes but the price is way higher than my entry
[2016-01-09 22:51:18] micmix : deadcatbounce: your position was rebalanced on Friday to the mark price. all unrealized PNL became realized. the price went down since Friday, so you have some negative unrealized PNL now.
[2016-01-09 22:52:02] micmix : deadcatbounce: you are still in green if you add realized plus unrealized PNL if your entry price is lower than mark price.
[2016-01-09 22:53:47] micmix : zanza: the highest is **REKTosaurus** 100k+
[2016-01-09 22:55:43] micmix : the largest liquidation since I started tracking was 220k, second largest 166k
[2016-01-09 22:56:53] micmix : and I'm talking to myself as usual :-)
[2016-01-09 22:58:26] tscha : micmix: I am listening :D
[2016-01-09 22:59:10] deadcatbounce : micmix, when is the mark price modified please?
[2016-01-09 23:00:13] micmix : audience of one is infinitely better than audience of zero :relieved:
[2016-01-09 23:03:29] micmix : deadcatbounce: mark price changes all the time. it is spot price plus fair basis. fair basis rate is 86% per year currently.
[2016-01-09 23:04:24] micmix : basically mark price is the expected price of bitcoin when the contract settles
[2016-01-09 23:06:25] micmix : https://blog.bitmex.com/bitcoin-futures-basis-trading-lesson-1/
[2016-01-09 23:06:44] deadcatbounce : what happened friday then?
[2016-01-09 23:09:19] micmix : every friday unrealized PNL on long-term contracts is added to realized PNL and unrealized PNL is reset to 0. it's done to allow you to withdraw or re-invest profits without waiting for settlement
[2016-01-09 23:09:38] deadcatbounce : alright.. th
[2016-01-09 23:09:45] deadcatbounce : thank you*
[2016-01-09 23:10:31] micmix : you're welcome and happy trading! don't forget to fill my bids and asks :-)
[2016-01-09 23:16:15] manchstr_untd1 : 404 bounce not found
[2016-01-09 23:46:03] manchstr_untd1 : wow
[2016-01-09 23:48:35] tscha : very weird
[2016-01-09 23:50:17] tscha : ok, that explains the buying here
[2016-01-09 23:53:04] tscha : meh, i'm off, too lazy to trade today.. cya folks
[2016-01-09 23:58:57] micmix : bye tscha
[2016-01-10 00:30:42] manchstr_untd1 : wth we dumping on no volume
[2016-01-10 00:31:10] manchstr_untd1 : how many times we need to hit 50%
[2016-01-10 00:32:02] sleger : 50%?
[2016-01-10 00:34:14] manchstr_untd1 : retrace
[2016-01-10 00:35:45] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 17185 @ 447.65 **MEGA-REKT** :boom:
[2016-01-10 00:35:55] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT7D`: Sell 2 @ 450.36:punch: :whale:
[2016-01-10 00:36:31] manchstr_untd1 : good lord
[2016-01-10 00:36:39] habibi : fastest 0.7 btc ever
[2016-01-10 00:37:22] manchstr_untd1 : god fucking damnit
[2016-01-10 00:37:33] manchstr_untd1 : fucking bull shit
[2016-01-10 00:43:21] habibi : micmix: u should increase mega rekt req min contracts :p or u have programmed sth bigger then "mega rekt" ?
[2016-01-10 00:48:09] sleger : scroll up a bit
[2016-01-10 00:51:58] manchstr_untd1 : goooooooood lord
[2016-01-10 00:53:05] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT7D`: Sell 4 @ 448.73:punch: :whale:
[2016-01-10 00:53:35] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 800 @ 444.30
[2016-01-10 00:54:35] manchstr_untd1 : aeirdhjgkjeshdfg;okedfg
[2016-01-10 01:04:39] glassbunker : rip
[2016-01-10 01:43:51] manchstr_untd1 : bounce gawd dammit
[2016-01-10 01:44:05] manchstr_untd1 : tired of fucking selling to avoid lidq
[2016-01-10 01:44:23] sleger : then get liquidated please ?
[2016-01-10 01:44:32] manchstr_untd1 : no thx
[2016-01-10 01:44:59] sleger : it will happen anyways
[2016-01-10 01:45:06] manchstr_untd1 : k
[2016-01-10 01:45:39] sleger : whats your current leverage ?
[2016-01-10 01:53:47] micmix : habibi: there is **MEGA-REKT** **EPIC REKT** and **REKTosaurus**
[2016-01-10 01:54:48] micmix : we only had 2 **REKTosaurus** so far
[2016-01-10 01:55:00] habibi : ah yea :) 150k+ ones ;p?
[2016-01-10 01:55:53] micmix : yes, 220k and 166k. we had a bunch of epic 45k+
[2016-01-10 01:56:26] habibi : yea love the way people go full in and loose it at random move 2-3$
[2016-01-10 01:57:14] sleger : you'll love it less when this system creates DPE for people who might not even have a position against them at this time
[2016-01-10 01:58:33] micmix : it's not as bad, we only had 3 days of DPE as far as I remember. okc had more but their clawback is lower %
[2016-01-10 01:59:18] micmix : as an algo trader I would prefer automatic de-leveraging but I can understand BitMEX point of view
[2016-01-10 02:15:59] sleger : micmix: every single smart trader I know (I know a lot) doesnt understand DPE logic
[2016-01-10 02:16:11] sleger : Of course auto deleveraging is 100% more rational
[2016-01-10 02:16:25] sleger : nobody has been able to give any argument why its not better.
[2016-01-10 02:30:27] j8 : on balance i'd probably prefer it too. but for the sake of argument: it requires some effort from the trader. everyone would need a bot, DPE is all automatic
[2016-01-10 02:30:56] micmix : the main argument is "okc does it, so that's what bitcoin traders expect" :-)
[2016-01-10 02:32:12] micmix : but I agree with j8, regular traders will have to adjust their positions manually after every deleveraging
[2016-01-10 02:33:24] SnackyCoins : deleveraging is impossible in this mkt
[2016-01-10 02:34:13] SnackyCoins : 1) we move too fast 2) the exchange has a high probability of not being able to fill the portion of your position it is trying to remove from you
[2016-01-10 02:34:21] micmix : plus the system has to select who is going to be deleveraged and by how much. and when the liquidation is eaten on a pullback, should the system re-leverage everyone who was de-leveraged? what should happen if someone already adjusted position?
[2016-01-10 02:35:08] SnackyCoins : sledger come on. you are a contentious troll but you aren't stupid
[2016-01-10 02:36:40] SnackyCoins : if you dont like DPE there is XBU or even bitfinex :) which come with appropriate margin ofc
[2016-01-10 02:37:07] sleger : j8: ok i think this argument is worth 0, because auto deleveraging is also automatic. When there is DPE and you have position opposite liq order you are also deleveraged, think about it
[2016-01-10 02:37:23] sleger : micmix: same comment then
[2016-01-10 02:37:40] sleger : SnackyCoins: clearly you dont understand the difference
[2016-01-10 02:37:48] SnackyCoins : sledger you are only viewing this issue from the POV of the trader
[2016-01-10 02:38:06] SnackyCoins : the DPE is here to protect the exchange
[2016-01-10 02:38:12] SnackyCoins : and vicariously, everyone
[2016-01-10 02:38:46] SnackyCoins : dpe insures the exchange is never on the hook for unresolved contracts at settlement
[2016-01-10 02:38:52] SnackyCoins : in fiatland, they come sue you
[2016-01-10 02:38:54] j8 : sleger: depends if the liquidation clears eventually. if there's no retrace by the time of expiry then yeah
[2016-01-10 02:38:58] SnackyCoins : you can't sue people in bitcoin
[2016-01-10 02:39:02] sleger : micmix: on your "xx.34" time comment : when there is liq that cant be filled against market, then auto deleveraging is proportional deleveraging of all opposite trader position, super simple
[2016-01-10 02:39:19] j8 : but probably 95% of the time it does clear
[2016-01-10 02:39:25] sleger : SnackyCoins: same for auto deleveraging, once again you dont know what you're talking about
[2016-01-10 02:40:03] sleger : j8: i can also go to a vegas casino and win with 95% probability, but that doesnt make it a good strategy....
[2016-01-10 02:40:30] j8 : sleger: my original point stands.
[2016-01-10 02:40:58] sleger : j8: not more than with DPE no
[2016-01-10 02:41:09] j8 : people's positions would be adjusted far more often than there is DPE at settlement
[2016-01-10 02:41:42] sleger : if market crashes, im short, price going down, there is dpe because some huge long got rekt, then you're not as short as you think you are, because as market goes down dpe increases
[2016-01-10 02:41:50] habibi : when auto deleveraging goes on, what is the leverage of new positions?
[2016-01-10 02:41:56] sleger : just spend some time try to think about it
[2016-01-10 02:42:04] j8 : seriously, i get that.
[2016-01-10 02:42:06] micmix : sleger: yes, and what happens after de-leveraging when the liq clears? auto re-leveraging? I'm not saying that the system is impossible to design, I'm just saying it's going to be more difficult for regular traders to understand and manage
[2016-01-10 02:42:20] sleger : micmix: there is no liq order that clears
[2016-01-10 02:42:41] sleger : liq order get executed at market and then against all open positions as pro rata
[2016-01-10 02:42:55] SnackyCoins : oh dear god
[2016-01-10 02:42:58] sleger : there is never any open liq order, which makes total sense
[2016-01-10 02:43:02] SnackyCoins : can you even imagine the wicking that would cause here
[2016-01-10 02:43:09] habibi : so big long rekt
[2016-01-10 02:43:11] j8 : dump, bounce, dump - no DPE and everyone still has their profitable shorts
[2016-01-10 02:43:24] habibi : getting executed down way thru orderbook
[2016-01-10 02:43:25] j8 : even though there was an unfilled liq on the first dump
[2016-01-10 02:43:26] SnackyCoins : you realize there could easily be not enough orders on the book to satisfy a market close liq right?
[2016-01-10 02:43:29] sleger : micmix: yes its more complicated for average people to understand hence some of the comments here right now...
[2016-01-10 02:43:30] SnackyCoins : where do you think you are?
[2016-01-10 02:43:34] habibi : on bitmex that means even to 1$
[2016-01-10 02:43:49] micmix : ok, with market liq orders everyone is totaly screwed except couple of MMs like sleger :-)
[2016-01-10 02:43:56] sleger : SnackyCoins: obviously i understnad, but you're clueless
[2016-01-10 02:44:07] manchstr_untd1 : obviously
[2016-01-10 02:44:15] sleger : micmix: of course not, its only fair
[2016-01-10 02:44:20] habibi : liq orders thru market here is the worst option can be done
[2016-01-10 02:44:22] habibi : ever.
[2016-01-10 02:44:23] habibi : ever.
[2016-01-10 02:44:27] SnackyCoins : ^
[2016-01-10 02:44:40] sleger : https://www.bitvc.com/help/catlist?id=21
[2016-01-10 02:44:49] sleger : and click on automatic deleveraging
[2016-01-10 02:45:05] habibi : i mean yea, i would found it pretty profitable still to get order 100-300$ under the spot
[2016-01-10 02:45:13] sleger : but the logic is perfect
[2016-01-10 02:45:27] sleger : just most people cant understand it unfortunately
[2016-01-10 02:45:39] SnackyCoins : thats why bitvc is #1 right
[2016-01-10 02:45:53] sleger : no but that s not why they're not
[2016-01-10 02:46:18] sleger : thats just another clueless comment
[2016-01-10 02:47:10] sleger : with DPE you're already getting automatic deleveraging when there is a liq order far away, but the system is hiding it from you
[2016-01-10 02:47:31] j8 : sleger: but it happens at settlement. thats the difference
[2016-01-10 02:47:50] SnackyCoins : and it doesn't require market closes
[2016-01-10 02:47:51] j8 : and many times when there would have been deleveraging, there's no DPE
[2016-01-10 02:47:54] sleger : and you're just hoping bitmex manages the order right so that you dont lose too much money if you happen to be in the green, but thats not the role of an exchange
[2016-01-10 02:48:12] j8 : sleger: that's the argument - it's automatic
[2016-01-10 02:48:19] sleger : j8: but you can select auto releverage if the exchange has it
[2016-01-10 02:48:56] micmix : sleger: I agree with that part but I was tracking liq orders and sometimes BitMEX makes good money by managing liq orders. They wouldn't want to give it up
[2016-01-10 02:49:01] sleger : Look everyone who still doesnt get it, im just gonna give you one simple example and then you can explain me :
[2016-01-10 02:49:02] SnackyCoins : since i'm so clueless let me ask you a different question. your argument in favor of auto-deleveraging so far has been "they
[2016-01-10 02:49:05] SnackyCoins : 're the same"
[2016-01-10 02:49:15] SnackyCoins : so if they're so similar, why do you hate dpe
[2016-01-10 02:49:41] SnackyCoins : let me hear an argument against DPE that your solution fixes
[2016-01-10 02:50:10] sleger : I buy at 450 sell at 451 for some size, make 1btc profit on 7D. Then I'm flat and dont do anything for 6 days but market goes crazy and there is 50% dpe because of someone who get 50x leverage and get rekt, therefore I lose 0.5 btc, is it fair ?
[2016-01-10 02:50:36] sleger : SnackyCoins: my argument is in the example above.
[2016-01-10 02:51:03] habibi : sleger: so thats how u trade? or u care about sunday traders?
[2016-01-10 02:51:03] SnackyCoins : thanks. that's not a horrible argument
[2016-01-10 02:51:17] j8 : that's probably the best argument. i hate that
[2016-01-10 02:51:28] sleger : i have 10 more arguments like that
[2016-01-10 02:51:30] SnackyCoins : the solution there would be to make that trade on 24h
[2016-01-10 02:51:45] sleger : SnackyCoins: thats such a stupid comment
[2016-01-10 02:51:46] j8 : sleger: why don't you say them instead of insulting everyone's intelligence?
[2016-01-10 02:52:03] sleger : reproduce my example with a 1 hour trade and then nothing for 23 hours but market goes crazy after my 1 hour trade...
[2016-01-10 02:52:04] SnackyCoins : yeah yeah. it might not have been available there
[2016-01-10 02:52:17] SnackyCoins : or have any part of some more complex strategy
[2016-01-10 02:52:19] sleger : j8: i just gave one
[2016-01-10 02:52:27] sleger : isnt that enough ?
[2016-01-10 02:52:33] j8 : sleger: 10 more please
[2016-01-10 02:52:37] sleger : nope
[2016-01-10 02:52:40] habibi : just 6
[2016-01-10 02:53:08] SnackyCoins : really it's not that good of an argument
[2016-01-10 02:53:16] sleger : when i said that everybody attacked me, i just give one obvious stupid example and nobody cant say anything against it
[2016-01-10 02:53:16] SnackyCoins : i'd say it is fair to take it even after you've been flat
[2016-01-10 02:53:34] SnackyCoins : because you are getting to play with the leverage regardless of how long you are in market
[2016-01-10 02:53:49] rapidtrades : its never fair to take my profit u dirty commie
[2016-01-10 02:53:57] SnackyCoins : your 1h long trade could be the whole reason DPE happens on a contract to begin with
[2016-01-10 02:54:05] rapidtrades : my leverage rarely if ever goes above 10/1
[2016-01-10 02:54:06] sleger : SnackyCoins: then you should be against settlement every friday of quaterly contracts, because thats indirectly what it does
[2016-01-10 02:54:17] rapidtrades : im now at 2/1
[2016-01-10 02:55:00] rapidtrades : on almost all sites im below 3/1
[2016-01-10 02:55:03] sleger : automatic deleveraging is actually dpe with constant "deliveries"
[2016-01-10 02:55:36] micmix : sleger: yes, that's a good way to describe it
[2016-01-10 02:55:37] sleger : so why is it ok to do it once a week but not once every hour ?
[2016-01-10 02:56:03] sleger : micmix: of course, i was trying to get people to understand by themselves but it seems impossible
[2016-01-10 02:56:12] SnackyCoins : sleger: because now i have to be at the computer 24/7
[2016-01-10 02:56:22] SnackyCoins : or set up an alarm to notify me i've been deleveraged
[2016-01-10 02:56:30] rapidtrades : yeah DPE only the traders during the crazy action....some of us know when to stay out but can't control what happens after we close the trade..
[2016-01-10 02:56:50] sleger : SnackyCoins: same with DPE, if market dips through a liq order you are deleveraged with a call option
[2016-01-10 02:56:55] sleger : you just dont understand it
[2016-01-10 02:57:15] SnackyCoins : so then we're back to earlier point, how to re-leverage
[2016-01-10 02:57:27] SnackyCoins : i can re-leverage manually once a week now
[2016-01-10 02:57:27] rapidtrades : does automatic delevaraging hit the most leveraged traders first?
[2016-01-10 02:57:37] sleger : automatic, you click a box, auto releverage or not
[2016-01-10 02:57:42] sleger : like bitvc does
[2016-01-10 02:57:52] SnackyCoins : at what price do i re-leverage?
[2016-01-10 02:57:55] sleger : "SnackyCoins: i can re-leverage manually once a week now"
[2016-01-10 02:58:02] sleger : i bet you dont do it
[2016-01-10 02:58:11] sleger : because you hadnt understood that part before i said it
[2016-01-10 02:58:27] sleger : and for your question, cf bitvc
[2016-01-10 02:58:33] SnackyCoins : no, i'm trying to understand it.
[2016-01-10 02:59:18] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 2041 @ 446.22
[2016-01-10 02:59:21] sleger : by the time i thought people would just trust me than doubt me
[2016-01-10 02:59:44] SnackyCoins : that is difficult when you have built this contentous troll persona 8)
[2016-01-10 03:00:13] sleger : for 24h there is no partial settlement so when dpe you are auto deleveraged, and nobody understands it, sad...
[2016-01-10 03:00:14] SnackyCoins : so what, does vc re-leverage with market orders too?
[2016-01-10 03:00:22] habibi : yea kinda person i dont like on family meetings :)
[2016-01-10 03:00:37] habibi : even u have right on ur side :)
[2016-01-10 03:00:42] sleger : i dont fit the troll definition, because im extremely smart and right, its not because you make fun of other people that you're a troll
[2016-01-10 03:01:02] sleger : and i know the difference between their, they're and there...
[2016-01-10 03:01:04] SnackyCoins : lol, i'll agree with you there. instead that just makes you an asshole
[2016-01-10 03:01:07] SnackyCoins : i was trying to be nice ;)
[2016-01-10 03:01:18] sleger : being an asshole is ok with me
[2016-01-10 03:01:54] sleger : it's sad that finance people (like the ceo) doesnt understand what i've explained though
[2016-01-10 03:02:22] SnackyCoins : does bitvc auto-re-leverage with market orders as well?
[2016-01-10 03:02:32] sleger : you have an option to do so
[2016-01-10 03:02:45] SnackyCoins : is it that or "do not releverage"?
[2016-01-10 03:02:50] SnackyCoins : are those the options?
[2016-01-10 03:02:52] sleger : i dont use it though, it does happen sometimes but only tiny % of your position
[2016-01-10 03:03:09] j8 : sleger: it's really unknown how well it would work on this 100x market. and it depends a lot on the implementation
[2016-01-10 03:03:15] sleger : i have never had more than 5% of my position closed
[2016-01-10 03:03:36] sleger : j8: yes, but i dont think its the exchange role to gamble with our money
[2016-01-10 03:03:47] SnackyCoins : i think arthur is correct in his assessment that market orders are bad in the current state of bitcoin trading.
[2016-01-10 03:03:50] sleger : which is what they're doing with the liq "Algo"
[2016-01-10 03:04:09] sleger : SnackyCoins: i dont disagree with that statement
[2016-01-10 03:04:14] rapidtrades : SnackyCoins: market orders are never bad
[2016-01-10 03:04:32] SnackyCoins : the only place that can pull it off is bitfinex, and they have 3x leverage appropriately
[2016-01-10 03:04:35] sleger : thats not true in an illiquid market
[2016-01-10 03:04:50] rapidtrades : we're one runway loss from abolishing clawbacks
[2016-01-10 03:05:12] SnackyCoins : rapid, i am sure i am 80-90% taker orders. and i'd still never use market
[2016-01-10 03:05:16] rapidtrades : the only reason it worked so far its cos btc stayed in range past two yrs
[2016-01-10 03:05:36] SnackyCoins : just watch the orderbook. you can see 3-4$ worth of orders vanish for seconds at a time before the bots put them back
[2016-01-10 03:05:43] sleger : 200x leverage (yes its 200, not 100) is stupidely insane
[2016-01-10 03:05:47] SnackyCoins : if you hit market anything in that moment, you'd be hard fucked
[2016-01-10 03:06:28] rapidtrades : and llike I've argued before, those spikes lower will be met with buyers
[2016-01-10 03:06:46] SnackyCoins : so you want illiquid wicky action
[2016-01-10 03:06:51] SnackyCoins : 796 is still open
[2016-01-10 03:06:54] j8 : the only good thing about 100x is it attracts shitty traders
[2016-01-10 03:07:07] rapidtrades : seen it happen on btc-e plenty of times...u get that spike down once per year and the orderbooks suddenly fatten up...ppl adjust, they're not stupid
[2016-01-10 03:07:14] sleger : SnackyCoins: what do you think is the default risk at 796
[2016-01-10 03:07:26] SnackyCoins : sleger their books are thinner is my point
[2016-01-10 03:07:40] sleger : i know, i still make there
[2016-01-10 03:07:43] SnackyCoins : i could have said houbi (but they've fattened up lately_
[2016-01-10 03:08:08] sleger : but im thinking about reducing funds there as they will disappear at some point
[2016-01-10 03:08:25] rapidtrades : Also u could argue that the fear of DPE makes traders unwilling to trade during volatile times...why try to catch that spike down when u could get clawed 30%?
[2016-01-10 03:08:39] SnackyCoins : 796 has been on my 'next to die' list for a looooong time. never even been hacked afaik
[2016-01-10 03:09:19] SnackyCoins : not that they'd come out and say it
[2016-01-10 03:09:19] rapidtrades : So DPE could be contributing to thinner orderbooks
[2016-01-10 03:09:36] sleger : rapidtrades: i dont think so
[2016-01-10 03:09:47] sleger : i think its just very unfair and stupid though
[2016-01-10 03:10:41] rapidtrades : idk man, I've gotten very careful with my trades here since those 2 clawbacks..it's always on the back of my mind, especilly if I'm short here
[2016-01-10 03:11:16] sleger : yes short is more risky with clawbacks
[2016-01-10 03:11:37] sleger : Also why futures *should* trade at a premium
[2016-01-10 03:11:47] rapidtrades : so its possible that DPE makes the long/short dis-balance even worse...exacerbating the crashes
[2016-01-10 03:11:48] SnackyCoins : I still may prefer DPE, but thanks for explaining the alternatives
[2016-01-10 03:11:50] micmix : I can't believe my eyes, sleger is talking to rapidtrades :-)
[2016-01-10 03:12:10] j8 : and nobody's insulting anyone :)
[2016-01-10 03:12:23] rapidtrades : yeah he's been nice to me past few days...dunno what's up with that :)
[2016-01-10 03:12:38] sleger : It only depends on what I read
[2016-01-10 03:12:51] sleger : And thats true for anyone
[2016-01-10 03:13:28] sleger : rapidtrades: dont forget you still have to call me "baller sledger" for a few days
[2016-01-10 03:13:39] SnackyCoins : ^ lol
[2016-01-10 03:14:15] rapidtrades : that's only when I address u directly baller sledger which I have been cleverly avoiding to do until now :)
[2016-01-10 03:14:40] sleger : ahah ok, you've only done it once before
[2016-01-10 03:15:18] rapidtrades : lol he's counting :)
[2016-01-10 03:15:19] sleger : micmix: you've been selling march too right ?
[2016-01-10 03:20:31] micmix : I have offers on both sides but mostly long now
[2016-01-10 03:21:05] micmix : I've been selling XBTM16
[2016-01-10 03:24:50] micmix : sleger: btw, I should be getting approval to play with 100btc worth of risk on Monday. not going to go full on right away but will try more stuff here
[2016-01-10 03:25:13] rapidtrades : mmmm 100 btc
[2016-01-10 03:26:14] micmix : to safely play with 100 btc worth of risk you need maybe 20 coins at most, that's not a lot
[2016-01-10 03:26:41] SnackyCoins : you trading on behalf of a company mix?
[2016-01-10 03:27:02] rapidtrades : he's representing Goldman Sachs
[2016-01-10 03:27:15] micmix : no comment, let just say I'm not alone
[2016-01-10 03:28:35] micmix : rapidtrades: I wish ;-)
[2016-01-10 03:28:45] SnackyCoins : yes obviously sachs. i was more curious on the selection of exchange, was why i asked ;)
[2016-01-10 03:29:29] sleger : micmix: cool
[2016-01-10 03:29:52] micmix : SnackyCoins: need to spread the risks, one exchange is never a good idea
[2016-01-10 03:29:58] sleger : micmix: yes i agree, i rarely go above x5 leverage
[2016-01-10 03:30:12] SnackyCoins : wasn't meaning to pry on the organization, it just struck me slightly odd that you'd wind up here, specifically
[2016-01-10 03:30:24] SnackyCoins : neat though
[2016-01-10 03:30:32] sleger : and that's also why i trade here, bfx 0kcoin, obi, bitvc, 796 and some others
[2016-01-10 03:31:08] rapidtrades : what's obi
[2016-01-10 03:31:13] sleger : huobi
[2016-01-10 03:31:17] rapidtrades : ah
[2016-01-10 03:31:27] SnackyCoins : yeah ofc you can't keep all your coins in one place, or get goxxed. I'm just glad bitmex is "cool enough" ;)
[2016-01-10 03:31:35] micmix : yep, same here, spreading the risks
[2016-01-10 03:31:54] sleger : im just mentioning the exchanges that people have mentioned here recently as i dont like using one exchange's chat to advertise for other exchanges
[2016-01-10 03:32:19] micmix : it's not advertisement if you say that BitMEX is the best :-)
[2016-01-10 03:32:21] sleger : SnackyCoins: i consider bitmex a pretty safe place to keep coins probably more than 0kcoin for instance
[2016-01-10 03:32:36] SnackyCoins : i always be sure to cast other exchanges mentioned here in a slightly negative light, don't want any cash to leave the table ;)
[2016-01-10 03:32:57] sleger : micmix: they have the best technology, but they lack some business knowledge
[2016-01-10 03:33:25] SnackyCoins : i agree, i prefer to keep the larger portion of my stack here.
[2016-01-10 03:33:41] SnackyCoins : but i based that decision based on community visibility of the operators
[2016-01-10 03:33:52] micmix : I mostly care about order flow and price volatility
[2016-01-10 03:33:55] SnackyCoins : which bitmex is #1 at, imo
[2016-01-10 03:34:05] sleger : yes, regulation of the country, company registered etc...
[2016-01-10 03:34:17] rapidtrades : is bitmex regulated?
[2016-01-10 03:34:23] sleger : safest is gemini no doubt
[2016-01-10 03:34:32] rapidtrades : f*ck gemini
[2016-01-10 03:34:38] sleger : bitmex is HK registered company
[2016-01-10 03:34:53] rapidtrades : so no would be the short answer
[2016-01-10 03:34:58] sleger : gemini has fdic insured funds (up to 250k $, hard to beat)
[2016-01-10 03:35:07] SnackyCoins : afiak only dealing with americans gets you regulatiors at this point in the game
[2016-01-10 03:35:17] SnackyCoins : sure that will change
[2016-01-10 03:35:24] sleger : rapidtrades: at least owners are known, i know who to sue)
[2016-01-10 03:35:33] micmix : bitmex is seychelles offshore, the most notorious offshore jurisdiction
[2016-01-10 03:35:44] rapidtrades : sleger: and u don't know the owners for okc?
[2016-01-10 03:35:54] rapidtrades : I thought only btc-e had the shadow owners
[2016-01-10 03:36:03] SnackyCoins : good luck suing china
[2016-01-10 03:36:06] sleger : its chinese so that doesnt help me, china is known not to help in this kind of lawsuit
[2016-01-10 03:36:17] rapidtrades : ...it's also in HK
[2016-01-10 03:36:25] sleger : rapidtrades: i have never put 1 cent in btce
[2016-01-10 03:36:52] sleger : but i do believe that as long as they make $ they will have an honest business
[2016-01-10 03:37:29] rapidtrades : I avoided btc-e for 1 year but it's the only one that doesn't get caught up in euphoria buying
[2016-01-10 03:37:58] sleger : yes but dont they have some metatrader leveraged connection ? that s super risky !
[2016-01-10 03:38:02] rapidtrades : hard to get in long when futures trade at $20-$30 premium
[2016-01-10 03:38:15] SnackyCoins : is there leverage on btce?
[2016-01-10 03:38:24] rapidtrades : sleger: how is it risky? it's only 3/1
[2016-01-10 03:38:28] rapidtrades : yeah on mt4
[2016-01-10 03:38:33] sleger : well, when bitmex had 30$ premium on 24h that was the short of the century
[2016-01-10 03:38:36] SnackyCoins : where does the equity come from?
[2016-01-10 03:38:56] rapidtrades : SnackyCoins: guess they are counter-party
[2016-01-10 03:38:57] habibi : sleger: when it was :)?
[2016-01-10 03:39:07] sleger : rapidtrades: i thought they offered more on mt4, but still 3x i consider it risky because they have no liquidity on btce
[2016-01-10 03:39:12] SnackyCoins : hmmm no thx then 8)
[2016-01-10 03:39:28] sleger : habibi: when it went to 475 recently
[2016-01-10 03:39:54] sleger : mid december (?)
[2016-01-10 03:40:08] SnackyCoins : i remember it
[2016-01-10 03:40:14] sleger : premium on 24H was maybe even 60$ at some point
[2016-01-10 03:40:17] sleger : just stupid....
[2016-01-10 03:40:23] SnackyCoins : thats a pretty clear signal to gtfo
[2016-01-10 03:40:31] habibi : as u said, short heaven
[2016-01-10 03:40:53] sleger : well, it seems easy to say, but many people thought the same at 15$ premium;...
[2016-01-10 03:40:57] sleger : then at 25....
[2016-01-10 03:41:02] sleger : and they all got rekt
[2016-01-10 03:41:10] sleger : hence the 60$ premium
[2016-01-10 03:41:25] SnackyCoins : $15 24h premium is easy to long when you're moving $30/day though
[2016-01-10 03:41:46] sleger : its still a stupid trade to do