This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

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[2015-05-21 06:34:22] cengel : the new normal
[2015-05-21 06:36:19] cengel : daym, looks like someone was willing to take the other side of that bet lol
[2015-05-21 06:38:27] BitMEX_Wally : Wow, someone went short 1 XBT worth of BVOL24H
[2015-05-21 06:39:13] cengel : well that's been the right bet going off of the past week...
[2015-05-21 06:40:22] BitMEX_Wally : I reckon it will settle at 0.80%
[2015-05-21 06:40:23] BitMEX_Arthur : yeah
[2015-05-21 06:40:40] BitMEX_Wally : Assuming it doesn't pop later...
[2015-05-21 06:40:49] BitMEX_Arthur : well nice hedge
[2015-05-21 06:40:49] BitMEX_Arthur : lol
[2015-05-21 06:41:24] BitMEX_Arthur : 0.95 is my prediction
[2015-05-21 06:43:37] cengel : Bitcoin will die in the next hour, price will go to 1, and BVOL will settle around 536 #Contrarian
[2015-05-21 06:43:54] BitMEX_Arthur : haha
[2015-05-21 06:44:01] BitMEX_Wally : Put your money where your mouth is
[2015-05-21 06:44:10] BitMEX_Arthur : yeah man start lifting the book
[2015-05-21 07:55:39] cengel : well wally has already lost
[2015-05-21 08:03:12] cengel : its Price is Right rules, if you go over you automatically lose
[2015-05-21 08:57:34] aabtc : worst market ever
[2015-05-21 08:58:03] aabtc : black swans pls
[2015-05-21 08:58:10] BitMEX_Arthur : i hear ya
[2015-05-21 09:08:45] cengel : these are black swans, we're posting under 1 vol...
[2015-05-21 09:09:21] cengel : this kind of stability is basically black swan lol
[2015-05-21 09:16:25] cengel : yesterday was lowest vol in 180 days, before that, monday was lowest vol in 180 days. and now we look to break it once again, lowest vol in 180 days
[2015-05-21 09:16:41] cengel : but i guess this is new normal
[2015-05-21 11:04:46] cengel : we really will close under 1 today wow
[2015-05-21 12:01:03] BitMEX_Wally : :)
[2015-05-21 12:01:13] BitMEX_Wally : Arthur was right, I was wrong-ish
[2015-05-21 12:13:14] cengel : ish? :/
[2015-05-21 12:19:00] cengel : actually 0.95 was my model too
[2015-05-21 12:19:22] cengel : no nevemrind itw as 0.9 at the time
[2015-05-21 12:19:31] cengel : Arthur wins all
[2015-05-21 18:37:23] Kiran : Problems withdrawing? UI does nothing and there is a JS bug
[2015-05-21 18:51:05] BitMEX_Sam : Kiran: There was an issue we fixed late yesterday, let me double-check on it
[2015-05-21 18:59:02] BitMEX_Sam : Thanks Kiran, there was an issue, but it is now resolved; you can withdraw if you refresh your browser
[2015-05-21 19:20:34] Kiran : Works.
[2015-05-21 19:20:35] Kiran : thanks
[2015-05-21 19:20:53] BitMEX_Sam : Yep, I see it. Thanks for your patience
[2015-05-22 00:51:45] BitMEX_Arthur : Vol is completely dead today
[2015-05-22 01:27:04] chrisxbt : you mean Bitcoin is dead
[2015-05-22 01:27:25] BitMEX_Arthur : Bitcoin is in extreme hibernation
[2015-05-22 05:14:51] cengel : no more like passed out from heroin and when she wakes up she's going to freak out
[2015-05-22 07:07:38] cengel : minimum settlement on <code>BVOL24H</code> 0.83 atm, my pred 0.88
[2015-05-22 07:08:24] BitMEX_Arthur : I predict 1.05
[2015-05-22 07:24:38] BitMEX_Arthur : cengel: check out https://testnet.bitmex.com
[2015-05-22 07:24:51] BitMEX_Arthur : we have `BVOL7D` up there, we will probably list it early next week
[2015-05-22 07:26:12] cengel : fantastic!
[2015-05-22 07:26:29] BitMEX_Arthur : it will still use 5m snap
[2015-05-22 07:26:38] BitMEX_Arthur : so 2016 observations
[2015-05-22 07:26:57] BitMEX_Arthur : so you can still pull `.XBT_5M` into your model
[2015-05-22 07:27:10] BitMEX_Arthur : will expire every Friday at 12:00 UTC
[2015-05-22 07:27:22] cengel : excellent
[2015-05-22 07:29:37] Murch : If, hypothetically the price were to move like $10 in either direction in a couple hours, what sort of value could you expect for dailyvol index?
[2015-05-22 07:29:50] Murch : Not that much cause it's too close to settlement?
[2015-05-22 07:29:58] cengel : not as much as if it was earlier on in the day
[2015-05-22 07:30:41] BitMEX_Arthur : so if the next snap was $10 higher or lower, the indicative settlement would move to 4.74%
[2015-05-22 07:30:58] BitMEX_Arthur : so more than quadruple from the price now
[2015-05-22 07:31:29] Murch : But that would just be for one of the five minute candles out of the 200 or so?
[2015-05-22 07:31:48] Murch : err 288
[2015-05-22 07:31:58] BitMEX_Arthur : right and my calc just extrapolates that stdev for the rest of the snaps that are unknown
[2015-05-22 07:32:11] BitMEX_Arthur : which is how that indicative settlement price is calc'd
[2015-05-22 07:32:20] Murch : Okay cool thanks guys
[2015-05-22 07:33:01] BitMEX_Arthur : You can pull the raw data from the api on the snaps for `.XBT_5M`
[2015-05-22 07:33:18] BitMEX_Arthur : and then play around with the numbers as you like to come up with your own talilored model
[2015-05-22 07:33:48] Murch : Hmm I should learn how to do that haha
[2015-05-22 07:34:10] Murch : Well, I'm expecting some crazy shenanigans after OKcoin settlement
[2015-05-22 07:34:19] cengel : yea, for example Murch i have a simulation set up where i can see how an x% or $x move across y snaps will affect the minimum settlement
[2015-05-22 07:34:44] BitMEX_Arthur : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wc8XdMZZ9BR_0Vru8Sj1nu0Cc1tHsGvEqGSdMkCB2vo/edit#gid=830587621
[2015-05-22 07:34:45] Murch : I see I see
[2015-05-22 07:34:51] BitMEX_Arthur : check out that spreadsheet
[2015-05-22 07:34:54] BitMEX_Arthur : it's a public google doc
[2015-05-22 07:35:06] BitMEX_Arthur : you can see how to pull raw data from BitMEX into spreadsheets
[2015-05-22 07:35:18] BitMEX_Arthur : we are working on getting index real time prices into our excel plugin
[2015-05-22 07:35:20] BitMEX_Arthur : as well
[2015-05-22 07:35:32] cengel : http://i.imgur.com/4hNtJyn.png
[2015-05-22 07:35:44] Murch : Oh nice that's really helpful actually
[2015-05-22 07:35:48] cengel : something like this Murch, you can generate different scenarios to see how it affects minimum vol and some kind of predicted vol for the day
[2015-05-22 07:36:26] Murch : Oo interesting
[2015-05-22 07:36:50] cengel : order execution from Excel using VBA is a little bleh though, but you can plug python script in to send API key info
[2015-05-22 07:37:26] Murch : VBA.. oldschool
[2015-05-22 07:38:17] Murch : That's good, if I were to mess with the API I'd have to go with python
[2015-05-22 07:38:48] BitMEX_Arthur : the guy who built the excel plugin is going to add indicies
[2015-05-22 07:38:59] Murch : Looks like LTC is going nuts. VOL contract for that would be pretty fun
[2015-05-22 07:39:31] cengel : i have a feeling altcoin margin trading is going to become a shitfest once the collateral is in question due to how fast some of those prices can move
[2015-05-22 07:40:07] BitMEX_Arthur : yeah going to be fun
[2015-05-22 07:40:16] Murch : Yup definitely going to get crazy if/when BTC rallies hardcore
[2015-05-22 07:44:28] Murch : Do you guys have any intention of messing with LTC? Or are you avoiding it for that reason?
[2015-05-22 07:45:08] Murch : Offering it on this site I mean.
[2015-05-22 07:45:23] BitMEX_Arthur : So the `BVOL` and `XBT` series have a capped price logic to deal with the speculative nature of the products
[2015-05-22 07:45:25] BitMEX_Arthur : and higher leverage
[2015-05-22 07:45:32] BitMEX_Arthur : we are working on a v2 of that logic
[2015-05-22 07:45:57] BitMEX_Arthur : and once that is done we will have a vastly superior method to deal with highly leveraged and speculative crypto derivatives
[2015-05-22 07:46:02] BitMEX_Arthur : and then we can get funky
[2015-05-22 07:46:08] BitMEX_Arthur : with altcoins and other prouduct
[2015-05-22 07:46:43] Murch : Ah okay sounds good.
[2015-05-22 07:47:33] BitMEX_Arthur : Murch: how did you hear about us?
[2015-05-22 07:47:54] Murch : I'd heard about you way back
[2015-05-22 07:48:06] Murch : Probably from your first post on bitcoinmarkets I suppose
[2015-05-22 07:48:19] BitMEX_Arthur : what made you finally take the plunge and start trading?
[2015-05-22 07:48:42] Murch : I was getting raped too much on 20x futures :P
[2015-05-22 07:48:52] BitMEX_Arthur : haha
[2015-05-22 07:48:55] Murch : figured I'd just try my hand at volatility instead of direction
[2015-05-22 07:49:42] BitMEX_Arthur : if you want to trade with lower leverage try out our `XBU` series it's the same type of futures contract you find on OKCoin and BitVC
[2015-05-22 07:49:44] cengel : it's also worth noting that the margin system here is more reasonable. 20x is excessive
[2015-05-22 07:50:03] cengel : its almost like trading FOREX 100x
[2015-05-22 07:50:22] cengel : sure a few retail people get lucky there but you wont see institutions trading with that kind of gearing
[2015-05-22 07:50:31] Murch : Yeah maybe I'll give it a go if I see some moves building
[2015-05-22 07:50:33] cengel : at least minimum margin ive seen is 2%
[2015-05-22 07:51:01] cengel : actually with the kind of week bitcoin has had, 20x isn't seeming too crazy lol
[2015-05-22 07:51:12] Murch : Mhm, it's definitely gambling unless you position size carefully and I'm far too compulsive for that.
[2015-05-22 07:51:16] cengel : it's the normal volatility of bitcoin that makes that kind of leverage too much
[2015-05-22 07:52:17] Murch : I'm not messing around with that much though so in the end it's alright.
[2015-05-22 07:53:57] Murch : The lack of movement lately has been really frustrating, but I think in the next few days it's about to either go up a lot, or go up a little and then dump to the shitter.
[2015-05-22 07:54:24] Murch : Seeing way too many longs opening on Finex and not that much up movement.
[2015-05-22 07:55:23] Murch : Either way I win if I buy volatility.
[2015-05-22 07:56:03] BitMEX_Arthur : :)
[2015-05-22 07:59:50] Murch : We'll see anyway. Volatility is one of those nice things where the longer it stays low, the more explosive the move in the end. Especially with interest ticking on margin positions.
[2015-05-22 08:07:52] cengel : murch, you wont win when there is a lull in market as now, just be aware of the risk
[2015-05-22 08:09:43] Murch : Oh for sure. I just think it's well worth the risk at the moment.
[2015-05-22 08:10:02] Murch : Appreciate the warning though.
[2015-05-22 08:10:53] Murch : Well, I should probably head to sleep. Good chatting with you guys.
[2015-05-22 08:12:33] BitMEX_Arthur : see you soon
[2015-05-22 08:45:31] chrisxbt : marketmaker
[2015-05-22 08:45:45] BitMEX_Arthur : what do you need?
[2015-05-22 08:47:59] chrisxbt : nothing, just saw all the asks dissapear
[2015-05-22 08:48:42] cengel : its a little sensitive to pumps :P
[2015-05-22 08:49:01] BitMEX_Arthur : i should imagine he would be, selling vol is a dangerous gam
[2015-05-22 08:49:02] BitMEX_Arthur : e
[2015-05-22 08:51:57] chrisxbt : does someone have a guide for what the XBU series names mean?
[2015-05-22 08:52:22] cengel : the month symbols are standard
[2015-05-22 08:52:40] BitMEX_Arthur : chrisxbt: what specifically do u want to know the payoff structure/
[2015-05-22 08:52:40] cengel : if youve traded ES or other CME products
[2015-05-22 08:53:00] BitMEX_Arthur : https://www.bitmex.com/app/seriesGuide/XBU
[2015-05-22 08:53:01] chrisxbt : K15, M15 UU15
[2015-05-22 08:53:03] BitMEX_Arthur : read that
[2015-05-22 08:53:22] BitMEX_Arthur : https://www.bitmex.com/app/monthCodesReference
[2015-05-22 08:53:29] BitMEX_Arthur : that gives you the month code reference
[2015-05-22 08:53:52] chrisxbt : can you elaborate
[2015-05-22 08:54:07] BitMEX_Arthur : K = May, M = JUNE, U = SEPTEMBER
[2015-05-22 08:54:15] BitMEX_Arthur : so there are 12 letters that correspond to the month
[2015-05-22 08:54:19] BitMEX_Arthur : the last two numbers are for the year
[2015-05-22 08:54:51] BitMEX_Arthur : so for XBUU15, XBU tells you the type of futures contract, U tells you the month, 15 tells you the year
[2015-05-22 08:55:10] chrisxbt : interesting naming convention
[2015-05-22 08:55:32] BitMEX_Arthur : we didn't come up with it, it's used for futures contracts in the traditional finance space
[2015-05-22 08:55:58] BitMEX_Arthur : it's a divisive issue in bitcoin land, some like the old way some want a new way
[2015-05-22 08:56:23] BitMEX_Wally : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delivery_month
[2015-05-22 08:56:33] cengel : its standard yea
[2015-05-22 08:56:54] cengel : funny enough bitcoiners have had no problem adopting indirect quotation
[2015-05-22 08:57:29] BitMEX_Arthur : what do u mean by that
[2015-05-22 08:58:01] cengel : well to most nonfinance people the quoting of forex is counterintuitive
[2015-05-22 08:58:21] cengel : since it shows the value of the numerator rather than the value of the denominator as a normal fraction would be for units
[2015-05-22 08:58:38] cengel : it's $237 / BTC
[2015-05-22 08:58:44] cengel : but in finance it's 237 BTC/USD
[2015-05-22 08:59:06] cengel : direct quotation is just as mathematically legitimate it's just traditional finance convention is obeyed in this case :)
[2015-05-22 08:59:25] BitMEX_Wally : cengel: Only in a US centric world
[2015-05-22 08:59:30] BitMEX_Wally : GBP is 1.5 USD
[2015-05-22 09:01:04] cengel : well yea that's the reasoning behind the old convention is that the number shouldl reflect value of the numerator
[2015-05-22 09:02:04] cengel : but if bitcoiners wanted to they could have said, no that's wrongheaded just use X USD per BTC , or USD/BTC
[2015-05-22 09:03:18] cengel : I think my point is just that when there's a convention that has worked for so long, just follow it :D
[2015-05-22 09:04:00] BitMEX_Wally : :)
[2015-05-22 09:04:51] BitMEX_Arthur : u might get crucified for saying that on r/bitcoin
[2015-05-22 09:05:55] cengel : i dont even read r/LibertarianCircleJerk anymore
[2015-05-22 09:06:19] cengel : if someone has a worthwhile link yea but havent been able to read it regularly for a while
[2015-05-22 09:08:52] cengel : but, im talking about just naming convention in that case, not institutions and processes and technology.
[2015-05-22 09:09:50] BitMEX_Arthur : agreed but there is serious anger when u try and say something that is done in legacy finance actually has a good purpose behind it
[2015-05-22 09:10:56] cengel : there's a strange opposition to" XBT" symbol by some people that doesn't make sense to me
[2015-05-22 09:11:07] BitMEX_Arthur : yeah
[2015-05-22 09:13:39] cengel : wasnt that one of the only good things the bitcoin foundation ever did was file that application to make XBT official w/ ISO ?
[2015-05-22 09:14:39] BitMEX_Arthur : oh they did
[2015-05-22 09:14:50] BitMEX_Arthur : i think you need a central bank to nominate you
[2015-05-22 09:14:53] BitMEX_Arthur : to get accepted tho
[2015-05-22 09:15:20] BitMEX_Arthur : but whatever if enough people use it who cares what ISO says
[2015-05-22 09:17:08] cengel : a lot of systems use the ISO tables for their databases.
[2015-05-22 09:17:13] cengel : every little bit helps
[2015-05-22 09:19:29] BitMEX_Arthur : truth
[2015-05-22 09:30:26] cengel : wtf? bitfinex got hacked
[2015-05-22 09:31:13] cengel : http://i.imgur.com/nQf11C7.png
[2015-05-22 09:32:15] BitMEX_Wally : ``` Urgent action required Posted: 11 minutes ago Dear Customer although we keep over 99.5% of users' BTC deposits in secure multisig wallets, the small remaining amount in coins in our hot wallet are theoretically vulnerable to attack. We believe that our hot wallet keys might have been compromised and ask that all of our customer cease depositing cryptocurrency to old deposits addresses. We are in the process of creating a new hot wallet and will advise within the next few hours. Although this incident is unfortunate, its scale is small and will be fully absorbed by the company. Thanks a lot for your patience and comprehension. Bitfinex Team ```
[2015-05-22 09:35:47] cengel : market is shrugging it off for now but maybe once it spreads
[2015-05-22 09:46:54] cengel : i guess the scope of it seems more like that Bitstamp RNG hack, very limited
[2015-05-22 09:47:08] cengel : perhaps not a big reaction in mkt as long as the platform continues to function
[2015-05-22 10:14:13] cengel : 100K coins, 99.5% in multisig, so 500 btc exposure? that's only 100K USD, bitstamp was $5 million
[2015-05-22 10:29:01] BitMEX_Arthur : time will tell
[2015-05-22 11:45:09] cengel : make that 1500 BTC: https://blockchain.info/address/17owg8RWb73qfE5HeQk6gg6RAgEUfxPXks
[2015-05-22 11:50:27] BitMEX_Arthur : that's what people think is the address?
[2015-05-22 12:10:09] cengel : yea, by tracing the wallet from past withdrawals
[2015-05-22 12:10:48] BitMEX_Arthur : so think that's the total amount they lost or more addresses got comprimised
[2015-05-22 12:14:45] cengel : that's the only one that has outward transactions from the wallet
[2015-05-22 12:18:12] BitMEX_Arthur : 300k USD
[2015-05-22 14:51:48] cengel : Bitfinex PR gets 2/10 rating from me
[2015-05-22 14:52:22] BitMEX_Arthur : i haven't seen zane post anything on reddit y
[2015-05-22 14:52:25] BitMEX_Arthur : yet
[2015-05-22 14:52:25] cengel : how big does a shop have to get before hiring professionals becomes sensible? i got a friend in PR i should ask him
[2015-05-22 14:52:47] cengel : he's been posting on Twitter, you have to go to his reddit user page though to see it lol http://www.reddit.com/u/zanetackett
[2015-05-22 14:53:11] BitMEX_Sam : Ah so there are some responses
[2015-05-22 14:53:18] BitMEX_Sam : The email/warning on the site was very curt though
[2015-05-22 14:53:58] BitMEX_Sam : It's been a very bad few weeks for them though
[2015-05-22 14:54:14] BitMEX_Sam : Brings back memories of Karpele's habit of coding on the live site
[2015-05-22 14:54:32] BitMEX_Arthur : they can't be too happy with this alpha point roll out
[2015-05-22 14:57:03] cengel : the market reaction still has been light
[2015-05-22 14:57:25] BitMEX_Arthur : i think we will stall here and go lower
[2015-05-22 14:57:47] BitMEX_Arthur : i think bfx thing def dampened sentiment
[2015-05-22 14:57:59] BitMEX_Arthur : if i wanted to push the price down u have perfect news cover
[2015-05-22 14:58:08] BitMEX_Arthur : people will think more news out of bfx and panic sel
[2015-05-22 15:52:39] cengel : wait
[2015-05-22 15:52:49] cengel : did this UI change just get pushed from testnet?
[2015-05-22 15:53:20] cengel : woops nm
[2015-05-22 15:53:36] BitMEX_Wally : We just updated testnet with `BVOL7D`
[2015-05-22 15:53:39] cengel : thought i saw the 7D appear already :D
[2015-05-22 15:53:40] cengel : yea
[2015-05-22 15:53:47] cengel : arthur told me this i see
[2015-05-22 15:53:56] cengel : i look forward to trading that one
[2015-05-22 15:54:09] cengel : already starting to take a look at past weeks' behaviors
[2015-05-22 16:06:43] cengel : so youre going to make the BVOL7D index with data going back to when ?
[2015-05-22 16:08:51] BitMEX_Wally : cengel: It's already in testnet back to November
[2015-05-22 16:09:44] cengel : i keep mixing up the testnet window my bad i see it now
[2015-05-22 16:10:47] BitMEX_Wally : Maybe testnet should have a different theme
[2015-05-22 16:10:52] BitMEX_Wally : To avoid accidental trading
[2015-05-22 16:13:58] BitMEX_Sam : Well, it does, to a degree, the logo and favicon are different
[2015-05-22 16:14:38] BitMEX_Sam : Personally I usually run testnet in the dark theme and the live site in the white theme so I can easily tell them apart
[2015-05-22 16:14:55] BitMEX_Sam : You can switch your theme with the gear icon way over on the top right
[2015-05-22 16:34:32] cengel : it's more me being careless. i use so many tabs that the icon gets disappeared so i click through and make assumptions
[2015-05-22 16:35:07] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah understood. Try changing the theme. Works well for me
[2015-05-22 17:33:20] cengel : Wally - how is the indicative on that BVOL7D being calculated in these first 6 hr ?
[2015-05-22 17:37:48] cengel : is there a different cutoff to when it starts to calc using only the current week ?
[2015-05-22 18:15:23] blackdog6621 : How come my account status is MarginCall? I have more than a 25% of my wallet balance as available margin
[2015-05-22 18:15:43] blackdog6621 : and all of my contracts are XBTM15 which I thought were supposed to leverage up to 20x
[2015-05-22 18:18:01] BitMEX_Sam : blackdog6621: 20x leverage is not yet enabled. That contract is 20% initial, 15% maintenance, which is 5x/6.6x leverage
[2015-05-22 18:18:28] blackdog6621 : ah I thought I read that started on the 20th
[2015-05-22 18:18:37] BitMEX_Sam : MarginCall is not liquidation, it is simply the system warning you that you are dangerously close to liquidation. You'll get out of MarginCall state when your `excess margin` > 0
[2015-05-22 18:19:10] BitMEX_Sam : blackdog6621: Yes, that was the original plan; we've decided to delay for a time while we improve and test the process
[2015-05-22 18:19:52] BitMEX_Sam : Apologies for not sending out a follow-up email; we usually re-announce on the day when those changes hit, so you would see it in the announcements panel if it went live
[2015-05-22 18:20:14] BitMEX_Sam : Once we have an ETA on the new policy we'll announce. For now XBTK15 is up to 10x
[2015-05-22 18:20:19] cengel : Sam do you know how BVOL7D's indicative is being calculated? when it changes from rolling -> sample ?
[2015-05-22 18:20:26] blackdog6621 : ah, ok, thanks! can't complain about letting some more QA happen before changes roll out
[2015-05-22 18:21:10] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, we're working on building the fairest system possible for traders and the exchange, and that involves a fair bit of modeling
[2015-05-22 18:21:30] BitMEX_Sam : cengel: I am not sure, Wally is asleep (Hong Kong time) but I am sure he will answer when he's up
[2015-05-22 18:22:49] cengel : k
[2015-05-22 18:22:54] blackdog6621 : BitMEX_Sam: now that I look at it, my `excess margin` is greater than zero, also about 25% of my wallet balance
[2015-05-22 18:23:28] BitMEX_Sam : Sorry, I misspoke.
[2015-05-22 18:23:48] BitMEX_Sam : Negative excess margin puts you into liquidation. Positive excess margin, up until your initial margin requirement, can be margin call
[2015-05-22 18:24:11] BitMEX_Sam : Once you reach above your initial margin requirement (this is `target excess margin`, you should see it in the automated email), you exit margin call
[2015-05-22 18:24:32] blackdog6621 : Oh I see. is there an easy way to see what my initial margin requirement is again? these aren't new contracts
[2015-05-22 18:24:50] blackdog6621 : oh
[2015-05-22 18:24:51] blackdog6621 : ok
[2015-05-22 18:25:23] BitMEX_Sam : So e.g. if you entered a bunch of positions that were 30% IM and 20% MM, and dipped below your MM requirement, you would enter liquidation. When you reached back above the 20% MM, you stay in margin call until you are back above the 30% IM.
[2015-05-22 18:25:32] blackdog6621 : does unrealized PnL influence that?
[2015-05-22 18:25:44] BitMEX_Sam : Yes, because it contributes to your margin balance
[2015-05-22 18:26:54] blackdog6621 : cool, thanks! its a little confusing because it seems like I can buy myself into a margin call, sell a couple of contracts, and still be in a margin call with more available margin than I started with
[2015-05-22 18:29:29] BitMEX_Sam : You can't buy yourself into margin call, the system won't let you go below your IM requirements in a session
[2015-05-22 18:29:46] BitMEX_Sam : However in the market turns against you quickly, it is certainly possible to enter margin call shortly thereafter
[2015-05-22 18:29:54] blackdog6621 : sorry, I meant buy very close, then the market moves
[2015-05-22 18:29:58] BitMEX_Sam : The issue is that margin call is 'sticky'
[2015-05-22 18:30:12] BitMEX_Sam : You enter liquidation when you go below your MM requirement
[2015-05-22 18:30:33] BitMEX_Sam : And then you're entered into margin call when your MM req < equity < IM req
[2015-05-22 18:30:42] BitMEX_Sam : and you leave margin call when you go above your IM req.
[2015-05-22 18:31:02] blackdog6621 : but at that point doesn't your IM requirement go back down to zero?
[2015-05-22 18:31:19] BitMEX_Sam : It's what your IM requirement would have been. Similar to session margin
[2015-05-22 18:31:43] blackdog6621 : ah. so its basically a motivation to keep from margin calling yourself over and over?
[2015-05-22 18:31:46] BitMEX_Sam : If you pull from the API, your margin details have a field called `targetExcessMargin` that we don't expose on the UI yet (the margin widget is already quite cluttered)
[2015-05-22 18:31:51] BitMEX_Sam : Yes
[2015-05-22 18:32:03] BitMEX_Sam : It's the exchange's way of warning you that you did something dangerous
[2015-05-22 18:33:13] blackdog6621 : btw is some sort of trigger/stop loss order feature in the pipeline?
[2015-05-22 18:33:34] blackdog6621 : or is that something that we're sorta expected to do on our own with the API?
[2015-05-22 18:33:36] BitMEX_Sam : Yes, that's implemented in our trading engine and soon to be in the API, but it will be a short time before it hits the interface
[2015-05-22 18:33:50] blackdog6621 : ah ok
[2015-05-22 18:34:01] BitMEX_Sam : Of course any bot could watch prices and submit orders, but we do have native stop orders that will be possible soon
[2015-05-22 18:34:14] BitMEX_Sam : It's just a matter of reworking our order controls to support it
[2015-05-22 18:34:34] blackdog6621 : sweet! I'm looking forward to it, it'll make leaving my account unwatched a little more comfortable
[2015-05-22 18:34:45] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, completely understandable
[2015-05-22 18:35:05] blackdog6621 : you guys are doing great so far, I love the feel of the UI
[2015-05-22 18:35:08] BitMEX_Sam : Thankfully, at least in the last few weeks, the markets have been very safe
[2015-05-22 18:35:10] BitMEX_Sam : Thanks - glad you like it
[2015-05-22 18:35:24] BitMEX_Sam : Some are overwhelmed by all the information. We think it's more useful this way
[2015-05-22 18:36:07] blackdog6621 : yeah, and I can't quite put my finger on it but it feels very responsive. unlike okcoin's "fullscreen" which has delays once you click a button
[2015-05-22 18:38:16] blackdog6621 : just curious, would it be a big hassle to get into tradingview? not the widget, but listed as an exchange there?
[2015-05-22 18:38:43] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, our architecture was designed for real-time trading from the very beginning
[2015-05-22 18:38:47] BitMEX_Sam : It bleeds into everything we do
[2015-05-22 18:38:54] BitMEX_Sam : I have been trying to get our data on TV for some time
[2015-05-22 18:39:09] BitMEX_Sam : I've been in contact with them since January. They say "working on it". We'll see
[2015-05-22 18:40:33] blackdog6621 : haha that doesn't really surprise me. from the time I've spent on there it seems like they're at that point where tech companies become so big everything becomes a process
[2015-05-22 18:40:48] blackdog6621 : like the post-startup phase or something
[2015-05-22 18:41:08] BitMEX_Sam : Right. Things get slow as these companies grow
[2015-05-22 18:41:25] BitMEX_Sam : We tried to get on Quandl instead, but they're in the middle of a system-wide rework that will allow data providers to add data programmatically
[2015-05-22 18:41:35] BitMEX_Sam : Which would be fantastic. But in the meantime, they're not adding anyone's data
[2015-05-22 18:42:03] blackdog6621 : ah, I've never tried quandll
[2015-05-22 18:42:07] BitMEX_Sam : In the end, TV still does it better than anyone else. It is a very heavy framework though
[2015-05-22 18:42:27] BitMEX_Sam : We used to use highstocks which is about 10% of the size, but didn't have the indicator support et al
[2015-05-22 18:43:11] blackdog6621 : yeah I really like their tools, but its still very strange to me their scripting language doesn't have loops or arrays. its like programming without knowing how to type
[2015-05-22 18:43:52] BitMEX_Sam : Yes; I suppose the idea is that you operate on a series itself and don't need loops
[2015-05-22 18:44:09] BitMEX_Sam : But we have found some shortfalls... for instance, changing a chart's interval can make calculations wildly inaccurate
[2015-05-22 18:44:35] BitMEX_Sam : PipFoundry did a great BVOL24H indicator but we couldn't find any way to prevent it from getting way off if the interval != 5min
[2015-05-22 18:45:00] blackdog6621 : lol wow
[2015-05-22 18:45:11] blackdog6621 : I noticed that TV's changes drastically based on what your interval is
[2015-05-22 18:45:25] blackdog6621 : their builtin historical vol
[2015-05-22 18:45:28] BitMEX_Sam : Yes. And that shouldn't be, it should be independent
[2015-05-22 18:46:06] BitMEX_Sam : We have had more than a few issues with the chart in general, but it's still better than competitors
[2015-05-22 18:46:07] blackdog6621 : I wrote half a script to try and detect divergences but without loops it led to some awful code lol
[2015-05-22 18:46:23] BitMEX_Sam : we had to double iframe the chart to prevent a horrific memory leak that can crash any browser after a few hours
[2015-05-22 18:46:34] blackdog6621 : lol!
[2015-05-22 18:47:13] BitMEX_Sam : I'm working on getting our indices on the chart so you could view the index value on top of the contract's price
[2015-05-22 18:47:27] blackdog6621 : oh that would be sweet!
[2015-05-22 18:47:29] BitMEX_Sam : I would definitely like to integrate TV's own exchange data into the widget as well but as far as I can tell you're not supposed to do that
[2015-05-22 18:48:02] blackdog6621 : what frameworks are you using on the backend? is it jvm based?
[2015-05-22 18:49:23] BitMEX_Sam : The webservers are NodeJS
[2015-05-22 18:49:26] BitMEX_Sam : The trading engine is kdb+
[2015-05-22 18:52:04] blackdog6621 : hm never heard of kdb+. some devs at work were talking about the idea of isomorphic code and that put server-side JS frameworks in a new light for me
[2015-05-22 18:53:12] BitMEX_Sam : Yep - when you load a page on BitMEX, the NodeJS server actually renders it server-side and delivers it along with the data it used to render
[2015-05-22 18:53:30] BitMEX_Sam : Then the browser renders it in memory, and checksums. If the checksum matches the checksum from the server, the DOM is left untouched
[2015-05-22 18:53:37] BitMEX_Sam : It's part of how loads (aside from the TV chart) are so snappy
[2015-05-22 18:55:48] blackdog6621 : wow that's awesome. its kinda funny how the RPC world of 10 years ago is almost being reincarnated, but in a whole new browser-based way
[2015-05-22 18:56:09] cengel : Sam im trying to filter the BVOL7D 5M snaps into 7day gaps but filter timestamp 5040 isn't pulling them
[2015-05-22 18:56:20] BitMEX_Sam : Yes, in a way; there are a lot of very nice ajax abstractions that feel a lot like RPC now
[2015-05-22 18:56:33] BitMEX_Sam : cengel: will take a look
[2015-05-22 18:56:43] cengel : 720 pulls daily
[2015-05-22 18:57:22] cengel : https://testnet.bitmex.com/api/v1/trade?symbol=.BVOL7D&columns=price&count=200&filter=%7B%22timestamp.minute%22%3A%20720%7D
[2015-05-22 18:57:28] cengel : but i want the 7day vols not daily...
[2015-05-22 18:57:58] BitMEX_Sam : So you just want weekly data
[2015-05-22 18:58:03] BitMEX_Sam : Right?
[2015-05-22 18:58:18] cengel : weekly at the Friday 12:00gmt interval yes
[2015-05-22 18:58:33] BitMEX_Sam : The `timestamp.minute` filter might not be what you think; the .BVOL24H index, for instance, actually publishes every 5min
[2015-05-22 18:58:37] BitMEX_Sam : min `720` is 12:00 GMT
[2015-05-22 18:58:45] cengel : doh
[2015-05-22 18:58:57] cengel : okay so timestamp-day exists yea ?
[2015-05-22 18:59:02] cengel : .day
[2015-05-22 18:59:08] BitMEX_Sam : I will need to check with wally on this because it's a kdb thing, I am not sure if timestamp.day actually exists; we never use it
[2015-05-22 18:59:16] BitMEX_Sam : Worth a shot though
[2015-05-22 18:59:22] cengel : ill poke around
[2015-05-22 18:59:28] cengel : not critical anyway since u guys launch next friday right ?
[2015-05-22 19:00:32] BitMEX_Sam : With BVOL7D, yeah, I believe that is the plan
[2015-05-22 19:00:46] BitMEX_Sam : We may try to bunch it in with the speculative margin changes but we'll see how development goes
[2015-05-22 19:01:47] cengel : ok
[2015-05-22 19:02:00] cengel : looking forward to getting some action on <code>BVOL7D</code> :D
[2015-05-22 19:02:06] chrisxbt : are you going to have multiple 7D contracts?
[2015-05-22 19:03:00] BitMEX_Sam : No, would be a single weekly
[2015-05-22 19:03:55] BitMEX_Sam : Friday -> Friday
[2015-05-22 19:04:22] blackdog6621 : hah I just realized that last leg up broke through all 5 daily resistances. gotta love bitcoin for that kind of thing
[2015-05-22 19:04:42] blackdog6621 : at least on okcoin
[2015-05-22 19:05:18] cengel : and now she'll probably go to sleep for 3 days
[2015-05-22 19:05:43] blackdog6621 : yup lol
[2015-05-22 19:24:38] BitMEX_Sam : cengel: Got some mileage out of http://kx.com/q/d/a/q.htm#Date and Time
[2015-05-22 19:24:54] BitMEX_Sam : Wally will be able to provide a better answer, but you can do some basic day/hour/minute stuff like this:
[2015-05-22 19:25:14] BitMEX_Sam : `{"timestamp.dd": 15, "timestamp.hh": 21, "timestamp.uu": 10}`
[2015-05-22 19:25:26] BitMEX_Sam : Sorry for the opacity of the whole process, I'll prioritize making a friendlier version
[2015-05-22 19:25:37] BitMEX_Sam : Anyway that query would be every snap on the 15th of the month at 21:10 GMT
[2015-05-22 19:26:21] cengel : but i need calendar day :(
[2015-05-22 19:26:34] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, you need day of week
[2015-05-22 19:26:53] BitMEX_Sam : As far as I can tell, there isn't a good way quite yet. You could just load them into another table and read every 7
[2015-05-22 19:27:04] BitMEX_Sam : not ideal but works for now.
[2015-05-22 19:28:51] cengel : yea ive got it set up to get a weekly overview manually but it's computationally intensive to do it for every week to get some picture of descriptive stats of historical 7-day vols
[2015-05-22 19:29:11] cengel : but confirmed my numbers do line up with them at least
[2015-05-22 19:29:33] BitMEX_Sam : That's good.
[2015-05-22 19:36:09] cengel : i think the 7D will be even better
[2015-05-22 19:36:11] cengel : :)
[2015-05-22 19:36:30] cengel : it will serve a dual purpose. speculators and hedgers can get use out of it
[2015-05-22 19:36:50] BitMEX_Sam : Both are nice contracts, I agree, 7D will be more useful for hedging
[2015-05-22 19:41:26] cengel : hey Sam i thought all you guys were in HK ?
[2015-05-22 19:45:58] BitMEX_Sam : cengel: Nope, I'm actually in Milwaukee
[2015-05-22 19:46:17] BitMEX_Sam : I used to live in HK, I was there when we started BitMEX
[2015-05-22 19:47:51] cengel : ah okay, the Git still says HK :)
[2015-05-22 19:51:48] BitMEX_Sam : Github?
[2015-05-22 19:55:40] cengel : yep
[2015-05-22 19:56:55] cengel : bitcoin is the greatest. major spot exchange hacked -> pump it up!
[2015-05-22 19:57:07] BitMEX_Sam : I see milwaukee from here
[2015-05-22 19:57:59] cengel : maybe i saw it on something else then unless you recently changed it
[2015-05-22 20:26:08] cengel : BitMEX_Sam: if youre still around, is there any particular reason why the indices data stops just 6 months ago ?
[2015-05-22 20:26:28] BitMEX_Sam : cengel: Might be the `count` param
[2015-05-22 20:26:36] BitMEX_Sam : You can only retrieve 500 rows at a clip
[2015-05-22 20:26:43] Swedishnut : The trust is in the chain not the off and on ramps of exchanges it seems
[2015-05-22 20:34:01] cengel : BitMEX_Sam: if i do reverse=false it starst in Nov 14
[2015-05-22 20:35:39] cengel : Swedishnut: maybe if okcoin gets hacked we'll pump to the 250's
[2015-05-22 20:42:24] chrisxbt : hm trying out your XBU and XBT futures
[2015-05-22 20:50:58] BitMEX_Sam : cengel: Ah I see what you mean
[2015-05-22 20:51:04] BitMEX_Sam : That's when we started recording bitfinex data
[2015-05-22 20:51:19] cengel : any plans to extend it back a bit more ?
[2015-05-22 20:51:37] BitMEX_Sam : Bitfinex doesn't offer historical data. We could extend it farther back with external sources but we haven't had a need
[2015-05-22 20:52:08] BitMEX_Sam : I could ask Wally. We'd need to find a source of reliable data
[2015-05-22 20:54:10] BitMEX_Sam : cengel: I just threw a reference to this conversation in our issue tracker. We'll see about extending it
[2015-05-22 20:54:43] cengel : cool thx
[2015-05-22 20:59:11] BitMEX_Sam : Alright everyone I'm out for the night - if anybody needs something urgent just email our support mailbox, support@bitmex.com
[2015-05-22 21:05:28] chrisxbt : I have 5 min historical data
[2015-05-22 21:24:25] cengel : chrisxbt: where at ?
[2015-05-22 21:25:43] chrisxbt : cengel: I'll send you on twitter
[2015-05-23 06:06:13] cengel : chrisxbt: sorry for late response thanks
[2015-05-23 06:09:12] BitMEX_Arthur : http://shitco.in/2015/05/23/okc-drama-goes-nuclear/
[2015-05-23 06:09:21] BitMEX_Arthur : Some light reading for your Saturday
[2015-05-23 06:29:58] cengel : Roger Ver is an asshole, a lot of people kept their money with Gox because of his vouching for them
[2015-05-23 06:34:13] cengel : anyone else remember that ridiculous video he posted confirming solvency?
[2015-05-23 06:34:47] BitMEX_Arthur : no
[2015-05-23 06:35:19] chrisxbt : 'he never mentioned solvency'
[2015-05-23 06:35:54] cengel : he did an incomplete audit
[2015-05-23 06:36:04] cengel : but still presented it as a safe place to keep funds
[2015-05-23 06:36:07] chrisxbt : convenient huh
[2015-05-23 06:36:56] cengel : I feel still the scars whenever any of the characters surrounding Gox rekkage pop up again, i will never forget all their roles
[2015-05-23 06:37:15] BitMEX_Arthur : when did Roger vouch for them?
[2015-05-23 06:37:22] BitMEX_Arthur : I got my coins out in October luckily
[2015-05-23 06:38:43] cengel : it was that summer.
[2015-05-23 06:41:57] cengel : OKCoin has been behind a lot of speculation though. for as long as I can remember they have been accused of faking volume
[2015-05-23 06:42:34] BitMEX_Arthur : all the chinese exchanges have been, i think it's just normal operating procedure for them
[2015-05-23 06:42:53] cengel : then they had the employee exodus, then there's this whole murkiness around .CN vs. .COM
[2015-05-23 06:47:34] cengel : but Draper is behind it. and billionaires instill confidence in others
[2015-05-23 06:48:06] BitMEX_Arthur : apparently draper isn't actively involved he made some small investment non directly
[2015-05-23 06:48:10] BitMEX_Arthur : is what i was told
[2015-05-23 06:49:45] Murch : Hmm, how much lower does your model say the VOL could fall if it stays sideways like this for the next 5 hours?
[2015-05-23 06:50:42] chrisxbt : cengel: .
[2015-05-23 06:51:37] Murch : Oh whoops thanks
[2015-05-23 06:52:02] BitMEX_Arthur : The floor is 1.71%
[2015-05-23 06:52:39] Murch : Oh really? That's not too bad. Appreciate the info.
[2015-05-23 06:54:11] Murch : Would it make sense for it to be impossible to sell below the floor? i.e. to set a wall that can be sold into at the floor since it should never reach there anyway.
[2015-05-23 06:54:39] Murch : To prevent manipulation I guess
[2015-05-23 06:55:18] BitMEX_Arthur : If a user wants to sell below the floor that is up to them
[2015-05-23 06:56:18] Murch : Well, my point is that it's impossible to profit from such an action except for in trying to cause liquidations.
[2015-05-23 06:57:41] BitMEX_Arthur : well we mark to fair, so if you sell at an uneconomic price you must provision for the implied loss
[2015-05-23 06:57:54] BitMEX_Arthur : so if you want to try and push the price down, you are just wasting your money
[2015-05-23 06:59:37] Murch : Fair enough.
[2015-05-23 06:59:51] chrisxbt : How many 7D contracts are you planning to have?
[2015-05-23 07:00:06] chrisxbt : How many series based on the 7D index?
[2015-05-23 07:00:31] BitMEX_Arthur : only one
[2015-05-23 07:00:39] BitMEX_Arthur : `BVOL7D` will expire every Friday
[2015-05-23 07:00:44] BitMEX_Arthur : at 12:00 UTC
[2015-05-23 07:01:09] BitMEX_Arthur : e.g. on Monday `BVOL7D` will have 5 days left until expiry
[2015-05-23 07:01:27] BitMEX_Arthur : and two days of observations will be known
[2015-05-23 07:01:41] chrisxbt : got it
[2015-05-23 07:03:21] chrisxbt : you could eventually introduce one that expires on tuesday if there is interest
[2015-05-23 07:05:21] BitMEX_Arthur : why Tuesday?
[2015-05-23 07:05:53] BitMEX_Arthur : Us and our competitors have Friday or Saturday expiry for our derivatives contracts
[2015-05-23 07:06:07] BitMEX_Arthur : so it makes sense to expire the weekly vol contract on Friday as well
[2015-05-23 07:08:13] Murch : I only wish the daily expiration could be a few hours later or earlier, but I guess it can't be perfect for everyone.
[2015-05-23 07:11:00] chrisxbt : yeah you're probably right. I was thinking a different contract so that you could always have something looking a little further in the future.
[2015-05-23 07:11:47] chrisxbt : Yeah friday works well with weekly futures settlement.
[2015-05-23 07:12:33] chrisxbt : And even though there is 6 observable days a 1 day left the product can probably still be useful.
[2015-05-23 07:19:20] cengel : Arthur perhaps you can shed light on the BVOL7D index? I was talkign to Sam about it yesterday, and right now there's no way to just pull the weekly observations only daily and taking every 7th
[2015-05-23 07:19:45] cengel : he said to wait until Wally is around but havent seen him pop up yet
[2015-05-23 07:21:01] BitMEX_Arthur : He's working on a solution, will let you know when we have an answer for you
[2015-05-23 07:21:20] cengel : okay thanks :)
[2015-05-23 07:21:43] BitMEX_Arthur : btw there was a new release of the excel plugin
[2015-05-23 07:21:47] BitMEX_Arthur : it supports indices now
[2015-05-23 07:22:54] cengel : okay. i only use it for showing orderbook in-sheet, all the rest i just do custom
[2015-05-23 07:25:01] BitMEX_Arthur : https://github.com/stevechk/BitMexExcel
[2015-05-23 07:41:03] cengel : has anyone read this Digital Gold book? hearing a lot of good things, even from people who have been in the scene for a while
[2015-05-23 07:41:30] cengel : http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23546676-digital-gold
[2015-05-23 09:39:01] cengel : Arthur you guys should have US President Election 2016 contracts
[2015-05-23 09:39:14] cengel : i need to hedge against if Hilldawg wins
[2015-05-23 09:39:18] BitMEX_Arthur : Lol
[2015-05-23 09:39:28] BitMEX_Arthur : What about a Non Farm Payroll contract
[2015-05-23 09:39:35] BitMEX_Arthur : that is something that isn't available on other sites
[2015-05-23 09:39:38] cengel : that would be cool too
[2015-05-23 09:39:52] cengel : but the #NFPGUesses guys on twitter ("finance twitter") hate bitcoin
[2015-05-23 09:39:59] uiop : stanley cup contract too
[2015-05-23 09:40:18] uiop : cfd on vegas odds or somethin
[2015-05-23 09:40:32] BitMEX_Arthur : yeah that looks too much like gambling
[2015-05-23 09:40:38] uiop : lol
[2015-05-23 09:40:52] BitMEX_Arthur : we don't like kicking hornets nests
[2015-05-23 09:40:54] BitMEX_Arthur : when we don't have to
[2015-05-23 09:41:04] uiop : go hawks
[2015-05-23 09:41:10] BitMEX_Arthur : go Sabres
[2015-05-23 09:41:13] BitMEX_Arthur : :(
[2015-05-23 09:41:17] uiop : rip
[2015-05-23 09:41:24] BitMEX_Arthur : man they suck now
[2015-05-23 12:14:41] cengel : is there a way to change the font of the order controls? the decimal is really difficult to see
[2015-05-23 12:16:03] BitMEX_Arthur : cengel: I will bring that up with Sam
[2015-05-23 12:18:49] cengel : it would be awesome to be able to select whether to use . or , as decimal too
[2015-05-24 00:12:12] goat : BitMEX_Arthur: are we going to see an article on the bitmex blog: We Invite You To Trade At BitMEX, The Exchange That Hasn't Created Fraudulent Documents
[2015-05-24 00:12:35] goat : We thought it might be obvious, but in case any of our customers were concerned, we have not forged documents in the history of our company.
[2015-05-24 00:12:57] goat : This is just to re-insure all of our customers, that fraud is not part of our business model.
[2015-05-24 00:14:26] BitMEX_Arthur : As much as I would love to write that post, we take the Sun Tzu approach just sit back and let our enemies kill themselves
[2015-05-24 00:33:22] goat : hahaha i know
[2015-05-24 00:33:32] goat : i was being facetious
[2015-05-24 00:33:40] BitMEX_Arthur : i know but i would love to write that
[2015-05-24 00:33:50] goat : it would be so much fun hahaha
[2015-05-24 00:34:06] BitMEX_Arthur : although most bitcoiners won't learn until they get goxxed
[2015-05-24 00:34:19] BitMEX_Arthur : we have a very advanced form of stockholm syndrom
[2015-05-24 00:35:13] goat : couldn't have said it better myself
[2015-05-24 00:37:31] goat : its hilarious that people can't just separate out the facts from their thoughts and form a reasonable conclusion
[2015-05-24 00:38:32] goat : regardless of everything else, a bitcoin exchange is a financial institution and the reason we are using bitcoin is because of the fraud of traditional financial institutions... we dont need that here
[2015-05-24 00:38:45] BitMEX_Arthur : agreed
[2015-05-24 00:39:07] goat : and we are trusting these places with our money, people should at least think twice
[2015-05-24 05:01:06] cengel : i still use OKCoin. i dont see solvency issues, just a business wiggling out of a shitty contract
[2015-05-24 05:01:26] cengel : meanwhile the big investment banks just paid $6 billion in fines for screwing customers and rigging markets...so youre damned if you do, damned if you dont
[2015-05-24 05:09:34] BitMEX_Arthur : it's up to each individual to decide how to interpret what happened
[2015-05-24 05:19:09] cengel : well if you leave stamp in January bc of their probs, you leave finex for their probs, now you leave okcoin, where is left as a fiat gateway ?
[2015-05-24 05:19:34] cengel : oh i know, let's trust American-based Kraken (lol)
[2015-05-24 05:19:48] BitMEX_Arthur : haha
[2015-05-24 05:20:02] BitMEX_Arthur : well when i want to trade in HKD i use local exchanges here
[2015-05-24 05:40:30] cengel : sure but i mean worldwide liquid exchanges
[2015-05-24 05:40:43] BitMEX_Arthur : i have confidence in bfx
[2015-05-24 05:41:10] cengel : as do I
[2015-05-24 05:45:57] Murch : May has been so fucking boring.
[2015-05-24 05:46:05] Murch : LOL
[2015-05-24 05:46:08] BitMEX_Arthur : yep
[2015-05-24 05:46:26] Murch : I like that auto replace.
[2015-05-24 06:00:16] BitMEX_Arthur : :)
[2015-05-24 06:02:28] Murch : Part of me wants to believe that this bear market might finally be coming to a close. Haven't seen this sort of flat action for so long without a dump after the ATH.
[2015-05-24 06:02:55] Murch : Not to mention the strange behavior of some of the alts over the past few days.
[2015-05-24 06:03:21] cengel : i don't think the alts are relevant. a few alt exchanges are offering margin that's bound to cause some action
[2015-05-24 06:04:13] Murch : That was just Polo for 4 pairs (including LTC). If anything, that wouldn't be relevant.
[2015-05-24 06:04:57] Murch : I'm talking about some of the coins that have been around since early 2014 seeing some ridiculous pumps. It doesn't have to mean anything though.
[2015-05-24 06:06:12] Murch : I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss alts however. I've seen LTC preempt bitcoin on moves many times.
[2015-05-24 06:08:09] cengel : the only ponzi scheme i'm going to support is Bitcoin
[2015-05-24 06:08:18] cengel : i have no room in my heart for others
[2015-05-24 06:08:52] Murch : The elephant in the room I think is the 26 million in long swaps open on Finex. Something has gotta give at some point.
[2015-05-24 06:09:22] BitMEX_Arthur : they need to get crushed