This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2017-01-27 22:20:57] rapidtrades : it's joke
[2017-01-27 22:21:06] Ugly_Old_Goat : rapidtrades: you are fool
[2017-01-27 22:21:10] rapidgains : Ugly_Old_Goat: good strat
[2017-01-27 22:21:13] rapidtrades : im slowly cashing out my coins
[2017-01-27 22:21:36] rapidtrades : no use for bitcoins anymore
[2017-01-27 22:21:40] rapidgains : with the hedge its almost free money playing the premium / discount
[2017-01-27 22:21:47] rapidtrades : volatile POS and ur not even paid to own it anymore
[2017-01-27 22:22:20] Ugly_Old_Goat : I @rapidgains It is obvious that is the right decision for you
[2017-01-27 22:22:20] rapidtrades : the permabullz can keep their coins, im out of this stupid game
[2017-01-27 22:22:31] lockhedge : Ugly_Old_Goat: "The best and safest trade is to buy March futures and sell short on another exchange" XBTH17 only trades at 1% discount, you will pay more interest for 2 month for your short
[2017-01-27 22:22:53] rapidtrades : lockhedge plz
[2017-01-27 22:22:59] rapidtrades : let him hang himself
[2017-01-27 22:23:30] rapidtrades : there's just no good way to hedge anymore
[2017-01-27 22:23:49] rapidtrades : futures are neg, swap is shit, kraken is 20%, btce is 10%
[2017-01-27 22:24:08] rapidtrades : im not paying to own bitcoins
[2017-01-27 22:24:56] Ugly_Old_Goat : lockhedge: you miss the pont. The point is their should be a carrying charge for March futures. Since there is a discount and you want to buy btc, march is the best bargain around unless you want to trade at OK coin which I do not
[2017-01-27 22:27:09] Ugly_Old_Goat : March should be +20 not -10. So there is very little risk. If market does not go to premium (which it should do) it will expire at spot. So being long mch here and short on an exchange is a near riskless trade and a guaranteed w;inner at 20-30 discount
[2017-01-27 22:28:26] Ugly_Old_Goat : Again, if you don't get it is best you leave it alone. It is not a scam. Rather it was this exchange that exposed the Chinese exchange scam of feeless fake trading
[2017-01-27 22:28:26] lockhedge : rapidtrades: you could short June (930.75) or Sept (972.60) at CF, but there is currently no cheap short-term hedge
[2017-01-27 22:28:59] rapidtrades : crypto facilities?
[2017-01-27 22:29:06] lockhedge : yes
[2017-01-27 22:29:15] rapidtrades : never used that
[2017-01-27 22:29:18] rapidtrades : how does it work
[2017-01-27 22:30:18] Ugly_Old_Goat : rapidtrades: I thought you were leaving for good. Change your mind?
[2017-01-27 22:31:27] Ugly_Old_Goat : rapidtrades: If you trade like you think, it is no wonder you think a backward market is a scam.
[2017-01-27 22:33:07] Ugly_Old_Goat : Anyhway thanks for feeding my family that past week. The opportunity to be long and collect from stubborn shorts is indeed a rare opportunity. Than k you again for not seeing it.
[2017-01-27 22:33:49] rapidtrades : 6/1 leverage....sounds good
[2017-01-27 22:34:04] rapidtrades : i know i wont be paying for the crazy gamobolores
[2017-01-27 22:37:20] lockhedge : rapidtrades: downsides: low liquidity, you have to be verified to trade, counterparty deleveraging (somehow like ADL, but triggered when your counterparty is liquidated), UI not as nice as here and engine not as fast as here pros: team can be trusted, the only regulated Bitcoin derivatives market
[2017-01-27 22:38:08] rapidtrades : lockhedge: verified as in what? have u done it?
[2017-01-27 22:38:24] rapidtrades : provide info or do the whole ID shit
[2017-01-27 22:39:05] lockhedge : same as everywhere else, scan your passport/ID and a utility bill
[2017-01-27 22:39:14] rapidtrades : ok
[2017-01-27 22:40:01] rapidtrades : it says they are regulated by the FCA
[2017-01-27 22:40:13] rapidtrades : so my $$$ is bank insured?
[2017-01-27 22:43:19] lockhedge : they say "The USD value of your bitcoins is comprehensively insured by an A-rated, Fortune 100 underwriter."
[2017-01-27 22:43:50] -_- : that makes me confident they won't go belly up
[2017-01-27 22:48:33] -_- : xmr up 5%
[2017-01-27 23:34:48] -_- : almost new XMR high
[2017-01-27 23:35:00] -_- : highest it has been in a week
[2017-01-27 23:35:12] -_- : that must have been a stop run dump before the pump
[2017-01-27 23:36:10] micmix : Ugly_Old_Goat: in bitcoin inverse futures (or swap) can stay in backwardation for months during bear market, especially now. without margin trading on cny exchanges okc and bitmex futures/swap is the only way to short or hedge larger amounts
[2017-01-27 23:44:45] Ugly_Old_Goat : micmix: Possible but I have never seen it. Can you show me an example? What is certain is that March will be a spot at expiration and likely at 20-30 premium before then. Further, you can short on margin at Kraken, Polo, and other major legit markets with no fake trades.
[2017-01-27 23:47:05] micmix : cost of shorting anywhere else is higher than 10-15% pa backwardation we had here, plus shorting inverse instrument is more profitable with lower risk
[2017-01-27 23:47:35] micmix : let me see if I can pull some data from 2 years ago
[2017-01-27 23:48:34] micmix : we've been in bull market for over 1.5 years, it's no wonder no one saw backwardation
[2017-01-27 23:50:36] Ugly_Old_Goat : Again, the backwardization is a phenomena created by speculators betting on yuan devaluation (first crash) it was exacerbated by the Chinese fake markets. Both are done. If you think market is going down you are trading the past. We have had the crash and are reset by strong hands for next leg up which is likely a whopper. But to each his own on directional trend. What is a certainty is Mch will be a spot on delivery date. The trade with very little risk is sell spot and buy March, The risk is the exchange risk on both sides which we all know can be enormous for btc exchanges.
[2017-01-27 23:53:00] Ugly_Old_Goat : I have seen backwardization. But it is rare and short lived. Again, I am old. Very old. Much older than bitcoin. Older than derivatives. Older than put and call futures options. I am not aware of any long lasting bacwardization.
[2017-01-27 23:54:43] Ugly_Old_Goat : Please show me an exception. If you cannot then March going to 20-30 premium will be coming shortly.
[2017-01-27 23:57:20] sleger : HAM
[2017-01-27 23:58:04] sleger : you have an example right now of long lasting backwardation, it's already been LONG
[2017-01-27 23:58:09] sleger : SPAM yourself
[2017-01-27 23:58:31] sleger : some admin is drunk tonight ?
[2017-01-27 23:58:45] Noobz : looks like it
[2017-01-27 23:59:53] sleger : GREG go out its friday night !
[2017-01-28 00:00:47] dodic : Ugly_Old_Goat: I am pretty new to this but was considering the reverse cash and carry on the march
[2017-01-28 00:01:11] dodic : wasn't sure if i was misunderstanding the situation
[2017-01-28 00:01:51] sleger : dodic: explain us how you'd do this ?
[2017-01-28 00:02:12] dodic : short spot, long march
[2017-01-28 00:02:31] dodic : you can't fully realize it though since you can't reinvest the short proceeds on bfx
[2017-01-28 00:02:36] lockhedge : how much interest do you pay to short spot?
[2017-01-28 00:03:36] dodic : its 0.02898 on bfx
[2017-01-28 00:05:48] sleger : dodic: short spot on finex ?
[2017-01-28 00:06:07] sleger : ok so how much would you pay total in $ per btc until mar 31 ?
[2017-01-28 00:07:05] sleger : assuming rates dont change
[2017-01-28 00:07:14] Ugly_Old_Goat : This backwarization was created by the Chinese bad exchange pollcies. It got so bad it was the margined positions that kept driving the bacwadizaztion down t minus 30. Strong hands (like me) bot as much as could. I remember a yahoo here saying at 860 we were ging to 830 cause that is where OKcoin was trading. Same yahoo putting out crap that we were going tyo 400-500. I responded we needed to go down 30 to 830 before we go to 500. Guess what we never broke below 855. 760 buy with 735 stop was perfect trade but I was already long up the ying yang and morons we paying me to stay long but I usually enter to early and bot at 885 with only a 20 discount. Anyway to each his own. But March shuould return to premium very soon. And guarantted to be at spot at expiration. Funny how those that don't want to hear anything contrary to their position consider spam. Again show a market with a prolonged backwardization. I am waiting. . . . Please show me. I have an open mind but don 's
[2017-01-28 00:07:17] BitMEX_Greg : sleger: whats your excuse?
[2017-01-28 00:07:49] sleger : BitMEX_Greg: reservation is at 8.30 but having champ at the hotel before
[2017-01-28 00:08:48] sleger : Ugly_Old_Goat: right now is a long backwardation
[2017-01-28 00:08:55] BitMEX_Greg : So the troll box isn't your entertainment of the night like mine?
[2017-01-28 00:08:56] sleger : or define clearly what is long
[2017-01-28 00:09:10] sleger : BitMEX_Greg: not for tonight, sorry
[2017-01-28 00:09:26] sleger : i heard you guys are making rapid unhappy so he might not entertain much
[2017-01-28 00:10:17] ronensinger : Im waiting for some action
[2017-01-28 00:10:31] dodic : sleger: ~1.7% interest on the short until expiration i believe
[2017-01-28 00:10:32] ronensinger : Didn't this exchange used to trade China A50 Futures
[2017-01-28 00:10:46] BitMEX_Greg : I get it though, shorts have been raped. Odd market given the quick pumps and continual discount
[2017-01-28 00:11:05] Ugly_Old_Goat : dodic: You can buy March and sell perp and pick pu the diffence between now an expire
[2017-01-28 00:12:08] Ugly_Old_Goat : Most likely you will be able sell at 20-30 over sometime between now and then
[2017-01-28 00:12:37] Ugly_Old_Goat : It is like shooting fish in a barrel and is a rare situation indeed
[2017-01-28 00:12:47] sleger : dodic: ok so 1.7% (im not checking your number) is what ? 16$, and you long march until expi to capture what ? 9$ ? how do you make money ?
[2017-01-28 00:14:21] Ugly_Old_Goat : I have been long both and collecting funding on perp. The backwardization is also helping to correct thew spread. Perpdays are minimal now but stiill positive.
[2017-01-28 00:15:51] Ugly_Old_Goat : The carrying charge normally goes to shorts. When it gets back to normal I will be selling any non spec perp longs
[2017-01-28 00:18:48] dodic : sleger: yeah, that's what i realized, it doesn't really work unless the discount is massive or you could reinvest the USD proceeds from the short for interest. which afaik you can't do on any exchange, and i wonder if part of the reason why exchange interest rates are high
[2017-01-28 00:18:52] Ugly_Old_Goat : You can probably safely buy march and sell perp here. But when funding was huge in favor of longs the only place to sell was another exchage.
[2017-01-28 00:19:20] sleger : dodic: you're welcome for making me force you to do a+b
[2017-01-28 00:19:20] Ugly_Old_Goat : I will be very surprised if we get back to 20-30 discount
[2017-01-28 00:19:39] dodic : Ugly_Old_Goat: The average is about 0.04 shorts pay I think
[2017-01-28 00:19:50] sleger : Ugly_Old_Goat: im on the same trade as you, im short 600k of swap and long march even more
[2017-01-28 00:21:33] micmix : my bot is short swap and long futures as well, but that doesn't mean I don't believe in backwardation :smile:
[2017-01-28 00:23:00] lockhedge : my mm bot is long swap, and i sold spot today
[2017-01-28 00:25:43] micmix : will see what happens at funding time, usually people overreact to avoid funding and bots take advantage
[2017-01-28 00:28:36] sleger : ahah I just checked I paid about 12btc of funding on swap since jan 22 when it turned negative
[2017-01-28 00:28:53] Sultan Pepper : Tschüss 1m charts...
[2017-01-28 00:30:03] BitMEX_Greg : sleger: are you going to keep telling the trollbox about it for the next 2 years? : p
[2017-01-28 00:30:36] sleger : BitMEX_Greg: it's the first time cut me some slack :)
[2017-01-28 00:30:50] sleger : And i'm not complaining, rules didnt change...
[2017-01-28 00:31:12] BitMEX_Greg : haha
[2017-01-28 00:31:51] micmix : and you probably made 120btc collecting funding before that ;-) @sleger
[2017-01-28 00:32:58] sleger : micmix: not really, funding hasnt been great so far, because it was high but capped for a short time on the way up, and average-high for a long time on the way down
[2017-01-28 00:34:12] lockhedge : sleger: is the idea behind this position to be long volatility?
[2017-01-28 00:34:22] sleger : no
[2017-01-28 00:34:27] micmix : yeah, 0.375% cap is too low, it doesn't keep swap in check
[2017-01-28 00:37:23] Ugly_Old_Goat : Look Idid not get it at first and paid way too much here for a time on the way up. But this exchange is a super tool for hedging. One thing I have learned. I do not hold a perp (what you call swap) and leave the market for a few days. But I am long March at a discount with no worry except direction.
[2017-01-28 00:39:40] Ugly_Old_Goat : Direction can be hedged elswhere, but probably very safe now with perp here since funding is virtually non-existent and probably start rewardings shorts again soon.
[2017-01-28 00:39:48] sleger : "except direction" yeah well thats the whole point !!!
[2017-01-28 00:39:59] Ugly_Old_Goat : I don't trade with bots
[2017-01-28 00:42:00] sleger : i dont trade with goats
[2017-01-28 00:42:18] Ugly_Old_Goat : sleger: Well, that is way I sold out over 1000 and bot back in under 800. Mostly like there is not major move for a while and we simply consolodate between Jan highs and lows. The only play now is the spread is is not much but good safe bet it there is such athing
[2017-01-28 00:43:09] Ugly_Old_Goat : sleger: If you trade here you do. You trade with an Ugly Old one with chronic diarherra
[2017-01-28 00:44:23] Ugly_Old_Goat : sleger: You need to take your hand off my thigh
[2017-01-28 00:44:24] lockhedge : micmix: do you know if there are still open margin positions on Chinese spot exchanges? iirc you said it can take up to 14 days to close them
[2017-01-28 00:45:41] micmix : yes, some margin positions are still open. your margin loan expires as usual but you cannot borrow anymore @lockhedge
[2017-01-28 00:46:39] micmix : last day to borrow on okc was 21 or 22 when they still had 1x leverage available
[2017-01-28 00:46:57] Ugly_Old_Goat : @micmix Wow. ok now that explains the backwardization get so deep and lasting so long
[2017-01-28 00:47:01] lockhedge : micmix: do you have any idea how big the outstanding amount could be?
[2017-01-28 00:47:18] micmix : that's why I'm de-risked for another week at least
[2017-01-28 00:48:49] micmix : lockhedge: I don't think there is any data but cny margin market was huge, you could take 100k cny loans several times per day with no issues
[2017-01-28 00:48:56] Ugly_Old_Goat : micmix: Looks to me like no fee trading really has hidden fees taken in the form of liqudity. No such thing as free
[2017-01-28 00:50:24] micmix : lockhedge: and I think huobi loans were up to 30 days, huge market as well
[2017-01-28 00:52:26] Ugly_Old_Goat : So basically OK and huobi created a mess for their clients and the rest of the world benefited. Don't blame Bitmex for the bacxkwardization. It was simply the market response to a mess started elsewhere
[2017-01-28 00:53:53] Ugly_Old_Goat : The first shoe was the unexpected upward valuation of the yuan, followed by a visit by the police that said no more. Run an exchange, not a gambling halll
[2017-01-28 00:54:46] Ugly_Old_Goat : I figured everything before it happen but now I understand why. Thanks @sleger
[2017-01-28 00:57:46] Ugly_Old_Goat : Expect slow markets and return to normal as speculators on Chinese exchanges lick their wounds. Again Bitmex is best becase it is not free, it rewards market makers, it provide extreme leverage if you want it. and it socializes losses when things get out of hand
[2017-01-28 00:58:25] Ugly_Old_Goat : This place is for speculators and hedgers, no investors
[2017-01-28 01:01:26] Ugly_Old_Goat : micmix: Rather thank you. You opened my eyes to what happened. Did not really fully understand the cause until you clued me in to no fee leveraged trading with faked liquidity
[2017-01-28 01:02:07] Ugly_Old_Goat : Another thing ab out this place is you get deposit with one confirm which is essential in crazy markets
[2017-01-28 01:05:47] Ugly_Old_Goat : I am still waiting for an example of a long lasting backward market.. . .
[2017-01-28 01:11:18] lockhedge : Ugly_Old_Goat: "I am still waiting for an example" CNYUSD futures (=inverse USDCNY) http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/fx/emerging-market/chinese-renminbi.html
[2017-01-28 01:13:48] lockhedge : so in theory you are wrong, but you might be right being bullish on bitcoin
[2017-01-28 01:22:15] Ugly_Old_Goat : lockhedge: Your mixing apple with oranges. Yes, backwardization can happen and remain on a currency, especially a weak one. Think Zimbabwi. That is wrong. Currencies are fiat. Created and contolled by governmments. Incidentally the same thing happens here on shitcoins because they are created. I see the problem here is you really do not understand btc and why it is the blockchain and why there are not others. Btc started at zero. It had no ICO. It was built slowly for years on proof of work. btc is really a commodity much like sliver or gold. Not like corn or soybeans which depends on production.
[2017-01-28 01:23:18] laisee : its backwardation, not backwardization. commods gammar nazi at ur service.
[2017-01-28 01:24:16] Ugly_Old_Goat : laisee: And I suppose your fearts don't stink
[2017-01-28 01:24:38] laisee : its farts, not fearts. thank you for your attention. ;-)
[2017-01-28 01:24:44] Ugly_Old_Goat : Excuse me, I think farts is the correct spelling
[2017-01-28 01:24:56] Ugly_Old_Goat : You beat me to it
[2017-01-28 01:25:04] laisee : snap!
[2017-01-28 01:26:29] abbey : meanwhile btc goes up
[2017-01-28 01:27:00] laisee : interesting topic ... does Bitcoin have convenience yield or carrying costs somehow? can bitcoin exchanges be analyzed like gas or oil supply chain network?
[2017-01-28 01:28:40] Ugly_Old_Goat : I think so to a degree
[2017-01-28 01:30:13] Ugly_Old_Goat : But the measure comes from analyzing the true users. The true users are those with no other option. Chris DeRose and Tone Vays are a good place to start
[2017-01-28 01:31:58] Ugly_Old_Goat : True users are things like back page, MJ, and illegal drugs and those that need to avoid currency controls
[2017-01-28 01:35:44] Ugly_Old_Goat : But there is a true carrying charge depending on the currency it is priced it
[2017-01-28 01:36:58] Ugly_Old_Goat : Bitcoin use can only become widespread with the adoption of sound commercial banking which has been forgotten for 100 years and needs to be relearnd.
[2017-01-28 01:38:44] Ugly_Old_Goat : It is coming but slowly and unseen at first. Legal MJ growers in US need btc banking so it will likely develop their first since use a bank risks gets funds seized since legal in states but illegal in fed banks
[2017-01-28 01:39:10] Ugly_Old_Goat : Any thanks for all the information today. Good night
[2017-01-28 01:40:23] laisee : nite
[2017-01-28 01:40:24] yungyang : You the GOAT fam
[2017-01-28 01:40:43] yungyang : gnight ?
[2017-01-28 01:44:30] laisee : ought to be pssible to chart BTC supply chain from miners to exchanges to users to vendors & onwards.
[2017-01-28 01:51:29] -_- : someone wants in xmr
[2017-01-28 01:51:48] -_- : still not sure next big 10%+ move or just a random buyer getting in
[2017-01-28 01:52:36] -_- : no bots insta selling 80btc worth of xmr
[2017-01-28 01:56:30] -_- : damn
[2017-01-28 01:56:31] -_- : any xmr news
[2017-01-28 01:57:58] -_- : fake out down then pump
[2017-01-28 01:59:15] -_- : someone putting hundreds of btc into xmr right meow
[2017-01-28 02:01:18] pigeons : shhhhhhh
[2017-01-28 02:01:39] -_- : wtf
[2017-01-28 02:01:43] -_- : i guess i should have fomo long
[2017-01-28 02:03:42] -_- : i like when pumper takes down pump wall. then i wonder if they are going to put it higher
[2017-01-28 02:03:45] -_- : and yes they did
[2017-01-28 02:04:15] -_- : china add xmr?
[2017-01-28 02:12:12] -_- : ah i know. bitfinex stolen coins going into xmr
[2017-01-28 02:23:16] -_- : all i know is about 1000 btc was just used to buy and put up buy walls
[2017-01-28 02:23:32] -_- : choochoo anon coin of the future
[2017-01-28 02:29:44] Ugly_Old_Goat : -_-: For what its worth I think it iegit and just bot 100 1480-81 and that is me at 14187. We should take ofut the 18748 spike
[2017-01-28 02:30:24] -_- : yeah btc is boring and big alt needs to go boom
[2017-01-28 02:30:48] -_- : xmr 13% so far is good
[2017-01-28 02:30:57] Ugly_Old_Goat : Monero and litecoin are only other legit alts
[2017-01-28 02:31:00] -_- : sucks i didnt long it right after settlement
[2017-01-28 02:31:13] Ugly_Old_Goat : Maybe counterparty, but can't trade here
[2017-01-28 02:32:37] Ugly_Old_Goat : Its a good bet, no reason to jump in until a real breakout. Again just a chuckle for laffs trade. But I have done very well in Monero but never traded it here
[2017-01-28 02:35:03] Ugly_Old_Goat : BTY I really like XCP here and committed 5% of my btc to it at these levels
[2017-01-28 02:37:23] -_- : i've also seen xmr dump a ton for no reason too
[2017-01-28 02:46:43] ronensinger : Any programmers here?
[2017-01-28 02:50:07] Sultan Pepper : I can program the shet out of a TI-83
[2017-01-28 02:50:31] Sultan Pepper : Basic, yo
[2017-01-28 03:11:51] MikeHunt : ronensinger: y u ask?
[2017-01-28 03:15:34] REKT : Liquidated long on `XMR7D`: sell 500 @ 0.013769
[2017-01-28 03:15:44] enki0182 : MikeHunt: he wants you to build him a bot based on his trading strategem.
[2017-01-28 03:15:57] enki0182 : me too plz mike :P
[2017-01-28 03:16:02] enki0182 : :)
[2017-01-28 03:16:06] enki0182 : : )
[2017-01-28 03:17:45] FreeBitcoins : bot that re-enters positions after ADL would be perfect
[2017-01-28 03:19:05] enki0182 : FreeBitcoins: yerp.... it would be a busy bot tho : :P
[2017-01-28 03:20:11] enki0182 : but you have to give cred to the ability to 100x on mex. im happy to see mex climbing charts as an mercentile exchange.... its a good platform
[2017-01-28 03:20:27] enki0182 : never 100x'd myself though (intentionally rofl)
[2017-01-28 03:23:02] ronensinger : Im a programmer myself
[2017-01-28 03:23:09] ronensinger : I can program anything for you guys for a price
[2017-01-28 03:23:23] ronensinger : I was just wondering if they're any other programmer here
[2017-01-28 03:24:37] MikeHunt : ronensinger: i know c#
[2017-01-28 03:24:52] MikeHunt : done a bit of php/css/other stuff in past
[2017-01-28 03:24:55] enki0182 : I really just want to know what i can use to get a nice UI with all my dim'd var's and gets into a DB... then perform code (buys and sells) on the data via a nice little UI displaying what its all doing... but i dont even know where to start
[2017-01-28 03:25:28] enki0182 : been 12 years since I did VB.net... and that shit dont work well no more... the worlds gone to REST
[2017-01-28 03:25:58] enki0182 : ronensinger: where would you start?
[2017-01-28 03:26:00] enki0182 : csharp?
[2017-01-28 03:26:12] enki0182 : csharpUI? Swagger?
[2017-01-28 03:27:39] ronensinger : I would start with PHP
[2017-01-28 03:27:39] enki0182 : ive read up a bit and I know BitMex_Sam seems to be a 1337 programmer for the stuff... but I have to re-educate myself again to be able to even ask for help without wasting his time.
[2017-01-28 03:27:48] ronensinger : And make it into a website
[2017-01-28 03:28:02] ronensinger : That way, you can access if anywhere
[2017-01-28 03:28:08] ronensinger : I'd be willing to do it for you
[2017-01-28 03:28:10] ronensinger : For a price
[2017-01-28 03:28:29] ronensinger : enki0182: Let me know if you're interested
[2017-01-28 03:29:22] ronensinger : enki0182: Are you there?
[2017-01-28 03:29:31] enki0182 : Im interested... but doubt i could justify paying you what your worth.
[2017-01-28 03:30:00] ronensinger : How about I give you my email and we can discuss the specifics
[2017-01-28 03:30:19] enki0182 : i would personally grind the hours away on google re educating myself on how to do it.... Im a stinge... lol
[2017-01-28 03:30:41] ronensinger : enki0182: Well, lets talk it out
[2017-01-28 03:31:00] enki0182 : happy to... I would place my email in the bitmex trollbox but its <fullname>@outlook.com... so i would rather not.
[2017-01-28 03:31:07] ronensinger : I see
[2017-01-28 03:31:28] ronensinger : I'll give you mine then
[2017-01-28 03:31:31] enki0182 : too bad bitmex doesnt have PM function
[2017-01-28 03:31:37] enki0182 : ok
[2017-01-28 03:33:11] ronensinger : enki0182: Go get on the IRC chat
[2017-01-28 03:33:11] FreeBitcoins : btc usd looks ok to buy but cny so bearish
[2017-01-28 03:33:20] ronensinger : enki0182: And send me a Private message
[2017-01-28 03:33:37] ronensinger : enki0182: You can get to the IRC chat by clicking on the IRC button on the top right of the trollbox
[2017-01-28 03:34:05] ronen : Are you here, enki?
[2017-01-28 03:34:48] enki0182 : yeh
[2017-01-28 03:34:58] ronensinger : enki0182: Have you gone on the IRC chat?
[2017-01-28 03:35:01] ronensinger : Send me a PM there
[2017-01-28 03:35:05] ronensinger : My username is: ronen
[2017-01-28 03:35:14] enki0182 : champ - on my way
[2017-01-28 03:37:33] ronen : Are you here?
[2017-01-28 03:37:36] ronen : Enki?
[2017-01-28 03:38:37] ronensinger : enki0182: ?
[2017-01-28 03:40:01] enki0182 : ronensinger: email sent to you
[2017-01-28 03:40:04] enki0182 : ty
[2017-01-28 03:41:05] ronensinger : enki0182: Got it.
[2017-01-28 03:42:19] enki0182 : ronensinger: thanks - im off for now - going to go eat something and let my long sit here and ferment a bit....
[2017-01-28 03:48:05] FreeBitcoins : mmmm kimchi
[2017-01-28 03:48:47] blacktuesday : 33k bid hello
[2017-01-28 03:55:37] Sultan Pepper : ❌?➡️❌????
[2017-01-28 05:44:01] yungyang : hmm
[2017-01-28 05:48:53] enki0182 : we going up or down guys?
[2017-01-28 05:53:14] FreeBitcoins : no liquididty so grab a bunch of coins or cash and you can make it up as you go
[2017-01-28 05:53:46] bitmors : Question... Where does realized PNL come from?
[2017-01-28 05:54:37] bitmors : I have a position that is -0.07btc unrealized... And +0.58 realized... What does that mean?
[2017-01-28 05:56:41] MikeHunt : bitmors: unrealized applies to open trades
[2017-01-28 05:57:04] MikeHunt : ie: if ur trading a loss but u havent closed it yet, u havent realized the loss yet
[2017-01-28 05:59:35] guacamole : anyone know if bitvc futures is basically dead? don't see any volume there - maybe the exchange fees killed off liquidity from arbitrage traders?
[2017-01-28 06:03:51] FreeBitcoins : this lull in trade activity is atrocious. cant get filled on okc and btcc spread is buttery. prob trade usd/euro after closing this...
[2017-01-28 06:27:47] MikeHunt : expect dead for next week
[2017-01-28 06:27:53] MikeHunt : due to china holiday
[2017-01-28 07:00:34] VenCap : Feb 4th it last until.
[2017-01-28 07:00:43] VenCap : But really, you guys fully stop trading on "holidays"
[2017-01-28 07:00:50] VenCap : so it does not have that big an impact.
[2017-01-28 07:30:50] Papou : we need volatility back...this is dumb
[2017-01-28 07:41:15] VenCap : Good Morning Papou Doc. hows your Shorts looknig today?
[2017-01-28 07:53:16] -_- : man
[2017-01-28 07:53:19] -_- : yolo 25x long xmr
[2017-01-28 07:53:25] -_- : anoncoin the future
[2017-01-28 07:53:26] -_- : sorry btc
[2017-01-28 07:54:39] VenCap : xmr pnd coin. controlled by a few people. Its going to introduce Segwit, just like Stratis.
[2017-01-28 08:21:46] -_- : 0kcoin climbing. few more buys and a new high
[2017-01-28 08:31:23] -_- : futures new high
[2017-01-28 08:32:40] aethlios : low volume slow up doesn't convince futures, still discount.
[2017-01-28 08:32:43] micmix : futures were over 1200
[2017-01-28 08:33:03] micmix : no new highs in sight
[2017-01-28 08:35:04] rapidgains : $950 incoming over the next week
[2017-01-28 08:36:55] BTCKing : Bitfinex rallying right now
[2017-01-28 08:42:53] rullwull : currently a few dollars move considering as a rally ?
[2017-01-28 08:56:11] Yuppie : Anyone has some colour on alts? Looking to diverify a bit. Stratis and Pascalcoin in particular...
[2017-01-28 09:02:58] BTCKing : most alts won't gain traction. look into the ones that already have traction (bigish market cap)
[2017-01-28 09:03:07] BTCKing : like ethereum
[2017-01-28 09:06:32] irishsia : Yuppie: Siacoin. Thank me later. Look at the tech and judge for yourself though.
[2017-01-28 09:09:50] aethlios : 1ST (firstblood will rally hard in june when beta version of platform is up, also entering polo then)
[2017-01-28 09:22:09] micmix : yes, just buy all of them, 99% of them will flop but you might get luck with one or two
[2017-01-28 09:22:18] micmix : *lucky
[2017-01-28 09:22:58] micmix : and you will feel like super smart big VC ;-)
[2017-01-28 09:23:36] Yuppie : The more I think about it the more massive a move over Chinese New Year could actually be. With low vols a massive directional move could be unfolded
[2017-01-28 09:24:59] Yuppie : Thx for the tips in alts
[2017-01-28 09:40:26] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: buy 6800 @ 919.45
[2017-01-28 09:46:47] herpinator : interesting how split the market is between east and west
[2017-01-28 12:59:35] al : Yuppie: LTC looks like it has triple bottomed, picked up a few hundred
[2017-01-28 14:41:17] Derreck : 0kcoin daily volume is $2M lol
[2017-01-28 14:42:13] Derreck : if it goes down to $1M it would be like 1000x fall in three weeks.
[2017-01-28 15:01:15] BTC-Noob : what is the difference between bots and users
[2017-01-28 15:02:04] Sultan Pepper : Bots don't scream when you put them in the oven
[2017-01-28 15:33:29] herpinator : Sultan Pepper: lol!
[2017-01-28 15:41:27] birdie numn : volatility is dead. long live the volatility
[2017-01-28 16:39:42] -_- : only 664 users. all my friends getting rekt
[2017-01-28 16:41:14] Putin : anyone heard of ban on bitcoin for marijuana sales?
[2017-01-28 16:42:37] -_- : no
[2017-01-28 16:44:59] herpinator : this is so boring I think I'll come back in a few weeks
[2017-01-28 16:48:55] Putin : https://www.rt.com/usa/375343-washington-marijuana-bitcoin-ban/
[2017-01-28 17:03:31] Shaman : ugh
[2017-01-28 17:05:58] Sultan Pepper : ?????<crickets
[2017-01-28 17:07:08] Sultan Pepper : Chinese; turning day traders into swing traders overnight.
[2017-01-28 17:11:15] -_- : china needs to stop celebrating new years and get back to moving the price up and down 5%
[2017-01-28 17:15:13] Naelbest : Hi, guys! Anybody can tell me how can I use Bitmex?
[2017-01-28 17:16:27] Naelbest : Here is my Wechat. Add me in to chat more.
[2017-01-28 17:16:29] Naelbest : Naelbest_
[2017-01-28 17:17:18] Rado2 : Naelbest: Do you have a specific question?
[2017-01-28 17:17:44] Naelbest : Yeah, I have.
[2017-01-28 17:17:46] Rado2 : This platform is not for newbie traders
[2017-01-28 17:17:57] Naelbest : Oh, so, how can I start?
[2017-01-28 17:18:18] Rado2 : try trading on the Testnet first
[2017-01-28 17:18:25] aethlios : Naelbest: with minimum (like 10 contracts) to start learning
[2017-01-28 17:18:33] Rado2 : https://testnet.bitmex.com/app/trade/XBTUSD
[2017-01-28 17:18:50] Naelbest : Thanks! So helpful. Are you based in China?
[2017-01-28 17:18:55] aethlios : better use real market with 10 contracts.
[2017-01-28 17:20:52] Naelbest : Yeah, thanks. If anyone wants to guide me, please email me at "naelbest@buaa.edu.cn"
[2017-01-28 17:21:31] Naelbest : Because we can do something in Africa. I have good connection for that.
[2017-01-28 17:23:03] Sultan Pepper : Unfortunately very few people here, myself included, want to make you money. We'd all rather take it, honestly. I'd be glad to explain how it works, but if you want to take our money you'll have to figure out your own strategy
[2017-01-28 17:24:25] Sultan Pepper : *meysel excluded*
[2017-01-28 17:24:34] Sultan Pepper : myself, geeze
[2017-01-28 18:04:06] ronensinger : Naelbest: Hey
[2017-01-28 18:14:52] Rado2 : very sloooooow
[2017-01-28 18:15:01] Rado2 : weekends not worth trading at the moment
[2017-01-28 18:21:31] Rado2 : 25 min no trades
[2017-01-28 18:41:18] Naelbest : Sultan Pepper: I know but sharing is caring sometimes.
[2017-01-28 18:41:30] Naelbest : Also, we could do other business together.
[2017-01-28 18:41:40] Naelbest : ronensinger: Hi
[2017-01-28 19:13:49] ronensinger : Naelbest: What's up?
[2017-01-28 19:15:05] -_- : only worth trading xmr it seems
[2017-01-28 20:26:55] -_- : all right guys. i'm gonna single handily move the market
[2017-01-28 20:27:03] -_- : had enough of this sideways bs
[2017-01-28 20:28:38] Obama : which way you movin it?
[2017-01-28 20:29:12] -_- : gonna pump it up a few pennies
[2017-01-28 20:29:21] Obama : just to be clear
[2017-01-28 20:29:22] -_- : i'm gonna make a splash
[2017-01-28 20:29:26] Obama : you said you were going to pump what?
[2017-01-28 20:29:43] -_- : gonna pump btc
[2017-01-28 20:29:55] -_- : jk
[2017-01-28 20:30:01] -_- : i'm gonna shotgun a beer instead
[2017-01-28 20:30:09] rapidgains : prob gonna pump tho lol
[2017-01-28 20:30:21] PARAFFIN : Hmm low volume =
[2017-01-28 20:30:22] -_- : i drew some lines. still unclear when it will pump
[2017-01-28 20:30:23] PARAFFIN : ?
[2017-01-28 20:30:29] -_- : china partying for a few more days
[2017-01-28 20:30:30] PARAFFIN : Why no move?
[2017-01-28 20:30:48] -_- : not even sure if china leads any more
[2017-01-28 20:31:17] -_- : i'm actually more excited about ltc
[2017-01-28 20:31:56] -_- : http://litecoinblockhalf.com/segwit.php
[2017-01-28 20:32:20] -_- : gotta give it 3 days or so to see how close they are to 75%
[2017-01-28 20:32:39] -_- : might be what sets off the LTC pump
[2017-01-28 20:33:05] -_- : what sucks though is i rather hold LTC and long 20x on 0kcoin quarterly
[2017-01-28 20:33:13] -_- : cause ltc market on bitmex sucks
[2017-01-28 20:34:02] sleger : just do that then
[2017-01-28 20:34:51] -_- : solid idea sleger.
[2017-01-28 20:35:06] -_- : then i'll bring my winnings back to bitmex cause i only got love for bitmex <3
[2017-01-28 21:15:59] Yuppie : -_-: sane here
[2017-01-28 21:16:12] Yuppie : same...?
[2017-01-28 21:16:43] Yuppie : OkCoin LTC futures are fine
[2017-01-28 21:21:44] Yuppie : Wonder if there is ever going to be some action in ZEC. Probably not...
[2017-01-28 21:28:52] PARAFFIN : BTC preparing for a PUMP ?
[2017-01-28 21:31:01] Ahhere : PARAFFIN: always
[2017-01-28 21:32:29] PARAFFIN : Ahhere: always? When? When always?? Wthf
[2017-01-28 21:42:49] -_- : bull flagging btc
[2017-01-28 21:42:53] -_- : any day now
[2017-01-28 21:42:59] -_- : the great 2% pump will happen
[2017-01-28 21:48:27] Noobz : lol
[2017-01-28 21:50:43] PARAFFIN : -_-: you long 10000x?
[2017-01-28 21:51:21] -_- : yeah man. 100 accounts 100x long
[2017-01-28 21:51:22] -_- : lets do this
[2017-01-28 21:52:46] Ahhere : PARAFFIN: @-_-wair I'm nervous going long if you guys are long too.
[2017-01-28 21:52:49] PARAFFIN : -_-: OK
[2017-01-28 21:53:08] PARAFFIN : im always long
[2017-01-28 21:53:38] Ahhere : Always
[2017-01-28 21:55:00] arougkalos : whats the difference between xbt usd and xbtHusd?why someone to choose to trade xbtH instead of xbt?
[2017-01-28 21:58:42] BitMEX_Greg : arougkalos: XBTH is a future, expiry is in March. XBTUSD is a perpetual swap contract with no expiry. They are two different instruments.
[2017-01-28 22:00:39] arougkalos : and whats the point of this?is there anything special that will turn people to go to xbth instead of normal xbt and get in and out whenever they want?
[2017-01-28 22:04:30] BitMEX_Greg : You can enter and exit both contracts freely, The difference is that a future may trade at a significant basis (premium or discount) while the swap is anchored to the spot price. However the swap entails periodic funding payments, as such the two instruments have different needs for different types of traders
[2017-01-28 22:05:44] arougkalos : ok....thank you for the intro :)
[2017-01-28 22:06:22] arougkalos : i see you know what you are talking about
[2017-01-28 22:06:24] arougkalos : so tell me
[2017-01-28 22:06:29] arougkalos : long or short ?
[2017-01-28 22:06:30] arougkalos : :P
[2017-01-28 22:06:35] arougkalos : i am short
[2017-01-28 22:14:37] -_- : whales still not done selling. they got loads of btc to sell all the way up.
[2017-01-28 22:22:15] PARAFFIN : the drop from 1180 was crazy
[2017-01-28 22:51:56] cookielito : Hey guys can anyone tell me ehat the funding rate is?
[2017-01-28 22:52:03] cookielito : Cant see it on the phone
[2017-01-28 22:52:20] PARAFFIN : .008
[2017-01-28 22:52:37] cookielito : No more heavy duty negative rates
[2017-01-28 22:52:40] cookielito : Crap
[2017-01-28 23:58:05] Sultan Pepper : Yep, I held a 25x all-in long at 917 for 3 pay periods though! That was nice
[2017-01-28 23:58:49] Sultan Pepper : And I pushed out at 919 when the rates flipped back
[2017-01-29 00:15:20] Adriana : xmr pump. time to fomo buy
[2017-01-29 00:21:48] yungyang : too late fam
[2017-01-29 00:30:10] BTCKing : How come my withdrawals keep getting canceled?
[2017-01-29 00:30:59] BTCKing : I've been trying to get bitcoin out of here for 48 hours. It's only once a day they get processed and it's canceled twice, wtf?
[2017-01-29 00:31:58] sleger : arent you the scammer guy
[2017-01-29 00:37:26] Papou : are u confirming the withdrawl?
[2017-01-29 00:41:09] BTCKing : How do you confirm a withdrawal. What do you mean?
[2017-01-29 00:41:51] BTCKing : It says pending then I wait and after 13:00 UTC it says that it was canceled and the Bitcoin is left in my account
[2017-01-29 00:42:04] Papou : u have to click a link in ur email
[2017-01-29 00:42:07] Papou : to confirm
[2017-01-29 00:42:31] enki0182 : BTCKing: go long or short by 100x and wait 5 mins - account will be empty... problem solved
[2017-01-29 00:43:11] BTCKing : My accounts up because I don't do that...
[2017-01-29 00:44:06] BTCKing : Ah okay @Papou I didn't do that. That's why it's not working
[2017-01-29 00:51:15] ronensinger : enki0182: Hey enki
[2017-01-29 00:52:51] enki0182 : ronensinger: hiya
[2017-01-29 02:02:01] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBCH17`: buy 1000 @ 6369.5
[2017-01-29 02:34:16] Sultan Pepper : Yo this place is LIT
[2017-01-29 03:01:57] bullwhale : Sultan Pepper: awks
[2017-01-29 03:50:13] Ahhere : Sultan Pepper: @bullwhale lolz
[2017-01-29 04:44:58] Rado2 : BitMEX_Greg: .BVOL10M is reporting as 0 and messing up my MM bot
[2017-01-29 04:45:55] Rado2 : looks like it's back to 0.01
[2017-01-29 04:46:52] Rado2 : that was weird
[2017-01-29 04:49:51] micmix : Rado2: volatility indexes are rounded to 2 decimals and can be 0
[2017-01-29 04:53:22] micmix : 'indexes' or 'indices'? where is grammar police when you need it?
[2017-01-29 04:54:52] Rado2 : lol
[2017-01-29 04:55:24] Rado2 : micmix: back all the way to 0.11 now
[2017-01-29 04:55:49] Rado2 : when it went to 0 my bot executed all 3 of my step orders
[2017-01-29 04:56:10] micmix : 10m is not robust at all, jumps from 0 to 0.2 with no real volatility changes
[2017-01-29 04:56:36] micmix : Rado2: you have wrong math somewhere
[2017-01-29 04:56:36] Rado2 : I am noticing this first hand now
[2017-01-29 04:57:10] Rado2 : micmix: math is correct if the spread becomes 0
[2017-01-29 04:57:31] micmix : spread can't become 0, you should check for 1 tick
[2017-01-29 04:58:04] Rado2 : how is 1 tick going to help?
[2017-01-29 04:58:17] Rado2 : oh
[2017-01-29 04:58:18] Rado2 : I see
[2017-01-29 04:58:23] micmix : min spread is one tick, if it's already 1 tick it can't be improved
[2017-01-29 04:58:34] Rado2 : right
[2017-01-29 04:58:37] Rado2 : need to add this
[2017-01-29 04:58:48] micmix : yep, or you will end up paying taker fees
[2017-01-29 04:59:19] Rado2 : micmix: No, I have the parameter in my orders that will not allow taker fees
[2017-01-29 04:59:38] micmix : ok, that will save you ;-)
[2017-01-29 04:59:45] Rado2 : :-)
[2017-01-29 05:00:04] Rado2 : what should I use for volatility?
[2017-01-29 05:00:13] Rado2 : I know you said you calculate your own
[2017-01-29 05:00:24] micmix : calculate your own based on trade data
[2017-01-29 05:00:37] Rado2 : but is there anything simple I can use that is better than BVOL
[2017-01-29 05:01:11] Rado2 : micmix: based on BitMEX trade data?
[2017-01-29 05:01:32] micmix : even something simple like stdev of log change will work
[2017-01-29 05:02:34] micmix : bitmex trade data is the easiest way, look at BVOL formula in reference section and do something similar
[2017-01-29 05:03:05] Rado2 : thanks
[2017-01-29 05:03:23] Rado2 : will have to pull out the memories of my University years
[2017-01-29 05:03:48] micmix : np, but full disclosure: I'm not using bitmex trade data, I'm using data from multiple exchanges
[2017-01-29 05:04:05] Rado2 : I know
[2017-01-29 05:04:07] Rado2 : you told me
[2017-01-29 05:04:11] micmix : not using stdev either for that matter, but you asked for something simple ;-)
[2017-01-29 05:04:13] Rado2 : And I will get there one day
[2017-01-29 05:04:17] Rado2 : step by step
[2017-01-29 05:04:18] Rado2 : :-)
[2017-01-29 05:04:48] Rado2 : for me most important was that my logic makes sense and it's profitable
[2017-01-29 05:04:59] Rado2 : I think I have achieved this now
[2017-01-29 05:05:14] Rado2 : I have a list of things that I need to work on
[2017-01-29 05:05:17] micmix : that's great
[2017-01-29 05:05:19] Rado2 : need to prioratize :-)
[2017-01-29 05:05:31] Rado2 : prioritize
[2017-01-29 05:53:19] Apocalyptic : Rado2: is that you crowding the swap orderbook recently ?
[2017-01-29 05:53:55] Rado2 : Apocalyptic: lol
[2017-01-29 05:54:17] Apocalyptic : there's some new MM bot in town agressively killing the spread
[2017-01-29 05:54:45] micmix : ^^ that works until it doesn't when volatility returns :-)
[2017-01-29 05:55:01] Apocalyptic : micmix: can't wait
[2017-01-29 05:59:08] Apocalyptic : finally some action
[2017-01-29 05:59:45] Rado2 : Apocalyptic: I hated the 0.01 spread
[2017-01-29 06:00:01] Apocalyptic : Rado2: so you're not the one quoting it ?
[2017-01-29 06:00:34] Rado2 : no way
[2017-01-29 06:22:10] micmix : Apocalyptic: as far as I can see 1 tick spread is the result of multiple bots trying to outbid each other, it's not one MM quoting with 1 tick spread
[2017-01-29 06:23:55] Apocalyptic : micmix: that's sensible, but there's not really a way to tell
[2017-01-29 06:25:13] micmix : I can pretty much tell just by looking at the orderbook, I guess I've got a feel for it after staring at orderbooks for many years :smile:
[2017-01-29 06:25:55] Apocalyptic : micmix: how about this
[2017-01-29 06:26:22] Apocalyptic : it can be two bots trying to outbid each other, once the spread becames too tight one of the bots gives up
[2017-01-29 06:26:36] Apocalyptic : possibly resulting the other quoting the 1 tick spread
[2017-01-29 06:27:09] Apocalyptic : (which is a poor decision, but can happen if the bots doesn't have a floor on the spread)
[2017-01-29 06:27:40] thomaskikansha : wow suddenly the swap liquidity beats okc futures
[2017-01-29 06:27:41] micmix : that's exactly how it looks, 2-3 bigger ones plus 1-2 small ones
[2017-01-29 06:28:26] Apocalyptic : micmix: then this doesn't exclude the "one MM quoting with 1 tick spread" :)
[2017-01-29 06:29:51] micmix : Apocalyptic: no, it's two different bots, one on the bid side, another on the ask side. on regular markets you often have one MM on both sides with 1 tick spread
[2017-01-29 06:30:43] micmix : that's what I mean by "one MM quoting with 1 tick spread"
[2017-01-29 06:30:49] Apocalyptic : oh I see
[2017-01-29 07:04:50] Ugly_Old_Goat : Good evening ladies
[2017-01-29 07:09:21] Ugly_Old_Goat : March only 5 under, on its way to 20-30 over
[2017-01-29 07:11:10] Ugly_Old_Goat : If take out 930 tonight its off the races
[2017-01-29 07:11:46] micmix : okc quarterly is $901, it's not over
[2017-01-29 07:12:02] Ugly_Old_Goat : All those who got wiped out will be afraid to buy
[2017-01-29 07:13:34] Ugly_Old_Goat : It can end very quickly. My understanding is they are stuck with some very high loans and funds are tied up until they come due. but I don't trade on OKcoin, just hear about the problems
[2017-01-29 07:16:38] Ugly_Old_Goat : Had a minor coupe today. Decided to put 5% of my btc into XCP and averaged about 22. Shot up to 45 today. Looks like a solid platform. Got some ideas for it. Also bot some rate pepe cashtoday just for fun
[2017-01-29 07:36:43] Apocalyptic : micmix: any reason why the BVOL formula used by bitmex is a std-dev multiplied by the sqrt of the number of data points and not simply the stddev ?
[2017-01-29 07:40:08] Apocalyptic : seems like this has an impact of increasing the result when you have more data
[2017-01-29 07:40:51] Apocalyptic : without the data itself being more volatile
[2017-01-29 08:07:27] j8 : Apocalyptic: you multiply by a sqrt to change the units to daily, weekly or annualized volatility
[2017-01-29 08:08:49] Apocalyptic : j8: I don't follow, how does that change the units ?
[2017-01-29 08:09:26] Apocalyptic : you can have 500 data points or 1000 for the same amount of time
[2017-01-29 08:09:34] Apocalyptic : depending how you sample
[2017-01-29 08:09:39] j8 : it's the rule for time-scaling volatility, i guess based on random walk assumptions
[2017-01-29 08:10:34] j8 : if you have 1% daily volatility that implies 1%*sqrt(365) = 19.1% annualized
[2017-01-29 08:11:54] j8 : so if you use 288 5-minute samples for daily volatility, you multiply by sqrt(288), because you want it in daily terms, not 5 minute
[2017-01-29 08:12:46] Apocalyptic : j8: I see
[2017-01-29 08:13:09] Apocalyptic : but if I want just "instant" volatility I don't really need this scaling factor
[2017-01-29 08:13:44] j8 : it's just a scaling factor, doesn't change how "instant" the index is
[2017-01-29 08:13:58] Apocalyptic : indeed
[2017-01-29 08:14:57] j8 : but say you want to compare how volatile the last hour was compared to say weekly volatility. then you would want to do it in the same units
[2017-01-29 08:15:07] Apocalyptic : j8: the issue I was contemplating is that instead of having 5-minutes samples, my samples are direct trades
[2017-01-29 08:15:21] Apocalyptic : so my sample grows over time, until a certain max limit
[2017-01-29 08:15:57] Apocalyptic : and during this time, the formula would make volatility increase even though the new trades could all be at a constant price
[2017-01-29 08:16:09] Apocalyptic : see what I mean ?
[2017-01-29 08:16:45] Apocalyptic : because you just scale the thing you computed before
[2017-01-29 08:17:48] Apocalyptic : once the trade buffer is full, it indeed just becomes a constant scaling factor and it's not really an issue
[2017-01-29 08:18:28] j8 : yeah i think i dealt with that sort of thing a while back. one sec
[2017-01-29 08:19:16] Apocalyptic : I think I will just remove it
[2017-01-29 08:22:52] j8 : yeah so if you're accumulating more samples, you would still be multiplying by sqrt(288), not the number of samples
[2017-01-29 08:24:36] j8 : but if you're doing non-uniform samples (every trade) then things are gonna get complicated
[2017-01-29 08:28:37] Apocalyptic : j8: I admit the time non-uniformity does bother me a bit