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[2015-11-06 19:56:31] BitMEX_Sam : calamar182: I don't usually get into the business of advising trades :)
[2015-11-06 19:56:53] BitMEX_Sam : All I can say is, there are times when different contracts overlap expiry times, or nearly so, and there may be opportunities there
[2015-11-06 19:57:21] calamar182 : ok got it
[2015-11-06 19:59:11] hashman : thanks sa
[2015-11-06 19:59:14] hashman : sam
[2015-11-06 20:00:53] BitMEX_Sam : dorothy490: I can't give you exact numbers for obvious reasons, but it's been about 25%
[2015-11-06 20:01:05] dorothy490 : thanks for sharing!
[2015-11-06 20:01:49] dorothy490 : is it by volume I suppose?
[2015-11-06 20:01:50] hashman : any thoughts to use clef log in the future?
[2015-11-06 20:01:56] hashman : finex has it now, pretty cool
[2015-11-06 20:03:32] micmix : BitMEX_Sam: can I see rebalanced price in the UI, not the original entry price for the position?
[2015-11-06 20:04:01] BitMEX_Sam : micmix: In the UI you'll need to go to the settlement history to see the last rebalance price
[2015-11-06 20:04:30] BitMEX_Sam : hashman: Yeah, I like it too - I have implemented it partially, but we have concerns about some of the flows and a potential loss of security if the phone is compromised
[2015-11-06 20:04:36] BitMEX_Sam : I've been talking with Clef on and off for the last few months.
[2015-11-06 20:04:36] dorothy490 : BitMEX_Sam: CBT7D reserves way more money as margin, right? by what %?
[2015-11-06 20:04:40] micmix : BitMEX_Sam: got it, thanks
[2015-11-06 20:04:56] BitMEX_Sam : dorothy490: XBT7D reserves 2% instead of 1% from XBT24H
[2015-11-06 20:05:18] dorothy490 : what about XBTZ15 and XBTH16
[2015-11-06 20:05:34] dorothy490 : by the way terrible names, you should rename it to sound simplier. have to look up them to understand :)
[2015-11-06 20:06:15] BitMEX_Sam : These are standard instrument names in finance with standard expiry codes - month + year
[2015-11-06 20:06:36] BitMEX_Sam : dorothy490: Monthlies are 25x, so 4%. You can see all this information in each contract's description
[2015-11-06 20:06:38] dorothy490 : what is the month name H
[2015-11-06 20:06:46] SnackyCoins : http://www.cmegroup.com/product-codes-listing/month-codes.html
[2015-11-06 20:06:51] BitMEX_Sam : https://www.bitmex.com/app/monthCodesReference
[2015-11-06 20:06:55] BitMEX_Sam : dorothy490: March
[2015-11-06 20:07:15] BitMEX_Sam : Click the "Full Details..." link at the top right of the order controls to see more about each contract
[2015-11-06 20:07:25] dorothy490 : lol.. very easy to understand right? H = March :)
[2015-11-06 20:07:28] dorothy490 : thanks!
[2015-11-06 20:07:54] micmix : BitMEX_Sam: how often do you adjust fair basis for long-term contracts like XBTZ15 and XBTH16?
[2015-11-06 20:08:39] dorothy490 : by the way, perhaps I'm idiot, but I thought today. So contract size is relative to the current price. And if I sell 2000 contracts and price dips to by 50% I'd have way less money if price would've increased by 100%, right?
[2015-11-06 20:08:56] hashman : am I correct to think the the assigned margin amount is the most that can be lost if the position is liquidated?
[2015-11-06 20:09:32] dorothy490 : btw nice details I can see 24H volume now. good to know!
[2015-11-06 20:09:48] habibi : IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb: whats ur point of view for next btc moves?
[2015-11-06 20:09:57] BitMEX_Sam : micmix: Very infrequently because of their longer date, but we are moving toward a completely automated / transparent system
[2015-11-06 20:10:12] AudibleScience : BitMEX_Sam: did you see me email?
[2015-11-06 20:10:20] AudibleScience : my*
[2015-11-06 20:10:23] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : habibi: I don't know. I'm out right now. Overtraded and lost a bit of yesterday's gains
[2015-11-06 20:10:43] BitMEX_Sam : dorothy490: Yes, because quanto contracts have value in Bitcoin, and Bitcoin itself loses value, you lose more when it goes down, and gain more when it goes up
[2015-11-06 20:10:51] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : I want to say up but that hasn't worked out very well for me right now
[2015-11-06 20:10:56] BitMEX_Sam : dorothy490: If you were at 1x margin and the price went up 100%, you'd have 4x your money in USD terms
[2015-11-06 20:11:06] BitMEX_Sam : hashman: If margin is isolated, yes
[2015-11-06 20:11:23] BitMEX_Sam : hashman: If you are in cross margin mode, the position will consume margin from your main margin pool to keep itself open
[2015-11-06 20:11:29] habibi : IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb: i think we will down at night and @340-350 bigger retrace
[2015-11-06 20:11:33] hashman : right, it seems to default to isolate margin now?
[2015-11-06 20:11:48] BitMEX_Sam : hashman: Yes
[2015-11-06 20:11:50] podizzler3k_ : thats evil AF if it defaults to isolate
[2015-11-06 20:11:53] micmix : BitMEX_Sam: well, the system that uses orderbooks will produce $50 jumps in mark price bc of low liquidity. Please be careful with that!
[2015-11-06 20:12:05] BitMEX_Sam : But once you set it, it's sticky
[2015-11-06 20:12:11] podizzler3k_ : ah ok good
[2015-11-06 20:12:15] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : habibi: Probably a good call. I have yet to see anything resembling a serious bounce. A couple buys at first then volume just dies off and there's another dump
[2015-11-06 20:12:30] BitMEX_Sam : micmix: Yeah I agree, we're taking XBTZ15's interesting characteristics into account
[2015-11-06 20:12:46] podizzler3k_ : 340 ouch
[2015-11-06 20:12:47] BitMEX_Sam : When these contracts become this illiquid, different rules will have to apply
[2015-11-06 20:12:50] podizzler3k_ : i need 750 by tonight
[2015-11-06 20:13:00] podizzler3k_ : so i can be in panama by sunday
[2015-11-06 20:13:15] podizzler3k_ : 340 and im on the couch by sunday
[2015-11-06 20:13:27] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : podizzler3k_: lol
[2015-11-06 20:13:32] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : Why take so much risk?
[2015-11-06 20:13:56] micmix : BitMEX_Sam: I would recommend sending email announcements about changes like that in advance because we have to adjust our strategies to take new rules into account
[2015-11-06 20:14:07] podizzler3k_ : i have to get to panama
[2015-11-06 20:14:13] BitMEX_Sam : micmix: Understood, when we modify these rules we will send an announcement
[2015-11-06 20:14:19] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : I'm going to go out on a limb (more like a giant sturdy branch) and say 750 isn't happening by tonight
[2015-11-06 20:16:28] habibi : start of bubble 225$ -> 504$ if we will continue overall growing then at 61.8% fibo is at 331$ so that the last resort to bounce and go up
[2015-11-06 20:26:40] Murch : Seems like a good short here
[2015-11-06 20:36:48] dorothy490 : BitMEX_Sam: sorry I asked before but went off from my phone. Can you plesae advise what will happen with fair price if finex go flash dump to ~200 for few minutes? and china will freakout but not that much say to 5% as reaction
[2015-11-06 20:37:09] BitMEX_Sam : See https://tradeblock.com/markets/index/
[2015-11-06 20:37:13] TschavaTschigger : dorothy490: finex will be disabled by tradeblock index
[2015-11-06 20:37:15] BitMEX_Sam : Essentially, any outliers are dynamically deweighted
[2015-11-06 20:38:11] MrVisioN : is there a way to close shorts in this platform?
[2015-11-06 20:38:27] habibi : MrVisioN: buy same ammount of contracts
[2015-11-06 20:39:22] MrVisioN : ok and is there a way to increase the distance between the entry price and the liq price?
[2015-11-06 20:39:52] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : MrVisioN: Add margin in the positions tab or turn on cross margin
[2015-11-06 20:40:30] MrVisioN : ok thanks!
[2015-11-06 20:46:51] Murch : Hmm nvm, this doesn't seem to want to go lower
[2015-11-06 20:51:19] BitMEX_Sam : Thanks for answering those questions guys, you're making my job a lot easier
[2015-11-06 20:53:44] Murch : Thar she blows?
[2015-11-06 21:00:23] ayy lmao : mrvisioN
[2015-11-06 21:00:30] ayy lmao : u can also use cross margin
[2015-11-06 21:02:59] justinlooking : alien!
[2015-11-06 21:08:48] Murch : China y u so confuse
[2015-11-06 21:42:50] micmix : BitMEX_Sam: could you please check the following: I submit cancel request via API for 2 orders, one is active another is already filled. The active order gets canceled successfully but the result from the API call says unable to cancel for both orders: [ { id: 'de2d51b0-d04d-bb41-993d-29892f2be576', error: 'Unable to cancel order: Not found, not owned by user, already cancel ed or filled.' }, { id: '940b18aa-8326-0772-1ede-d214f3a775ea', error: 'Unable to cancel order: Not found, not owned by user, already cancel ed or filled.' } ]
[2015-11-06 21:43:07] BitMEX_Sam : micmix: Looking into it
[2015-11-06 21:43:10] sleger : you can cxl 2 orders in 1 call ?
[2015-11-06 21:43:24] BitMEX_Sam : sleger: Yes you can cancel as many as you want, or use `DELETE /order/all` with an optional filter
[2015-11-06 21:43:48] sleger : can you place more than 1 in 1 call ?
[2015-11-06 21:44:02] micmix : BitMEX_Sam: I'm using a list of order ids to cancel
[2015-11-06 21:44:15] BitMEX_Sam : micmix: Ok.
[2015-11-06 21:44:18] BitMEX_Sam : sleger: At this time no
[2015-11-06 21:44:24] BitMEX_Sam : Bulk cancellation only
[2015-11-06 21:45:05] sleger : micmix: you're coding in what language ?
[2015-11-06 21:45:24] micmix : sleger: node.js and C#
[2015-11-06 21:45:38] sleger : windows bahhh
[2015-11-06 21:49:40] sleger : that must be why it is not working: windows is corrupting your messages :))
[2015-11-06 21:50:35] BitMEX_Sam : micmix: Thanks, I found the issue, going to hotpatch shortly
[2015-11-06 21:52:05] GaliX : do you guys still make withdraws manually?
[2015-11-06 21:53:51] Murch : different email? lol
[2015-11-06 21:56:06] BitMEX_Sam : GaliX: You're good to go :)
[2015-11-06 21:58:14] GaliX : Thanks a lot
[2015-11-06 21:58:27] GaliX : ;)
[2015-11-06 21:58:50] GaliX : looks like the volume became really good with the pump on the daily futures?
[2015-11-06 22:00:04] wurstgelee : this place became more crowded
[2015-11-06 22:00:07] wurstgelee : way more
[2015-11-06 22:00:22] wurstgelee : 2 weeks ago, 1 chatline per hour
[2015-11-06 22:00:37] wurstgelee : sometimes more, sometimes less.
[2015-11-06 22:00:42] wurstgelee : but ~
[2015-11-06 22:01:13] sleger : if people use 5 chat lines to make 1 sentence i guess it's also normal
[2015-11-06 22:01:43] habibi : sleger: :D
[2015-11-06 22:18:27] wurstgelee : lol :D
[2015-11-06 22:45:55] zanza : :D
[2015-11-06 22:53:06] Satoshi : :D
[2015-11-06 22:53:27] Murch : :D
[2015-11-06 22:53:50] lazerdye : :/
[2015-11-06 22:54:01] Murch : motherf
[2015-11-06 22:57:18] micmix : BitMEX_Sam: thanks for fixing the cancel API, working correctly now
[2015-11-06 22:57:32] BitMEX_Sam : No worries
[2015-11-06 23:07:18] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : BitMEX_Sam: How do I know whether an 'orderBook delete' is for the bid or ask side?
[2015-11-06 23:07:33] BitMEX_Sam : IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb: If a delete comes through, it's for the whole level
[2015-11-06 23:07:38] BitMEX_Sam : Otherwise you would just see the bid or ask side set to nulls
[2015-11-06 23:07:42] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : BitMEX_Sam: Ok thanks
[2015-11-06 23:08:46] micmix : BitMEX_Sam: can I use a list of order ids as a filter in GET /order?
[2015-11-06 23:09:54] BitMEX_Sam : micmix: Yep: e.g. `{filter: {"orderID": ["5f2cd0dc-f2e1-4c21-cfd3-bce4be08e4a3","99ed37f5-ab53-52a3-b228-f5a69b7a9ea6"]}}`
[2015-11-06 23:10:15] micmix : BitMEX_Sam: excellent, just what I wanted
[2015-11-06 23:10:36] BitMEX_Sam : micmix: Also you can send `{"filter": {"open": true}}`
[2015-11-06 23:10:45] wurstgelee : test
[2015-11-06 23:10:54] STRML : Hey
[2015-11-06 23:10:54] micmix : yep, I know about the open filter
[2015-11-06 23:11:07] wurstgelee : works ;)
[2015-11-06 23:11:34] GaliX : this will most likely just range between 350-400 for some time, don't fomo
[2015-11-06 23:54:49] micmix : BitMEX_Sam: do you know the difference between avgEntryPrice and avgCostPrice in position table?
[2015-11-06 23:55:09] BitMEX_Sam : micmix: Yeah, avgEntryPrice is reset to the rebalance price every week
[2015-11-06 23:55:15] BitMEX_Sam : It's used internally for margining calculations
[2015-11-06 23:55:24] BitMEX_Sam : avgCostPrice is for reference and stays static even through a rebalance
[2015-11-06 23:55:43] micmix : BitMEX_Sam: thanks!
[2015-11-06 23:55:44] BitMEX_Sam : Generally avgCostPrice is what you want
[2015-11-06 23:55:51] micmix : yep
[2015-11-06 23:58:16] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : BitMEX_Sam: orderBook doesn't seem to be providing updates for levels <= 25. Do I need to subscribe to orderBook25 for that?
[2015-11-06 23:58:30] BitMEX_Sam : IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb: Should be, we use that information on the frontend
[2015-11-06 23:58:42] BitMEX_Sam : Try `orderBook10` or `orderBook25`
[2015-11-06 23:58:49] BitMEX_Sam : See if that makes a difference.
[2015-11-06 23:59:00] BitMEX_Sam : Note that `orderBook10` is a different format, though.
[2015-11-07 00:10:24] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : BitMEX_Sam: The data is there. I must be doing something wrong processing it. Thanks
[2015-11-07 00:13:55] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : Yay it's working now
[2015-11-07 00:46:52] wurstgelee : i hate it when that MM bot dies :|
[2015-11-07 00:47:02] habibi : yep it really frustrating
[2015-11-07 00:47:14] wurstgelee : re
[2015-11-07 00:47:17] wurstgelee : ;)
[2015-11-07 00:47:46] kendang : wurstgelee, are you german?
[2015-11-07 00:47:50] wurstgelee : yep
[2015-11-07 00:47:54] kendang : me too
[2015-11-07 00:47:58] wurstgelee : =)
[2015-11-07 00:47:59] kendang : from Mannheim
[2015-11-07 00:48:02] wurstgelee : hamburg
[2015-11-07 00:48:07] kendang : nice
[2015-11-07 00:48:23] wurstgelee : there are a lot worse places to leave
[2015-11-07 00:48:28] wurstgelee : i love it :)
[2015-11-07 00:48:32] wurstgelee : live
[2015-11-07 00:48:39] wurstgelee : lol...its late
[2015-11-07 00:49:04] kendang : yeah, but i'm making nice profits, so it is hard to get to sleep :-)
[2015-11-07 00:50:24] kendang : closed all my positions. going to bed now.
[2015-11-07 00:50:30] kendang : good night guys and gals
[2015-11-07 00:50:49] patrickb : .
[2015-11-07 00:51:48] patrickb : can someone explain me why the XBT has far more volume than XBU? What is your primary motivation to trade on XBT?
[2015-11-07 00:52:38] kogroken : XBT has more volume? :P
[2015-11-07 00:52:48] kogroken : (I mean, that's the motivation..)
[2015-11-07 00:54:06] kogroken : Seriously thou, XBT contracts apparently have larger gains on rises, and XBUs on drops.
[2015-11-07 00:54:38] kogroken : I think XBUs are more designed for hedging bitcoin positions than typical trading.
[2015-11-07 00:54:40] SnackyCoins : XBT has more leverage
[2015-11-07 00:54:48] SnackyCoins : more leverage = more volume using less coins
[2015-11-07 00:55:12] kogroken : That too
[2015-11-07 00:55:26] SnackyCoins : https://blog.bitmex.com/xbt-vs-xbu-chain/
[2015-11-07 00:55:52] kogroken : The flip side is that XBU has less risk of margin calls eating profits
[2015-11-07 00:56:19] kogroken : margin calls of other people, that *is
[2015-11-07 00:57:42] patrickb : understand. But XBT has quite a disadvantage for shorters. So I'm wondering why there are still so much traders shorting and why the price of XBT is basically equal to spot and not higher.
[2015-11-07 00:58:30] wurstgelee : it is higher
[2015-11-07 00:58:34] wurstgelee : ~ 4.5$
[2015-11-07 00:58:34] patrickb : or maybe that "higher" is the 5 points difference
[2015-11-07 00:58:39] wurstgelee : exactly
[2015-11-07 00:58:40] patrickb : yeah...
[2015-11-07 01:02:00] SnackyCoins : shorters could be using the cash & carry technique and collecting the premium
[2015-11-07 01:02:41] Yumi : XBT is disadvantage for shorting in USD terms, if you care about BTC gains its perfectly fine
[2015-11-07 01:03:39] SnackyCoins : if you go short 1xbu and also buy 1 bitcoin (spot, from somwehre else) then you carry the contract to expiry you are flat (not exposed to price movement) and have successfully captured the premium on the contract
[2015-11-07 01:03:57] SnackyCoins : so $4 premium you would have made $4
[2015-11-07 01:05:08] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : SnackyCoins: So if there is enough liquidity and you have the capital, you could do that for say 100 BTC, right?
[2015-11-07 01:05:40] SnackyCoins : yep
[2015-11-07 01:05:49] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : What if XBU goes up though. Then you're likely to end up with 0 profit
[2015-11-07 01:06:10] SnackyCoins : if it goes up then your futures are losing but your btc is worth more now
[2015-11-07 01:06:27] SnackyCoins : like i said you are flat
[2015-11-07 01:06:35] Yumi : I like that new announcements placement!
[2015-11-07 01:06:37] patrickb : flat in USD
[2015-11-07 01:07:04] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : got it
[2015-11-07 01:07:05] SnackyCoins : yes, the premium is in usd and this is what we're collecting for this strategy
[2015-11-07 01:07:25] SnackyCoins : bitcoin is not at a premium to itself 8)
[2015-11-07 01:07:44] SnackyCoins : ofc you can take that premium and go buy btc after expiry
[2015-11-07 01:08:12] SnackyCoins : remember during the rally when we saw $30, $50 premiums?
[2015-11-07 01:08:18] SnackyCoins : imagine 8)
[2015-11-07 01:08:31] laisee : bu u catn buy less (o more) BTC with USD eceived.
[2015-11-07 01:11:47] patrickb : what would theoretically happen if there are no settlements on XBT. Would the difference to spot be even bigger?
[2015-11-07 01:12:23] zanza : no settlements?
[2015-11-07 01:12:31] patrickb : no settlements
[2015-11-07 01:12:38] zanza : you mean like an infinite contract
[2015-11-07 01:12:42] patrickb : yep
[2015-11-07 01:12:53] Yumi : futures have to have a settlement
[2015-11-07 01:13:02] zanza : well, there would have to be interest charged, since othewise you could hold forever
[2015-11-07 01:13:05] Murch : It wouldn't be a futures contract then
[2015-11-07 01:13:12] j8 : if there was no settlement, there would be nothing tying the price to the price of bitcoin
[2015-11-07 01:13:20] zanza : it would be like an overnight interest type setup
[2015-11-07 01:13:35] zanza : is that how finex works? never been there
[2015-11-07 01:13:37] Murch : So that would be like an ETF or something?
[2015-11-07 01:13:56] SnackyCoins : or margin
[2015-11-07 01:13:57] patrickb : j8: except people believing how the price should be.
[2015-11-07 01:14:08] SnackyCoins : if you want leverage in a spot market (no settlements) then you play with margin
[2015-11-07 01:14:16] Murch : Margin is more general than that
[2015-11-07 01:14:16] j8 : yeah, if there is someone willing to exchange contracts for btc.
[2015-11-07 01:14:19] laisee : you could keep trading infinite if exchange had enough insurance & people had margin
[2015-11-07 01:14:35] j8 : a broker could offer a CFD with no expiry
[2015-11-07 01:14:40] SnackyCoins : bitfinex and woodchipper have margin spot markets
[2015-11-07 01:14:46] SnackyCoins : there are CFD's too
[2015-11-07 01:14:47] Murch : Margin just means you can leverage what you've got
[2015-11-07 01:14:59] Murch : That's spot though, he said a contract
[2015-11-07 01:15:09] SnackyCoins : anytime you are borrowing you use margin
[2015-11-07 01:15:14] Murch : Yeah exactly
[2015-11-07 01:15:34] j8 : if there was a freely traded contract with no settlement to tie it to the price at some date, it could trade at any price and would essentially be meaningless
[2015-11-07 01:15:44] SnackyCoins : ^
[2015-11-07 01:16:20] Murch : j8: yep, that's the bottom line
[2015-11-07 01:16:25] j8 : if you want leveraged CFDs, thats what 1broker and simplefx do
[2015-11-07 01:16:39] Murch : And it's like a bucket shop so...
[2015-11-07 01:16:48] Murch : Better to avoid
[2015-11-07 01:16:52] j8 : the price is whatever they quote.
[2015-11-07 01:17:29] laisee : if u had buyers & sellers - would be like OTC swap with no revert.t
[2015-11-07 01:18:47] SnackyCoins : the whole point of a contract is that it does settle. in the "real world" futures are deliverable for the underlying asset. farmers sell corn futures to lock in a price so they can pay their bills without worry. they deliver the corn at expiry and if the price had gone up, they are only going to get the price the sold at and lose out on potential extra profit. if the price goes down, they have made money and a trader has been rekt :)
[2015-11-07 01:20:33] patrickb : I sill wonder if the price of such an unsettled market would go to arbitrary values, or if alone the belief of a "fair" price pegs it to spot. somehow
[2015-11-07 01:21:05] SnackyCoins : you can hold your losing trade to infinity in this pretend scenario
[2015-11-07 01:21:27] j8 : there has to be some channel for arbitrage though.
[2015-11-07 01:21:46] SnackyCoins : what forced it to be pegged though?
[2015-11-07 01:21:47] laisee : being able to buy or sell would(should) constrain futures price
[2015-11-07 01:21:54] patrickb : exactly, but as long is has not lost it's whole value you rather want to close it some time.
[2015-11-07 01:22:12] SnackyCoins : how do you peg it to something if there is never a point where we include the underlying asset?
[2015-11-07 01:22:21] SnackyCoins : if they dont settle, then those prices never cross
[2015-11-07 01:22:32] j8 : if there is confidence of being able to exchange "paper btc" for real btc, then it might hold a peg
[2015-11-07 01:23:14] j8 : which is basically what an etf / etn / gbtc is
[2015-11-07 01:23:39] j8 : they actually have a fund of btc backing the contracts
[2015-11-07 01:24:30] patrickb : the broker could state in the Terms that, if the market should be closed for whatever reason, all contracts settle on spot.
[2015-11-07 01:24:33] j8 : the fund buys btc on the market to introduce new shares if the contracts trade too high
[2015-11-07 01:24:47] laisee : needs confidence in contract, not in actually getting BTC IRL
[2015-11-07 01:24:58] SnackyCoins : so then your settlement time is "random" 8)
[2015-11-07 01:25:04] SnackyCoins : that becomes difficult to trade
[2015-11-07 01:25:56] j8 : laisee: true it doesn't need to be deliverable. like the futures we trade
[2015-11-07 01:26:12] zanza : ETF's has a lot of fees
[2015-11-07 01:26:29] j8 : but the point is, you can't just say "this tracks the bitcoin price" and expect that it will
[2015-11-07 01:26:33] SnackyCoins : thats because they have to adminster/keep secure the backing
[2015-11-07 01:28:32] SnackyCoins : settlement is also how we get to play 100x for free. That money is basically created out of thin air and needs to be cleaned up. In spot, you borrow the extra capital from somewhere and pay regular interest for the use of it
[2015-11-07 01:28:50] SnackyCoins : there's no interest paid for the extra futures capital
[2015-11-07 01:29:02] SnackyCoins : because it's not real 8)
[2015-11-07 01:29:18] laisee : snacky> true on funding
[2015-11-07 01:30:12] j8 : likewise for the broker model with no settlement though.
[2015-11-07 01:30:48] SnackyCoins : CFD charges interest, etf you basically pay for it in the fees
[2015-11-07 01:31:03] SnackyCoins : if the etf is even leveraged
[2015-11-07 01:31:55] patrickb : well let's assume XBT settles in 2025. what would happen with the XBT price here?
[2015-11-07 01:32:09] SnackyCoins : lol i am getting chopped today
[2015-11-07 01:32:28] SnackyCoins : i imagine there would be quite the premium
[2015-11-07 01:32:39] SnackyCoins : just look at may's premium
[2015-11-07 01:33:26] SnackyCoins : basically there is interest built into the futures trading price, this is called theta
[2015-11-07 01:33:38] patrickb : good point
[2015-11-07 01:35:19] SnackyCoins : commodities markets have futures out to what, 2023?
[2015-11-07 01:35:48] SnackyCoins : how the hell would you price that for bitcoin lol
[2015-11-07 01:41:05] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : SnackyCoins: The premium would be insane
[2015-11-07 01:42:20] Murch : IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb: It would be ludicrous hahah
[2015-11-07 01:45:13] floopfloop : fuck
[2015-11-07 02:04:23] floopfloop : They still got the filter....nice
[2015-11-07 02:04:44] floopfloop : kinda surprised that the december market is more lively
[2015-11-07 02:04:53] floopfloop : isn't*
[2015-11-07 02:06:54] Yumi : truth is 24H sucked up liquidity and volume from longer dated contracts
[2015-11-07 02:08:29] floopfloop : honestly, the contract that scares me the most right now is the friday one
[2015-11-07 02:08:42] floopfloop : 24h, december, and march are pretty easy to guess
[2015-11-07 02:09:48] Murch : What in the name of fuck is that premium on Z15?
[2015-11-07 02:10:06] floopfloop : explain?
[2015-11-07 02:10:22] Murch : Look at the fair price compared to the highest bid
[2015-11-07 02:10:54] SnackyCoins : free market
[2015-11-07 02:11:08] floopfloop : hmmmm
[2015-11-07 02:11:12] floopfloop : might have to short that
[2015-11-07 02:11:15] Murch : How could it work out badly if one went short on that?
[2015-11-07 02:11:28] SnackyCoins : we could go to the moon
[2015-11-07 02:11:31] SnackyCoins : or something
[2015-11-07 02:11:31] Yumi : fair price should adjust to market, not market to fair price
[2015-11-07 02:11:35] Murch : But you'd go long on another contract
[2015-11-07 02:11:51] SnackyCoins : well we have an arbitrage scenario now dont we
[2015-11-07 02:12:27] floopfloop : wish I had more margin
[2015-11-07 02:12:36] floopfloop : I am still waiting on a ghost deposit :(
[2015-11-07 02:12:37] Murch : Welp, the person with the orders changed their mind
[2015-11-07 02:12:41] Yumi : if you think we wont go to 520 before Dec 25 its nice to short with big premium
[2015-11-07 02:13:02] Yumi : but in bitcoin its pretty long time
[2015-11-07 02:13:04] SnackyCoins : oh shit
[2015-11-07 02:13:09] SnackyCoins : just noticed where the announcements went
[2015-11-07 02:13:09] Murch : Yumi: I'm fairly certain we'll be way above that, but to be at such a high price now makes no sense.
[2015-11-07 02:13:21] floopfloop : Murch: no they didn't. I am watching it
[2015-11-07 02:13:35] SnackyCoins : Sam: +100 on moving the announcements
[2015-11-07 02:13:37] Murch : floopfloop: Yeah it's back now
[2015-11-07 02:13:52] SnackyCoins : ui is so much cleaner now
[2015-11-07 02:14:04] Murch : Yeah that was a good choice
[2015-11-07 02:14:15] floopfloop : you could eat off this ui
[2015-11-07 02:14:27] Murch : lmao
[2015-11-07 02:14:27] SnackyCoins : also i am more likely to notice new ones now 8) i went banner blind on that box
[2015-11-07 02:15:11] Murch : yeah exactly
[2015-11-07 02:17:05] floopfloop : Murch: you gonna take that Dec short?
[2015-11-07 02:17:16] Murch : floopfloop: Nah just set a sell a bit higher
[2015-11-07 02:17:24] floopfloop : Murch: I can't do anything until my deposit is credited :(
[2015-11-07 02:17:30] Murch : Ah darn
[2015-11-07 02:17:35] Murch : Well it's usually pretty fast on here
[2015-11-07 02:17:50] floopfloop : no, blockchain issues
[2015-11-07 02:17:54] floopfloop : other night I waited 8 hours
[2015-11-07 02:18:06] Yumi : set higher fee
[2015-11-07 02:18:12] Murch : floopfloop: ah okay that's a bummer
[2015-11-07 02:18:14] floopfloop : Well, that might be the problem
[2015-11-07 02:18:23] floopfloop : I was using my free withdrawals
[2015-11-07 02:18:41] floopfloop : but, I mean, free is free
[2015-11-07 02:19:37] Yumi : you can pay few cents and not wait for hours
[2015-11-07 02:19:55] floopfloop : but......FREEEEE lol
[2015-11-07 02:20:11] floopfloop : I know this, but I had 3 free withdrawals on the site I use
[2015-11-07 02:20:27] floopfloop : wanted to use them up before they get taken away mwhahahaha
[2015-11-07 03:24:18] ayy lmao : ui loosk clea
[2015-11-07 03:24:40] ayy lmao : u looks cleaner yah*
[2015-11-07 03:24:58] ayy lmao : keyboard acting up lmao
[2015-11-07 04:18:56] Scottv53 : t
[2015-11-07 05:01:22] ohmannomma : whats your higher bid now? mine 485.21
[2015-11-07 05:01:30] ohmannomma : sorry 385.21
[2015-11-07 05:01:36] ohmannomma : 384,41
[2015-11-07 06:39:58] dorothy490 : ohmannomma: open new incognito tab in browser and open this site. This way you will see orderbook as "other person"
[2015-11-07 06:40:38] dorothy490 : And you will be sure that you have the same orderbook as others
[2015-11-07 07:39:35] dorothy490 : any admins online?
[2015-11-07 07:47:18] BitMEX_Wally : dorothy490: Hello
[2015-11-07 07:47:50] dorothy490 : re "initial margin"
[2015-11-07 07:48:08] dorothy490 : I have open position, on walllet page it shows 0.3845 for me
[2015-11-07 07:48:25] dorothy490 : on open positions part it shows margin 0.1875
[2015-11-07 07:48:42] dorothy490 : isolated. if price go agaisnt me, ill lost 0.1875 or how much?
[2015-11-07 07:48:52] dorothy490 : Ill lose *
[2015-11-07 07:49:14] BitMEX_Wally : You have open order in `XBT24H` and `XBT7D`
[2015-11-07 07:49:22] dorothy490 : open positions
[2015-11-07 07:49:25] BitMEX_Wally : So you need to add them together to get the number on the wallet page
[2015-11-07 07:49:47] dorothy490 : aha
[2015-11-07 07:50:01] dorothy490 : so you mean Ill lose only half of my "initial margin"?
[2015-11-07 07:50:41] BitMEX_Wally : For each position, with isolate margin enabled you can only lose the initial margin
[2015-11-07 07:50:53] dorothy490 : talking about my XBT7D 0 if price go to 430, how much ill lose? "initial margin" = 0.35?
[2015-11-07 07:51:16] dorothy490 : 0.3845*
[2015-11-07 07:51:40] BitMEX_Wally : On `XBT7D` you are currently short
[2015-11-07 07:51:53] BitMEX_Wally : And you have an open order to buy
[2015-11-07 07:52:48] BitMEX_Wally : So if the price goes down to 0, your buys will be filled and you will have made a profit
[2015-11-07 07:53:13] dorothy490 : so if fair price go to 430 from this moment, how much I will lose? My open order will be untouched
[2015-11-07 07:53:29] BitMEX_Wally : You won't lose anything. You're short
[2015-11-07 07:53:32] BitMEX_Wally : So you'll make money
[2015-11-07 07:54:08] BitMEX_Wally : Ahh sorry
[2015-11-07 07:54:10] BitMEX_Wally : 430 is up
[2015-11-07 07:54:24] dorothy490 : hehe, got used to that 500 price Iguess :)
[2015-11-07 07:55:35] BitMEX_Wally : Your initial margin to open that XBT7D position was 0.0822 XBT and you have 0.101966 XBT of unrealisedPnl
[2015-11-07 07:56:14] BitMEX_Wally : So if the price goes up your unrealisedPnl will go from +0.101966 to -0.0822 (i.e. you only lose your initial margin)
[2015-11-07 07:56:54] dorothy490 : so only 0.0822.. thanks. WHy initial margin is then shows 0.3845 ? I thought that "initial magiin" is being used only for open positions
[2015-11-07 07:57:50] BitMEX_Wally : If you have open orders then they require initial margin to be locked out of your account. This is what 'Initial Margin' means on wallet page
[2015-11-07 07:58:02] BitMEX_Wally : Once the order is open, this initial margin is moved to the position, and it appears as 'Maintenance Margin'
[2015-11-07 07:58:13] BitMEX_Wally : And you can only lose what you put in (with isolate margin enabled)
[2015-11-07 07:58:45] BitMEX_Wally : You have open orders in `XBT24H` and `XBTH16` that require Initial Margin. You can cancel these orders to get that back
[2015-11-07 07:59:14] BitMEX_Wally : You have open positions in `XBT24H` and `XBT7D` that require maintenance margin
[2015-11-07 07:59:42] dorothy490 : ok you guys need some column to show "max losses" for each open position
[2015-11-07 07:59:58] dorothy490 : cause currently its confusing
[2015-11-07 07:59:59] BitMEX_Wally : That's pretty much the 'Margin' column
[2015-11-07 08:00:08] BitMEX_Wally : On the Open Position tab
[2015-11-07 08:00:49] dorothy490 : no, its dynamic and confusing to the person who is not looking onto "wallet tab" at the same time
[2015-11-07 08:01:13] dorothy490 : casual user liek me want ot look only at the top ("Balance: xx Avaliable: xx)
[2015-11-07 08:01:22] dorothy490 : and decide from there how much they can lose from this open order
[2015-11-07 08:01:43] dorothy490 : do you agree with me ? :P
[2015-11-07 08:01:59] AbuAli : no :D
[2015-11-07 08:02:02] dorothy490 : user need an easy way to understand what his balance will look like if this open order will get liquidated
[2015-11-07 08:02:19] dorothy490 : and currently its hard to understand
[2015-11-07 08:02:34] AbuAli : its easy once u get used to it
[2015-11-07 08:02:47] dorothy490 : it shouldn't be if this exchange plan to be mass
[2015-11-07 08:03:02] BitMEX_Wally : Yes, we are working on simplifying the interface
[2015-11-07 08:04:05] dorothy490 : thanks wally. bitmex support is the best :)
[2015-11-07 08:20:33] ethexio : BitMEX_Wally: FYI, calculator doesn't bring up keyboard on mobile, so can't enter values. Tried on Android phone and Android tablet, chrome and Firefox.
[2015-11-07 08:21:04] BitMEX_Wally : ethexio: Thanks for letting me know, I'll get BitMEX_Sam to look into it
[2015-11-07 08:21:09] ethexio : Also, do you guys do any security bug bounties?
[2015-11-07 08:21:31] BitMEX_Wally : Yes: https://cobalt.io/bitmex
[2015-11-07 08:21:41] ethexio : BitMEX_Wally: delegating, love it
[2015-11-07 08:22:06] BitMEX_Wally : I don't have any Android devices :)
[2015-11-07 08:25:20] ethexio : "Only security researchers vetted by Cobalt can submit reports on this program"
[2015-11-07 08:27:02] ethexio : For the record, I haven't found anything - but as a developer I have a tendency of finding issues and holes.
[2015-11-07 08:30:07] BitMEX_Wally : Sure, just email us
[2015-11-07 08:30:24] BitMEX_Wally : We payout bug bounties
[2015-11-07 08:42:10] ethexio : Thank @BitMEX_Wally
[2015-11-07 09:36:30] mikeh : I think it's a bug that isolate margin from the position list sets the default for your following orders
[2015-11-07 09:37:49] mikeh : and that there's no warning if your stop limits will be rejected on triggering rather than when you add them
[2015-11-07 09:38:11] mikeh : that didn't make sense but u know what i mean :]
[2015-11-07 10:02:37] kendang : does aynone know a bitcoin trading platform with leverage and tighter spreads?
[2015-11-07 10:23:22] aspa : @bitmex_wally: I'm seeing an order in my order history with status 'Cancelled', but it looks like it was added to my position. I'm not complaining, as it was slightly better than the price of my actual orders, but it seems odd..
[2015-11-07 10:24:01] BitMEX_Wally : aspa: That order might have been a partial fill?
[2015-11-07 10:24:44] BitMEX_Wally : What does the 'Filled' column have?
[2015-11-07 10:24:56] aspa : BitMEX_Wally: it doesn't show up there
[2015-11-07 10:25:23] BitMEX_Wally : The filled column is 0?
[2015-11-07 10:26:12] aspa : BitMEX_Wally: ah, sorry. The filled column is -100 (and it doesn't show up in the 'Fills' tab)
[2015-11-07 10:26:45] BitMEX_Wally : Ahh, unfortunately the 'Fills' tab only shows completely filled orders
[2015-11-07 10:27:31] aspa : OK, so it was partially filled and then cancelled. Clear, thanks :)
[2015-11-07 10:30:07] ohmannomma : i closed a position that i opened by mistake at the same price, and i have been taken 0.16 btcs
[2015-11-07 10:30:18] ohmannomma : is it opssible?
[2015-11-07 10:30:49] ohmannomma : in this site you have to keep checking for strange behaviours
[2015-11-07 10:31:20] BitMEX_Wally : ohmannomma: Even if you opened and closed at the same price there is still the trading fees
[2015-11-07 10:31:37] ohmannomma : check please
[2015-11-07 10:31:42] ohmannomma : then
[2015-11-07 10:32:02] ohmannomma : opem
[2015-11-07 10:32:03] ohmannomma : 2399 392.95 2399 392.95 9.4269 XBT Limit Filled 2015-11-07 10:19:09
[2015-11-07 10:32:11] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.bitmex.com/app/tradeHistory
[2015-11-07 10:32:12] ohmannomma : close 2500 390.51 2500 390.51 9.7628 XBT Limit Filled 2015-11-07 10:14:58
[2015-11-07 10:32:18] BitMEX_Wally : Have a look at the trade history here: https://www.bitmex.com/app/tradeHistory
[2015-11-07 10:32:24] BitMEX_Wally : There is a 'Commission' column
[2015-11-07 10:32:46] ohmannomma : i got screenshot before opening position and after .. it took 0.16 btcs
[2015-11-07 10:33:06] ohmannomma : exactyly
[2015-11-07 10:33:22] ohmannomma : my balance was 0.16 btcs higher before opening that position
[2015-11-07 10:33:43] ohmannomma : commision says 0.0042
[2015-11-07 10:33:54] ohmannomma : !
[2015-11-07 10:34:02] ohmannomma : can you please check my account balances?
[2015-11-07 10:34:10] BitMEX_Wally : Sure
[2015-11-07 10:34:36] kendang : what happens when the contract ends?
[2015-11-07 10:35:09] BitMEX_Wally : kendang: All positions are closed at the settlement price
[2015-11-07 10:35:24] kendang : ok
[2015-11-07 10:35:42] ohmannomma : why there is no column 'price paid?
[2015-11-07 10:35:45] BitMEX_Wally : ohmannomma: You have pasted two buy trades
[2015-11-07 10:35:47] ohmannomma : that would be clearer
[2015-11-07 10:35:57] ohmannomma : right
[2015-11-07 10:36:12] ohmannomma : 2015-11-07 10:14:58 XBT24H Buy 2500 2500 0 390.51 390.51 9.7628 XBT 0.0044 XBT Trade Limit Filled 7d5f2ce507ce 2015-11-07 09:54:12 XBT24H Sell 2500 2500 0 390.58 390.58 -9.7645 XBT 0.0044 XBT Trade Limit Filled 5ecd79602665 20
[2015-11-07 10:36:12] BitMEX_Wally : ohmannomma: There is, it is called 'Execution Price' which the price, and 'Value' which is the cash value
[2015-11-07 10:36:32] ohmannomma : no
[2015-11-07 10:36:37] ohmannomma : thats a way to confuse
[2015-11-07 10:36:58] BitMEX_Wally : How is it confusing to give you the raw numbers so you can add them up and calculate the PNL yourself?
[2015-11-07 10:36:58] ohmannomma : the PRICE PAID for closing the position
[2015-11-07 10:37:05] ohmannomma : anyway please check
[2015-11-07 10:37:16] ohmannomma : cos i am sure that 0.16 went in the air
[2015-11-07 10:37:21] ohmannomma : and i wonder how many before
[2015-11-07 10:37:22] ohmannomma : ...
[2015-11-07 10:37:33] BitMEX_Wally : You seem very suspicious of BitMEX.
[2015-11-07 10:37:41] BitMEX_Wally : Every time you ask us to check something, it turns out everything is correct
[2015-11-07 10:37:42] ohmannomma : well
[2015-11-07 10:37:45] ohmannomma : the idea is good
[2015-11-07 10:37:51] ohmannomma : but i was checking
[2015-11-07 10:38:30] ohmannomma : with my own eyes i saw 0.16 disappearing
[2015-11-07 10:39:10] ohmannomma : im 99% sure
[2015-11-07 10:39:29] AbuAli : seems u did "close market" to ur position,
[2015-11-07 10:39:33] ohmannomma : can you pl;ease tell me how much i had before
[2015-11-07 10:39:35] ohmannomma : 7d5f2ce507ce
[2015-11-07 10:39:40] ohmannomma : and after?
[2015-11-07 10:39:56] ohmannomma : i should have had 0.0042 times 2 minus
[2015-11-07 10:40:07] ohmannomma : actually i had -0.16 !
[2015-11-07 10:40:33] BitMEX_Wally : So you sold 2500 at 390.58 and bought 2500 at 390.51
[2015-11-07 10:40:38] ohmannomma : cyes
[2015-11-07 10:40:40] ohmannomma : yes
[2015-11-07 10:40:57] ohmannomma : how much i had before, and how much after
[2015-11-07 10:41:57] ohmannomma : i had 3.16 before
[2015-11-07 10:42:00] ohmannomma : and 2.99 after
[2015-11-07 10:42:48] ohmannomma : can you just tell me how it is?
[2015-11-07 10:43:41] ohmannomma : oh no my bad
[2015-11-07 10:43:56] ohmannomma : my partner withdrew them in the meantme
[2015-11-07 10:44:03] BitMEX_Wally : So look at the 'Value' column. The sell value was -9.7645 XBT and the buy value was 9.76275 XBT so you lost -0.00175 XBT on the trade. Then minus two lots of Commission which is 0.004394 XBT and 0.0043932 XBT
[2015-11-07 10:44:09] ohmannomma : ok sorted
[2015-11-07 10:44:57] BitMEX_Wally : Coo
[2015-11-07 10:44:58] BitMEX_Wally : Cool
[2015-11-07 11:27:52] billyboy402 : FYI on iPhone mobile the daily countdown doesn't show like normal web
[2015-11-07 11:29:46] BitMEX_Wally : billyboy402: Thanks for letting us know, we'll look into it
[2015-11-07 11:32:59] billyboy402 : how long until daily settlement please ?
[2015-11-07 11:33:08] BitMEX_Arthur : 26 minutes
[2015-11-07 11:33:09] BitMEX_Wally : 27 minutes
[2015-11-07 11:33:18] BitMEX_Arthur : jinx
[2015-11-07 11:33:42] billyboy402 : Cheer . My wife is playing the pokies and I'm playing bitcoin
[2015-11-07 11:33:59] laisee : 2 X daily settlement, good service
[2015-11-07 11:39:58] Yumi : in Withdrawal Confirmed email still says 12 UTC
[2015-11-07 11:40:14] BitMEX_Wally : Yumi: Thanks, let me fix that now
[2015-11-07 11:43:03] BitMEX_Wally : I've committed a fix which will go into the next release
[2015-11-07 11:51:32] dorothy490 : BitMEX_Wally: can you share list of the features you plan to implement in the next month or smth? :)
[2015-11-07 13:01:49] ayy lmao : i submitted my withdrawal request before 13;00 but confirmation was a couple seconds after, will it still go in todays batch
[2015-11-07 13:01:50] ayy lmao : i submitted my withdrawal request before 13;00 but confirmation was a couple seconds after, will it still go in todays batch
[2015-11-07 13:02:23] BitMEX_Wally : ayy lmao: No, but I'lll make sure it does
[2015-11-07 13:02:41] ayy lmao : awesome, thanks
[2015-11-07 13:18:33] habibi : calm day
[2015-11-07 13:25:19] Scottv53 : dorothy490: <em>disingenuous;
[2015-11-07 13:26:08] Scottv53 : &btc;
[2015-11-07 13:26:37] dorothy490 : Scottv53: wat
[2015-11-07 13:27:56] Scottv53 : sandbox
[2015-11-07 14:01:45] BitMEX_Sam : billyboy402: The countdown not showing on a phone is intentional, there's no space for it
[2015-11-07 14:33:14] zanza : g'morning, anyone having problems with not being able to uncheck 1isolate margin' box?
[2015-11-07 14:42:58] BitMEX_Sam : zanza: Looking into it
[2015-11-07 14:43:20] BitMEX_Sam : Appears to be display only zanza, will push a fix
[2015-11-07 14:56:45] BitMEX_Sam : zanza: Please refresh, taken care of
[2015-11-07 14:58:16] zanza : loooks good :) yeah, it was display only, since even though it was showing checked, the liq price was very high
[2015-11-07 14:58:18] zanza : thanks ~
[2015-11-07 15:35:03] podizzler3k : sup trading bros
[2015-11-07 15:35:28] podizzler3k : itchy, potato, habibi
[2015-11-07 15:50:57] zanza : sup trading bruh @podizzler3k
[2015-11-07 15:51:15] podizzler3k : hey bruh better get off that isolate
[2015-11-07 15:51:22] podizzler3k : and im not talking about whey protein
[2015-11-07 15:54:00] dorothy490 : BitMEX_Sam: what is that 41626 order? liqidation?
[2015-11-07 15:55:14] nickhnt : dorothy490: probably
[2015-11-07 15:58:17] sleger : it was
[2015-11-07 16:02:37] dorothy490 : BitMEX_Sam: your "charting" section of the site shows that cryptowat.ch has charts but thoese doesnt works
[2015-11-07 16:03:30] mitior : i likw big butts i can not lie
[2015-11-07 16:04:59] dorothy490 : also this page shows "volume" bigger than at OKC. is it volume of users using this bot or what https://bit-delta-one.com/
[2015-11-07 16:08:46] zanza : Bitmex has 100x leverage, so it makes sense it has high volume