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BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

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[2015-11-06 12:41:01] BitMEX_Wally : Scottv53: Ys
[2015-11-06 12:41:33] BitMEX_Wally : You have isolate margin disabled, so it should be fine
[2015-11-06 12:42:07] TschavaTschigger : BitMEX_Wally: are there any plans to make the leverage in isolated margin customizable in the soon future? I know I can add margin to a position manually, but this requires a position to be open already. Sometimes I want to open up a position outside of mark price range, and I dont want to switch to cross-margin for obvious reasons
[2015-11-06 12:42:38] Scottv53 : see my wallet balance take note the balance it s @BitMEX_Wally
[2015-11-06 12:43:01] BitMEX_Wally : Scottv53: Before you click market close
[2015-11-06 12:43:15] BitMEX_Wally : Just realise that you shorted at 426
[2015-11-06 12:43:20] BitMEX_Wally : And you are about to buy back at 500
[2015-11-06 12:43:25] BitMEX_Wally : That is a big loss
[2015-11-06 12:44:00] BitMEX_Wally : Actually the offer on XBTZ15 is now 465
[2015-11-06 12:44:02] BitMEX_Wally : But still a loss
[2015-11-06 12:44:45] BitMEX_Wally : TschavaTschigger: we are working on it
[2015-11-06 12:45:02] TschavaTschigger : BitMEX_Wally: cool thanks
[2015-11-06 12:45:31] wurstgelee : TschavaTschigger: @BitMEX_Wally +1 ;)
[2015-11-06 12:45:51] Scottv53 : on pnl indicates postive @BitMEX_Wally
[2015-11-06 12:46:41] BitMEX_Wally : Scottv53: PNL is positive at the current mark price, which is 404.66
[2015-11-06 12:46:43] dorothy490 : BitMEX_Wally: why "witheld" profit being used to maintain margin on my position but I cannot use this "profit" to add margin into isolated position?
[2015-11-06 12:46:46] BitMEX_Wally : It's not positive if you buy at the market price
[2015-11-06 12:47:38] BitMEX_Wally : dorothy490: All profit (realised and unrealised) is withheld until settlement or rebalance
[2015-11-06 12:49:03] dorothy490 : yes but this profit being used to maintain margin on cross mode
[2015-11-06 12:49:16] dorothy490 : however I cannot use it to manually add this part into isolated position
[2015-11-06 12:49:24] Scottv53 : BitMEX_Wally: Ok got it. there's diffirence between market and Mark price.
[2015-11-06 12:49:31] dorothy490 : non logical
[2015-11-06 12:50:18] BitMEX_Wally : dorothy490: Let me check your account
[2015-11-06 12:51:08] dorothy490 : I doesnt have witheld profits atm
[2015-11-06 12:51:28] dorothy490 : I jsut noticed it earlier, when I had big profit yesterday but was able to use only "avaliable" part of the balance to add into "isolated" position
[2015-11-06 12:52:53] BitMEX_Wally : All unrealisedPnl on the position is already considered margin on the position
[2015-11-06 12:53:27] dorothy490 : BitMEX_Wally: not talkingabout current situation. Talking about "Witheld profit" (which is unable to use before settlement). That part is not possible to add into isolated position
[2015-11-06 12:54:11] dorothy490 : also its not possible to copy from this trollbox :)
[2015-11-06 12:54:56] BitMEX_Wally : So yes, you can only move 'Avaialble Margin' into a position
[2015-11-06 12:55:02] BitMEX_Wally : So any withheld profit is not 'availble'
[2015-11-06 12:55:24] BitMEX_Wally : However, any unrealised profit on your `XBT24H` position is already on the position in isolated mode
[2015-11-06 12:55:50] BitMEX_Wally : This unrealised profit is unavailable to any other position, but it is available to your XBT24H position.
[2015-11-06 12:55:56] BitMEX_Wally : i.e. you can lose what to made
[2015-11-06 12:55:59] BitMEX_Wally : You can lose what you made
[2015-11-06 12:56:03] dorothy490 : so please describe why it is logical to use "withheld profit" to on cross mode but not possible to use on isolated margin
[2015-11-06 12:56:20] BitMEX_Wally : If you put isolated margin on
[2015-11-06 12:56:24] dorothy490 : I understand that I can lose it, question is why you are not allowing me to lose it on isolated mode :)
[2015-11-06 12:56:27] BitMEX_Wally : The 'withheld profit' is already there
[2015-11-06 12:56:30] BitMEX_Wally : It's not illogical
[2015-11-06 12:56:35] BitMEX_Wally : It is already added to the isolate margin position
[2015-11-06 12:56:51] BitMEX_Wally : Isolate margin means you only lose the 1% initial margin plus any profit
[2015-11-06 12:57:38] dorothy490 : Yes, and its possible to increase margin
[2015-11-06 12:57:41] dorothy490 : on isolatde
[2015-11-06 12:58:20] dorothy490 : and I can increase margin on isolated from "avalaible" part of the balance
[2015-11-06 12:58:29] dorothy490 : question why I can't use "withheld" profits for tha
[2015-11-06 12:58:54] BitMEX_Wally : I am trying to tell you that you cn
[2015-11-06 12:58:55] BitMEX_Wally : In fact, you can't not
[2015-11-06 13:00:31] BitMEX_Wally : You went short at 381.44 and the mark price is now 380.59. You can't 'add' this profit to your position, it is already there.
[2015-11-06 13:00:44] dorothy490 : man im totally not talking about CURRENT situation
[2015-11-06 13:00:53] BitMEX_Wally : dorothy490: Give me an example
[2015-11-06 13:02:10] dorothy490 : sorry dont get you. yesterday I had "balance" 1.5 and withheld profit like 1. At the time I had open ed isolated position with margin ,lelts say 0.1. I had no other orders pending When I tried to increase margin , my "avaliable part" was only about 0.4
[2015-11-06 13:04:07] dorothy490 : perhaps numbers here is off, just to show the concept
[2015-11-06 13:07:00] BitMEX_Wally : Sounds correct to me
[2015-11-06 13:07:14] BitMEX_Wally : Balance of 1.5 with 1 withheld means only 0.5 available
[2015-11-06 13:07:21] BitMEX_Wally : 0.1 used in margin, then leaves 0.4
[2015-11-06 13:09:41] dorothy490 : ok why then this "1" locked is being used on cross but I'm not able to use it on "isolated"?
[2015-11-06 13:09:44] dorothy490 : whats the difference
[2015-11-06 13:10:03] BitMEX_Wally : This "1" is not available on either cross or isolated
[2015-11-06 13:10:29] BitMEX_Wally : Isolated would use 0.1 but cross would us 0.5
[2015-11-06 13:10:31] dorothy490 : it will become "avaliable" when needed to cover my ass when price going agaisnt me
[2015-11-06 13:10:56] dorothy490 : if price go against me my full 1.5 will be used
[2015-11-06 13:11:05] dorothy490 : till liquidation
[2015-11-06 13:11:08] BitMEX_Wally : It won't
[2015-11-06 13:11:28] dorothy490 : I had this situation earlier, where my "profits" all dissapeared even thoug hthey were "witheheld"
[2015-11-06 13:11:36] dorothy490 : so I thought its how system works
[2015-11-06 13:11:54] BitMEX_Wally : Let me look into it
[2015-11-06 13:11:58] dorothy490 : yes please
[2015-11-06 13:12:14] dorothy490 : going off for a while, cheers
[2015-11-06 13:12:15] TschavaTschigger : maybe they changed from being withheld to available while you were in the position? sounds a lot like it
[2015-11-06 13:12:27] BitMEX_Wally : If you have realised profit and unrealised losses the at settlement they are netted together and you only pay tax (or DPE) on the net amount
[2015-11-06 13:12:43] dorothy490 : can you reprodue this situation on test perhaps
[2015-11-06 13:12:47] dorothy490 : im going off guys sorry
[2015-11-06 13:12:57] BitMEX_Wally : Ok, I will do some tests
[2015-11-06 13:21:10] j8 : BitMEX_Wally: while you're at it i had a strange case with isolated margin a while back.. i put my entire balance into isolated positions, and would sometimes get liquidation e-mails when closing part of a position, i guess my account margin was briefly going negative in the process. nothing was liquidated though since nothing was on cross margin
[2015-11-06 13:21:32] BitMEX_Wally : Yes I think this is to do with gross open premium
[2015-11-06 13:22:06] BitMEX_Wally : I need to suppress those emails
[2015-11-06 13:36:07] podizzler3k_ : you mean the scathing ones where people are pissed they got liquidated?
[2015-11-06 13:36:08] podizzler3k_ : haha
[2015-11-06 13:37:04] j8 : the guy yesterday that kept asking for a refund...
[2015-11-06 13:40:57] TschavaTschigger : lol he was a pain in the ass
[2015-11-06 13:41:18] TschavaTschigger : threatened with writing an article lol
[2015-11-06 13:42:28] j8 : clearly didn't bother to learn how the site works
[2015-11-06 13:43:40] sleger : just sounded so stupid to even read
[2015-11-06 13:46:55] habibi : what was his nick guys?
[2015-11-06 13:55:23] sleger : stg like onohammoni
[2015-11-06 13:56:14] dynamike23 : what a doorknob
[2015-11-06 13:57:06] zanza : looks like the premium stabilized
[2015-11-06 13:58:03] habibi : sleger: i thought babybaby
[2015-11-06 13:58:20] sleger : no
[2015-11-06 13:58:35] sleger : or there's more than 1 :'(
[2015-11-06 14:01:08] stf28 : nobody buys? it's climbing !
[2015-11-06 14:02:31] kasman5 : buy then
[2015-11-06 14:02:47] TschavaTschigger : have fun at buying
[2015-11-06 14:04:13] stf28 : having lots of fun, would have a lot more if i could seel it after ^^
[2015-11-06 14:07:21] zanza : does anyone know how to become a MM?
[2015-11-06 14:09:58] sleger : place limit orders
[2015-11-06 14:17:29] BitMEX_Sam : zanza: If you are willing to quote a certain size and spread for an extended period of time, contact us at info@bitmex.com and we can help you get started re: rate limits, and discuss fee discounts if the size is significant
[2015-11-06 14:17:51] sleger : what fee discounts ? If you make markets the maker fee is zero anyways ?
[2015-11-06 14:18:15] zanza : does MM need to run "bot software" ?
[2015-11-06 14:18:26] BitMEX_Sam : Depending on the size we can offer a rebate
[2015-11-06 14:18:58] BitMEX_Sam : zanza: Typically yes, doing so by hand generally cannot accomplish the extended market presence and accuracy needed
[2015-11-06 14:19:08] sleger : got you. You should just let people try to do it as is, and once they are proven successful then negotiate with them, because most of the time you will lose your time because most wont make it, just my advise.
[2015-11-06 14:20:31] BitMEX_Sam : Understood - in most cases we need to relax rate limits, so there still needs to be some conversation
[2015-11-06 14:20:45] BitMEX_Sam : But we are able to easily monitor size & spread & quoting time, so we generally adjust incentives based on performance
[2015-11-06 14:21:09] sleger : Seems fair
[2015-11-06 14:25:07] TschavaTschigger : would really like to know if market bots on bitmex are profitable... looking at the last days I dont really think so
[2015-11-06 14:25:30] TschavaTschigger : market just moves through them
[2015-11-06 14:25:32] sleger : hard to say for the main one, there is only one thats relevant so far
[2015-11-06 14:26:23] j8 : there's nothing for them to dump into when the market flips
[2015-11-06 14:26:53] j8 : so it could easily turn bad for them
[2015-11-06 14:26:55] BitMEX_Sam : Well, for an mm bot, the market flipping is a good thing if it's been steady in one direction for a while
[2015-11-06 14:27:33] j8 : yeah i suppose so if they're on the right side of it
[2015-11-06 14:27:54] j8 : i imagine it was quoting a $50 premium the other day because it was short
[2015-11-06 14:28:53] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah that premium was nuts.
[2015-11-06 14:30:12] j8 : i can't believe `XBT24H` traded up to $555 and settled at $387.44
[2015-11-06 14:31:42] j8 : could have had 40 times your deposit out of that
[2015-11-06 14:31:46] BitMEX_Sam : Sure could
[2015-11-06 14:32:07] stf28 : BitMEX_Sam: does anyone has performances better than 10x ?
[2015-11-06 14:32:13] BitMEX_Sam : stf28: Definitely
[2015-11-06 14:32:43] BitMEX_Sam : I'll have to ask Wally to pull the numbers but we want to do a recurring blog post / leaderboard to show some of those off
[2015-11-06 14:32:49] TschavaTschigger : even I have 5x and i fucked up hard many times
[2015-11-06 14:32:55] BitMEX_Sam : We used to have a leaderboard back in beta when everyone was slinging fake coin
[2015-11-06 14:33:04] BitMEX_Sam : We may bring it back and allow opt-in username tagging
[2015-11-06 14:33:13] TschavaTschigger : lol this word filter.. haha
[2015-11-06 14:33:14] stf28 : nice ! i wish them not to loose it !
[2015-11-06 14:33:45] BitMEX_Sam : TschavaTschigger: Yeah I couldn't resist that one
[2015-11-06 14:40:18] dorothy490 : What will happen with fair price if bfx flash crash to like 200?
[2015-11-06 14:41:47] BitMEX_Sam : dorothy490: We mark to the XBX index, which would automatically deweight any exchange that becomes an extreme outlier
[2015-11-06 14:42:03] BitMEX_Sam : The BFX flash crash is actually one of the larger motivators for us to move off BFX as a reference and onto TradeBlock XBX
[2015-11-06 14:45:06] sleger : the problem is that nobody knows the exact calculation method
[2015-11-06 14:45:14] sleger : so they could trade here, manipulate the index and profit
[2015-11-06 14:45:28] sleger : nobody would even know...
[2015-11-06 14:45:34] sleger : you need a clear formula
[2015-11-06 14:46:28] BitMEX_Sam : I agree with that sentiment and I'm being assured XBX will be more transparent in the future
[2015-11-06 14:47:26] BitMEX_Sam : Unfortunately there is no other index (that we know of) that can properly do deweighting to ensure that an outlier, like a BFX flash crash, does not wreck the index
[2015-11-06 14:49:32] sleger : I dont know one either, but is this really such a problem ? I am not so sure
[2015-11-06 14:50:00] sleger : maybe a flash crash is a leading indicator and by ignoring it you are not adjusting your price fast enough
[2015-11-06 14:50:38] j8 : the day bfx went to 160 in august, we were using it as the mark price. i don't think anything traded below 210-220 though
[2015-11-06 14:50:53] j8 : which is around where the other exchanges bottomed
[2015-11-06 14:51:50] j8 : note that XBX doesn't time average - it can be fast enough but only as the whole market moves together
[2015-11-06 15:17:58] habibi : noone here believes in going up or noone plays today here?
[2015-11-06 15:18:20] BitMEX_Sam : I think everyone's understandably cautious today
[2015-11-06 15:18:29] j8 : i have no position for the first time in weeks
[2015-11-06 15:19:16] habibi : first time i see finex price same as here
[2015-11-06 15:19:19] j8 : gonna take a little break from trading, it's been high stress and low sleep
[2015-11-06 15:19:30] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah for sure, last few days have been madness
[2015-11-06 15:19:32] BitMEX_Sam : Happy to see a break tbh
[2015-11-06 15:20:20] j8 : yup, who can complain about consolodating here
[2015-11-06 15:32:22] wurstgelee : had 10h sleep last night
[2015-11-06 15:32:35] wurstgelee : just awesome
[2015-11-06 15:33:08] zanza : lol @wurstgelee first time in a while?
[2015-11-06 15:33:28] wurstgelee : more than the 3 nights before combined ;)
[2015-11-06 15:33:51] wurstgelee : or at least same, not more probably
[2015-11-06 15:41:00] gustavo7 : wow pressing against resistance
[2015-11-06 15:47:19] wurstgelee : we have a negative premium now? ;)
[2015-11-06 15:47:54] zanza : yup
[2015-11-06 15:48:09] wurstgelee : + again
[2015-11-06 15:52:09] BitMEX_Sam : yep premium's back, about $1.30
[2015-11-06 15:52:44] Scottv53 : we pushing up again.
[2015-11-06 15:53:05] wurstgelee : excellent
[2015-11-06 15:53:06] wurstgelee : :D
[2015-11-06 15:54:07] Scottv53 : dead cat bounce?
[2015-11-06 15:54:16] wurstgelee : we will see
[2015-11-06 16:01:24] gielbier : dead cats don't bounce
[2015-11-06 16:02:31] wurstgelee : throw them on a trampoline
[2015-11-06 16:02:32] wurstgelee : they do
[2015-11-06 16:08:00] wurstgelee : excellent
[2015-11-06 16:08:08] wurstgelee : finally..some upwards action
[2015-11-06 16:09:01] kasman5 : weeklies here vs ok coin so much lower
[2015-11-06 16:09:33] Yumi : okc uses different index
[2015-11-06 16:09:45] cekseh : oh wow, weeklies here is being traded again
[2015-11-06 16:09:46] cekseh : nice
[2015-11-06 16:09:56] wurstgelee : yep, just bought some :p
[2015-11-06 16:10:11] cekseh : stopped looking at it after seeing 50$ spreads
[2015-11-06 16:15:02] BitMEX_Sam : premium is back on
[2015-11-06 16:16:18] wurstgelee : yep
[2015-11-06 16:17:15] podizzler3k_ : FOMOMG
[2015-11-06 16:17:47] j8 : dammit i just said i was taking a break.
[2015-11-06 16:18:49] j8 : whatever. up is fine
[2015-11-06 16:18:52] podizzler3k_ : haha
[2015-11-06 16:18:56] podizzler3k_ : no sleepfor you
[2015-11-06 16:19:05] podizzler3k_ : only coffee and energy drinks
[2015-11-06 16:19:22] j8 : too much coffee
[2015-11-06 16:19:23] podizzler3k_ : youre gonna get rich just in time to keel over from stress
[2015-11-06 16:20:09] j8 : and no one will get my btc cause it's all encrypted keys
[2015-11-06 16:20:18] zanza : 33k buy on the `XBTH16`
[2015-11-06 16:20:53] wurstgelee : wtf....premium u asshole
[2015-11-06 16:21:09] ayy lmao : did assigned margin change?
[2015-11-06 16:21:11] wurstgelee : those jumps of +5$ dollars are uncomforting
[2015-11-06 16:21:19] ayy lmao : looks like its adds intial margin plus profit
[2015-11-06 16:21:35] j8 : as i suspected... liquidations on `XBTZ15` and `XBTH16` didn't get filled last week.
[2015-11-06 16:21:47] wurstgelee : i just lost a position because of that....
[2015-11-06 16:22:11] Yumi : they did @j8
[2015-11-06 16:22:23] j8 : well there's DPE again as soon as we moved up
[2015-11-06 16:22:39] BitMEX_Wally : j8: It's a new liquidation
[2015-11-06 16:22:58] wurstgelee : BitMEX_Wally: did u just adjust the fair price by several dollars back and forth?
[2015-11-06 16:23:13] wurstgelee : forth and back in that case
[2015-11-06 16:23:32] j8 : BitMEX_Wally: when rebalance happened lower than market week, does that mean people can reisolate at 25x at a low liquidation price?
[2015-11-06 16:24:12] wurstgelee : BitMEX_Wally: ?
[2015-11-06 16:24:48] Yumi : market moved up a down
[2015-11-06 16:25:21] wurstgelee : ofc...but 5$ jumps in fair price at once when the market does mabe move 2$ are shit
[2015-11-06 16:25:25] wurstgelee : especially on 100x
[2015-11-06 16:25:38] habibi : its just too much influence from bitmex market for fair price, makes its easy to manipulate few $+ or -
[2015-11-06 16:25:46] BitMEX_Wally : j8: At rebalance all PNL hits the wallet so you can do what you want with it
[2015-11-06 16:26:44] BitMEX_Wally : If you were in profit and had isolate margin enabled, then at rebalance we leave the PNL on the position as margin, so that your liquidation price does not change
[2015-11-06 16:26:46] BitMEX_Wally : You can always take it out
[2015-11-06 16:26:51] Scottv53 : wurstgelee: have you made a video on how you trade on bitmex?
[2015-11-06 16:26:57] BitMEX_Wally : I think Arthur made a few
[2015-11-06 16:27:25] BitMEX_Sam : ayy lmao: Yes, we've updated the margin display on positions so it includes positive profits
[2015-11-06 16:27:40] wurstgelee : BitMEX_Wally: how exactly does the fair price basis get calculated
[2015-11-06 16:27:44] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEMjYgPjQX0
[2015-11-06 16:27:45] wurstgelee : ?
[2015-11-06 16:27:52] BitMEX_Sam : wurstgelee: https://www.bitmex.com/app/dynamicProfitEqualisation#fair-price-marking
[2015-11-06 16:28:15] wurstgelee : lol..now it jumped $5 up again
[2015-11-06 16:28:28] wurstgelee : while market is moving down.,..
[2015-11-06 16:28:30] BitMEX_Sam : wurstgelee: On which contract?
[2015-11-06 16:28:37] wurstgelee : oh no nevermind
[2015-11-06 16:28:41] wurstgelee : my fault
[2015-11-06 16:28:44] wurstgelee : wrong tab :D
[2015-11-06 16:29:04] wurstgelee : btw.-.."every friday" keeps getting renamed to "every 6 days"
[2015-11-06 16:29:14] wurstgelee : fixed after refresh
[2015-11-06 16:29:20] wurstgelee : *page refresh
[2015-11-06 16:29:39] BitMEX_Sam : Yep, fixed that one about an hour ago
[2015-11-06 16:29:49] BitMEX_Sam : You won't see it rename again
[2015-11-06 16:29:55] wurstgelee : ok, thanks
[2015-11-06 16:30:54] j8 : BitMEX_Wally: if the mark price is $20 below the bid going into rebalance, someone can sell it, pocket the rebalanced pnl, then let themself get liquidated at a net profit
[2015-11-06 16:32:21] podizzler3k_ : hmz
[2015-11-06 16:32:22] podizzler3k_ : i like your thinking
[2015-11-06 16:33:06] BitMEX_Wally : If the bid is above the mark price then you have to post additional margin
[2015-11-06 16:33:08] BitMEX_Wally : It's call gross open premium
[2015-11-06 16:33:29] BitMEX_Wally : (the buyer has to post it)
[2015-11-06 16:33:29] j8 : but you get that in your rebalanced pnl, no?
[2015-11-06 16:33:51] BitMEX_Wally : If you sell above the mark price then you'll only make PNL that the seller had as margin
[2015-11-06 16:34:41] j8 : sure, still seems like its a way to cheat the system. take a big gain at rebalance then socialize your loss
[2015-11-06 16:34:43] zanza : is the XBT settlement fee .05%? (same as taker)
[2015-11-06 16:34:59] BitMEX_Wally : zanza: Yes
[2015-11-06 16:36:30] BitMEX_Wally : j8: I am not sure if it would work
[2015-11-06 16:37:08] BitMEX_Wally : If you know the mark price is too low and will rise after rebalance then maybe
[2015-11-06 16:37:13] BitMEX_Wally : But if you could predict the market....
[2015-11-06 16:37:21] j8 : say mark is 6% below bid. i get 6% worth of pnl, then after rebalance i isolate and lose 4% initial margin
[2015-11-06 16:37:54] j8 : worst case scenario
[2015-11-06 16:38:21] zanza : but based on the fact that socialed losses here are rare, I don't think its a problem
[2015-11-06 16:38:52] j8 : they won't be rare if there's a way to profit by causing them
[2015-11-06 16:39:06] zanza : then go for it and make money :)
[2015-11-06 16:39:23] zanza : im guessing its not as eaasy as you think
[2015-11-06 16:39:28] j8 : i'd rather help this market grow than sabotage it
[2015-11-06 16:39:31] BitMEX_Sam : I find it unlikely you'd see a bid $20 above mark right before a rebalance
[2015-11-06 16:39:50] BitMEX_Sam : It's a guarantee you'll lose money
[2015-11-06 16:39:57] j8 : on `XBTZ15` and `XBTH16` this was definitely the case @BitMEX_Sam
[2015-11-06 16:40:22] BitMEX_Sam : Well, then someone made a very bad trade
[2015-11-06 16:40:27] j8 : i had a short on `XBTH16` and was considering the implications if it rebalanced so low
[2015-11-06 16:40:41] j8 : but ended up getting filled in the end.
[2015-11-06 16:40:51] BitMEX_Sam : Sorry I might be a bit discombobulated, let me think about it a bit more
[2015-11-06 16:40:56] j8 : BitMEX_Sam: it's just that the basis needs to be adjusted up
[2015-11-06 16:41:16] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah. So it's a consequence of the fair price not following the market closely enough
[2015-11-06 16:41:17] zanza : thats how healthy markets work, j8 try it and report back =]
[2015-11-06 16:41:25] BitMEX_Sam : Which is what our FairMid scheme (which is live on 24H) is correcting
[2015-11-06 16:42:00] j8 : yes. my related concern is that there is a hesitation to raise the basis when it will liquidate people
[2015-11-06 16:42:27] BitMEX_Sam : Right - and this is why the system will be completely automatic in the near future
[2015-11-06 16:42:31] BitMEX_Sam : And already is on 24H
[2015-11-06 16:42:40] j8 : i mean, DPE on `XBTZ15` would be much worse if the mark price was mid market
[2015-11-06 16:42:55] laisee : nomal case is to buy/ell cash and sell/buy futures if fair price moves away from expected.
[2015-11-06 16:43:05] BitMEX_Wally : Yes, we are working on an automated system for marking that will let us mark to last price but with protection against manipulation
[2015-11-06 16:43:53] j8 : `XBTZ15` mid market is about 200% annualized at the moment
[2015-11-06 16:44:11] BitMEX_Wally : XBTZ15 spread is too wide, no market maker is quoting it seems
[2015-11-06 16:44:17] sleger : yes but that also where it trades, look at the last trades
[2015-11-06 16:44:32] j8 : it's trading a full 100 dollars over mark
[2015-11-06 16:44:58] sleger : yes but that is what it trades at, and not for a tiny size, not just one trade, so that is the real price
[2015-11-06 16:45:08] j8 : yep
[2015-11-06 16:50:57] zanza : is there any way to feed the bitMEX API into a spreadsheet?
[2015-11-06 16:51:09] zanza : im really noob with this kind of stuff
[2015-11-06 16:51:16] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.bitmex.com/app/excelPlugin
[2015-11-06 16:51:21] zanza : :o
[2015-11-06 16:51:57] sleger : that was great of bitmex to do this work
[2015-11-06 16:52:06] zanza : yeah, thats amazing
[2015-11-06 16:52:09] BitMEX_Wally : Credit for this plugin goes to Steve Cook
[2015-11-06 16:52:12] sleger : Not sure if any other exchange has done that before
[2015-11-06 16:52:16] BitMEX_Wally : Who we encourage and reward
[2015-11-06 16:53:39] kasman5 : I cant get the thing to work. Might have another go
[2015-11-06 16:56:08] mikeh : there isn't a mobile app is there?
[2015-11-06 16:56:13] Yumi : the excel plugin stopped working for me when there was change of time format in api
[2015-11-06 16:58:39] kasman5 : so how did you fix that?
[2015-11-06 16:59:08] Yumi : I didnt
[2015-11-06 17:01:04] BitMEX_Sam : Hmm. Let me see if I can fix that
[2015-11-06 17:03:27] kasman5 : Everytime i open the example spreaadsheet my excel crashes
[2015-11-06 17:10:13] dorothy490 : WHERE IS YOUR FOMO SPIRIT GUYSS
[2015-11-06 17:11:07] TschavaTschigger : market is sooo boring today
[2015-11-06 17:11:18] TschavaTschigger : i wanna ride rollercoaster again
[2015-11-06 17:12:30] BitMEX_Sam : kasman5: I'm seeing the crash as well
[2015-11-06 17:12:35] BitMEX_Sam : I'll see what we can do
[2015-11-06 17:12:46] joequant : I found another glitch. I want to put in a sell order at 520 at XBTZ15. But the system rejects my order because it says that it will put me in liquidation.
[2015-11-06 17:13:46] joequant : It really shouldn't shouldn't since my margins are calculated with the fair price, correct?
[2015-11-06 17:15:09] kasman5 : BitMEX_Sam: cheers
[2015-11-06 17:15:14] Yumi : fair price is 424
[2015-11-06 17:16:00] joequant : right which is why I want to put in an order for 525
[2015-11-06 17:16:01] BitMEX_Wally : joequant: Do you have a position in XBTZ15?
[2015-11-06 17:16:07] joequant : Yes.
[2015-11-06 17:16:12] Yumi : its probably over your liquidation
[2015-11-06 17:16:14] BitMEX_Wally : What's the liquidation price?
[2015-11-06 17:16:25] joequant : 478.60
[2015-11-06 17:16:39] sleger : joequant: if you want to commit suicide there are easier ways
[2015-11-06 17:16:58] Yumi : I had same thing many times
[2015-11-06 17:17:11] joequant : actually this shouldn't kill me since I've hedged the order with XBT24H
[2015-11-06 17:17:32] j8 : can't share the profits for margin though
[2015-11-06 17:17:40] joequant : I'm long XBT24H and shortXBTZ15
[2015-11-06 17:17:58] BitMEX_Wally : joequant: Yes, the profit on XBT24H is withheld, so it cannot be used to cover the short
[2015-11-06 17:18:06] joequant : OK.
[2015-11-06 17:18:23] j8 : i've done this a lot, and if it moves enough you will run out of margin
[2015-11-06 17:18:44] BitMEX_Wally : Joe has been with us since the beginning, there's been a few tweaks to our margining policy since last year
[2015-11-06 17:19:27] Yumi : if he is short Z15 and fari price is 423, his liq is 478, why cant he sell at 520? it should show him instant theoretical profit after selling?
[2015-11-06 17:19:28] j8 : you will convert your balance to withheld profit, and could potentially have a clawback on the profitable side
[2015-11-06 17:20:33] BitMEX_Wally : The reason we reject this order is because we assume he will be liquidated before his order is filled
[2015-11-06 17:20:47] joequant : Ah..
[2015-11-06 17:20:52] BitMEX_Wally : And he would end up filling his own liquidation...
[2015-11-06 17:21:01] BitMEX_Wally : Which would lead to some interesting support tickets
[2015-11-06 17:22:05] joequant : OK. Suppose I don't buy anything, and I have a hedged short and long position, since things are based on the fair price....
[2015-11-06 17:22:12] Yumi : It would make sense if liquidation was from last traded price but not from fair price
[2015-11-06 17:22:21] joequant : I shouldn't get margin called, if the price spikes upward, right?
[2015-11-06 17:22:24] BitMEX_Wally : Yumi: We are working on that
[2015-11-06 17:22:54] BitMEX_Wally : joequant: Unfortunately due to DPE the profit from one contract cannot cover losses on another
[2015-11-06 17:22:59] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.bitmex.com/app/dynamicProfitEqualisation
[2015-11-06 17:23:12] mikeh : ROE is based on the fair price isn't it?
[2015-11-06 17:23:21] BitMEX_Wally : mikeh: Yes
[2015-11-06 17:24:16] joequant : but the liqudation price is based off of the mark price, right?
[2015-11-06 17:24:23] BitMEX_Wally : joequant: Yes
[2015-11-06 17:24:42] joequant : OK.
[2015-11-06 17:24:57] joequant : But everything rebalanced on the Friday.
[2015-11-06 17:25:20] joequant : So I only get a margin call if the price spiked upward too much before the rebalance, correct?
[2015-11-06 17:25:31] BitMEX_Wally : Correct
[2015-11-06 17:28:06] BitMEX_Wally : I'm heading out now guys, catch you later
[2015-11-06 17:28:49] joequant : ok. so I'm hedging the XBTZ15 with the daily future, since the daily future settles daily, any profits I make will be counted to the margin for XBTZ15 on settlement, correct?
[2015-11-06 17:29:47] joequant : If that's the case, then I just have to watch things each day at settlement.
[2015-11-06 17:30:38] zanza : bye @BitMEX_Wally
[2015-11-06 17:30:46] joequant : juggling chain saws.... :-)
[2015-11-06 17:33:27] laisee : 400 approaches, slowly.
[2015-11-06 17:35:33] Yumi : joequant: you have to be careful, fair basis of Z15 might be adjusted up as the contract is trading atm $60-100 above the fair price
[2015-11-06 17:41:10] mikeh : fair price is lagging a bit here
[2015-11-06 17:42:58] joequant : gotcha.
[2015-11-06 17:43:36] joequant : I just want to make sure that when the chain saw rips my arm off I understand why :-)
[2015-11-06 17:48:08] joequant : My positions are net long, but I need a short to lock in my profits if bitcoin goes down.
[2015-11-06 17:49:00] joequant : Right now my thinking is that XBT spikes upward, then I'll be able to get the funds to cover my margins and be able to hedge.
[2015-11-06 17:49:45] joequant : At some point if the markets go down, then the long dated futyres should become operational and I can lock my profits.
[2015-11-06 18:06:02] j8 : i'd like to re-long the long dated futures... lower though
[2015-11-06 18:08:05] jung1 : so what now? we're going to 1k?
[2015-11-06 18:10:26] j8 : i don't think we're going anywhere in a hurry
[2015-11-06 18:12:38] podizzler3k_ : 750 by tonight!
[2015-11-06 18:13:21] jung1 : CNY?
[2015-11-06 18:15:21] podizzler3k_ : euro
[2015-11-06 18:15:25] j8 : 7500 CNY double top
[2015-11-06 18:15:41] podizzler3k_ : oh wait euro is less than dollar now
[2015-11-06 18:15:43] podizzler3k_ : AUD
[2015-11-06 18:16:11] podizzler3k_ : i guess its 1.07euro to usd
[2015-11-06 18:16:14] podizzler3k_ : or vice versa
[2015-11-06 18:16:18] podizzler3k_ : whatever this isnt forex
[2015-11-06 18:16:42] podizzler3k_ : 1 US Dollar equals 1.42 Australian Dollar
[2015-11-06 18:16:44] podizzler3k_ : strong
[2015-11-06 18:19:47] jung1 : funny that USD is a bit stronger if you compare it to pln
[2015-11-06 18:20:07] jung1 : it up about 0,1PLN so one Bitcoin is 40pln more expensive
[2015-11-06 18:20:09] jung1 : http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=PLN
[2015-11-06 18:20:14] zanza : polish zlany
[2015-11-06 18:20:20] jung1 : zloty
[2015-11-06 18:32:31] gustavo7 : yes dump
[2015-11-06 18:35:53] zanza : are we in a downward channel ?
[2015-11-06 18:36:48] gustavo7 : i'd say a widening downward channel
[2015-11-06 18:38:19] gustavo7 : which means it could break into a little recovery, returning to the trend it seems
[2015-11-06 18:38:55] gustavo7 : but give it a week or two it will bubble down more
[2015-11-06 18:39:37] TschavaTschigger : gustavo7: u better short xbtz15s then.. they go for 500+ ;)
[2015-11-06 18:40:25] gustavo7 : i'm holding enough xbu already
[2015-11-06 18:40:28] podizzler3k_ : a week or 2
[2015-11-06 18:40:29] podizzler3k_ : wtf
[2015-11-06 18:40:35] podizzler3k_ : i need 750 by tonight
[2015-11-06 18:40:46] SnackyCoins : lol what
[2015-11-06 18:40:56] zanza : how is the spread on XBU @gustavo7 ?
[2015-11-06 18:40:57] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : This is what I see as far as channels go
[2015-11-06 18:40:58] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : http://i.cubeupload.com/6F94OP.pnghttp://i.cubeupload.com/6F94OP.png
[2015-11-06 18:41:09] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : http://i.cubeupload.com/6F94OP.png
[2015-11-06 18:41:09] SnackyCoins : your margin call gonna raise up to 749 or something?
[2015-11-06 18:41:36] BitMEX_Sam : Hmm zloty is down again vs. usd
[2015-11-06 18:41:52] BitMEX_Sam : When I was last in Krakow it was quite good, makes a cheap city even cheaper
[2015-11-06 18:42:45] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : Wow, no premium here today. We're below Fair Price and Indicative Settlement Price
[2015-11-06 18:42:58] zanza : yup, there was some negatices too
[2015-11-06 18:43:17] gustavo7 : xbu spread is not for trading, just holding and recovering
[2015-11-06 18:43:17] BitMEX_Sam : Markets are fickle
[2015-11-06 18:43:41] TschavaTschigger : finally something happening again
[2015-11-06 18:44:03] TschavaTschigger : I love rollercoasters
[2015-11-06 18:44:04] podizzler3k_ : something horrible
[2015-11-06 18:44:18] kasman5 : should have held my short longer
[2015-11-06 18:44:24] SnackyCoins : markets are the most fickle, irrational, bitchy date you've ever had. You'll be paying every step of the way and in the end she wont even put out. Also bitcoin is a redhead
[2015-11-06 18:44:54] gustavo7 : i had way to much xbu short in the run up, lost 20% by liquidation
[2015-11-06 18:45:36] gustavo7 : but i've made gains on the daily ever since (going both ways) so i'll just wait this correction out
[2015-11-06 18:46:02] kasman5 : still bullish
[2015-11-06 18:46:04] kasman5 : ?
[2015-11-06 18:46:18] TschavaTschigger : waiting out on 24h is pretty risky but ok
[2015-11-06 18:46:43] gustavo7 : no i wait out xbu short for weeks, while i long the dips on the daily
[2015-11-06 18:47:03] TschavaTschigger : oh ok
[2015-11-06 18:51:07] lnostdal : would be awesome if XBT24H worked on tradingview again .. feed has been dead for some time again
[2015-11-06 18:51:12] gustavo7 : haha some times you gotta have luck though with waiting out: a few hours ago i sold quite a lot at 381, saw it go to 399 and now someone took it for me at 371
[2015-11-06 18:52:01] sleger : so everyone bearish that the premium is so <0 ?
[2015-11-06 18:54:49] gustavo7 : gonna buy that dip to 360ish
[2015-11-06 18:54:56] BitMEX_Sam : Inostdal: It does work
[2015-11-06 18:55:04] BitMEX_Sam : I'm looking at an up-to-date chart right now
[2015-11-06 18:56:08] kasman5 : BitMEX_Sam: is there any spot vs futures indicators for bitmex tradingview charts?
[2015-11-06 18:56:24] BitMEX_Sam : kasman5: We are working to get binning working on the underlying index, so you'll be able to overlay them
[2015-11-06 18:56:30] BitMEX_Sam : You can do so on tradingview.com though
[2015-11-06 18:59:13] jung1 : http://blog.okcoin.com/post/132659246694/warning-bitcoin-based-products-and-scams
[2015-11-06 18:59:23] jung1 : that pump what MMM
[2015-11-06 18:59:29] jung1 : *was
[2015-11-06 18:59:51] jung1 : http://blog.ok coin.com/post/132659246694/warning-bitcoin-based-products-and-scams
[2015-11-06 19:00:09] jung1 : we are going backo to 250-300
[2015-11-06 19:04:40] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : BitMEX_Sam: Is it possible to unsubscribe from a websocket feed?
[2015-11-06 19:05:07] BitMEX_Sam : IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb: No, but I'm interested, what's your use case?
[2015-11-06 19:05:56] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : BitMEX_Sam: I'm interested in getting orderBook10 only once then updating with orderBook
[2015-11-06 19:06:07] BitMEX_Sam : IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb: Ah, use `getSymbol` instead
[2015-11-06 19:06:27] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : BitMEX_Sam: Ohh ok, thanks!
[2015-11-06 19:06:41] BitMEX_Sam : See https://www.bitmex.com/app/wsAPI#symbol-images
[2015-11-06 19:07:06] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : BitMEX_Sam: Is there a way to determine the depth of the orderbook if I wanted to get the whole thing right off the bat with the REST API?
[2015-11-06 19:07:08] BitMEX_Sam : Typical websocket flow is to subscribe, `getSymbol` or `getAccount` (or both), then start applying diffs after the images arrive
[2015-11-06 19:07:29] BitMEX_Sam : `getSymbol` is going to be a better option in almost every case
[2015-11-06 19:07:49] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : BitMEX_Sam: Ok. Thanks for your help! I didn't really understand get symbol before
[2015-11-06 19:08:14] BitMEX_Sam : The reason being that it is difficult to synchronize timestamps otherwise - if you use `getSymbol`, you're assured the messages come in order, so you'll have the right image of the book to start calculating deltas from
[2015-11-06 19:08:31] BitMEX_Sam : So ignore all deltas before the image returns, then start applying
[2015-11-06 19:09:25] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : BitMEX_Sam: Got it. Thanks!
[2015-11-06 19:10:53] TschavaTschigger : BitMEX_Sam: how many people work at bitmex? "about us" says 3, but who is wally then?
[2015-11-06 19:11:17] BitMEX_Sam : Wally is a very private person, so we don't talk about his background
[2015-11-06 19:11:28] BitMEX_Sam : But we have 6 now and some more incoming
[2015-11-06 19:11:39] BitMEX_Sam : There are three original partners.
[2015-11-06 19:12:06] habibi : dump we go
[2015-11-06 19:12:50] TschavaTschigger : i almost wrote my master thesis about cryptocurrency derivatives lol
[2015-11-06 19:13:03] zanza : can the BitMEX bot be used on windows?
[2015-11-06 19:13:06] TschavaTschigger : but then switched to social media sentiment analysis
[2015-11-06 19:13:25] sleger : zanza: no it does not clean windows, it only trades btc futures sorry
[2015-11-06 19:13:33] zanza : :o
[2015-11-06 19:13:48] SnackyCoins : lol
[2015-11-06 19:13:50] zanza : *punches computer*
[2015-11-06 19:14:07] SnackyCoins : yes zanza but you will need to download and install python
[2015-11-06 19:14:15] zanza : roger
[2015-11-06 19:14:20] wurstgelee : tfw your sessions expires during a dump
[2015-11-06 19:14:46] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah it will work just fine on Python 2 or Python 3 on Windows
[2015-11-06 19:15:08] BitMEX_Sam : At least, it should, so long as there are no pathing issues. If it refused to start please let me know and I'll fix it
[2015-11-06 19:15:12] zanza : is it command line bot or graphical UI?
[2015-11-06 19:15:15] BitMEX_Sam : CLI
[2015-11-06 19:15:46] mikeh : so damn annoyed, was short at 400 but pulled it
[2015-11-06 19:16:16] BitMEX_Sam : Maybe someday we'll rewrite and turn it into a serious curses/blessed app based on https://github.com/Yomguithereal/react-blessed/
[2015-11-06 19:17:33] micmix : BitMEX_Sam: Any ETA on the replace order API function?
[2015-11-06 19:17:40] BitMEX_Sam : micmix: Not yet
[2015-11-06 19:19:50] wurstgelee : xbt7d daily orders stll 385
[2015-11-06 19:19:55] wurstgelee : *still
[2015-11-06 19:20:26] wurstgelee : lol. gone
[2015-11-06 19:21:17] micmix : BitMEX_Sam: ok, will use cancel/submit for now. The problem is drops in liquidity like you have with the main MM bot right now: it cancels orders, waits for confirmation, submits new orders. So you have couple hundreds milliseconds every few seconds when liquidity is very low.
[2015-11-06 19:24:22] sleger : micmix: what size will you quote ?
[2015-11-06 19:26:12] micmix : sleger: that's not for me to decide, I'm just a systems guy :-)
[2015-11-06 19:29:56] sleger : just pretend that the min size here is 10k contracts :)
[2015-11-06 19:30:06] sleger : they wont read the specs ;)
[2015-11-06 19:33:26] dynamike23 : trading range is really narrow
[2015-11-06 19:39:52] habibi : dump we go
[2015-11-06 19:40:45] hashman : if i put in a withdrawl request now, when will it get processeD?
[2015-11-06 19:41:30] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : That buy on OKCoin
[2015-11-06 19:43:14] dorothy490 : much liquidity..such walls
[2015-11-06 19:44:32] habibi : IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb: sb probally closed short at market
[2015-11-06 19:45:41] calamar182 : If I buy spot and sell XBU near the expiry i get risk free profit???
[2015-11-06 19:46:52] sleger : how do you know what the price of XBU will be near the expiry ?
[2015-11-06 19:47:12] TschavaTschigger : hey does, anybody else having problems with the bitfinex API last 10 minutes?
[2015-11-06 19:48:00] sleger : no, working fine here
[2015-11-06 19:48:03] calamar182 : because near expiry the futures always try to get spot price
[2015-11-06 19:48:32] sleger : so if you sell near the expiry then you will sell at the price of spot, so why would you make any profit ?
[2015-11-06 19:49:00] sleger : let's take a small step back : 1 + 1 = ?
[2015-11-06 19:49:08] calamar182 : because now XBU is at a higher price than spot
[2015-11-06 19:49:25] sleger : you said "sell near the expiry" so what you meant is sell now
[2015-11-06 19:49:30] calamar182 : and a few days before expiry XBU will try to get spot price
[2015-11-06 19:49:35] sleger : now is not the expiry
[2015-11-06 19:49:51] sleger : (the answer was 2 by the way)
[2015-11-06 19:49:54] SnackyCoins : we just started a new week 8)
[2015-11-06 19:50:13] calamar182 : buy spot and sell XBU wait until december and close contracts
[2015-11-06 19:50:33] sleger : ah that's not what you said at all at the beginning !! Words matter
[2015-11-06 19:50:40] calamar182 : jeje yes
[2015-11-06 19:50:48] sleger : then you should profit, is it risk free, not really
[2015-11-06 19:51:24] calamar182 : I think is better to try to do arbitrage between excahnge and sell margin to conver exposure
[2015-11-06 19:51:37] sleger : that is absolutely not risk free though
[2015-11-06 19:52:02] calamar182 : what is not? the XBU?
[2015-11-06 19:52:15] calamar182 : my theory you mean?
[2015-11-06 19:52:33] sleger : both xbu or arbitrage btw exchanges, none are risk free
[2015-11-06 19:53:18] Rizky : think you're looking at XBU last price
[2015-11-06 19:53:23] Rizky : and not where you can actually trade
[2015-11-06 19:53:45] Rizky : bid is 350...
[2015-11-06 19:53:54] BitMEX_Sam : hashman: See the withdrawal page: `Withdrawals must be submitted by 13:00 UTC (in 17 hours) to be included in the day's batch.`
[2015-11-06 19:53:56] calamar182 : yes i see him
[2015-11-06 19:54:14] hashman : thanks sam
[2015-11-06 19:54:40] calamar182 : bid price is 373 but bifinex spot is 368
[2015-11-06 19:54:47] dorothy490 : BitMEX_Sam: can you share information in relative numbers how much deposits increased since last 2 weeks?
[2015-11-06 19:54:48] calamar182 : there's an arbitrage
[2015-11-06 19:54:52] hashman : so the wtihdrawls are process after 13:00 UTC ? - what time does it actually get sent?
[2015-11-06 19:55:02] hashman : right after that or there is still some time?
[2015-11-06 19:55:47] BitMEX_Sam : hashman: It's shortly thereafter, it takes us a bit of time to do the signing but they're usually on the blockchain in a half hour
[2015-11-06 19:56:03] BitMEX_Sam : dorothy490: Let me take a quick look
[2015-11-06 19:56:22] calamar182 : Mr sam what do you advise to arbitrage here?
[2015-11-06 19:56:31] BitMEX_Sam : calamar182: I don't usually get into the business of advising trades :)
[2015-11-06 19:56:53] BitMEX_Sam : All I can say is, there are times when different contracts overlap expiry times, or nearly so, and there may be opportunities there
[2015-11-06 19:57:21] calamar182 : ok got it
[2015-11-06 19:59:11] hashman : thanks sa
[2015-11-06 19:59:14] hashman : sam