This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

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[2016-10-31 05:10:20] coinrun : When is bitmex going to price mark Polo?
[2016-10-31 05:10:34] sabbybibi : miramm1115: yeah, that's what i thought
[2016-10-31 05:18:18] Chronuslll : whats the avaerage margin you use?
[2016-10-31 05:22:38] sabbybibi : Chronuslll: (on zec which is v. risky) about 1.0x (shorting)
[2016-10-31 05:25:01] sabbybibi : ...actually, i thunk the main thing making ZEC so illiquid on bitmex is the units of 1 zec each, which used to be small but is now huge
[2016-10-31 05:25:19] sabbybibi : if we could change to milliZEC we'd have a much more lively market!
[2016-10-31 05:25:54] Chronuslll : hmm what about xbt
[2016-10-31 05:26:05] sabbybibi : (or just change from integers to real numbers)
[2016-10-31 05:26:54] sabbybibi : well, the btc/usd market is listed in usd even though it's all really made of btc
[2016-10-31 05:27:06] sabbybibi : so the integer arithmetic doesn't really cause problems
[2016-10-31 05:27:33] sabbybibi : but the btc<->zec market, wow, integers are hopelessly coarse grained whether listed in btc or zec!
[2016-10-31 05:27:53] sabbybibi : roll on milliZEC please bitmex!!!
[2016-10-31 05:28:08] DangerandPlay : i had really high hopes for mining zcash and bought some rigs... getting about 200 sols/hour now and mining a pitiful amount. Just give in????
[2016-10-31 05:28:18] DangerandPlay : 200 sols/sec
[2016-10-31 05:29:30] sabbybibi : DangerandPlay: 200 sols/sec is about a ten-thousandth of the entire network, so you should earn about 0.05zec/day
[2016-10-31 05:29:56] sabbybibi : that's tens of dollars a day, if you're earning less than that something is misconfigured!
[2016-10-31 05:30:03] sabbybibi : (hardware and/or software)
[2016-10-31 05:30:14] DangerandPlay : we're making that but still seems pathetic.............
[2016-10-31 05:30:27] DangerandPlay : pathetic considering the outlay and electricity costs
[2016-10-31 05:30:56] arbitrage001 : sabbybibi: what is the production cost for zcash using efficient method?
[2016-10-31 05:31:22] sabbybibi : DangerandPlay: what's your wattage??
[2016-10-31 05:31:23] arbitrage001 : Return of investment on mining so to speak
[2016-10-31 05:32:06] sabbybibi : arbitrage001: 1 "sol" costs about 5-10 joules (a few millionths of a "unit"[kWh] of retail electricity bill jargon terms)
[2016-10-31 05:32:31] arbitrage001 : sabbybibi: in dollar term?
[2016-10-31 05:32:56] sabbybibi : so at the moment, everybody should be making several hundred percent profit - not yet competed away by difficulty rises!
[2016-10-31 05:33:01] arbitrage001 : what is the break even point on zcash price, i mean
[2016-10-31 05:33:15] arbitrage001 : i see
[2016-10-31 05:33:23] arbitrage001 : miner profiting a lot now?
[2016-10-31 05:33:31] sabbybibi : (in dollar terms depends on your electricity company but a few times 10-to-the-minus-7 dollars per "sol" would be typical)
[2016-10-31 05:34:21] sabbybibi : (i'm ignoring capital costs ads many people already have the graphics cards, either for game-playing or ethereum mining...)
[2016-10-31 05:34:22] arbitrage001 : someone was mentioning zcash has to stay above 0.5 for miner to be profit
[2016-10-31 05:34:35] arbitrage001 : is this the same fig you have?
[2016-10-31 05:35:10] sabbybibi : arbitrage001: i think they must be including capital costs of cards, but of course you DON'T include that when deciding "do i switch my rig ON or OFF?"
[2016-10-31 05:35:54] arbitrage001 : sabbybibi: well, miners have been losing money since bitcoin asic came out
[2016-10-31 05:36:10] sabbybibi : arbitrage001: i'm not mining at all, just interested in the economics so i've recently been doing a lot of detailed calculations (to try and predict difficulty vs.price, that sort of thing)
[2016-10-31 05:37:00] sabbybibi : arbitrage001: yeah in the long run many people will lose... but right now, too few people have joined in to "compete away" the profits!
[2016-10-31 05:37:10] sabbybibi : (on zec i mean - not on btc lol)
[2016-10-31 05:37:28] arbitrage001 : the price you see here on zcash
[2016-10-31 05:37:40] arbitrage001 : is it too high or too low from miner view?
[2016-10-31 05:37:46] sabbybibi : no no the price *here* is a dec.30th prediction
[2016-10-31 05:38:03] arbitrage001 : would you continue mining at this price?
[2016-10-31 05:38:10] sabbybibi : the *current* price (on say polo) is still very good for miners' profitability!
[2016-10-31 05:38:35] arbitrage001 : assuming capital cost is zero?
[2016-10-31 05:38:52] sabbybibi : arbitrage001: but speaking of the dec.30th predicted price - the current prediction of 0.288 is UTTERLY BIZARRE
[2016-10-31 05:39:06] arbitrage001 : sabbybibi: in which way?
[2016-10-31 05:39:10] arbitrage001 : too high still?
[2016-10-31 05:39:47] sabbybibi : if it was REALLY TRUE that zec = 0.288 btc in late december........ then the real resource (electricity etc) usage of ZEC would EQUAL THE WHOLE OF BITCOIN'S!!!
[2016-10-31 05:40:09] arbitrage001 : i see
[2016-10-31 05:40:09] sabbybibi : i can't honestly see that happening by late december, or maybe ever!
[2016-10-31 05:40:29] sabbybibi : a tenth the current prediction would be more reasonable in my opinion
[2016-10-31 05:40:51] sabbybibi : so, i'm shorting - but the order book is so thin, i may be liquidated in a temporary reversal!
[2016-10-31 05:41:04] sabbybibi : (or by being wrong even at dec.30th of course lol)
[2016-10-31 05:41:34] arbitrage001 : so people buying at this price is stupid?
[2016-10-31 05:42:04] jose : not if you think you can resell it before it goes to oblivion
[2016-10-31 05:42:11] sabbybibi : well, i never like to call any of my fellow traders stupid - let's just say we have a difference of opinion :D
[2016-10-31 05:43:29] sabbybibi : jose: yeah i could keep reselling but it drains my precious btc to keep doing that on every upswing
[2016-10-31 05:43:57] sabbybibi : i think the swings would be less if we had millizec as trading integer unit rather than zec! zec is just too huge and chunky now!
[2016-10-31 05:44:20] sabbybibi : millizec would give a more liquid, lively market! how abnout it bitmex?!
[2016-10-31 05:44:38] arbitrage001 : sabbybibi: you can sell on polo as you get the coin
[2016-10-31 05:44:45] arbitrage001 : much higher price anyway
[2016-10-31 05:45:42] sabbybibi : arbitrage001: i'm not handling physical zec at all, i haven't even downloaded the linux software yet - i'm just trading the future here on mex
[2016-10-31 05:46:34] arbitrage001 : i see
[2016-10-31 05:46:39] sabbybibi : i do intend to handle some physical zec, practice its mixing tech, get to know its usage - but not yet!
[2016-10-31 05:46:44] arbitrage001 : thought you are currently mining
[2016-10-31 05:47:07] arbitrage001 : was a miner myself
[2016-10-31 05:47:19] arbitrage001 : a great waste of time in my opinion
[2016-10-31 05:47:27] sabbybibi : arbitrage001: no, i'm a "cold-liking", "heat-hating" person, and i wouldn't want a lot of mining gear where i live!
[2016-10-31 05:47:29] arbitrage001 : too much hassle and reward is too little
[2016-10-31 05:47:51] jose : ZEC is not mixing, there is nothing to mix, because you dont see anything. It is just a blackbox
[2016-10-31 05:47:59] sabbybibi : arbitrage001: what did you mine? btc with asic? eth with gpu?
[2016-10-31 05:48:12] arbitrage001 : btc and litecoin
[2016-10-31 05:48:20] arbitrage001 : before all the alt coin booms
[2016-10-31 05:48:35] arbitrage001 : so went thru a few boom bust cycle here
[2016-10-31 05:48:52] sabbybibi : jose: yeah what i mean is do some btc->zec->btc, e.g. thru shapeshift, and study both blockchains too judge quality of anonymity against timing analysis etc etc...
[2016-10-31 05:49:35] sabbybibi : jose: that's what i intend to do, but so far i'm not handling real zec at all - just bitmex futures!
[2016-10-31 05:49:37] shiroe : zec, easiest money so far
[2016-10-31 05:50:02] Anon39 : yeah
[2016-10-31 05:50:06] arbitrage001 : shiroe: are you short? close the position yet?
[2016-10-31 05:50:15] sabbybibi : arbitrage001: oh wow you were an early miner! i hope you kept a lot of your coins.....
[2016-10-31 05:50:28] arbitrage001 : profit is only real if you close your position
[2016-10-31 05:50:39] arbitrage001 : paper profit is pretty meaningless
[2016-10-31 05:51:20] Anon39 : i think 0.3 is a good short entry point
[2016-10-31 05:51:24] shiroe : arbitrage001: someone sold on my buy order from 4. 0.4 to 7, then 4 to 0.23
[2016-10-31 05:51:49] shiroe : lucky for those who shorted at 10. woo
[2016-10-31 05:52:16] arbitrage001 : sabbybibi: most early miners lose money
[2016-10-31 05:52:32] sabbybibi : arbitrage001: oh well :(
[2016-10-31 05:52:46] arbitrage001 : sabbybibi: only horders who buy from market benefit
[2016-10-31 05:53:54] sabbybibi : actually in zec's case even holders may not benefit, cos if the main usage is btc->zec->btc mixing, then the amount (held by people partway thru doing that) will be roughly constant in say dollar terms, but the number of zec remorselessly increases
[2016-10-31 05:54:49] sabbybibi : (people doing mixing don't mind a falling trend - to them it's just another mixing fee - but hodlers of course don't want a falling trend!)
[2016-10-31 05:55:26] Anon39 : obv zec holder are losing money, supply il 1k coin and is going to be 200k coin in 2 month
[2016-10-31 05:55:32] Anon39 : is*
[2016-10-31 05:56:33] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 600 @ 695.58
[2016-10-31 05:57:52] Anon39 : btw i cant understand who went long @10 btc on zec
[2016-10-31 05:58:02] Anon39 : when 10 btc is the bitmex cap
[2016-10-31 05:59:23] arbitrage001 : Anon39: could be panic shorter
[2016-10-31 05:59:37] arbitrage001 : who want to close position at all cost
[2016-10-31 06:03:01] chromaticcr1 : Anon39: rapid coming back to the chatroom in 3... 2... 1...
[2016-10-31 06:03:17] arbitrage001 : chromaticcr1: he doesnt need sleep?
[2016-10-31 06:03:30] arbitrage001 : over leverage syndrome? lol
[2016-10-31 06:03:44] chromaticcr1 : I guess he will be awake whenever things about the cap is mentioned
[2016-10-31 06:03:56] arbitrage001 : cap cap
[2016-10-31 06:03:57] arbitrage001 : cap
[2016-10-31 06:04:06] arbitrage001 : is he long or short
[2016-10-31 06:04:12] lockhedge : sabbybibi: fully agree, but high transaction costs (fees, spread, volatility) as a direct result of low supply/liquidity will make zcash a very expensive btc->zec->btc mixing service. so even that use case will be limited.
[2016-10-31 06:04:15] chromaticcr1 : long @3BTC
[2016-10-31 06:04:22] chromaticcr1 : and he is still holding it...
[2016-10-31 06:04:23] arbitrage001 : chromaticcr1: lol
[2016-10-31 06:04:34] arbitrage001 : i dont think he will make it back
[2016-10-31 06:04:39] chromaticcr1 : have a look at the archive ;)
[2016-10-31 06:05:15] chromaticcr1 : not even spot could go back up >1
[2016-10-31 06:05:29] arbitrage001 : he went all in ?
[2016-10-31 06:05:31] arbitrage001 : show hand?
[2016-10-31 06:05:40] chromaticcr1 : prob not.. not sure
[2016-10-31 06:06:08] sabbybibi : lockhedge: well... what i'm getting at is: the *technical* quality of the mixing is far higher than with xmr, coinjoin, etc etc - it ought to be essentially perfect so long as you don't try and do it absurdly quickly - so, some people may be willing to pay higher costs for higher quality
[2016-10-31 06:06:08] Anon39 : chromaticcr1: are you talking about zec long@3 btc?
[2016-10-31 06:06:18] arbitrage001 : miners here alrealdy mention 0.3 is good short
[2016-10-31 06:16:06] aethlios : btc strong above 700
[2016-10-31 06:16:24] aethlios : a rally to test 800 soon this week
[2016-10-31 06:25:14] lockhedge : sabbybibi: the technical quality is great, but pretty worthless without liquidity. if it is not broadly adopted and would be mainly used as high cost/quality mixing service, touching zec actually means flagging your funds as "i'm a money launderer".
[2016-10-31 06:26:16] sabbybibi : well yeah - i consider myself part of the, uh, PML/DKYC research community :D
[2016-10-31 06:27:56] sabbybibi : ideally i'd like bitcoin itself to grow an opaque sector (i.e. in effect become another zcash) - then we;d have a really liquid, highly-traded, fungible money... fungible meaning every transaction is ipso facto a laundering transaction! no such thing as money-NON-laundering any more!
[2016-10-31 06:37:13] sabbybibi : lockhedge: actually an interesting future cryptocurrency (still vaporware right now) is "Hawk" - it'll have zero-knowledge *smart contracts* - it'll boost ethereum's capabilities the way zcash boosts bitcoin's!
[2016-10-31 06:37:48] sabbybibi : lockhedge: exciting times huh? :)
[2016-10-31 06:38:57] sabbybibi : lockhedge: anyway logging off now... but google hawk crypto if you want a real mind-trip :D
[2016-10-31 06:42:34] aethlios : wait zcash to rally again 3 months before halving
[2016-10-31 06:42:51] aethlios : so in 45 months
[2016-10-31 06:45:00] miramm1115 : Hey lockhedge! Do you know exactly how LastPriceProtected marking works?
[2016-10-31 06:49:38] lockhedge : miramm1115: not exactly, don't know what is meant by "previously-calculated Mark Price" https://blog.bitmex.com/site_announcement/a-note-on-xbj-price-anomalies/
[2016-10-31 06:52:54] miramm1115 : lockhedge: thanks, I think I get it.
[2016-10-31 06:53:42] miramm1115 : I remember reading description but forgot it was in the announcement, thanks
[2016-10-31 06:54:06] lockhedge : miramm1115: how often is the mark price calculated?
[2016-10-31 06:54:57] miramm1115 : lockhedge: looks like it's updated on each trade
[2016-10-31 07:12:27] aethlios : zec 853 volume polo, I guess we are 2 or 3 days away from market to index
[2016-10-31 07:16:43] cryptowolf : hello
[2016-10-31 07:24:19] chromaticcr1 : aethlios: rapid's dream come true, except when the basis adjusted price is even lower than what we have on last price now
[2016-10-31 07:31:48] lockhedge : chromaticcr1: the basis is normally calculated using the impact mid price. i never understood why he thought that it will change a lot
[2016-10-31 07:59:25] sally : so basically when bitmex decide to do this, they buy up on insider info and then profit?
[2016-10-31 08:06:07] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBJ7D`: Buy 500 @ 74398
[2016-10-31 08:42:42] NL007 : hi
[2016-10-31 08:43:46] sally : so now the zec contract is a speculation of when they will do this? LOL
[2016-10-31 08:44:09] rapidtrades : pretty much
[2016-10-31 08:44:16] Tetsuo : pump failed
[2016-10-31 08:45:14] rapidtrades : 24hr Volume: 809.46402860 BTC / 818.61440704 ZEC
[2016-10-31 08:45:27] rapidtrades : volume per BTC keeps going down
[2016-10-31 08:45:56] NL007 : 1276 ZEC mined
[2016-10-31 08:46:43] rapidtrades : it's now down to 5th on polo
[2016-10-31 08:47:24] NL007 : we could see small pumps 10-20% and fall back
[2016-10-31 08:47:47] rapidtrades : yeah good luck woth that
[2016-10-31 08:48:01] y1uy : Is anyone having issues with bitmex positions? I keep on receiving the wrong profits.. sold zcash at 260, was suppose to get .17 profit, only got .11.. ?
[2016-10-31 08:48:23] NL007 : problem with zec is that a sell of 10-15 zec crashes pump
[2016-10-31 08:48:33] y1uy : It was 2zec
[2016-10-31 08:48:43] y1uy : and it was close price, not mark
[2016-10-31 08:49:09] Boontjie : y1uy: look at trade history
[2016-10-31 08:50:43] NL007 : i think many got REKT by the btc small crash
[2016-10-31 08:52:46] rapidtrades : i think i need to go back to bed
[2016-10-31 08:53:05] NL007 : rapidtrades: ok
[2016-10-31 09:07:28] BitMEX_Jinming : y1uy: Please let us know what question you have. You can send details to support@bitmex.com
[2016-10-31 09:19:13] kradiav : haha someone tries to block ZEC dying
[2016-10-31 09:21:59] wurstgelee : here?
[2016-10-31 09:22:09] wurstgelee : or polo?
[2016-10-31 09:25:26] aethlios : do you know where i can see the segregated witness miners acceptance %??
[2016-10-31 09:27:02] habibi : https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/
[2016-10-31 09:31:24] aethlios : habibi: so core needs 95% of all nodes to be implemented??
[2016-10-31 09:34:11] wurstgelee : yep
[2016-10-31 09:34:25] wurstgelee : 95% needed for activation/consensus
[2016-10-31 09:35:44] public username 321 : don't get trapped in those zec shorts
[2016-10-31 09:37:08] aethlios : wurstgelee: 95% of mines to run core Latest version: 0.13.1??
[2016-10-31 09:37:39] wurstgelee : *nodes not moiners, but yes
[2016-10-31 09:37:45] wurstgelee : *miners
[2016-10-31 09:38:05] wurstgelee : i have a node running on some rpi and i am no miner
[2016-10-31 09:38:11] wurstgelee : but my vote counts too ;)
[2016-10-31 09:39:23] wurstgelee : also lol @ zec
[2016-10-31 09:39:28] wurstgelee : shorters bailing? ;)
[2016-10-31 09:39:43] REKT : Liquidated short on `ZECZ16`: Buy 1 @ 0.361250
[2016-10-31 09:39:43] REKT : Liquidated short on `ZECZ16`: Buy 1 @ 0.362306
[2016-10-31 09:39:47] wurstgelee : hihi
[2016-10-31 09:40:55] aethlios : wurstgelee: so you support segregated witness?
[2016-10-31 09:41:04] wurstgelee : yep
[2016-10-31 09:41:30] aethlios : wurstgelee: and this lighting network will come after that in the future??
[2016-10-31 09:42:23] wurstgelee : thats the plan
[2016-10-31 09:42:26] wurstgelee : =)
[2016-10-31 09:42:31] sally : here come the zec short squeezes
[2016-10-31 09:42:36] aethlios : I don't have tech background and appreciate the discoussion.
[2016-10-31 09:43:04] aethlios : wurstgelee: send me your address to tip you!!
[2016-10-31 09:43:28] wurstgelee : aethlios: thanks, but really not necessary. ;)
[2016-10-31 09:44:12] lopol : So is zec mark price tied to poloniex price at all?
[2016-10-31 09:44:27] aethlios : wurstgelee: aren't you who told me to withdraw the order to 0.2 for zcash?
[2016-10-31 09:44:33] wurstgelee : lopol: not yet
[2016-10-31 09:44:36] wurstgelee : read latest annoucnement
[2016-10-31 09:44:40] wurstgelee : aethlios: yep
[2016-10-31 09:44:43] wurstgelee : that was me
[2016-10-31 09:44:47] wurstgelee : :D
[2016-10-31 09:44:57] aethlios : wurstgelee: send the address, you saved me money.
[2016-10-31 09:45:18] habibi : aethlios: aren't u the one who told us to go long @monero before it crashed?
[2016-10-31 09:45:57] wurstgelee : aethlios: haha, ok. i'll return the favor if the opposite happens. sec, ill give u an address with some fuckyou-btc in it ;)
[2016-10-31 09:45:58] aethlios : recoversd, can sell at the same price
[2016-10-31 09:46:07] laisee : Unrelible narrator strikes again
[2016-10-31 09:46:25] wurstgelee : aethlios: 1FuckUS9BiRJNbj9z8gp5xgJJ2Vf6Nr27t
[2016-10-31 09:46:40] wurstgelee : FuckYou-BTC=BTC for high risk gambles etc ;)
[2016-10-31 09:46:44] wurstgelee : oh lol
[2016-10-31 09:46:46] wurstgelee : stop
[2016-10-31 09:46:54] habibi : aethlios: no, it was at 0.09 to 0.1, u should make some refunds to folks here i guess
[2016-10-31 09:46:55] wurstgelee : bitmex censored my address
[2016-10-31 09:46:57] wurstgelee : rofl
[2016-10-31 09:47:14] wurstgelee : one sec
[2016-10-31 09:47:16] laisee : someine is about to get screwed
[2016-10-31 09:48:02] wurstgelee : aethlios: http://pastebin.com/7saknkUQ
[2016-10-31 09:48:41] habibi : wurstgelee: vanitygen always there! :)
[2016-10-31 09:48:43] aethlios : wurstgelee: ok it is valid.
[2016-10-31 09:49:04] wurstgelee : habibi: yep. had some xeons at work to play with ;)
[2016-10-31 09:49:04] dasdfasdf : nice vanity address
[2016-10-31 09:53:26] wurstgelee : aethlios: thank you sir, i'll reinvest wisely at once: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ron-Zacapa-Grand-Centenario-Rum/dp/B008VFIZRG
[2016-10-31 09:53:31] wurstgelee : ;)
[2016-10-31 10:01:06] wurstgelee : used 0.7 btc to mine 1.15 zec so far (nicehash, not even trying to get cheap orders)
[2016-10-31 10:01:29] wurstgelee : to whom it may concern ;)
[2016-10-31 10:02:04] aethlios : so we can arb.....
[2016-10-31 10:02:46] wurstgelee : yeah. also its easy money
[2016-10-31 10:03:14] wurstgelee : would probably have been possible for .5 per ZEC easily
[2016-10-31 10:03:30] wurstgelee : home rig owner for less than that
[2016-10-31 10:03:35] wurstgelee : selling pressure still is there for sure =)
[2016-10-31 10:10:19] wurstgelee : i am bored, going to throw some more btc @ hashes
[2016-10-31 10:11:04] aethlios : https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/zec is this legit?
[2016-10-31 10:11:39] aethlios : kSol/s is 1000 H/s ???
[2016-10-31 10:12:32] habibi : rather 1000 Sol/s
[2016-10-31 10:14:46] wurstgelee : yek
[2016-10-31 10:14:57] wurstgelee : 1kSol=1000Sols
[2016-10-31 10:15:22] DangerandPlay : (it's absolute bollocks. am mining myself and it's slow-going)
[2016-10-31 10:15:43] wurstgelee : DangerandPlay: ?
[2016-10-31 10:15:51] wurstgelee : could u elaborate?
[2016-10-31 10:16:16] aethlios : now 1 ksol is 0.115 on nice hash and pays 0.23 zcash, with 0.65 is 0.15, so around 30% profit
[2016-10-31 10:16:26] aethlios : if i am right.....
[2016-10-31 10:16:43] aethlios : http://www.coinwarz.com/ this i used
[2016-10-31 10:17:11] aethlios : nicehash has usa and europe, usa is cheaper
[2016-10-31 10:17:32] DangerandPlay : sorry, at work atm. can't say much but i will say that i am generating 200 sols/second and since saturday evening have only generated 0.0188 zcash.
[2016-10-31 10:17:44] DangerandPlay : maybe something's fucked on my side
[2016-10-31 10:17:46] DangerandPlay : :-/
[2016-10-31 10:18:12] wurstgelee : DangerandPlay: no. that seems correct. i had 15kSol for ~ 9 h to mine 1.15
[2016-10-31 10:18:28] DangerandPlay : hugely disappointing
[2016-10-31 10:18:51] DangerandPlay : my expectations were probably too high
[2016-10-31 10:19:09] DangerandPlay : switch my rigs to mining eth? :)
[2016-10-31 10:19:53] wurstgelee : i have no clue about mining profitabilty, i dont usually mine at all
[2016-10-31 10:20:05] wurstgelee : rented some hash @ nciehash for testing purposes
[2016-10-31 10:20:06] wurstgelee : thats all
[2016-10-31 10:26:49] REKT : Liquidated long on `ZECZ16`: Sell 1 @ 0.280501
[2016-10-31 10:26:49] REKT : Liquidated long on `ZECZ16`: Sell 1 @ 0.241572
[2016-10-31 10:29:26] wurstgelee : löl :)
[2016-10-31 10:29:55] kradiav : was expecting more :(
[2016-10-31 10:34:22] wurstgelee : dumping lower would be really dumb imo
[2016-10-31 10:35:38] public username 321 : lol, the spread on zec is big enough for a elephant to pass through
[2016-10-31 10:35:44] kradiav : not more down, just more liquidations
[2016-10-31 10:36:15] allyourbase : ZEC should be below 0.1 soon
[2016-10-31 10:38:10] wurstgelee : i am hashing away @ 100kSol/s now ;)
[2016-10-31 10:44:17] EA_FTW : Wow, that's 4% of the total network hashrate!
[2016-10-31 10:46:52] wurstgelee : thats how bored i am at work today
[2016-10-31 10:46:59] wurstgelee : 4% nethash bored
[2016-10-31 10:47:01] wurstgelee : ;)
[2016-10-31 11:06:33] EA_FTW : Nice, so the profitability is currently ~30%? Might give it a go. Have to hope that the price on Poloniex doesn't drop more than 30% during the life of the contract I guess (how long is yours?)
[2016-10-31 11:08:27] EA_FTW : Also have to wait until after 1pm to get my BTC out of here. Guess the arb opportunity might've gone by then..
[2016-10-31 11:09:35] wurstgelee : EA_FTW: dont know if i reach 30% but doesnt look like a loss unless it dumps a lot in the coming 2-3 hours
[2016-10-31 11:13:49] EA_FTW : Cool, surprised more people aren't doing this already (guess I should probably stop talking!)
[2016-10-31 11:14:44] wurstgelee : tehre comes a risk with it, thats probably why.
[2016-10-31 11:15:01] wurstgelee : takes a while from actual mining until the mined zec finally arrive @ some exchange
[2016-10-31 11:15:14] wurstgelee : especially with pool mining
[2016-10-31 11:15:25] wurstgelee : could easily dump in the meantime...
[2016-10-31 11:16:11] EA_FTW : Ah, ok, how long do the payouts take? Have you got any yet?
[2016-10-31 11:17:29] wurstgelee : just sold .9something ZEC @ polo
[2016-10-31 11:17:31] wurstgelee : few minutes ago
[2016-10-31 11:17:33] wurstgelee : ;)
[2016-10-31 11:19:11] EA_FTW : cool
[2016-10-31 11:30:35] DangerandPlay : is ETH going to go down over the next few days/weeks as mining diverted to Zcash? I have a short position open. i'm up 1 BTC.
[2016-10-31 11:35:03] kradiav : so comparing a dried up shit with a fresh shit :D
[2016-10-31 11:35:39] DangerandPlay : possibly
[2016-10-31 11:38:03] wurstgelee : depends a lot on what BTC is up to next imo
[2016-10-31 11:38:29] wurstgelee : i ahven't been touching ETH for quite a while now tho, so more or less out of the loop there
[2016-10-31 11:42:48] wurstgelee : mined 2 ZEC with 1.25 BTC so far
[2016-10-31 11:45:47] kumarz : wurstgelee: ooh, that's tight! You could easily be in the red if ZEC tanks below 0.63... Are u converting straight to BTC? exchange fees dilute the profit a bit, no?
[2016-10-31 11:46:23] wurstgelee : kumarz: yeah. it would be possible to mine cheaper tho. i guess at least 10-15% cheaper
[2016-10-31 11:46:38] wurstgelee : i took the lazy path and used 50% fixed orders for example
[2016-10-31 11:46:47] kumarz : On your own hardware huh @wurstgelee
[2016-10-31 11:46:53] kumarz : Ah I see
[2016-10-31 11:47:03] wurstgelee : nicehash
[2016-10-31 11:47:20] kumarz : Nah I mean cheaper @ own hardware
[2016-10-31 11:47:25] wurstgelee : even if i had own mining hardware, i wouldnt have enough for 100kSol i guess ;)
[2016-10-31 11:47:32] wurstgelee : kumarz: yes
[2016-10-31 11:47:33] kumarz : Lol tru
[2016-10-31 11:48:09] kumarz : Acc to coinwarz digicash x10 b has a better reward, but I think hardware use would be different
[2016-10-31 11:48:24] kumarz : Dunno if u can still use sols to the same advantage
[2016-10-31 11:48:28] wurstgelee : i dont usually mine, havent been doing it for at least a year.
[2016-10-31 11:48:38] wurstgelee : mining zcash was for experimental purposes
[2016-10-31 11:48:40] wurstgelee : ;)
[2016-10-31 11:49:07] wurstgelee : had no clue if and how profitable mininig is...now i know
[2016-10-31 11:49:25] kumarz : Me neither, always found it more profitable and simpler to just trade ... Each to their own eh :D @wurstgelee
[2016-10-31 11:49:40] wurstgelee : exactly. ;)
[2016-10-31 11:50:00] kumarz : wurstgelee: well it won't be for long, so only a little punt really, just like a cheeky trade hehe
[2016-10-31 11:50:32] wurstgelee : i plan to get over with it in 2-3 h
[2016-10-31 11:50:32] Gemz : at mod, can i cancel my withdrawal still? i did confirm the withdrawal tho
[2016-10-31 11:50:45] wurstgelee : yes.
[2016-10-31 11:50:50] wurstgelee : Gemz: you can
[2016-10-31 11:51:40] habibi : Account --> click on X next to withdraw
[2016-10-31 11:52:03] habibi : next to withdrawal details *
[2016-10-31 11:59:05] Gemz : habibi: i dont see withdraw details, my status says completed tho
[2016-10-31 12:00:03] Gemz : o wait already received them so cant cancel
[2016-10-31 12:00:23] BitMEX_Wally : Yes, we sometimes do an extra batch of withdrawals early in the day
[2016-10-31 12:01:05] BitMEX_Wally : We will do the next batch in about an hour
[2016-10-31 12:10:05] CapitalGains : Mod, I have a question regarding liquidations. With 1x leverage going long, you shouldn't be liquidated right, even if the price drops 90%, because your margin should cover 100%. Am I right?
[2016-10-31 12:12:23] BitMEX_Wally : CapitalGains: This is correct for linear futures like the altcoins yes
[2016-10-31 12:13:33] CapitalGains : Thanks. ZEC is linear, I presume?
[2016-10-31 12:17:33] BitMEX_Wally : Yes, it is just XBT and XBJ that are inverse
[2016-10-31 12:17:45] BitMEX_Wally : With those if you are 1x short you can never be liquidated
[2016-10-31 12:19:59] wurstgelee : you can? no?
[2016-10-31 12:20:02] wurstgelee : because of funding?
[2016-10-31 12:22:30] BitMEX_Wally : If you were 1x short XBTUSD and there was negative funding then theoretically it is possible
[2016-10-31 12:22:54] BitMEX_Wally : But if you are 1x short XBTZ16 or XBJ24H etc then you cannot be liquidated. Your liquidation price is infinity
[2016-10-31 12:26:22] sally : BitMEX_Wally: hey my question is if we mark to polo price here and if polo is 3 btc does that mean here is 3 btc?
[2016-10-31 12:27:55] chromaticcr1 : generally no, for rapidtrades yes
[2016-10-31 12:29:30] rasdasd : BitMEX_Wally: when is next btc withdrawal
[2016-10-31 12:30:52] chromaticcr1 : cutoff in 30 minutes
[2016-10-31 12:33:16] chromaticcr1 : there is a countdown next to "13:00 UTC" on the withdraw page
[2016-10-31 12:36:17] wurstgelee : can we dip to 3750 now please? preferably lower
[2016-10-31 12:36:18] wurstgelee : ;)
[2016-10-31 12:45:56] rapidtrades : i see retards here are still dumping the one true coin
[2016-10-31 12:46:47] rapidtrades : we're never gonna reach that 1000 zec volume at this rate...btc volume keeps dropping
[2016-10-31 12:47:07] mjones : bummer
[2016-10-31 12:47:21] mjones : but that just means running low on sellers and that pump we keep talking about will happen
[2016-10-31 12:47:23] rapidtrades : it was an unreasonably high bar but that's what u can expect from an exchange that put a f*cking cap on the prices
[2016-10-31 12:47:51] rapidtrades : 24hr Volume: 699.80301446 BTC / 793.46062797 ZEC
[2016-10-31 12:48:01] rapidtrades : it was over 3000 BTC on day1
[2016-10-31 12:50:31] CapitalGains : In a week's time there should be plenty more ZEC on the market - it's the ZEC slow start to mining to blame for the prices still being so high. And I think the volume on Polo is so low because the smart money is not involved at this price.
[2016-10-31 12:51:42] mjones : a lot more contracts open here and price hasnt moved.
[2016-10-31 12:52:36] rapidtrades : CapitalGains: mining doesn't matter, most of volume on exchange is done by speculators
[2016-10-31 12:52:56] rapidtrades : day1 we had over 3k volume in BTC even tho barely any coins were mined
[2016-10-31 12:53:34] rapidtrades : as time goes on ppl will lose more interest and volume will drop
[2016-10-31 12:53:42] CapitalGains : Yes but all the stupid money which bought in at 10 BTC + now belongs to the people who mined the first 100 ZEC that went to Polo.
[2016-10-31 12:54:20] rapidtrades : thank u for ur stupid opinion
[2016-10-31 12:56:37] messiaen8844 : rapid: what do you expect price to be on December for zec?
[2016-10-31 12:57:31] aethlios : below 0.05 on dec. 30
[2016-10-31 12:58:11] laisee : 0.88BTC
[2016-10-31 12:58:47] rapidtrades : messiaen8844: 0.8
[2016-10-31 12:59:23] rapidtrades : also whhy do u keep asking what will price be on dec30...who cares
[2016-10-31 12:59:33] rapidtrades : this isn't a fu*cking option, its a futures contract
[2016-10-31 12:59:45] messiaen8844 : that's about $200 million market cap
[2016-10-31 12:59:54] rapidtrades : sounds small tbh
[2016-10-31 12:59:59] rapidtrades : so 1.6 then
[2016-10-31 13:00:18] rapidtrades : this will be bigger then XMR at its height
[2016-10-31 13:00:52] messiaen8844 : might, question is, when?
[2016-10-31 13:01:06] wurstgelee : 13:58 - laisee: 0.88BTC
[2016-10-31 13:01:09] wurstgelee : not too off imo
[2016-10-31 13:01:11] wurstgelee : ;)
[2016-10-31 13:01:26] messiaen8844 : system seems bootstrap to
[2016-10-31 13:01:40] messiaen8844 : a) give incentive for miners to join first
[2016-10-31 13:01:48] messiaen8844 : b) investors to wait
[2016-10-31 13:02:05] rapidtrades : is everything working fine? pools said devs did some last min change to code so they couldn't mine
[2016-10-31 13:02:15] messiaen8844 : there is a few issues
[2016-10-31 13:02:22] messiaen8844 : confirming transactions
[2016-10-31 13:02:36] messiaen8844 : you can see pull request in github
[2016-10-31 13:02:40] messiaen8844 : for updated discussion
[2016-10-31 13:02:48] rapidtrades : no tnx
[2016-10-31 13:03:10] messiaen8844 : XMR taught us something about dark markets
[2016-10-31 13:03:16] messiaen8844 : it's more about speculation than real use case
[2016-10-31 13:03:37] rapidtrades : agree
[2016-10-31 13:03:55] rapidtrades : but the hype for this coin was much bigger...XMR came out of nowhere
[2016-10-31 13:04:08] messiaen8844 : XMR was a pump and dump, will go back to 0.002
[2016-10-31 13:04:13] messiaen8844 : 2 yaers of accumulation
[2016-10-31 13:04:23] rapidtrades : it still pumped tho
[2016-10-31 13:04:33] messiaen8844 : ZCASH might get a pump ina few months
[2016-10-31 13:04:36] wurstgelee : xmr didnt come out of nowhere. coordinate, well organized exit pump prior to zcash
[2016-10-31 13:04:38] messiaen8844 : unsure about it now
[2016-10-31 13:04:42] wurstgelee : *d
[2016-10-31 13:04:58] rapidtrades : wurstgelee: cmon...there was no hype about it
[2016-10-31 13:05:22] rapidtrades : we had a 'futures' for ZEC few months before launch, thats hype
[2016-10-31 13:05:34] wurstgelee : there was. hype ensued once whales had accumulated enough.... xmr addition to alphabay and co?
[2016-10-31 13:05:48] messiaen8844 : on the other hand, I hope bitmex keeps their promise about 1000 zec volume and mark price
[2016-10-31 13:06:11] rapidtrades : that rule implies a low ZEC price tho
[2016-10-31 13:06:16] wurstgelee : dont forget "healthy deposits and withdrawals"
[2016-10-31 13:06:21] messiaen8844 : but even with mark price market maker might just keep the current levels
[2016-10-31 13:06:27] wurstgelee : i can confirm deposits are healthy tho, i had some to polo :p
[2016-10-31 13:06:46] rapidtrades : wurstgelee: at the 24h notice we can activate plan fury2
[2016-10-31 13:06:51] rapidtrades : AKA pump to polo price
[2016-10-31 13:06:57] wurstgelee : ;)
[2016-10-31 13:07:27] rapidtrades : so when the mark happens, it will be on actual market price not 66% discount
[2016-10-31 13:09:26] wurstgelee : after all its still a future so with current overall sentiment,and given the reward schedule, it will probably still be way below mark. just not as much as now
[2016-10-31 13:09:38] wurstgelee : also spread getting smaller as time goes by oc...
[2016-10-31 13:09:40] wurstgelee : *ofc
[2016-10-31 13:09:45] rapidtrades : agree...this is redic
[2016-10-31 13:10:03] rapidtrades : only reason we're this low is shorts have a free put option
[2016-10-31 13:10:48] wurstgelee : mostly because general opinion is 0.1 or lower @ dec 30th
[2016-10-31 13:10:55] wurstgelee : at least according to twitter polls ;)
[2016-10-31 13:11:37] rapidtrades : maybe..but 've never seen a futures here trade so low
[2016-10-31 13:11:53] rapidtrades : and we've seen some harsh drops in ET, XMR etc
[2016-10-31 13:13:22] rapidtrades : wurstgelee: are u mining? how did u get ZEC
[2016-10-31 13:14:22] wurstgelee : rapidtrades: i decided to mine with 1 btc @ nicehash last night. mostly because i was bored and wanted to know how profitabilty is atm for average miners
[2016-10-31 13:14:37] rapidtrades : and?
[2016-10-31 13:14:39] wurstgelee : this went better than expected (30% profit)
[2016-10-31 13:14:46] wurstgelee : so i added another 2 btc
[2016-10-31 13:14:48] rapidtrades : nice
[2016-10-31 13:14:52] wurstgelee : i am ~ 5% nethash atm
[2016-10-31 13:15:07] rapidtrades : lol ur 5% of ZEC hash?
[2016-10-31 13:15:10] wurstgelee : yep
[2016-10-31 13:15:20] rapidtrades : dam with 3 btc?
[2016-10-31 13:15:25] wurstgelee : easily
[2016-10-31 13:15:28] rapidtrades : that's not very encouraging
[2016-10-31 13:15:40] wurstgelee : well.those 3 btc are used up in 6 or 7 hours tho
[2016-10-31 13:16:02] wurstgelee : thats quite fast
[2016-10-31 13:16:24] wurstgelee : also u have the risk of zec dumping since pools take hours to confirm ur mined coins
[2016-10-31 13:16:37] wurstgelee : several hours from actual mining the block to dumping those coins on polo
[2016-10-31 13:16:50] rapidtrades : so do i just buy some hash or does it require some tech knowledge
[2016-10-31 13:17:00] wurstgelee : no tech knowlege at all
[2016-10-31 13:17:08] wurstgelee : sec, i saw something on twitter that'll help explain
[2016-10-31 13:17:11] rapidtrades : it's on scrypt?
[2016-10-31 13:17:41] wurstgelee : rapidtrades: https://twitter.com/BTCKYLE/status/793010018505195520
[2016-10-31 13:17:46] wurstgelee : thats what i am doing
[2016-10-31 13:17:49] rapidtrades : tnx
[2016-10-31 13:17:50] wurstgelee : ZEC is equihash
[2016-10-31 13:17:52] wurstgelee : new algo
[2016-10-31 13:18:28] rapidtrades : at 30% it's worth iit to throw some play money at it...if it works out u can just reinvest
[2016-10-31 13:19:19] wurstgelee : still comes with some risk
[2016-10-31 13:19:31] wurstgelee : profitability seems to go down over last 2 hours
[2016-10-31 13:21:01] sally : its no longer profitable to mine zcash
[2016-10-31 13:22:47] rapidtrades : tnx for laying sally
[2016-10-31 13:24:14] rapidtrades : these mining contracts are prices weird...it seems cheapest to go with the smallest hash
[2016-10-31 13:24:48] sally : so many people have mining contracts
[2016-10-31 13:25:08] wurstgelee : sally: cloud mining isnt profitable, thats more than obvious
[2016-10-31 13:25:17] wurstgelee : people who bought those are screwed
[2016-10-31 13:25:36] wurstgelee : reg rentals or direct hash rentals like nicehash.com still are profitable to some extend
[2016-10-31 13:25:52] rapidtrades : sausage makes a good point sally
[2016-10-31 13:27:02] wurstgelee : *rig not reg ofc
[2016-10-31 13:34:58] wurstgelee : hash prices are 10-20% higher than 12h ago
[2016-10-31 13:35:21] Smartass : hi wurstgelee do you knwo what the deal is with hidden orders how that works?
[2016-10-31 13:35:33] sally : there is so much hash on it right now
[2016-10-31 13:35:39] Smartass : hope that you are not long anymore in Zec
[2016-10-31 13:35:54] sally : poor eth and etc lost so much mining too it
[2016-10-31 13:36:56] wurstgelee : someone opening a big short
[2016-10-31 13:37:10] wurstgelee : or closing a long...
[2016-10-31 13:37:13] wurstgelee : @ xbtusd
[2016-10-31 13:37:15] Smartass : haha no really not
[2016-10-31 13:37:43] wurstgelee : yeah, thought it was a bigger order tbh
[2016-10-31 13:37:43] Smartass : oh i thought you meant me because of the question about the hidden order..
[2016-10-31 13:37:47] wurstgelee : ;)
[2016-10-31 13:37:58] wurstgelee : that hidden @ 697.1
[2016-10-31 13:38:14] Smartass : so you know how those orders work? Tell me..
[2016-10-31 13:38:21] Smartass : all about it...
[2016-10-31 13:38:42] lopol : any information when zec mark price is tied to poloniex?
[2016-10-31 13:38:59] lopol : before that massive short squeeze is too risky option
[2016-10-31 13:39:43] Smartass : lopol: well it will be long time from now...
[2016-10-31 13:40:00] Smartass : Volume on Poloni is Faktor 7 away from requirement
[2016-10-31 13:40:24] lopol : what is requirement?
[2016-10-31 13:40:36] numero : need to be wary of plan fury2 as well
[2016-10-31 13:40:43] Smartass : 1000 Zec /day
[2016-10-31 13:43:20] BitMEX_Wally : https://blog.bitmex.com/site_announcement/note-on-zec-price-cap/
[2016-10-31 13:45:24] messiaen8844 : GDAX has enabled etc withdrwas lol
[2016-10-31 13:45:58] sally : BitMEX_Wally: so we are over the 1000zec trading now, does that mean it comes into effect?
[2016-10-31 13:46:59] BitMEX_Wally : According to Poloniex: 24hr Volume: 681.89128711 BTC / 793.71141598 ZEC
[2016-10-31 13:48:35] lopol : ZEC supply increases significantly following week so propably volume will be over 1000 ZEC after this week
[2016-10-31 13:48:58] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 4 @ 700.49 :punch: :whale:
[2016-10-31 13:49:01] TwinnerD : BitMEX_Wally: but you said that it should involve healthy deposits and withdrawals. That is not the case
[2016-10-31 13:49:04] sleger : only 3 coins on polo have volume > 1000
[2016-10-31 13:50:24] BitMEX_Wally : We are monitoring things and once we make a decision will announce
[2016-10-31 13:51:10] kradiav : BitMEX_Wally: with a day's warning, right?
[2016-10-31 13:51:35] TwinnerD : BitMEX_Wally: just make sure to consider the deposit/withdrawal situtation and not only the volume
[2016-10-31 13:51:47] TwinnerD : because if I trade 10 ZEC 100 times back and forth, thats 1000 zec volume too
[2016-10-31 13:51:55] sally : BitMEX_Wally: you guys said 1000 zec daily volume not 1000 zec volume on polo
[2016-10-31 13:52:08] sally : make up your fucking minds
[2016-10-31 13:52:30] rapidtrades : right sally is
[2016-10-31 13:53:04] rapidtrades : doesn't say polo on ur announcement
[2016-10-31 13:53:31] BitMEX_Wally : Yes we will give 24 hours notice
[2016-10-31 13:53:33] sally : get your shit together or your gonna destroy your reputation for good
[2016-10-31 13:53:33] rapidtrades : also u said we're moving to index
[2016-10-31 13:53:39] TwinnerD : read again, they said "to A (as in singular) exchange
[2016-10-31 13:53:57] sally : TwinnerD: they dont even know what they meant
[2016-10-31 13:53:58] rapidtrades : what other sites will be inc? so we monitor the volume
[2016-10-31 13:54:31] sally : rapidtrades: coinmarketcap its already well over 1000
[2016-10-31 13:55:07] BitMEX_Wally : These are necessary but not sufficient conditions, the decision is at our discretion
[2016-10-31 13:55:50] sally : BitMEX_Wally: this aint a game mate. These are contracts ffs and we are trading with real money
[2016-10-31 13:57:31] sally : if any of my accounts suffer for your incompetence I will sure seek recourse
[2016-10-31 13:57:49] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Wally: this is a f joke....do we really need to clear ur orderbook to prove how stupid this marking is
[2016-10-31 13:58:02] BitMEX_Wally : How is the last price marking negatively affecting you at the moment? Even if we switch to using Poloniex there will be a -300% basis rate so the mark price will not change
[2016-10-31 13:58:30] sleger : sally: why do you have multiple accounts ?
[2016-10-31 13:58:54] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Wally: not if we push price up first
[2016-10-31 13:59:04] BitMEX_Wally : Go on then, push it up
[2016-10-31 13:59:18] rapidtrades : only reason we're at 66% discoount is cos u capped us at 10
[2016-10-31 13:59:24] BitMEX_Wally : Really?
[2016-10-31 13:59:26] chromaticcr1 : BitMEX_Wally: make it your investment
[2016-10-31 13:59:37] chromaticcr1 : i mean @rapidtrades
[2016-10-31 13:59:38] BitMEX_Wally : The future price is 0.26 because it is capped at 10.00 ?
[2016-10-31 13:59:39] laisee : pls buy lots :-)
[2016-10-31 13:59:51] kradiav : rapidtrades: it's a future with 2 months to go... of course it's at what it is right now
[2016-10-31 13:59:59] rapidtrades : kradiav: idiot
[2016-10-31 14:00:03] EA_FTW : wurstgelee: just putting an order on at nicehash and the site goes down. Great.
[2016-10-31 14:00:17] kradiav : rapidtrades: butthurt
[2016-10-31 14:01:01] chromaticcr1 : i wonder how many idiots are here to stupid enough to be your counterparty, at 3BTC/ZECZ16 contract.
[2016-10-31 14:01:29] chromaticcr1 : greater fools, you'll be the greatest.
[2016-10-31 14:02:00] laisee : I'll buy that for a $
[2016-10-31 14:02:01] sally : futures capped at 10btc was no "error" or "bug"
[2016-10-31 14:02:17] chromaticcr1 : or in developer's term, "feature"
[2016-10-31 14:02:48] rapidtrades : its pointless to argue with ppl who hardcoded a price cap
[2016-10-31 14:03:31] rapidtrades : 'ppl came to rely on 10 cap'...yeah u, arthur and his buddies
[2016-10-31 14:03:42] BitMEX_Wally : The maxPrice has been 10 XBT for all XBT quoted contracts since they launched. It was originally so the price box would not overflow with a tick size of 10^-5
[2016-10-31 14:03:59] rapidtrades : still ur fault
[2016-10-31 14:04:25] sally : BitMEX_Wally: and how did anyone know that? You understand contracts yeah?
[2016-10-31 14:04:43] rapidtrades : there was nothinng in the terms