This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2015-10-04 15:12:12] BitMEX_Sam : Expect that number to go back down to zero every Friday, or sooner if you were trading XBT24H
[2015-10-04 15:38:49] Ontita : Hi, is 7th October a date to watch?
[2015-10-04 15:39:21] Ontita : Looking at the charts, seems its a crossroad... to where is not clear
[2015-10-04 16:33:21] STRML : Not sure where it's going, depends on the charts you're looking at.
[2015-10-04 18:18:52] zanza : hello 240
[2015-10-05 11:17:20] krach : hi
[2015-10-05 11:17:46] krach : in the cash and carry blog post, I can not figure out what the upper and lower band are
[2015-10-05 11:38:39] BitMEX_Arthur : Hi what specifically is your question about the calculation
[2015-10-05 14:17:05] BitMEX_Arthur : Little Gemini fomo pump
[2015-10-05 15:09:36] krach : I think we figured it out, thanks
[2015-10-05 16:30:09] Gemz : oct settlement looks bullish, gemini goes live at the 8th
[2015-10-05 16:44:27] BitMEX_Sam : Gemz: They're looking good,
[2015-10-05 16:44:43] BitMEX_Sam : I did a quick technical overview of what I could see on their frontend; nice to see some good devs working on their product: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3nkpds/gemini_blog_and_were_live/cvp1xfa
[2015-10-05 16:56:40] j8 : last US govt auction of DPR's coins is nov 5
[2015-10-05 16:58:27] BitMEX_Sam : Surprised, wasn't clear if they actually had access to all of them
[2015-10-05 17:26:17] loke : j8: right smack on guy fawkes day. gotta love it.
[2015-10-05 17:26:34] j8 : ha no kidding
[2015-10-05 20:07:58] cengel : is there a way to turn chart off?
[2015-10-05 20:08:58] BitMEX_Sam : cengel: Curious; why would you do that?
[2015-10-05 20:09:41] cengel : i narrowed memory/cpu hog in my system to Chrome, specifically this site and im 90% sure its the chart that is causing it
[2015-10-05 20:10:32] BitMEX_Sam : Hmm. In the basic UI, it's off by default,
[2015-10-05 20:10:44] BitMEX_Sam : But I'll investigate the chart. We had CPU issues with it months ago but they cleared up.
[2015-10-05 20:10:45] cengel : becasue the stats are similar when i close this site and open a tv chart
[2015-10-05 20:11:06] BitMEX_Sam : I wouldn't be surprised if it gets itself into a bad state after a few hours.
[2015-10-05 20:11:14] cengel : its exactly that in fact
[2015-10-05 20:11:17] cengel : not immediate
[2015-10-05 20:11:34] BitMEX_Sam : They just released a new version of the lib, I'll upgrade it here on the site once I am sure it plays nice
[2015-10-05 20:11:46] BitMEX_Sam : As for disabling the chart, you can right-click / inspect the container and just delete it
[2015-10-05 20:11:54] BitMEX_Sam : Or use the basic ui
[2015-10-05 20:11:57] cengel : i did that, but it started fing with the websockets
[2015-10-05 20:12:38] BitMEX_Sam : when you just delete the iframe?
[2015-10-05 20:13:08] cengel : i forget if i deleted it or used ad block to block it
[2015-10-05 20:13:28] cengel : i think i deleted the trollbox div and that caused problems too
[2015-10-05 20:14:01] cengel : it would be nice to just be able to in account settings choose to make the ui more lean by removing extras
[2015-10-05 20:14:16] cengel : then i can get the old bigger margin bars
[2015-10-05 20:14:33] cengel : not crammed next to bigger order controls panel
[2015-10-05 20:14:53] cengel : i dont know how feasible that is on front end
[2015-10-05 20:18:15] BitMEX_Sam : Eventually I want to offer a lot more customization to the frontend
[2015-10-05 20:18:27] BitMEX_Sam : But it's not there yet.
[2015-10-05 20:21:11] cengel : also in Order Controls it is missing the price of the position when you have an open position. dont see why it shouldnt be in there when Liquidation Price is
[2015-10-05 20:21:40] cengel : not sure if that was oversight or intentional but comes off as the former
[2015-10-05 20:22:15] cengel : Avg Entry Price, that is.
[2015-10-05 20:22:31] BitMEX_Sam : Ah. Well the idea is that you have the mark price and your liquidation price, so you can see how far you are from liquidation.
[2015-10-05 20:23:15] cengel : and it says positoin x Contracts, is it too tight to put in the entry pr too?
[2015-10-05 20:23:47] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, I'd have to get rid of the max leverage text.
[2015-10-05 20:23:53] BitMEX_Sam : Or think of some other way to organize this.
[2015-10-05 20:24:03] cengel : between the two columns of those two rows it seems that it should be there though
[2015-10-05 20:24:19] BitMEX_Sam : issue is when you resize the browser
[2015-10-05 20:24:53] cengel : i just realized that every time in the panel i end up scrolling to find my avg price
[2015-10-05 20:24:58] BitMEX_Sam : Sure
[2015-10-05 20:25:02] cengel : because it's something i want to check when seeing mark price and liquidation and position
[2015-10-05 20:25:05] BitMEX_Sam : That's legitimate.
[2015-10-05 20:25:11] cengel : cool
[2015-10-05 21:21:01] BitMEX_Sam : BombaUcigasa: See my reply in the TS chat
[2015-10-05 21:21:42] BombaUcigasa : TO THE MOON!
[2015-10-05 21:26:14] BitMEX_Sam : cengel: How's this: losing money on a long: http://i.imgur.com/pKBkPwE.jpg
[2015-10-05 21:26:30] BitMEX_Sam : and making money on a short: http://i.imgur.com/zRWRO02.jpg
[2015-10-05 21:27:06] cengel : nice but no liquidation price? still think thats good to have too
[2015-10-05 21:27:37] BitMEX_Sam : It's on hover
[2015-10-05 21:27:47] BitMEX_Sam : Until I figure out a better way to organize that panel I figured it was a good compromise
[2015-10-05 21:28:50] BitMEX_Sam : Although in general I'm not a big fan of hover-based controls.
[2015-10-05 21:31:19] cengel : what about parenthetically next to mark price, since that's what triggers liquidation it seems intuitive enough
[2015-10-05 21:31:24] cengel : in bold red
[2015-10-05 21:32:56] cengel : or asterisk or some other label
[2015-10-05 21:32:58] BitMEX_Sam : True
[2015-10-05 21:33:05] BitMEX_Sam : That could work.
[2015-10-05 21:41:35] cengel : only problem is we're going to the moon soon so when price is over 1000 it may get cramped
[2015-10-05 22:00:55] Gemz : bullish breakout anytime soon
[2015-10-05 22:50:37] clashcitybaron : lol
[2015-10-05 22:50:43] clashcitybaron : "bullish breakout soon"
[2015-10-06 01:45:02] billyboy402 : why is the XBU and XBT dec price $23 different and the index price is different too ,. how do they work out the index price on XBT
[2015-10-06 02:33:49] j8 : @billyboy402 `XBT` mark price is the index price plus the 'fair basis', right now it's +37% annualized and about $20 in dollar terms (not annualized)
[2015-10-06 02:34:40] j8 : it's just set manually from time to time to be close to where the market is
[2015-10-06 02:36:26] BitMEX_Sam : billyboy402: The reasoning is that XBT is far more favorable for long positions due to its structure
[2015-10-06 09:30:20] hj5497 : why are so many troll boxes of poor conversation quality?
[2015-10-06 09:30:56] hj5497 : BitMEX_Sam: has this trollbox always been pretty good?
[2015-10-06 09:32:23] BitMEX_Wally : hj5497: We've always had great conversation on here
[2015-10-06 09:32:48] BitMEX_Wally : It's evolved into a community/support function too
[2015-10-06 09:33:11] hj5497 : yeah, I've noticed that
[2015-10-06 09:33:12] hj5497 : it's great
[2015-10-06 09:33:39] hj5497 : but why do you think it's so much better than other troll boxes where it's mostly annoying trolls vs. substance
[2015-10-06 09:35:13] BitMEX_Wally : A quality product attracts quality customers :)
[2015-10-06 09:41:35] hj5497 : haha
[2015-10-06 09:41:40] hj5497 : tru tru
[2015-10-06 09:42:18] hj5497 : seriously tho do you think that your team does a better job of participating in the conversation?
[2015-10-06 09:42:55] hj5497 : for ex how much of your team are traders?
[2015-10-06 09:45:43] hj5497 : or are you a bunch of posers ;)
[2015-10-06 09:45:49] hj5497 : jk jk
[2015-10-06 09:49:19] BitMEX_Arthur : Careful :)
[2015-10-06 10:10:34] Gemz : Question, i went 200 contracts long for oct settlement at 240.90, price, isolate margin 21 x atm and price 241.88, thos my unrealised pnl shows only 0.0021 in profit which is around 40 cents, isnt it pretty low?
[2015-10-06 10:13:57] cengel : lol buy more contracts then
[2015-10-06 10:14:34] Gemz : with 21x, 200 contracts long and 1 usd rise, im only op 0.0021 xbt
[2015-10-06 10:14:58] cengel : yea so buy 2000 contracts instead then, get in the game bro
[2015-10-06 10:15:09] BitMEX_Arthur : 200 contracts is worth about 0.5 XBT
[2015-10-06 10:15:18] BitMEX_Arthur : that is your leveraged notional
[2015-10-06 10:15:45] BitMEX_Arthur : As cengel said, if you want to increase your exposure trade a larger size
[2015-10-06 10:16:47] Gemz : even with 2000 contracts and a 1 isd rise i would only be 0.021 xbt up right now thats only around 4 dollars, am i missing something?
[2015-10-06 10:18:33] cengel : then go 20000 contracts long
[2015-10-06 10:20:21] Gemz : i need 50 btc for that
[2015-10-06 10:22:05] cengel : then get more btc to bet if you want a $1 move to line your pockets
[2015-10-06 10:22:53] Gemz : majority of contract here are between 2500 and 10000, with 25x, thats still nothing much earned with a 1, 2 usd move
[2015-10-06 10:28:00] Gemz : i paid 107 euro for 0.5 btc, now 0.5 btc costs 108 euro, if i would have sold it now i would have gained 1 euro, how come i have only gained 40 cents with a 25x leverage on a 1 usd rise?
[2015-10-06 10:32:35] cengel : a $1 move in 1 bitcoin is not equal to $1 move in your 0.5 btc
[2015-10-06 10:32:40] BitMEX_Wally : Gemz: If the price went up 1 USD but you only had half a Bitcoin worth, then your PNL would be roughly half a dollar
[2015-10-06 10:33:07] Matthew.v : I prefer to do all my book keeping in btc.
[2015-10-06 10:33:54] BitMEX_Wally : `XBTV15 is a XBT/USD futures contract settling on the .XBT2H Index. Each contract is worth 0.00001 XBT per $1 price.`
[2015-10-06 10:34:40] BitMEX_Wally : You had 200 contracts * 1 USD move * 0.00001 = 0.002 XBT profit
[2015-10-06 10:36:21] BitMEX_Wally : Basically 200 contracts at 240.90 has a gross value of 200 * 240.90 * 0.00001 = 0.4818 XBT
[2015-10-06 10:37:43] Gemz : I see, so if i would sell at 1 usd rise i would made 0.002 xbt profit right?
[2015-10-06 10:37:56] BitMEX_Wally : Yes
[2015-10-06 10:38:30] BitMEX_Wally : You could open a much larger position, say 20,000 contracts at 246.95 which would be worth roughly 50 XBT. We offer 25x leverage so this would only require 2 XBT of margin in your account
[2015-10-06 10:39:48] BitMEX_Wally : Then if the price went up 1 USD you would make 0.2 XBT
[2015-10-06 10:40:25] Gemz : i need 50 btc in available funds section for 20k contracts right?
[2015-10-06 10:40:29] BitMEX_Wally : No
[2015-10-06 10:40:38] BitMEX_Wally : You need a twenty-fifth of that
[2015-10-06 10:40:40] BitMEX_Wally : i.e. 2 XBT
[2015-10-06 10:41:31] Gemz : o ok, and with 0.5 xbt i could actually go 5000 contracts
[2015-10-06 10:41:35] BitMEX_Wally : On the Order Controls you can enter a quantity and price, it will show you the gross Order Value, the Margin (Buy) required
[2015-10-06 10:41:46] BitMEX_Wally : Gemz: Correct
[2015-10-06 10:42:31] BitMEX_Wally : So your 0.5 is leveraged 25x to get you a 12.5 XBT position
[2015-10-06 10:43:34] Gemz : i see, 5000 for xbt7d is need 0.5281 xbt to go long, which shows as margin (buy)
[2015-10-06 10:44:22] BitMEX_Wally : Yes
[2015-10-06 10:44:26] Gemz : i looked at order value and took that as xbt required, :/ lol
[2015-10-06 10:44:43] Gemz : thanks man
[2015-10-06 10:45:01] BitMEX_Wally : You're welcome
[2015-10-06 10:45:10] BitMEX_Wally : Checkout the Current Margin Status chart here: https://www.bitmex.com/app/wallet
[2015-10-06 10:45:24] BitMEX_Wally : This is also available on the Advanced View
[2015-10-06 10:45:42] BitMEX_Wally : Shows you exactly how much Available Margin you have left (not being used on positions)
[2015-10-06 10:45:50] BitMEX_Wally : And how much leverage you're correctly using
[2015-10-06 10:47:13] Gemz : thanks
[2015-10-06 15:31:09] BitMEX_Sam : Some pretty good movement today
[2015-10-06 15:33:07] Mangalica : yup
[2015-10-06 15:59:45] j8 : hey arthur was on bloomberg. cool
[2015-10-06 16:12:55] TschavaTschigger : I don't get why futures with higher expiration dates are more expensive then the current price suggests... this means you could just buy tons of bitcoins, hedge by shorting longterm futures and then profiting if price is between current price and exercise price?
[2015-10-06 16:15:06] BitMEX_Arthur : TschavaTschigger: Yes that is correct it is called spread trading but it is not risk free
[2015-10-06 16:15:20] BitMEX_Arthur : With our 50-25x leveraged contracts
[2015-10-06 16:33:49] loke : BitMEX_Arthur: Hi guys, I like the new additions to the UI, very informative, but are the decimals after the contract amount necessary?
[2015-10-06 16:36:49] loke : Especially for ETH where there are 5 decimals. Also, if one is short (as one would for ETH), the percentage price difference doesn't seem to handle negatives.
[2015-10-06 16:45:11] BitMEX_Sam : loke: ETH definitely needs five decimals due to its price; if we made it a larger number there would be confusion as to what the price actually means
[2015-10-06 16:45:30] BitMEX_Sam : As for the % price difference, are you talking about the calculator?
[2015-10-06 16:51:57] loke : BitMEX_Sam: No, it's the "Your Position" field. Since one cannot buy decimals of contracts I feel like it just adds clutter.
[2015-10-06 16:52:44] loke : This goes for the other contracts as well. They are all integers.
[2015-10-06 16:53:40] loke : So having decimals behind them makes little sense.
[2015-10-06 16:58:43] cengel : it never adds decimals for me when there is active position
[2015-10-06 17:11:14] hashman : quick question. looking at open positions - I have unrealized PNL and realized PNL
[2015-10-06 17:11:37] hashman : lets say I a have 0.6 XBT unrealized and 0.2 XBT relaized
[2015-10-06 17:12:07] hashman : is my total profit 0.8 XBT ?
[2015-10-06 17:14:59] BitMEX_Wally : hashman: Yes
[2015-10-06 17:54:04] BitMEX_Sam : Thanks loke, that's fixed
[2015-10-06 20:47:02] daverich204 : test message - please ignore.
[2015-10-06 20:48:24] BitMEX_Sam : Oh, now you're asking for it
[2015-10-06 20:51:00] belcher : dont tell me what to do ;)
[2015-10-06 20:52:04] daverich204 : There goes BitMEX_Sam always being right.
[2015-10-06 21:31:33] cowtung : What is up with XLT7D on the testnet?
[2015-10-06 23:21:55] hashman : any issues with deposits right now?
[2015-10-06 23:22:40] hashman : any issue with deposit?
[2015-10-06 23:24:22] BitMEX_Sam : hashman: No, what are you seeing?
[2015-10-06 23:24:40] hashman : deposit has 1 confirmation, no email yet
[2015-10-06 23:24:45] cowtung : What is up with XLT7D on the testnet? why is it in btc?
[2015-10-06 23:25:06] BitMEX_Sam : hashman: Let me check on it
[2015-10-06 23:25:21] BitMEX_Sam : hashman: Please email us a txid to support@bitmex.com
[2015-10-06 23:25:25] hashman : no rush, maybe the email just slow
[2015-10-06 23:25:39] BitMEX_Sam : That happens sometimes - did you see the credit?
[2015-10-06 23:25:58] hashman : not yet. how many confirmations before i should see it in the balance?
[2015-10-06 23:26:03] BitMEX_Sam : Usually 1
[2015-10-06 23:37:48] frullet : so little liquidity
[2015-10-06 23:42:06] hashman : sam, sent email. 2 confirmations, nothing yet. thanks
[2015-10-06 23:42:28] BitMEX_Arthur : frullet: Looks like one of the mm dropped out for a bit, looks like they are
[2015-10-06 23:46:27] BitMEX_Sam : hashman: Just as I was looking at the logs I saw it come through
[2015-10-06 23:46:42] BitMEX_Sam : Will investigate the slowness but you're good to go
[2015-10-06 23:47:11] hashman : yep got it now
[2015-10-06 23:47:12] hashman : no worries
[2015-10-06 23:47:14] hashman : thanks
[2015-10-06 23:47:48] hashman : I had some transaction issues lately due to this: http://blog.coinkite.com/post/130318407326/ongoing-bitcoin-malleability-attack-low-s-high
[2015-10-06 23:48:02] hashman : not sure if it was related or still ongoing
[2015-10-06 23:48:48] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, we've been watching that. We watch txs by the inputs, not the ID, so nothing to worry about - wouldn't affect deposits anyway
[2015-10-06 23:58:52] hj5497 : hashman: how many years have you been trading?
[2015-10-07 00:00:57] zanza : anyone make some money today?
[2015-10-07 00:02:45] cowtung : I managed to avoid losing too much on the spread between china and the us as I avoided capital controls today
[2015-10-07 00:03:33] cowtung : waited almost a week for the prices to reach here
[2015-10-07 00:03:39] cowtung : could have been bad if it went the other way
[2015-10-07 00:16:38] micmix : zanza: about 20% in profit this week
[2015-10-07 03:53:42] BitMEX_Wally : cowtung: The `XLT7D` contract on testnet is the same as here
[2015-10-07 08:21:25] cengel : hey sam I like the order control change but maybe the (liquidation price) should have a different color
[2015-10-07 10:41:34] Gemz : quick question, what happens to my trade/profit/loss if im still in a trade while the expiry time has come?
[2015-10-07 10:44:06] DunningKruger : Gemz: it closes automatically and settles at the mark price.
[2015-10-07 10:45:10] BitMEX_Wally : Gemz: It closes automatically at the settlement price
[2015-10-07 10:45:27] DunningKruger : ^^
[2015-10-07 10:46:08] BitMEX_Wally : DunningKruger: For example with XBT24H, the markPrice is just be the last price at the underlying exchange, but the settlement price is a 30 minute TWAP
[2015-10-07 10:46:19] DunningKruger : BitMEX_Wally: thanks.
[2015-10-07 10:46:23] Gemz : will i still get my profit would i be in profit?
[2015-10-07 10:46:44] BitMEX_Wally : Actually, now I think about it, during the last 30 minutes the markPrice becomes the cumulative TWAP
[2015-10-07 10:46:56] BitMEX_Wally : So effectively yes, the markPrice becomes the settlement price incrementally
[2015-10-07 10:47:19] BitMEX_Wally : So the profit you see is the profit you get
[2015-10-07 10:47:56] cengel : minus DPE
[2015-10-07 10:48:34] DunningKruger : BitMEX_Wally: while you're here can you tell me: if I enter a trade on XBTH16, even if I close it, my PNL is unrealised until the settlement date? Or every Friday?
[2015-10-07 10:49:12] BitMEX_Wally : If you enter and then exit a position on XBTH16 you have realisedPnl, but this realisedPnl is withheld until Friday
[2015-10-07 10:49:25] DunningKruger : BitMEX_Wally: right, thanks.
[2015-10-07 10:50:22] BitMEX_Wally : realisedPnl is from past trading and is a constant, unrealisedPnl is from an open position and varies with the markPrice
[2015-10-07 10:51:01] DunningKruger : BitMEX_Wally: yep that's what I thought, I just get my terms mixed up sometimes :p
[2015-10-07 10:52:00] Gemz : by settled at market price do you mean if im long then my position will be sold at market price?
[2015-10-07 10:53:50] BitMEX_Wally : Yes
[2015-10-07 10:54:07] BitMEX_Wally : Effectively if you are long then your position is sold at the settlement price
[2015-10-07 10:54:38] BitMEX_Wally : These are 'Cash Settled' futures, so you get paid the difference between your entry price and the settlement price
[2015-10-07 10:54:46] BitMEX_Wally : Cash settled in Bitcoin
[2015-10-07 22:17:43] ahheatyoface : Wow its expensive as hell to market buy
[2015-10-07 22:18:24] BitMEX_Sam : ahheatyoface: On which contract?
[2015-10-07 22:18:41] BitMEX_Sam : In general though, market orders are a bad idea
[2015-10-07 22:41:58] ahheatyoface : 24hr
[2015-10-07 22:42:32] ahheatyoface : Wouldn't have been to bad if it wasn't for the fee lol. But everyone's gotta make their money
[2015-10-07 22:43:22] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, looks like people are chipping away at the mm anyway though
[2015-10-07 22:43:38] BitMEX_Sam : market's bullish.
[2015-10-08 00:10:42] lockhedge : Great fundamentals/traction for Bitcoin lately: TradeBlock may be(come) a strategic Goldman Sachs investment. The CEO of Europe’s largest fintech accelerator has been hired by UBS's new Blockchain Lab. $3.5b market cap is actually much too low.
[2015-10-08 00:11:01] zanza : + Gemini
[2015-10-08 00:11:08] zanza : and Bitcoin ETF coming
[2015-10-08 00:14:42] BitMEX_Arthur : Do you have any new developments on the ETF
[2015-10-08 00:14:47] BitMEX_Arthur : I haven't heard anything
[2015-10-08 00:17:50] lockhedge : "Winklevoss Twins Bitcoin Exchange Could Drive Demand For ETF" http://www.etftrends.com/2015/10/winklevoss-twins-bitcoin-exchange-could-drive-demand-for-etf/?utm_content=buffer2b5aa&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
[2015-10-08 00:21:16] lockhedge : "Approval of the Winklevoss Bitcoin ETF is expected before the end of the year" https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3nv13y/was_launching_the_gemini_exchange_the_holdup_with/
[2015-10-08 00:21:59] lockhedge : sorry, wrong link... https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3na851/approval_of_the_winklevoss_bitcoin_etf_is/
[2015-10-08 00:30:25] BitMEX_Arthur : Nothing but unfounded hype
[2015-10-08 00:30:34] BitMEX_Arthur : They are a long way away from approving imo
[2015-10-08 00:33:40] lockhedge : yep, sounds like they are mainly fundraising and selling their vision to investors., at least they do their PR job quite well and get their story out.
[2015-10-08 01:57:52] zanza : gold is bad since we will be able to mine it from Asteroids in the future
[2015-10-08 09:38:00] Scott J : It would be nice if the withdraw cutoff was slightly after the daily settlement
[2015-10-08 11:01:51] Gemz : not sure why markets going down now gemini is about to launch
[2015-10-08 12:01:39] DunningKruger : Gemz: yeah 2 years too late really. Not going to have much impact.
[2015-10-08 12:01:52] DunningKruger : Scott J: +1
[2015-10-08 12:08:47] vbmithr : Hey all
[2015-10-08 12:09:01] vbmithr : If anybody wants to beta test my Sierra Chart -> BitMEX bridge.
[2015-10-08 12:09:04] vbmithr : Would be awesome :)
[2015-10-08 12:35:51] vbmithr : there is no BVOL anymore right?
[2015-10-08 12:36:24] STRML : Right, BVOL has been suspended for now
[2015-10-08 12:40:11] vbmithr : good morning btw
[2015-10-08 12:43:14] STRML : Morning :)
[2015-10-08 12:44:11] vbmithr : I was wondering, is it possible to have different contracts at different sides ?
[2015-10-08 12:44:23] vbmithr : if I buy and sell the same contract at the same price
[2015-10-08 12:44:44] STRML : Not sure what you mean
[2015-10-08 12:45:15] vbmithr : yeah, not sure what I mean either
[2015-10-08 12:45:23] vbmithr : If I open a long position on say XLT7D
[2015-10-08 12:45:32] vbmithr : and then after I open a short position on the same symbol
[2015-10-08 12:45:37] vbmithr : The result is no position
[2015-10-08 12:45:40] STRML : Right
[2015-10-08 12:45:48] STRML : On some sites the result is two positions, which is crazy
[2015-10-08 12:45:48] vbmithr : where it could be two opposite positions
[2015-10-08 12:46:02] vbmithr : why is it crazy?
[2015-10-08 12:46:06] STRML : Because it makes no sense
[2015-10-08 12:46:20] vbmithr : but if you don't buy the contract at the same price?
[2015-10-08 12:46:39] STRML : Doesn't matter, the net result is how large your position is in contracts, it has nothing to do with what price you bought them at
[2015-10-08 12:47:04] STRML : The value of the position is price * contract multiplier * contracts held
[2015-10-08 12:47:14] STRML : price being current price, not entry price
[2015-10-08 12:48:59] vbmithr : yes
[2015-10-08 12:49:13] vbmithr : of course
[2015-10-08 12:49:47] vbmithr : OKCoin is absurd
[2015-10-08 12:49:57] STRML : It can be
[2015-10-08 12:50:12] STRML : We don't do opposite positions because it's confusing, difficult to track, and makes order placement really strange
[2015-10-08 12:50:18] STRML : And encourages users to things like market close a position
[2015-10-08 12:50:40] vbmithr : You just said it makes no sense
[2015-10-08 12:50:45] STRML : Right
[2015-10-08 12:51:05] STRML : From an accounting standpoint you can't really make the math work properly unless you just offset the positions anyway
[2015-10-08 12:51:16] STRML : In any case no other market does it the way OKC does (that I know of)
[2015-10-08 12:51:30] cengel : but dont you want moar fees?
[2015-10-08 12:51:41] STRML : cengel: There's no difference, fees are charged on executions
[2015-10-08 12:52:00] cengel : yea so if someone is opening multi positions you make more as exchange
[2015-10-08 12:52:11] cengel : rather than closing the position out (1 vs 2 executions)
[2015-10-08 12:52:21] vbmithr : opening + closing = 2 execs no?
[2015-10-08 12:52:37] STRML : OKC used to not charge close fees, I'm not sure if they started recently or not, thought I heard something about that
[2015-10-08 12:53:02] STRML : vbmithr: Right
[2015-10-08 14:14:34] vbmithr : XBT7D say
[2015-10-08 14:14:39] vbmithr : Symbols that never change names
[2015-10-08 14:14:50] vbmithr : They are different between sessions right?
[2015-10-08 14:15:21] vbmithr : when they settle
[2015-10-08 14:15:29] vbmithr : everybody has to retake positions on the new ones
[2015-10-08 14:15:33] vbmithr : STRML: is it the case?
[2015-10-08 14:15:53] STRML : as in, when they settle weekly?
[2015-10-08 14:16:09] STRML : at settlement all positions are force-exited at the markPrice
[2015-10-08 14:16:59] vbmithr : yes.
[2015-10-08 14:17:31] vbmithr : Ok
[2015-10-08 14:17:36] vbmithr : So, it's like other symbols
[2015-10-08 14:17:44] vbmithr : except that they are recreated with the same name
[2015-10-08 14:18:10] STRML : Yep
[2015-10-08 15:20:57] cengel : STRML - is there any ETA on the adjustable isolate margin? i have a strategy in mind that relies on being able to use lower leverage on later XBT contracts and daily 50x as insurance
[2015-10-08 15:22:36] STRML : cengel: I'll check with Wally, I want to that out the door too
[2015-10-08 15:22:53] STRML : In the meantime you can work around it by using cross margin, although I know that's not ideal
[2015-10-08 15:23:02] STRML : Or by using another account
[2015-10-08 17:36:42] AudibleScience : hello
[2015-10-08 17:38:24] STRML : Hey, how's it going
[2015-10-08 17:47:26] zanza : http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2015-10-06/fintech-innovation-opportunity-or-disruptive-threat-
[2015-10-08 17:48:20] STRML : Unfortunately he shaved his beard before that.
[2015-10-08 17:48:23] STRML : You should've seen it.
[2015-10-08 18:21:05] zanza : :)
[2015-10-08 19:00:53] zanza : wow SnP 2k
[2015-10-08 19:01:21] zanza : I wonder if its because the new Gemini opening?
[2015-10-09 01:56:19] zanza : RIP XBTH16 orderbook
[2015-10-09 06:13:10] gaoMex : Question: Taker fee for XBU is 0.25% while that for XBT is 0.05%. Why is fee for XBU higher than XBT?
[2015-10-09 06:17:13] BitMEX_Wally : gaoMex: Because XBU is not subject to DPE and we guarantee settlement
[2015-10-09 06:18:42] gaoMex : I see. Does insurance fee play a part too?
[2015-10-09 06:21:22] gaoMex : "To help cover the cost of providing this guarantee, as well as exchange operations, BitMEX charges an insurance fee on the value of any open position at the end of any 8-hour trading session."
[2015-10-09 06:22:00] gaoMex : So effectively, XBU does not charge insurance fee, whereas XBT does?
[2015-10-09 06:30:05] BitMEX_Wally : There are no more insurance fees
[2015-10-09 06:30:25] BitMEX_Wally : Let me update the documentation
[2015-10-09 06:33:39] gaoMex : Thanks, Wally.
[2015-10-09 07:42:57] BitMEX_Arthur : okcoin settlement boys
[2015-10-09 07:56:17] gaoMex : BitMEX_Arthur: WRT to the recent articles on Basis Trading, apart from interest rate differential between contracts, would DPE be a risk factor too?
[2015-10-09 08:00:02] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes that is a risk factor
[2015-10-09 08:04:28] gaoMex : I'm thinking of giving it a try. Would XBTV15 and XBTH16 with 10X leverage be a good starting point?
[2015-10-09 08:06:45] gaoMex : For contango trading.
[2015-10-09 09:45:19] BitMEX_Arthur : gaoMex: I stand by my trade recommendation from the latest newsletter
[2015-10-09 09:45:45] BitMEX_Arthur : buy XBTH16 vs selling either V15 or Z15
[2015-10-09 09:47:33] gaoMex : Will re-read the newsletter. Thanks.
[2015-10-09 10:16:22] cengel : Arthur's newsletters are must-read. I dont always agree but he always backs up his case
[2015-10-09 10:20:57] cengel : i.e., not just drawing pretty lines :)
[2015-10-09 12:07:29] BitWise : BitMEX_Arthur: You there?
[2015-10-09 12:08:55] BitMEX_Arthur : BitWise: How can I help
[2015-10-09 12:09:15] BitWise : Something seems off
[2015-10-09 12:09:36] BitWise : I suddenly have a position, while I had closed all previous once
[2015-10-09 12:09:49] BitMEX_Arthur : What is the ticker
[2015-10-09 12:10:00] BitWise : ticker?
[2015-10-09 12:10:09] BitMEX_Arthur : Symbol
[2015-10-09 12:10:21] BitWise : XBTZ15
[2015-10-09 12:11:11] BitWise : It's a little in profit now ;-) but still want to know what happend
[2015-10-09 12:12:22] BitMEX_Arthur : Ok can you send an email to support@bitmex.com and explain what you thought happened and we will take a look through your trade history and get back to you
[2015-10-09 12:12:46] BitWise : Should I close it if I dont'want it?
[2015-10-09 12:14:04] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes, and we will investigate, did you have any open orders?
[2015-10-09 12:15:06] BitWise : Yes , on the eth7d
[2015-10-09 12:15:15] BitWise : not filled
[2015-10-09 12:15:49] BitWise : cancelled by the engine on new week prob
[2015-10-09 12:16:22] BitWise : I''l sent you a mail
[2015-10-09 12:16:34] BitMEX_Arthur : Thanks
[2015-10-09 12:16:49] BitWise : Use your name to access
[2015-10-09 12:27:18] TInvest : when do the daily withdrawals usually complete?
[2015-10-09 12:28:50] TInvest : i mean to say, what's the usual time from 12:00UTC to completion of all withdrawals
[2015-10-09 12:34:09] BitMEX_Sam : TInvest: It's usually about 45 minutes as it's all human signing and review
[2015-10-09 12:34:27] BitMEX_Sam : We're almost done with this round
[2015-10-09 12:44:26] BitWise : BitMEX_Arthur: Mail send, use your name
[2015-10-09 12:44:33] BitMEX_Sam : BitWise: We got it
[2015-10-09 12:45:33] BitMEX_Sam : I'll have our engine dev get back to you as soon as he can - he's at an event but I've sent him the details. Thanks
[2015-10-09 12:45:57] BitWise : k, thx
[2015-10-09 13:17:44] BitWise : Could it be that the api doesn't give new prices?
[2015-10-09 13:21:02] BitMEX_Sam : Sorry, new prices to what? The API always has the latest data
[2015-10-09 18:06:11] zanza : how did Friday's rebalance treat everyone ?
[2015-10-09 18:17:15] cengel : rekt
[2015-10-09 18:36:27] micmix : BitMEX_Sam: any way to see what the entry price was before rebalancing?
[2015-10-09 20:36:44] zanza : under your wallet?
[2015-10-09 20:36:58] zanza : you have to math a bit
[2015-10-09 20:48:39] STRML : Yeah, zanza is correct micmix - we are working on a more intuitive way to display these numbers and a better way to display positions after rebalance
[2015-10-09 23:35:55] hashman : does unrealised PNL take into account trade fees?
[2015-10-09 23:36:26] hashman : or is that in realised PNL immediately?
[2015-10-10 00:21:46] zanza : commission fees are immediate I believ
[2015-10-10 02:58:24] zanza : Bitmex boys, and chance we will see 50x on any other XBT's in the future?
[2015-10-10 03:47:18] BitMEX_Wally : zanza: We are thinking about 50x on `XBT7D`
[2015-10-10 04:21:23] micmix : BitMEX_Wally: Yes, give us more rope to hang ourselves plz :-)
[2015-10-10 05:39:35] cengel : Yes but at least let us choose how long the rope is before you make it all contracts, pretty please
[2015-10-10 06:00:57] cengel : u know, letting us choose to allocate margin at lower leverage rates not just 50x!
[2015-10-10 08:06:10] Adriyelalanthomas : hi
[2015-10-10 08:08:59] Adriyelalanthomas : is there someone that can help with a calender spread like the process of inputing a trade
[2015-10-10 08:09:33] BitMEX_Arthur : Hi
[2015-10-10 08:09:38] Adriyelalanthomas : hi
[2015-10-10 08:09:48] BitMEX_Arthur : Do you want to put on a spread trade
[2015-10-10 08:10:05] Adriyelalanthomas : my name is Adriyell and yes i want to put a spread on
[2015-10-10 08:10:32] BitMEX_Arthur : Between which two contracts
[2015-10-10 08:12:27] Adriyelalanthomas : i havent put one to mind,but i seen your example and i was thinking about 500 spread or 100 hundered dollars
[2015-10-10 08:12:48] Adriyelalanthomas : selling june for july
[2015-10-10 08:13:18] Adriyelalanthomas : i know wthat much like i said ive been through examples but just dont know to put it on
[2015-10-10 08:13:22] Adriyelalanthomas : yes
[2015-10-10 08:14:06] Adriyelalanthomas : i read though pice per unit
[2015-10-10 08:14:23] Adriyelalanthomas : $1.00 per unit
[2015-10-10 08:14:31] Adriyelalanthomas : .00001
[2015-10-10 08:14:49] BitMEX_Arthur : For example buy XBTH16 vs sell XBTV15 and trade equal numbers of contracts
[2015-10-10 08:15:03] Adriyelalanthomas : yes
[2015-10-10 08:15:17] Adriyelalanthomas : sounds very simple
[2015-10-10 08:15:38] BitMEX_Arthur : it is and then you want for the spread to change
[2015-10-10 08:15:50] Adriyelalanthomas : ok
[2015-10-10 08:17:15] Adriyelalanthomas : like i when i use the spread calculator i get the spread right i just dont know how to buy it becuz it says i bitcoin the amount to sell like what i'm doing wrong
[2015-10-10 08:17:45] Adriyelalanthomas : it says one bitcoin
[2015-10-10 08:17:53] Adriyelalanthomas : when i want to buy it
[2015-10-10 08:18:07] Adriyelalanthomas : no price in dollars or bitcoin
[2015-10-10 08:18:17] Adriyelalanthomas : i'm looking in the wrong place
[2015-10-10 08:18:36] BitMEX_Arthur : Think in contracts
[2015-10-10 08:18:45] Adriyelalanthomas : ok
[2015-10-10 08:19:06] Adriyelalanthomas : a contract cost 100 or 500
[2015-10-10 08:19:11] BitMEX_Arthur : buy 10000 contracts of one and sell 10000 of another
[2015-10-10 08:19:34] Adriyelalanthomas : how do i buy and sell that on bitmex
[2015-10-10 08:19:45] Adriyelalanthomas : i read that much
[2015-10-10 08:19:57] BitMEX_Arthur : just Input two separate orders
[2015-10-10 08:20:06] Adriyelalanthomas : the contract thing i'm more into i guess how do i place a trade
[2015-10-10 08:20:13] Adriyelalanthomas : ok
[2015-10-10 08:20:47] BitMEX_Arthur : input a quantity and then a price and press buy or sell
[2015-10-10 08:21:08] Adriyelalanthomas : o thats it
[2015-10-10 08:22:23] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes it is very simple
[2015-10-10 08:22:39] Adriyelalanthomas : last question woulnt i see how many units (.00001) i make in profit before i xcute the trade
[2015-10-10 08:22:49] Adriyelalanthomas : excute
[2015-10-10 08:23:03] BitMEX_Arthur : use the calculator
[2015-10-10 08:23:21] BitMEX_Arthur : you can see how the profit changes
[2015-10-10 08:23:39] Adriyelalanthomas : ok i would just sell june for july by putting in the calnder spread and thats it
[2015-10-10 08:24:19] BitMEX_Arthur : we don't have the calendar spread contract anymore
[2015-10-10 08:25:03] Adriyelalanthomas : could i still do something simular
[2015-10-10 08:25:29] BitMEX_Arthur : yes just place each separately
[2015-10-10 08:26:01] Adriyelalanthomas : ok thank you and have a nice night goodbye
[2015-10-10 08:26:23] BitMEX_Arthur : please let us know if you have any other questions
[2015-10-10 14:19:22] Adriyelalanthomas : hi
[2015-10-10 14:21:15] STRML : Hey
[2015-10-10 14:21:41] Adriyelalanthomas : if i buy 100 contracts of xnth16 for 290.00 and sell 100 xbtv15 for 248.81 will i profit
[2015-10-10 14:22:42] STRML : In the general case, yes, but if there is large volatility between now and the XBTH16 settlement, it is possible to lose
[2015-10-10 14:23:01] STRML : Let me see if I can find a good reference for you
[2015-10-10 14:23:10] Adriyelalanthomas : ok
[2015-10-10 14:23:54] STRML : Okay - for one, you have your buy and sell around the wrong way, sorry for not catching that
[2015-10-10 14:24:04] STRML : You would want to sell the long-dated future (XBTH16) and buy the short-dated future
[2015-10-10 14:24:14] BitMEX_Wally : Buy low, sell high :)
[2015-10-10 14:24:52] STRML : Wally, perhaps you can explain the risks better than I could
[2015-10-10 14:24:55] Adriyelalanthomas : ok
[2015-10-10 14:33:55] cengel : wasnt arthurs advice to do the opposite
[2015-10-10 14:34:22] cengel : because of how the volatility would affect longer dated premiums
[2015-10-10 14:34:30] cengel : but pull back on shorten
[2015-10-10 14:35:54] cengel : Trade Recommendation: Buy XBTH16 vs. sell XBTZ15 to profit from a volatility normalisation and a widening of the spread between the two contracts.
[2015-10-10 14:35:59] BitMEX_Arthur : Sam is right the classic trade is short the higher priced long dated future and go long the short dated
[2015-10-10 14:36:03] cengel : https://blog.bitmex.com/crypto-trader-digest-oct-5/
[2015-10-10 14:36:30] cengel : oh i thought it was referencing the newsletter not basis trade
[2015-10-10 14:36:48] cengel : it=he
[2015-10-10 14:37:08] cengel : carry on then ignore me :)
[2015-10-10 14:37:21] BitMEX_Arthur : but for a shorter term I am recommending that trade
[2015-10-10 14:39:48] BitMEX_Arthur : That is the beauty of basis trading. Depending on your holding time you can take totally opposite positions
[2015-10-10 15:21:53] Adriyelalanthomas : if i go long 100 xbtv15, then short 100 xbth16 will i profit
[2015-10-10 17:59:27] peasant-wizard : The BitMEX interface is truly refined. Nice work dudes.
[2015-10-10 18:07:29] STRML : Thanks peasant-wizard
[2015-10-10 18:13:27] AudibleScience : hi
[2015-10-10 18:13:43] AudibleScience : is anyone here?
[2015-10-10 18:39:14] peasant-wizard : I sold 500 contracts of XBT24H at 245.71, which I assumed meant I'm short, but I am in profit now?
[2015-10-10 18:40:35] peasant-wizard : At 245.83
[2015-10-10 18:43:12] zanza : XBT24H mark price is 245.68 now
[2015-10-10 18:43:23] zanza : so I think yes, you are in profit
[2015-10-10 18:44:09] zanza : look at your "Mark Price" to determine if you are ahead or behind
[2015-10-10 18:44:59] peasant-wizard : I see - thank you. What is the recent trades chart for? It's displaying a different price than mark.
[2015-10-10 18:46:51] peasant-wizard : If I'm watching the 1 minute in realtime - that isn't showing the actual market price?
[2015-10-10 19:08:55] peasant-wizard : The recent trades chart shows what people think the price will be when the contract expires?
[2015-10-10 19:37:29] Adriyelalanthomas : is the idea behind a spread
[2015-10-11 00:53:16] zanza : so how much profit could someone make on that?
[2015-10-11 03:45:38] Adriyel : if i buy 5 contracts for 249..00 and sell 5 contrracts 281.00 will i profit
[2015-10-11 04:57:20] uiop : Adriyel: yes
[2015-10-11 15:07:29] jon821098 : hi all. anyone having trouble logging in?
[2015-10-11 15:08:13] loke : jon821098: yeah, but only in safari. all good when i switched to chrome.
[2015-10-11 16:15:33] BitMEX_Sam : jon821098: We had an issue with older browsers, but I've just pushed a fix
[2015-10-11 16:40:03] jon821098 : thanks sam it is working now
[2015-10-11 17:15:12] cengel : http://i.imgur.com/4pKMIAA.png
[2015-10-11 17:15:32] cengel : if you have an open position and you want to tier orders above liquidation price it doesnt let you why?
[2015-10-11 17:19:42] DunningKruger : cengel: because you would be liquidated before it ever reaches that price while the order is still open I guess.
[2015-10-11 17:20:02] cengel : thats the point though
[2015-10-11 17:20:36] BitMEX_Wally : cengel: If you have isolate margin enabled, then I guess we should allow these orders
[2015-10-11 17:20:48] cengel : yes =)
[2015-10-11 17:20:55] BitMEX_Wally : Ok, will fix that
[2015-10-11 17:21:00] cengel : ty sir
[2015-10-11 17:24:32] cengel : Wally speaking of isolate margin how is the adjustable leverage allocation going
[2015-10-11 17:24:48] BitMEX_Wally : It's been implemented in the engine, just not exposed on the API yet
[2015-10-11 17:25:03] cengel : splendid, look forward to seeing how you ended up doing it
[2015-10-11 17:30:31] BitMEX_Wally : If you have isolated margin enable, then the API call will let you move x Satoshis of withdrawableMargin into the position
[2015-10-11 17:31:01] BitMEX_Wally : And if you have excess margin (over the initial margin requirement) you can move x Satoshis out of the position
[2015-10-11 17:34:36] cengel : good
[2015-10-11 17:34:37] BitMEX_Wally : cengel: Ok, try placing orders above the liquidation price now
[2015-10-11 17:34:48] BitMEX_Wally : Should let you if you have isolated margin enabled
[2015-10-11 17:35:08] cengel : works now
[2015-10-11 17:36:57] BitMEX_Wally : There are probably a few more risk checks which make sense for 'portfolio margining' but we can disable for fixed margin contracts
[2015-10-11 17:39:40] j8 : those checks are sort of just safeties anyway right, like if you place an order and your liquidation price changes you could have orders beyond your liquidation price
[2015-10-11 17:42:03] cengel : yea becaause the order execute wouldnt liquidate me, only the mark price change oulwd
[2015-10-11 17:43:14] BitMEX_Wally : Yeah, originally this risk check was to stop people placing orders that would be canceled (due to a margin call) before they could ever be executed
[2015-10-11 17:43:18] BitMEX_Wally : To prevent illusory orders in the book
[2015-10-11 17:44:39] cengel : so now its on Sam to interface it so the webui controls are good
[2015-10-11 17:44:55] BitMEX_Wally : Yes
[2015-10-11 17:59:22] AudibleScience : hi
[2015-10-11 18:00:21] BitMEX_Wally : AudibleScience: Hello
[2015-10-11 18:01:58] AudibleScience : I'm new... and have been doing a few baby trades just to get to know the system...
[2015-10-11 18:02:16] AudibleScience : I think it's really nice!
[2015-10-11 18:02:54] AudibleScience : who does the daily bitcoin price review by the way?
[2015-10-11 18:03:11] AudibleScience : Is it you?
[2015-10-11 18:03:20] AudibleScience : or it it Sam?
[2015-10-11 18:03:30] AudibleScience : is*
[2015-10-11 18:06:20] AudibleScience : Wally are you there?
[2015-10-11 18:16:18] BitMEX_Wally : Sorry, got distracted.
[2015-10-11 18:17:23] BitMEX_Wally : The daily Bitcoin Technical Analysis is posted on the blog by Julian Wu
[2015-10-11 18:17:58] BitMEX_Wally : Arthur does the weekly newsletter
[2015-10-11 18:55:44] AudibleScience : me too!
[2015-10-11 18:58:39] AudibleScience : So it's Julian doing those... cool.
[2015-10-11 18:59:08] AudibleScience : and yeah, Arthur's weekly newsletter is really something else!
[2015-10-11 19:01:29] AudibleScience : most comprehensive!
[2015-10-11 20:08:47] AudibleScience : anyone here at the moment?
[2015-10-11 21:08:53] AudibleScience : Are the: "Unrealised PNL" and "Realised PNL" columns displaying a real time calculation of the position against the market with and without fees respectively?
[2015-10-11 21:43:43] zanza : fees are deducted immediately on trading
[2015-10-11 21:44:06] zanza : unrealized means you haven't closed out yet, realized means you have closed out
[2015-10-11 22:50:11] AudibleScience : where does the "Mark Price" come from?
[2015-10-11 22:54:45] Gemz : i think ,last traded price, not sure tho
[2015-10-11 22:55:31] TraderStefan : No it's not last traded price, I not sure I can explain it though
[2015-10-11 22:57:23] TraderStefan : It's based off the tradeblock price with some adjustments I think
[2015-10-11 23:46:16] osheagavideo : hi if i sell xbt24 1000 248.35 and buy at 248 how much profit do i make É
[2015-10-11 23:47:20] j8 : try the calculator, top right of Order Controls
[2015-10-11 23:47:57] osheagavideo : where do i click near options
[2015-10-11 23:48:26] j8 : order controls, where you place an order
[2015-10-11 23:48:40] osheagavideo : ok sorry
[2015-10-11 23:49:54] j8 : but if you are taker on both sides of that the fees eat most of the profit
[2015-10-12 00:14:33] zanza : Mark = spot + fair basis
[2015-10-12 00:25:47] AudibleScience : thanks... but what is the "fair basis" exactly?
[2015-10-12 00:27:29] j8 : fair basis = spot*fairBasisRate*daysToExpiry/365