This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2016-10-27 23:04:26] BitMEX_Sam : Of course, high-profit is relative and percentage-based.
[2016-10-27 23:04:36] BitMEX_Sam : negamax: That's why we have ADL.
[2016-10-27 23:04:52] miramm1115 : I know, still funny for 16 contracts :-)
[2016-10-27 23:05:01] lockhedge : miramm1115: don't provide liquidity at 100x ;)
[2016-10-27 23:05:11] uwotmate : will price here tomorrow follow the spot price on poloniex, or does it follow the expected price for december 30 ?
[2016-10-27 23:05:36] BitMEX_Sam : uwotmate: It will follow expected Dec 30 price.
[2016-10-27 23:05:47] BitMEX_Sam : Of course, what that means is up for interpretation, I would expect large swings between now and then.
[2016-10-27 23:05:52] miramm1115 : lockhedge: I'm on cross but there is no one with more profit on XBJ24H I guess
[2016-10-27 23:06:29] BitMEX_Sam : miramm1115: Yeah, it's based on pure ROE.
[2016-10-27 23:06:33] BitMEX_Sam : And leverage, of course.
[2016-10-27 23:06:38] wurstgelee : a lot of blo will be shed on the altar of ZEC during the first days...
[2016-10-27 23:06:42] wurstgelee : here and at polo ;)
[2016-10-27 23:06:44] wurstgelee : *blood
[2016-10-27 23:06:57] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah this is an event. I haven't seen hype like this in forever.
[2016-10-27 23:07:04] wurstgelee : same
[2016-10-27 23:07:07] wurstgelee : completely unmatched
[2016-10-27 23:07:10] BitMEX_Sam : The buy orders at limit up are piling up.
[2016-10-27 23:07:22] wurstgelee : the reason is: zero supply at launch
[2016-10-27 23:07:23] sebaas : game of hot potatoe
[2016-10-27 23:07:24] sleger : BitMEX_Sam: being 97% of open interest on xbj7d and large unrealised profit (>7btc, 152%), only one ADL light is lit, doesnt seem likely ?
[2016-10-27 23:07:26] wurstgelee : not like these icos....eth etc
[2016-10-27 23:07:34] sebaas : has nothing to do with the actual worth/value of zcash
[2016-10-27 23:07:36] wurstgelee : completely different type of hype
[2016-10-27 23:07:48] justinlooking : 97% OF OI F*CKIN LOL
[2016-10-27 23:07:54] BitMEX_Sam : sleger: Would have to defer to Wally on that, but the weighting is on a pure trader count basis, not proportional holding.
[2016-10-27 23:07:57] sleger : XBJ7D 116337 160.4520 XBT
[2016-10-27 23:08:03] mjones : larger miners should hold their coins. wait for large orderbook and then dump into it their donzens of ZEC
[2016-10-27 23:08:09] wurstgelee : the fact that it will be listed on finex, polo and kraken on day one while the supply only 83 ZEC at the end of the day....
[2016-10-27 23:08:18] QuantFocus : BitMEX_Sam: when are withdrawals processed?
[2016-10-27 23:08:23] BitMEX_Sam : QuantFocus: Daily at 13:00 UTC
[2016-10-27 23:08:29] BitMEX_Sam : See the text on the withdrawal page.
[2016-10-27 23:08:30] QuantFocus : thanks
[2016-10-27 23:08:32] mjones : bittrex too
[2016-10-27 23:08:34] wurstgelee : uncharted territory
[2016-10-27 23:08:34] sleger : BitMEX_Sam: ok would mean that the <3% remaining are many traders who are all in profit % higher than me
[2016-10-27 23:08:38] wurstgelee : and bittrex, right
[2016-10-27 23:08:47] BitMEX_Sam : in ROE terms, likely, or are just higher-leveraged.
[2016-10-27 23:09:02] negamax : I wish zec had options instead of futures..
[2016-10-27 23:09:08] sleger : ok that's actually not so unlikely thinking about it, thanks
[2016-10-27 23:09:13] negamax : I would love to buy 1 btc puts for months to come
[2016-10-27 23:10:03] lockhedge : sleger: Wally once said one quintile equals 20% of open interest. @BitMEX_Sam
[2016-10-27 23:10:27] BitMEX_Sam : lockhedge: Will have to double-check with him. This is a deep part of the engine that I'm not familiar with.
[2016-10-27 23:11:00] jm : This is all speculation -- any derivative, options or futures, will be priced to market.
[2016-10-27 23:11:39] jm : options would have time value baked in and could cost significantly more than futures on a per-coin basis.
[2016-10-27 23:12:05] jm : And hence might be worth more, but would cost more .. everything equals out.
[2016-10-27 23:12:37] negamax : jm: that's true but options are better to play volatility than futures as you will get margin called on futures quite easily
[2016-10-27 23:12:59] lockhedge : jm: price discovery can be more efficient on derivatives markets than spot. it depends on market structural issues
[2016-10-27 23:13:22] jm : negamax: @lockhedge both true ..
[2016-10-27 23:14:08] jm : All of this stuff depends on the terms of each .. the mark to market provisions of the futures are a bit opaque, so it's hard to make a decision.
[2016-10-27 23:14:26] jm : Personally, I think anybody who thinks Zcash will be worth anything close to BTC is out of their minds
[2016-10-27 23:14:36] jm : mind* even
[2016-10-27 23:15:19] uwotmate : They put the slow start to supposedly prevent unfair instamining, but the hype totally defeats the purpose. From a miner's perspective, he doesn't care if on the first day he sells 7200 ZEC for 1000 BTC or 83 ZEC for 1000 BTC.
[2016-10-27 23:15:32] Mm bot : When is ZEC going to reset the price limit?
[2016-10-27 23:16:03] BitMEX_Greg : in about 5 hours
[2016-10-27 23:16:12] justinlooking : hmmm re:options. u could create contract on bitbet.us
[2016-10-27 23:16:50] Smartass : hey can somebody help me with this: at what time everyday can you move money out of bitmex is it 13:00 Utc? Will this work in timely manner on a stressfull day like tommorrow?
[2016-10-27 23:17:00] negamax : jm: actually mark to market is new to me in context of futures. Futures do not get marked to market they get settled and rolled.. so if market wants they can settle differently than spot
[2016-10-27 23:17:08] BitMEX_Sam : Smartass: Yes it will work. Be sure to get your request in before 13:00 UTC.
[2016-10-27 23:18:07] sleger : Smartass: be sure to not click on the link in the email it cancels the withdrawal
[2016-10-27 23:18:08] Smartass : BitMEX_Sam: how long before 13:00 1min, 5min?
[2016-10-27 23:18:24] BitMEX_Sam : As long as it's in the queue before 13:00:00 it will be processed.
[2016-10-27 23:18:53] Smartass : sleger: What i do NOT have to click but how do they know then when it accept
[2016-10-27 23:19:39] BitMEX_Sam : The email will have a link to cancel and a link to confirm. Be sure the confirm link is clicked before 13:00:00 and you'll be fine.
[2016-10-27 23:19:42] sleger : if you submit it before 13 its good
[2016-10-27 23:20:03] Smartass : BitMEX_Sam: O.K. cool
[2016-10-27 23:20:10] Smartass : sleger: thx for the warning bro
[2016-10-27 23:20:45] sleger : i have a feeling there will be one less withdrawal tomorrow
[2016-10-27 23:21:33] mjones : i have a feeling a lot than 1. ZEC rekting account balances
[2016-10-27 23:21:57] Smartass : sleger: you mean me? I will send funds now, maybe withdraw some tomorrow
[2016-10-27 23:22:01] mjones : got some brave shorters eating away at that wall
[2016-10-27 23:23:30] jm : Opinion: There will be a mass exodus of Zcash holders wanting out ASAP at the high valuation .. BTC price ^^ Zcash down
[2016-10-27 23:23:40] jm : That works against the high price
[2016-10-27 23:23:48] zecpumperIseeyou : Don't worry that wall will quickly go away, it has huge legs
[2016-10-27 23:24:12] jm : If I'm holding onto Zcash and it's priced at a 10-11B market cap .. I will want OUT of most of my holdings ASAP, like an investment bank holding IPO shares
[2016-10-27 23:24:18] futuretrader : can you not short lower than 1 zcash coin
[2016-10-27 23:26:34] sleger : yes
[2016-10-27 23:33:40] uwotmate : what effect would it have on this market if spot price on poloniex was steady at 1 btc tomorrow?
[2016-10-27 23:34:06] laisee : FOMO
[2016-10-27 23:34:28] negamax : uwotmate: unlikely, no one is going to buy and hold at 1 btc
[2016-10-27 23:34:40] Coach_Z : I think the mark price is just used for PNL and margin calculations
[2016-10-27 23:35:23] mjones : how big is the actual margin call?
[2016-10-27 23:35:44] lockhedge : 16 contracts left
[2016-10-27 23:36:03] mjones : oh not big at all
[2016-10-27 23:36:30] Coach_Z : those 16 get to buy first when the limit opens?
[2016-10-27 23:37:17] mjones : bitmex ever thought about making it so you cant open a long above a set price but shorts can close above that price
[2016-10-27 23:38:14] justinlooking : interesting
[2016-10-27 23:39:06] Coach_Z : I'm so confused about this ADL
[2016-10-27 23:39:07] uwotmate : for example, if polo price is steady at 1 btc tomorrow, would you expect price here to be 1 btc, or estimate of dec. 30 expiration price, or something else?
[2016-10-27 23:40:15] Smartass : uwotmate: a futures price is that the price of a good in the future. But whether ppl on bitmex know this and act accordingly??
[2016-10-27 23:40:40] uwotmate : someone said it should trade around expected dec. 30 price, then I wonder what significance the spot price being at 1 btc would have
[2016-10-27 23:41:16] uwotmate : assuming this was a normal rational futures market
[2016-10-27 23:41:56] miramm1115 : "rational" doesn't apply to crypto ;-)
[2016-10-27 23:42:18] uwotmate : in that scenario, 1 btc would be used as the baseline price for margin calculations?
[2016-10-27 23:43:02] futuretrader : how do i put a order for less than one zcash coin
[2016-10-27 23:43:19] zecpumperIseeyou : you can't
[2016-10-27 23:43:39] zecpumperIseeyou : or find someone willing to sell you half a future contract
[2016-10-27 23:44:22] mjones : no one is buying based on dec 30th price
[2016-10-27 23:44:51] Coach_Z : I don't understand, if you bought ZEC, and made a profit, why does ADL force you to sell?
[2016-10-27 23:44:57] mjones : cause you'd probably get margin called as price goes up. BTC breaking up
[2016-10-27 23:45:33] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 4367 @ 683.97
[2016-10-27 23:46:38] billz : damn someone with deep pockets is really pumping zcash rn
[2016-10-27 23:47:49] uwotmate : I think the only purpose of slow start is to make headlines "new zcash sells for $10000 each on launch day" Then when people go to look at price it looks comparatively cheap
[2016-10-27 23:48:39] uwotmate : no other legit reason to not start of with normal 12.5 per 2.5 minute blocks
[2016-10-27 23:49:52] lockhedge : a price crash after an ipo us usually not what you plan for a listing
[2016-10-27 23:50:07] zecpumperIseeyou : I don't see why they would want a huge price crash after the launch of their coin
[2016-10-27 23:50:20] negamax : it's not really an ipo as there's no liquidity; nothing is being sold
[2016-10-27 23:50:37] billz : i think anything above a 1000 would just be ridiculous regardless of number of coins. Miners would be tempted to sell
[2016-10-27 23:50:37] billz : zecpumperIseeyou: happens all the time
[2016-10-27 23:50:57] mjones : if you start mining right away then the few big miners paying attention get all the coins. this way the coins will be spread out more between big miners as they join in the first 30 days
[2016-10-27 23:51:15] zecpumperIseeyou : still, a slow and steady downtrend from 1btc to 0.0001 btbc is worse than 0.0001 to 1b
[2016-10-27 23:53:56] uwotmate : with the amount of hype, every miner big miner getting into zcash mining is already prepared and has been mining testnet
[2016-10-27 23:54:43] Tetsuo : zecpumperIseeyou: it´s going to look bad on the charts for a few months, i agree
[2016-10-27 23:54:44] uwotmate : so it defeats purpose of slow start, which is to give everyone a chance to get their mining setup. They already did it on testnet
[2016-10-27 23:55:08] justinlooking : " If you believe any economic data from any government globally, I have some Paycoin to sell you." haha
[2016-10-27 23:55:18] billz : can we get 100x leverage on zcash? lol
[2016-10-27 23:55:47] billz : that would be lit
[2016-10-27 23:56:51] rapidtrades : isn't it going up to 20/1 tomorrow
[2016-10-27 23:57:56] billz : oh didn't know that. That's awesome
[2016-10-27 23:59:19] QuantFocus : rapidtrades: sam said they weren't planning on it
[2016-10-27 23:59:25] QuantFocus : rapidtrades: where did you see that?
[2016-10-27 23:59:44] rapidtrades : idk some idiot said it in chat
[2016-10-27 23:59:52] billz : damn :(
[2016-10-27 23:59:53] QuantFocus : yea, pretty sure he was trollin
[2016-10-28 00:01:43] negamax : guys, something is odd at zec; hover text says liquidation for 13 contracts.. does that mean only 13 contracts be bought when on market when it comes out of circuit?
[2016-10-28 00:03:41] rapidtrades : that's a bid....u can only sell to it
[2016-10-28 00:03:42] lockhedge : negamax: very likely it leads to ADL of 13 longs
[2016-10-28 00:03:50] MCT : what time is the limit up price?
[2016-10-28 00:04:05] justinlooking : 15:43
[2016-10-28 00:04:19] rapidtrades : it's not a limit up...it's a limit
[2016-10-28 00:04:33] negamax : lockhedge: yeah not 135 right? I am confused as 135 is in red and it seems like that's the number of contracts that will go into ADL
[2016-10-28 00:04:37] rapidtrades : u idiots turned it into limit up
[2016-10-28 00:05:03] rapidtrades : negamax: prolly the rest 122 are regular bids not liq
[2016-10-28 00:05:19] lockhedge : rapidtrades: yes
[2016-10-28 00:05:24] negamax : rapidtrades: that makes sense; thanks
[2016-10-28 00:07:37] miramm1115 : almost $4 spread on stamp
[2016-10-28 00:09:26] MCT : anyone knows what time the limit is removed on ZEC?
[2016-10-28 00:12:39] Tetsuo : 8
[2016-10-28 00:12:44] aethlios : Oct 28, 12:00 UTC: Limits will be removed entirely.
[2016-10-28 00:12:55] mjones : right when i wake up.
[2016-10-28 00:13:06] lockhedge : miramm1115: and XBTUSD now has often more volume than bitstamp and okc usd together...
[2016-10-28 00:13:07] Tetsuo : lol, only idiots go to sleep
[2016-10-28 00:13:53] rapidtrades : lockhedge: that's because it's a future
[2016-10-28 00:13:59] rapidtrades : compare it to futures
[2016-10-28 00:14:32] QuantFocus : oh dang
[2016-10-28 00:14:34] poes : dumping soon
[2016-10-28 00:14:38] aethlios : finex started to compete better with other exchanges, won't let polo to cash all the volume.
[2016-10-28 00:14:39] QuantFocus : see ya 134 orders
[2016-10-28 00:14:53] miramm1115 : it's quite often for derivatives to have much higher volume than corresponding spot market
[2016-10-28 00:15:10] poes : reminder: only coindesk thinks zcash will be 1btc by the end of the year. AND THEY HAVE STAKE IN ZCASH
[2016-10-28 00:15:11] poes : Disclosure: CoinDesk is a subsidiary of Digital Currency Group, which has an ownership stake in Zcash.
[2016-10-28 00:15:15] poes : google it
[2016-10-28 00:15:17] rapidtrades : aethlios: ur an idiot if u believe their numbers
[2016-10-28 00:15:21] uwotmate : I go away for one second, what just happened?
[2016-10-28 00:15:29] negamax : uwotmate: HAHA
[2016-10-28 00:15:36] rapidtrades : bids gone, ye'r dead
[2016-10-28 00:15:36] negamax : uwotmate: sorry about caps
[2016-10-28 00:15:42] poes : the 'wall' wasjust some ppl sitting behind the the liquidated order hoping to survive until the next reset to try to make some more profit
[2016-10-28 00:15:43] negamax : rapidtrades: sold into
[2016-10-28 00:15:44] uwotmate : 100+ contracts smashed?
[2016-10-28 00:15:55] mjones : lol lot more contracts on ZEC now
[2016-10-28 00:16:08] poes : in reality everyone knows zcash is the biggest shitcoin in history. using complicated algo/crypto (that have been arround for years) doesnt make it great.
[2016-10-28 00:16:21] lockhedge : miramm1115: yeah but i guess most liquid derivatives market are marking to market (last or mid) and not to a more illiquid spot market
[2016-10-28 00:16:26] poes : its founders are known for previously failed coins.
[2016-10-28 00:16:38] QuantFocus : not biggest shitcoin, but certainly overvalued for being completely untested
[2016-10-28 00:16:48] QuantFocus : they're just pumping it via limited supply mechanism
[2016-10-28 00:17:14] QuantFocus : really smart, honestly
[2016-10-28 00:17:19] dasdfasdf : at least the technology will get a good testing at these valuations
[2016-10-28 00:17:29] poes : its founders are known for previously failed coins. A company with six people who chose themselves as the trusted members to create the genesis keys.
[2016-10-28 00:17:36] rapidtrades : how do i mine zcashes
[2016-10-28 00:17:44] poes : zcash is decentral but not trustless, so whats the point of it being decentral? the owners have
[2016-10-28 00:17:49] QuantFocus : yea, unfortunately we won't even know if the devs have infinite supply hidden in master wallet
[2016-10-28 00:17:59] QuantFocus : no way to verify number of coins in circulation
[2016-10-28 00:18:02] rapidtrades : that can't be right
[2016-10-28 00:18:07] QuantFocus : it's one of the biggest critiques of the tech
[2016-10-28 00:18:15] poes : yeah exactly
[2016-10-28 00:18:19] QuantFocus : oh, it's definitely correct
[2016-10-28 00:18:42] QuantFocus : if any one of 48 'master' wallet addresses gets compromised,the coin is susceptible to infinite undetectable supply
[2016-10-28 00:18:44] rapidtrades : can anyone confirm this mad hatter's ramblings ^^^
[2016-10-28 00:18:50] poes : google it
[2016-10-28 00:19:04] QuantFocus : or founder's addresses i suppose it is
[2016-10-28 00:19:32] uwotmate : he's almost correct, but not quite
[2016-10-28 00:19:33] QuantFocus : i think there is an article about Zcoin vs. Zcash that discusses the use of ZK-snark
[2016-10-28 00:19:40] lockhedge : rapidtrades: "Zcash enhances privacy for users by encrypting sender, amount and recipient data"
[2016-10-28 00:19:58] poes : and monero already does that
[2016-10-28 00:20:05] zen10 : How is krak, polo and finex all going to trade a tiny handful of zcash? are they just gonna trade the same one back and forth?
[2016-10-28 00:20:18] poes : amount + tx hidden
[2016-10-28 00:20:28] poes : zcash doesnt have a premine but a 'founders reward', basically the same thing but obscured
[2016-10-28 00:20:33] Stilllight : ummm
[2016-10-28 00:21:00] uwotmate : The only way the coin is susceptible to infinite undetectable supply is if ALL 6 keys of 6 different people were comprimised
[2016-10-28 00:21:12] uwotmate : if just 1 of the 6 keys was properly destroyed, then it's good
[2016-10-28 00:21:19] QuantFocus : i might be incorrect with some of the technicalities, but the fact remains that all wallet balances are obscured, so an infinite supply could be created with no one knowing
[2016-10-28 00:21:45] negamax : uwotmate: why did they made infinite supply possible? shouldn;t limit be enforced in protocol?
[2016-10-28 00:21:47] lockhedge : uwotmate: or if the system does not work as it supposed to (after an attack)
[2016-10-28 00:21:52] miramm1115 : lockhedge: okc is already marking to last, impact mid price marking here is kind of similar. the bigger problem with illiquid spot is that it's difficult for MMs to hedge larger positions if they are doing standard delta hedge
[2016-10-28 00:21:53] QuantFocus : uwotmate: thanks...i thought i read that just a single wallet would need to be comp'd, but maybe it's all
[2016-10-28 00:21:55] poes : all 6 people are one company, making it only technologically decentral
[2016-10-28 00:22:04] negamax : zcash is too hyped up
[2016-10-28 00:22:19] uwotmate : and they had 6 people use extremely paranoid computer security to generate and destroy the keys with observers and cameras present for a couple of the key creation/deletions
[2016-10-28 00:22:42] zen10 : negamax: true but might as well enjoy the ride.
[2016-10-28 00:22:55] negamax : zen10: true :D
[2016-10-28 00:23:15] rapidtrades : zen10: that's what the nazis said to the jews when they loaded them up
[2016-10-28 00:23:23] rapidtrades : ENJOY THE RIDE
[2016-10-28 00:23:30] QuantFocus : damn
[2016-10-28 00:23:30] QuantFocus : brutal
[2016-10-28 00:23:32] negamax : rapidtrades: dark humor..
[2016-10-28 00:23:56] Stilllight : guys
[2016-10-28 00:24:00] Stilllight : 0.75BTC
[2016-10-28 00:24:01] Stilllight : seriously
[2016-10-28 00:24:21] zecpumperIseeyou : and here goes the wall, byebye
[2016-10-28 00:24:35] poes : haha yeah, 30dec it will be the biggest coin after only bitcoin and ethereum, really ? hahahahahahaha
[2016-10-28 00:25:24] Stilllight : noon that is entirely possible!
[2016-10-28 00:25:31] Stilllight : but 0.8!!!!
[2016-10-28 00:25:50] QuantFocus : if you guys really believe the hype, might be an opportunity in dash/xmr shorts
[2016-10-28 00:25:56] lockhedge : miramm1115: does a standard delta hedge really work at XBTUSD, aren't hedging costs (and risks) anyway too high? (except for orders deep in the book)
[2016-10-28 00:26:27] negamax : someone with deep btc pocket can twist this market; creating margin calls on both sides.. it's too shallow
[2016-10-28 00:26:43] rapidtrades : lockhedge: i thought bots only hedged on major price moves?
[2016-10-28 00:27:19] uwotmate : now is the time to buy the dip
[2016-10-28 00:27:48] negamax : uwotmate: what dip? no way zcash is more valuable than xmr
[2016-10-28 00:28:32] Stilllight : ummm
[2016-10-28 00:28:34] Stilllight : guys soooo
[2016-10-28 00:28:42] poes : xmr has everything zcash has, except all the crazy downsides hahaha
[2016-10-28 00:28:48] Stilllight : what is the minimum purchase for a cash future
[2016-10-28 00:28:57] rapidtrades : if the supply is small enough, prices could go above bitcoin
[2016-10-28 00:28:58] miramm1115 : lockhedge: no, I don't believe it does in this market. it was better when finex had more volume and lower requirements for 0% maker fee
[2016-10-28 00:29:01] rapidtrades : remember 42?
[2016-10-28 00:29:51] negamax : rapidtrades: that's true; happened with so many coins but there was no future market for them
[2016-10-28 00:30:35] rapidtrades : future supply will get discounted but these markets are terribly inefficient
[2016-10-28 00:31:06] rapidtrades : bitcoin halvening wasn't factored in until 2-3 months before it happened
[2016-10-28 00:31:42] negamax : yeah it will be fun to watch zcoin price swings
[2016-10-28 00:32:01] negamax : forever falling after the first day ;)
[2016-10-28 00:32:12] miramm1115 : lockhedge: I think big MMs hold enough bitcoin to simply hedge less % of their capital instead of going long on spot
[2016-10-28 00:32:33] uwotmate : everybody out of ammo?
[2016-10-28 00:34:19] sleger : zcash on sale !
[2016-10-28 00:35:33] negamax : sleger: that statement may become true at 1/100th of the price
[2016-10-28 00:36:18] Stilllight : i think it is time to short...?
[2016-10-28 00:38:21] poes : lol @ 24 contracts again
[2016-10-28 00:38:47] poes : maybe just one last pump ;)
[2016-10-28 00:39:08] zen10 : @Stilllight it's going to 1.17 at 04:00
[2016-10-28 00:39:19] mjones : 3 hours 20 minutes
[2016-10-28 00:39:31] zen10 : mjones: :D
[2016-10-28 00:39:32] zecpumperIseeyou : before launch ?
[2016-10-28 00:39:59] lockhedge : miramm1115: if you don't hedge at all, you have around 30% more capital to use for market making and less risk. think about your return, does make sense to hedge at all?
[2016-10-28 00:40:03] zen10 : zecpumperIseeyou: just to get you warmed up for launch
[2016-10-28 00:40:46] zen10 : hi bid reached again
[2016-10-28 00:40:50] French_Canadian : Admin - any you can cancel my withdrawal?
[2016-10-28 00:41:00] French_Canadian : any way?
[2016-10-28 00:41:05] Coach_Z : who just placed all the short orders?
[2016-10-28 00:41:34] miramm1115 : lockhedge: I'm not doing straight hedging, I just skew quotes on different markets to keep balanced position
[2016-10-28 00:42:32] lockhedge : miramm1115: ok, didn't know the term "skew" but i guess that's what i'm doing as well.
[2016-10-28 00:43:38] miramm1115 : lockhedge: you are doing it on a single market but you can do similar approach across all markets you MM
[2016-10-28 00:44:45] lockhedge : miramm1115: yes, and i have a core long position with my bitcoin inventory, you are probably making ROE on USD...
[2016-10-28 00:44:52] miramm1115 : you will get additional profit from playing inverse vs spot as well
[2016-10-28 00:46:20] miramm1115 : yes, I use USD as a base, not bitcoin
[2016-10-28 00:48:00] French_Canadian : hey guys, do you think bitmex can cancel a withdrawal request?
[2016-10-28 00:48:30] maker101 : French_Canadian: Scroll down and click cancel? https://www.bitmex.com/app/wallet
[2016-10-28 00:48:36] negamax : French_Canadian: you should be able to do it from account tab
[2016-10-28 00:49:17] French_Canadian : wow thx guys, just did
[2016-10-28 00:50:38] kryptopojken : can someone explain why the Mark Price on XBTUSD is $3 below the last price?
[2016-10-28 00:51:07] kryptopojken : it says my position is in profit, but it's not if I close it in the market last price
[2016-10-28 00:52:18] BitMEX_Arthur : kryptopojken: https://www.bitmex.com/app/swapsGuide
[2016-10-28 00:52:56] BitMEX_Arthur : Read that to get a better understanding of the mark price, mark price is based on spot + funding, the actual swap price can trade wherever, but the funding charged is based on the premium or discount of swap price vs. spot
[2016-10-28 00:53:12] kryptopojken : thanks
[2016-10-28 00:53:23] kryptopojken : so the PNL isnt correct anyways
[2016-10-28 00:53:28] kryptopojken : if I were to close it right now
[2016-10-28 00:54:21] BitMEX_Arthur : Unrealised pnl is based on the mark price, but realised is always based on actual executiongs
[2016-10-28 00:54:28] BitMEX_Arthur : executions
[2016-10-28 00:54:37] kryptopojken : gotcha, thanks
[2016-10-28 00:55:22] Samus : how can i close a contract?
[2016-10-28 00:56:56] lockhedge : miramm1115: hedging a long position (buying spot) is not the expensive/risky part. how do you cover a short position in the most liquid derivatives market as largest mm?
[2016-10-28 00:58:00] BitMEX_Arthur : Samus: Look at the positions tab, there is a close position button at the far right. Also if you bought try selling, and if you sold try buying. That will also close your position.
[2016-10-28 00:58:34] lockhedge : miramm1115: eh, sorry. replace "long" with "short" :)
[2016-10-28 01:03:11] maker101 : BitMEX_Arthur: Does the close button place limit or market order?
[2016-10-28 01:03:45] French_Canadian : zcash gonna crash soooon
[2016-10-28 01:04:08] BitMEX_Arthur : maker101: Put a price in the input box, then click Close that will be a limit order, if you click the market button that will be a market order
[2016-10-28 01:04:24] maker101 : French_Canadian: It could also go up too :)
[2016-10-28 01:04:40] maker101 : BitMEX_Arthur: Yeah ok so close is limit - cheers
[2016-10-28 01:06:12] French_Canadian : maker101: don't jinx it lol
[2016-10-28 01:07:03] kay : BitMEX_Arthur: zec has limit removed?
[2016-10-28 01:07:13] BitMEX_Greg : kay: No limit is still there
[2016-10-28 01:07:19] nick17 : immediately after placing new buy order, receiving 'order canceled', why please?
[2016-10-28 01:07:40] BitMEX_Greg : nick17: Are you trying to buy ZEC?
[2016-10-28 01:07:46] kay : @BitMEX_Greg when it will be removed?
[2016-10-28 01:07:56] nick17 : BitMEX_Greg: yes
[2016-10-28 01:08:02] BitMEX_Greg : kay: `Oct 28, 12:00 UTC: Limits will be removed entirely.`
[2016-10-28 01:08:17] BitMEX_Greg : nick17: It is because it has hit its limit up price, you cannot buy past this price
[2016-10-28 01:09:07] QuantFocus : and you really don't want to anyway
[2016-10-28 01:09:20] French_Canadian : ZEC is falling!
[2016-10-28 01:10:34] nick17 : BitMEX_Greg: in which time frame is limit up price being calculated (e.g. 24h?)
[2016-10-28 01:10:39] vanhieu01 : hello everyone
[2016-10-28 01:10:46] maker101 : French_Canadian: That was me lol. We will see what happens when it hits Polo. We will probably be instantly liquidated. Such is Bitmex lol
[2016-10-28 01:10:49] vanhieu01 : how is Bitmex fee
[2016-10-28 01:11:26] QuantFocus : vanhieu01: comparable to other exchanges
[2016-10-28 01:11:39] QuantFocus : just bear in mind that you are trading higher notional with leverage
[2016-10-28 01:11:44] BitMEX_Greg : nick17: every 8 hours, 04:00 UTC, 12:00 UTC, 20:00 UTC
[2016-10-28 01:11:54] uwotmate : I don't see any spot to input 2fa code on withdrawal page
[2016-10-28 01:11:54] BitMEX_Greg : vanhieu01: https://www.bitmex.com/app/fees
[2016-10-28 01:11:58] QuantFocus : so you fee as a percent of collateral is higher, if you utilize that leverage
[2016-10-28 01:12:18] BitMEX_Greg : uwotmate: do you have 2fa enabled on your account?
[2016-10-28 01:12:26] uwotmate : yep
[2016-10-28 01:12:45] vanhieu01 : thanks you
[2016-10-28 01:12:48] uwotmate : 2FA Token is required and did not match.
[2016-10-28 01:12:58] uwotmate : but there's no place to input 2fa token that I can see
[2016-10-28 01:13:20] BitMEX_Greg : uwotmate: `Two-Factor Token` it is under the `Bitcoin Network Fee (XBT)`
[2016-10-28 01:13:58] BitMEX_Greg : uwotmate: if you keep having issues, please submit a support ticket and send us a screenshot
[2016-10-28 01:14:11] nick17 : BitMEX_Greg: Is there an option to submit buy order to queue?
[2016-10-28 01:16:09] uwotmate : I try to logout and log back in
[2016-10-28 01:17:13] uwotmate : now the 2fa box appeared
[2016-10-28 01:25:24] BitMEX_Arthur : nick17: Yes you can submit a limit buy order as long as it is not above the limit up price for the current session
[2016-10-28 01:34:05] nick17 : BitMEX_Arthur: Thanks. Where can I see the current limit up price?
[2016-10-28 01:36:40] BitMEX_Arthur : https://www.bitmex.com/app/contract/ZECZ16
[2016-10-28 01:41:38] zen10 : ...and we're back to the limit up price.
[2016-10-28 01:42:37] XBT_Saver : hey, why do positions not show up on the big chart anymore? They did before no?
[2016-10-28 01:43:35] frosas : when does limit up reset?
[2016-10-28 01:46:14] BitMEX_Arthur : frosas: The price may not 25% above or below the last price at the last session close
[2016-10-28 01:46:32] BitMEX_Arthur : So in about 2 hours, the limit up will be increased 25% and you may buy up to that level
[2016-10-28 01:46:38] sleger : no
[2016-10-28 01:46:50] sleger : 50%
[2016-10-28 01:46:57] BitMEX_Arthur : yes you are correct
[2016-10-28 01:47:05] sleger : as usual
[2016-10-28 01:47:20] frosas : Thanks
[2016-10-28 01:47:25] BitMEX_Arthur : hmm should we pull the tapes on that claim :smirk:
[2016-10-28 01:47:57] sleger : careful what you may find ... ;)
[2016-10-28 01:48:43] BitMEX_Arthur : That what the thai lady said to me last night
[2016-10-28 01:48:47] BitMEX_Arthur : That's
[2016-10-28 01:49:17] QuantFocus : we should go 5x leverage when the limits are removed
[2016-10-28 01:49:18] sleger : asia is dangerous !
[2016-10-28 01:50:24] miramm1115 : you sure she was a lady?
[2016-10-28 01:50:47] BitMEX_Greg : BitMEX_Arthur: You know what you were looking for..
[2016-10-28 01:52:10] BitMEX_Arthur : I have always liked the pick and mix
[2016-10-28 01:52:36] BitMEX_Arthur : QuantFocus: Don't worry we know what y'all want the leverage will go up when appropriate
[2016-10-28 01:54:14] QuantFocus : :thumbsup:
[2016-10-28 02:07:51] zen10 : BitMEX_Arthur: when a contract time period is up, the contracts settle up at the index price, or do they stay opened and get bumped to the next timeperiod.
[2016-10-28 02:12:11] BitMEX_Arthur : zen10: Settle at the index price
[2016-10-28 02:13:08] numero : BitMEX_Arthur: if multiple orders are placed at the limit, do they fill in the order they are placed at? seems like I am being bumped down
[2016-10-28 02:13:40] sleger : @numero someone explained earlier it depends on your color
[2016-10-28 02:13:44] zen10 : numero: there are hidden orders. i asked that earlier.
[2016-10-28 02:14:02] zen10 : sleger: lol
[2016-10-28 02:14:13] numero : aha, thank you both
[2016-10-28 02:14:48] numero : FOMO :)
[2016-10-28 02:15:06] zen10 : you can see the hidden option under the "available balance" on the left
[2016-10-28 02:16:10] zen10 : BitMEX_Arthur: do hidden orders pay the same maker fee?
[2016-10-28 02:16:57] BitMEX_Greg : zen10: Hidden orders always pay taker fee
[2016-10-28 02:17:18] sleger : with more customers, come more repeated questions
[2016-10-28 02:18:49] rapidtrades : sleger: did u get fired?
[2016-10-28 02:19:00] sleger : ?
[2016-10-28 02:19:04] rapidtrades : or quit? u spend a lot of time here lately
[2016-10-28 02:19:13] sleger : no
[2016-10-28 02:19:34] sleger : maybe winter weather effect
[2016-10-28 02:20:05] rapidtrades : maybe...only it's f*cking autumn
[2016-10-28 02:21:41] fiq : i dont get it, zcash order value is 0.7850 and cost is 0.3961, what is value and cost?
[2016-10-28 02:22:10] zen10 : sleger: did u get fired?
[2016-10-28 02:22:20] fiq : does it mean the price of zcah is at 0.785 btc?
[2016-10-28 02:22:23] zen10 : or quit?
[2016-10-28 02:22:41] sleger : no
[2016-10-28 02:23:18] fiq : BitMEX_Greg: why does it say that my order is canceled when i order zcash?
[2016-10-28 02:23:31] jm : fiq: price is 1/2 of ~.785
[2016-10-28 02:23:38] zen10 : fiq: that's a good question
[2016-10-28 02:23:40] rapidtrades : sleger: are u sure you didn't get fired?
[2016-10-28 02:23:46] rapidtrades : or quit?
[2016-10-28 02:23:54] sleger : 'no
[2016-10-28 02:23:58] zen10 : rapidtrades: lol
[2016-10-28 02:24:05] BitMEX_Greg : fiq: are you trying to buy?
[2016-10-28 02:24:13] zen10 : sleger: why can't i place a god damn order? sleger?
[2016-10-28 02:24:46] fiq : BitMEX_Greg: yes im trying tobuy, i have around 0.4 btc
[2016-10-28 02:25:07] rapidtrades : sleger: did u recover from ur breast implants surgery?
[2016-10-28 02:25:11] BitMEX_Greg : fiq: The contract has hit the limit up price of 0.783768. You will not be able to buy above this price
[2016-10-28 02:25:28] zen10 : rapidtrades: did he lose his job?
[2016-10-28 02:25:39] zen10 : rapidtrades: i heard that
[2016-10-28 02:25:46] rapidtrades : yeah me too
[2016-10-28 02:25:57] fiq : BitMEX_Greg: so does this mean that i cant get zcash?
[2016-10-28 02:25:59] sleger : rapidtrades: ask arthur he likes to touch everything
[2016-10-28 02:26:01] zen10 : rapidtrades: maybe we should ask him
[2016-10-28 02:26:03] rapidtrades : I also heard he's trying to get into softcore porn now.....
[2016-10-28 02:26:05] rapidtrades : AS A WOMAN
[2016-10-28 02:26:22] aethlios : fiq: wait 90 minutes
[2016-10-28 02:26:24] zen10 : rapidtrades: that's where the money's at these days.
[2016-10-28 02:26:34] rapidtrades : true
[2016-10-28 02:26:35] BitMEX_Greg : fiq: You will need to wait until the limit resets in about 1.5 hours
[2016-10-28 02:27:01] rapidtrades : man i wanna see the madness again but i gotta sleep
[2016-10-28 02:27:04] zen10 : aethlios: yes wait 90 minutes and then you'll have one minute to race to buy some contracts before we're at the limit again. 1minute last time.
[2016-10-28 02:27:31] rapidtrades : tbf 1min is a lot
[2016-10-28 02:27:35] zen10 : rapidtrades: i'm staying awake just to watch the green candle on my giant screen
[2016-10-28 02:27:39] rapidtrades : prolly be over in 15 sec now
[2016-10-28 02:27:51] aethlios : zen10: in 10 hours limits will stop, so you can buy at 5 or 10 btc price.
[2016-10-28 02:28:12] zen10 : aethlios: can't wait
[2016-10-28 02:28:38] rapidtrades : so basically if I stay up it's free money huh
[2016-10-28 02:29:24] French_Canadian : BitMEX_Greg: Will Zcash be release on Poloniex before it is released here?
[2016-10-28 02:29:33] zen10 : rapidtrades: what could possibly go wrong. its free money.
[2016-10-28 02:29:49] BitMEX_Greg : French_Canadian: What do you mean released?
[2016-10-28 02:30:51] Stilllight : what is free money?
[2016-10-28 02:30:59] mjones : get ready for zcash pump https://i.imgur.com/HmNxYOK.jpg
[2016-10-28 02:31:08] zen10 : Buys are stacking up again. that many contracts takes us to the limit easily
[2016-10-28 02:31:26] Stilllight : umm
[2016-10-28 02:31:37] Stilllight : what limit?
[2016-10-28 02:31:53] maker101 : BitMEX_Greg: Is it not possible for me to close my Zcash short? :P
[2016-10-28 02:32:17] rapidtrades : man that's rough
[2016-10-28 02:32:23] zen10 : in 1.5 hours @Stilllight the bid limit goes up to 1.17btc per contract. right now it's .7837
[2016-10-28 02:32:29] aethlios : bulls can you hake it to 5 btc price for zcash?
[2016-10-28 02:32:36] fiq : wow i cant believe its so hard to get zcash even if its just futures
[2016-10-28 02:32:41] BitMEX_Greg : maker101: You can submit limit order buys at the limit price, but unfortunately you will need to wait until the limit expires in about 90 mins
[2016-10-28 02:32:49] Stilllight : zen10: bid limit?
[2016-10-28 02:33:15] rapidtrades : 0.783768 < limit price
[2016-10-28 02:33:18] zen10 : Stilllight: check out the announcement. top right bullhorn icon
[2016-10-28 02:33:19] aethlios : zcash unlimited in 10 hours, wish you a happy pump journey.
[2016-10-28 02:33:45] zen10 : aethlios: imma buy a porsch
[2016-10-28 02:33:57] zen : What's the exact time that the limit will expire? 12pm CTT? (Central Trollbox Time)
[2016-10-28 02:33:59] mjones : shorting the ZEC top will be sweet till you get auto closed out
[2016-10-28 02:34:22] Stilllight : Ok but
[2016-10-28 02:34:23] zen10 : 04:00 UTC i believe
[2016-10-28 02:34:32] maker101 : This feels a bit shit lol
[2016-10-28 02:34:39] Stilllight : I don't get it. If I was to buy or sell a cash future now
[2016-10-28 02:34:44] Stilllight : how does the limit affect me
[2016-10-28 02:34:46] aethlios : zen10: http://www.mini911.com/porsche-997-gt3-cup-n%C2%B0-28-1/43-minichamps-wap02012316.html
[2016-10-28 02:34:53] maker101 : Might as well be liquidated already
[2016-10-28 02:35:25] Stilllight : also what is free money?
[2016-10-28 02:35:36] rapidtrades : nothing
[2016-10-28 02:35:45] zen : Send me 1 btc and I'll tell you.
[2016-10-28 02:35:49] rapidtrades : noone said anything about free $$$
[2016-10-28 02:36:02] zen10 : Stilllight: like when you're walking down the street and you find some money on the ground.
[2016-10-28 02:36:31] Stilllight : can someone explain the limit to me
[2016-10-28 02:36:49] zen : like a penny, in the middle of the road.
[2016-10-28 02:36:54] zen10 : Stilllight: or youre holding a bunch of ETH and suddenly it forks and you're like. wtf? ETC?
[2016-10-28 02:37:13] rapidtrades : Stilllight: there's a 25% limit to price every 8 hrs
[2016-10-28 02:37:16] zen10 : free money. get some
[2016-10-28 02:37:25] fiq : it means that zcash is going to the moooooon
[2016-10-28 02:37:28] zen10 : rapidtrades: i think it's 50% now
[2016-10-28 02:37:36] Stilllight : rapidtrades: That doesn't mean anything to me
[2016-10-28 02:37:37] rapidtrades : no way
[2016-10-28 02:37:44] Stilllight : guys I am used to just normal trading
[2016-10-28 02:37:49] rapidtrades : Stilllight: it's a bitmex imposed limit
[2016-10-28 02:37:58] Stilllight : I don't understand the limit price and how it affects futures
[2016-10-28 02:38:00] rapidtrades : it's stupid that's what it is
[2016-10-28 02:38:07] Stilllight : imposed limit on what
[2016-10-28 02:38:38] zen10 : Let's make bitmex great again. Drop the limits
[2016-10-28 02:38:50] chromaticcr1 : zen10: yes it will on the next session
[2016-10-28 02:38:52] maker101 : so.............................. I have a limit order set at the limit price along with 61 others
[2016-10-28 02:39:01] Coach_Z : so, 1.174 is the next limit?
[2016-10-28 02:39:03] chromaticcr1 : https://blog.bitmex.com/site_announcement/preparation-for-zcash-launch-limit-notice/
[2016-10-28 02:39:14] zen10 : Coach_Z: so i hear
[2016-10-28 02:39:33] Stilllight : is it a limit on leverage?
[2016-10-28 02:39:35] maker101 : what will happen here?
[2016-10-28 02:39:46] Coach_Z : sucks when people get auto deleveraged
[2016-10-28 02:39:48] fiq : anybody heard about november pump? what does it mean?
[2016-10-28 02:40:10] Coach_Z : anyone get auto deleveraged last round?
[2016-10-28 02:40:25] zen10 : fiq: oh isn't that when btc goes to the moon. it always happens before the holidays
[2016-10-28 02:40:39] Stilllight : zen10: Can you explain what the limit means?
[2016-10-28 02:41:03] rapidtrades : ^^^ link above
[2016-10-28 02:41:30] Stilllight : it doesn't explain what the limit means
[2016-10-28 02:41:48] rapidtrades : yes, yes it does
[2016-10-28 02:42:04] zen10 : Stilllight: it's a limit on how high you can bid. See the link. I'ts in the link. the link
[2016-10-28 02:42:15] chromaticcr1 : Stilllight: limit measn you cant place bid (buy) over the limit up price during the session (of 8 hours), vice versa for limit low
[2016-10-28 02:42:29] Stilllight : they are imposing ''limit up and limit down prices on ZEC16
[2016-10-28 02:42:55] Stilllight : is there a video I can watch on how futures trading works
[2016-10-28 02:43:03] Stilllight : obviously there are things I don't seem to know
[2016-10-28 02:43:21] rapidtrades : this is a one time case
[2016-10-28 02:43:30] Stilllight : rihgt
[2016-10-28 02:43:39] Stilllight : but if i place an order on the market
[2016-10-28 02:43:59] Stilllight : i can just bet it will go higher or lower no?
[2016-10-28 02:44:07] Stilllight : then i don't need to worry about limits
[2016-10-28 02:44:12] chromaticcr1 : http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+futures+trading+works
[2016-10-28 02:44:25] zen10 : @Stilllight you're crackin me up.
[2016-10-28 02:45:07] fiq : what if 1 zcash is 10btc? is it possible?
[2016-10-28 02:45:08] numero : this is wild speculation on something that doesn't exist yet . . . special case indeed
[2016-10-28 02:45:10] chromaticcr1 : "This mechanism prevents deep-pocketed traders from easily manipulating prices & causing unnecessary liquidations." @Stilllight
[2016-10-28 02:45:12] maker101 : I have a short I can't close on Zcash
[2016-10-28 02:45:21] maker101 : This is like.. powerless
[2016-10-28 02:45:22] rapidtrades : Stilllight: limit order it's different from exchange imposed price limits
[2016-10-28 02:45:22] zen10 : i like to show up at a construction site and say, so i just take this jackhammer and point it somewhere right?
[2016-10-28 02:45:27] chromaticcr1 : maker101: you can make it 2x leverage (cross)
[2016-10-28 02:45:53] rapidtrades : maker101: place it at bid and hope for the best
[2016-10-28 02:45:56] chromaticcr1 : maker101: so when the time finally comes (75 minutes to go), you can automatically close your position
[2016-10-28 02:46:03] Stilllight : so the change is imposing an artificial price limit?
[2016-10-28 02:46:14] rapidtrades : yes
[2016-10-28 02:46:20] Stilllight : oooooo
[2016-10-28 02:46:34] Coach_Z : Any ZEC longs hit the ADL and get liquidated?
[2016-10-28 02:47:00] Stilllight : how are people saying this is allowing easy money
[2016-10-28 02:47:54] chromaticcr1 : you'll know in 73 minutes, just place some sell orders ;)
[2016-10-28 02:48:12] Stilllight : well there is nothing stopping the price from going down
[2016-10-28 02:48:19] Stilllight : right now
[2016-10-28 02:48:22] shapeshifter : Coach_Z: yes me
[2016-10-28 02:48:24] Stilllight : which means...
[2016-10-28 02:48:34] Stilllight : but there is something stopping the price from going up
[2016-10-28 02:48:53] Stilllight : so do I just buy now and then sell when the orders all go through?
[2016-10-28 02:49:39] maker101 : so are you saying i just try and close it when the time comes? what is the cross leverage? :P
[2016-10-28 02:49:40] numero : oh snap, I got one!
[2016-10-28 02:50:15] numero : maker101: can i sell you this?
[2016-10-28 02:50:17] French_Canadian : BitMEX_Greg: Previously, I meant: Do you know the approx release time for ZEC on Polo?
[2016-10-28 02:50:34] zen : That's a mistake. Please sell back to market.
[2016-10-28 02:51:30] BitMEX_Arthur : French_Canadian: hard to know, Genesis block is around 13-14 UTC. But where will any supply come from? I don't see how you will be able to trade much of anything on any spot exchange for a few weeks
[2016-10-28 02:51:59] Stilllight : so there is a huge buy wall right now no?
[2016-10-28 02:52:22] zen10 : BitMEX_Arthur: won't there be a couple hundred mined within 24h of genesis?
[2016-10-28 02:52:24] maker101 : Can you please confirm the next max of Zcash so I can at least leave enough margin to avoid being liquidated?
[2016-10-28 02:53:08] BitMEX_Arthur : You can view here https://www.bitmex.com/app/contract/ZECZ16
[2016-10-28 02:53:11] maker101 : Liq Price is 1.28 at the moment. I am hoping that will cover it. If not I might as well remove all of the margin :)
[2016-10-28 02:53:24] Coach_Z : shapeshifter: what did you do?
[2016-10-28 02:53:26] chromaticcr1 : zen10: There will be 4.14 coins in circulation in the first 24 hours
[2016-10-28 02:53:33] Coach_Z : how much did it hurt?
[2016-10-28 02:53:34] Stilllight : 104
[2016-10-28 02:53:48] mjones : BitMEX_Arthur: why not let shorts close on ZEC? and just restrict the longs from open
[2016-10-28 02:54:11] zen10 : chromaticcr1: 4.14? that's not very much. going to the moon.