This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2016-10-14 16:42:15] BitMEX_Greg : What do you mean by maintenance fee?
[2016-10-14 16:43:13] kay : fee for holding margins for more than a day
[2016-10-14 16:43:50] BitMEX_Greg : kay: ZECZ16 is a traditional future. It does not have a funding charge as opposed to the swap contracts if thats what you mean
[2016-10-14 16:45:39] kay : thanks
[2016-10-14 16:50:34] sleger : BitMEX_Greg: I see the formula but I am talking rational here
[2016-10-14 16:51:34] BitMEX_Greg : How do you mean? Can you please submit a support ticket outlining everything @sleger
[2016-10-14 16:52:02] sleger : hold on, I am explaining...
[2016-10-14 16:52:18] BitMEX_Greg : Ok best to submit the ticket plz
[2016-10-14 16:54:11] sleger : I understand I have to pay interest rate differential, this is around 0.03%, and the premium during those 8 hours was -0.08%. The sum of both is negative so it just doesnt seem normal to be charged for being long in that case
[2016-10-14 16:54:36] sleger : I'm sure the math based on the formulas you made up adds up, I am not arguing that.
[2016-10-14 16:57:41] messiaen8844 : you got bitMEX'ed :D
[2016-10-14 16:58:53] messiaen8844 : sledger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdvTkddp1F0
[2016-10-14 17:02:51] BitMEX_Greg : sleger: Ok I think I understand your question, let me take a look at the math
[2016-10-14 17:03:48] sleger : sure, but the math is good, there is no bug, i just disagree that longs should be paying funding fee when premium is negative more than rates differential
[2016-10-14 17:37:07] BitMEX_Greg : sleger: You said you were long for the Base, Quote and Premium occurring at 14/10/16 00:00:00 (premium was -0.0834%)
[2016-10-14 17:37:13] Chimpindeed : BitMEX_Greg: Hey Greg, I put an XMR trade in yesterday that isnt registering though its marked on my order history as filled...BL
[2016-10-14 17:37:50] BitMEX_Greg : sleger: So the funding for that period is actually -0.0334%, you should have received interest for that.
[2016-10-14 17:38:22] BitMEX_Greg : Chimpindeed: I'll take a look, can you please take a screenshot and submit a support ticket?
[2016-10-14 17:38:40] Chimpindeed : ok to what address do I send it?
[2016-10-14 17:39:53] BitMEX_Greg : sleger: I think what you are seeing is that the Interest rates and the Premium is 8 hours behind the funding. So the funding that occurs at 08:00:00 is using the numbers of 00:00:00, so if you calculate the forthcoming interest at 16:00:00 then it will be using the numbers from 08:00:00
[2016-10-14 17:40:21] BitMEX_Greg : Chimpindeed: You can go to the freshdesk site at: https://bitmex.freshdesk.com/helpdesk or support@bitmex.com
[2016-10-14 17:42:47] BitMEX_Greg : Chimpindeed:got it, looking into it now for you
[2016-10-14 17:52:55] Chimpindeed : Thanx
[2016-10-14 18:10:13] BitMEX_Greg : Chimpindeed: replied
[2016-10-14 18:35:42] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 107450 @ 638.28 **REKTosaurus** :slot_machine: :moneybag: :fire:
[2016-10-14 18:36:00] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 5 @ 638.30
[2016-10-14 18:40:34] justinlooking : would we know if there was adl?
[2016-10-14 18:42:12] sleger : BitMEX_Greg: from my trade history : 2016-10-14 00:00:00 ETHXBT Funding xxxx 0.0xxxx x XBT 0.0353% 0.025981 XBT <- that is fee paid
[2016-10-14 18:44:33] habibi : 73 btc position, i bet u used to have bigger ones
[2016-10-14 18:44:50] BitMEX_Sam : sleger: Rate was published and exchanged at `0.0353%`
[2016-10-14 18:45:22] REKT : Liquidated long on `LSKXBT`: Sell 1600 @ 0.000302
[2016-10-14 18:46:10] BitMEX_Sam : Calculated based on data from the 8 hour period before it, so from 12:00 UTC to 20:00 UTC, then charged at 04:00 UTC
[2016-10-14 18:46:55] BitMEX_Greg : sleger: If you read my msg then I am referring to the period where the funding rate was -0.0334% at 2016-10-14 08:00:00
[2016-10-14 18:47:11] BitMEX_Greg : If you were long over this period then you would have received funding
[2016-10-14 18:48:00] sleger : ok i am talking about the charge before that (at 00:00utc)
[2016-10-14 18:48:22] BitMEX_Greg : Sure, that was a positive funding period (0.0353%)
[2016-10-14 18:48:38] sleger : which value of .ETHXBTPI8H is used for that funding rate ?
[2016-10-14 18:48:47] BitMEX_Greg : So you will get charged for that. The premium during that period was 0.0853%
[2016-10-14 18:49:04] sleger : ok so this one : 2016-10-13 16:00:00 .ETHXBTPI8H 0.0853%
[2016-10-14 18:49:09] BitMEX_Greg : Correct
[2016-10-14 18:49:24] sleger : got it, the timestamps difference made it confusing but i understand, all good thanks
[2016-10-14 18:49:57] BitMEX_Greg : Yeah threw me off at first too
[2016-10-14 18:51:12] sleger : maybe if you show the interest rate differential and the premium in the same row as total funding fee on that page you linked earlier it would be easier to check and you'd get less questions about it
[2016-10-14 18:52:17] BitMEX_Greg : sleger: Think you're the first one, but yeah maybe we can rearrange it better
[2016-10-14 19:08:51] rapidtrades : sleger: sup homie
[2016-10-14 19:09:24] sleger : not much
[2016-10-14 19:12:36] rapidtrades : Yuan inching closer to the lows seen at teh start of 2016
[2016-10-14 19:13:33] sleger : yes, however i think people might be hoping too much bitcoin impact from that
[2016-10-14 19:14:02] rapidtrades : i agree....it seems like the Yuan devaluation only gives a short-term boost
[2016-10-14 19:14:37] rapidtrades : i'm net long but not hoping for much from this rally
[2016-10-14 19:16:40] sleger : same long btc and eth
[2016-10-14 19:17:04] sleger : short zcrash
[2016-10-14 19:17:53] sleger : andi had a short ETC but with those stupid weeklies my position went away... I already asked a few times for monthlies, but....
[2016-10-14 19:23:14] rapidtrades : yeah i never liked weekly even when i traded on okc
[2016-10-14 19:24:49] arbitrage001 : yuan will have bigger impact on btc than most will think
[2016-10-14 19:24:52] rapidtrades : still no hints of quantos coming back?
[2016-10-14 19:24:56] arbitrage001 : my opinion
[2016-10-14 19:25:31] arbitrage001 : and china central bank pretty much dictate currency outflow
[2016-10-14 19:25:38] BitMEX_Greg : rapidtrades: unlikely at this stage
[2016-10-14 19:25:51] arbitrage001 : and btc is one of such way for outflow
[2016-10-14 19:25:52] rapidtrades : well thanks a lot Greg
[2016-10-14 19:26:10] BitMEX_Greg : sorry to throw a cold blanket on you
[2016-10-14 19:26:35] rapidtrades : mother nature already took care of that
[2016-10-14 19:26:43] arbitrage001 : BitMEX_Greg: i like to trade long term dated option also if it is available
[2016-10-14 19:26:46] rapidtrades : been sick all week
[2016-10-14 19:26:50] arbitrage001 : future i mean
[2016-10-14 19:27:32] rapidtrades : yeaah i'll take a linear future if qunatos are not an option...i'd rather give my money here then at okc
[2016-10-14 19:27:47] arbitrage001 : rapidtrades: right
[2016-10-14 19:28:24] BitMEX_Greg : We just didn't have enough volume on the longer dated like 9months to justify keeping it around. The market makers wouldn't want to assign margin to it as they were not getting a significant amount of turnover to justify it
[2016-10-14 19:28:49] sleger : 3 months quantos was long enough
[2016-10-14 19:29:28] arbitrage001 : 3 months will do for me also
[2016-10-14 19:29:40] arbitrage001 : need to hedge btc rate from time to time
[2016-10-14 19:31:59] sleger : however on these alts i just want to maintain a short long term
[2016-10-14 19:32:06] sleger : and the weekly doesnt work for that
[2016-10-14 20:01:24] SubPrimeLoan : I'm looking to get into derivatives can anyone be of assistance?
[2016-10-14 20:02:19] BitMEX_Greg : SubPrimeLoan: Hi how can I help you
[2016-10-14 20:04:02] SubPrimeLoan : I've been trading equities since high school and am looking to learn how to trade derivatives.
[2016-10-14 20:06:17] BitMEX_Greg : SubPrimeLoan: What specifically would you like to know about derivatives?
[2016-10-14 20:06:36] BitMEX_Greg : There is a plethora of knowledge online about derivatives in general.
[2016-10-14 20:07:11] BitMEX_Greg : If you would like to trade Bitcoin derivatives you have come to the right place. We offer Futures contracts (with a fixed expiry date), and Swap contracts (that are perpetual and do not have an expiry)
[2016-10-14 20:09:27] SubPrimeLoan : I understand what futures contracts are but I have never heard of swap contracts. How can a derivative not have an expiry date?
[2016-10-14 20:11:29] sleger : just imagine the expiry is in year 9999999
[2016-10-14 20:12:05] BitMEX_Greg : We have period interest funding rates that are paid between users to anchor the price to the spot (underlying) price
[2016-10-14 20:12:28] BitMEX_Greg : In this way, it is like margin trading in a spot market
[2016-10-14 20:15:45] SubPrimeLoan : I was told to stay away from derivatives by people in the financial industry. It seems like a challenge and I am getting bored of equities.
[2016-10-14 20:16:53] SubPrimeLoan : What are the underlying assets of these contracts?
[2016-10-14 20:17:08] BitMEX_Greg : As long as you educate yourself on terms such as Liquidations, Margin etc then trading derivatives is just like trading spot.
[2016-10-14 20:18:10] BitMEX_Greg : We have derivatives on Bitcoin, Ethereum, Ethereum Classic, Monero, Ripple, Augur, Litecoin, Lisk, Factom, Bitfinex Tokens and Zcash. They are all listed above on the Trade page
[2016-10-14 20:19:36] SubPrimeLoan : I know what bitcoin is lol. I have not heard of any of the currencies after that.
[2016-10-14 20:19:47] BitMEX_Greg : They are called Altcoins
[2016-10-14 20:20:02] SubPrimeLoan : They are the same concept of bitcoin?
[2016-10-14 20:21:38] BitMEX_Greg : They are similar in that they are cryptocurrencies but they have different purposes.
[2016-10-14 20:22:18] SubPrimeLoan : I like the analytics you guys have.
[2016-10-14 20:24:35] BitMEX_Greg : Great
[2016-10-14 20:25:32] SubPrimeLoan : Are you guys headquartered in china?
[2016-10-14 20:26:18] BitMEX_Greg : The company is domiciled in the Seychelles but there are few guys situated in Hong Kong
[2016-10-14 20:26:43] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 2517 @ 636.81
[2016-10-14 20:26:55] SubPrimeLoan : Yes I saw that, registered in Seychelles for tax purposes very smart.
[2016-10-14 20:27:26] SubPrimeLoan : I started learning mandarin when I was in high school.
[2016-10-14 20:27:59] SubPrimeLoan : I am applying to HSBC and Goldman for an internship in China.
[2016-10-14 20:29:13] BitMEX_Greg : Cool, all the best
[2016-10-14 20:49:14] justinlooking : stringbot
[2016-10-14 20:49:18] justinlooking : is backk
[2016-10-14 21:18:56] medpex : justinlooking: what is the stringbot
[2016-10-14 21:20:13] justinlooking : i am not sure
[2016-10-14 21:20:36] justinlooking : but it switches on periodically
[2016-10-14 21:21:15] justinlooking : and spams front of xbtusd orderbook with 10+ orders per second
[2016-10-14 21:26:06] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, we've contacted the user, looks like a bug in his/her bot
[2016-10-15 01:06:38] zanza : i bet its Sleger
[2016-10-15 01:08:03] sleger : how much you wanna bet idiot ?
[2016-10-15 01:08:37] BitMEX_Sam : 10 XBT
[2016-10-15 01:09:32] sleger : is that your minimum to be used as escrow ? what's your % fee ? @BitMEX_Sam
[2016-10-15 01:09:45] BitMEX_Sam : Oh, I'm betting it's not you
[2016-10-15 01:09:56] BitMEX_Sam : My escrow rate is 100%
[2016-10-15 01:10:33] sleger : so you return the money to the winner and keep the loser money ? That works for me, just happy to make zanza lose again
[2016-10-15 01:18:07] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 8450 @ 639.13
[2016-10-15 02:33:14] zanza : again? when did I lost before :)
[2016-10-15 03:08:55] mjones : lsk is hitting new lows
[2016-10-15 03:25:34] zanza : XMR is bleeding out too
[2016-10-15 03:47:42] mjones : xmr may bounce or fall over and die http://i.imgur.com/av8kJyQ.png
[2016-10-15 03:48:26] mjones : REP looks ready to make new lows
[2016-10-15 03:48:43] mjones : while BTC is trying to push higher. I think i know how this ends up
[2016-10-15 07:45:45] rapidtrades : zanza: are u buying cable?
[2016-10-15 08:36:22] REKT : Liquidated long on `XMR7D`: Sell 750 @ 0.010496
[2016-10-15 08:50:07] REKT : Liquidated long on `XMR7D`: Sell 3124 @ 0.010376
[2016-10-15 08:50:07] REKT : Liquidated long on `XMR7D`: Sell 20 @ 0.010415
[2016-10-15 08:52:07] REKT : Liquidated long on `XMR7D`: Sell 126 @ 0.010282
[2016-10-15 09:11:22] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 344 @ 0.01846
[2016-10-15 10:03:15] troll face : how much should 150 contracts be on xbt/usd?
[2016-10-15 10:04:22] troll face : mine is 499,859 XBt
[2016-10-15 10:05:40] troll face : WTF howw come @rapidtrades
[2016-10-15 10:10:10] BitMEX_Wally : troll face: 150 contracts of XBTUSD at 625 is worth 0.24 XBT and at 50x leverage would require around 0.00498 XBT i.e 498,000 XBt of margin
[2016-10-15 10:14:37] troll face : BitMEX_Wally: yeah but its 100x leverage now?
[2016-10-15 10:14:49] BitMEX_Wally : troll face: Drag the leverage selector to 100x
[2016-10-15 10:17:29] troll face : BitMEX_Wally: I was on cross and then did what you said now dragged it back again and it fixed it
[2016-10-15 10:17:50] BitMEX_Wally : Cool
[2016-10-15 10:19:00] troll face : BitMEX_Wally: Is it possible to change my user name?
[2016-10-15 10:19:04] habibi : BitMEX_Wally: "Drag the leverage selector to 100x" thats like saying to pull the trigger
[2016-10-15 10:19:26] BitMEX_Wally : troll face: Sure, let me know what username you would like
[2016-10-15 10:19:50] BitMEX_Wally : habibi: When we moved from 50x to 100x anyone on cross margin stayed on 50x+cross. I will move them to 100x+cross now, it only affects initial margin.
[2016-10-15 10:41:47] troll face : BitMEX_Wally: can I change my username to Coindozer?
[2016-10-15 10:47:02] troll face : CoinDozer
[2016-10-15 10:59:51] justinlooking : hey wally
[2016-10-15 11:02:45] justinlooking : could u make UI so when switch to XBJ, it remembers which expiry you were last looking at
[2016-10-15 11:03:51] justinlooking : so switching from xbtusd to xbj7d takes one click instead of two
[2016-10-15 12:16:47] troll face : okcoin
[2016-10-15 12:23:23] BitMEX_Sam : troll face: Please refresh, I changed your username
[2016-10-15 12:23:42] BitMEX_Sam : justinlooking: Sure, we actually already have an internal ticket for that
[2016-10-15 12:23:59] CoinDozer : BitMEX_Sam: Thankyou
[2016-10-15 12:24:25] justinlooking : BitMEX_Sam: cool
[2016-10-15 12:36:53] justinlooking : rare glimpse of stringbot's cousin there
[2016-10-15 12:45:26] sleger : the zanza moron thinks its me !
[2016-10-15 12:56:48] rapidtrades : wait we're back to 100/1 leverage on swap?
[2016-10-15 12:57:04] rapidtrades : bitmex living dangerously here
[2016-10-15 12:57:16] sleger : bitmex does not take any risk
[2016-10-15 13:00:50] BitMEX_Sam : justinlooking: That's live now, if you refresh the expiry will save when you switch contract series
[2016-10-15 13:04:47] rapidtrades : sleger: yeah i guess risk is much more frequent deleveraging
[2016-10-15 13:04:57] sleger : yes it is
[2016-10-15 13:05:08] sleger : but it's a risk for users
[2016-10-15 13:05:13] rapidtrades : yep
[2016-10-15 13:06:13] rapidtrades : guess we'll see how it works in practice
[2016-10-15 13:06:34] rapidtrades : if it takes me out at the first major rally i would have to reconsider my okc decision
[2016-10-15 13:08:41] sleger : you already know it might, not sure if that happens what more information you will have
[2016-10-15 13:11:54] rapidtrades : might take me out vs trading on a manipulated market
[2016-10-15 13:13:13] sleger : i dont agree with you on 0kcoin futures but whatever demon you prefer
[2016-10-15 13:15:25] rapidtrades : 3 major red flags
[2016-10-15 13:15:51] rapidtrades : it's hard to get filled mid-price
[2016-10-15 13:16:04] rapidtrades : they capped the premium during the major rally
[2016-10-15 13:16:29] rapidtrades : they frequently seem to run up prices right to the liqs to take them out
[2016-10-15 13:16:43] rapidtrades : ^^^ all point to in house bots to me
[2016-10-15 13:22:16] sleger : i dont think neither bitmex nor 0kc does your 3rd point
[2016-10-15 13:22:36] sleger : do you think it's easier to get filled mid price here ? I think that's just a consequence of having too many market making bots
[2016-10-15 13:22:52] sleger : for the second point, bitmex did much worse than capping the premium.
[2016-10-15 13:32:37] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 211 @ 638.15
[2016-10-15 14:52:02] zanza : Monero breaking down technically
[2016-10-15 14:59:30] messiaen8844 : monero aiming for that 0.006.005 support
[2016-10-15 15:00:13] messiaen8844 : many folks tried the OTE long at 0.010, their surrender will fuel the last leg down
[2016-10-15 15:00:47] messiaen8844 : then whales that sold 2300 and 1850 can rebuy :D
[2016-10-15 15:01:20] rapidtrades : sleger: how would too many bots lead to not get filled
[2016-10-15 15:02:11] rapidtrades : they keep pinp-ponging orders and when u try to step in, poof
[2016-10-15 15:02:13] sleger : they're market making bots, they want to receive the half spread
[2016-10-15 15:02:18] rapidtrades : noone wants to trade at the price
[2016-10-15 15:02:46] rapidtrades : ok but let's say they're trading at 639.15 now...mid-price
[2016-10-15 15:02:57] rapidtrades : it will keep printing volume at that price
[2016-10-15 15:03:07] rapidtrades : but when u place bid/offer there, noone will take it
[2016-10-15 15:03:20] rapidtrades : so they're just faking volume
[2016-10-15 15:03:46] sleger : you're looking at which contract
[2016-10-15 15:04:08] rapidtrades : happened on all when i used to trade there
[2016-10-15 15:04:21] sleger : on weekly last trade is at the asking price
[2016-10-15 15:04:23] sleger : right now
[2016-10-15 15:04:32] rapidtrades : idk now i haven't traded in months
[2016-10-15 15:04:48] sleger : 142 at the bid
[2016-10-15 15:04:59] sleger : no i never saw what you say on 0kcoin futures
[2016-10-15 15:05:14] sleger : on bitvc it happens ALL the time
[2016-10-15 15:11:45] BTCDJS : sleger: theres going to be another HF for ethereum. Do you think it will be positive or negative for ETH?
[2016-10-15 15:12:04] sleger : positive
[2016-10-15 15:12:20] spra : its gonna drop for a short time then go back up
[2016-10-15 15:12:32] sleger : worst case the attacker still finds a way to screw up the network a bit and price loses another 5-10%, but the upside is much higher
[2016-10-15 15:12:48] habibi : infinitive bubble
[2016-10-15 15:12:53] sleger : spra: it already dropped, why would it drop again ?
[2016-10-15 15:13:20] spra : i don't think its gonna fix the problem right away
[2016-10-15 15:13:30] sleger : why ?
[2016-10-15 15:13:43] MrRGnome : sleger: +1 re: eth
[2016-10-15 15:13:54] rapidtrades : another attack?
[2016-10-15 15:13:58] BTCDJS : Yeah I think ethereum is going to do well long term. twitter noise tho made me question a little
[2016-10-15 15:14:12] rapidtrades : what did i miss...been sick
[2016-10-15 15:14:18] MrRGnome : It's in a solid dump for good reasons, rushed hard forks are never desirable.
[2016-10-15 15:14:36] BTCDJS : rapidtrades: another HF coming cos of all the attacks on ethereum
[2016-10-15 15:14:38] spra : i'm of the opinion there is going to end up being more to it than simply changing gas prices
[2016-10-15 15:14:52] MrRGnome : As much as I am not really bullish on eth long term I'm going to ride the waves
[2016-10-15 15:15:05] rapidtrades : BTCDJS: shitcoin
[2016-10-15 15:15:11] sleger : the hard fork has already been released you can see what it is, so what are you talking about ?? @spra
[2016-10-15 15:15:16] rapidtrades : once a shitcoin, always a shitcoin
[2016-10-15 15:16:48] MrRGnome : rapidtrades: are you shorting eth or do you just not touch the stuff?
[2016-10-15 15:17:36] BTCDJS : MrRGnome: good question
[2016-10-15 15:18:25] rapidtrades : u can't fix a shitcoin
[2016-10-15 15:18:38] MrRGnome : well I agree, but you can trade it for some monies
[2016-10-15 15:19:01] MrRGnome : If all I traded was coins I held I'd never make anything because bitcoin doesn't fucking move.
[2016-10-15 15:19:16] BTCDJS : rapidtrades: there isnt a problem with the token. Its the platform that is under attack. The token is secondary
[2016-10-15 15:19:18] messiaen8844 : I'm buying ETH at 0.009
[2016-10-15 15:19:26] BTCDJS : not like other shitcoins
[2016-10-15 15:19:36] messiaen8844 : 0.016 also another candidate
[2016-10-15 15:19:47] messiaen8844 : but once BTC moons 0.009 is the destination
[2016-10-15 15:20:09] spra : @sleger i'm just saying even after looking at the release and reading articles, etc i'm not sure that everyone is 100% behind a fork and i think there will still be a small drop
[2016-10-15 15:20:24] spra : thats all i'm not trying to push a large agenda or anything haha
[2016-10-15 15:20:29] rapidtrades : idk momentum is down but past few months ETH has been range-bound
[2016-10-15 15:20:35] rapidtrades : so not seeing anything
[2016-10-15 15:21:35] BTCDJS : ethereum is the shit. Good outcome long term.
[2016-10-15 15:21:47] habibi : even the best revolution need downtrend after bubble, not that eth is revolution
[2016-10-15 15:22:23] MrRGnome : I'm not a fan of eths security model. I don't know that it has a long term future
[2016-10-15 15:22:41] BTCDJS : short term rocky roads until they get their shit together and the big dogs build onto of them again
[2016-10-15 15:22:45] sleger : probably why so many large companies are working with them... @MrRGnome
[2016-10-15 15:22:55] spra : @mrrgnome which aspect?
[2016-10-15 15:23:11] MrRGnome : sleger: Is that what defies a decentralized security model? Company involvement?
[2016-10-15 15:23:37] sleger : i mean as clients. Even large banks are looking closely to use ethereum, not bitcoin
[2016-10-15 15:24:35] BTCDJS : +1
[2016-10-15 15:25:17] MrRGnome : Specifically my concerns are with their block time while using PoW, their move to PoS which allows a significantly lower attack entry barrier, and their willingness to hardfork frequently or introduce mutability to their ledger. Further the security risk created by poorly constructed smart contracts is non-trivial.
[2016-10-15 15:25:59] MrRGnome : Simply put I don't believe the etherieum devs understand the decentralized security model. They certainly don't understand nash equilibrium as a mechanism of emergent trustless properties.
[2016-10-15 15:26:15] MrRGnome : as evidence by the miners currently not consuming transactions
[2016-10-15 15:26:48] spra : what are your thoughts on the sharding mechanism
[2016-10-15 15:31:29] MrRGnome : I think the point of a blockchain is to allow a fully verfiable chain of trust to exist able to be independently audited in full by any individual. I believe making that verification process paralleled is a security issue as it requires 1) PoS which has the issues I already mentioned and 2) it will plausibly disturb the decentralized trust model which requires serial and not parallel transaction verification - not so different from the downgrade in trust you get from using an SPV wallet instead of a full node.
[2016-10-15 15:32:55] sleger : what are you referring to by "making that verification process paralleled "
[2016-10-15 15:36:19] messiaen8844 : ETH = too much marketing, too much artificial pumping in the beggining
[2016-10-15 15:36:36] MrRGnome : the verification process performed by 'validators' of a given shard group. My understanding is validators are effectively assigned a group of shards to validate, creating a trust model relying on those parallelized validations. (i.e. every group of shards has different validators validating shards in parallel)
[2016-10-15 15:37:22] sleger : ok im following you but i dont see why this is necessarily a problem
[2016-10-15 15:39:00] MrRGnome : Okay, for decentralization to take place the process of blockchain verification needs to be able to be done entirely independently without trust. If this process of parallization or sharding makes it so I have to trust a 'validator' of a shard then it will have broken the decentralized and trustless model.
[2016-10-15 15:39:54] sleger : is this validator any member of the validating process or someone from the foundation ?
[2016-10-15 15:40:05] MrRGnome : I believe it's just peers
[2016-10-15 15:40:07] MrRGnome : a node function
[2016-10-15 15:40:25] sleger : so i would still call it decentralized
[2016-10-15 15:40:26] MrRGnome : I'm really not entirely sure, I'd love for someone with an in depth understanding to explain why i am wrong if I am.
[2016-10-15 15:40:36] MrRGnome : Decentralized requires trustless
[2016-10-15 15:40:36] sleger : i wouldnt be able to do that
[2016-10-15 15:40:51] sleger : hmm decentralized means not centralized
[2016-10-15 15:40:55] MrRGnome : It's not decentralized if it isn't trustless, just distributed
[2016-10-15 15:41:36] sleger : but you dont have to trust someone in particular, you trust some randomly chosen group/vaildator
[2016-10-15 15:42:03] MrRGnome : Yeah but that's the problem
[2016-10-15 15:42:08] MrRGnome : Compare that to "trust myself"
[2016-10-15 15:42:10] sleger : tipple is distributed but centralized
[2016-10-15 15:42:13] sleger : *ripple
[2016-10-15 15:42:21] MrRGnome : and ripple is a garbage coin
[2016-10-15 15:42:23] sleger : that is very different from eth after POS model
[2016-10-15 15:42:44] MrRGnome : and honestly, eth has a lot more useful tech behind it but if the security model stays broken I don't see how it can have a long term future either
[2016-10-15 15:42:52] MrRGnome : PoS is itself a broken system
[2016-10-15 15:43:11] sleger : it doesnt even exist yet :p
[2016-10-15 15:43:27] spra : MrRGnome: i dont entirely agree with his methodology but the process explained in the mauve papers that fixes the problem you are referring to is a sort of betting system that highly decentivizes the validator acting incorrectly
[2016-10-15 15:43:34] MrRGnome : and I wish it worked, I'm a fucking commie I'm all about that shit. But it doesn't create the same economic securities or nash equilibrium that your bitcoin styled PoW does. PoS absolutely exists and is well defined
[2016-10-15 15:44:32] MrRGnome : Is that disincentive on the scale of the PoW security model? That's the thing, any barrier won't do, it needs to be comparable to the attack vectors already present in PoW which are massive in their cost
[2016-10-15 15:44:34] spra : re: economic securities this is why i don't agree with vitalik, he actually calls the system a form of "betting"
[2016-10-15 15:45:21] spra : basically if a validator creates an incorrect block and eventually it is discovered through the system as being incorrect, all ETH gained through the validation of a chain containing that incorrect block is destroyed
[2016-10-15 15:45:57] spra : there is an incentivization system in place for people to find and report these incorrect validator blocks and the term he is using for them is "dunkles"
[2016-10-15 15:46:19] sleger : i think Pos is vastly superior to Pow
[2016-10-15 15:46:31] Pierre : hey i am new to this platfom and i have a question. If my ROE is at 3% for emeple it doen't mean that if i close my position i would have made a PLN of 3% right ?
[2016-10-15 15:46:43] sleger : bitcoin pow is controlled by 3 large mining companies who dont even need to care about bitcoin, not by the "shareholders" who own the crypto
[2016-10-15 15:46:53] spra : i agree but like i said before i'm just not completely confident in vitalik to do it correctly
[2016-10-15 15:46:59] habibi : at the end pow is pos system as well where u staking energy
[2016-10-15 15:47:00] sleger : Pierre: emeple some new shitcoin ?
[2016-10-15 15:47:04] habibi : but pos is not pow in same way
[2016-10-15 15:47:43] Pierre : ?
[2016-10-15 15:48:38] spra : @habibi but given that pow currently uses "as much electricity or more than the entire country of ireland" a massive increase in scale within 20 years would not be very good for the environment and would create public backlash
[2016-10-15 15:49:47] Pierre : @sleger I don't get it
[2016-10-15 15:50:36] sleger : Pierre: read your question again
[2016-10-15 15:51:21] spra : you had to have understood he was trying to say example
[2016-10-15 15:51:29] Pierre : @oups sorry i mean "exemple"
[2016-10-15 15:51:39] Pierre : @sleger
[2016-10-15 15:52:10] sleger : Pierre: if you close it at mark price and excluding fees then yes
[2016-10-15 15:52:56] Pierre : okay thanks
[2016-10-15 15:57:03] MrRGnome : spra: the huge cost of PoW is a security solution. It may also be an environmental problem but until someone come sup with something with a similar security profile (i.e. not PoS) expensive PoW is a very important part of a secure blockchain IMO.
[2016-10-15 16:01:37] Pierre : How to pay the maker fee only ?
[2016-10-15 16:01:52] sleger : by only making
[2016-10-15 16:02:06] MrRGnome : place limit orders that do not consume orders from the order book and wait.
[2016-10-15 16:03:11] BitMEX_Wally : Pierre: When placing a limit order you can tick 'Post-Only' to ensure it either earns the maker fee, or is cancelled
[2016-10-15 16:03:35] Pierre : thanks
[2016-10-15 16:04:17] sleger : BitMEX_Wally: i believe that when you have 2 tabs open on chrome you get the notifications twice
[2016-10-15 16:04:38] spra : @mrrgnome agree to disagree but even with ethereum's model a 51% attack would not be feasible
[2016-10-15 16:05:33] spra : here is a direct quote
[2016-10-15 16:05:35] spra : Economic finality - once a block is made, after a certain amount of time a state of affairs should arise where the bulk of the validators have "fully committed" to that block, meaning that they lose their entire ETH deposits (think: 10 million ETH of value) in all histories that do not have that block. This is desirable because it means that even majority collusions cannot conduct medium or long-range 51% attacks without destroying all of their ether; the default validator strategies are designed to be conservative about their willingness to make high-value commitments so the risk for honest validators should be very low.
[2016-10-15 16:10:56] MrRGnome : spra: I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. I personally think believing a 51% attack of any kind is impossible is incredibly naive, or that even a lower ~30% attack on PoS is impossible. The description you have given is a disincentive for double spends, not a disincentive for network disruption. As I'm sure you know it's very profitable to cause problems with a coin (*cough ethereum cough*) and short it on the spot market so that kind of disincetivization isn't very effective at removing profit opportunities for an attacker. Again I must say the only effective security mechanism is putting a sufficiently high cost to attack, and that cost could come entirely from fiat or electricity or hardware costs without ever considering the coins currency
[2016-10-15 16:12:21] spra : fair points
[2016-10-15 17:20:18] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 99 @ 637.21
[2016-10-15 17:20:18] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 200 @ 637.20
[2016-10-15 18:03:42] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 98836 @ 636.82 **EPIC REKT** :unamused: :confounded: :astonished:
[2016-10-15 18:05:42] Gr33d : heh
[2016-10-15 18:08:20] rapidtrades : wtf
[2016-10-15 18:08:52] rapidtrades : so to fill that...smone lost a 100k short?
[2016-10-15 18:09:35] sleger : use your br....
[2016-10-15 18:09:37] sleger : wait a minute
[2016-10-15 18:09:45] rapidtrades : insurance fund?
[2016-10-15 18:09:49] sleger : no
[2016-10-15 18:09:50] mjones : 100k is like $1,700 on 100x
[2016-10-15 18:10:00] sleger : since when did rekt mean DPE or insurance fund ?
[2016-10-15 18:10:24] sleger : it just means there is a liq order triggered
[2016-10-15 18:10:33] rapidtrades : a REKT thats' not filled is a liq
[2016-10-15 18:10:38] rapidtrades : and a liq causes DPE
[2016-10-15 18:10:41] sleger : no
[2016-10-15 18:10:56] sleger : the only thing that was here is a rekt
[2016-10-15 18:11:09] sleger : it was filled (I assume)
[2016-10-15 18:11:13] sleger : then if not it uses dpe
[2016-10-15 18:11:18] sleger : sorry insurance fund
[2016-10-15 18:11:28] sleger : then if empty there is ADL (instead of DPE)
[2016-10-15 18:11:41] rapidtrades : so i was right
[2016-10-15 18:11:46] sleger : as usual
[2016-10-15 18:11:47] sleger : no
[2016-10-15 18:12:07] rapidtrades : right as usual, got it
[2016-10-15 18:15:00] mjones : what happened to the market maker on XBJ7D?
[2016-10-15 18:15:22] sleger : he is showing 500
[2016-10-15 18:15:34] mjones : went 3000 to 6000 to 10000 to 500
[2016-10-15 18:15:42] mjones : they are all over the place
[2016-10-15 18:16:22] sleger : he is probably confused about being forced to trade JPY instead of usd like everyone else
[2016-10-15 18:16:38] rapidtrades : x2
[2016-10-15 18:16:40] sleger : what's next ? btcgbp ?
[2016-10-15 18:17:06] rapidtrades : they had that once...then the only UK exchnge went down
[2016-10-15 18:17:16] mjones : bot went down to 200 and 500 on all 3 XBJ
[2016-10-15 18:17:22] rapidtrades : altho btcgbp would be more fun in this environment
[2016-10-15 18:18:07] sleger : no, thats like saying you want to trade corn/treasure bonds thats stupid
[2016-10-15 18:18:17] sleger : trade gold usd and then trade bonds usd that makes sense
[2016-10-15 18:19:19] justinlooking : spreads are for picnics
[2016-10-15 18:19:27] rapidtrades : but then i pay x2 commish
[2016-10-15 18:19:32] rapidtrades : and spreads
[2016-10-15 18:19:49] sleger : cause you think the spread on corn/treasuries will be tighter ?
[2016-10-15 18:20:12] rapidtrades : it might?
[2016-10-15 18:20:18] sleger : these new jpy futures are such a flop !!
[2016-10-15 18:20:25] sleger : rapidtrades: it might but it wouldnt
[2016-10-15 18:20:32] rapidtrades : prolly saving the comish will be worth it overall
[2016-10-15 18:21:01] sleger : spread on 7d is > $3 and >$7 on dec
[2016-10-15 18:21:49] justinlooking : lol flop
[2016-10-15 18:22:07] sleger : rapidtrades: no, market makers would be charging you a wider spread to quote those stuff nobody trades
[2016-10-15 18:23:10] rapidtrades : arguing on a hypothetical is a bit silly
[2016-10-15 18:32:57] jeeburns : lol peeps selling when china pumping, logical
[2016-10-15 18:40:32] wurstgelee : jeeburns: a) funding in an hour b) pumping? oO
[2016-10-15 18:41:12] jeeburns : not sure, just saw china moving up and us doing the opposite, but we'll see if it lasts
[2016-10-15 18:41:46] rapidtrades : yikes...another rapey funding
[2016-10-15 18:42:00] wurstgelee : yep. .17 %is quite a lot
[2016-10-15 18:42:36] rapidtrades : and another .11 behind it
[2016-10-15 18:43:10] sleger : it will lower a bit since discount
[2016-10-15 18:44:05] rapidtrades : i think i barely made any money on this pump
[2016-10-15 18:44:25] rapidtrades : what's the total funding damage since then 615 jump?
[2016-10-15 18:45:11] sleger : lazy, do it yourself
[2016-10-15 18:45:50] rapidtrades : im sick
[2016-10-15 18:46:06] sleger : admittance is the first step
[2016-10-15 18:46:38] rapidtrades : u seem cranky today
[2016-10-15 18:46:57] rapidtrades : did they waiter bring u a cheap champagne
[2016-10-15 18:47:14] sleger : cant drink for 48 hours, had surgery
[2016-10-15 18:48:23] micmix : mjones: Quoine feed was down
[2016-10-15 18:48:45] mjones : so the market maker bailed
[2016-10-15 18:48:47] mjones : or scaled back
[2016-10-15 18:49:10] micmix : yes, and Quoine still having issues, so MM is quoting small
[2016-10-15 18:49:48] rapidtrades : sleger: oh yea? did they take smth out or put smth in?
[2016-10-15 18:50:38] Pierre : hey, i have a question, i have 30 percents of unrealised PNL on my open position put it's wrote 0.0000 XBT. this number is not right ! How is this possible ?
[2016-10-15 18:50:47] Pierre : but*
[2016-10-15 18:54:54] wurstgelee : Pierre: ur position size doesnt happen to be 1 xrp?
[2016-10-15 18:54:58] wurstgelee : ;)
[2016-10-15 18:55:24] Pierre : no it's 2 XBT
[2016-10-15 18:55:35] Pierre : -2 sorry
[2016-10-15 18:57:49] justinlooking : -2 contracts ?
[2016-10-15 18:58:07] wurstgelee : that explains it i guess
[2016-10-15 18:58:41] wurstgelee : which leverage?
[2016-10-15 18:59:34] justinlooking : Pierre: change currency display to XBt
[2016-10-15 19:00:52] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBJ7D`: Sell 23200 @ 67041
[2016-10-15 19:05:31] RocketScience : A bitcoin rally before the funding would be such a blessing
[2016-10-15 19:13:43] sleger : rapidtrades: i'm full of surprises, so they had to take one out
[2016-10-15 19:14:49] sleger : Pierre: they dont teach good english in french schools anymore ?
[2016-10-15 20:00:42] jeeburns : jesus. So it costs me .03 bitcoin on this exchange every 8 hours to keep a trade open with 9k contracts. HOOWW
[2016-10-15 20:01:17] jeeburns : my unrealized just went from .06ish to .09ish on the new funding period...guess i didn't realize it was that redic.
[2016-10-15 20:01:32] RocketScience : it is very high right now
[2016-10-15 20:01:50] jeeburns : that is insane. Finding a new exchange after this move
[2016-10-15 20:01:57] rapidtrades : wait does unrealised included our funding costs?
[2016-10-15 20:02:07] rapidtrades : cos i thought that goes to realized
[2016-10-15 20:02:50] jeeburns : my realized was at -.06 went to -.09 my unrealized is at .07, not sure
[2016-10-15 20:03:07] j8 : unrealized changes at funding because the mark price premium changes
[2016-10-15 20:03:44] rapidtrades : ah
[2016-10-15 20:03:48] jeeburns : so, does that push my unrealized profit up and my realized profit up?
[2016-10-15 20:04:46] jeeburns : well realized went further down and unrealized went further up, maybe they canceled out idk.
[2016-10-15 20:05:50] jeeburns : like when this finally moves, i might get lucky and make back all the fees i paid
[2016-10-15 20:06:58] chromaticcr1 : jeeburns: `Predicted Funding Rate-0.1862% in 16 hour` might help you out, well given the rate stays this low
[2016-10-15 20:07:32] rapidtrades : prolly won't
[2016-10-15 20:08:16] j8 : realized went down from paying last period's funding. unrealized went up because of this period's funding, which is lower. and you'll lose that bit over 8 hours anyway
[2016-10-15 20:08:41] chromaticcr1 : our weightings are 9 minutes in, got 471 samples left ;)
[2016-10-15 20:26:55] jeeburns : so do you guys leave trade open or just more scalping? Just feels like i've lost everything i've made simply by leaving a trade open.
[2016-10-15 20:34:59] justinlooking : i am the liquor
[2016-10-15 20:44:59] Tetsuo : justinlooking: +1
[2016-10-15 21:00:43] wurstgelee : red wine
[2016-10-15 21:03:09] Tetsuo : wurstgelee: count me in --- cabernet sauvignon
[2016-10-15 21:03:36] wurstgelee : garnacha ;)
[2016-10-15 21:04:09] Tetsuo : nice
[2016-10-15 21:04:31] wurstgelee : great wine i accidentallys stumbled upon
[2016-10-15 21:04:52] wurstgelee : pagos de moncayo garnacha 2012
[2016-10-15 21:04:53] sleger : surgical spirit
[2016-10-15 21:05:10] sleger : im sure tetsuo would like that too
[2016-10-15 21:05:28] wurstgelee : hard to get, almost sold out afaik. but 2013 is good too
[2016-10-15 21:05:58] sleger : 10 bucks wine... ouch
[2016-10-15 21:06:11] wurstgelee : thats bullshit
[2016-10-15 21:06:25] wurstgelee : there are some great wines in that price area
[2016-10-15 21:06:49] sleger : if you like cheap wine yes
[2016-10-15 21:07:01] wurstgelee : it depends a lot on origin
[2016-10-15 21:07:22] wurstgelee : a bordeaux in that range is probably shit
[2016-10-15 21:07:33] wurstgelee : spanish wines not necessarily
[2016-10-15 21:07:35] sleger : even a rioja
[2016-10-15 21:07:40] sleger : for 10 bucks, shit
[2016-10-15 21:07:56] wurstgelee : the 2012 is 15 btw.
[2016-10-15 21:08:04] wurstgelee : also avior gran reserva for example
[2016-10-15 21:08:06] wurstgelee : 15 bucks
[2016-10-15 21:08:19] wurstgelee : and def no shit vine
[2016-10-15 21:08:29] wurstgelee : *w
[2016-10-15 21:09:20] d00ber : beer plz. drinking Lagunitas lil sumpin' sumpin'
[2016-10-15 21:09:37] sleger : price going down
[2016-10-15 21:09:41] wurstgelee : oh, and carlos mendoza makes some great riojas around that 2
[2016-10-15 21:09:46] wurstgelee : also yay for shorts
[2016-10-15 21:09:48] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 6795 @ 635.30
[2016-10-15 21:09:48] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 2600 @ 635.26
[2016-10-15 21:09:55] Tetsuo : :-)
[2016-10-15 21:11:35] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 7000 @ 635.20
[2016-10-15 21:11:51] Tetsuo : quarterlys@okcoin just dropped about 14$, thank god i closed my longs earlier
[2016-10-15 21:12:26] sleger : told you 30$ premium is too much
[2016-10-15 21:13:37] Tetsuo : looks like it : - )
[2016-10-15 21:13:53] sleger : altho i just picked some up at 23$ premium.... BTC1230 10 2016-10-16 05:11:34 Open Long 100Cont $663.0
[2016-10-15 21:15:06] Tetsuo : count me in Long-BTC1230 41 41 ฿0.3084 $660.97
[2016-10-15 21:15:33] sleger : 41 contracts?
[2016-10-15 21:15:44] sleger : do you even lift bro ?
[2016-10-15 21:15:54] Tetsuo : i had to hedge my XBJ quarterly longs in here with XBTUSD shorts, as XBJ market maker left the building
[2016-10-15 21:15:58] Tetsuo : 41 contracts yes
[2016-10-15 21:17:00] Tetsuo : i have another400 contracts open staggered down to 650 $
[2016-10-15 21:17:02] Tetsuo : we´ll see
[2016-10-15 21:17:35] Rado : How much is 1 contract there?
[2016-10-15 21:17:54] sleger : how long have you been here ? @Rado
[2016-10-15 21:18:16] Rado : I am asking about Okcoin
[2016-10-15 21:18:17] sleger : (the answer is way more than enough that you should know that)
[2016-10-15 21:18:22] Rado : i know how much is here
[2016-10-15 21:18:23] sleger : ah ok 100$ for btc
[2016-10-15 21:18:35] Rado : Thanks
[2016-10-15 21:19:14] sleger : was expecting spot to go down more given the move on quaterly
[2016-10-15 21:19:46] Rado : XBJ here didn't move much
[2016-10-15 21:20:00] sleger : nobody trades it
[2016-10-15 21:20:03] Rado : i sold half at 69500
[2016-10-15 21:20:26] Rado : can't even rebuy yet
[2016-10-15 21:20:46] Tetsuo : i still have 35k contracts longs open but wasn´t able to close it due to liquidity
[2016-10-15 21:21:13] Rado : 35k is not hard to close
[2016-10-15 21:21:27] Rado : did you even try?
[2016-10-15 21:21:41] Tetsuo : did you even look at@ quarterlys xbj
[2016-10-15 21:21:51] Tetsuo : whole bidside till = is 31217
[2016-10-15 21:22:34] Rado : You can't look at it that way
[2016-10-15 21:22:56] Rado : if you sell 10k new bids will show up
[2016-10-15 21:23:07] Tetsuo : i hedged with xbtusd, so i´m fine for now
[2016-10-15 21:23:23] sleger : if usdjpy doesnt move yes
[2016-10-15 21:23:31] sleger : or funding fees kill u
[2016-10-15 21:23:34] Rado : Exactly
[2016-10-15 21:23:36] Tetsuo : i sold 8000 earlier 2% below spot, no new bids appeared
[2016-10-15 21:23:59] Tetsuo : can´t wait for negative funding to rape my shorts too .......
[2016-10-15 21:24:11] Rado : lol
[2016-10-15 21:24:46] Rado : I like XBJ
[2016-10-15 21:25:03] Rado : already made 2 XBT
[2016-10-15 21:25:18] Rado : Imagine when BTC starts moving for real
[2016-10-15 21:25:44] sleger : you will lose 10 ?
[2016-10-15 21:26:03] Rado : Can't happen
[2016-10-15 21:26:14] Rado : I have stops always
[2016-10-15 21:26:31] sleger : well you'll lose 2, 5 times
[2016-10-15 21:26:55] Rado : Is that what happens with your trades?
[2016-10-15 21:27:06] sleger : no
[2016-10-15 21:27:21] Rado : then how do you make money?
[2016-10-15 21:27:50] sleger : i wait for people like you to lose 2btc, 5 times
[2016-10-15 21:28:28] sleger : right now, here, i mostly just arb the funding fee
[2016-10-15 21:29:02] Rado : Funding for XBTBTC is not much at all
[2016-10-15 21:29:22] Rado : you need to trade a lot of contracts to make something
[2016-10-15 21:29:40] sleger : XBTBTC ? that thing wont move much
[2016-10-15 21:30:00] habibi : ye pretty sure bet to hold
[2016-10-15 21:30:00] Rado : Right
[2016-10-15 21:30:02] sleger : when you have 0.1% 3x per day its something
[2016-10-15 21:30:14] Rado : I guess
[2016-10-15 21:30:29] Rado : 100k contracts?
[2016-10-15 21:30:46] sleger : depends, but somewhere around those numbers
[2016-10-15 21:30:55] justinlooking : did u show 250k on bid a sec ago?
[2016-10-15 21:31:05] sleger : not me
[2016-10-15 21:31:19] sleger : Today, longs will pay 0.0750%
[2016-10-15 21:32:14] Rado : Shorting LSK was very profitable the last few days
[2016-10-15 21:32:37] Rado : Plus large funding rates
[2016-10-15 21:32:59] sleger : missed that boat
[2016-10-15 21:33:06] sleger : jung1 must be crying
[2016-10-15 21:33:52] Tetsuo : lol- funding@lisk - 0.6012- nice
[2016-10-15 21:34:01] Rado : Is he long?
[2016-10-15 21:34:13] Tetsuo : he´s a total shitcoin beliver