This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2015-09-10 22:42:17] BitMEX_Sam : What's the difference over the old Google Pay?
[2015-09-10 23:01:33] zanza : I believe your CC# never leaves your phone, and the app generates a unique token for each separate purchase
[2015-09-11 00:08:05] zanza : can be used with NFC payment terminals
[2015-09-11 00:49:09] j8 : `XBTU15`books are stacked
[2015-09-11 00:49:36] BitMEX_Sam : Woof
[2015-09-11 00:49:38] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah they are.
[2015-09-11 00:54:10] belcher : so for the hedging XBU contracts, looks like theres a tradeoff between expiry time and spread
[2015-09-11 00:54:26] belcher : futures that expire further in the future dont need to rolled over so much, but their spread is bigger
[2015-09-11 00:54:40] BitMEX_Arthur : belcher: More interest rate risk
[2015-09-11 01:29:59] belcher : is there any way to hold margin in USD rather than btc ? suppose if someone wants to hedge usd/btc but then they lose money because the value of their margin dropped
[2015-09-11 01:30:57] BitMEX_Arthur : belcher: Imagine you held 1 BTC worth $100
[2015-09-11 01:31:13] BitMEX_Arthur : and you wanted to lock in the value by selling 1 contract of XBU at a price of $100
[2015-09-11 01:31:24] BitMEX_Arthur : you deposit the 1 BTC with us as margin, then sell 1 XBU contract
[2015-09-11 01:31:30] BitMEX_Arthur : you are completely hedged
[2015-09-11 01:32:16] BitMEX_Arthur : We only require 0.3 BTC as margin, you could take the 0.7 BTC and lend it, or leave it on deposit with us, either way you are hedged
[2015-09-11 01:32:24] belcher : i see, so your hedging position must also hedge the margin
[2015-09-11 01:32:50] BitMEX_Arthur : Depends on your objective, but generally attempt to match the USD value of your portfolio with XBU contracts
[2015-09-11 01:33:16] BitMEX_Arthur : and deposit the margin needed with us, and the remaining you can do with what you like, unless you need to top up your account at BitMEX due to losses on the futures contract
[2015-09-11 01:35:20] belcher : okay i see, thanks
[2015-09-11 02:07:59] jillhomebrew619 : the spread is so crazy here haha
[2015-09-11 05:11:08] gonfalons : How do I close a position
[2015-09-11 05:11:18] BitMEX_Arthur : Are you long or short?
[2015-09-11 05:11:41] gonfalons : Short
[2015-09-11 05:12:15] BitMEX_Arthur : You buy in the same quantity that your are short, or on the Order Controls panel click the Close Position tab
[2015-09-11 05:12:54] BitMEX_Arthur : And it will submit an order to close your full position
[2015-09-11 05:14:04] gonfalons : Where is the order controls panel?
[2015-09-11 05:21:06] BitMEX_Arthur : Where you enter buy and sell orders
[2015-09-11 05:21:16] BitMEX_Arthur : The panel you used when you placed your order originally
[2015-09-11 05:53:57] devo : BitMEX_Arthur: you mentioned in above example this morning about lending 0.7BTC. How can I lend funds that I deposit?
[2015-09-11 05:54:23] BitMEX_Arthur : You can't do it here, but if you withdrew your 0.7 BTC to Bitfinex for example you could lend on their Bitcoin swap market
[2015-09-11 05:56:58] devo : ok I see.No plans to provide lending platform here for idle coins?
[2015-09-11 05:58:08] BitMEX_Arthur : devo: When we have a product that is relatively risk free we could explore that but at the moment we have no where to invest the coins that would generate a return
[2015-09-11 06:03:28] devo : @BitMEX_Arthur no I meant a P2P lending platform between users. supply/demand balanced by market. users borrow to trade on leverage. bitfinex style.
[2015-09-11 06:04:18] BitMEX_Arthur : The problem with that is that we don't operate a spot book, imagine you borrow 1 BTC and lever up 25x, it would be very hard to recover any of the loaned principle if the user got liquidated
[2015-09-11 06:04:54] BitMEX_Arthur : The interest rate would be very high, and defaults on principle would be high as well
[2015-09-11 06:05:01] BitMEX_Arthur : Which would mean no one would lend
[2015-09-11 06:05:09] devo : I get your point
[2015-09-11 06:13:05] Tataku : how long after a 'confirmed withdrawal' OUT of BitMEX before transfer is completed?
[2015-09-11 06:13:43] BitMEX_Arthur : We process withdrawals daily at 12:00 GMT
[2015-09-11 06:13:52] Tataku : ty.
[2015-09-11 06:13:54] BitMEX_Arthur : meaning we process and broadcast to the blockchai
[2015-09-11 06:32:17] Hoble : Hi, what's the settlement time for XBT7D today?
[2015-09-11 06:33:01] Hoble : don't worry i just saw it 5hrs incoming:)
[2015-09-11 07:36:57] laisee : Arthur> could you not use margin & lower leverage to limit losses in p2p lending model?
[2015-09-11 07:37:33] BitMEX_Arthur : I am not sure I see the point, when trading 25x you are essentially borrowing money off of your counterpart anyway
[2015-09-11 07:37:44] BitMEX_Arthur : Why complicate it even further by borrowing a portion of your initial equity
[2015-09-11 07:40:28] laisee : yes, but counterparty is not paying interest.
[2015-09-11 07:40:54] BitMEX_Arthur : The interest rate is determined by the premium or discount the future trades at vs. spot
[2015-09-11 07:43:43] laisee : wouldnt p2p lending market help boost liquidity and interest.
[2015-09-11 07:44:26] BitMEX_Arthur : I don't see how, we would need to create an entirely new product, then find enough people to lend
[2015-09-11 07:46:38] laisee : some people like to earn income without trading futures.
[2015-09-11 07:47:03] BitMEX_Arthur : laisee: That's true but we don't have a spot market, there would be principle losses
[2015-09-11 07:47:07] BitMEX_Arthur : and then people wouldn't lend anymore
[2015-09-11 07:47:11] laisee : maybe that is valid niche if done rght
[2015-09-11 07:49:02] laisee : if you dont have spot market then use index price and margin calculation to close loan if needed.
[2015-09-11 07:52:10] j8 : only reason to borrow would be if 25x leverage wasn't enough. it is enough, given the spreads. there is already a high risk of forced liquidations not filling.
[2015-09-11 07:53:37] j8 : no demand for borrowing and high risk of loss is bad news for lenders
[2015-09-11 07:58:30] laisee : would be a different kind of product for separate users. anyway - just some thoughts ...
[2015-09-11 10:31:50] zanza : yeah, having 25x leverage and a MM is kind of separate concepts as far as I can tell
[2015-09-11 10:32:08] zanza : but it could open the door for a type of arbitrage for anyone smart out there
[2015-09-11 12:15:13] loke : BitMEX_Arthur: I keep getting kicked off the account, having to log back in all the time now. Is there anything that can be done?
[2015-09-11 12:16:48] BitMEX_Wally : loke: What error are you getting, IP address changed?
[2015-09-11 12:30:53] loke : BitMEX_Wally: doesn't say, just kicks me to login screen
[2015-09-11 12:32:11] BitMEX_Wally : loke: Ok, I'll get @BitMEX_Sam to investigate. We're over cautious when it comes to security which can be annoying sometimes
[2015-09-11 12:33:37] loke : BitMEX_Wally: I appreciate that. I've been lucky so far in that it hasn't ruined any trades, although it's been close, so morale is still high. Thanks for looking into it.
[2015-09-11 12:41:31] zanza : how many times per day/hour will you get kicked?
[2015-09-11 12:42:52] BitMEX_Sam : Morning.
[2015-09-11 12:42:56] BitMEX_Sam : loke: Looking into it
[2015-09-11 12:44:03] loke : BitMEX_Sam: Many thanks!
[2015-09-11 12:44:49] loke : zanza: Mid double digits, depending on hours spent on the platform.
[2015-09-11 12:46:40] zanza : is it the same computer/stable internet connection? Did the problem just start happening, or did it always happen? If it just started, did you change anything that could possible cause it?
[2015-09-11 12:47:01] BitMEX_Sam : So, just to give you some background, we have some checks in place to protect our users - from what I can tell, it's getting overly aggressive on your account and I'm investigating why.
[2015-09-11 12:47:23] BitMEX_Sam : But in general, if you are inactive for a few minutes (tab closed), or your IP changes, you'll get logged out. But in your case neither of those is happening.
[2015-09-11 14:12:03] loke : Yea it just started happening for no apparent reason. Tabs are kept open. Can't rule out shifty connection though.
[2015-09-11 14:19:12] BitMEX_Sam : I've added some extra safeguards and debugging to try to trace it down - let me know if you get booted again
[2015-09-11 14:25:22] loke : BitMEX_Sam: Will do! Thanks.
[2015-09-12 11:25:23] Fonzie : BitMEX_Sam: i Have an withdraw that says confirmed but doesn´t show up in the blockchain for more than 20 minute4s now?
[2015-09-12 11:29:04] cengel : confirmed is a bad word they use to say you confirmed the placement of withdrawal
[2015-09-12 11:29:21] cengel : when it says "completed" it means broadcast to blockch
[2015-09-12 11:29:45] Fonzie : ok , thanks. how long does it usually take until they send it
[2015-09-12 11:32:42] BitMEX_Arthur : Fonzie: Hi we process withdrawals each day at 12 GMT
[2015-09-12 11:36:39] Fonzie : puuh, okay , so i guess i have to deal with it, but as a user this kinda sucks hard, no offense but maybe you should overthink this. (safety) rule/strategy. Waitin a whole day is normally a no-go for me when dealin with BTC.
[2015-09-12 11:37:25] Fonzie : Is it possible that you cancel the withdraw? This would be great
[2015-09-12 11:37:46] Fonzie : so that i can open another position inthe meanwhile
[2015-09-12 11:38:38] BitMEX_Arthur : Fonzie: Can you send an email to support@bitmex.com and we can take it from there
[2015-09-12 11:38:55] BitMEX_Arthur : Or click on Support and create a ticket, don't like to do account stuff over the public chat
[2015-09-12 11:39:01] BitMEX_Arthur : and gives a proper paper trail of your request
[2015-09-12 11:39:37] Fonzie : of course, ah i just realized that 12 GMT is in about 20 minutes :-D so my problem is solved anyway. thanks for your fast response. I thought i had to wait another 23 hours
[2015-09-12 11:43:57] Fonzie : i really love all the different kind of instruments you offer and your interface is also awesome, but most of them are sadly untradable due to the low liquidity and hige spread. I will come back if this should improve in the future. Anyways keep up the good work!
[2015-09-12 11:44:37] BitMEX_Arthur : Fonzie: We hope you do so, increasing liquidity is our number one priority at the moment and it will improve shortly
[2015-09-12 11:48:34] Fonzie : Great, an exchange like yours is truly needed in Bitcoinland right now. Most of the traders are desperately lookin for an exchange like yours. As i said, beside those 2 hopefully temporarily problems your exchange is really providing a sophisticated and unique offer for cryptocurrency traders. Best wishes & good luck fonzie
[2015-09-12 15:27:24] cryptosys : Is there a way to lock the scrolling of the overall window?
[2015-09-12 17:58:36] krtek.net : what for?
[2015-09-12 18:11:48] krtek.net : drag these two links to your bookmark bar http://www.krtek.net/scroll.html (you'd better not trust anyone who's trying to make you run his javascript, but whatever... There is a little risk if you try this in anonymous window on some other website)
[2015-09-12 19:57:08] zanza : whoa, we broke downwards?
[2015-09-12 20:10:14] j8 : yeah, futures were way high before the drop
[2015-09-12 20:20:55] DunningKruger : At last
[2015-09-12 20:22:31] j8 : question as always is, now what.
[2015-09-12 20:24:45] j8 : short the bounce i guess. 238 resistance
[2015-09-12 20:29:50] DunningKruger : Indeed. I've been short since the last bounce.
[2015-09-12 20:30:31] jillhomebrew619 : the spread is so fucky here
[2015-09-12 20:32:12] j8 : play the spread and win
[2015-09-12 20:35:02] j8 : if you try to trade short timeframes, you will lose
[2015-09-12 20:40:07] j8 : have had some pretty sexy fills today on `XBTU15`
[2015-09-12 20:40:29] btc_0193 : same here!
[2015-09-12 20:41:11] jillhomebrew619 : oh yea? 238.5 i bet
[2015-09-12 20:41:50] j8 : yup
[2015-09-12 20:44:43] zanza : some good volume today
[2015-09-12 20:47:51] jillhomebrew619 : nice... my order didn't fill there :(
[2015-09-12 20:47:56] jillhomebrew619 : how do u change ur chtaname
[2015-09-12 20:47:59] jillhomebrew619 : chat - name
[2015-09-12 20:51:13] j8 : try emailing support, i don't think there's a way on the site
[2015-09-12 20:52:11] belcher : join the irc channel
[2015-09-12 20:55:22] jill_ : how do i change my nickname
[2015-09-12 20:56:29] belcher : /nick imadick
[2015-09-12 21:01:08] jillhomebrew619 : /nick
[2015-09-12 21:01:13] jillhomebrew619 : its not bittrex
[2015-09-12 21:02:01] belcher : jill who joined had to say /nick
[2015-09-12 21:02:06] belcher : not jill on the bitmex website
[2015-09-12 21:05:13] zanza : Short attack
[2015-09-12 21:08:38] btc_0193 : jesus this site needs more players. im literally providing half of the bid-side order book on the xbtu15. all i deposited was TEN btc. place is awesome except its a ghost town.... plz get liquidity soon!!!
[2015-09-12 21:09:56] belcher : you're incentivized to spread the word with affiliate links
[2015-09-12 21:10:38] btc_0193 : i trade btc. i don't have any friends ;)
[2015-09-12 21:11:26] belcher : post on forums?
[2015-09-12 21:12:52] btc_0193 : its like a chicken / egg problem. im patient so i dont mind the spreads much, but others see it and run away. you need users to fix teh spread but to get users you gotta fix the spread. lol
[2015-09-12 21:13:16] belcher : futures are pretty easy to hedge
[2015-09-12 21:13:19] btc_0193 : that being said, I'm enjoying this more than OKC bucket shop
[2015-09-12 21:13:41] belcher : market makers could offer liquidity nearly riskless, its a kind of arbitrage
[2015-09-12 21:17:41] j8 : yeah i've been arbing pretty successfully, working towards automating the process
[2015-09-12 21:17:59] belcher : hedging futures is like 101 in any derivatives textbook
[2015-09-12 21:21:54] j8 : the biggest risk is the dreaded socialized losses
[2015-09-12 21:22:05] belcher : yep
[2015-09-12 21:23:23] j8 : also the most difficult to quantify that risk
[2015-09-12 21:23:45] belcher : yeah
[2015-09-12 21:23:55] belcher : isnt this company hosted on an island off the coast of africa?
[2015-09-12 21:24:04] j8 : seychelles
[2015-09-12 21:24:17] j8 : well, hosted in the cloud
[2015-09-12 21:24:38] j8 : registered in seychelles
[2015-09-12 21:24:44] belcher : market makers are providers, they need customers, so to increase liquidity find people who require hedging services
[2015-09-12 21:25:19] belcher : irl currency traders, they could hedge every tx and earn only their spread with barely any market risk
[2015-09-12 22:41:07] on247me : hi
[2015-09-13 03:26:10] on247 : hi
[2015-09-13 03:31:24] BitMEX_Arthur : Hi
[2015-09-13 04:37:07] krtek.net : o hai
[2015-09-13 04:38:32] on247me : so theres actually people there
[2015-09-13 04:38:46] miratrader : no, bots only
[2015-09-13 04:41:17] miratrader : there are real people trading but everyone in chat is definitely a bot :-)
[2015-09-13 05:37:19] priceaction : fleshbot intruder detected: miratrader
[2015-09-13 05:41:31] krtek.net : /me is looking for his old markov-chains "AI" eggdrop plugin....
[2015-09-13 09:38:18] lolcookie : someone eating the bids on XBT7D
[2015-09-13 09:59:11] gustavo7 : $24 spread on XBUZ15 lol
[2015-09-13 10:08:52] lolcookie : yeah I traded xbuz15 once
[2015-09-13 10:09:03] lolcookie : straight up money hole
[2015-09-13 10:19:38] BitMEX_Arthur : We are focusing our market makers on the XBT series first you should see liquidity improving this week
[2015-09-13 10:24:31] krtek.net : Do you have some special rates+rules for market makers?
[2015-09-13 10:25:34] BitMEX_Arthur : We offer free trading for market makers who agree to post a two sided market on at least one contract 24/7
[2015-09-13 10:25:50] BitMEX_Arthur : Using an automated trading bot
[2015-09-13 10:43:40] krtek.net : So in average at least one contract on each side for the whole 24/7? My bot is not stable enough for it to be able to stay in the book nonstop :)
[2015-09-13 10:56:32] BitMEX_Arthur : Well we don't have any fixed rules, but 1 contract a side wouldn't get your free trading
[2015-09-13 11:40:40] krtek.net : can you look at ETH7D book now?
[2015-09-13 11:44:04] krtek.net : I usually have 10 orders at each side, now ranging from 3 to 6 contracts.
[2015-09-13 11:44:44] BitMEX_Arthur : What about it
[2015-09-13 11:46:13] krtek.net : is that enough?
[2015-09-13 11:48:00] BitMEX_Arthur : Let's continue this conversation over email. I will message you.
[2015-09-13 11:48:38] krtek.net : okay :)
[2015-09-13 12:46:50] Myros27 : how can i activate two step autentikation?
[2015-09-13 14:14:25] zanza : install google authenticator
[2015-09-13 17:04:40] zanza : whoa big dumps today
[2015-09-13 17:13:10] BitMEX_Arthur : zanza: Yeah finally some action
[2015-09-13 17:13:17] BitMEX_Arthur : Last week was quite bor
[2015-09-13 17:13:23] BitMEX_Arthur : boring
[2015-09-13 17:14:08] lolcookie : well i hope we swing a bit more
[2015-09-13 17:14:30] lolcookie : not 30% a day swings though
[2015-09-13 17:14:52] BitMEX_Arthur : lolcookie: We love volatility here at BitMEX
[2015-09-13 17:29:09] DunningKruger : All about the volatility
[2015-09-13 17:30:07] DunningKruger : Wondering if this is the 228 bounce I was expecting.
[2015-09-13 17:40:50] doTheBounce : Hey, how can i see my last filled order ?
[2015-09-13 17:42:15] j8 : account -> trade history
[2015-09-13 17:42:43] j8 : or the Fills tab in advanced view
[2015-09-13 17:43:00] doTheBounce : fill tabs is not ordered by filled time
[2015-09-13 17:43:18] doTheBounce : thanks
[2015-09-13 17:43:21] j8 : thats right it's by order placement. trade history is by fill or partial fill
[2015-09-13 17:43:43] doTheBounce : filled tabs should be fixed
[2015-09-13 17:44:40] j8 : yeah i would prefer it ordered by time of fill also
[2015-09-14 13:40:17] zanza : morning
[2015-09-14 13:40:37] zanza : we hit 224 overnight?
[2015-09-14 13:41:54] DunningKruger : Good afternoon, yes we did this morning ;)
[2015-09-14 14:09:23] on247me : Any way to get my withdrawal faster
[2015-09-14 19:10:05] zanza : send arthur noodes
[2015-09-15 01:14:18] TrevinHofmann : BitMEX_Sam: back in MKE and just moved into an apartment, if you want to meet up at a Bitcoin meetup
[2015-09-15 01:15:04] TrevinHofmann : I'll probably start going again. How have they been? They were great in MKE when I started going, but started fading after $1200
[2015-09-15 01:16:25] BitMEX_Sam : TrevinHofmann: Yeah, they've calmed down a lot.
[2015-09-15 01:16:42] BitMEX_Sam : Only a few people. It's good if you like beer.
[2015-09-15 15:22:36] BitMEX_Arthur : https://blog.bitmex.com/bitcoin-futures-basis-trading-lesson-1/
[2015-09-15 15:22:40] BitMEX_Arthur : Some light reading for y'all
[2015-09-15 15:45:01] vbmithr : thanks
[2015-09-15 15:45:55] cengel : finance101 stuff
[2015-09-15 15:46:13] BitMEX_Arthur : Yep desperately needed for Bitcoin traders
[2015-09-15 15:46:23] cengel : true
[2015-09-15 17:56:25] rodrigobwn : Hi Arthur
[2015-09-15 17:56:31] rodrigobwn : Are your there?
[2015-09-15 17:58:21] BitMEX_Wally : rodrigobwn: Can I help?
[2015-09-15 17:59:23] rodrigobwn : I need to talk with Arthur or Sam, about bring an Exchange to be a partner of you guys
[2015-09-15 18:01:46] BitMEX_Wally : Great, they'll get in touch with you
[2015-09-15 20:55:58] vbmithr : Hi, anybody wants to test Sierra Chart to trade on bitmex ?
[2015-09-15 20:59:04] BitMEX_Sam : rodrigobwn: Feel free to email us, founders@bitmex.com
[2015-09-16 01:07:02] zanza : "Your deposit was successful." for some reason the top of my Dashboard is showing this message, even though I didn't make any recent deposits :o
[2015-09-16 02:35:53] lnovy : STRML: ^
[2015-09-16 02:41:21] BitMEX_Arthur : lnovy: Anything I can help with
[2015-09-16 02:42:23] krtek.net : what zanza is saying could be important
[2015-09-16 02:42:42] krtek.net : I highlighted sam just for sure
[2015-09-16 02:45:50] krtek.net : sorry about not answering to your mail, it's not yet important on either side :)
[2015-09-16 03:00:46] STRML : Thanks lnovy, will check it out, most likely just a message triggering error.
[2015-09-16 03:01:20] krtek.net : /me nods
[2015-09-16 03:04:18] zanza : maybe an angel investor is going to give us free deposit monies :D
[2015-09-16 05:08:25] germanjew : Great stuff: https://blog.bitmex.com/bitcoin-futures-basis-trading-lesson-1/ +1 for educating traders!
[2015-09-16 05:08:47] germanjew : looking forward to the next one
[2015-09-16 05:10:57] BitMEX_Arthur : https://blog.bitmex.com/hello-bitcoin-china-begins-actually-enforcing-capital-controls/
[2015-09-16 05:11:29] BitMEX_Arthur : Today's post
[2015-09-16 05:12:19] germanjew : Good stuff, thanks
[2015-09-16 05:22:45] j8 : BitMEX_Arthur: isn't the chinese double counting volume on futures only?
[2015-09-16 05:25:29] BitMEX_Arthur : They have admitted to it for futures
[2015-09-16 05:25:43] BitMEX_Arthur : But if you do it for futures you will do it for spot as well
[2015-09-16 05:32:19] j8 : not as far as i can see. the argument for doing it was for futures specifically. its a weak argument, anyhow
[2015-09-16 05:34:41] j8 : something about how 1 contract traded could represent 2 open positions, so they just choose that convention (mainly because their competitors do it)
[2015-09-16 05:39:36] j8 : anyway, bitcoinity sums the volume from trades, and the trade volume is not 2x the amount traded. they would get the right number for futures too (half the reported stats)
[2015-09-16 06:18:35] j8 : ok scratch that last part for futures, its in the trades, normal counting on spot though.
[2015-09-16 06:31:29] cengel : http://bravenewcoin.com/news/ledgerx-derivatives-exchange-to-offer-physically-settled-bitcoin-contracts-to-institutional-market/
[2015-09-16 06:31:59] cengel : how useful are derivatives that have no leverage?
[2015-09-16 06:33:45] cengel : their CEO ran quantitative cash trading desk at Goldman apparently
[2015-09-16 06:35:31] cengel : physical, unleverred contract settlement doesnt appeal to me at all
[2015-09-16 06:39:16] cengel : Arthur, any thoughts on this? I guess the only leverage is that implied in the options they're going to offer
[2015-09-16 06:56:08] BitMEX_Arthur : Yeah LedgerX ain't going to have any volume
[2015-09-16 06:58:26] BitMEX_Arthur : no of the bitcoin specs are going to trade options with no leverage
[2015-09-16 07:03:49] cengel : Unless they really sell the big players on it
[2015-09-16 07:11:31] BitMEX_Arthur : Yeah but with no liquididty
[2015-09-16 07:11:39] BitMEX_Arthur : GS vs JPM why do they need LedgerX
[2015-09-16 07:11:49] BitMEX_Arthur : just call up the guy at the other bank and trade otc
[2015-09-16 07:11:54] BitMEX_Arthur : then you don't have to trust a start up
[2015-09-16 07:12:38] BitMEX_Arthur : No market maker will make far dated or otm strikes if they have to fully delta hedge
[2015-09-16 08:04:49] uiop : BLACK HAWKS WINNNNNNNNNNN
[2015-09-16 08:05:13] uiop : ok i've taken ahold of myself
[2015-09-16 08:07:52] uiop : RE: options (i've read 2 lines lines of context, what could go wrong), atlasats's options market was ded
[2015-09-16 08:08:12] uiop : even with their like $100 strike increment
[2015-09-16 08:09:03] uiop : then during the bitcorn financial crisis of jan 2015 i think the the (singular) options mm
[2015-09-16 08:09:12] uiop : was swallowed by the abyss
[2015-09-16 08:09:13] uiop : rip
[2015-09-16 08:10:02] uiop : not that the abyaa wasnt gnawing at her before that
[2015-09-16 08:10:12] uiop : s/aa/ss/
[2015-09-16 08:11:53] uiop : i meant him, not her
[2015-09-16 08:13:16] uiop : triple negatives are the currency of crisis
[2015-09-16 08:14:52] uiop : WAIT DID I MEAN DOUBLE? I JUST DONT NO!
[2015-09-16 08:15:32] uiop : srsly tho, a liquid options market would be super cool
[2015-09-16 08:15:36] uiop : at least for buyers
[2015-09-16 08:15:46] uiop : rip sellers
[2015-09-16 08:16:23] uiop : in other words who would sell
[2015-09-16 08:16:36] uiop : maybe if they're euro
[2015-09-16 08:16:40] uiop : although atlas was euro
[2015-09-16 08:17:31] vbmithr : does atlas still exists ?
[2015-09-16 08:17:42] uiop : lol, i dont even know
[2015-09-16 08:18:03] uiop : rip
[2015-09-16 08:18:06] uiop : ip
[2015-09-16 08:20:12] BitMEX_Arthur : No they shut down
[2015-09-16 08:20:15] BitMEX_Arthur : the head MM died
[2015-09-16 08:20:21] BitMEX_Arthur : who was also a big investor
[2015-09-16 08:20:37] BitMEX_Arthur : I met him once, he was a nice guy
[2015-09-16 08:20:42] uiop : wow really?(!) too bad actually in seriousness
[2015-09-16 08:21:04] uiop : i thought it was super cool they had an a straight-faced options market
[2015-09-16 08:21:20] BitMEX_Arthur : uiop: Did you ever trade on it
[2015-09-16 08:22:20] uiop : no, just followed it. the huge strike increment turned me off, but i was very interested in its presence.
[2015-09-16 08:22:48] BitMEX_Arthur : uiop: That's the problem with options, lots of people interested in the presence but not to trade and pay fees
[2015-09-16 08:23:32] uiop : that's really too bad the mm got rektified. i remember a blog post by him. seemed like a legit mang.
[2015-09-16 08:23:53] BitMEX_Arthur : He was PM at a Boston based hedge fund
[2015-09-16 08:24:53] uiop : cool
[2015-09-16 08:26:01] uiop : BitMEX_Arthur: i would've traded it though with a smaller strike incrment, iirc it was literally like $100
[2015-09-16 08:26:29] uiop : and the spread was massive
[2015-09-16 08:27:08] uiop : chicken-and-egg, etc, but still
[2015-09-16 08:27:32] BitMEX_Arthur : It is hard enough explaining futures
[2015-09-16 08:27:40] BitMEX_Arthur : Options way to advanced the current crop of traders
[2015-09-16 08:33:01] uiop : i guess the specualtive-with-clawback-or-equivalent crypto options incarnation would be capped (or something) options (with cap determined by leverage/margin-requirement given to sellers?) ?
[2015-09-16 08:33:12] uiop : (as a thought experiment)
[2015-09-16 08:34:06] Myros27 : BitMEX_Arthur: i've ordered 700 XBT7D @ 232.10 when are they by 0?
[2015-09-16 08:34:36] Myros27 : => Autosell
[2015-09-16 08:36:14] BitMEX_Arthur : Myros27: I don't understand
[2015-09-16 08:36:30] Myros27 : i think leverage works as a credit
[2015-09-16 08:37:20] Myros27 : EG: I invest 100BT , you gave me 24BT => Leverage
[2015-09-16 08:37:30] Myros27 : *2400
[2015-09-16 08:37:47] Myros27 : i think thats how it works
[2015-09-16 08:38:07] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes 1 BTC of equity lets you control 25 BTC worth of futures
[2015-09-16 08:38:14] Myros27 : exact
[2015-09-16 08:38:32] Myros27 : and now lose worth
[2015-09-16 08:39:30] Myros27 : and if the worth is 0 you lose your 24 BTC
[2015-09-16 08:39:41] Myros27 : so that neve happend
[2015-09-16 08:39:59] BitMEX_Arthur : no we don't loan you money, everything is p2p
[2015-09-16 08:40:04] BitMEX_Arthur : each side puts up 4%
[2015-09-16 08:40:14] BitMEX_Arthur : if there were only two traders each putting up 4 BTC
[2015-09-16 08:40:20] BitMEX_Arthur : the max you could ever make is 4 BTC
[2015-09-16 08:40:28] BitMEX_Arthur : as that is the amount of equity in the system
[2015-09-16 08:40:46] Myros27 : i dont get it xD
[2015-09-16 08:41:03] Myros27 : my default-language is german
[2015-09-16 08:41:09] Myros27 : i have to translate xD
[2015-09-16 08:42:36] Myros27 : leverage works like a credit. Who give me that credit?
[2015-09-16 08:43:01] BitMEX_Arthur : yes in margin trading like on bitfinex you are correct
[2015-09-16 08:43:08] BitMEX_Arthur : in futures trading it's p2p
[2015-09-16 08:43:18] BitMEX_Arthur : peer 2 peer
[2015-09-16 08:43:46] uiop : Myros27: you and the opposite side of your trade agree to pay each other 25 times the actual percent change of the bitcoin price
[2015-09-16 08:44:32] uiop : Myros27: the leverage is a result only of you and your counterparty's agreement to do this
[2015-09-16 08:46:01] Myros27 : aaah
[2015-09-16 08:46:08] Myros27 : now it make sense xD
[2015-09-16 09:06:31] BitMEX_Arthur : Look at that 223 candle on Bitstamp
[2015-09-16 09:06:39] krtek.net : hell broke open :)
[2015-09-16 09:08:09] BitMEX_Arthur : Lets get some action
[2015-09-16 09:08:20] BitMEX_Arthur : I'm falling asleep looking at these charts
[2015-09-16 09:11:05] Myros27 : hahaha
[2015-09-16 09:14:13] Myros27 : krtek.net is funny
[2015-09-16 09:19:08] gustavo7 : other exchanges are dumping
[2015-09-16 09:19:24] Myros27 : i feel it
[2015-09-16 09:19:31] Myros27 : i play this the first time
[2015-09-16 09:19:41] Myros27 : i buy for 232.11
[2015-09-16 09:20:41] gustavo7 : welp okcoin CNY 1470 = USD 230 so they just adjusted their premium
[2015-09-16 09:28:39] gustavo7 : Myros did you buy xbt weekly or longer?
[2015-09-16 09:30:23] Myros27 : i dont know
[2015-09-16 09:30:34] Myros27 : i invested at XBT7D
[2015-09-16 09:30:46] gustavo7 : that's weekly
[2015-09-16 09:30:50] Myros27 : ok :-)
[2015-09-16 09:31:16] gustavo7 : then you could try scalping it up (selling) to 236 but i wouldn't go long-term long now
[2015-09-16 09:32:11] gustavo7 : but i guess you have your own idea xD
[2015-09-16 09:32:17] Myros27 : nope
[2015-09-16 09:32:18] gustavo7 : i'm just a permabear
[2015-09-16 09:32:30] Myros27 : i have ordered that
[2015-09-16 09:32:38] Myros27 : XBT7D -700 236.00
[2015-09-16 09:32:45] Myros27 : XBT7D -700 236.00
[2015-09-16 09:32:53] Myros27 : thats a good idea
[2015-09-16 09:34:53] gustavo7 : i'm only on the hedging contracts anyway, so good luck
[2015-09-16 09:35:21] Myros27 : whats the difference? the leverage?
[2015-09-16 09:36:09] DunningKruger : Yeah we were parked at 228 to let all the passengers to board. Now moving on to Dumpsville, BTC.
[2015-09-16 09:36:27] gustavo7 : Myros27: it's more complicated than that
[2015-09-16 09:36:33] Myros27 : okk
[2015-09-16 09:38:27] gustavo7 : basically it's not only for hedging but if you hedge (short) more than you have you can make more than shorting XBT, because the profit calculation is non-linear
[2015-09-16 09:41:26] DunningKruger : Ah, just spotted the Recent and All buttons on the ticker board. more handiness.
[2015-09-16 11:06:10] lolcookie : welp there goes coiin
[2015-09-16 12:26:11] cryptosys : Why is the blog only in Chinese now?
[2015-09-16 12:32:40] STRML : cryptosys: That was unintentional, a Chinese post got flagged as English
[2015-09-16 12:33:24] STRML : Are you seeing the whole blog in Chinese or just the one post?
[2015-09-16 12:34:53] cryptosys : Probably just that post. I refreshed the page from yesterday. Saw the Chinese and tried toggling the language button.
[2015-09-16 12:35:17] cryptosys : Didn't make it that far down the page before you fixed it.
[2015-09-16 12:38:11] STRML : Ah great.
[2015-09-16 12:42:42] mitzip : what are the pink orders in "Recent Trades"?
[2015-09-16 12:47:10] STRML : I don't see them as pink, do you mean the ones with the smaller downward arrow?
[2015-09-16 12:47:32] STRML : We distinguish between buys and sells that move the price and those that don't.
[2015-09-16 12:48:19] cryptosys : arrows mean the price moved. dashes mean just nibbled an order?
[2015-09-16 12:49:30] STRML : Exactly
[2015-09-16 12:51:45] gustavo7 : lol the TA from the bitmex blog
[2015-09-16 12:51:57] gustavo7 : long for 5 dollars here with a 1 dollar stop
[2015-09-16 14:28:38] DunningKruger : I'm out until we see a meaningful swing. Prob downwards.
[2015-09-16 14:29:30] DunningKruger : But with a cheeky set of bids in the low, low 200s
[2015-09-16 14:44:31] lolcookie : lol
[2015-09-16 14:44:41] lolcookie : cheeky bids are good stuff
[2015-09-16 14:45:04] cryptosys : cheeky bids make sexy fills
[2015-09-16 14:45:35] lolcookie : pity spot drops like 10% below bids and no one fills
[2015-09-16 14:45:48] lolcookie : and you scream at the books
[2015-09-16 16:10:28] BitMEX_Arthur : Stamp is quite shakey
[2015-09-16 18:06:23] DunningKruger : lolcookie: too true
[2015-09-16 18:26:55] zanza : s&p almost 2k!
[2015-09-16 18:28:21] mitzip : I've been calling for a new all time high on S&P by oct and then the real crash starts... that's my wild theory anyway
[2015-09-16 18:29:12] lolcookie : does s&p ATH affect bitcoin?
[2015-09-16 18:51:47] zanza : who knows
[2015-09-16 18:56:34] lolcookie : 7D is pretty bullish
[2015-09-16 19:07:37] DunningKruger : Well the earlier ATH this year didn't really. I think a lot of potential interest in crypto from the public has faded for now and only the hardcore remain. That's not to say it won't change though. The LTC pump and dump drew in a lot of Chinese "investors".
[2015-09-16 19:43:08] zanza : honestly this block size split really brought out the worst in the community and fragmented imo
[2015-09-16 19:43:32] zanza : that looks bad for potential "investors"
[2015-09-16 19:50:45] DunningKruger : Yeah it did indeed. Looks like finance is stealing the blockchain now and sticking two fingers up to Bitcoin itself.
[2015-09-16 20:32:46] DunningKruger : Sub 200 again before too long.
[2015-09-16 22:11:43] mitzip : nah
[2015-09-16 22:13:57] mitzip : the value of btc doesn't come from them using it... the more regs they put on the legacy system and the more they screw the little guy... the more useful btc is and more demand for it... the crypto Pandora's box has been opened ;)
[2015-09-16 23:17:30] belcher : https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3l844m/email_from_cftc_asking_about_bitfinex_trading/
[2015-09-16 23:42:50] williamdunne : Is bitmex going to allow settlements via cryptocapital soon?
[2015-09-17 00:07:00] BitMEX_Arthur : belcher: Oh boy
[2015-09-17 02:25:02] zanza : you will get a flood of new custoemrs here if anything happens to Finex
[2015-09-17 02:31:25] BitMEX_Arthur : williamdunne: Adding fiat to our exchange is not on the near term horizon
[2015-09-17 04:21:19] zanza : smart move
[2015-09-17 04:27:46] BitMEX_Arthur : Fiat is the root of all evil in crypto
[2015-09-17 04:30:46] zanza : Bitpay hacked! wouldn't be a price crash without a major player getting hacked or shut down
[2015-09-17 04:44:53] BitMEX_Arthur : Yeah 1.8mm
[2015-09-17 04:45:01] BitMEX_Arthur : they have been awfully quiet lately
[2015-09-17 04:45:09] BitMEX_Arthur : you used to hear stuff from them at regular intervals
[2015-09-17 05:11:20] priceaction : bitfinex in trouble https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3l844m/email_from_cftc_asking_about_bitfinex_trading/
[2015-09-17 05:11:41] BitMEX_Arthur : priceaction: What are your thoughts
[2015-09-17 05:11:44] BitMEX_Arthur : FUD or truth?
[2015-09-17 05:13:18] priceaction : if even the bitfinex bug & bitcoinmarkets mod thinks it's not fud it's a dead giveaway
[2015-09-17 05:13:26] priceaction : Taylorvongrela
[2015-09-17 05:13:43] priceaction : he deleted the post initially but changed his mind
[2015-09-17 05:13:49] priceaction : https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/3l82c5/email_from_cftc_regarding_bitfinex_trading/cv42e0o
[2015-09-17 05:15:04] priceaction : the legal question is one thing, the bigger issue is the signal it sends to the last fools on that exchange, time to run
[2015-09-17 05:16:24] BitMEX_Arthur : yeah
[2015-09-17 05:16:28] BitMEX_Arthur : better safe than sorry
[2015-09-17 05:17:03] priceaction : some serious traders are furious and this is the beginning of retaliation
[2015-09-17 05:18:04] priceaction : however lets assume glitchfinex does indeed close i could imagine btc taking another dive
[2015-09-17 05:18:24] BitMEX_Arthur : i don't think it's anywhere close to that
[2015-09-17 05:18:31] BitMEX_Arthur : Their bank is in Taiwan
[2015-09-17 05:18:37] BitMEX_Arthur : USG can't really touch it
[2015-09-17 05:18:49] BitMEX_Arthur : and they have a shit ton of accounts set up in asia
[2015-09-17 05:18:51] priceaction : Taiwan? i thought Hong Kong
[2015-09-17 05:18:54] BitMEX_Arthur : no
[2015-09-17 05:18:56] BitMEX_Arthur : Taiwan
[2015-09-17 05:18:58] priceaction : ok
[2015-09-17 05:18:59] BitMEX_Arthur : moved a while ago
[2015-09-17 05:20:03] priceaction : biftinex lost a lot of volume last month and customers are still leaving, so at one point they will have to cut costs somewhere
[2015-09-17 05:20:36] priceaction : and firing devs to fix the myriad bicoinica holes wouldn't help the matter
[2015-09-17 05:22:18] priceaction : they went from 30% marketshare of btc-usd trade to around 10%
[2015-09-17 05:22:18] priceaction : https://data.bitcoinity.org/markets/volume/3d/USD?c=e&t=a
[2015-09-17 05:22:46] priceaction : BitMEX_Arthur: well it's good for you either way it goes:)
[2015-09-17 05:23:06] BitMEX_Arthur : We welcome more volume and liquidity
[2015-09-17 05:23:15] BitMEX_Arthur : you will notice we have some new market maker
[2015-09-17 05:23:20] BitMEX_Arthur : on XBT series making things tighter
[2015-09-17 05:23:24] BitMEX_Arthur : and volumes are increasing
[2015-09-17 05:25:43] priceaction : are the chinese biting?
[2015-09-17 05:26:18] BitMEX_Arthur : We are spending time with the right KOL here
[2015-09-17 05:26:24] BitMEX_Arthur : and will be launching some China focused products
[2015-09-17 05:26:32] BitMEX_Arthur : v soon
[2015-09-17 05:26:48] BitMEX_Arthur : but number one thing is liquidity
[2015-09-17 05:27:02] BitMEX_Arthur : and you should start seeing even more quotes next week after FOMC
[2015-09-17 05:28:12] priceaction : interest rates hike?
[2015-09-17 05:29:48] BitMEX_Arthur : I have no clue
[2015-09-17 05:29:55] BitMEX_Arthur : but no trading is happening until that meeting is over tonight
[2015-09-17 05:32:00] priceaction : but after that lots of action
[2015-09-17 05:32:19] BitMEX_Arthur : For Bitcoin in general is my prediction
[2015-09-17 05:34:18] priceaction : ok so lets say rates hike, that means lower usd-btc vol, but that means also chinese will buy more btc because of cny capital flight
[2015-09-17 05:40:55] BitMEX_Arthur : well i think global markets will tank
[2015-09-17 05:41:08] BitMEX_Arthur : initially BTC will get crushed as well, then rally hard
[2015-09-17 05:41:19] BitMEX_Arthur : we could see a period of sub $200
[2015-09-17 05:41:31] BitMEX_Arthur : maybe sub $100 if things really get crazy
[2015-09-17 05:41:36] BitMEX_Arthur : but then a glorious bull market
[2015-09-17 05:42:18] BitMEX_Arthur : short answer is i have no clue, but i'm ready for whatever
[2015-09-17 05:42:28] BitMEX_Arthur : longer term either financial collapse or more qe, either way good for bitcoin
[2015-09-17 05:42:32] BitMEX_Arthur : in a 6mo time frame
[2015-09-17 05:42:53] BitMEX_Arthur : what ain't good is this low volatility shit
[2015-09-17 05:42:55] BitMEX_Arthur : people are bored
[2015-09-17 05:42:58] BitMEX_Arthur : need to wake them up
[2015-09-17 05:45:08] priceaction : agree with all points:)
[2015-09-17 05:46:38] priceaction : i was lucky to catch some btc at 205, so i hope there will be some more
[2015-09-17 05:53:50] priceaction : ok time to make some fiat:( ciao
[2015-09-17 05:54:11] BitMEX_Arthur : see ya
[2015-09-17 07:10:31] hj5497 : who has the best troll box?
[2015-09-17 07:10:53] hj5497 : and who has the worst?
[2015-09-17 07:10:55] hj5497 : opinions?
[2015-09-17 07:19:49] Matthew.v : rigt here
[2015-09-17 07:58:17] BitMEX_Arthur : FOMC calls please
[2015-09-17 07:58:57] cloud : my FOMC call is - we are all proper fucked
[2015-09-17 07:59:16] BitMEX_Arthur : Raise, hold steady, more qe?
[2015-09-17 08:12:18] Matthew.v : cloud why u no in whale co?
[2015-09-17 08:19:26] DunningKruger : Any trollbox not worthy of the name trollbox is the best IMO.
[2015-09-17 08:25:11] BitMEX_Arthur : China down 2% today
[2015-09-17 08:25:15] BitMEX_Arthur : tonight is going to be interesting
[2015-09-17 08:30:54] Myros : why?
[2015-09-17 08:31:02] Myros : trubble because chine
[2015-09-17 08:31:11] Myros : do you think it will go up or down?
[2015-09-17 08:31:34] BitMEX_Arthur : I have no clue what will happen tonight
[2015-09-17 08:31:44] Myros : try it xD
[2015-09-17 08:32:00] Myros : what do you think
[2015-09-17 08:32:30] BitMEX_Arthur : In my mind it's 50/50
[2015-09-17 08:32:34] Myros : haha
[2015-09-17 08:32:39] BitMEX_Arthur : whether the fed will raise or not
[2015-09-17 08:32:44] BitMEX_Arthur : so i really am shooting in the dark
[2015-09-17 08:32:55] Myros : in my mind its 75/25 for up
[2015-09-17 08:33:04] BitMEX_Arthur : I hope they raise
[2015-09-17 08:33:19] BitMEX_Arthur : It will unleash volatility back into Bitcoin
[2015-09-17 08:33:19] Myros : i think they seach for alternative money => BTC
[2015-09-17 08:33:38] BitMEX_Arthur : Well I don't think it will be that straight forward
[2015-09-17 08:33:51] BitMEX_Arthur : BTC could collapse very low before it goes up
[2015-09-17 08:33:54] BitMEX_Arthur : after a rate hike
[2015-09-17 08:33:55] Myros : i dont get "volatility"
[2015-09-17 08:34:03] BitMEX_Arthur : price movements
[2015-09-17 08:34:08] Myros : ok
[2015-09-17 08:36:37] DunningKruger : Myros: how big the sudden movements are basically.
[2015-09-17 08:37:09] DunningKruger : Myros: investopedia.com is great for the basics.
[2015-09-17 08:37:48] Myros : i come from germany, my english is not great
[2015-09-17 08:38:20] BitMEX_Arthur : If you go an educational german financial site search for volatility
[2015-09-17 08:38:24] BitMEX_Arthur : will give you the definition
[2015-09-17 08:40:40] Myros : now i get it (a bix )
[2015-09-17 13:04:20] BombaUcigasa : ETH spread is 20%...
[2015-09-17 13:36:55] cryptojoe : BitMEX_Arthur: yes volatility would be nice for us traders. what time is the fed meeting or yellen's announcement. And where can one hear it in real time.
[2015-09-17 13:46:24] cryptojoe : found it: http://www.ustream.tv/federalreserve
[2015-09-17 13:53:38] cryptojoe : also the fed has a youtube channel. i imagine they'll stream from there.
[2015-09-17 14:32:31] DunningKruger : C ome on, XBTU15 barely $2 over spot?
[2015-09-17 15:32:16] j8 : it will be the weekly tomorrow so thats pretty normal
[2015-09-17 15:53:48] DunningKruger : OK
[2015-09-17 16:03:10] cryptojoe : DunningKruger: too many people think it will go down in a couple hours if/when Yellen announces rate hikes
[2015-09-17 16:08:23] DunningKruger : Yeah, makes sense
[2015-09-17 18:05:20] DunningKruger : No rise then.
[2015-09-17 18:05:37] cryptosys : Nope
[2015-09-17 18:06:47] BitMEX_Arthur : See what happens in the conference
[2015-09-17 18:08:51] cryptojoe : Does this mean more stability and yawning
[2015-09-17 18:09:17] BitMEX_Arthur : We should have 3 weeks of action then another snore week before oct meeting
[2015-09-17 18:11:18] cryptojoe : BitMEX_Arthur: Would you predict we'll get into the low 220s in the next few days?
[2015-09-17 18:11:32] BitMEX_Arthur : No ide
[2015-09-17 18:11:35] BitMEX_Arthur : idea
[2015-09-17 18:11:41] BitMEX_Arthur : Still have the see what they say at the conference
[2015-09-17 18:11:55] BitMEX_Arthur : But it would seem we broke out of the $223-$230 range
[2015-09-17 18:16:59] gustavo7 : so 1501 CNY and walls on both sides? what is this?