This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2016-08-17 22:14:48] BitMEX_Greg : Thedude: The market dictates the funding unfortunately.
[2016-08-17 22:15:10] Thedude : no you changed the system the old system was simple and easy and gave fair low fee's
[2016-08-17 22:15:28] Thedude : you cant expect trader to caugh up 14% interest a month...
[2016-08-17 22:15:46] Thedude : thats 168% interest per year
[2016-08-17 22:16:01] Thedude : Now I understand why my wallet balance has been decling so hard
[2016-08-17 22:16:18] BitMEX_Sam : Thedude: That's pretty normal in crypto funding, there are similar rates in margin funding on other sites especially during FOMO
[2016-08-17 22:16:25] BitMEX_Sam : If you think the rate is high, it is quite profitable then to short.
[2016-08-17 22:16:32] BitMEX_Greg : Thedude: There was sufficient notice informing everyone of these changes.
[2016-08-17 22:17:02] Thedude : BitMEX_Sam: Even on maddness FOMO on polo with almost no BTC avaiable rates didnt go up this high.
[2016-08-17 22:17:26] Thedude : There is not enough liquidity on the ETH/XBT pair for this type of funding premium is almost always active
[2016-08-17 22:17:39] Thedude : not enough traders to close the gap between bitmex contract price and spot
[2016-08-17 22:18:25] zanza : are you short Thedude ?
[2016-08-17 22:19:47] Thedude : zanza: No I wasnt
[2016-08-17 22:20:03] zanza : so you were long ETH/XBT?
[2016-08-17 22:20:31] Thedude : zanza: Yes
[2016-08-17 22:20:35] micmix : yeah, funding fees are insane on all alts. if you don't need higher leverage Polo is a better option for longer-term trades
[2016-08-17 22:20:39] zanza : .1588% is the next funding rate
[2016-08-17 22:20:51] zanza : and the next one is -.19
[2016-08-17 22:21:05] BitMEX_Sam : zanza: That's indicative, it won't be finalized for 6 hours
[2016-08-17 22:21:48] jesperf : Thedude: i've found the new system to be quite profitable. i don't enter a position if I am about to pay funding fees. I see it as a way to get my taker fees prepaid for when I want to exit my position.
[2016-08-17 22:22:09] Tetsuo : in sideways markets u will get rekt in here , no matter what
[2016-08-17 22:23:23] Thedude : jesperf: @Tetsuo Clearly the system doesnt work for low liquidity pairs since premium rates seem to be almost always on. Its way to much.
[2016-08-17 22:23:54] Tetsuo : yep
[2016-08-17 22:26:44] Tetsuo : in the meanwhile, buy all the BTC, short all the ETH
[2016-08-17 22:26:50] Thedude : BitMEX_Sam: @BitMEX_Greg In the blog it states these mesuares were taking aimed at the XBT/USD pair why did they get added to the altcoins aswell? It cant be intentional to have such high funding rates on alt pairs right? Its impossible to keep positions open with daily fees being nearly 0,5% its insane. If I had know this I wouldnt have used Bitmex recently. Can't use a speculative contract with fees this high.
[2016-08-17 22:28:49] Thedude : If it was an incidental daily anomaly that occured once every 2/3 months that would be okay but paying fees this high on average is insane. You need to be making at least 14% a month profit just to break even thats not sustainable.
[2016-08-17 22:30:29] Tetsuo : +10
[2016-08-17 22:31:53] Thedude : cant believe i've paid this much fees already now I understand why my wallet balance has gone down this quickly.
[2016-08-17 22:32:32] BitMEX_Greg : Thedude: We notified all users that we were putting the premium index on all swaps back on June 17. Specifically: "As a result, the following changes will be effective 24 June 2016 12:00 UTC: ​ All swap contracts will use their respective premium index to calculate the funding rate. All swap contracts will charge funding every 8 hours. All swap contracts will rebalance daily at 12:00 UTC."
[2016-08-17 22:32:59] BitMEX_Greg : The title of the email was " Important Changes to BitMEX Swap Products" if you wish to go back through your email to check.
[2016-08-17 22:34:12] Thedude : BitMEX_Greg: To be honest you guys spam alot but it being mentioned is besides the point. The question i'm asking is do you feel the current system is working as intented if funding rates are this high on average?
[2016-08-17 22:36:01] BitMEX_Greg : Thedude: I disagree with you regarding the spam. I can see you are frustrated here. We are going to have a review of the products
[2016-08-17 22:36:30] Thedude : From what I understand the changes are aimed at bringing spot prices more in line with index prices but if the end result is just insanely high funding rates and spot prices still being off that something is amis no?
[2016-08-17 22:36:42] zanza : XBT is quanto right? Quantos always carry a premium
[2016-08-17 22:37:31] zanza : right now spot is about .3% from index
[2016-08-17 22:37:38] zanza : I'd say that is a close range
[2016-08-17 22:37:57] Thedude : BitMEX_Greg: I'm not saying you guys havent mentioned it properly cause i'm sure you have its my fault for not noticing but I cant see these rates being sustainable for anyone who wants to have a position open longer then a few hours.
[2016-08-17 22:38:34] zanza : that is how futures work Thedude. You can buy OKCoin quarterlies and they will have maybe 25% premium
[2016-08-17 22:39:13] BitMEX_Greg : Thedude: Yes I can see that it can be disadvantageous for different types of users. We are going to discuss various methods of making it less costly for users like yourself.
[2016-08-17 22:39:22] zanza : and as mentioned, you could always play the reverse side if you think that is more profitable
[2016-08-17 22:39:52] zanza : so you would gain 14% per month or whatever
[2016-08-17 22:40:20] BitMEX_Greg : zanza: Some users are not interested in the arbitrage of it, but rather for hedging
[2016-08-17 22:40:30] BitMEX_Greg : Or other purposes
[2016-08-17 22:40:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `FCTXBT`: Buy 50 @ 0.003883
[2016-08-17 22:41:01] Muhammed : Eth to 0.016? What do you guys think?
[2016-08-17 22:41:09] zanza : well if he was complaining about paying 14% per month, then wouldn't he be happy receiving 14% per month ?
[2016-08-17 22:41:21] zanza : because its 0 sum
[2016-08-17 22:44:13] Thedude : BitMEX_Greg: @zanza The old system was fine I dont understand why it was changed for the ETH/XBT contract. Fees were reasonable and predictable and spot prices were just as close to index price as they are now.
[2016-08-17 22:44:54] Thedude : zanza: It would be nice to take a position based on your market prediction instead of based on the exuberant funding fees.
[2016-08-17 22:45:56] zanza : people like to use higher leverage, and didn't like long dated futures
[2016-08-17 22:46:10] zanza : you can view the volume to see what people wanted
[2016-08-17 22:46:27] Thedude : zanza: How does this enable higher leverage?
[2016-08-17 22:46:38] BitMEX_Greg : Thedude: I believe it was done in anticipation to avoid any situations like we encountered with XBTUSD, whereby the swap was trading at a huge premium yet funding rates weren't high enough to incentivise shorts into the market.
[2016-08-17 22:46:48] premjeraz : btc going to 565?
[2016-08-17 22:46:51] zanza : also, you can still use the 30 Sep contract if you prefer that type of future
[2016-08-17 22:47:04] Thedude : zanza: I think volume is mostly tied to good liquidity which comes with a product with good funding prices.
[2016-08-17 22:47:27] Thedude : zanza: There is no 30 sep contract for ETH
[2016-08-17 22:48:32] zanza : funding rate is 0 sum game
[2016-08-17 22:48:51] zanza : futures will always trade at some type of premium or discount
[2016-08-17 22:49:30] Thedude : BitMEX_Greg: I understand but instead it created these massive average funding fees. Revert back to the old system and make sure you keep the market maker bots going. The product currently is fine except for the fees. Also add an option in the risk limit window that avoids the engine to adjust the risk limiti and thereby the liquidity price when checked to avoid the situation i'm currently in.
[2016-08-17 22:50:22] Thedude : zanza: Yes but prices need to be reasonable (the old system was perfect) not unsustainable.
[2016-08-17 22:51:59] BitMEX_Greg : Thedude: Did you see the email response I sent you about your risk limit question?
[2016-08-17 22:52:06] Thedude : zanza: I dont think Bitmex intented for funding rates to become this high.
[2016-08-17 22:52:19] BitMEX_Greg : Thedude: We are looking into other methods for these alts.
[2016-08-17 22:52:27] Thedude : BitMEX_Greg: Yes I saw it few mintions ago and I responded ont he ticket
[2016-08-17 22:54:02] Thedude : BitMEX_Greg: Why not go back to the old system? That always worked great, funding rates were predictable and affordable. I would love to keep using bitmex but I cant afford to pay 0.45% a day to keep a long open.
[2016-08-17 23:00:06] lockhedge : Thedude: why don't you buy spot and short the swap? change your strategy from directional bets to arbitrage
[2016-08-17 23:00:19] BitMEX_Greg : Thedude: We need to make sure the system is fair for every type of user. As I said we are currently looking into other possibilities right now.
[2016-08-17 23:01:43] Thedude : zanza: For example lets say you have 10 BTC in your account and you use the ETH/XBT contract to take on a 10x leveraged 100 BTC position. Based on the last 9 days you'd be looking at 14 BTC in funding fees to keep this position open for just 1 month. Thats not a tradeable product in my opinion.
[2016-08-17 23:02:38] BitMEX_Greg : Thedude: If you had reversed the trade, you could have made 14 BTC in the past 9 days
[2016-08-17 23:02:57] Thedude : BitMEX_Greg: I understand but how was the old system not fair? Who was being harmed?
[2016-08-17 23:03:33] Thedude : BitMEX_Greg: Yes I know, and If I had know I'd be getting a 14% interest rate on my leveraged position I would have been short as hell.
[2016-08-17 23:06:14] BitMEX_Greg : Thedude: As I said, precautions were taken to avoid an event that we experienced on XBTUSD: a market trading at an extreme premium with no one willing to short, that could encourage extremely high DPE risk. ETH and all alt products are much more volatile than XBT, so the shift was not made in vain.
[2016-08-17 23:07:11] BitMEX_Greg : Thedude: I can't say much here except to read our announcements. Apart from the newsletter, the announcements are made when important changes are done to the site or products
[2016-08-17 23:08:53] Thedude : BitMEX_Greg: I understand but is the current situation running as intenteded? Seems to me a product that pretty much never had DPE enabled and had cheap funding rates for longs and a nice bonus funding rate for shorts changed into a product where being long is now unsustainable and being short is insanely profitable.
[2016-08-17 23:10:48] BitMEX_Greg : Thedude: Seems we are going in circles here. As I stated, we understand your frustration, and we are looking into it.
[2016-08-17 23:12:06] Thedude : BitMEX_Greg: Hope you guys fix it, would love to go long again at some point in the future but with the current funding rates thats impossible. I replied to the ticket again btw.
[2016-08-17 23:13:05] BitMEX_Greg : Thedude: We'll make an announcement if we do. :)
[2016-08-17 23:14:50] Rizky : hi Greg! on that note, which index am I looking at to see what was actually paid/debited for historic funding
[2016-08-17 23:16:00] Thedude : Rizky: Yes and overvieuw would be nice, I think most people dont realize how much funding they are paying at the moment.
[2016-08-17 23:16:02] BitMEX_Greg : Rizky: For your own positions?
[2016-08-17 23:16:21] Rizky : just in general
[2016-08-17 23:16:24] BitMEX_Greg : You can view this in your Trade History: https://www.bitmex.com/app/tradeHistory
[2016-08-17 23:16:27] Rizky : not necessarily my positions
[2016-08-17 23:17:04] lockhedge : https://www.bitmex.com/app/fundingHistory
[2016-08-17 23:17:07] BitMEX_Greg : Take a look at the indices under the Contracts Tab
[2016-08-17 23:17:21] BitMEX_Greg : Yes, or the funding history, thanks @lockhedge
[2016-08-17 23:17:56] Rizky : yes see funding history thank
[2016-08-17 23:18:51] Rizky : but for contracts, which specifically? or is it combo of the 8H's?
[2016-08-17 23:20:02] BitMEX_Greg : That page shows all the contracts. You can individually select a contract by clicking on that particular symbol.
[2016-08-17 23:20:45] BitMEX_Greg : The funding rate displayed is the 8 hour rate
[2016-08-17 23:22:20] Rizky : the last funding was -.0624% for XBTUSD I see that on funding history
[2016-08-17 23:22:43] Rizky : where can I see that by clicking on contracts
[2016-08-17 23:23:28] Thedude : BitMEX_Greg: I responded again.
[2016-08-17 23:23:38] BitMEX_Greg : Rizky: https://www.bitmex.com/app/fundingHistory
[2016-08-17 23:23:46] BitMEX_Greg : Enter this into the box: {"symbol":"XBTUSD"}
[2016-08-17 23:23:58] BitMEX_Greg : You will see this: Timestamp Symbol Funding Interval Funding Rate Funding Rate Daily 2016-08-17 16:00:00 XBTUSD every 8 hours -0.0624% -0.1872%
[2016-08-17 23:24:00] Rizky : (y)
[2016-08-17 23:24:05] Rizky : got it
[2016-08-17 23:25:00] micmix : BitMEX_Greg: funding rate calculations definitely need adjustment for lower liquidity alts. when MM is quoting 1% spread and moves quotes 1-2% around spot, the current funding index jumps like crazy
[2016-08-17 23:26:20] omicron : ETHXBT seems to be a bigger contract size
[2016-08-17 23:26:38] jonny : 1 = 1eth
[2016-08-17 23:27:27] Thedude : micmix: Look at the rates for the alts it seems to be around 0,5-1,5% daily funding rate lol........Anyone long any alt is bleeding funding like crazy this is insane.
[2016-08-17 23:27:59] omicron : i dont get why there needs to be funding for derivatives
[2016-08-17 23:28:15] omicron : i can totally understand it for spot/margin/borrowing
[2016-08-17 23:28:31] omicron : wtf are we borrowing here? why is there a need for funding
[2016-08-17 23:29:33] omicron : don't want to piss all over bitmex in this trollbox, perhaps i could send an email. who is the designer of these contracts? is it bitmex_wally?
[2016-08-17 23:29:46] nip : omicron: yes
[2016-08-17 23:29:46] micmix : Thedude: I agree, alt swaps don't really work as designed
[2016-08-17 23:29:57] Rizky : omicron: that's standard, not a BitMex invention
[2016-08-17 23:29:58] BitMEX_Greg : omicron: Funding exists because it is a swap product. This is similar to why futures usually price higher than spot because of interest / funding.
[2016-08-17 23:30:35] omicron : futures have a premium, they dont have funding
[2016-08-17 23:30:41] BitMEX_Greg : This has been the staple of financial product invention over the past 100 years
[2016-08-17 23:30:46] Rizky : same thing it's implicit tho
[2016-08-17 23:30:56] nip : yeah and the premium is like 1% a month not 1% a day
[2016-08-17 23:30:58] BitMEX_Greg : omicron: They have a premium because of funding due to no arbitrage theory
[2016-08-17 23:31:15] lockhedge : micmix: do you see any other solution than "more liquidity"?
[2016-08-17 23:31:42] micmix : lockhedge: yes, funding index should take into account average spread
[2016-08-17 23:32:17] omicron : BitMEX_Greg: staple of invention? not sure what that means, but can you provide a reference so I can educate myself? It would make me (and others here) better traders and we wont be pissed because we didnt know what we were trading
[2016-08-17 23:32:41] omicron : by reference i dont mean your website. i meant in the financial literature
[2016-08-17 23:33:11] BitMEX_Greg : omicron: Sorry it is not our job to educate traders how to trade. Please use google or join some trading forums.
[2016-08-17 23:33:21] Rizky : zing
[2016-08-17 23:34:20] micmix : lockhedge: current calculation is designed to keep XBTUSD 1-2% within spot and average spread is around 0.15%. it's not realistic to keep ETHXBT 1-2% withing spot when the average spread is 1%
[2016-08-17 23:35:17] omicron : Bitmex_Greg: love your attitude towards customers.
[2016-08-17 23:35:33] micmix : the funding calculations have to be scaled down by a factor of 5 at least with the goal to keep ETHXBT within 3-5%
[2016-08-17 23:36:31] omicron : Google results: No results found for "staple of financial product invention".
[2016-08-17 23:36:43] BitMEX_Greg : omicron: I'm just being honest. I can point you to a dozen textbooks or trading forums but at the end of the day we are providing a tool.
[2016-08-17 23:37:06] BitMEX_Greg : If our product was education then we would not be running an exchange.
[2016-08-17 23:37:39] Thedude : micmix: I think its pretty obvious that Bitmex didnt think this chance though. Doesnt work for alt funding spread is to big.
[2016-08-17 23:38:54] micmix : BitMEX_Greg: I'm pretty sure that funding based on premium index is BitMEX invention. I'm not familiar with anything like that in traditional finance.
[2016-08-17 23:39:07] BitMEX_Greg : omicron: Here's a free tidbit: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0136015867/?tag=internationassoc
[2016-08-17 23:39:39] BitMEX_Greg : This is known as the bible in the finance world.
[2016-08-17 23:39:51] BitMEX_Arthur : micmix: Would you rather a fixed expiry future that trades at a 10% premium or discount or a swap with variable funding?
[2016-08-17 23:40:16] BitMEX_Arthur : It's same same, but if fixed expiry for alts makes it more palatable to pay high rates then that is something we must investigate
[2016-08-17 23:40:19] lockhedge : micmix: they would probably have to increase the maintenance margin and/or DPE risk will rise if the goal is 3-5%
[2016-08-17 23:40:21] omicron : BitMEX_Greg: Thanks. I will read it. See? it was totally unnecessary to display attitude.
[2016-08-17 23:41:07] micmix : BitMEX_Arthur: yes, I will take predictability of known premium for a fixed expiry contract, makes it much easier
[2016-08-17 23:41:10] Thedude : BitMEX_Arthur: Cleary current funding rates for alts are unsustainable paying between 0,5-1,5% a day is insane.
[2016-08-17 23:41:41] Thedude : BitMEX_Arthur: And I dont understand why the product was changed cause previous rates were great.
[2016-08-17 23:41:42] BitMEX_Arthur : micmix: Ok thanks for that feedback
[2016-08-17 23:41:50] BitMEX_Greg : omicron: Apologies if I came across with an attitude, but in this day and age everything is available online. I am sure you can find that textbook as a pdf somewhere.
[2016-08-17 23:42:05] BitMEX_Arthur : Thedude: We don't cater to only one side of the market
[2016-08-17 23:42:16] BitMEX_Arthur : If the rates are to high to go long, then go short
[2016-08-17 23:42:23] BitMEX_Arthur : and if they are to low to go short, go long
[2016-08-17 23:42:53] BitMEX_Arthur : If you want 33x leverage on a altcoin that can move 1% in a 1 minute candle you need to accept the fact that it will be quite expensive to trend folow
[2016-08-17 23:42:55] BitMEX_Arthur : follow
[2016-08-17 23:43:22] Thedude : BitMEX_Arthur: Clearly you cater to the shorts they receive a free 0,5% a day
[2016-08-17 23:44:05] BitMEX_Arthur : But we don't set the rate, it is determined by where the swap actually trades in the market
[2016-08-17 23:44:08] omicron : BitMEX_Arthur: For alts, fixed seems to work better.
[2016-08-17 23:44:09] micmix : weekly future for ETC seem to work well enough
[2016-08-17 23:44:27] BitMEX_Arthur : micmix: We are discussing whether to move alts back to fixed expiries
[2016-08-17 23:44:57] Thedude : BitMEX_Arthur: Liquidity is not high enough to justify the same calculation used for XBT/USD hence why the rates become so ludricous.
[2016-08-17 23:44:59] omicron : BitMEX_Arthur: oh ok. this clears things up. I thought you guys set the rate and this caused me some confusion
[2016-08-17 23:45:21] BitMEX_Arthur : If it is easier to understand then so be it, we only really care about offering high leveraged products
[2016-08-17 23:45:26] micmix : Yes, I think it will make sense. swap is not a good option with current liquidity
[2016-08-17 23:45:38] BitMEX_Arthur : when we had only the weeklies many were complaining about wanting longer maturities so we tried out the swap
[2016-08-17 23:46:10] omicron : anything more than 1 month is very hard to price on alts.
[2016-08-17 23:46:31] Thedude : BitMEX_Arthur: Was anyone complaining about the "old" way the funding rates were calculated on the perpetual ETH/XBT swap?
[2016-08-17 23:46:45] BitMEX_Arthur : Thedude: Do you want one sided markets
[2016-08-17 23:46:45] micmix : weekly futures are easy enough to understand. just don't spread liquidity and offer 1 contract per alt. re-entering once a week shouldn't be such a big deal
[2016-08-17 23:47:07] BitMEX_Arthur : If the mm don't get compensated for taking the other side in trending markets you won't be able to trade at all
[2016-08-17 23:47:41] BitMEX_Arthur : It's not your right to get cheap financing on a 33x long or short position on an alt
[2016-08-17 23:47:54] Thedude : BitMEX_Arthur: They already got compensated though? previously shorts almost always received a net fee even in bear markets.
[2016-08-17 23:48:26] BitMEX_Arthur : Then I guess the sentiment was overly positive, things change
[2016-08-17 23:48:35] BitMEX_Arthur : We don't control how traders view an alt
[2016-08-17 23:48:49] BitMEX_Arthur : Thedude: Would you mind paying a 20% premium for a weekly future
[2016-08-17 23:49:14] BitMEX_Arthur : Meaning if say ETH spot was 0.02, and the future was 0.022
[2016-08-17 23:49:19] BitMEX_Arthur : make that 10%
[2016-08-17 23:49:53] micmix : I'm sure we will see up to 20% during strong trends
[2016-08-17 23:49:57] BitMEX_Arthur : Assuming you held for a week
[2016-08-17 23:50:22] BitMEX_Arthur : micmix: Agreed we just want people to trade, if that feels better to just trade at a high premium
[2016-08-17 23:50:30] BitMEX_Arthur : then maybe the swap isn't the right product for alts
[2016-08-17 23:51:08] micmix : at least people will see what they pay right away, I'm sure 75% of traders don't understand the current system
[2016-08-17 23:51:09] Thedude : BitMEX_Arthur: I liked paying the difference between BTC lending and ETH lending like how was done in the old system. If many were long price went up due to higher BTC lending rates if many were short price went down due to high ETH lending rates. It made sense and didnt cause unpredictable insane rates. I dont feel the market was overly positve at that time on bitmex comparing spot to index. Seemed to be similair to what they are now.
[2016-08-17 23:51:51] Thedude : micmix: Second that if people realize how much they're paying I think most longs would close. Its not worth being long for these prices unless market is trending up like crazy.
[2016-08-17 23:53:40] BitMEX_Greg : Thedude: The issue with those funding rates is that they do not represent the leverage offered here.
[2016-08-17 23:54:08] BitMEX_Greg : Thedude: Trading at 3x leverage should result in a lower funding rate, because of increased margin required to trade that position.
[2016-08-17 23:54:35] BitMEX_Greg : If the funding is cheap for a high leverage, then people are going to FOMO more on higher leveraged products
[2016-08-17 23:55:53] Thedude : BitMEX_Greg: But whats wrong with that? FOMO on bitmex has no inffluence on the actual market so no matter how much leverage is being used if they position is wrong the price will move against them regardless.
[2016-08-17 23:56:50] BitMEX_Greg : It does have an influence on the market.
[2016-08-17 23:57:16] BitMEX_Greg : There have been a number of finance articles in well established journals that have shown futures markets LEAD spot markets
[2016-08-17 23:57:19] lockhedge : if the mark price does not match the market price you get higher risk of DPE or liquidations at a price far away from spot set by market makers
[2016-08-17 23:57:25] BitMEX_Greg : The underlying reason they come to is because of cheap trading
[2016-08-18 00:01:06] Thedude : BitMEX_Greg: I understand but current funding rates make it seem like the market is overly positve even though market price on bitmex has been pretty close to index price. The problem is that the differences between index and market price for alts are much higher then for XBT/USD due to them being much smaller markets so using the same calculation results in the fees being way to high.
[2016-08-18 00:01:10] omicron : BitMEX_Greg: WTF are you talking about? In legacy markets futures may lead spot, but Bitmex leading spot is unproven
[2016-08-18 00:02:53] BitMEX_Arthur : Guys, you can't expect the same levels of funding for a 3x margin spot position and a 33x leveraged derivative
[2016-08-18 00:03:01] BitMEX_Greg : omicron: I am stating a possibility here, that possibility being that there is cheap trading available.
[2016-08-18 00:03:27] Thedude : BitMEX_Arthur: You pay the same rate even if you only use 5% funding.
[2016-08-18 00:03:43] Thedude : 5x*
[2016-08-18 00:04:17] BitMEX_Greg : Thedude: We keep going around in circles. I keep telling you that we are looking into it with alts. We understand that this product may not work for traders like yourself.
[2016-08-18 00:06:09] Thedude : BitMEX_Greg: Agreed, glad you guys are monitoring though. Would reccomend that traders receive an additional warning if the current funding rate for their position is more then say 0,2% a day so they know keeping it open is very expensive.
[2016-08-18 00:06:20] BitMEX_Greg : Thedude: One last thing, as mentioned earlier this provides an opportunity to make a killing in reversing the trade.
[2016-08-18 00:07:33] Thedude : BitMEX_Greg: I realize now, will consider current funding rates on alts in taking positions.
[2016-08-18 00:07:45] micmix : BitMEX_Arthur: you might need to push auto deleveraging live at the same time to deal with DPE on alt futures, it's going to be rough without it
[2016-08-18 00:07:47] BitMEX_Greg : Thedude: All I can say is to pay attention to the "Predicted Funding". A successful trader is one that not only makes successful trades, but also is on top of every cost to a trade.
[2016-08-18 00:08:18] BitMEX_Greg : micmix: We're looking into it
[2016-08-18 00:22:12] lockhedge : how does auto deleveraging work?
[2016-08-18 00:23:17] BitMEX_Arthur : lockhedge: We rank you based on leverage and pnl, highest leveraged traders get a higher score
[2016-08-18 00:23:40] BitMEX_Arthur : If say a long gets liquidated we look down the list of shorts ranked by leverage and pnl, then close your positions at the bankruptcy price of the liquidation order
[2016-08-18 00:24:11] BitMEX_Arthur : That's it in a nutshell, we will be releasing the guide soon followed by a few week grace period before switching anything, there will be an announcement
[2016-08-18 00:24:24] rapidtrades : so leverage is n1?
[2016-08-18 00:24:29] rapidtrades : criterion?
[2016-08-18 00:25:04] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes the more leverage you use, the more likely you are to be auto delev if a liquidation order cannot be filled in the market
[2016-08-18 00:25:42] rapidtrades : and that's my overall lev of in that particular contract
[2016-08-18 00:25:48] rapidtrades : or*
[2016-08-18 00:25:48] BitMEX_Arthur : This method is already live in our testnet, we have been testing it for a few weeks now
[2016-08-18 00:25:57] BitMEX_Arthur : effective leverage on the product level
[2016-08-18 00:26:25] BitMEX_Arthur : so there will be no more rebalance, no more withheld profit
[2016-08-18 00:30:41] BitMEX_Arthur : Our Chinese version is also in Testnet as well, it's not finished yet but you can have a sneak peak, lots going on this month
[2016-08-18 02:14:05] zanza : rapidtrades: any Yuan predictions ?
[2016-08-18 02:36:00] Ugly_Old_Goat : If you did not buy etc you will now need to chase and pay up
[2016-08-18 02:37:28] Ugly_Old_Goat : I can think of one great improvement
[2016-08-18 02:38:04] Ugly_Old_Goat : i like the weekly etc and any other market made on that basis but . . .
[2016-08-18 02:38:34] rapidtrades : a new MM on swap? seeing big walls
[2016-08-18 02:38:47] Ugly_Old_Goat : The starting date should be on Thursday at 5 am with exp following Friday
[2016-08-18 02:39:13] Ugly_Old_Goat : That should fix the exp problems like we had last Friday
[2016-08-18 02:39:36] rapidtrades : zanza: no position in yuan....
[2016-08-18 02:39:44] Ugly_Old_Goat : In other words the two markets overlap for 24 hours
[2016-08-18 02:47:34] rapidtrades : so in the past 24 hours we learned that bitfinex management trade so big on their own platform that they now hold 2 spots in the top 10
[2016-08-18 02:47:41] rapidtrades : that's just peachy
[2016-08-18 02:48:31] rapidtrades : 2 spots in top 10 token holders
[2016-08-18 02:49:15] rapidtrades : and of course that had nothing to do with why the current haircut model was chosen....like nothing at all
[2016-08-18 02:53:55] rapidtrades : btc-e still leading even with that outtage today https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#markets
[2016-08-18 02:55:28] rapidtrades : I'm guessing it's where Americans went to trade on margin
[2016-08-18 03:05:27] micmix : rapidtrades: BTC-E has zero fees until the end of August, it's one of the reasons for high volumes
[2016-08-18 03:19:28] zanza : Bitmex should do a 0 fee promotion also to pick up some Finex customers :) You could call it "0 fee" and make it `-25/25` so the maker still gets rebate
[2016-08-18 03:40:09] Rado : BitMEX_Arthur: are prices on the testnet real?
[2016-08-18 03:41:03] Rado : I mean can I test a bot there and then use similar parameters on the live account.
[2016-08-18 03:42:42] micmix : Rado: index prices are the same but mark price and premium/funding/impact mid price etc are different
[2016-08-18 03:43:21] Rado : do you know why?
[2016-08-18 03:43:23] micmix : because completely different order flow
[2016-08-18 03:44:14] Rado : can we simulate better order flow?
[2016-08-18 03:44:24] Rado : for example do you run your bot there?
[2016-08-18 03:44:38] micmix : you can if you have time and enough test bitcoins
[2016-08-18 03:45:11] Rado : cool
[2016-08-18 03:45:53] micmix : I run short tests there then switch to live. I wanted to simulate order flow on testnet but it's not worth the time. It's easier for me to test on live with like 0.1 BTC orders
[2016-08-18 03:46:13] Rado : right
[2016-08-18 05:35:19] zanza : my site is finally up https://www.bitfinexlawsuit.scam/
[2016-08-18 07:19:26] Rado : zanza: looks really good
[2016-08-18 07:20:17] rapidtrades : is that his actual site?
[2016-08-18 07:20:30] rapidtrades : i mean...is that site actually his?
[2016-08-18 07:23:20] Rado : rapidtrades: zanza is a girl
[2016-08-18 07:23:55] Rado : and she said "my" site
[2016-08-18 07:26:07] miramm1115 : "Honk Kong" is actually spelled Hong Kong @zanza
[2016-08-18 07:31:02] Rado : I like Honk Honk
[2016-08-18 07:48:26] rapidtrades : i think it's a joke site
[2016-08-18 07:50:27] rapidtrades : Rado: and girls can't make website
[2016-08-18 07:50:35] rapidtrades : s
[2016-08-18 09:03:17] Boontjie : BitMEX_Arthur: Wait so if you are in a massively good positive short and a long gets liquidated you get forced to take profit and close leverage?
[2016-08-18 09:26:27] rapidtrades : Boontjie: yes but they go for the most leveraged positions first then profit
[2016-08-18 09:27:11] rapidtrades : i think they said they will publish the equation soon
[2016-08-18 09:27:33] Boontjie : How is this good for you as a trader. You open a leveraged position, market goes up by 10%, you have $$$. You go to bed. You wake up and your position is half of what it was, market went up 30%
[2016-08-18 09:27:47] rapidtrades : yea it can get tricky
[2016-08-18 09:28:01] Boontjie : Other way. Market goes down, you get liquidated
[2016-08-18 09:28:11] Boontjie : It is heavily weighted against you
[2016-08-18 09:28:11] rapidtrades : they will email u but then u have to set up ur email to alert u etc
[2016-08-18 09:28:27] Boontjie : If you are sleeping, email will not help
[2016-08-18 09:29:09] rapidtrades : yeah maybe the platform should make a loud alarm
[2016-08-18 09:29:14] rapidtrades : is it possible
[2016-08-18 09:29:25] Boontjie : Why not just offer 5 times leverage max. Cause you will be insane to be up for close position
[2016-08-18 09:29:47] rapidtrades : i would prefer 5-10x leverage as well
[2016-08-18 09:30:47] rapidtrades : 5x is a bit low in this current environment but they could up it from 10 to 5 if we get into another bubble
[2016-08-18 09:35:45] Tetsuo : things are getting a bit complcated in here, i hope at least the team knows how everything gets calculated in here, i gave up some time ago
[2016-08-18 09:36:51] rapidtrades : u think this is complicated? we had a 24h quanto
[2016-08-18 09:37:26] rapidtrades : at 100x leverage
[2016-08-18 09:37:31] Tetsuo : i remember
[2016-08-18 09:37:41] Boontjie : yes, amazing
[2016-08-18 09:37:52] rapidtrades : fun times...those were the easiest money i made in crypto
[2016-08-18 09:41:13] rapidtrades : btw Bitfinex hired vitalik's firm to do their audit
[2016-08-18 09:41:20] rapidtrades : We are also in the process of engaging Ledger Labs to perform an audit of our complete balance sheet for both cryptocurrency and fiat assets and liabilities
[2016-08-18 09:42:29] rapidtrades : Ledger Labs everyone! not Deloitte or KPMG....Ledger f*cking Labs
[2016-08-18 09:42:31] Tetsuo : i know, hilarious. They could also take pictures of their naked asses and send them to their customers
[2016-08-18 09:43:10] rapidtrades : 90% of their actions have been wrong...this can't be incompetence, smth is up at that firm
[2016-08-18 09:44:18] jesperf : well, if you act randomly without thinking.. as incompetent people do
[2016-08-18 09:45:26] jesperf : if you flip a coin 10 times it's still possible to get the same result every time
[2016-08-18 09:45:28] Boontjie : They could be of the opinion an expert in cryptocurrency would be in a better position to provide an accurate audit
[2016-08-18 09:45:38] Boontjie : well 'expert'
[2016-08-18 09:46:49] rapidtrades : we already know how much BTC they hold....its on the blockchain
[2016-08-18 09:48:28] rapidtrades : how is LL gonna audit them when they don't have the expertise or the pedigree...they're not even licensed to do audits
[2016-08-18 09:49:05] Boontjie : Well that last part if true, means BFX is stupid
[2016-08-18 09:50:16] Tetsuo : no way
[2016-08-18 09:51:04] rapidtrades : http://ledgerlabs.com/team/
[2016-08-18 09:51:28] rapidtrades : i see no accountants in there
[2016-08-18 09:51:51] Tetsuo : wuestion is ; how much percentage is deliberate criminnal and how much is stupidity
[2016-08-18 09:52:01] rapidtrades : bunch of coders, developers and 'strategy guys'
[2016-08-18 09:52:50] rapidtrades : Tetsuo: at first i was going with n2 but as time goes on, im started to slowly think inside job
[2016-08-18 09:53:22] rapidtrades : may not be all of them but everything they do screams karpeles
[2016-08-18 09:53:38] miramm1115 : Boontjie: you can use lower leverage like below 10x and never worry about auto deleveraging. you cannot avoid DPE with the current system no matter what leverage you are using
[2016-08-18 09:53:55] rapidtrades : they have a little shill army on reddit now...all accounts 14 days old ...made after hack
[2016-08-18 09:54:36] Boontjie : miramm1115: You can lower the probability of deleveraging, but not completely discount it
[2016-08-18 09:55:17] Boontjie : Someone opens a 50x positions with a 100btc YOLO and see if the market has the liquidity to keep all positions open
[2016-08-18 09:55:38] rapidtrades : fair point
[2016-08-18 09:55:54] rapidtrades : i hate DPE tho so I would like to see how this system does
[2016-08-18 09:56:26] Boontjie : Sure DPE isnt great, but its what happens when you run a forward market trying to force it to spot
[2016-08-18 09:56:48] miramm1115 : well that someone opened position against other traders, and most of those will be highly leveraged and will be deleveraged before you
[2016-08-18 09:57:29] rapidtrades : i'd like to see the actual calculation...
[2016-08-18 09:57:30] Boontjie : miramm1115: no, 50 traders with 2x leverage vs 2 with 50x leverage
[2016-08-18 09:57:52] miramm1115 : never works like that in real life
[2016-08-18 09:57:53] rapidtrades : like is it 1. highly leveraged 2. if not enough of those go after highest profit
[2016-08-18 09:57:56] BitMEX_Arthur : I think you guys weren't here when we had low leverage and 0 trading volume
[2016-08-18 09:58:04] rapidtrades : or is it a mix of two
[2016-08-18 09:58:25] BitMEX_Arthur : I think the verdict is pretty clear the majority of traders want the high leverage, it is what produces the arbitrage opportunities that you like @rapidtrades
[2016-08-18 09:58:38] rapidtrades : prolly right
[2016-08-18 09:59:01] BitMEX_Arthur : So while you may be a responsible trader, you will have no trading setups if there are no reckless highly leveraged traders
[2016-08-18 09:59:07] rapidtrades : we had a lot more arbitrage under the 24h qunato tho
[2016-08-18 09:59:08] miramm1115 : BitMEX_Arthur: totally agree, we can't make any money without gamblers ;-)
[2016-08-18 09:59:20] Boontjie : BitMEX_Arthur: Yes sure I like the high leverage. Allows me to borrow to pick up premiums
[2016-08-18 09:59:44] Boontjie : I have been liquidated before though :)
[2016-08-18 10:01:32] Boontjie : BitMEX_Arthur: Just worried about the fairness. If you have a system to deleverage profitable trades I want to pick to deleverage my loss making ones while I sleep :)
[2016-08-18 10:02:30] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Arthur: is it gonna be a 1 (leverage) then 2 (profit) system? or a mix of the two criterion
[2016-08-18 10:02:44] Boontjie : Stop loss doesnt guarantee it gets executed at that price, if that is what I understand from closing the shorts
[2016-08-18 10:02:45] miramm1115 : Boontjie: you might even get a better price bc your position will be deleveraged at the top/bottom when most get rekt
[2016-08-18 10:02:48] BitMEX_Arthur : leverage then profit to come up with your rank
[2016-08-18 10:03:14] rapidtrades : so a mix then
[2016-08-18 10:03:30] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes
[2016-08-18 10:03:52] rapidtrades : that's not good...i would prefer a leverage first and move to profit only if there's no highly leveraged ppl
[2016-08-18 10:05:14] Boontjie : The more highly profitable the higher the rank?
[2016-08-18 10:06:01] rapidtrades : example 1: A uses 11:1 leverage but has profit of 1 BTC but B uses 10:1 and has a profit of 100 BTC...under ur system it would be possible for B to be closed before A?
[2016-08-18 10:06:43] BitMEX_Arthur : ```Ranking = Effective Leverage * PNL Percentage where Effective Leverage = abs(markValue) / (markValue - bankruptValue) PNL percentage = (markPrice - avgEntryPrice) / abs(avgEntryPrice) Mark Value = Position Value at Mark Price Bankrupt Value = Position Value at Bankruptcy Price Avg Entry Price = Average Price of Position Entry```
[2016-08-18 10:07:12] BitMEX_Arthur : the formal document will be released when we make the announcement but that is the likely calculation
[2016-08-18 10:10:42] rapidtrades : ok so teh PnL part will be relative not based on absolute BTC gain/loss
[2016-08-18 10:10:57] BitMEX_Arthur : correct
[2016-08-18 10:11:17] BitMEX_Arthur : We basically ran simulations using a few different ranking methods and this was the best one
[2016-08-18 10:11:42] rapidtrades : why not just use just leverage? what problems did u encounter with that
[2016-08-18 10:11:55] BitMEX_Arthur : traders could get closed at a loss
[2016-08-18 10:12:36] BitMEX_Arthur : this system ensured that we didn't close someone out where they would go into a bankrupt situation
[2016-08-18 10:14:58] rapidtrades : why would they go bankrupt? is there an added cost to having ur position closed in this way
[2016-08-18 10:17:08] Tetsuo : additional rekt fees?
[2016-08-18 10:18:01] BitMEX_Arthur : there are edge cases where closing the out the opposing side could lead to a bankrupt situation, it's very rare, we ran the simulation using all the BitMEX trading data during the 500->800 pump
[2016-08-18 10:32:56] rapidtrades : what was the most common leverage where ppl were closed? and what was the 'safe' leverage below which noone was closed
[2016-08-18 10:39:49] BitMEX_Arthur : Everyone has the same Maintenance margin so leverage really isn't relevant for this simulation
[2016-08-18 10:44:41] rapidtrades : i see... u didn't use our account info like leverage etc...guess that would be hard to do
[2016-08-18 10:44:42] Boontjie : I think it relates to closing a big account vs a lot of small accounts
[2016-08-18 10:45:07] rapidtrades : no the calc says the profit part will be relative
[2016-08-18 10:45:40] Boontjie : Ah so you are either deep in profit or shit deep in leverage
[2016-08-18 10:46:03] rapidtrades : :)
[2016-08-18 11:13:15] rapidtrades : man finally some funding for the shorts...it's been a brutal week
[2016-08-18 11:13:31] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Arthur: when will u implement the new system?
[2016-08-18 11:19:37] BitMEX_Arthur : No firm date we are hoping to make the announcement in a week or so then there will be a few weeks afterwards before it goes live
[2016-08-18 11:27:18] esuvari : what's going on with the mad btc buys?
[2016-08-18 11:34:47] bernx : BitMEX_Arthur: Did you have any plans for add new crypto pairs?
[2016-08-18 11:35:30] macios15 : no sell orders at finex
[2016-08-18 11:35:50] bernx : MAID, DASH(not sure, coz useless for me), maybe NXT, AMP?
[2016-08-18 12:16:52] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETC7D`: Sell 200 @ 0.003061
[2016-08-18 13:07:00] rapidtrades : macios15: on what?
[2016-08-18 13:44:59] BitMEX_Greg : bernx: No plans yet. If they have a solid trading volume track record and more traders demand it we may consider other alts
[2016-08-18 15:04:03] billyboy402 : when does the funding change to once a day
[2016-08-18 15:04:09] billyboy402 : Funding is paid and received every 8 hours. The next payout event is at 06:00 (20:00 UTC).
[2016-08-18 15:06:05] BitMEX_Sam : It doesn't change to once a day, it's always every 8 hours.
[2016-08-18 15:06:34] nip : billyboy402: less frequent funding would make the premiums get much larger
[2016-08-18 15:07:39] billyboy402 : i thought thye last email said it was chainging
[2016-08-18 15:14:31] billyboy402 : where do ui see that last interest paid of recived , this site is till soooo confusing
[2016-08-18 15:15:28] billyboy402 : in my account , why the hell do i have CashRebalance -0.1960 XBT when i have only made profitable trade since my last depoist
[2016-08-18 15:21:33] BitMEX_Greg : Is it most likely from funding
[2016-08-18 15:22:14] BitMEX_Greg : Take a look at your Trade History: https://www.bitmex.com/app/tradeHistory
[2016-08-18 15:22:36] nip : my guess is change in mark price
[2016-08-18 15:22:41] billyboy402 : well that just took me 6 min to try and find , i think the funding cost and earning should to place in balance where a normal person would first look
[2016-08-18 15:23:54] billyboy402 : the layout and trade history is soo confuing
[2016-08-18 15:24:02] billyboy402 : 2016-08-18 22:00:00 XBTUSD Rebalance Sell 20000 572.87 34.9120 XBT 0.0000% -.-- Limit 20000 0 572.87 Rebalance 000000 2016-08-18 22:00:00 XBTUSD Rebalance Buy 20000 572.87 -34.9120 XBT 0.0000% -.-- Limit 20000 0 572.87 Rebalance 000000
[2016-08-18 15:24:14] billyboy402 : why does uit put buy and then sell the same thing
[2016-08-18 15:27:26] billyboy402 : ok so the 8 hours of funding , ist that the avg time . or the final price ,. feel like at every 8 hours a while can manipulate the price so if they are huge long . like 1000 BTC , then spend 1 btc to buy the price up and get 0.200% on the total 1000 BTC
[2016-08-18 15:27:33] BitMEX_Greg : billyboy402: It is to do with the rebalance. Essentially it is closing your position and then reopening at the rebalance price
[2016-08-18 15:28:16] billyboy402 : BitMEX_Greg: why does the end user need to see it then . it just overcomplate the trade history
[2016-08-18 15:29:09] Rado : billyboy402: you need to see the profit/loss after the rebalance
[2016-08-18 15:29:20] BitMEX_Greg : It is done on an averaging basis
[2016-08-18 15:29:53] BitMEX_Greg : billyboy402: So you are unable to manipulate it buy going long 1000 BTC in the last minute, for example
[2016-08-18 15:30:26] BitMEX_Greg : billyboy402: We want to provide as much information to the user as possible, including their rebalancing positions.
[2016-08-18 15:30:50] billyboy402 : soooo , if the price has been under for the last 7 hours , then some whale pump the price up . does it pay if the price it up above index , for the last 7 hours ...
[2016-08-18 15:31:20] BitMEX_Greg : billyboy402: It's an average, so really depends what the average would be during the last hour
[2016-08-18 15:32:22] billyboy402 : so it work out the avg the index has been for 8 hours , and work out the avg bi8tmex price for the last 8 hours ?
[2016-08-18 15:33:52] BitMEX_Greg : billyboy402: Yes its an 8 Hour TWAP: https://www.bitmex.com/app/index/.XBTUSDPI8H
[2016-08-18 15:35:01] BitMEX_Greg : The concept can be a bit different if you are just used to trading Futures, but for some further information take a read of: https://www.bitmex.com/app/swapsGuide#funding
[2016-08-18 15:35:06] billyboy402 : like every thing else on ur site , it over complated with jargon , what is TWAP ? for the rest of the ppl like my self
[2016-08-18 15:35:42] BitMEX_Greg : https://www.google.com/#q=TWAP
[2016-08-18 15:35:57] BitMEX_Greg : `The Time-Weighted Average Price (TWAP) is defined as the average price of a security over the course of a specified period of time`
[2016-08-18 15:36:23] billyboy402 : oh great you send me a google link , that usefull as fuck , it shoudl be on ur website
[2016-08-18 15:36:37] 4lph4 : billyboy402: get lost mate
[2016-08-18 15:36:44] 4lph4 : billyboy402: do some research if you wanna trade crypto
[2016-08-18 15:36:55] 4lph4 : billyboy402: there is no point in being rude
[2016-08-18 15:38:21] billyboy402 : 4lph4: shhhh that calling the kettle black isnt it
[2016-08-18 15:38:40] BitMEX_Greg : billyboy402: It's a fairly common term in the trading world. I can point you to a good book that goes over basic introduction to derivatives if you like
[2016-08-18 15:39:02] billyboy402 : BitMEX_Greg: yea that information should be either hyper link or posted at the bottom
[2016-08-18 15:39:13] 4lph4 : billyboy402: I don't get what you are saying and I don't care anyway. people like you deserve to get 36% haircut so you'd better go on bitfinex and trade
[2016-08-18 15:40:14] BitMEX_Greg : billyboy402: http://polymer.bu.edu/hes/rp-hull12.pdf Hull's textbook is known as the bible in Finance. Every trader would have a copy on their desk
[2016-08-18 15:40:34] billyboy402 : 4lph4: please dont ever respond to me , it annoying that chrome give me a notication when a troll " mention you"
[2016-08-18 15:41:13] BitMEX_Greg : It can be a bit daunting at first, but if you are serious about trading I highly recommend it.
[2016-08-18 15:41:25] 4lph4 : billyboy402: you are so arrogant mate, you deserve the worst I cannot imagine there are people like you. totally uneducated on the matter and demanding
[2016-08-18 15:41:49] BitMEX_Greg : 4lph4: Let's keep it to a minimum here
[2016-08-18 15:42:31] billyboy402 : i have asked you nice , please stop harassing me . @4lph4
[2016-08-18 15:42:47] 4lph4 : billyboy402: lol what a looser
[2016-08-18 15:43:02] billyboy402 : BitMEX_Greg: thx for the link
[2016-08-18 15:46:32] BitMEX_Greg : No prob, I'll try to help out where possible but we not be able to respond as quick as you like for some questions you have. Try google it first, if you still don't understand some terminology give us a ping
[2016-08-18 15:47:06] daveberns1 : Anybody else on CF?
[2016-08-18 15:47:22] billyboy402 : BitMEX_Greg: any reason why the funding rate are not calculated more frequently like every hour
[2016-08-18 15:48:18] daveberns1 : somebody came in and bought up all the far dated futures
[2016-08-18 15:48:35] daveberns1 : massive spreads on dec and mar futures
[2016-08-18 15:48:40] billyboy402 : seam like every time I look "shorts will receive 0.1583%" ... then i check tomorrow and see that I have paid interest not
[2016-08-18 15:50:55] BitMEX_Greg : billyboy402: Take a look at: https://www.bitmex.com/app/fundingHistory
[2016-08-18 15:51:24] BitMEX_Greg : You can click on the XBTUSD symbol to isolate it, else you can filter by adding `{"symbol":"XBTUSD"}` in the search box
[2016-08-18 15:53:01] billyboy402 : yea i saw that ,. just feel like every time before the 8 hours it pop up for 5 min , and the funding rate not what iot been saying for the last 7 hours
[2016-08-18 15:53:31] BitMEX_Greg : The periods also tie in with rebalancing, and for the purposes of settling PnL and positions. More importantly it's also to account for any liquidation events that could lead to losses (need a long enough period to have liquidations taken care of).
[2016-08-18 15:53:46] BitMEX_Greg : The funding is always fixed
[2016-08-18 15:54:09] billyboy402 : would there be any benfits if it was done every hour
[2016-08-18 15:54:10] BitMEX_Greg : So right now, in 4 hours time shorts will get paid 0.1583%
[2016-08-18 15:54:40] billyboy402 : yea , but in 4 hours . it will prob be 0.015%
[2016-08-18 15:54:58] BitMEX_Greg : No, it is fixed.
[2016-08-18 15:55:13] BitMEX_Greg : It won't change at all when it comes to the 4 hour rebalance event
[2016-08-18 15:55:19] billyboy402 : like i came on 12 hours ago , and it said short would make XXXX ... then come online , then see i was charge
[2016-08-18 15:55:23] BitMEX_Greg : If you hover over it, it tells you the next predicted funding
[2016-08-18 15:56:15] billyboy402 : would be great if you could click a box , so u didnt have to tpe {"symbol":"XBTUSD"}
[2016-08-18 15:56:35] BitMEX_Greg : You can click on the Symbol
[2016-08-18 15:56:52] billyboy402 : ok yea that easyer
[2016-08-18 15:56:55] BitMEX_Greg : See where it says LSKXBT or FCTXBT etc
[2016-08-18 15:56:58] BitMEX_Greg : just click one of those
[2016-08-18 16:09:26] macios15 : nice pump
[2016-08-18 16:16:11] wotan : agree btc more and more looks kinda bullish to me
[2016-08-18 16:16:15] wotan : but lets see
[2016-08-18 16:16:35] wotan : could take some weeks or months even for a return to another level
[2016-08-18 16:24:04] 4lph4 : wotan: $5 "pump"
[2016-08-18 16:25:07] wotan : yes 4lph4 but at least its good if we find a bottom for btc right now 3800 is holding good
[2016-08-18 16:29:33] 4lph4 : wotan: there is nothing significant on the news that could explain an upwards price move.. what I see is people still talking about bitfinex and lawsuits.. dunno...
[2016-08-18 16:32:26] wotan : 4lph4 i see it completely other
[2016-08-18 16:33:31] wotan : btc is still the crypto standart many projects out there, world ecoonomic is in a terrible shape, kim dotcom willl release his bitcache in early 2017 and many more
[2016-08-18 16:34:05] 4lph4 : wotan: well don't get me wrong, I was focusing on this week or the next, not generally btc's potential.. :)
[2016-08-18 16:35:02] wotan : sure i agree short term i dont see a strong uptrend but midterm like weeks and months i would not be suprised for it
[2016-08-18 16:35:10] premjeraz : withdrawals processes just one per 24hours ? next 13 UTC so ir next 21hours ? really ?
[2016-08-18 16:35:39] wotan : yes premjeraz withdrawals are processed from humans here and its good for safety
[2016-08-18 16:35:48] BitMEX_Wally : Yes
[2016-08-18 16:36:19] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.bitmex.com/app/security
[2016-08-18 16:36:58] 4lph4 : wotan: I wouldn't be surprised either, I would actually be surprised if the price does not look sexy by the end of the year
[2016-08-18 16:37:17] premjeraz : its not when its proccesed one per 24hours..sometimes i want move btc fast..
[2016-08-18 16:38:08] wotan : 4lph4 agree
[2016-08-18 16:38:25] premjeraz : at least they could do every 6 or 8hours... now is funds like frozen
[2016-08-18 16:39:32] premjeraz : i liked this platform, but this withdrawal policy is not very good for me
[2016-08-18 17:00:45] jesperf : premjeraz: wrong use case. this is not a wallet service
[2016-08-18 17:01:40] jesperf : the withdrawal policy is good for everyone. I'd like for them to continue not losing a single bitcoin of customer deposits
[2016-08-18 17:19:07] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETC7D`: Sell 167 @ 0.002955
[2016-08-18 17:23:07] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETC7D`: Sell 3050 @ 0.002916
[2016-08-18 18:27:32] zanza : what are you in a rush for premjeraz ?
[2016-08-18 18:34:11] Bittip : Hi
[2016-08-18 18:34:33] Bittip : how to trade here
[2016-08-18 18:35:00] Bittip : any one to guide me
[2016-08-18 18:49:54] BitMEX_Greg : Bittip: Hi, we have several guides here helping users learn how to trade.
[2016-08-18 18:50:09] BitMEX_Greg : I suggest to start here: https://www.bitmex.com/app/tradingOverview
[2016-08-18 18:55:45] premjeraz : zanza: yes, kind of.
[2016-08-18 19:57:47] justinlooking : did someone say rETC
[2016-08-18 20:16:25] jackbr : testnet is down?
[2016-08-18 20:23:20] rapidtrades : haxmb: update on the lawyer situation?
[2016-08-18 20:28:09] BitMEX_Sam : jackbr: Yes, will be back up shortly
[2016-08-18 20:36:57] jackbr : thx
[2016-08-18 20:42:18] Tetsuo : https://bitcoin.org/en/alert/2016-08-17-binary-safety
[2016-08-18 20:42:38] Tetsuo : "Bitcoin.org has reason to suspect that the binaries for the upcoming Bitcoin Core release will likely be targeted by state sponsored attackers. As a website, Bitcoin.org does not have the necessary technical resources to guarantee that we can defend ourselves from attackers of this calibre."
[2016-08-18 20:43:23] Tetsuo : In such a situation, not being careful before you download binaries could cause you to lose all your coins. This malicious software might also cause your computer to participate in attacks against the Bitcoin network. We believe Chinese services such as pools and exchanges are most at risk here due to the origin of the attackers.
[2016-08-18 20:45:17] rapidtrades : pffft
[2016-08-18 20:45:36] rapidtrades : that's NOT GOOD
[2016-08-18 20:46:19] rapidtrades : how about this tho https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4ycryp/eli49_why_is_one_single_person_able_to_change_the/
[2016-08-18 20:46:25] rapidtrades : looks like website got hacked
[2016-08-18 20:49:42] rapidtrades : yeah that safety alert is not official from the developers
[2016-08-18 20:51:44] Tetsuo : i´m confused
[2016-08-18 20:53:05] rapidtrades : yeah that's not a 'real' security update
[2016-08-18 20:53:11] rapidtrades : tkae a look at this tho https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/4yc6xq/bitfinex_what_do_the_etherium_holders_know_that/
[2016-08-18 20:53:31] rapidtrades : bitfinex held 1 mil ETH....that's an extra 10mil in assets over bitcoin
[2016-08-18 20:54:09] Tetsuo : have read that already.... i´m not shocked about it at this point; lol
[2016-08-18 20:54:42] rapidtrades : so they barely had any usd on the stie?
[2016-08-18 20:55:35] rapidtrades : cos they lost 65-70 mil in btc...they had extra 70 mil in BTC left....plus 10 ETH
[2016-08-18 20:56:04] rapidtrades : math doesn't add up....
[2016-08-18 20:56:13] rapidtrades : that leaves barely any USD
[2016-08-18 20:56:19] rapidtrades : like 5-10 mil
[2016-08-18 20:56:22] Tetsuo : yep
[2016-08-18 20:56:27] rapidtrades : and that's not even counting LTC
[2016-08-18 20:56:36] rapidtrades : how much $$$ did they keep? this is crazy
[2016-08-18 20:57:10] rapidtrades : smth is srsly wrong at that exchange
[2016-08-18 20:58:04] rapidtrades : they kept much more then 7 mil USD
[2016-08-18 21:06:02] rapidtrades : 119,756 BTC stolen, valued at 604
[2016-08-18 21:09:53] rapidtrades : to arrive at 36% haircut, the amount of USD in there should've been <20 mil and that seems really low
[2016-08-18 21:10:21] rapidtrades : shouldn't u expect a value close to 50/50? value of bitcoins was over 140 mil pre-hack
[2016-08-18 21:12:59] rapidtrades : help me math nerds....72.2 mil in hacked coins....around 78mil in BTC lett plus 1mil in ETH and they say they kept 7mil USD
[2016-08-18 21:13:28] rapidtrades : how much USD is it to arrive at 36% haircut
[2016-08-18 21:13:46] rapidtrades : srry 10mil in ETH not 1
[2016-08-18 21:15:54] BitMEX_Sam : 72M / 36.067% is roughly 200.2M
[2016-08-18 21:16:04] BitMEX_Sam : So expect they should have at least that much in assets
[2016-08-18 21:18:13] habibi : rapidtrades: nice:) 22:56 - rapidtrades: math doesn't add up.... 20 minutes later: 23:12 - rapidtrades: help me math nerds....72.2 mil in hacked coins....around 78mil in BTC lett plus 1mil in ETH and they say they kept 7mil USD
[2016-08-18 21:19:05] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Sam: ah cool now it makes sense tnx
[2016-08-18 21:20:12] rapidtrades : that leaves 47 mil usd if we include the 7 they took to fight off our lawsuits
[2016-08-18 21:21:09] rapidtrades : isn't that still on the low side? total value of BTC was close to 150 mil yet not even 50 mil USD?
[2016-08-18 21:22:04] BitMEX_Sam : Yes, it does seem low, but it stands to reason there'd be more BTC, it's much easier to move it
[2016-08-18 21:22:17] BitMEX_Sam : And they had built up a large userbase of unverifieds who were BTC in/out
[2016-08-18 21:23:34] rapidtrades : right but shouldn't the value of the two balance each other out? for every long there's a short etc
[2016-08-18 21:24:03] BitMEX_Sam : No, not necessarily
[2016-08-18 21:24:12] BitMEX_Sam : A lot of it could have just been held
[2016-08-18 21:24:17] BitMEX_Sam : Or exchanged for other cryptos
[2016-08-18 21:24:58] rapidtrades : ok
[2016-08-18 21:25:36] rapidtrades : do we know how much did LTC contribute? prolly 1mil max?
[2016-08-18 21:26:19] rapidtrades : all others are prolly <5mil
[2016-08-18 21:39:05] rapidtrades : anyone back to trading over there?
[2016-08-18 21:39:50] zanza : I have a big wire coming through it never showed up
[2016-08-18 21:39:57] zanza : no reply to my tickets
[2016-08-18 21:43:02] rapidtrades : yeah, right
[2016-08-18 21:43:17] zanza : almost $50k its been 2 weeks now
[2016-08-18 21:43:21] zanza : im getting worried