This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2015-09-03 09:37:23] BitMEX_Arthur : priceaction: We are in Shanghai at the moment
[2015-09-03 09:37:28] BitMEX_Arthur : In Jingan
[2015-09-03 09:39:13] priceaction : none of the chinese i know deals with bitcoin in any way, some did 2 years ago
[2015-09-03 09:39:26] priceaction : the regulation scared them
[2015-09-03 09:40:19] priceaction : shanghai is a bit different though
[2015-09-03 09:42:03] BitMEX_Arthur : The volatility went down, they don't care about what the government says
[2015-09-03 09:42:20] BitMEX_Arthur : And the stock market became the hottest thing that's what has taken the attention of all the traders
[2015-09-03 09:46:45] priceaction : now some people put money back into the stock market hoping for a big buck
[2015-09-03 09:51:59] priceaction : it's ridiculous - but prob safe enough bet after the gov pumped in bilions or trilions to the rescue
[2015-09-03 10:08:00] priceaction : so you guys start promoting on wechat and weibo?
[2015-09-03 10:08:12] BitMEX_Arthur : priceaction: We will yes
[2015-09-03 10:08:26] BitMEX_Arthur : And release a Chinese language front end, and mobil app
[2015-09-03 10:09:37] priceaction : wow
[2015-09-03 10:11:15] priceaction : all in huh
[2015-09-03 10:12:02] BitMEX_Arthur : We need liquidity for you guys, China is where it all is
[2015-09-03 10:12:39] BitMEX_Arthur : Starting in a few days we have English and Chinese daily TA discussions. They will appear on the blog
[2015-09-03 10:13:48] priceaction : makes sense
[2015-09-03 10:14:06] priceaction : but gov can restrict access any given time
[2015-09-03 10:31:36] SnackyCoins : mobile app, sweet! though i must say your mobile UI is fantastic enough i'm not missing an app
[2015-09-03 10:36:22] DunningKruger : Liquidity would be...wonderful.
[2015-09-03 10:41:08] DunningKruger : BitMEX_Arthur: loving your blog articles by the way. Really appreciate them.
[2015-09-03 11:23:58] Matthew.v : I was wondering if you were going to be targeting the Chinese market.
[2015-09-03 11:27:30] Matthew.v : naw I am cool fuck that shit
[2015-09-03 11:49:25] Matthew.v : get out of there wit the mal ware
[2015-09-03 12:07:08] BitMEX_Sam : Please be careful of anything signalcoin - or anything eli posts. I've banned him once before
[2015-09-03 12:09:49] Matthew.v : bring that hammer down
[2015-09-03 12:11:03] BitMEX_Sam : Yep, he's toast.
[2015-09-03 12:18:15] DunningKruger : Good. Such a lame attempt anyway.
[2015-09-03 12:18:59] DunningKruger : He'd prob have better luck on BTC-e...
[2015-09-03 12:19:08] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah. It makes sense that people would target malware to exchange users - changes are high some users might have a wallet.dat sitting around
[2015-09-03 12:19:12] BitMEX_Sam : chances*
[2015-09-03 12:31:11] Matthew.v : So, Bitmex is going to begin to target the Chinese user base?
[2015-09-03 12:37:51] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes we are
[2015-09-03 12:45:58] vbmithr : {"table":"orderBook25","action":"delete","data":[{"symbol":"XLT7D","level":3}]}
[2015-09-03 12:46:15] vbmithr : which side of this orderbook the level 3 is deleted ?
[2015-09-03 12:47:24] Bitman : testing testing
[2015-09-03 12:51:21] BitMEX_Wally : vbmithr: Both sides
[2015-09-03 12:51:39] vbmithr : they can be out of sync no ?
[2015-09-03 12:51:45] vbmithr : more sellers than buyers, that kind of stuff
[2015-09-03 12:52:09] BitMEX_Wally : vbmithr: The row is only deleted when there are no bids and no asks at that level
[2015-09-03 12:52:36] BitMEX_Wally : vbmithr: The table has bids and asks in the same row
[2015-09-03 12:54:49] vbmithr : so suppose a table with 3 rows, all filled
[2015-09-03 12:55:00] vbmithr : if one order get deleted from one side, what happens ?
[2015-09-03 12:55:15] vbmithr : ha, ok.
[2015-09-03 12:55:16] vbmithr : an update
[2015-09-03 12:55:26] BitMEX_Wally : You will get an update for that row with null price and null quantity
[2015-09-03 12:55:34] vbmithr : Ok got it
[2015-09-03 12:55:36] vbmithr : thanks.x
[2015-09-03 12:55:49] BitMEX_Wally : Yeah I regret doing the order book this way, should have just pushed the L3 updates and let people build it themselves
[2015-09-03 12:55:59] BitMEX_Wally : Made it too easy for people who just want to maintain an image
[2015-09-03 13:11:26] vbmithr : Ok I see
[2015-09-03 13:11:44] vbmithr : So the semantic of field absent and field = null is totally different
[2015-09-03 13:11:55] vbmithr : null = delete, absent = not modified
[2015-09-03 13:13:15] BitMEX_Wally : Yes
[2015-09-03 13:13:23] vbmithr : yeah, not clear
[2015-09-03 13:13:47] BitMEX_Wally : Internally we use IEEE floats with NaN for values which are 'null'
[2015-09-03 13:14:06] vbmithr : ok
[2015-09-03 13:14:16] vbmithr : you should write this somewhere
[2015-09-03 13:14:26] vbmithr : how one should interpret the orderBook ws messages
[2015-09-03 13:14:31] vbmithr : it's not completely obvious
[2015-09-03 13:26:04] BitMEX_Wally : vbmithr: Good idea. These insert/update/delete messages should be interpreted the same for all tables
[2015-09-03 13:28:33] vbmithr : yeah
[2015-09-03 13:33:14] vbmithr : To attach a semantic "delete" to a null field is totally wrong
[2015-09-03 13:33:31] vbmithr : the programmer is not supposed to guess that a null field means a deleted row in a DB
[2015-09-03 13:33:52] vbmithr : Or else you don't put delete messages but update with both null
[2015-09-03 13:34:22] vbmithr : I did not see insert messages though
[2015-09-03 13:34:25] vbmithr : (not yet)
[2015-09-03 13:34:29] vbmithr : for the orderbook
[2015-09-03 13:34:56] BitMEX_Sam : It doesn't mean a deleted row, it means a column set to null
[2015-09-03 13:35:02] BitMEX_Sam : `delete` means a deleted row
[2015-09-03 13:35:33] vbmithr : Ah I saw an insert
[2015-09-03 13:35:34] BitMEX_Sam : `update` messages are built to be as lean as possible, so if a field hasn't changed, it's not sent
[2015-09-03 13:35:50] vbmithr : ok
[2015-09-03 13:36:02] vbmithr : (sorry, I meant a deleted cell)
[2015-09-03 13:36:15] BitMEX_Sam : The actual updating from WS is pretty simple
[2015-09-03 13:36:28] BitMEX_Sam : See https://github.com/BitMEX/market-maker/blob/master/market_maker/ws/ws_thread.py#L172
[2015-09-03 13:36:36] vbmithr : I think I understand it now
[2015-09-03 13:37:19] vbmithr : Ok, much useful, thanks!
[2015-09-03 13:38:00] BitMEX_Sam : Maybe it makes sense to put that into a tiny module. But it's really quite simple. Insert and partial is very easy, when deleting/updating you simply use the `keys` definition to find the right item
[2015-09-03 14:43:26] priceaction : omg eth is takin a big hit
[2015-09-03 15:46:43] jillhomebrew619 : hi there
[2015-09-03 15:46:56] jillhomebrew619 : first time user of Bitmex. forced here because okcoin blocked deposits
[2015-09-03 15:47:53] BitMEX_Wally : jillhomebrew619: Welcome to BitMEX
[2015-09-03 15:48:10] jillhomebrew619 : let me ask some dumb questions
[2015-09-03 15:48:14] BitMEX_Wally : Sure
[2015-09-03 15:48:26] jillhomebrew619 : first off, for "Speculation XBT" are these futures contracts?
[2015-09-03 15:48:31] BitMEX_Wally : Yes
[2015-09-03 15:48:40] jillhomebrew619 : does 25 Mar 2016 have a huge premium?
[2015-09-03 15:49:04] jillhomebrew619 : $285?? like wtf haha even OKcoin's quarterly contracts don't have THAT large of a premium
[2015-09-03 15:49:22] BitMEX_Wally : People love to go long
[2015-09-03 15:49:34] BitMEX_Wally : If you think the premium is high then you can short the future and buy spot :)
[2015-09-03 15:53:57] jillhomebrew619 : wow ok. awesome thnx
[2015-09-03 15:54:22] jillhomebrew619 : i find the UI a bit flooded on first glance, but i think i'll have to just get used to it
[2015-09-03 15:55:34] BitMEX_Sam : jillhomebrew619: We try to put everything in front of you so you can monitor the market all at once
[2015-09-03 16:09:00] j8 : jillhomebrew619: keep in mind the `XBT` series are quanto futures, not directly comparable to OKC futures. there is a good reason they are priced higher.
[2015-09-03 16:09:19] j8 : https://blog.bitmex.com/xbt-vs-xbu-chain/
[2015-09-03 17:41:23] ssa3512 : BitMEX_Sam: what happened to XBTU15_Z15
[2015-09-03 18:06:40] vbmithr : Yeah
[2015-09-03 18:06:47] vbmithr : I have got BitMEX data in Sierra Chart
[2015-09-03 18:06:49] vbmithr : totally amazing
[2015-09-03 18:11:10] j8 : nicely done
[2015-09-03 18:11:36] vbmithr : Next week it will be public
[2015-09-03 18:11:39] vbmithr : BitMEX entry in Sierra Chart
[2015-09-03 18:11:41] vbmithr : for free
[2015-09-03 18:11:59] vbmithr : And in one more week, trading support
[2015-09-03 18:12:02] vbmithr : if all goes well
[2015-09-03 18:25:53] ssa3512 : anyone else notice the 44 contract orders on XBTU?
[2015-09-03 18:26:03] ssa3512 : I'm thinking it must be a bot
[2015-09-03 18:26:13] j8 : for sure
[2015-09-03 18:26:23] ssa3512 : but why is the question
[2015-09-03 18:26:31] j8 : why not?
[2015-09-03 18:26:42] ssa3512 : 44 contracts doesn't make you a whole lot
[2015-09-03 18:28:09] j8 : maybe still getting comfortable with their pricing etc.
[2015-09-03 18:28:38] ssa3512 : I wouldn't trust my money to a bot
[2015-09-03 18:28:44] ssa3512 : too easily manipulated
[2015-09-03 18:28:53] j8 : thats why you do it with 44 contracts to start
[2015-09-03 18:29:19] j8 : probably 90% of the orders here are placed by bots
[2015-09-03 18:29:19] ssa3512 : well for me I just mean at all, ever
[2015-09-03 18:29:31] ssa3512 : really? 90%?
[2015-09-03 18:29:37] j8 : i dunno just guessing
[2015-09-03 18:29:49] ssa3512 : they must be losing money then because I keep making money
[2015-09-03 18:30:26] j8 : when you see a bunch of orders for the same amount on both buy and sell side, there's a good chance its someone using a simple market making bot
[2015-09-03 18:31:11] j8 : i.e. all the 23's and 24's on `XBUU15` and `XBUZ15`
[2015-09-03 18:31:47] j8 : they may also be making money, with arbitrage elsewhere
[2015-09-03 18:32:47] j8 : if their pricing is robust and their spreads are big enough it's pretty hard to manipulate
[2015-09-03 18:32:47] ssa3512 : ha switched to XBUU15 and the amounts in the quantity box stayed
[2015-09-03 18:32:48] ssa3512 : Margin (Buy): 401.3862 XBT
[2015-09-03 18:32:54] ssa3512 : no thanks
[2015-09-03 22:58:10] TInvest : uh that might hurt some
[2015-09-03 23:17:20] johnny : I have closed all my positions but my balance is still more than my availabke funds, pls explain?
[2015-09-03 23:30:09] krtek.net : withheld profit?
[2015-09-03 23:31:00] johnny : why is there a need to withald profit given that this exchange promises to not socialise losses?
[2015-09-03 23:32:42] BitMEX_Arthur : Whicj contract did you trade?
[2015-09-03 23:37:51] johnny : XLT7D
[2015-09-03 23:38:11] johnny : So my profit is withheld until settlemtn of the contract?
[2015-09-03 23:39:33] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes which is Friday 12 GMT
[2015-09-03 23:40:04] johnny : just curuous here, if you will never socialise losses why is this necessary?
[2015-09-03 23:40:32] krtek.net : only XBU series doesn't socialise imho.
[2015-09-03 23:40:50] krtek.net : all others are DPEs
[2015-09-03 23:41:04] johnny : oh lol
[2015-09-04 03:34:00] VanCleef : hello
[2015-09-04 03:34:32] VanCleef : had a question about this article - https://blog.bitmex.com/cash-and-carry-arbitrage-with-bitmex-futures/
[2015-09-04 03:35:36] VanCleef : what if future price rises to 300, woul you be losing out?
[2015-09-04 03:39:07] j8 : for the `XBU` example you have no exposure, so your profit is the same regardless of the price
[2015-09-04 03:41:18] j8 : so perhaps you would have made more if you just bought BTC with your $10,000
[2015-09-04 03:42:01] VanCleef : right, but its good to have that hedge just in case
[2015-09-04 03:42:16] j8 : yeah, the point is you can capture the premium without making a bet on the price direction
[2015-09-04 03:43:56] VanCleef : awesome thanks j8
[2015-09-04 03:44:36] j8 : np
[2015-09-04 07:33:57] DunningKruger : Damn that lack of liquidity on XLT7D
[2015-09-04 07:55:27] vbmithr : Sam: here ?
[2015-09-04 07:55:40] BitMEX_Arthur : vbmithr: No not awake yet
[2015-09-04 07:57:40] vbmithr : :) ok
[2015-09-04 07:57:44] vbmithr : He's in america right ?
[2015-09-04 07:57:57] vbmithr : I guess.
[2015-09-04 07:58:13] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes
[2015-09-04 10:33:13] SnackyCoins : we settle in 90 minutes right?
[2015-09-04 11:33:02] TInvest : I need to move an order - will not aloow me to cancel
[2015-09-04 11:33:09] TInvest : any reason?'
[2015-09-04 11:34:37] TInvest : enever mind - refreshed browser
[2015-09-04 11:55:50] TInvest : ding ding - five mintes yes?
[2015-09-04 12:01:30] DunningKruger : kerching
[2015-09-04 12:03:08] TInvest : munnies is nice
[2015-09-04 12:03:16] TInvest : even fractions of oneyes
[2015-09-04 12:04:09] DunningKruger : Very nicely
[2015-09-04 12:50:53] SnackyCoins : it appears the Affiliate Total Turnover is increasing normally again, but none of the previous turnover was replaced
[2015-09-04 13:01:57] chromaticcr : thats a lot of volume at xbt7d
[2015-09-04 13:02:37] chromaticcr : ohhh... settlement...... overlooked...
[2015-09-04 13:20:53] vbmithr : Sam: I got BitMEX data working @ Sierra Chart
[2015-09-04 13:21:02] vbmithr : It needs more testing
[2015-09-04 13:21:13] vbmithr : If anybody wants to test it.
[2015-09-04 13:28:31] vbmithr : Would be great actually.
[2015-09-04 13:33:41] vbmithr : https://dtcprotocol.org/SupportBoard.php?ThreadID=16004
[2015-09-04 15:39:59] vbmithr : Sam: bug in the testnet api explorer
[2015-09-04 15:40:17] vbmithr : in order
[2015-09-04 15:40:18] vbmithr : POST
[2015-09-04 15:40:21] vbmithr : Order type. Available: 'limit', 'stopLimit'
[2015-09-04 15:40:41] vbmithr : The first letter should be capitalized.
[2015-09-04 16:04:41] cryptojoe : chromaticcr: doesn't that instrument automatically settle on fridays?
[2015-09-04 16:08:34] cryptojoe : stamp is finally trading about the 20 and 200MA on all charts periods 5m through 2h
[2015-09-04 16:17:29] cryptojoe : finex volume never recovered after it's debacle.
[2015-09-04 16:21:11] torokun : i'm used to okcoin
[2015-09-04 16:21:25] torokun : i'm used to ok coin
[2015-09-04 16:22:26] torokun : how do you sell part of a long position?
[2015-09-04 16:22:47] torokun : e.g., if you have 1000 contracts long and want to reduce it to 500
[2015-09-04 16:23:46] torokun : can you hold long and short positions simultaneously?
[2015-09-04 16:24:35] Juba : you simply make a sell order
[2015-09-04 16:24:51] Juba : it will take the amount you type in from your long
[2015-09-04 16:25:09] SnackyCoins : torokun you can't be long & short on the same contract, but you can long one contract and short another
[2015-09-04 16:25:14] Juba : test with 1 contract
[2015-09-04 16:25:24] torokun : so it's quite different to ok coin...
[2015-09-04 16:25:32] Juba : ye
[2015-09-04 16:26:02] SnackyCoins : inverse contracts (XBU) = okcoin contracts, but the leverage is lower on those
[2015-09-04 16:26:36] SnackyCoins : the controls are different here too, but P&L will behave like you're used to on the inverse contracts
[2015-09-04 16:27:26] torokun : i also think they should consolidate - too many offerings at the moment to get critical liquidity
[2015-09-04 16:28:39] torokun : watch this shit. everyone thinks we're consolidating and then some whales will tank the price to fuck everyone over.
[2015-09-04 16:28:43] SnackyCoins : the various settlement periods are vital to some trading strategies 8)
[2015-09-04 16:29:14] torokun : ^gently caress^screw
[2015-09-04 16:29:25] Juba : how would you explain the leverage on XBU/XBT
[2015-09-04 16:29:59] torokun : why is the leverage different?
[2015-09-04 16:30:04] Juba : ye
[2015-09-04 16:30:29] SnackyCoins : XBT is considered a speculative contract and offers leverage up to 25x, with "socialied losses" (but the number is shown ahead of time and not after settlement)
[2015-09-04 16:30:39] SnackyCoins : this is for people that want to play high leverage
[2015-09-04 16:30:46] SnackyCoins : but is bad for hedging your stack
[2015-09-04 16:31:00] SnackyCoins : so XBU offers lower leverage with no socialized losses
[2015-09-04 16:31:15] SnackyCoins : this way you can perfectly hedge
[2015-09-04 16:31:22] SnackyCoins : which is something futures are used for
[2015-09-04 16:31:29] Juba : ok nice snacky :)
[2015-09-04 16:31:30] SnackyCoins : you can't hedge properly on OKCoin
[2015-09-04 16:31:41] SnackyCoins : lol wordfilter
[2015-09-04 16:31:46] SnackyCoins : O K C oin
[2015-09-04 16:31:48] torokun : why? not enough range before liquidation?
[2015-09-04 16:32:04] torokun : you could do 10x
[2015-09-04 16:32:09] Juba : haha o k coin comes up as woodchipper?
[2015-09-04 16:32:09] SnackyCoins : you cant hedge properly in any socialized losses system because you dont know what the losses will be
[2015-09-04 16:32:16] SnackyCoins : ahead of time
[2015-09-04 16:32:17] torokun : well, that's true.
[2015-09-04 16:32:37] torokun : but there must be something similar here as well
[2015-09-04 16:32:49] SnackyCoins : if you wanted to buy btc and sell an equal dollar position on futures to hedge, you can't do it- you'll lose money if there's soc. losses
[2015-09-04 16:32:57] SnackyCoins : but you can here, on XBU
[2015-09-04 16:33:05] SnackyCoins : but as a result, leverage cant be as high
[2015-09-04 16:33:11] Juba : but I still dont get how the PL is calculated? its not real time on XBT My brain is used to okcoin
[2015-09-04 16:33:18] torokun : how does bitumen handle socialized losses?
[2015-09-04 16:33:32] SnackyCoins : bitumen?
[2015-09-04 16:33:40] torokun : bitmex
[2015-09-04 16:33:46] torokun : got corrected... :P
[2015-09-04 16:33:55] SnackyCoins : https://blog.bitmex.com/xbt-vs-xbu-chain/ this might be helpful
[2015-09-04 16:34:21] Juba : so xbu is like o k coin ?
[2015-09-04 16:34:43] SnackyCoins : bitmex socialized losses work like OKCoi n's, but here the loss % is displayed on the contract info when it happens- you don't have to wait until friday to see post-settlement
[2015-09-04 16:35:04] torokun : so you can withdraw at any time?
[2015-09-04 16:35:49] SnackyCoins : profits? some are locked away until settlement i believe. "advanced margin details" has a line called "unrealized profit"
[2015-09-04 16:36:30] torokun : hard to wrap my head around these xbt futures
[2015-09-04 16:36:36] torokun : after being used to okc
[2015-09-04 16:36:55] SnackyCoins : yeah it took me a while. Like i said, OKC uses inverse (XBU, but their leverage is higher)
[2015-09-04 16:37:05] vbmithr : OKCoin
[2015-09-04 16:37:06] vbmithr : :)
[2015-09-04 16:37:18] vbmithr : You can come to IRC if you don't want trollbox filtering thing
[2015-09-04 16:37:19] torokun : it also seems to replace profanity...
[2015-09-04 16:37:25] vbmithr : haha
[2015-09-04 16:37:28] torokun : shit
[2015-09-04 16:37:31] torokun : fuck
[2015-09-04 16:37:37] vbmithr : I can read it
[2015-09-04 16:37:38] SnackyCoins : Damnit Sam went all 4chan on us ;)
[2015-09-04 16:37:38] torokun : cunt
[2015-09-04 16:37:50] torokun : f u c k --> gently caress...
[2015-09-04 16:45:49] torokun : where is the settlement index/price?
[2015-09-04 16:50:19] torokun : cryptowat.ch only shows monthly xbt for bitmex
[2015-09-04 16:54:37] torokun : all settlements just use bitstamp price?
[2015-09-04 17:11:03] cryptojoe : torokun: if you click on 'contract specs' in the side bar, you can see which index is used for a given contract. i believe all the btc contracts use tradeblock (after switching over from bitfinex).
[2015-09-04 17:25:48] cryptojoe : BitMEX_Arthur: Are you guys hong kong based? I thought not, but the New Brave Coin article today says you are. http://bravenewcoin.com/news/despite-early-disappointments-vogogo-embraces-cryptocurrency-businesses-and-finds-success/
[2015-09-04 17:43:02] krtek.net : The company is registered on Seychelles. Servers are located in the west europe :) I see no HK link :)
[2015-09-04 17:44:07] krtek.net : Boys seems to be online mostly when there is a day in the US, but that's just a feeling.
[2015-09-04 17:54:49] cryptojoe : I heard Sam on a panel at the chicago inside btc conference. He sound Merican to me.
[2015-09-04 18:32:15] torokun : how does this leverage work? do i have to calculate how many contracts I can buy myself or does it display that somewhere?
[2015-09-04 18:34:47] torokun : and are there no market orders?
[2015-09-04 18:35:21] j8 : torokun: if you put in a quantity it will show Margin (Buy) and Margin (Sell) which is the minimum margin required
[2015-09-04 18:35:24] cryptojoe : torokun: idk. i never used the full 25x lev
[2015-09-04 18:36:01] torokun : so it just automatically uses leverage based on your positions.
[2015-09-04 18:36:12] torokun : instead of leveraging every position.
[2015-09-04 18:36:29] torokun : kind of weird to me...
[2015-09-04 18:36:36] j8 : once you have an order placed, you can click Isolate Margin which separates it
[2015-09-04 18:36:43] j8 : and uses max leverage
[2015-09-04 18:37:21] j8 : market orders aren't really available except for the Close Position button
[2015-09-04 18:37:30] torokun : dm
[2015-09-04 18:37:33] torokun : hmmm
[2015-09-04 18:37:43] j8 : just put a limit order deep into the book.
[2015-09-04 18:38:12] j8 : there is a little white bar under the button that estimates how much will fill immediately
[2015-09-04 18:39:39] torokun : when is unrealized PNL updated on positions?
[2015-09-04 18:40:02] Blargwaffle : 2h40m ago weekly.
[2015-09-04 18:40:21] torokun : no, i mean the displayed unrealized PNL
[2015-09-04 18:40:28] j8 : whenever the mark price changes
[2015-09-04 18:41:05] j8 : every 1 minute it seems.
[2015-09-04 19:16:12] BitMEX_Sam : Hey all, sorry the team has been quiet today, I'm usually around during the day US time but was traveling
[2015-09-04 19:17:00] BitMEX_Sam : torokun: Unrealised pnl is updated live as it happens. It's based on the mark price.
[2015-09-04 19:17:24] miratrader : BitMEX_Sam: Hi Sam, could you show dates in addition to times on the Recent Trades list?
[2015-09-04 19:17:29] BitMEX_Sam : No market orders is intentional, we consider them dangerous and only should be used in exceptional circumstances
[2015-09-04 19:17:45] BitMEX_Sam : miratrader: Try the fullscreen button at the top right of the recent trades list
[2015-09-04 19:18:18] BitMEX_Sam : The date is usually hidden just because it overflows on smaller screens
[2015-09-04 19:18:27] miratrader : BitMEX_Sam: oh cool, didn't notice the dates there
[2015-09-04 19:19:13] BitMEX_Sam : cryptojoe: krtek.net was mostly right. We are registered in the Seychelles, servers are in Europe. The HK link is because some partners live there. I'm usually in the US.
[2015-09-04 19:19:56] BitMEX_Sam : torokun: Re: withdrawals, you can withdraw realised profit at any time. XBU profit is realised as soon as you exit your position. All other contracts (which are subject to DPE/socialized loss) do not realize profit until the weekly rebalance which is at 12 UTC Friday.
[2015-09-04 19:20:19] BitMEX_Sam : vbmithr: Thanks for the doc note, will update.
[2015-09-04 19:22:07] BitMEX_Sam : Also, nice work re: DTC. Will try it out.
[2015-09-04 20:29:51] cowtung : somebody buy my 10 measly contracts pls
[2015-09-04 20:37:11] cowtung : thank you
[2015-09-04 20:37:15] j8 : your welcome
[2015-09-04 20:39:30] vbmithr : Sam: thanks
[2015-09-04 20:40:08] vbmithr : Yeah, have a look at the DTC daemon. You can report bugs on the DTC forum thread I mentionned
[2015-09-04 20:40:33] vbmithr : Next week I'll implement the trading functionality.
[2015-09-04 21:17:25] krtek.net : You should either release the code to public or insist the BitMEX implements some kind of a privilege separation for API (if the requests are to be router through your server)
[2015-09-04 21:17:58] krtek.net : You surely don't want to be blamed for stolen coins, do you? :)
[2015-09-04 21:18:30] krtek.net : It's fine on testnet, but no-go on the real network.
[2015-09-04 21:25:59] vbmithr : I can just trade with the api keys
[2015-09-04 21:26:08] vbmithr : not withdraw
[2015-09-04 21:26:19] vbmithr : the wallet is at bitmex
[2015-09-04 21:27:06] vbmithr : releasing the code wouldn't change a thing :)
[2015-09-04 21:33:06] alan_fuji : site won’t load, is it just me?
[2015-09-04 21:39:18] krtek.net : vmmithr:the api key you it for trading is capable of doing withdrawal
[2015-09-04 21:41:03] cowtung : site dead for me too
[2015-09-04 21:41:31] cryptosys : ok here
[2015-09-04 21:45:16] alan_fuji : seems to be IP related
[2015-09-04 21:56:28] krtek.net : The US & A is messing with the national firewall hard lately...
[2015-09-04 22:03:40] vbmithr : krtek: then indeed bitmex should implement a privilege separation for the API
[2015-09-04 22:03:46] vbmithr : as it is the case on most exchanges :)
[2015-09-04 22:33:03] j8 : BitMEX_Sam: i have a few orders in my order history that say 'Canceled via API', but that can't be right
[2015-09-04 22:41:40] j8 : disabled my api key a while ago just in case but they're still showing up
[2015-09-05 00:28:57] krtek.net : Sam: https://github.com/BitMEX/market-maker/pull/1
[2015-09-05 01:09:17] BitMEX_Sam : vbmithr: API Key constraints are on my shortlist, the basic parts of it are in place but it needs more work
[2015-09-05 01:09:31] BitMEX_Sam : I agree that would be very useful. Once API Key controls make it to the frontend, constraints will be part of it
[2015-09-05 01:10:01] BitMEX_Sam : j8: `'Canceled via API'` is the standard message used when no message is sent. The frontend sends its own message.
[2015-09-05 01:12:03] BitMEX_Sam : Note however that while an API Key is capable of withdrawal, it still requires an email confirmation
[2015-09-05 01:12:13] krtek.net : ok
[2015-09-05 01:12:14] BitMEX_Sam : Once we work constraints into the system that will no longer be true.
[2015-09-05 01:12:26] BitMEX_Sam : Thanks for the PR btw krtek.net
[2015-09-05 01:13:36] BitMEX_Sam : By default, once the system is done, API keys will have a default set of permissions that are restricted. You will need to specifically give them withdrawal access and there will still be an email notification, but not a required action.
[2015-09-05 01:13:42] krtek.net : first line, oh yeees :)
[2015-09-05 01:14:41] miratrader : BitMEX_Sam: Please consider using a trusted address (or a list of addresses) for API withdrawals without email confirmation. We usually like to automate withdrawals to keep min trading capital on the exchange
[2015-09-05 01:15:50] krtek.net : if you mean IP addresses, this will be possible with the permissions implemented
[2015-09-05 01:16:01] krtek.net : you just create another key just for withdrawal
[2015-09-05 01:16:19] krtek.net : keys can be restricted to ip(s) already
[2015-09-05 01:16:37] krtek.net : oh
[2015-09-05 01:16:40] krtek.net : sorr
[2015-09-05 01:16:42] krtek.net : sorry
[2015-09-05 01:16:44] miratrader : no, I mean trusted bitcoin addresses that don't require manual withdrawal confirmation
[2015-09-05 01:17:06] krtek.net : I've spoken before I finished readying )
[2015-09-05 01:17:48] miratrader : 2FA confirmation to add a trusted bitcoin address, then withdraw to this address using API without manual confirmaiton
[2015-09-05 01:19:11] BitMEX_Sam : miratrader: That's a good idea and something that could be worked into the constraints system. So e.g. withdrawals can be automated, but only to this array of addresses.
[2015-09-05 01:19:36] BitMEX_Sam : In general any API key update will require 2FA, we won't allow updating API keys with other API keys
[2015-09-05 01:20:34] BitMEX_Sam : I'll be in and out tonight but if you all have any other ideas please feel free to leave them here. So far you all have had some great suggestions.
[2015-09-05 01:21:29] krtek.net : consider dual 2FA.... one master for changing everthing even keys and such and secondary only usable for website login
[2015-09-05 01:21:53] BitMEX_Sam : That's interesting.
[2015-09-05 01:21:56] krtek.net : MIM with SSL os a bitch
[2015-09-05 01:22:31] krtek.net : is
[2015-09-05 01:22:39] BitMEX_Sam : I've been wanting to add yubikey, pgp challenge/response, and bitcoin address challenge/response too. Someday soon I hope.
[2015-09-05 01:23:02] BitMEX_Sam : That could be an interesting constraint. Not sure if it's necessary. But you could require a signed message to add a no-confirmation withdrawal address.
[2015-09-05 01:23:05] krtek.net : neat...
[2015-09-05 01:23:38] krtek.net : you see where I'm pointing, logging into a website is completelly dirffernt clearence level than manipulating the keys
[2015-09-05 01:23:47] krtek.net : these should be difreret
[2015-09-05 01:23:53] BitMEX_Sam : But I'm not sure if that signed message actually accomplished anything. It proves that you own the address, but it doesn't prove that you own the account
[2015-09-05 01:23:55] BitMEX_Sam : True
[2015-09-05 01:24:13] BitMEX_Sam : At the very least modifying any API keys will require another 2FA auth, much like withdrawal
[2015-09-05 01:24:29] BitMEX_Sam : I know that's not the case now but it will be.
[2015-09-05 01:24:52] BitMEX_Sam : Anyway I have to run. Thanks for the great ideas
[2015-09-05 01:25:07] krtek.net : see ya
[2015-09-05 01:33:08] j8 : BitMEX_Sam: i think the X button in the gui for cancel all buys / cancel all sells causes the 'Canceled by API' status
[2015-09-05 06:42:38] vbmithr : Well for me, I just _need_ privilege separation in order for my service to be usable (as krtek said). But since it's going to be live soon…
[2015-09-05 06:48:02] krtek.net : withdrawals still need e-mail confirmation, so I think you can go live, but you definitely need to warn your users about this issue.
[2015-09-05 07:26:18] vbmithr : :) ok!
[2015-09-05 07:50:50] jleon : for XBU, how do i short for example 330, and set stop loss 336?
[2015-09-05 07:51:11] jleon : i mean short 230, then stop loss 236
[2015-09-05 07:51:59] jleon : do i sell/short 230 limit, then go to stop limit buy/long 236 ?
[2015-09-05 07:52:23] BitMEX_Arthur : After you short / sell XBU contracts
[2015-09-05 07:53:17] BitMEX_Arthur : then create a Stop Limit Buy, with a stop price of 236 and a limit price slightly higher so that it gets filled
[2015-09-05 07:54:44] jleon : ok, i shall try it. Thanks Arthur
[2015-09-05 07:56:20] BitMEX_Arthur : jleon: To get more liquidity I suggest trading the XBT style futures
[2015-09-05 07:57:01] jleon : im abit confuse, do they work the same?
[2015-09-05 07:57:26] jleon : for XBU, one contract = 100USD worth of bitcoin right?
[2015-09-05 07:57:31] BitMEX_Arthur : correct
[2015-09-05 07:57:37] BitMEX_Arthur : That is better for hedging
[2015-09-05 07:57:43] BitMEX_Arthur : If you are speculating use the XBT series
[2015-09-05 07:57:46] jleon : so to hedge for example 1 bitcoin, i need to buy 2.3 contract, (2 rounded)
[2015-09-05 07:57:52] BitMEX_Arthur : Correct
[2015-09-05 07:58:24] jleon : oh ok, i just want to protect my bitcoin value at usd230 :)
[2015-09-05 07:58:25] BitMEX_Arthur : If you are long physical BTC, you need to sell XBU contracts
[2015-09-05 07:58:28] BitMEX_Arthur : ok
[2015-09-05 07:58:36] BitMEX_Arthur : yes XBU series is perfect for you
[2015-09-05 07:59:08] jleon : for XBT, i actually see that I can short, and set stop limit too
[2015-09-05 07:59:14] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes you can
[2015-09-05 07:59:26] jleon : it would be able to use as hedge as well?
[2015-09-05 08:00:01] BitMEX_Arthur : It is not a perfect hedge due to the payoff structure. I suggest using XBU
[2015-09-05 08:00:52] BitMEX_Arthur : `XBUU15`
[2015-09-05 08:00:57] jleon : ok, i shall need to read more about XBT oayoff structure
[2015-09-05 08:01:20] BitMEX_Arthur : https://blog.bitmex.com/xbt-vs-xbu-chain/
[2015-09-05 08:01:22] BitMEX_Arthur : Read this
[2015-09-05 08:01:38] jleon : thanks for the link, appreciate that
[2015-09-05 10:16:29] krtek.net : Just to be precise, you can place your stop/loss order before you placing your opening order and I consider it safer.
[2015-09-05 10:17:12] krtek.net : if the market sudenly moves after your open is filled and before the stop/loss is places, you could go bankcrupt.
[2015-09-05 10:18:20] krtek.net : and this move needn't to be sudden, if you just forgot to watch your open order to get filled ect. or even forget to place stop/loss after it is filled.
[2015-09-05 10:21:26] krtek.net : Request for order flag: "chained order" is placed in the book at the same time as the next order is placed the book.
[2015-09-05 10:22:23] krtek.net : grrr... no
[2015-09-05 10:33:00] krtek.net : another order state: prepared three new flags: - "chaining" flag: the order starts as prepared and is places in the book when the equivalent opposite "chained" order is placed (even parts) - "chained" flag starts as prepared and is placed in the book as at the same time the "chaining" order gets filled (even parts) - multiple chained orders are possible, and are always chained to the closest previous chaining order, they all of them are placed in the book at the same time. - if any of the chained order gets filled (even parts), all other chained orders are canceled.
[2015-09-05 10:33:42] krtek.net : this way you can implement stop/loss, take/profit and oco at the same time
[2015-09-05 12:21:51] joequant : I'm in the process of putting together a trading system that will let you do stuff like that client side.
[2015-09-05 12:21:59] joequant : see algobroker in pypi
[2015-09-05 12:22:58] joequant : for anything that involves complex order transactions, i'd rather roll my own orders since I can do backtesting.
[2015-09-05 12:24:37] joequant : I'm finding that I'm in situations where (if event X happens then wait for order Y). Also, I'm finding that I want to trigger orders based on outside events.
[2015-09-05 12:25:14] joequant : i.e. just now the chinese exchanges moved, and I'd like to put in hedging orders in bitmex
[2015-09-05 13:26:22] krtek.net : client side trigger is too slow for HFT
[2015-09-05 14:19:53] joequant : yup, but I've found that with bitcoin trading you can get by with two second latencies
[2015-09-05 14:20:44] joequant : At least in my case, I've found that operational risk is a bigger problem than speed (i.e. having a strategy backfire)
[2015-09-05 14:32:04] DunningKruger : If the Chinese exchanges moved, it could be anything from a whale to a butterfly...
[2015-09-05 14:36:42] gustavo7 : 1500 cny rejected?
[2015-09-05 15:50:45] DunningKruger : For now, yeah.
[2015-09-05 15:56:34] joequant : The weird thing is that you have a situation in which all the futures are below spot. Shanghai A50 is 10% below spot, and so are the Chinese bitcoin futures.
[2015-09-05 15:56:45] joequant : Actually it's 2%
[2015-09-05 15:56:50] joequant : But it's still weird.
[2015-09-05 16:38:15] j8 : quarterlies on okc just went to a premium, moments after you spoke, we'll see if it lasts
[2015-09-05 16:42:38] krtek.net : aaand we are back in contango.
[2015-09-05 16:50:03] krtek.net : holy moly :D
[2015-09-05 16:51:30] krtek.net : that was the most crazy trasfer to the negative basis I've seen...
[2015-09-05 16:51:56] j8 : yeah things are heating up...
[2015-09-05 16:54:39] chromaticcr : @j8 my take on the okc premium is that it will go back to a reasonable rate after this week's settlement, new quarter contract is coming up....
[2015-09-05 16:55:29] krtek.net : the is the settlement anyway?
[2015-09-05 16:55:31] krtek.net : when
[2015-09-05 16:55:52] chromaticcr : okc fut is a bit too irrational to trade on, and the irrationality can't be fixed by the arb-er, arbing could burn in big move
[2015-09-05 16:56:01] chromaticcr : Friday 1600 GMT+8
[2015-09-05 16:57:22] krtek.net : on okc?
[2015-09-05 16:57:42] chromaticcr : yup
[2015-09-05 16:57:47] krtek.net : hmm
[2015-09-05 16:59:11] krtek.net : the whole okc exchange behaves "unusual"... futures prices driving the spot? that just means there is something wrong with the liquidity on the spot market no?
[2015-09-05 16:59:18] chromaticcr : the quarter will shift to biweek, therefore a new contract is introduced to fill the quarter. This is how it works
[2015-09-05 16:59:37] chromaticcr : Well Star Xu is behind the numbers
[2015-09-05 16:59:43] chromaticcr : what do you expect
[2015-09-05 16:59:59] j8 : why shouldn't futures drive spot.
[2015-09-05 17:00:25] j8 : if that's where the biggest bets are being made
[2015-09-05 17:01:10] chromaticcr : It do drive spot. Either big bets, big cascading orders or low volume with a big price change (which followed by cascading orders...)
[2015-09-05 17:01:25] chromaticcr : Easy to manipulate
[2015-09-05 17:01:33] krtek.net : no matter what the bets are, the price should always be driven by the real economy, if it's not, it is not a market, it's a gamble
[2015-09-05 17:02:42] chromaticcr : "OKCasino"... we all have heard of that nickname
[2015-09-05 17:04:03] j8 : sure, take the wick to 240.96 on quarterlies for example
[2015-09-05 17:04:59] krtek.net : spike on spot was whoe 2 minutes later.
[2015-09-05 17:14:03] j8 : i'd say its part of the economy. spot + margin can do the same thing, re:bitfinex
[2015-09-05 17:17:18] j8 : just happens on a longer timeframe / bigger move
[2015-09-05 17:46:14] joequant : the problem with okcoin quarterly contracts is that they have clawbacks.
[2015-09-05 17:46:27] joequant : So you have to factor in counterparty risk.
[2015-09-05 17:46:37] joequant : okcoin
[2015-09-05 18:05:07] j8 : yeah, i guess all our markets suffer from that in one form or another. if the exchange takes the risk, then you take the risk of the exchange defaulting.
[2015-09-05 18:25:01] krtek.net : finally?
[2015-09-05 18:25:26] krtek.net : ah, false alarm
[2015-09-05 19:36:32] vbmithr : hi
[2015-09-05 19:36:33] vbmithr : http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#markets
[2015-09-05 19:36:50] vbmithr : Anybody knows why coinmarket caps lists chinese exchange differently ?
[2015-09-05 19:37:27] j8 : vbmithr: can't really compare volume with zero fee markets
[2015-09-05 19:59:37] vbmithr : ah
[2015-09-05 19:59:41] vbmithr : transaction cost = 0 really ?
[2015-09-05 19:59:46] vbmithr : how do they make money ?
[2015-09-05 20:00:57] vbmithr : what's the point in having a zero fee market btw ?
[2015-09-05 20:01:02] vbmithr : (olts of questions…)
[2015-09-05 20:08:17] j8 : good question, a lot of people are suspicious about that.
[2015-09-05 20:09:03] j8 : there are fees on fiat deposits / withdrawals
[2015-09-05 20:09:32] j8 : okc has fees on futures
[2015-09-05 20:09:54] j8 : they charge for colocation service also.
[2015-09-05 20:11:13] j8 : it seems the chinese business model is to take market share at any cost
[2015-09-05 20:17:02] j8 : a lot of people figure they must be trading against you. "if they're not selling a product, then you are the product"
[2015-09-05 21:01:43] vbmithr : interesting
[2015-09-05 21:03:03] vbmithr : I have no idea
[2015-09-05 21:03:20] vbmithr : the other question I had, totally unrelated, for people who know whaleclub
[2015-09-05 21:03:34] vbmithr : in the signal tab, how people broadcast signals ? is it done automatically ?
[2015-09-05 22:05:10] SnackyCoins : i think so vb, once you're enrolled it pulls from your tradingview (not 100% sure i dont use it myself)
[2015-09-05 23:53:56] joequant : oh that's easy
[2015-09-05 23:54:13] joequant : the chinese exchanges make money from margin loans.
[2015-09-05 23:54:34] joequant : I also suspect that they get interest from fiat holdings.
[2015-09-05 23:57:06] joequant : Also you need to go through a broker in order to move fiat onto the exchange, and it's likely that the exchange gets a cut of that.
[2015-09-05 23:57:27] joequant : The Chinese exchanges do have pretty high transaction fees on USD trades.
[2015-09-06 02:23:29] krtek.net : `OKC:BTCUSD3M` in contago again. For how long this time?
[2015-09-06 02:25:29] jleon : after i short XBU, in stop limit, i set buy stop, and the order pop up in stops tab below but not shown in XBU orderbook. is that normal?
[2015-09-06 02:26:25] krtek.net : yes, otherwise it would get filled rightaway, won't it?
[2015-09-06 02:34:11] krtek.net : blast-off
[2015-09-06 02:38:17] jleon : so it will only put in order book when last order is hitting my stop price?
[2015-09-06 02:38:53] jleon : ok, got it :) thanks
[2015-09-06 02:44:29] BitMEX_Arthur : Are we going to break out above $240 here?
[2015-09-06 02:49:29] zanza : are there 1 confirmation deposits now?
[2015-09-06 02:49:39] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes it has always been that way
[2015-09-06 02:49:48] zanza : oh, thought it was 3
[2015-09-06 02:49:50] zanza : oops
[2015-09-06 02:56:05] j8 : i'm thinking it's a bit soon to break $240
[2015-09-06 02:56:21] BitMEX_Arthur : Yeah we might enter a $235-$240 range for a few days
[2015-09-06 03:07:39] j8 : but what do i know
[2015-09-06 03:09:19] j8 : its fomo o'clock
[2015-09-06 03:20:45] BitMEX_Arthur : See that 248 wick on finex
[2015-09-06 03:20:54] BitMEX_Arthur : SHORT SQUEEEEEZZEEE
[2015-09-06 03:47:54] krtek.net : we are still in backwardation after this?
[2015-09-06 03:48:11] BitMEX_Arthur : On what future?
[2015-09-06 03:48:29] krtek.net : all okc :)
[2015-09-06 03:48:49] BitMEX_Arthur : Sounds like an arb to me :)
[2015-09-06 03:48:50] krtek.net : also XBT7D
[2015-09-06 03:49:04] krtek.net : not by much
[2015-09-06 03:56:43] j8 : been seeing 2wk < 1 wk < 3 wk a lot over there
[2015-09-06 03:57:16] j8 : which is a little mysterious to me
[2015-09-06 03:57:47] j8 : quarterly being 3wks now
[2015-09-06 04:01:29] krtek.net : /me nods
[2015-09-06 04:02:53] BitMEX_Arthur : probably liquididty premium
[2015-09-06 04:04:32] j8 : that doesn't make sense to me - they're all under spot and 2wk has the least liquidity.
[2015-09-06 04:05:04] j8 : so it would seem the liquidity to short is in demand
[2015-09-06 04:05:12] BitMEX_Arthur : so in a fomo rally most people trade the 1wk
[2015-09-06 04:05:25] BitMEX_Arthur : and 3wk is higher than 1wk as you get more time value
[2015-09-06 04:22:19] j8 : yeah i'm convinced, was a little backward in my head. actually i can convince myself either way now that i think about it
[2015-09-06 04:26:02] VanCleef : one hell of a short squeeze
[2015-09-06 05:01:03] priceaction : 243/244 looks like a good point to sell, don't you think?
[2015-09-06 05:06:40] j8 : i'd rather sell here with a stop around 244/245/246
[2015-09-06 05:07:32] priceaction : makes sense, thx
[2015-09-06 05:07:45] priceaction : so what's up with ltc - doom was a sure thing and now another pump?
[2015-09-06 05:31:58] joequant : Something weird happening in china. all futures below spot.
[2015-09-06 05:32:09] joequant : shanghai a50 is 10% below spot
[2015-09-06 05:32:42] priceaction : some ppl seem to know something :)
[2015-09-06 05:33:13] joequant : everyone knows something
[2015-09-06 05:33:31] joequant : I suspect it has something to do with the government freezing large stock sales
[2015-09-06 05:33:37] joequant : and people trying to get around the rule.
[2015-09-06 05:34:13] joequant : the hard part is making money from it.
[2015-09-06 05:38:34] joequant : could be currency views, i.e. people pricing in a 2 percent drop in the RMB.