This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2015-08-31 16:29:20] j8 : ok, cool.
[2015-08-31 17:03:26] notyourmother : just moved here from OKCoin.
[2015-08-31 17:13:44] BitMEX_Sam : notyourmother: Nice to see you here
[2015-08-31 17:19:58] rodrigobwn : Hi Sam
[2015-08-31 17:20:45] rodrigobwn : I am checking the System before move some Assets from other exchange
[2015-08-31 17:21:33] rodrigobwn : the futures are the XBT7D, this contract is the sme as weeklies?
[2015-08-31 17:22:09] rodrigobwn : the index price is the Mark Price?
[2015-08-31 17:22:44] rodrigobwn : can you provide a HangOut to explain how the features works for us
[2015-08-31 17:22:46] rodrigobwn : ?
[2015-08-31 17:23:38] rodrigobwn : I believe a lot of guys will watch that, we need a better place
[2015-08-31 17:27:37] BitMEX_Sam : rodrigobwn: Yeah, we have a number of tutorials and a video that should help
[2015-08-31 17:27:54] BitMEX_Sam : See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEMjYgPjQX0
[2015-08-31 17:28:02] BitMEX_Sam : All of the relevant information has tooltips that should help as well.
[2015-08-31 17:28:23] BitMEX_Sam : Every contract has an expiration date. If you're coming from OKC you probably want to use the XBT series which has 25x
[2015-08-31 17:28:36] rodrigobwn : ok
[2015-08-31 17:29:01] rodrigobwn : I will check it and call you with doubs
[2015-08-31 17:52:36] jillhomebrew619 : where is my ref link
[2015-08-31 18:10:28] STRML_phone : Go to the Account section on the sidebar, affiliate program information is there
[2015-08-31 19:06:26] WRA|GoudaCoin : you guys going to fuck usd peeps too like okcoin?
[2015-08-31 19:07:02] BitMEX_Sam : WRA|GoudaCoin: Not planning on it.
[2015-08-31 19:07:24] WRA|GoudaCoin : can i tweet that? my help bring vol over :D
[2015-08-31 19:07:27] WRA|GoudaCoin : i move my btc out
[2015-08-31 19:07:37] BitMEX_Sam : Tweet whatever you like!
[2015-08-31 19:07:55] BitMEX_Sam : I'm not saying it'll never happen - we can't know where regulation is headed.
[2015-08-31 19:08:01] BitMEX_Sam : But I can tell you for sure that we will give notice.
[2015-08-31 19:12:10] WRA|GoudaCoin : https://twitter.com/gouda_coin/status/638428937777840128
[2015-08-31 19:12:12] WRA|GoudaCoin : retweet
[2015-08-31 19:12:13] WRA|GoudaCoin : thanks
[2015-08-31 19:23:50] muirtastic : Yes I value my financial privacy so do not use any sites that require all my personal info.
[2015-08-31 19:24:50] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, that's 100% understandable.
[2015-08-31 19:47:26] gustavo7 : oh god the english in that customer support
[2015-08-31 19:52:56] WRA|GoudaCoin : and its a copy paste template
[2015-08-31 19:53:01] WRA|GoudaCoin : everyone gets that with the same mistakes :D
[2015-08-31 20:04:36] gustavo7 : m(
[2015-08-31 20:06:33] gustavo7 : moving my coins 796 -> bitmex
[2015-08-31 20:15:08] gustavo7 : wow bitgo lets you send with the amound received at just 1/6 confirmations
[2015-08-31 20:17:53] BitMEX_Sam : That seems optimistic
[2015-08-31 20:18:08] BitMEX_Sam : Depends a lot on how they control outgoing Bitcoin
[2015-08-31 20:25:18] gustavo7 : i guess they use something like live.blockcypher.com
[2015-08-31 20:26:01] BitMEX_Sam : Yes, there are ways to improve confidence by measuring block propagation
[2015-08-31 20:26:09] gustavo7 : it displays a confidence on unconfirmed tx, which usually shoots to 99% easily
[2015-08-31 20:27:07] BitMEX_Sam : That's a great site, clearly superior to bc.info
[2015-08-31 20:27:32] gustavo7 : oh there are many great now
[2015-08-31 20:28:04] gustavo7 : bitgo switched from blockr.io to blocktrail
[2015-08-31 20:28:39] gustavo7 : this exchange uses tradeblock right?
[2015-08-31 20:29:14] BitMEX_Sam : Yep
[2015-08-31 20:29:58] BitMEX_Sam : The confidence paper from blockcypher is very interesting. Appears they can do many deposits in about 10 seconds with very high confidence
[2015-08-31 20:31:11] BitMEX_Sam : Seems like a necessary step for any POS system
[2015-08-31 20:33:23] gustavo7 : so at least almost instant transactions are working
[2015-08-31 20:39:29] BitMEX_Sam : Within a confidence interval, yeah
[2015-08-31 20:39:52] BitMEX_Sam : So as a vendor you just calculate how much you're willing to lose. Of course, that's just like anything else and ~99.8% within 10s is quite good.
[2015-08-31 20:54:14] cengel : number of times ive heard anyone complain about double spend: 0
[2015-08-31 21:33:50] zanza : credit card processors can do it
[2015-08-31 22:59:09] dandoney : I'd like a little advice as a newbie. I'm long on BTC and want to set a short term 2 week hedge position to protect my investment. What is the best strategy.
[2015-08-31 22:59:52] BitMEX_Sam : dandoney: If you're looking to hedge the USD value of your Bitcoin, you can sell XBU futures to do so.
[2015-08-31 23:00:01] BitMEX_Sam : Each XBU contract is worth $100 of Bitcoin at expiry, no matter the Bitcoin price.
[2015-08-31 23:01:32] dandoney : where can I read about the contract? any recommended reading?
[2015-08-31 23:01:46] BitMEX_Sam : dandoney: Sure. Definitely read the FAQ to get started: https://www.bitmex.com/app/faq
[2015-08-31 23:02:15] BitMEX_Sam : The specification of the contract you'll want to trade is likely useful: https://www.bitmex.com/app/contract/XBUU15
[2015-08-31 23:02:35] BitMEX_Sam : We also have a basic guide to hedging: https://www.bitmex.com/app/lesson4#hedging
[2015-08-31 23:04:24] dandoney : very helpful! thanks Sam
[2015-08-31 23:13:57] WRA|GoudaCoin : where you long from
[2015-08-31 23:14:09] WRA|GoudaCoin : i see doom coming on btc
[2015-09-01 01:10:35] zanza : fees tomorrow!
[2015-09-01 01:52:48] zanza : I see higher volume lately, did anyone else notice that ?
[2015-09-01 02:57:33] mitzip : you're welcome
[2015-09-01 03:43:52] zanza : whale spotted
[2015-09-01 03:45:18] mitzip : I'm a big fish in a little pond... lol I continually ask all the sizes of fish, whales included to join me and make me a small fish again
[2015-09-01 03:45:50] mitzip : like gandi or someone said... "be the liquidity you want to see in the world"
[2015-09-01 04:19:25] zanza : yup it was ghandi
[2015-09-01 06:31:00] chromaticcr : smaill fish swims by...
[2015-09-01 06:51:42] laisee : mitzip: "Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself"
[2015-09-01 07:27:26] zanza : this site interface/layout here is great
[2015-09-01 07:32:07] zanza : oil spiking to near 50's again
[2015-09-01 09:26:46] vbmithr : hey
[2015-09-01 10:33:58] chromaticcr : zanza: imho, looks professional and compact. Not too long for me to hands on
[2015-09-01 11:25:04] vbmithr : I have BitMEX data available in Sierra Chart for those interested
[2015-09-01 13:28:30] vbmithr : What did you think about my request of having websocket data without websocket ?
[2015-09-01 13:30:05] DunningKruger : Guess that guy who bought XLT7D for $2 over spot wasn't too happy...
[2015-09-01 13:34:26] BitMEX_Sam : vbmithr: For now I think it's more complexity than we're willing to deal with for the small optimization, as we'd have to deal with message framing to make it work - even though it would be a bit faster
[2015-09-01 13:34:35] BitMEX_Sam : vbmithr: I think the point will be moot once we have FIX
[2015-09-01 13:35:40] vbmithr : yeah
[2015-09-01 13:35:55] vbmithr : I just say this because I'm struggling a bit with my websocket library :)
[2015-09-01 13:36:29] BitMEX_Sam : Well, raw TCP is likely not going to make it any easier. What's the issue with the WS?
[2015-09-01 13:37:20] vbmithr : mmh, no issue
[2015-09-01 13:37:38] vbmithr : just that I am writing an OCaml websocket lib
[2015-09-01 13:38:06] vbmithr : No but really, I can't complain :)
[2015-09-01 13:39:00] BitMEX_Sam : From scratch? Surprised there isn't something available
[2015-09-01 13:39:20] vbmithr : I wrote the "something available"
[2015-09-01 13:39:26] vbmithr : Yeah apparently nobody else wrote it before me
[2015-09-01 13:39:35] vbmithr : ocaml not much used in the web
[2015-09-01 13:39:38] BitMEX_Sam : So I see
[2015-09-01 13:40:04] vbmithr : You want to support FIX at some point ?
[2015-09-01 13:40:30] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah it's on the roadmap.
[2015-09-01 13:40:34] vbmithr : have a look at this, too: http://blinkprotocol.org/
[2015-09-01 13:40:36] vbmithr : It's interesting.
[2015-09-01 13:40:45] vbmithr : Though I don't know how much it is used
[2015-09-01 13:40:51] vbmithr : It has been created by FIX people I believe
[2015-09-01 13:40:59] BitMEX_Sam : Interesting
[2015-09-01 13:41:08] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah if we had our way we would just send the kdb+ binary format down the pipe
[2015-09-01 13:41:15] BitMEX_Sam : Very exact, very compact, same layout as used in memory
[2015-09-01 13:41:27] BitMEX_Sam : But of course, nobody outside of finance knows how to read it.
[2015-09-01 13:41:44] vbmithr : You could do that easily ?
[2015-09-01 13:41:47] BitMEX_Sam : Very easily
[2015-09-01 13:42:20] BitMEX_Sam : But FIX will likely be the next public-facing protocol because of vendor support
[2015-09-01 13:44:00] vbmithr : I store time series data in leveldb
[2015-09-01 13:44:02] vbmithr : for my project
[2015-09-01 13:46:43] BitMEX_Sam : I hear good things
[2015-09-01 13:46:43] vbmithr : what's the good things about kdb+ ?
[2015-09-01 13:46:59] BitMEX_Sam : kdb+ is used by every tier1 bank for trade data
[2015-09-01 13:47:18] BitMEX_Sam : It's fast, concise, great at vector processing and can be accelerated via AVX instructions on a modern CPU or even a GPU
[2015-09-01 13:47:45] BitMEX_Sam : Of course a lot of market processing is inherently serial so it's built to be the fastest possible system for that
[2015-09-01 13:50:50] vbmithr : ok, I see
[2015-09-01 14:15:46] SnackyCoins : bitfx.info upgraded with dark theme and multichart options :)
[2015-09-01 14:19:56] BitMEX_Sam : Nice
[2015-09-01 14:20:49] BitMEX_Sam : SnackyCoins: I see you have a settlement clock, let me know if you need any help getting price data on there
[2015-09-01 14:20:58] BitMEX_Sam : Also I hate to be that guy, but it's `BitMEX`, not `BitMex` :)
[2015-09-01 14:21:41] SnackyCoins : oh snap it sure is, i'll go ahead and change it now in my source so it will make it in the next push :)
[2015-09-01 14:22:09] SnackyCoins : also just discovered my dark theme doesnt play nice on the individual pages, so that will probably be today lol
[2015-09-01 14:23:16] SnackyCoins : i do have plan for a lot of MEX prices when I add a few different tabs for price tickers (fx focused, commodities focused, crypto futures focused, etc)
[2015-09-01 14:27:25] BitMEX_Sam : Sounds good.
[2015-09-01 14:28:46] SnackyCoins : already done actually (and i always forget to set the listen back to port 80 when i'm done testing, blah)
[2015-09-01 14:34:27] vbmithr : what's turnover ?
[2015-09-01 14:34:34] vbmithr : "instrument", // instrument updates including turnover and bid/ask
[2015-09-01 14:39:53] BitMEX_Sam : vbmithr: Turnover is the value of the contracts traded in the current session
[2015-09-01 14:40:00] BitMEX_Wally : vbmithr: volume is number of contracts traded, turnover is value of contracts traded in Satoshi
[2015-09-01 14:40:10] BitMEX_Wally : Hah, snap
[2015-09-01 14:40:18] BitMEX_Sam : vbmithr: If you're on the site and change to the advanced view, and expand the instruments panel on the bottom, you'll see tooltips for every column
[2015-09-01 14:42:41] vbmithr : Ok I switched to advanced
[2015-09-01 14:43:16] vbmithr : in the API explorer ?
[2015-09-01 14:43:19] vbmithr : I'm a bit lost
[2015-09-01 14:43:29] BitMEX_Sam : In the main site - there's an options dialog on the top right
[2015-09-01 14:43:37] BitMEX_Sam : We have an older trade layout a lot of users still like so we kept it around
[2015-09-01 14:43:40] BitMEX_Sam : It shows a lot more information
[2015-09-01 14:44:08] vbmithr : yes
[2015-09-01 14:44:14] vbmithr : I switched that to advanced
[2015-09-01 14:44:23] BitMEX_Sam : Yep. Then fullscreen the instruments panel at the very bottom
[2015-09-01 14:44:32] BitMEX_Sam : You'll see all the raw columns and explanations of each column if you hover over the header
[2015-09-01 14:46:07] vbmithr : got it
[2015-09-01 14:47:25] vbmithr : and when is the turnover streamed to websocket ?
[2015-09-01 14:48:25] BitMEX_Sam : Every time it updates
[2015-09-01 14:50:29] vbmithr : ok
[2015-09-01 14:50:42] vbmithr : derivatives is more complicated than spot… :)
[2015-09-01 14:50:55] vbmithr : But it's good, I'm learning new things
[2015-09-01 14:52:39] BitMEX_Sam : Yes, much more complicated. :)
[2015-09-01 15:22:02] vbmithr : Sam: nice dashboard but eats all my CPU…
[2015-09-01 15:22:46] horlicks_ : On the topic of FIX, take a look at SBE commissioned by CME: http://mechanical-sympathy.blogspot.com/2014/05/simple-binary-encoding.html
[2015-09-01 15:24:50] BitMEX_Sam : vbmithr: It shouldn't, it usually averages about 12-15% CPU while active and about 2-3% while inactive or less, depending on browser
[2015-09-01 15:24:59] BitMEX_Sam : Thanks for the link horlicks_
[2015-09-01 15:28:27] vbmithr : I exagerated a bit maybe…
[2015-09-01 15:32:43] vbmithr : Do you have a testnet websocket endpoint btw ?
[2015-09-01 15:33:05] BitMEX_Sam : vbmithr: Yep, same as the production one, just sub `www` for `testnet`
[2015-09-01 15:34:28] vbmithr : ok
[2015-09-01 15:34:35] vbmithr : just understood that testnet was based on bitcoin testnet :)
[2015-09-01 15:39:02] BitMEX_Sam : Yep - otherwise it's the same platform
[2015-09-01 15:53:38] vbmithr : really cool
[2015-09-01 15:55:57] chromaticcr : If I recall correctly, some features like UI stuff will go live on testnet first for geeks to have fun,get ready, and give feedbacks
[2015-09-01 15:59:39] BitMEX_Sam : Yep. For instance there's some minor UI changes on there now
[2015-09-01 16:20:58] gustavo7 : *yawn*
[2015-09-01 18:01:31] vbmithr : really not for amateurs, derivatives
[2015-09-01 18:01:49] vbmithr : I guess you have the time to learn about it when you do a business school
[2015-09-01 18:20:10] vbmithr : how does quantos actually hedge from exchange rate risk.
[2015-09-01 18:20:15] vbmithr : I don't understand the mechanism
[2015-09-01 18:22:03] BitMEX_Sam : Quanto contracts generally aren't used for hedging because of their non-linear payoffs
[2015-09-01 18:22:28] BitMEX_Sam : If the price moves too much in either direction you'll blow the hedge if you're using quanto contracts
[2015-09-01 18:24:38] vbmithr : ok
[2015-09-01 18:24:53] vbmithr : need to learn this…
[2015-09-01 18:25:14] BitMEX_Sam : Definite take a look at https://www.bitmex.com/app/faq#what-is-the-difference-between-xbu-and-xbt-bitcoin-futures
[2015-09-01 18:25:23] BitMEX_Sam : Sorry about the link, isn't handling dashes properly
[2015-09-01 18:25:31] BitMEX_Sam : <a href="https://www.bitmex.com/app/faq#what-is-the-difference-between-xbu-and-xbt-bitcoin-futures">FAQ</a>
[2015-09-01 18:25:42] BitMEX_Sam : Ah you're on IRC anyway. So it should work for you
[2015-09-01 18:27:18] vbmithr : yeah
[2015-09-01 18:27:24] vbmithr : the first link was good :)
[2015-09-01 18:27:50] vbmithr : why do people trade derivatives in the first place ?
[2015-09-01 18:28:17] vbmithr : I understand the hedging use case
[2015-09-01 18:28:21] vbmithr : i.e. you are a bitcoin miner
[2015-09-01 18:28:34] BitMEX_Sam : For speculators there's higher leverage to enjoy,
[2015-09-01 18:28:45] vbmithr : or, yes, want to trade other things than the price like the volatility
[2015-09-01 18:28:48] BitMEX_Sam : The ability to make guaranteed or semi-guaranteed profit from premiums,
[2015-09-01 18:29:02] BitMEX_Sam : no swap rates, and no need to deal with fiat
[2015-09-01 18:29:57] BitMEX_Sam : A really nice part is being able to trade other currencies/indices without having to hold the actual asset itself, much like a CFD
[2015-09-01 18:30:11] vbmithr : yeah, I see
[2015-09-01 18:30:17] vbmithr : It's a sort of proxy to anything else
[2015-09-01 18:30:56] BitMEX_Sam : Yep. So we can trade Litecoin or Ether on here without having to actually hold it. In the future, perhaps, other worldwide indices
[2015-09-01 18:31:33] j8 : the `ETH` futures market was really interesting at the start when supply of physical eth was constrained
[2015-09-01 18:32:09] BitMEX_Sam : For sure
[2015-09-01 18:32:11] j8 : everyone knew it was going to dump, but no one had actual eth to dump
[2015-09-01 18:32:22] vbmithr : I see
[2015-09-01 18:32:45] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, ETH7D was trading at less than half of spot because it wasn't possible to sell on other markets for some time
[2015-09-01 18:41:13] vbmithr : I just understood that arbitraging is…
[2015-09-01 18:41:35] vbmithr : more interesting on derivatives than spot
[2015-09-01 18:42:14] BitMEX_Sam : Yes, much more. And you can use it as a hedge for spot arb while you sit through transaction delays
[2015-09-01 18:57:32] vbmithr : what is a "trading session" here ?
[2015-09-01 18:57:36] vbmithr : 24h vs "trading session"
[2015-09-01 18:57:48] BitMEX_Sam : 8hrs
[2015-09-01 18:58:00] BitMEX_Sam : On XBU that's when the limit up / limit down are reset
[2015-09-01 18:59:14] vbmithr : Can I know the number of trades per symbol ?
[2015-09-01 19:01:37] vbmithr : and the daily number of trades ?
[2015-09-01 19:04:54] BitMEX_Sam : https://www.bitmex.com/api/explorer/#!/stats/find
[2015-09-01 19:05:19] BitMEX_Sam : We don't actually expose the raw # of trades, just volume and turnover, if you wanted to figure out how many trades happened per day you could do a per-symbol call to /trade and filter between dates
[2015-09-01 19:09:11] vbmithr : okay
[2015-09-01 19:09:20] vbmithr : I just implement a basic DTC interface
[2015-09-01 19:09:29] vbmithr : I'm gonna keep harder to implement things for later.
[2015-09-01 19:09:38] vbmithr : It turns out to be not-so-hard
[2015-09-01 19:14:49] j8 : big arbs with okc weekly and quarterly these days
[2015-09-01 19:16:50] j8 : they really overreact over there
[2015-09-01 19:23:09] vbmithr : interesting :)
[2015-09-01 19:23:17] vbmithr : Ok, so I'm doing good progress with DTC to BitMEX
[2015-09-01 19:23:44] vbmithr : In one week or two you will be able to trade on bitmex with Sierra Chart beta
[2015-09-01 19:23:54] vbmithr : and for free :p
[2015-09-01 19:28:17] vbmithr : Congratulation BitMEX, you're the first exchange that is not a pita to map to the DTC protocol
[2015-09-01 19:29:36] j8 : very cool, haven't used it, is it really free or free trial software?
[2015-09-02 00:18:48] TraderStefan : I like the new fee schedule
[2015-09-02 00:20:39] TraderStefan : Glad that BitMEX will be making some revenue
[2015-09-02 01:47:59] chromaticcr : J8, just keep an eye on the horrible.clawback that could happen over at Chinese platforms.... Got burned doing that like twice already
[2015-09-02 01:49:13] j8 : chromaticcr: yeah, i'm aware it's playing with fire.
[2015-09-02 02:19:29] BitMEX_Arthur : Morning traders
[2015-09-02 02:19:40] BitMEX_Arthur : China is dumping again
[2015-09-02 02:31:28] j8 : spam attack is underway.
[2015-09-02 02:34:31] j8 : they're sure spending a lot on fees to make a point
[2015-09-02 02:35:52] zanza : morning Arthur
[2015-09-02 02:45:44] joequant : I'm not see a bitcoin dump. I'm seeing a Shanghai stock dump.
[2015-09-02 02:46:06] joequant : Shanghai has still another 20% to go, the PE ratios are still too high.
[2015-09-02 02:48:50] bitcoinvsevil : Sam here?
[2015-09-02 02:50:56] BitMEX_Sam : bitcoinvsevil: Yeah, what's up?
[2015-09-02 03:15:05] lolcookie : wtf someone shorting like mad
[2015-09-02 03:15:47] lolcookie : just blew up the bids on xbt7d
[2015-09-02 03:23:13] lolcookie : BitMEX_Sam: do you guys have plans for trailing stops? Setting a bunch of limit orders is annoying
[2015-09-02 03:29:34] cengel : you mean stop limit orders
[2015-09-02 03:32:49] Matthew.v : how about dem bergs?
[2015-09-02 03:35:19] lolcookie : no cengel i mean trailing stops
[2015-09-02 03:35:39] lolcookie : lol stop limit is equally annoying
[2015-09-02 03:51:23] cengel : trailing stop would require stop limits. limit will only take profit
[2015-09-02 03:59:22] lolcookie : stop limit doesnt follow the price what are you talking about
[2015-09-02 04:10:01] cengel : feel free to learn what a trailing stop is: http://www.investopedia.com/articles/trading/03/080603.asp
[2015-09-02 04:13:06] cengel : @lolcookie ^
[2015-09-02 04:24:01] BitMEX_Wally : lolcookie: What I think cengel is saying, is that because we do not support Trailing Stops, instead you have to place and cancel many Stop Limit orders?
[2015-09-02 04:25:03] BitMEX_Wally : If you were long and had a stop sell order, as the price rises you keep adjusting the stop price upwards?
[2015-09-02 04:34:16] lolcookie : yeah which is a pain in the ass
[2015-09-02 04:34:50] lolcookie : I literally wake up and find the book has been blown while I was asleep and lose out on a good trade
[2015-09-02 04:41:48] chromaticcr : joequant: I see a global dump instead, just that China would go first, HODL Bitcoin lol
[2015-09-02 04:42:14] BitMEX_Arthur : chromaticcr: We need some more price action in Bitcoin
[2015-09-02 04:42:16] BitMEX_Arthur : this shit is boring
[2015-09-02 04:42:35] BitMEX_Arthur : Fuck HODL, 25x leveraged futures :)
[2015-09-02 04:43:36] chromaticcr : BitMEX_Arthur: Haha, I guess that is too much for a long term hedge against the collapsing financial system. Leave the 25x for Chinese :wink:
[2015-09-02 04:44:08] BitMEX_Arthur : chromaticcr: You can HODL `XBTH16`
[2015-09-02 04:46:21] chromaticcr : Ya, saw your article yesterday. Perhaps @joequant you will be interested in this piece too
[2015-09-02 04:51:53] thegloryofgod : Hello to all...I just joined - I am a Chris Dunn Bitcoin mentor student. Anyone here from Chris Dunn ? Also this 20 x leverage- we can short as well? Is it truly a 25 leverage and what are the true costs in fees when all is said and done? Anyone here mind sharing their honest experience here at Bitmex...? Thanks all in advance
[2015-09-02 04:53:33] BitMEX_Arthur : thegloryofgod: Hi
[2015-09-02 04:54:28] BitMEX_Arthur : I would love to answer all your questions in detail, I will shoot you an email and we can talk out of this chat so it's faster
[2015-09-02 04:55:43] thegloryofgod : Hello all...sorry for the newbie feel...I'm just pumped and need to read all first...cool: Kleimang@bellsouth.net
[2015-09-02 04:56:16] thegloryofgod : Coinsetter or Krakken..anyone?
[2015-09-02 04:57:59] miratrader : thegloryofgod, my honest experience (trading here since June): very good platform, people who run it are always here answering questions, issues are fixed fast. Liquidity is a bit low but improving.
[2015-09-02 05:09:49] thegloryofgod : Miratrader: thank you...how is the actual 25x leverage working out- the bottom line and what others are directly experiencing...sorry this isn't a late night interrogation- I'm just excited and wary
[2015-09-02 05:14:59] lolcookie : someone bear xlt pls
[2015-09-02 05:24:19] lolcookie : what is coin even doing right now
[2015-09-02 05:25:20] zanza : this site/interface is the best of any site I have used, very quick/easy/responsive
[2015-09-02 05:25:44] zanza : hopefully liquidity improves, and possible adding some interesting contracts as well for the future
[2015-09-02 05:30:33] chromaticcr : hello guys~ Just a ping to see if y'all are good coding people or quantitive guys, there are some nice API to use here
[2015-09-02 05:43:41] BitMEX_Arthur : Basic explanation of how 25x leverage works, https://blog.bitmex.com/how-to-trade-with-25x-leverage/
[2015-09-02 05:52:59] zanza : Arthur you need to start giving examples where people lose their shirts :)
[2015-09-02 05:53:39] BitMEX_Arthur : Think happy thoughts
[2015-09-02 05:55:43] BitMEX_Arthur : More happy thoughts, more counterparties
[2015-09-02 06:32:24] lolcookie : I rarely go over 10x leverage
[2015-09-02 06:32:33] lolcookie : prefer to hang around 5
[2015-09-02 06:32:46] lolcookie : greed is almost always punished
[2015-09-02 06:39:26] zanza : higher leverage means you can get bossed around also
[2015-09-02 07:34:26] zanza : XBTZ15 has some nice volume
[2015-09-02 07:40:14] TInvest : jeepers bitstamp is a mess
[2015-09-02 07:40:26] BitMEX_Arthur : What's going on there
[2015-09-02 07:41:38] TInvest : oh just the travel on a 5 minute candle
[2015-09-02 07:41:41] TInvest : bouncy bouncy
[2015-09-02 07:42:50] TInvest : i think more of the trade is sitting outside the bollinger bands on 5min than inside
[2015-09-02 07:44:11] TInvest : first place I trade though, thought that was just par for hte course
[2015-09-02 07:56:42] bitcoinvsevil : hi
[2015-09-02 07:57:07] bitcoinvsevil : Arthur here?
[2015-09-02 07:57:17] BitMEX_Arthur : bitcoinvsevil: How can I help
[2015-09-02 07:58:14] bitcoinvsevil : I am interested in your service.....am I seeing an easy as pie cash/carry trade with your xbt and futures contract?
[2015-09-02 07:58:31] BitMEX_Arthur : What questions do you have about that strategy
[2015-09-02 07:58:57] bitcoinvsevil : Well....sometimes things look too good to be true....
[2015-09-02 07:59:33] bitcoinvsevil : So for example.....if I did a 25 dollar spread with Dec......that's cash in my pocket?
[2015-09-02 07:59:50] BitMEX_Arthur : Basically because XBT is linear in Bitcoin terms, but quadratic in USD terms, if the price trades outside a upper or lower bound you will lose money
[2015-09-02 08:00:26] BitMEX_Arthur : But you can solve for the upper and lower bound pre-trade and make a judgement if you think the volatility will be greater than the spread between the two bounds
[2015-09-02 08:00:28] bitcoinvsevil : How is that if I own the underlined commodity?
[2015-09-02 08:00:53] BitMEX_Arthur : That assumes you buy spot and sell future so that at the beginning your XBT and USD exposure is flat
[2015-09-02 08:01:01] BitMEX_Arthur : these exposures will change as the spot price moves
[2015-09-02 08:01:09] BitMEX_Arthur : because of the payoff properties of the XBT series
[2015-09-02 08:01:12] bitcoinvsevil : That is the example I used.
[2015-09-02 08:01:47] BitMEX_Arthur : https://blog.bitmex.com/xbt-vs-xbu-chain/
[2015-09-02 08:02:02] bitcoinvsevil : Why can't I just cover with bitcoin?
[2015-09-02 08:02:07] BitMEX_Arthur : you can
[2015-09-02 08:02:24] BitMEX_Arthur : but that article gives you an explanation of the return profile of the 25x leveraged futures
[2015-09-02 08:02:39] bitcoinvsevil : So how would I lose if I sold the future....but held bitcoin?
[2015-09-02 08:03:04] BitMEX_Arthur : Assume that you dynamically hedge as the price moves to keep your USD exposure flat
[2015-09-02 08:03:11] bitcoinvsevil : I'm not asking about leverage
[2015-09-02 08:03:20] BitMEX_Arthur : as the price rises you buy bitcoin, as the price falls you sell bitcoin
[2015-09-02 08:03:25] BitMEX_Arthur : so you are short volatility
[2015-09-02 08:03:41] bitcoinvsevil : But that is not the strategy I am asking about.
[2015-09-02 08:03:59] BitMEX_Arthur : You want to buy Bitcoin and short `XBTZ15` for example?
[2015-09-02 08:04:03] bitcoinvsevil : I'm buying bitcoin at 100. Selling DEC for 125.....
[2015-09-02 08:04:13] bitcoinvsevil : collecting $25
[2015-09-02 08:04:17] bitcoinvsevil : at expiration
[2015-09-02 08:04:29] BitMEX_Arthur : right but you would be selling `XBTZ15` right?
[2015-09-02 08:04:38] BitMEX_Arthur : the one that we classify as speculative
[2015-09-02 08:04:41] bitcoinvsevil : if bitcoin goes down....the future value goe sup....
[2015-09-02 08:04:45] BitMEX_Arthur : this is an important distinction
[2015-09-02 08:04:47] bitcoinvsevil : goes up
[2015-09-02 08:04:49] BitMEX_Arthur : we have two types of futures
[2015-09-02 08:05:18] BitMEX_Arthur : using a concrete example which contract would you want to trade with on BitMEX to do your strategy?
[2015-09-02 08:05:27] bitcoinvsevil : DEC
[2015-09-02 08:05:34] bitcoinvsevil : Z15
[2015-09-02 08:05:44] BitMEX_Arthur : Ok we have two Dec futures, XBT or XBU?
[2015-09-02 08:05:56] BitMEX_Arthur : One has 25x leverage, one has 5x leverage
[2015-09-02 08:06:36] bitcoinvsevil : Does not matter if I am covering with full amount of the underlying future....
[2015-09-02 08:07:07] bitcoinvsevil : If bitcoin is 100 bucks.....I will use 2500 bucks worth of bitcoin in the spread
[2015-09-02 08:07:39] BitMEX_Arthur : XBTZ15 is trading at $250, and XBUZ15 is trading at $231
[2015-09-02 08:07:42] bitcoinvsevil : If bitcoin goes down....the future value goes up cuz I am shorting
[2015-09-02 08:07:49] BitMEX_Arthur : You want to trade XBTZ15 right?
[2015-09-02 08:07:58] bitcoinvsevil : Right
[2015-09-02 08:08:18] BitMEX_Arthur : Ok XBT prefixed contracts have a Bitcoin multiplier of 0.0001 XBT per $1 move
[2015-09-02 08:08:40] BitMEX_Arthur : Meaning if the price goes up 1%, the Bitcoin value goes up by 1%, but the USD value goes up by 1%^2
[2015-09-02 08:09:15] BitMEX_Arthur : So if you short `XBTZ15` and hedge with spot Bitcoin to earn the spread, as the price moves you are not flat in USD terms
[2015-09-02 08:09:24] BitMEX_Arthur : Does that make sense to you?
[2015-09-02 08:09:30] bitcoinvsevil : But again.....if I am covering with the full amount of the underlying commodity.....why should that matter?
[2015-09-02 08:09:59] bitcoinvsevil : I'm buying bitcoin......then shorting the future.....cash and carry spread.
[2015-09-02 08:10:00] BitMEX_Arthur : Let me give you an example, you sell XBTZ15 and the price goes up by 10% what is your loss in USD terms?
[2015-09-02 08:10:18] bitcoinvsevil : 25
[2015-09-02 08:10:44] bitcoinvsevil : assuming its 250
[2015-09-02 08:11:07] bitcoinvsevil : But I bought......bitcoin at 225 so its now at 250
[2015-09-02 08:12:08] BitMEX_Wally : But the instrument is margined and settled in Bitcoin
[2015-09-02 08:12:16] BitMEX_Wally : There are no dollars deposits
[2015-09-02 08:12:32] BitMEX_Wally : So if your are short XBTZ15 and it goes up 10% then you have a 10% loss in Bitcoin
[2015-09-02 08:12:33] bitcoinvsevil : And I covered in bitcoin.
[2015-09-02 08:12:44] BitMEX_Wally : But the Bitcoin is now worth 10% more, so you actually have a 11% loss in USD
[2015-09-02 08:12:51] bitcoinvsevil : But a 10% gain in the the bitcoin I bought to cover the spread
[2015-09-02 08:12:59] BitMEX_Wally : Yeah, you have a 10% gain because you are covered
[2015-09-02 08:13:04] BitMEX_Wally : But an 11% loss on the future
[2015-09-02 08:13:09] BitMEX_Wally : So you over all have lost 1%
[2015-09-02 08:13:14] BitMEX_Wally : That is what we mean by short gamma
[2015-09-02 08:13:22] bitcoinvsevil : How do you figure that?
[2015-09-02 08:13:35] BitMEX_Wally : XBTZ15 is a quanto contract
[2015-09-02 08:13:40] BitMEX_Wally : It pays out a linear amount in Bitcoin
[2015-09-02 08:13:41] bitcoinvsevil : English....
[2015-09-02 08:13:45] BitMEX_Wally : But you are thinking in dollars...
[2015-09-02 08:14:18] bitcoinvsevil : So should it not......go up "quanto" in bitcoin if I covered in....bitcoin?
[2015-09-02 08:14:19] BitMEX_Wally : If I give you a 10% return in Bitcoin, you need to convert that Bitcoin to dollars to do your calculations...
[2015-09-02 08:14:40] BitMEX_Arthur : bitcoinvsevil: This is obviously confusing, you aren't the first person to ask these questions I'm going to write up a blog post with graphs and a numerical example to help you and others understand
[2015-09-02 08:15:29] BitMEX_Wally : bitcoinvsevil: In the mean time read the blog post https://blog.bitmex.com/xbt-vs-xbu-chain/
[2015-09-02 08:19:07] bitcoinvsevil : So what strategy would I use for a cash and carry trade then? XBU?
[2015-09-02 08:19:26] BitMEX_Wally : If you want to be perfectly hedged then yes, XBU
[2015-09-02 08:19:46] BitMEX_Wally : But you can use the strategy on XBT if you re-hedge as needed
[2015-09-02 08:20:06] BitMEX_Wally : If you a short quanto then a 10% move in either direction is a 1% loss (10% of 10%).
[2015-09-02 08:20:38] BitMEX_Wally : So if you earn more than 1% premium on the carry, you can cope with a +/- 10% move in spot while still making profit
[2015-09-02 08:22:01] bitcoinvsevil : Bitcoin can move 10% in an hour.
[2015-09-02 08:22:22] BitMEX_Wally : Yep
[2015-09-02 08:22:47] bitcoinvsevil : I"m still not understanding how if I am using bitcoin to cover selling a future.....anything matters. If the future goes up....so does the bitcoin.
[2015-09-02 08:22:51] vbmithr : Yo, BitMEX
[2015-09-02 08:23:14] BitMEX_Wally : bitcoinvsevil: Let me give you a simple example
[2015-09-02 08:23:23] BitMEX_Arthur : vbmithr: Sup?
[2015-09-02 08:23:35] BitMEX_Wally : Let's say you buy 1 bitcoin spot at 250 dollars
[2015-09-02 08:23:47] BitMEX_Wally : And you sell 400 futures of XBTZ15 at 250
[2015-09-02 08:23:50] vbmithr : Sup ? :)
[2015-09-02 08:24:07] BitMEX_Wally : bitcoinvsevil: So you are perfectly edge, and your PNL should be 0 as the price moves up and down?
[2015-09-02 08:24:15] BitMEX_Wally : *perfectly hedged
[2015-09-02 08:25:26] BitMEX_Wally : bitcoinvsevil: With me so far?
[2015-09-02 08:25:34] bitcoinvsevil : Yes
[2015-09-02 08:25:43] BitMEX_Wally : Now let's say the price goes to 200 dollars
[2015-09-02 08:25:50] BitMEX_Wally : You have lost 50 dollars on your spot position?
[2015-09-02 08:26:32] BitMEX_Wally : And your XBTZ15 position has lost 400*50*0.00001 = 0.2 Bitcoin
[2015-09-02 08:26:58] BitMEX_Wally : Sorry, your XBTZ15 has made 0.2 Bitcoin
[2015-09-02 08:27:07] bitcoinvsevil : Yes
[2015-09-02 08:27:15] BitMEX_Wally : How much is that 0.2 Bitcoin now worth?
[2015-09-02 08:27:31] bitcoinvsevil : 40
[2015-09-02 08:27:39] BitMEX_Wally : So you made 40 on the future, but lost 50 on the spot
[2015-09-02 08:27:43] BitMEX_Wally : 10 loss
[2015-09-02 08:27:53] BitMEX_Wally : Now let's say the price goes to 300
[2015-09-02 08:27:58] BitMEX_Wally : Same calculations
[2015-09-02 08:28:22] BitMEX_Wally : You make 50 on spot, but lose 0.2 XBT on the future
[2015-09-02 08:28:39] BitMEX_Wally : 0.2 XBT loss at 300 dollars is 60 dollars
[2015-09-02 08:28:51] BitMEX_Wally : So a 10 dollar loss again
[2015-09-02 08:29:16] bitcoinvsevil : I see
[2015-09-02 08:29:18] BitMEX_Wally : Even though you have covered the delta, you have not covered the short USD gamma
[2015-09-02 08:29:33] BitMEX_Wally : This is why everyone loves to be long XBT contracts :)
[2015-09-02 08:29:51] BitMEX_Wally : And no-one likes to be short unless the premium is enough to cover this risk
[2015-09-02 08:29:54] bitcoinvsevil : So why did Sam show up in TV saying that I could do a strategy similar to swaps?
[2015-09-02 08:30:36] BitMEX_Wally : You can, you just have to price it in
[2015-09-02 08:31:00] bitcoinvsevil : There are no losses in swaps
[2015-09-02 08:31:09] bitcoinvsevil : You just earn daily interest by lending
[2015-09-02 08:31:28] BitMEX_Wally : You have a default risk on Bitfinex
[2015-09-02 08:31:48] BitMEX_Wally : They take 15% of your interest earn as a fee, etc
[2015-09-02 08:31:58] bitcoinvsevil : You can say that about any financial institution...
[2015-09-02 08:32:10] bitcoinvsevil : You guys are registered in some island by Africa....
[2015-09-02 08:32:32] BitMEX_Wally : I mean if a trader on Bitfinex is not liquidated in time, and goes bankrupt, then the swap defaults
[2015-09-02 08:32:36] bitcoinvsevil : for 25% anualized a year.....15% seems pretty cheap
[2015-09-02 08:33:14] bitcoinvsevil : Show me where in N.America you can earn 21% volatile free interest.
[2015-09-02 08:33:22] BitMEX_Wally : XBTH16 is trading at an implied basis of 50%
[2015-09-02 08:33:34] BitMEX_Wally : annualised
[2015-09-02 08:33:48] bitcoinvsevil : Right
[2015-09-02 08:34:01] bitcoinvsevil : But you just showed me how if bitcoin goes up......I lose money
[2015-09-02 08:34:25] bitcoinvsevil : Even if I own bitcoin
[2015-09-02 08:34:26] BitMEX_Wally : I showed you that if you short the future and buy spot _at the same price_
[2015-09-02 08:34:28] BitMEX_Wally : I.e. no premium
[2015-09-02 08:34:35] BitMEX_Wally : Then you lose money if the price goes up or down
[2015-09-02 08:35:01] BitMEX_Wally : That's why you short the future at 250 (say) and buy spot at 225 (say)
[2015-09-02 08:35:10] BitMEX_Wally : Then you have 25 dollars premium
[2015-09-02 08:35:22] BitMEX_Wally : And even if spot moves +/- 50 dollars you'll still keep 15 dollars of that
[2015-09-02 08:35:37] vbmithr : Is the chart of BitMEX indices interesting ?
[2015-09-02 08:35:51] vbmithr : I mean, would customers want to see charts of indices in addition of charts of instruments ?
[2015-09-02 08:36:09] bitcoinvsevil : So whats the trade here? That is like a swap?
[2015-09-02 08:36:12] BitMEX_Wally : Yes, we intend to add index charts soon
[2015-09-02 08:36:28] vbmithr : Ok thanks.
[2015-09-02 08:36:33] vbmithr : I'll add them to Sierra Chart too
[2015-09-02 08:36:57] BitMEX_Wally : bitcoinvsevil: Sell XBU and buy spot is like lending USD swaps
[2015-09-02 08:37:24] BitMEX_Wally : bitcoinvsevil: Sell XBT and buy spot, and keep an eye on the price and buy/sell spot as needed to keep it in hedge, is more profitable than just lending out swaps
[2015-09-02 08:40:32] bitcoinvsevil : xbu December.....is spot. Where is the trade?
[2015-09-02 08:40:56] BitMEX_Arthur : bitcoinvsevil: Right now I agree selling that contract and buying spot is not attractive
[2015-09-02 08:41:33] BitMEX_Arthur : But selling XBTZ15 can be attractive given your view on how volatile spot will be between now and December
[2015-09-02 08:42:17] bitcoinvsevil : I said it can be
[2015-09-02 08:42:22] bitcoinvsevil : Not that it will be
[2015-09-02 08:42:36] bitcoinvsevil : I'm just looking for a nice return. Not to gamble.
[2015-09-02 08:42:55] bitcoinvsevil : Which was why I enjoyed using BFX before they blew up....
[2015-09-02 08:44:30] bitcoinvsevil : Now bitfinex is barely paying 10%.....
[2015-09-02 08:44:46] vbmithr : did anybody read dynamic hedging by Taleb ?
[2015-09-02 08:45:00] bitcoinvsevil : nope
[2015-09-02 08:45:28] vbmithr : Now that I joined here I feel like understanding derivatives
[2015-09-02 08:47:04] bitcoinvsevil : So there really is no trade then?
[2015-09-02 08:47:13] bitcoinvsevil : That pays well? Fire and forget?
[2015-09-02 08:47:38] BitMEX_Wally : No such thing as a free lunch
[2015-09-02 08:48:01] bitcoinvsevil : It was pretty close to free on Finex.....
[2015-09-02 08:48:08] bitcoinvsevil : Was making 25%.....
[2015-09-02 08:48:32] vbmithr : and who lost money then. Who was at the other end of your transactions ?
[2015-09-02 08:49:00] DunningKruger : Even a free lunch can have unintended side effects until it leaves your arsehole.
[2015-09-02 08:49:00] bitcoinvsevil : I have no idea if anyone won or lost.
[2015-09-02 08:49:08] bitcoinvsevil : They were just borrowing money
[2015-09-02 08:49:32] vbmithr : ok
[2015-09-02 08:49:36] vbmithr : and you were lending, then
[2015-09-02 08:49:44] bitcoinvsevil : Yes.....
[2015-09-02 08:50:06] bitcoinvsevil : And I was to understand I could do that here.....but it looks like I may have been mistaken.
[2015-09-02 08:51:31] bitcoinvsevil : Am I mistaken BitMEX?
[2015-09-02 08:53:35] bitcoinvsevil : Anyone?
[2015-09-02 08:54:02] BitMEX_Wally : bitcoinvsevil: We do not take USD deposits, and we do not have a swaps market
[2015-09-02 08:54:38] horlicks_ : As Arthur said, you can do the same kind of trade with XBT, but there's no money in it at the moment
[2015-09-02 08:54:44] bitcoinvsevil : So your just a gambling service?
[2015-09-02 08:54:54] horlicks_ : Is that expected to change?
[2015-09-02 08:55:07] BitMEX_Wally : You can do that trade with XBU, there just isn't enough money in it for you
[2015-09-02 08:55:16] BitMEX_Wally : You can do that trade with XBT, you just don't like the gamma risk
[2015-09-02 08:55:37] BitMEX_Wally : We offer products for hedging and speculation
[2015-09-02 08:55:57] bitcoinvsevil : Will you be offering lending swaps in the future?
[2015-09-02 08:56:30] BitMEX_Wally : No plans at the moment
[2015-09-02 08:56:52] bitcoinvsevil : Okay thanks for your time. I really appreciate it....
[2015-09-02 08:57:04] BitMEX_Wally : No worries, we're always happy to answer questions
[2015-09-02 08:57:40] BitMEX_Wally : You might want to look at shorting XBTH16 and going long XBTZ15 to hedge
[2015-09-02 08:57:48] BitMEX_Wally : Trading the calendar spread
[2015-09-02 12:31:53] vbmithr : I can open multiple websocket connections from the same IP, right ?
[2015-09-02 13:28:20] BitMEX_Sam : vbmithr: Yes, that's no problem
[2015-09-02 13:41:26] vbmithr : I'm getting 504 Gateway Timeout errors in the websocket sometimes
[2015-09-02 13:43:00] BitMEX_Sam : vbmithr: On the initial handshake?
[2015-09-02 13:43:11] vbmithr : No, after
[2015-09-02 13:44:16] BitMEX_Sam : Hmm, once the TCP connection is established there shouldn't even be a way for it to throw HTTP error codes
[2015-09-02 13:44:21] BitMEX_Sam : Are you asking for images through it?
[2015-09-02 13:44:27] vbmithr : No.
[2015-09-02 13:44:30] vbmithr : I need to check my code
[2015-09-02 13:44:35] vbmithr : I suspect sth is wrong in my code.
[2015-09-02 13:44:39] BitMEX_Sam : Ah
[2015-09-02 13:44:47] BitMEX_Sam : Might be. Once that's established it's json or bust
[2015-09-02 13:44:59] vbmithr : yes. That's exactly it.
[2015-09-02 13:56:28] vbmithr : yeah, my mistake
[2015-09-02 13:56:31] vbmithr : wrong api endpoint
[2015-09-02 14:01:54] vbmithr : HA
[2015-09-02 14:02:10] vbmithr : Sam: there is an inconsistency between the trade object returned by the REST vs Websocket
[2015-09-02 14:02:24] vbmithr : the timestamp field is a string in REST and a int in websocket
[2015-09-02 14:02:36] vbmithr : that kind of thing is very annoying, could you fix this
[2015-09-02 14:02:37] vbmithr : ?
[2015-09-02 14:03:46] BitMEX_Sam : vbmithr: Are you getting from the bucketed endpoint
[2015-09-02 14:03:53] BitMEX_Sam : Ah nvm. I see what you mean
[2015-09-02 14:04:00] BitMEX_Sam : It should be an int everywhere
[2015-09-02 14:04:01] vbmithr : no
[2015-09-02 14:04:32] vbmithr : as long as it is the same between the two apis… :)
[2015-09-02 14:05:15] BitMEX_Sam : Right. Well, changing it in the REST API everywhere would require an announcement because there may be users depending on that
[2015-09-02 14:05:25] BitMEX_Sam : So for now, sorry, will have to deal with it, we will roll out a fix.
[2015-09-02 14:06:12] vbmithr : okay
[2015-09-02 14:37:05] BitMEX_Sam : vbmithr: Okay, we've made an announcement about it. The websocket will use the same timestamp format as the REST API starting Monday
[2015-09-02 14:37:29] BitMEX_Sam : It's already been deployed to Testnet.
[2015-09-02 14:50:08] vbmithr : okay, thanks!
[2015-09-02 14:50:15] vbmithr : And the value is always in ms, right ?
[2015-09-02 14:51:17] vbmithr : announced where, btw ?
[2015-09-02 14:51:35] vbmithr : websocket same as REST ?
[2015-09-02 14:51:39] vbmithr : So it means, a string ?
[2015-09-02 14:52:35] vbmithr : Ah, I see where :)
[2015-09-02 14:55:03] vbmithr : Yes, best to use ISO, because it is clear it is in ms.
[2015-09-02 17:22:42] krtek.net : Depends, for time values, it is best to use epoch = unix time, it's shorter than ISO a unambigious, because its always UTC. For date only values it is the best to use the date part of the ISO format... Using virtually anything else is a path to hell due to timezones and daylight savings.
[2015-09-02 17:23:32] krtek.net : also don't even think about using native Date object of JavaScript/ECMAScript, this thing is broken by spec, use moment.js. always.
[2015-09-02 17:23:44] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, it's horribly broken, especially in Safari.
[2015-09-02 17:24:06] BitMEX_Sam : In JSON, there's not much of a size difference in favor of ms timestamps vs ISO strings because it's all text
[2015-09-02 17:24:26] BitMEX_Sam : What I like about ISO is that it's human readable and the precision is obvious.
[2015-09-02 17:24:39] BitMEX_Sam : And of course, all timestamps are always UTC, thus the `Z` suffix.
[2015-09-02 17:25:22] krtek.net : yep, but than you need to use it with explicit timezone or Z... or negotiative in front what the "local" timezone is. But that would be a pita anyway.
[2015-09-02 17:25:56] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, we always send with Z
[2015-09-02 17:26:05] BitMEX_Sam : No use figuring out local timezones.
[2015-09-02 17:26:21] BitMEX_Sam : Browsers don't send a proper header that would allow you to figure it out, anyway. You have to do it in JS after the render