This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2016-08-04 23:27:13] Skitrx : you can't just sell part of a company and say "now these virtual coins are worth that amount"
[2016-08-04 23:28:57] aethlios : Skitrx:it will be like a stock, 1 coin=1 stock of bitfinex, receiving dividend. so they eill have value.
[2016-08-04 23:29:38] Skitrx : dividents are paid on profits, it sounds like users would get screwed
[2016-08-04 23:32:02] biglez : Why would my long from 535 be in negative roe ....bitmex display errors?
[2016-08-04 23:32:24] ayy_lmao : because of how funding works
[2016-08-04 23:32:59] biglez : hmmm ok well thanks
[2016-08-04 23:33:07] ayy_lmao : ur not at a loss
[2016-08-04 23:33:14] ayy_lmao : im trying to find a way to explain it
[2016-08-04 23:34:04] aethlios : biglez: what is your realised PNL??? every 24hours rebalance happens
[2016-08-04 23:34:19] biglez : its negative
[2016-08-04 23:34:21] ayy_lmao : the rebalance will change your entry to whatever the price was at rebalance
[2016-08-04 23:34:29] ayy_lmao : so it represents the pnl since rebalance
[2016-08-04 23:34:40] biglez : but yesterday at 569 my roe was 170%
[2016-08-04 23:34:42] ayy_lmao : however if u close your position your profit is still there
[2016-08-04 23:34:49] biglez : ok
[2016-08-04 23:34:56] ayy_lmao : bitmex needs to do a better job at showing your previous profit
[2016-08-04 23:35:01] biglez : i think i got it
[2016-08-04 23:35:03] ayy_lmao : and show the new entry
[2016-08-04 23:35:13] biglez : yea it still shows my initial entry
[2016-08-04 23:35:15] ayy_lmao : its hard to explain but you will get used to how it works
[2016-08-04 23:35:28] biglez : ok well thanks for the info
[2016-08-04 23:36:04] ayy_lmao : so in summary that basically shows the pnl from last rebalance but doesnt add on your previous pnl
[2016-08-04 23:36:38] ayy_lmao : you wont know unless you remember or close the position, it might show in your account wallet
[2016-08-04 23:36:46] ayy_lmao : https://www.bitmex.com/app/wallet
[2016-08-04 23:36:52] biglez : ok
[2016-08-04 23:37:12] biglez : ah ya there it is
[2016-08-04 23:37:15] biglez : thanks dude!
[2016-08-04 23:46:52] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 102 @ 0.01898
[2016-08-05 00:02:04] ayy_lmao : still waiting on bitmex to add an unrealized pnl based off orderbook right next to the current one
[2016-08-05 00:02:15] ayy_lmao : dont see a reason you can't have both
[2016-08-05 00:07:49] Rado : actually I only want pnl based on order book
[2016-08-05 00:07:58] Rado : who cares about the pnl based on mark price
[2016-08-05 00:08:06] Rado : you can't sell at mark price
[2016-08-05 00:08:15] Rado : mark price it's just for liquidations
[2016-08-05 00:10:14] miramm1115 : Rado: profit is realized at mark price druing rebalance, so you need both
[2016-08-05 00:17:21] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETC7D`: Sell 280 @ 0.004044
[2016-08-05 00:28:41] jesperf : mr bitfinex spokesman just said "nope, no site today, maybe tomorrow"
[2016-08-05 00:33:54] lockhedge : "we are leaning towards a socialized loss scenario among bitcoin balances and active loans to BTCUSD positions" sounds insane
[2016-08-05 00:34:34] habibi : have better solution?
[2016-08-05 00:40:22] lockhedge : 1. their company's profits/equity should be fully used to compensate the loss of customer funds 2. equal hair cut for everyone, not socialized losses for their btc retail customers (90% of USD balances belong to corporate customers)
[2016-08-05 00:41:04] Mm bot : I saw XBTEUR on testnet, when is that coming?
[2016-08-05 00:42:27] micmix : lockhedge: yeah, it's crazy and most likely illegal. I'll be happy if our USD balance will be untouched but that's not how you are supposed to do business
[2016-08-05 00:44:36] habibi : ad 1. u would wait years for that to be done - eg mtgox
[2016-08-05 00:45:49] habibi : ad 2. Are u sure? or maybe information was 80+ of fiat deposits to bfx are coming from corporates ?
[2016-08-05 00:45:52] habibi : 80%
[2016-08-05 00:47:17] micmix : I'm sure their biggest customers have verified accounts and USD balances, and they will do everything to avoid lawsuits from customers with money
[2016-08-05 00:48:13] lockhedge : habibi: "In 2015, 88% of the dollars deposited to and withdrawn from Bitfinex were by corporate users." http://www.cftc.gov/idc/groups/public/@lrenforcementactions/documents/legalpleading/enfbfxnaorder060216.pdf
[2016-08-05 00:48:54] habibi : thanks
[2016-08-05 00:49:03] rapidtrades : who cares if they're corporates
[2016-08-05 00:51:57] lockhedge : rapidtrades: bailing out big customers and themselves while socializing all the losses among retail customers sounds fair for you?
[2016-08-05 00:52:06] rapidtrades : they're not going up today as i expected, time to go back to bed
[2016-08-05 00:52:16] rapidtrades : FU*CK FAIR THE LAW'S THE LAW
[2016-08-05 00:53:29] habibi : lockhedge: but who said that retail customers held bitcoins mostly?
[2016-08-05 00:56:14] rapidtrades : ^^^ i was short
[2016-08-05 00:56:27] rapidtrades : certaintly not a corporate
[2016-08-05 00:56:45] lockhedge : habibi: just a guess that most of their customers were unverified and deposited/withdrew crypto only
[2016-08-05 00:56:47] rapidtrades : we're getting shafted too by marking our shorts $30 below market
[2016-08-05 00:57:01] rapidtrades : above market
[2016-08-05 00:58:06] rapidtrades : im not sure what's the right solution here from a legal side, my point being that there's no terms like 'fair' or 'corporate' or big/small when it comes to bankruptsy law
[2016-08-05 00:58:19] rapidtrades : just because ur poor u don't get a break from the law
[2016-08-05 00:58:31] habibi : u really wanna bancruptsy? u won't see ur stash for next years
[2016-08-05 00:59:18] rapidtrades : bankruptsy is a done deal my friend
[2016-08-05 01:00:05] habibi : rapidtrades: nope my old friend
[2016-08-05 01:00:17] rapidtrades : i also held 2 btc aside from my USD which will prolly get 65% haircut
[2016-08-05 01:00:28] lockhedge : rapidtrades: also thought that it would be a done deal but zane's statement indicate that the wanna resume business
[2016-08-05 01:00:28] rapidtrades : if the numbers floating around are correct
[2016-08-05 01:00:53] rapidtrades : lockhedge: they better not resume business after closing my shorts $30 above market
[2016-08-05 01:01:06] rapidtrades : there's no excuse for that
[2016-08-05 01:01:31] habibi : lockhedge: they wanna release bfx coins, with monthly or every 2 mth paid dividends from profits to users to payback loss over years
[2016-08-05 01:02:04] rapidtrades : it's only a matter of time until they get sued imo
[2016-08-05 01:02:20] rapidtrades : and they get sent a cease and desist letter
[2016-08-05 01:02:36] Mm bot : What would be the market reaction with socialised loss? People are going to be pissed right?
[2016-08-05 01:03:04] rapidtrades : well 63% if correct is MUCH worse then I expected
[2016-08-05 01:03:36] habibi : rapidtrades: its underestimated loss, will be higher, dont know how much higher tho
[2016-08-05 01:03:50] rapidtrades : means total coins on deposit were comparable to stamp size..so not sure how that is possible
[2016-08-05 01:04:10] Mm bot : So every BTC on BFX becomes 0.37BTC? @rapidtrades
[2016-08-05 01:04:36] rapidtrades : i don't know zane didn't want to confirm the numers or the plan for coins
[2016-08-05 01:05:26] rapidtrades : they only have ONE GUY doing the settling of balances
[2016-08-05 01:05:30] habibi : pgp said in private thats its rough estimation and will be higher
[2016-08-05 01:05:43] rapidtrades : zane hasn't confirmed
[2016-08-05 01:05:58] habibi : zane was talking a lot of bullshit past 3 days
[2016-08-05 01:06:02] habibi : and missinformation
[2016-08-05 01:06:13] habibi : don't trust 23 y guy
[2016-08-05 01:06:19] rapidtrades : https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4w7ny6/bitfinex_update_regarding_margin_funding/d64qo6p?context=3
[2016-08-05 01:06:27] Mm bot : rapidtrades: that guy can write code right?
[2016-08-05 01:06:49] rapidtrades : he's a PR person i think
[2016-08-05 01:07:13] habibi : rapidtrades: i am telling u, it will be higher. thats as well a reason why he is talking its not legitimate
[2016-08-05 01:07:52] lockhedge : seems like zane is not in the inner circle that makes decisions but he deserves respect for his relatively open comms work
[2016-08-05 01:08:05] rapidtrades : idk 63% is rather high according to my back of the envelope calculation....hard to believe finex only held 200,000 coins
[2016-08-05 01:08:11] rapidtrades : they were the largest USD site
[2016-08-05 01:08:41] rapidtrades : stamp held around 100k when they got hacked last year
[2016-08-05 01:08:55] rapidtrades : maybe margin factors into this somehow idk
[2016-08-05 01:10:35] habibi : u dont know, zane dont know, pgp is in position to know
[2016-08-05 01:13:56] rapidtrades : we don't know if that chat convo is legit
[2016-08-05 01:15:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETC7D`: Buy 290 @ 0.004161
[2016-08-05 01:15:57] habibi : https://twitter.com/MrChrisEllis/status/761354283501621248
[2016-08-05 01:18:39] rapidtrades : who's that guy
[2016-08-05 01:20:54] rapidtrades : some random on twitter, f*ck him and f*Ck u hajibi
[2016-08-05 01:20:54] habibi : have a good night rapidtrades
[2016-08-05 01:21:03] rapidtrades : yeah fu
[2016-08-05 01:23:04] rapidtrades : idiots over here claiming they would trust finex again https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/4w71i2/who_all_is_leaving_bitfinex/
[2016-08-05 01:25:13] zanza : well, people were stupid enough to trust Finex even after all their problems for the past year
[2016-08-05 01:25:15] rapidtrades : and now reddit is down...FU reddit
[2016-08-05 01:25:21] zanza : so I don't underestimate that
[2016-08-05 01:25:34] rapidtrades : zanza: WE THOUGHT THEY HAD A FECKING COLD ALLET
[2016-08-05 01:25:49] rapidtrades : so worst case they take a hit like stamp and continue operating
[2016-08-05 01:25:52] zanza : hue hue hue
[2016-08-05 01:25:53] rapidtrades : small hit
[2016-08-05 01:27:14] rapidtrades : every withdrawal email said if our 'hot wallet' is empty u may have to wait yadda yadda
[2016-08-05 01:27:25] rapidtrades : inferring that they had a cold wallet
[2016-08-05 01:27:42] rapidtrades : also 'hot wallet' in quotations marks
[2016-08-05 01:28:21] rapidtrades : in retrospect it makes sense why it was 'hot wallet'
[2016-08-05 01:28:41] zanza : their website constantly had bugs
[2016-08-05 01:28:46] zanza : wrong funding rates, server crash
[2016-08-05 01:28:53] zanza : unknown error, downtime, lost trades
[2016-08-05 01:28:59] rapidtrades : and the highest volume
[2016-08-05 01:29:13] zanza : because they accept Fiat and leverage
[2016-08-05 01:29:35] rapidtrades : u understand that there are no options right
[2016-08-05 01:29:41] zanza : you could just doing like a Bitstamp Fiat -> Crypto
[2016-08-05 01:29:46] rapidtrades : this i told u after the fact BS is not useful
[2016-08-05 01:29:48] zanza : then use BitMEX
[2016-08-05 01:30:06] rapidtrades : if u didn't use bitfinex before the hack u were overly cautious
[2016-08-05 01:30:22] zanza : i read bitcoinmarkets everyday
[2016-08-05 01:30:29] zanza : always complaints about Finex
[2016-08-05 01:30:41] rapidtrades : no shit same for any company
[2016-08-05 01:30:48] rapidtrades : go hide under the matteress u baby
[2016-08-05 01:31:02] zanza : the only complaints about BitMEx are their perpetual swap/funding rate
[2016-08-05 01:31:15] rapidtrades : ive seen all sorts of compliants
[2016-08-05 01:31:26] zanza : not about bugs here, just people upset or confused with the product
[2016-08-05 01:31:26] Rado : so now I have to make back 10.7 BTC in here
[2016-08-05 01:31:31] Rado : to cover my Bitfinex loss
[2016-08-05 01:31:32] zanza : go all in Rado
[2016-08-05 01:31:33] Rado : :(
[2016-08-05 01:31:41] lockhedge : this hack is not the first serious problem they have, they constantly showed that they were not able to run this business
[2016-08-05 01:31:46] Rado : fuckers
[2016-08-05 01:31:52] rapidtrades : like cavalier attitude of the owner , calling everyone children etc
[2016-08-05 01:32:31] Rado : I worked for two months to make 10 BTC
[2016-08-05 01:32:40] rapidtrades : yeah it sucks
[2016-08-05 01:32:44] Rado : I guess I need to shorten this to one month
[2016-08-05 01:32:54] rapidtrades : didn't u recently wire 10k to finex?
[2016-08-05 01:33:08] Rado : rapidtrades: can we hire a hacker to steal the rest of their BTC?
[2016-08-05 01:33:09] Rado : lol
[2016-08-05 01:33:16] Rado : I did rapidtrades
[2016-08-05 01:33:17] rapidtrades : :)
[2016-08-05 01:33:26] Rado : and I bought 16 BTC with that
[2016-08-05 01:33:33] Rado : I also had 1 BTC there
[2016-08-05 01:33:45] Rado : I had my bot there which had another 2 BTC
[2016-08-05 01:33:52] Rado : but the bot was in an ETH short position
[2016-08-05 01:34:24] rapidtrades : worst case u would get some of it back, so not all of it is lost
[2016-08-05 01:34:28] Rado : what a shitty luck
[2016-08-05 01:34:41] Rado : I guess
[2016-08-05 01:34:58] Rado : dinner
[2016-08-05 01:34:59] lockhedge : Rado: so the bot is not affected? wasn't the margin for your short in btc?
[2016-08-05 01:35:25] Rado : I was short ETH
[2016-08-05 01:35:33] Rado : so that is considered ETH position
[2016-08-05 01:35:55] Rado : I used BTC for that, but they are saying they will settle than back in BTC for me
[2016-08-05 01:35:57] rapidtrades : we don't know what will happen to our shorts but its inferred that we would be ok aside from the non-market price used for settleing
[2016-08-05 01:36:11] Rado : I like the price for ETH
[2016-08-05 01:36:25] Rado : ETHBTC: 0.01689900
[2016-08-05 01:36:34] Rado : my bot was short from 18.2
[2016-08-05 01:36:39] Rado : 0.0182
[2016-08-05 01:36:42] rapidtrades : guess we'll know tommorow
[2016-08-05 01:36:52] Rado : later
[2016-08-05 01:37:05] Rado : dinner
[2016-08-05 01:37:37] rapidtrades : i had a small $$$ on finex but most of my longs during the rally were taken there so it grew much larger
[2016-08-05 01:37:58] rapidtrades : went over my per site risk limit...
[2016-08-05 01:38:37] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 25 @ 0.01882
[2016-08-05 01:39:21] rapidtrades : that statement could be a float to see how much of a shitshow it causes
[2016-08-05 01:39:46] rapidtrades : finex may backtrack tomorrow and socialize everyone...u never know with these guys
[2016-08-05 01:39:52] rapidtrades : f*cking snakes
[2016-08-05 01:59:27] Rado : rapidtrades: what do you mean everyone?
[2016-08-05 01:59:39] Rado : I thought the 63% is everyone
[2016-08-05 02:01:05] Rado : everyone that had BTC
[2016-08-05 02:03:21] zanza : almost all the recent exchange hacks are inside jobs, I wuld be surprised if it WASN"T a Finex inside job
[2016-08-05 02:05:47] lockhedge : Rado: "we are leaning towards a socialized loss scenario among bitcoin balances
[2016-08-05 02:06:09] Rado : I know lockhedge
[2016-08-05 02:06:18] Rado : but I was asking what rapidtrades meant
[2016-08-05 02:06:50] Rado : zanza: It most definitely was
[2016-08-05 02:07:06] Rado : you don't hack a server and find what you need without having knowladge
[2016-08-05 02:07:24] BitMEX_Sam : Heard some rumors about compromise during the DC switch last mo
[2016-08-05 02:07:52] zanza : socialized loss model seems to clearly go against the CTFC "individual customer account" policy
[2016-08-05 02:17:23] ax : still havent seen a source on the 63%
[2016-08-05 02:17:31] ax : is there a reddit post by that zach guy?
[2016-08-05 03:15:22] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 1076 @ 0.01896
[2016-08-05 03:27:18] zanza : https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/4w2osg/daily_discussion_thursday_august_04_2016/d64on0k
[2016-08-05 04:09:12] CaptainDean : Anyine kese cannot acces his account ? Looks like the page is broken
[2016-08-05 04:09:25] CaptainDean : Anyone else**
[2016-08-05 04:10:02] CaptainDean : BitMEX_Sam: The account page crashes in my chrome
[2016-08-05 04:12:54] CaptainDean : Managed to load it up with the dev console up (F12)
[2016-08-05 04:22:56] Rado : CaptainDean: works for me in Chrome
[2016-08-05 04:22:59] Rado : on MAC
[2016-08-05 04:23:17] CaptainDean : copy that
[2016-08-05 05:54:32] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETC7D`: Buy 40 @ 0.004441
[2016-08-05 06:57:32] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETC7D`: Sell 6636 @ 0.004142
[2016-08-05 06:57:51] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETC7D`: Sell 488 @ 0.004104
[2016-08-05 07:06:18] subjective : Wtf rekt long short in one go? Someone shouldn't leaverage that too much
[2016-08-05 07:06:24] AZZEK : ETC margin calls
[2016-08-05 07:08:53] miramm1115 : 7-8% price movement in one hour is normal for ETC, not sure who's going full 10x leverage
[2016-08-05 07:09:37] rapidtrades : DON'T PANIC
[2016-08-05 07:10:01] rapidtrades : well at least my profits in sept won't be clawed much
[2016-08-05 07:10:19] rapidtrades : unless zaner decided to wake up and do some actual work early
[2016-08-05 07:11:04] rapidtrades : THEY HAVE ONE GUY WORKING ON CONSOLIDATING ALL BALANCES HIS NAME IS PHIL
[2016-08-05 07:12:46] miramm1115 : rapidtrades: 5 hours until rebalance, still enough time for the dump to $500
[2016-08-05 07:13:40] rapidtrades : we're not going anywhere until finex comes up
[2016-08-05 07:16:41] Mm bot : rapidtrades: do u think price will go up when BFX goes online?
[2016-08-05 07:17:05] rapidtrades : maybe
[2016-08-05 07:17:50] miramm1115 : I don't see how unless they say that all users will be compensated
[2016-08-05 07:19:07] bitbucks : why are etc positions being udmped so far under the index price
[2016-08-05 07:19:55] miramm1115 : bitbucks: because everyone is selling, look at recent trades
[2016-08-05 07:20:35] miramm1115 : it's a self-amplifying cycle
[2016-08-05 07:31:07] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETC7D`: Sell 170 @ 0.004037
[2016-08-05 07:31:07] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETC7D`: Sell 27210 @ 0.004036 **MEGA-REKT** :boom:
[2016-08-05 07:32:05] Spofas : ooooo megarekt
[2016-08-05 07:33:06] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETC7D`: Sell 500 @ 0.003998
[2016-08-05 07:45:35] meh : ltc pretty senseless here lol
[2016-08-05 07:47:00] elmorte : Volume's thru the floor
[2016-08-05 07:48:49] habibi : ltc usd pair would be tradeable, ltc/btc is pretty not :(
[2016-08-05 07:51:24] TA : any mods around?
[2016-08-05 07:52:09] TA : why is the etc price here 4040 whereas the market price for etc on polonium is 4340 ?
[2016-08-05 07:52:41] habibi : ta buy cheap then :)
[2016-08-05 07:53:50] TA : lol..but similarly the price goes down to a lower level if it goes down a bit on polo
[2016-08-05 07:54:15] TA : which is not good for my mental health..
[2016-08-05 07:54:35] habibi : don't trade then, sometimes weird action happens here
[2016-08-05 07:55:10] TA : lol..shouldnt the values be similar as bitmex states it takes polo price into account
[2016-08-05 07:55:35] habibi : u tell me :)
[2016-08-05 07:56:05] TA : bitmex is cheating traders then
[2016-08-05 07:56:41] habibi : yea that's the first though for many people, but its not true. this is how this system works
[2016-08-05 07:57:06] TA : okay..thats why i wanted to talk to the mods first
[2016-08-05 07:57:13] TA : to ask them what the issue is with the price
[2016-08-05 07:57:38] habibi : read about mark price
[2016-08-05 07:57:40] cenkzu : I have no idea, what it is, but I closed my short positions
[2016-08-05 07:57:42] cenkzu : ha ha
[2016-08-05 07:58:43] BitMEX_Arthur : TA: https://www.bitmex.com/app/fairPriceMarking
[2016-08-05 07:58:45] BitMEX_Arthur : Please read that
[2016-08-05 07:59:00] BitMEX_Arthur : there is no issue with the price, a futures contract trades at a different price than the spot price up until settlement
[2016-08-05 07:59:52] TA : okay thanks :)
[2016-08-05 08:01:58] AZZEK : BitMEX_Arthur: is settlement based on polo price or spot price here?
[2016-08-05 08:02:18] BitMEX_Arthur : AZZEK: Polo price
[2016-08-05 08:05:40] AZZEK : is it the exact polo price at the time of settlement or some derivative of it?
[2016-08-05 08:05:43] AZZEK : ty
[2016-08-05 08:06:07] cenkzu : it is some kind of average of last half hour, if im not mistaken
[2016-08-05 08:06:34] AZZEK : cenkzu: but does the price here have anything to do with the settlement price in any way?
[2016-08-05 08:08:06] Skitrx : is noone buying ETC due to contract settlement?
[2016-08-05 08:08:06] cenkzu : I don't know. It probably does a little bit. Bitmex makes sure that gains of some people+fees are the same as losses of other people. so there is some calculation, but Im really not an expert..
[2016-08-05 08:08:37] cenkzu : I bought and I'm now hoping everything will be ok :D
[2016-08-05 08:09:04] AZZEK : cenkzu: if it settles at polo price then ETC contracts are at a major discount
[2016-08-05 08:09:28] AZZEK : im just wondering why the price isnt reflecting that
[2016-08-05 08:09:31] cenkzu : AZZEK: yes, I agree with that.Thats why I closed my shorts that I made when price was higher than polo price
[2016-08-05 08:09:41] cenkzu : maybe just bot crashed
[2016-08-05 08:09:51] cenkzu : and owner is not around to check what happened
[2016-08-05 08:10:01] cenkzu : I dont know
[2016-08-05 08:10:02] cenkzu : :)
[2016-08-05 08:12:09] cenkzu : I only trade here for a week
[2016-08-05 08:15:12] BitMEX_Arthur : There are obviously some very bearish traders. ETC7D expires in under 4 hours. Then a new ETC7D contract will be listed.
[2016-08-05 08:21:41] AZZEK : I guess this is probabvly the only price you can short ETC
[2016-08-05 08:22:00] AZZEK : lol
[2016-08-05 08:22:32] AZZEK : well see what happens at settlement time. maybe this is just ETC whales hedging short
[2016-08-05 08:22:57] AZZEK : the only place*
[2016-08-05 08:23:00] cenkzu : yeah. good luck with settlement :D
[2016-08-05 08:34:02] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETC7D`: Buy 290 @ 0.004228
[2016-08-05 08:41:31] zanza : settlement is just how unrealized profit is tracked for I think
[2016-08-05 08:41:41] zanza : (on perpetuals_
[2016-08-05 09:15:26] sleger : We are still working out the details so nothing is set in stone, however we are leaning towards a socialized loss scenario among bitcoin balances and active loans to BTCUSD positions.
[2016-08-05 09:16:12] BitMEX_Arthur : sleger: What's your theory on what is going on over there
[2016-08-05 09:16:51] habibi : sleger: what asset was ur main at the time of hack? btc?
[2016-08-05 09:19:30] wurstgelee : BitMEX_Arthur: figuring out how to sell a chemo therapy of a haircut probably
[2016-08-05 09:28:09] Mangalica : yeah
[2016-08-05 09:28:57] Mangalica : Rumor is around 60-70% "haircut" which is more of a scalping really
[2016-08-05 09:31:25] zanza : this Bitfinex situation is a disaster
[2016-08-05 09:32:37] rapidtrades : zanza: are u sure? i couldn't tell from the price crashing 25%
[2016-08-05 09:32:52] zanza : https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4w9ezr/bitfinex_says_it_will_spread_losses_among_users/
[2016-08-05 09:34:26] Skitrx : BitMEX_Arthur: if you have an open position on ETC7D when it settles will it be automatically closed at market?
[2016-08-05 09:35:25] rapidtrades : zanza: link is crap and doesn't tell us anything new
[2016-08-05 09:38:41] AZZEK : Skitrx: apparently it closes at polo price
[2016-08-05 09:38:57] AZZEK : but the current price doesnt reflect that even though settlement is in 2 hours
[2016-08-05 09:42:36] rapidtrades : the stolen coins still haven't moved...i wonder what's his plan
[2016-08-05 09:42:48] rapidtrades : he can't sell em on any major xchange
[2016-08-05 09:44:55] zanza : they usually use like a 2 hour time weighted average AZZEK
[2016-08-05 09:44:58] BitMEX_Arthur : Go yolo long, and return the coins after sweating bfx out a bit more
[2016-08-05 09:45:22] zanza : return the coins?!?!
[2016-08-05 09:45:23] BitMEX_Arthur : the guy probably made a killing shorting the market before the hack, he has to know fencing these coins will be a PITA
[2016-08-05 09:45:34] zanza : true
[2016-08-05 09:47:10] BitMEX_Arthur : Maybe he really has it out for bfx
[2016-08-05 09:47:47] zanza : if it was a hacker, they were the biggest target
[2016-08-05 09:47:47] miramm1115 : he can send all coins to 1FinexSucks48349c422Urnf312cu2 :-)
[2016-08-05 09:48:03] BitMEX_Arthur : lol
[2016-08-05 09:48:11] rapidtrades : if the guy shorted he made a killing like i made a killing....peanuts
[2016-08-05 09:48:29] rapidtrades : i shorted right after news broke around 600
[2016-08-05 09:48:39] zanza : the thing is, to make money shorting, he had to have money to start with (non hacked money)
[2016-08-05 09:48:58] rapidtrades : also its quite likely he didn't exit at the 460 bottom
[2016-08-05 09:49:03] BitMEX_Arthur : Or he sold the info to others in return for cash to a clean address
[2016-08-05 09:49:04] rapidtrades : that reversal was too fast
[2016-08-05 09:49:25] BitMEX_Arthur : who then started shorting the market
[2016-08-05 09:49:26] zanza : true, there is a lot of ways he could have played it
[2016-08-05 09:49:41] BitMEX_Arthur : And he did little hacks before the big one to prove he could do it
[2016-08-05 09:49:43] rapidtrades : as zanza says...to make anything near 70 mil u have to have like few mil investment first
[2016-08-05 09:49:48] BitMEX_Arthur : to whoever he had to prove it to
[2016-08-05 09:50:06] BitMEX_Arthur : yeah but that 70mm in coins is untradable
[2016-08-05 09:50:09] rapidtrades : u can bet whoever shorted with millions is being investigated right now
[2016-08-05 09:50:13] BitMEX_Arthur : maybe he could do a few bucks on lbc
[2016-08-05 09:50:19] BitMEX_Arthur : investigated by who?
[2016-08-05 09:50:27] rapidtrades : exchanges
[2016-08-05 09:50:40] zanza : it could have been spread over many accounts
[2016-08-05 09:51:02] zanza : I wonder if the price dip at 650 was shorters
[2016-08-05 09:51:14] zanza : remember it was 650 forever, then dropped to 605
[2016-08-05 09:51:15] rapidtrades : he's not gonna return them...that's just gonna raise more flags
[2016-08-05 09:51:30] zanza : I wonder if that was setup for hacker shorts
[2016-08-05 09:52:15] rapidtrades : finex outtage last month was likely his trial hack
[2016-08-05 09:52:33] zanza : the vast majority of exchange hacks are inside jobs tho
[2016-08-05 09:52:38] rapidtrades : finex didn't patch it...not surprising given their incompetence
[2016-08-05 09:53:02] rapidtrades : zanza: name one aside from mtgox
[2016-08-05 09:53:09] zanza : srsluy
[2016-08-05 09:53:14] zanza : crypsty
[2016-08-05 09:53:20] rapidtrades : proofs?
[2016-08-05 09:53:22] zanza : Bitcoinica
[2016-08-05 09:53:28] zanza : shapeshift
[2016-08-05 09:53:36] rapidtrades : .
[2016-08-05 09:53:41] rapidtrades : proofs?
[2016-08-05 09:54:46] zanza : Moolah
[2016-08-05 09:54:53] zanza : you must be out of touch with bitcoin news :)
[2016-08-05 09:55:09] rapidtrades : prooofs?
[2016-08-05 09:55:14] habibi : rapidtrades: its prooven actually on these cases
[2016-08-05 09:55:24] rapidtrades : link me bitch
[2016-08-05 09:55:36] zanza : http://siliconangle.com/blog/2015/02/23/mintpal-scammer-ryan-kennedy-arrested-in-u-k-over-theft-of-3700-bitcoins/
[2016-08-05 09:56:03] rapidtrades : yeah i knew about that guy...so that's 2
[2016-08-05 09:56:12] rapidtrades : of out 5-6 u named
[2016-08-05 09:56:21] zanza : I was trying to think of a way to setup decentralized leveraged exchange
[2016-08-05 09:56:33] zanza : seems complicated, but would be really worth it in the end
[2016-08-05 09:56:43] jose : some news from ryan kennedy http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3724522/Vicious-sex-fiend-emotionally-controlled-three-women-raped-jailed-11-years.html
[2016-08-05 09:56:53] zanza : 11 years?!
[2016-08-05 09:57:16] jose : i did not verified sources though
[2016-08-05 09:58:51] zanza : that jail sentence is for rape only, nothing related to Bitcoin/Moolah theft, Karma working in strange ways ?
[2016-08-05 09:59:11] rapidtrades : :)
[2016-08-05 09:59:52] zanza : nobody really disputes the accuracy of trades on BitMEX system, meaning the rules are setup, and no one complains about glitch in the system
[2016-08-05 09:59:56] Tetsuo : @ rabidtranny, told ya about finex weeks ago.lel. I hope you withdrew
[2016-08-05 10:00:10] zanza : where I am going, what if deposits were in 2 of 2 or 2 of 3 multisig
[2016-08-05 10:00:14] jose : yep sometimes I question how information flows, this guy is clearly a con artist but everyone seems to discover it
[2016-08-05 10:00:23] rapidtrades : that sentence is the biggest bull ive heard but it couldn't have happened to a better person
[2016-08-05 10:00:24] jose : like google doesnt exist
[2016-08-05 10:00:25] zanza : Exchange has 1, customer has 1
[2016-08-05 10:00:44] rapidtrades : Sex fiend Ryan Kennedy, 29, raped three women over a seven-year period <<<<lol
[2016-08-05 10:01:03] rapidtrades : how does one raped smone over 7 years without chaining them in the basement
[2016-08-05 10:01:23] zanza : wrong area for discussion about that
[2016-08-05 10:01:54] zanza : trying to think to prevent counterparty risk on an exchange
[2016-08-05 10:02:28] zanza : seems like the "BitGo" method seems to be the best, some sort of 3rd party however the implementation was awful in this case
[2016-08-05 10:02:52] rapidtrades : plz no
[2016-08-05 10:02:59] zanza : no curcuit breaker on 120k BTC
[2016-08-05 10:03:00] rapidtrades : we know what works
[2016-08-05 10:03:04] rapidtrades : cold f*cking storage
[2016-08-05 10:03:22] zanza : cold storage is still stealable
[2016-08-05 10:03:32] zanza : especially to inside job.
[2016-08-05 10:04:21] jose : they have the same problem than theDAO, no circuit breaker when you detect abnormal behaviour, it should trigger an alert and ask a human to look at the issue
[2016-08-05 10:04:57] Tetsuo : Finex is as innocent as Karpeles.
[2016-08-05 10:05:07] rapidtrades : shut up tetsuo
[2016-08-05 10:05:17] Tetsuo : No one will get anything back.
[2016-08-05 10:05:21] rapidtrades : noone likes u here
[2016-08-05 10:05:33] Tetsuo : rapidtrades: u suck
[2016-08-05 10:05:34] zanza : yeah having an exchange get "hacked" its the exception that it isn't inside job
[2016-08-05 10:05:56] zanza : sleger: did you take bad hit on finex?
[2016-08-05 10:06:05] rapidtrades : Tetsuo: ur mom sucks much better trust me
[2016-08-05 10:07:00] rapidtrades : u can make u decentralized exchange but i aint trusting anybody
[2016-08-05 10:09:17] rapidtrades : does this load for anyone https://bitvc.com/
[2016-08-05 10:09:49] zanza : well, it doesn't have to be a decentralized exchange, but having the funding be setup somehow in multisig
[2016-08-05 10:10:09] elmorte : No, but https://www.bitvc.com/ does
[2016-08-05 10:10:10] zanza : its complicated , since you would need 3 keys
[2016-08-05 10:11:10] rapidtrades : elmorte: urs timed out too
[2016-08-05 10:11:49] elmorte : Then it's you, coz I'm looking at a Chinese piggy bank
[2016-08-05 10:12:09] rapidtrades : cool
[2016-08-05 10:12:14] BitMEX_Wally : I think coinpit has some multisig wallet solution where the funds for an open order are moved from the users' private wallet to an exchange multisig wallet. I'm still waiting for them to release a white paper explaining it
[2016-08-05 10:12:46] elmorte : Oh...I got dragged into a OneCoin presentation yesterday...
[2016-08-05 10:13:17] elmorte : At least it started with a few shots of rakija
[2016-08-05 10:14:35] rapidtrades : :)
[2016-08-05 10:14:43] rapidtrades : did u invest?
[2016-08-05 10:14:51] Mangalica : ofc he did
[2016-08-05 10:14:56] rapidtrades : isn't that a marketing trick?
[2016-08-05 10:15:08] rapidtrades : give away smth for free then they feel like they owe u :)
[2016-08-05 10:15:18] rapidtrades : works with chicks
[2016-08-05 10:15:44] elmorte : Nah, rakija is pretty much a staple
[2016-08-05 10:15:54] Mangalica : he immediately bought an ultimate platinum infinity trader gold package after a shot for a measly few dozen grand
[2016-08-05 10:15:55] elmorte : I told them I'll have a look at it :)
[2016-08-05 10:16:36] elmorte : They kept insisting on how it was a closed system, cannot be manipulated, only a single exchange....and I was thinking you're so not selling it.
[2016-08-05 10:16:41] elmorte : Anyway, classing Ponzi
[2016-08-05 10:16:49] elmorte : classic even
[2016-08-05 10:17:06] elmorte : Just glad that the friend who dragged me had me there so he doesn't waste his money
[2016-08-05 10:17:32] Mangalica : maybe there was some oxycontin mixed in too
[2016-08-05 10:17:36] elmorte : ultimate platinum infinity trader gold PLUS
[2016-08-05 10:17:44] elmorte : I wish it did, but I felt nothing :(
[2016-08-05 10:18:28] rapidtrades : this finex situation is wrecking my nerves
[2016-08-05 10:18:39] elmorte : The presenter opened his dashboard, and my friend was like "does your bitcoin dashboard look like that too?"
[2016-08-05 10:18:40] rapidtrades : more then usual i mean
[2016-08-05 10:18:46] sleger : just assume you lost 65% @rapidtrades
[2016-08-05 10:18:50] Mangalica : lol elmorte
[2016-08-05 10:18:55] rapidtrades : sleger: NO FU I WONT
[2016-08-05 10:19:05] elmorte : Presenter also said OneCoin are discussing about buying Bitcoin...
[2016-08-05 10:19:13] elmorte : as in buying the whole Bitcoin
[2016-08-05 10:19:13] rapidtrades : i have it discounted by 50% right now
[2016-08-05 10:19:29] Mangalica : corporate merger with BTC
[2016-08-05 10:19:30] sleger : see, getting there
[2016-08-05 10:19:34] rapidtrades : :(
[2016-08-05 10:19:56] rapidtrades : i was short into the hack tho...but my 2 btc in exchange wallet are prolly toast
[2016-08-05 10:19:56] Mangalica : people always act surprised when i tell them bitcoin as such is not a company and there is nothing of the sort behind it
[2016-08-05 10:20:00] elmorte : I had 1.5BTC on finex...everything else was in ETH. cnts...
[2016-08-05 10:20:13] Mangalica : i had a TON of BTC on finex
[2016-08-05 10:20:25] elmorte : Yeah, it's hard to explain....you tell them it's like someone buying the Dollar...but even the Dollar has a central bank
[2016-08-05 10:20:31] rapidtrades : i think i used USD to short but not sure....
[2016-08-05 10:20:32] Mangalica : i was roughly half cash and half BTC for most of the year, then decided to buy some the day of the hack
[2016-08-05 10:20:38] sleger : i do agree that only btc holders and usd loaners should be impacted though
[2016-08-05 10:20:39] Mangalica : rip me
[2016-08-05 10:21:18] rapidtrades : in theory, even if i used BTC to short....I wouldn't be impacted right? cos im net short now?
[2016-08-05 10:21:28] rapidtrades : was net short*
[2016-08-05 10:21:39] sleger : rapidtrades: you had btc in finex, btc are easy to steal, so yes you should be impacted
[2016-08-05 10:21:51] Mangalica : yeah i was short ETC the moment they went down, no idea how that'll be accounted for
[2016-08-05 10:22:11] rapidtrades : cos they're saying ppl that were long on leverage lost several times over their deposits
[2016-08-05 10:22:20] sleger : Mangalica: they already explained that, your position will be closed at the price at the time they went down
[2016-08-05 10:22:31] Mangalica : oh yes, but what about the haircut
[2016-08-05 10:22:36] Mangalica : for that part
[2016-08-05 10:22:39] rapidtrades : becos platform registers them as long 60 btc for example...if they used 20 btc to long
[2016-08-05 10:22:43] sleger : wait, but most likely 65%
[2016-08-05 10:22:49] Mangalica : technically i gave someone BTC to sell their ETC
[2016-08-05 10:23:00] Mangalica : nitpicking but still
[2016-08-05 10:23:17] rapidtrades : guess we'll see what's left in few hrs
[2016-08-05 10:23:21] Mangalica : would have been helpful to announce that ALL margin positions would be closed, not just the "affected" ones
[2016-08-05 10:23:30] rapidtrades : all are closed
[2016-08-05 10:23:31] sleger : i think they did say that
[2016-08-05 10:23:33] Mangalica : then i wouldn't have tried to hedge here only to lose more coins
[2016-08-05 10:23:40] sleger : everything will be closed
[2016-08-05 10:23:50] rapidtrades : they said all will be closed at 604
[2016-08-05 10:23:50] Mangalica : the days after it wasn't clear that everything would be settled
[2016-08-05 10:24:03] sleger : yes, but since they clarified that
[2016-08-05 10:24:03] rapidtrades : i agree that sucked but u couldn't short anyway
[2016-08-05 10:24:10] rapidtrades : we insta crashed $50
[2016-08-05 10:24:57] rapidtrades : best case for me is loss around 1.5k after taking into account closed shorts at unfavorable prices and lost BTC
[2016-08-05 10:25:38] rapidtrades : worst case is several times that unfortunately
[2016-08-05 10:26:51] sleger : someone who had $ sitting on the exchange and not loaned out should not lose anything on this part
[2016-08-05 10:27:07] cenkzu : best case scenario I lose around 5k$ , worst I lose 15500$
[2016-08-05 10:27:43] rapidtrades : i don't even wanna ask sleger how much is at stake...
[2016-08-05 10:28:11] elmorte : Are we counting losses from going long here?
[2016-08-05 10:28:20] cenkzu : I sent 11 bitcoins to them after they already knew they were hacked but didn't notify us yet
[2016-08-05 10:28:33] Skitrx : I have a pending PNL of 0.419128 XBT in 2 hours but this isn't reflected in my wallet balance, is this going to be added on?
[2016-08-05 10:28:45] rapidtrades : yes it will
[2016-08-05 10:28:52] elmorte : Skitrx: Yes, but it can change by then
[2016-08-05 10:29:02] Skitrx : thanks guys
[2016-08-05 10:29:55] rapidtrades : if the haircut 65% is real then that's a major negative for BTC price
[2016-08-05 10:30:41] cenkzu : it could be much higher than 65%
[2016-08-05 10:31:01] cenkzu : 65% is just random figure someone made up
[2016-08-05 10:31:05] rapidtrades : do u guys think they will open today?
[2016-08-05 10:32:30] Tetsuo : They won't open ever again.
[2016-08-05 10:32:52] Tetsuo : All hope is lost. Everyone will die!
[2016-08-05 10:34:06] Skitrx : all positions will be closed at BTCUSD: 604.06000000
[2016-08-05 10:34:15] Skitrx : i wonder what impact this will have on the market if they resume trading
[2016-08-05 10:34:44] rapidtrades : if they were resuming they wouldn't do a 'view only' site
[2016-08-05 10:35:17] Skitrx : "Note that initially trading, deposits, withdrawals, and other core site functionality will be disabled."
[2016-08-05 10:35:33] Skitrx : so you can basically check your account
[2016-08-05 10:35:33] Skitrx : lol
[2016-08-05 10:35:37] rapidtrades : in theory u could lose 100%
[2016-08-05 10:35:57] rapidtrades : say ur unverified and tons of ppl withdraw before u....then a lawsuit comes in and ur money stuck
[2016-08-05 10:36:11] rapidtrades : and ur money ends up being shared
[2016-08-05 10:36:23] Skitrx : they aren't allowing withdraws, so who knows what they will do
[2016-08-05 10:36:30] Tetsuo : BTC down to 80$
[2016-08-05 10:37:56] Tetsuo : Gox allowed Login only to
[2016-08-05 10:38:02] Tetsuo : O
[2016-08-05 10:38:09] jesperf : Tetsuo: then you'd better short as hard as you can
[2016-08-05 10:38:19] jesperf : I have some really expensive bitcoins for you to short!
[2016-08-05 10:42:31] rapidtrades : zane still sleeping
[2016-08-05 10:45:03] jesperf : must be hard to sleep in his position
[2016-08-05 10:45:47] santacruz : Why value of my position is always changing? Once I entered into position it must be static, isn't it?
[2016-08-05 10:46:28] rapidtrades : no
[2016-08-05 10:46:51] rapidtrades : ur position value is static in USD terms on the swap
[2016-08-05 10:46:53] jesperf : santacruz: you're buying contracts, not actual cryptocurrency here
[2016-08-05 10:47:22] rapidtrades : ignore this comment ^
[2016-08-05 10:49:07] santacruz : take a look: https://goo.gl/lOHi8L
[2016-08-05 10:49:45] rapidtrades : rapidtrades: ur position value is static in USD terms on the swap
[2016-08-05 10:49:47] santacruz : according to calculator I should be short 10.19 BTC (which I was)
[2016-08-05 10:49:53] rapidtrades : oh ffs
[2016-08-05 10:50:05] rapidtrades : rapidtrades: ur position value is static in USD terms on the swap
[2016-08-05 10:52:13] santacruz : does not make sense... I was short more when BTC price was higher
[2016-08-05 10:52:24] rapidtrades : ur short the same amount
[2016-08-05 10:52:30] rapidtrades : santacruz: swap?
[2016-08-05 10:52:37] santacruz : No
[2016-08-05 10:52:43] santacruz : XBTU16
[2016-08-05 10:52:48] rapidtrades : aaah
[2016-08-05 10:52:56] rapidtrades : that's a quanto
[2016-08-05 10:53:18] rapidtrades : rapidtrades: ur position value is static in BTC terms on the quanto
[2016-08-05 10:53:36] santacruz : that's what I expect - but it's changing
[2016-08-05 10:53:47] santacruz : see picture https://goo.gl/lOHi8L
[2016-08-05 10:53:59] santacruz : when I entered - it was 10.19
[2016-08-05 10:54:06] santacruz : now it's 8.58
[2016-08-05 10:54:24] rapidtrades : yeah that's normal
[2016-08-05 10:54:43] santacruz : it's not :)
[2016-08-05 10:54:52] santacruz : I'm missing something
[2016-08-05 10:54:53] rapidtrades : it's a quanto not linear
[2016-08-05 10:55:45] rapidtrades : playing around with the calc with explain it better then i can
[2016-08-05 10:56:02] rapidtrades : simply..PnL is done in BTC terms here
[2016-08-05 10:56:10] sleger : cant be worse that wrong explanations indeed
[2016-08-05 10:56:36] rapidtrades : so if we fall or rise $100 u win/lose same amount of BTC
[2016-08-05 10:56:44] santacruz : I will talk to support.. thnx
[2016-08-05 10:56:51] rapidtrades : but cos we're now 100 higher/lower that BTC is worst more/less
[2016-08-05 10:57:27] Skitrx : rollover on btc charts
[2016-08-05 10:57:35] rapidtrades : i did a terrible job explaining that lol
[2016-08-05 10:57:40] Skitrx : i wonder where support is