This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

<<  >>  English  中文  Русский  한국어  日本語  Español  Français 
[2015-08-24 21:00:47] quantuml : ok
[2015-08-24 21:01:13] BitMEX_Arthur : quantuml: What specifically do you want to know?
[2015-08-24 21:38:12] gustavo7 : this meltdown is unreal
[2015-08-24 21:38:56] BitMEX_Sam : It's really too bad
[2015-08-24 21:42:23] gustavo7 : Sam: where/do you hedge your earnings from fees? here too?
[2015-08-24 21:42:59] BitMEX_Arthur : gustavo7: We are not at liberty to discuss our corporate treasury policy
[2015-08-24 21:43:15] gustavo7 : xD
[2015-08-24 21:57:33] BitMEX_Arthur : Here it cums
[2015-08-24 22:01:27] gustavo7 : $200 danger zone
[2015-08-24 22:03:39] gustavo7 : http://aretheyawake.in/China
[2015-08-24 22:08:55] ksinvest : okcoin now slightly above US based exchanges, interesting dumps: https://cryptowat.ch/okcoin/btcusd/1min
[2015-08-24 22:09:46] gustavo7 : okcoin
[2015-08-24 22:09:51] gustavo7 : lol u rascals
[2015-08-24 22:10:07] ksinvest : ups
[2015-08-24 22:13:47] BitMEX_Arthur : haha
[2015-08-24 22:13:50] BitMEX_Arthur : glad you finally noticed
[2015-08-24 22:14:07] BitMEX_Arthur : another genius substation by Sam
[2015-08-24 22:15:15] BitMEX_Wally : Shame it breaks the URL though
[2015-08-24 22:16:34] cengel : if okcoin is woodchipper than bitmex Double Penetration at Expiration is a metalchipper
[2015-08-24 22:22:54] ksinvest : what? i thought i have been owned, shut down the power
[2015-08-24 22:22:59] ksinvest : what? i thought i have been owned, shut down the power
[2015-08-24 22:24:26] cengel : what
[2015-08-24 22:26:17] krtek.net : Cold coin in new blocks :)
[2015-08-24 22:26:19] krtek.net : this will be epic
[2015-08-24 22:27:36] BitMEX_Sam : ksinvest: You okay there
[2015-08-24 22:31:02] BitMEX_Sam : krtek.net: Please check your referral status
[2015-08-24 22:31:30] BitMEX_Sam : Very sorry for the confusion - there was a bug but thankfully we could reproduce the history from logs. I've credited all missing referrals
[2015-08-24 22:33:13] krtek.net : BitMEX_Sam: Any number bigger than 0 is good for me (that means, I have no way to check if the fix is complete or what ratio was fixed). So thank you, good job again.
[2015-08-24 22:33:43] BitMEX_Sam : Thankfully, the brain damage was only temporary and incomplete :)
[2015-08-24 22:34:25] krtek.net : For other: you probably need to reload the site to see the update numbers.
[2015-08-24 22:34:43] krtek.net : I needed to.
[2015-08-24 22:35:36] krtek.net : Bah. My English is like from the chinese bazaar today, Sorry for that :)
[2015-08-24 22:37:36] ksinvest : BitMEX_Sam: i nearly put my complete hardware in my microwave, thx for the adrenalin rush though :) #woodchipper
[2015-08-24 22:37:56] BitMEX_Sam : ksinvest: From the text substitution?
[2015-08-24 22:40:24] ksinvest : BitMEX_Sam: i thought that there was an exploit on my machine, didn't think that the text substitution was server side...
[2015-08-24 22:40:35] BitMEX_Sam : :) Sorry for the scare
[2015-08-24 22:40:43] BitMEX_Sam : It's the same as the one we use for fuck
[2015-08-24 22:40:51] BitMEX_Sam : If you can figure out what that word originally was...
[2015-08-24 22:43:02] ksinvest : :) i will try
[2015-08-24 23:01:10] SnackyCoins : oh wow, nice open position overlay on the tv chart
[2015-08-24 23:01:13] SnackyCoins : love it
[2015-08-24 23:01:26] SnackyCoins : new animations on the orderbook too
[2015-08-24 23:16:35] gustavo7 : 1k walls at huobi
[2015-08-25 00:07:27] j8 : each contract is worth $-0 of Bitcoin? @BitMEX_Sam
[2015-08-25 00:14:51] BitMEX_Wally : j8: Which contract are you seeing that on?
[2015-08-25 00:20:12] j8 : `XBT` series
[2015-08-25 00:22:38] BitMEX_Wally : For `XBTQ15` I see `Each contract is worth 0.00001 XBT per $1 price.`
[2015-08-25 00:22:40] krtek.net : have that too... probably just a rounding problem in display?
[2015-08-25 00:23:01] krtek.net : -0 USD per contract (Currently 0.0021 XBT per contract)
[2015-08-25 00:23:28] krtek.net : XBT7D is a XBT/USD inverse futures contract settling every Friday on the .XBT2H Index. Each contract is worth $-0 of Bitcoin.
[2015-08-25 00:23:55] BitMEX_Arthur : Thanks guys we are seeing it as well, and will fix it
[2015-08-25 00:24:34] krtek.net : ETH7D is a ETH/XBT inverse futures contract settling every Friday on the .ETHXBT2H Index. Each contract is worth $-1 of Bitcoin.
[2015-08-25 00:24:38] krtek.net : lel :))
[2015-08-25 00:45:47] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, fixing in a sec
[2015-08-25 00:55:22] j8 : well, it's been fun.
[2015-08-25 00:56:13] SnackyCoins : GG
[2015-08-25 00:56:20] j8 : thanks a lot gavin.
[2015-08-25 01:01:49] krtek.net : Mandatory "bitbulls be like..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ
[2015-08-25 01:04:59] krtek.net : 73 % adjustment on XBTQ15? ilshibamf :D
[2015-08-25 01:05:48] BitMEX_Wally : Massive long position got REKT
[2015-08-25 01:06:00] BitMEX_Wally : You can trade `XBT7D` which is the same
[2015-08-25 01:07:55] krtek.net : I'm not trading anything that wild before being prepared to stay awake for 50 hours straight :) So it's out of the market for me now :)
[2015-08-25 01:08:14] krtek.net : well... except for a tiny short, just for good measure :)
[2015-08-25 01:09:27] d3l33t : so are the open orders changing so rapidly due to bots?
[2015-08-25 01:11:44] krtek.net : Huh, I understand it correctly that liquidation is not issuing a market order but a limit one? That is so cool. (I understand, that this has drawbacks, but I have never seen it implemented on futures anywhere)
[2015-08-25 01:12:04] j8 : okcoin does it too.
[2015-08-25 01:12:19] krtek.net : never heard about that one either :)
[2015-08-25 01:14:23] cryptojoe : hey guys where is the info on which contracts have the highest volume
[2015-08-25 01:15:20] j8 : the table at the bottom on advanced view, if you expand it
[2015-08-25 01:15:29] j8 : short answer is `XBTU15`
[2015-08-25 01:18:01] cryptojoe : thanks
[2015-08-25 01:24:35] cryptojoe : If buy some contracts today and then sell that same amount of contracts an hour later then i've closed my position? Is that right?
[2015-08-25 01:24:48] j8 : yep
[2015-08-25 01:27:29] cryptojoe : coool.
[2015-08-25 01:31:24] BitMEX_Sam : At some point we'll add a `Close Position` button but we're philosophically opposed to market orders
[2015-08-25 01:33:11] cryptojoe : oh god market orders are insane. they kill noobs who don't realize you can limit out of a position
[2015-08-25 01:33:24] ksinvest : this is the time of <code>XBU24H</code> 65.9499 XBT record turnover, crisis save market structure, no DPE, perfekt for short term shorts :)
[2015-08-25 01:34:01] ksinvest : we would only need more liquidity (competition) there...
[2015-08-25 01:35:03] j8 : with the mark price method, market orders are really only dangerous to yourself though, right?
[2015-08-25 01:35:11] ksinvest : *perfect...
[2015-08-25 01:37:56] ksinvest : j8: it's indeed not the best day, but a lot of volume also means you earn the spread very often as mm, in the long run it's mostly random and you earn the spread, i'm still +30%
[2015-08-25 01:38:19] BitMEX_Arthur : Text book market making and mean reversion
[2015-08-25 01:38:21] BitMEX_Sam : Its been a good day for lots of exchanges, big volume
[2015-08-25 01:40:05] j8 : another glitch in the description for `XBT7D`
[2015-08-25 01:40:14] j8 : XBT7D is a XBT/USD quanto futures contract settling 2000-01-08T00:00:00.000Z
[2015-08-25 01:40:20] BitMEX_Sam : Right
[2015-08-25 01:40:22] BitMEX_Sam : thx
[2015-08-25 01:40:32] j8 : np
[2015-08-25 01:40:37] BitMEX_Sam : Did some reworking of how the tables are generated from the data. Missed a few spots. Sorry about that guys
[2015-08-25 01:40:57] ksinvest : if you try to intervene in high volatile situations, you most likely make a psychological biased decision, better let your bot decide and trust in the market structure / margin ...
[2015-08-25 01:41:28] ksinvest : as market maker this means changing your decision in the worst time
[2015-08-25 01:41:40] ksinvest : changing your strategy
[2015-08-25 01:41:47] j8 : yea, gotta trust the algo
[2015-08-25 01:44:07] ksinvest : there is not much algo, it's non-predictive market making = simple math, physics and market structure. it's already worth a lot if you never get mislead by yourself or anyone else ;)
[2015-08-25 01:44:39] j8 : i guess i take a broad definition of algo
[2015-08-25 01:45:04] krtek.net : Yep. the less I touch my mm bots, the better they are.... But I think this would hold even out of the mm area...
[2015-08-25 01:45:29] ksinvest : j8: right, sorry for *klugscheissen* (german)
[2015-08-25 01:46:56] ksinvest : (no right translation for this, don't google)
[2015-08-25 01:47:02] j8 : already did :)
[2015-08-25 01:47:37] ksinvest : it means "smart shitting", being a smart-ass is close
[2015-08-25 01:47:58] j8 : yeah thats what i figured, hah
[2015-08-25 01:48:12] krtek.net : "to run your mouth (off)"
[2015-08-25 01:48:16] BitMEX_Arthur : Fyi no more DPE on `XBTZ15`
[2015-08-25 01:48:43] j8 : interesting. that order looks a bit out of place
[2015-08-25 01:48:51] krtek.net : been smart-ass is pretty close I think...
[2015-08-25 01:48:55] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah looks like someone fat fingered or really wanted out fast
[2015-08-25 01:49:45] krtek.net : chesus...
[2015-08-25 01:49:45] j8 : without hitting anything on the way apparently...
[2015-08-25 01:50:42] ksinvest : BitMEX_Arthur: are there some DPE stats, how it changes over time? it's a great (most transparent) system, but still hard to understand
[2015-08-25 02:04:20] centurygate : It's deflation fellas
[2015-08-25 02:04:34] centurygate : if money is debt than a failure of the bitcoin security model is a default
[2015-08-25 02:04:43] centurygate : probably that belies some of the selling
[2015-08-25 02:04:53] centurygate : there's just a general flight to the dollar everywhere right now
[2015-08-25 02:05:48] j8 : dollar fell today too though.
[2015-08-25 02:06:42] centurygate : nice observation
[2015-08-25 02:06:58] ksinvest : true, but i have the feeling that we will defend the 200 (my bot is long 147.54 liquidation price, 169.20 circuit breaker, i'm optimistic)
[2015-08-25 02:08:05] ksinvest : Kim Dotcom is our Soros ;)
[2015-08-25 02:08:13] centurygate : haha this is why I only arb
[2015-08-25 02:08:26] centurygate : so the dollar fell against the Euro and the Yen
[2015-08-25 02:08:28] centurygate : but
[2015-08-25 02:08:37] centurygate : it was another brutal day for EM currencies against the dollar
[2015-08-25 02:08:55] centurygate : BTC is sort of an EM currency you might say
[2015-08-25 02:09:25] ksinvest : everything is re-balancing, there was also some artificial pressure on Bitcoin
[2015-08-25 02:09:26] j8 : yeah, i could see that.
[2015-08-25 02:09:50] ksinvest : the fork "issue"...
[2015-08-25 02:10:14] centurygate : oh the EUR and JPY rallied because of carry trade unwinds relating to liquidate US stock positions
[2015-08-25 02:10:39] centurygate : I try to only look for systemica mechanical reasons for these things
[2015-08-25 02:10:50] centurygate : fear of a BTC "default" in a sense may be at pla
[2015-08-25 02:10:52] centurygate : y
[2015-08-25 02:10:59] centurygate : but it's momentum
[2015-08-25 02:10:59] GAmma : XBTZ trade ... what happened?
[2015-08-25 02:11:03] centurygate : also nobody has talked about this
[2015-08-25 02:11:19] centurygate : but Chinese capital flight is at play given the spreads
[2015-08-25 02:11:25] j8 : GAmma: we really don't know
[2015-08-25 02:11:35] GAmma : nuts
[2015-08-25 02:12:31] centurygate : well, BTCCNY/BTCUSD reached 6.63 the other day
[2015-08-25 02:12:46] centurygate : so clearly there was overbidding to escape the corral and get into dollars internationally
[2015-08-25 02:12:57] centurygate : concurrent with that monster down-day that blew out the Bitfinex book
[2015-08-25 02:13:30] centurygate : it's hard but not impossible to measure the related volumes, and it's harder to quantify how book mediums are thinner some days and become vulnerable
[2015-08-25 02:13:45] centurygate : you might say, bitcoin is getting an opportunity to do what it's truly useful for
[2015-08-25 02:13:50] centurygate : and that is become a eurodollar substitute
[2015-08-25 02:13:58] centurygate : however in the process it has to find a price low
[2015-08-25 02:14:25] GAmma : I think btc is sellling exclusively on the fork issue ...
[2015-08-25 02:14:29] centurygate : until the basis of BTC stock used to satisfy demand for crypto-dollars reaches some equilibrium over the fear/greed dynamic of hoarders
[2015-08-25 02:14:58] GAmma : otherwise would catch a bid amid US$ asset liquidation
[2015-08-25 02:15:14] centurygate : oh well I'll get back to coding so I can get up early to deliver a workshop, panel moderation and lecture to a bunch of bankers tomorrow
[2015-08-25 02:15:38] centurygate : hmmm, no because the utility comes from buying it, then selling it
[2015-08-25 02:15:46] centurygate : not it's status as the neo-gold per se
[2015-08-25 02:15:50] centurygate : at least not with this momentum
[2015-08-25 02:15:55] centurygate : peace out everyone, stay saf
[2015-08-25 02:16:01] j8 : see ya
[2015-08-25 02:17:19] j8 : GAmma: i think the fork is the big fear issue, but there's more to it than that
[2015-08-25 02:18:10] ksinvest : centurygate: thanks for interesting thoughts...
[2015-08-25 02:20:45] laisee : Fork is highly visible symptom, but cause is lack of real governance & maturity of developers. Which should worry anyone invested in BTC.
[2015-08-25 02:22:52] j8 : no progress toward bigger adoption, really.
[2015-08-25 02:23:52] ksinvest : it doesn't really matter if this fork or another soft-fork later
[2015-08-25 02:24:23] ksinvest : although it's good to have the discussion
[2015-08-25 02:25:06] ksinvest : but there is no big risk the Bitcoin could break because of a 75% fork (or not this one)
[2015-08-25 02:25:26] ksinvest : that*
[2015-08-25 02:26:20] j8 : no, i agree, not really worried about it
[2015-08-25 02:26:34] j8 : the threat is overblown i think.
[2015-08-25 02:27:37] laisee : true on 75% switch , there are signs that payment processors, exchanges etc are already moving to support 8MB via one path or another
[2015-08-25 02:28:45] j8 : however i don't think we'll have a bull trend until people feel like it's resolved, one way or the other
[2015-08-25 02:29:21] ksinvest : switch is highly probable but it is as well ok to make smaller steps a bit later, clear signal for fast adoption would be better for mid-term price
[2015-08-25 02:30:05] ksinvest : j8: agree, uncertainty is the problem (not risk)
[2015-08-25 02:30:35] j8 : yeah.
[2015-08-25 02:32:55] ksinvest : they should teach more uncertainty management, not this shitty risk management - mostly psychology on business schools #klugscheiß
[2015-08-25 02:34:29] ksinvest : this is the time for my monkey robot, buying low when everybody thinks it's insane ;)
[2015-08-25 02:36:30] cryptojoe : ksinvest: oh the getting is good
[2015-08-25 02:36:43] ksinvest : ask at 206.69, a very rare moment when not at the top of the order book, does not want to close/sell too cheap
[2015-08-25 02:38:00] ksinvest : but i can't predict if this moment is now or at 180, but the cheap buy always comes after losses in market making ;)
[2015-08-25 02:38:42] ksinvest : 206.71, can't say why even...
[2015-08-25 02:39:52] ksinvest : 206.77
[2015-08-25 02:39:53] cryptojoe : The sell volume was better when price was lower. psychology is to sell low and buy high. crazy stuff
[2015-08-25 02:41:23] j8 : only half crazy.. buy when it's going up, but you only know it's going up because it's higher than it was
[2015-08-25 02:41:34] ksinvest : fear of losing or missing out, kahnemann just won a nobel price about 10 years ago, that humans and markets are not rational, actually unbelievable that anyone ever thought
[2015-08-25 02:42:22] j8 : yeah, people are anything but rational
[2015-08-25 02:42:45] ksinvest : that's why we need the monkey robots :)
[2015-08-25 02:43:13] j8 : then again, i'm not sure neural networks are rational either.
[2015-08-25 02:43:47] cryptojoe : go monkey
[2015-08-25 02:44:00] ksinvest : Complex adaptive systems, more e.g. on Twitter https://twitter.com/RobotFinance
[2015-08-25 02:44:06] cryptojoe : j8: they just find paths of least resistance
[2015-08-25 02:44:38] cryptojoe : it's just an accident that neural networks are usually most efficient when finding paths of least resistance
[2015-08-25 02:45:51] j8 : yeah, i think the ability to explain why you did what you did is part of being rational
[2015-08-25 02:46:37] cryptojoe : j8: but people are proven to confabulate when they are asked. provably so. they make up shit.
[2015-08-25 02:47:04] j8 : ok, not a good practical test
[2015-08-25 02:47:57] j8 : i mean that something that does the "statistically optimal" thing by design is different from something that draws conclusions and acts
[2015-08-25 02:48:13] cryptojoe : psychologists screen for confounds. people say they picked A rather than B because C, when prompted even though they actually picked B rather than A. they're freaking liars/confabulators about their own actions
[2015-08-25 02:50:01] cryptojoe : Meanwhile the price of bitcoin is going the hell up and i was wanting way more contracts
[2015-08-25 02:50:57] ksinvest : my bot is now at 206.63 at the top of the order book, interesting
[2015-08-25 02:51:26] ksinvest : 207.62, number 4....
[2015-08-25 02:51:55] ksinvest : a bit slow sometimes
[2015-08-25 02:52:00] laisee : people tell lies to themselves all the time on what they do and why.
[2015-08-25 02:52:34] j8 : guilty
[2015-08-25 02:53:06] ksinvest : most of them, most of the time - but most of the lies are irrelevent, just e.g. to not show weakness
[2015-08-25 02:53:28] cryptojoe : Are we gonna get a little dip before btc goes up? call it in the air
[2015-08-25 02:54:29] quantuml : i wanted to see if anyone could clarify some confusion amongst settlement
[2015-08-25 02:54:45] ksinvest : hard to say, better use not too much leverage
[2015-08-25 02:54:57] j8 : quantuml: whats up
[2015-08-25 02:55:33] laisee : “Humankind cannot bear very much reality.” - TS Eliot
[2015-08-25 02:55:57] ksinvest : :)
[2015-08-25 02:56:34] quantuml : ok, I think I might have confused myself, but if, for example, I go long a contract today and the price of XBT in USD is $100, when the contract expires (say in 30 days) the price of XBT is $150, would the exchange pay me $50?
[2015-08-25 02:56:41] ksinvest : or the matrix...
[2015-08-25 02:56:46] cryptojoe : i'm already up .8 bitcoin over the last couple hours. this is way more fun that margin trading eth over a POLO. weeee!
[2015-08-25 02:57:40] j8 : quantuml: on `XBT` series you would have 50% more bitcoin
[2015-08-25 02:57:46] ksinvest : quantuml: also depends on fees for long term contracts
[2015-08-25 02:57:49] j8 : which is actually better than 50 dollars more
[2015-08-25 02:58:13] j8 : on `XBU` series, yes $50
[2015-08-25 02:58:42] quantuml : right, i'm assuming no fees for simplicity.
[2015-08-25 03:00:16] quantuml : ok, so for XBU series, the price of the contract remains at $100, so I would receive 1.5 contracts which would equal 1.5 bitcoins?
[2015-08-25 03:00:54] quantuml : sorry, meant XBT series, XBU series
[2015-08-25 03:01:28] j8 : on XBT the contract value grows in USD terms as the price rises
[2015-08-25 03:02:16] ksinvest : you are correct with 1.5 BTC
[2015-08-25 03:03:28] quantuml : ok, so the notional amount is fixed at $100 per contract and the amount of bitcoins adjusts to reflect the change in the price of bitcoin?
[2015-08-25 03:03:45] j8 : no, $100 notional on `XBU`
[2015-08-25 03:04:07] quantuml : oh ok, i see
[2015-08-25 03:04:35] quantuml : and the XBU series can be used to arbitrage with OKCoin?
[2015-08-25 03:04:40] BitMEX_Sam : Simplest way to put it is that pnl in XBU is linear is dollars and pnl in XBT is linear in Bitcoin
[2015-08-25 03:04:49] BitMEX_Sam : quantuml: Yes
[2015-08-25 03:05:27] j8 : quantuml: just keep in mind the difference in index calculation, other than that they're the same
[2015-08-25 03:05:34] BitMEX_Sam : XBU is good for arb and for hedging Bitcoin exposure. It pairs well with other (non-futures) arb strategies very well too as it has no DPE/socialized loss
[2015-08-25 03:06:21] ksinvest : depending on the price might also be good for low levergered long positions
[2015-08-25 03:06:40] quantuml : ok, i was looking over the example of future vs future arbitrage example with OKCoin and I am confused as to what happens at settlement
[2015-08-25 03:08:02] j8 : the settlement timing is a little different, so you'd be unhedged for about 4 hours
[2015-08-25 03:08:05] bosma : anyone else on TV randomly having invalid symbol on BITMEX pairs?
[2015-08-25 03:08:13] bosma : working earlier, invalid symbol now
[2015-08-25 03:08:36] j8 : and okcoin uses a mix of USD and CNY markets to calculate the settlement price
[2015-08-25 03:08:37] ksinvest : this f*cking Woodchipper, be careful ;)
[2015-08-25 03:08:57] BitMEX_Sam : bosma: The data seems to be in and out on TV
[2015-08-25 03:09:08] BitMEX_Sam : I ping them almost every day about it. I'm not sure what the issue is
[2015-08-25 03:09:12] bosma : ah
[2015-08-25 03:10:41] quantuml : ok, I understand the unhedging for the difference in settlement timing, but what is confusing me is how is profit realized? do you essentially owe one exchange bitcoin and the other exchange pays you bitcoin?
[2015-08-25 03:11:01] j8 : you would take a loss on one and a gain on the other
[2015-08-25 03:11:19] j8 : but the systems are set up so that you don't "owe" them afterwards
[2015-08-25 03:11:38] quantuml : right, but the loss and gain are in bitcoins? correct?
[2015-08-25 03:11:44] j8 : yes
[2015-08-25 03:12:12] quantuml : ok, because each exchange settles in bitcoin only? not in dollars or bitcoins?
[2015-08-25 03:12:20] j8 : right
[2015-08-25 03:12:36] j8 : dollars don't exist here
[2015-08-25 03:12:59] j8 : and over there, they're only used for the spot market
[2015-08-25 03:13:37] quantuml : ok, for example, if I were to wire USD to OKCoin and then change them for Bitcoins on the spot market?
[2015-08-25 03:13:37] j8 : so yeah when we say you make $50, we really mean the equivalent in bitcoin
[2015-08-25 03:14:25] j8 : yeah you could do that, i would just use whatever exchange is has convenient deposit methods for you to buy the bitcoins
[2015-08-25 03:14:42] quantuml : ok, if the exchanges are not set up so that you "owe" them, how are losses settled? i think that is the root of my confusion
[2015-08-25 03:14:53] j8 : you put down margin
[2015-08-25 03:15:26] j8 : it comes out of that.
[2015-08-25 03:15:34] quantuml : oh ok, so any losses, just reduce your margin balance and if your margin is not sufficient, the position is just liquidated?
[2015-08-25 03:15:39] j8 : yep
[2015-08-25 03:15:46] j8 : that's the big danger
[2015-08-25 03:16:03] quantuml : ah ok, that makes more sense
[2015-08-25 03:17:06] j8 : sometimes there are big divergences, like on the runup to 2000 cny
[2015-08-25 03:17:27] cryptojoe : it's glorious. but also dangerous. must be careful
[2015-08-25 03:17:27] quantuml : so if i were to short a contract on BitMex and long a contract on OKCoin, I could, in theory, take a margin loss in my BitMex account and I would experience a gain in my OKCoin account, and hopefully the loss on bitmex is less than the gain on okcoin?
[2015-08-25 03:17:29] ksinvest : and on XBU you would just win/lose 0.33333 for a 50$ move (100/150), on XBT you'll win/lose 0.5
[2015-08-25 03:18:53] ksinvest : so the quanto effect is a bit like leverage as well, that's more risky for shorting but better for leveraged longs
[2015-08-25 03:19:04] j8 : quantuml: yeah that's the idea.
[2015-08-25 03:19:35] quantuml : ah, ok, I was making it more complicated than it needed to be
[2015-08-25 03:20:19] j8 : if you want to see how this can go horribly wrong, look at july 10th on okcoin futures vs bitfinex (which we were using at the time)
[2015-08-25 03:20:54] quantuml : ok, so it's not arbitrage in the sense that it's a riskless profit?
[2015-08-25 03:21:24] ksinvest : you have counter party risk, risk of flawed data, etc.
[2015-08-25 03:21:35] j8 : there is the risk of getting liquidated on one side
[2015-08-25 03:21:45] j8 : or both sides even if it was real choppy
[2015-08-25 03:22:10] j8 : that's unlikely without you noticing though.
[2015-08-25 03:23:24] quantuml : i see, so it's not set it and forget it?
[2015-08-25 03:23:41] j8 : and there's the risk that the settlement prices diverge
[2015-08-25 03:24:01] j8 : if you used low enough leverage i'd set and forget
[2015-08-25 03:24:12] quantuml : what would be low leverage?
[2015-08-25 03:24:16] quantuml : i assume not 25x
[2015-08-25 03:24:20] j8 : no.
[2015-08-25 03:24:51] ksinvest : DPE and less transparent shared loss systems and fees are curcial for arb strategies
[2015-08-25 03:24:53] j8 : enough to keep your liquidation price like $100 away
[2015-08-25 03:25:15] j8 : oh yeah i forgot about that. socialized losses can screw your arb too.
[2015-08-25 03:25:52] ksinvest : market making is much more simple (and less competition)
[2015-08-25 03:26:01] quantuml : would buying insurance for socialized losses help to mitigate that risk?
[2015-08-25 03:26:50] j8 : on `XBU` series there is no socialized loss, and you pay the insurance by default. (we're on 0 fees until september)
[2015-08-25 03:27:09] j8 : nothing you can do about it on okcoin
[2015-08-25 03:27:23] quantuml : oh ok, so for market making, how is that different than just trading on the exchange?
[2015-08-25 03:27:57] ksinvest : do you have a core long on Bitcoin?
[2015-08-25 03:28:15] quantuml : yes
[2015-08-25 03:29:51] ksinvest : then market making might be a long term strategy for you, there may be bad times but very good times, so you slowly <code>earn the spread</code>
[2015-08-25 03:31:37] quantuml : ah i see. how does one become a market maker?
[2015-08-25 03:31:41] ksinvest : short term market making is always a bit speculation, you might miss the one "buy extremely low" - market making is passive, so it might be boring (the orders decide when, you decide the price)
[2015-08-25 03:33:26] quantuml : so just enter a series of limit orders?
[2015-08-25 03:33:30] ksinvest : try this on testnet: https://github.com/BitMEX/market-maker (you need to integrate the reference price and adapt it a bit)
[2015-08-25 03:33:59] quantuml : oh ok, thank you, that is really helpful
[2015-08-25 03:35:23] quantuml : i assume there are market making bots for other exchanges?
[2015-08-25 03:35:54] j8 : lol i forgot about my testnet bot for like a week... lost 220 testBTC today!
[2015-08-25 03:36:09] j8 : er yesterday.
[2015-08-25 03:37:04] ksinvest : this is multi exchange and promising but never tried
[2015-08-25 03:37:09] ksinvest : https://github.com/BitMEX/tribeca
[2015-08-25 03:38:03] quantuml : never tried as in no other market makers ever have tried it?
[2015-08-25 03:38:29] ksinvest : never tried tribeca
[2015-08-25 03:39:30] quantuml : hm, ok, I will certainly have a look at it. thank you again
[2015-08-25 03:40:16] BitMEX_Sam : quantuml: Don't use tribeca, I haven't yet modified it for BitMEX
[2015-08-25 03:40:38] ksinvest : np, we need more decentralized liquidity provision and there is no problem with competition on BitMEX right now
[2015-08-25 03:40:42] BitMEX_Sam : It's likely a better bot than our `market-maker` but it's more complex
[2015-08-25 03:40:55] BitMEX_Sam : More liquidity is better for everyone
[2015-08-25 03:50:49] cryptojoe : bitstamp dipping. i was hoping for that
[2015-08-25 03:56:33] ksinvest : btc china or huobi and okcoin #test
[2015-08-25 03:56:59] ksinvest : mt gox #test2
[2015-08-25 03:57:10] ksinvest : BitMEX_Sam: help me sam
[2015-08-25 03:57:21] BitMEX_Sam : ksinvest: What's up?
[2015-08-25 03:57:55] ksinvest : what was the second word/phrase like okcoin?
[2015-08-25 03:58:21] ksinvest : hint?
[2015-08-25 03:58:45] BitMEX_Sam : it's a four letter word
[2015-08-25 03:58:54] j8 : fuck
[2015-08-25 03:58:59] ksinvest : btce
[2015-08-25 03:59:07] ksinvest : mhmm
[2015-08-25 03:59:29] ksinvest : fuck
[2015-08-25 03:59:33] ksinvest : bingo
[2015-08-25 04:02:18] BitMEX_Sam : You got it
[2015-08-25 04:02:25] BitMEX_Sam : We like to keep it classy in here.
[2015-08-25 04:02:43] j8 : just in case theres kids
[2015-08-25 04:02:52] j8 : trading futures.
[2015-08-25 04:04:15] ksinvest : :) finally i'm one of the inner circle you just have to know about the dangers of okcoin (very dangerous) and fuck (actually not so bad)
[2015-08-25 04:07:27] ksinvest : and for real i switched off the power of my modem, left my flat and googled for "The Woodchipper exploit" on 3G because of a broking link containing okcoin :)
[2015-08-25 04:07:40] krtek.net : ok now I get it, I was confused that btce is actually also a four letter word :))
[2015-08-25 04:08:56] ksinvest : thanks for this funny day, Sam (and okcoin)
[2015-08-25 04:09:49] krtek.net : butone final secret is still escaping me... where the gently caress the word "to get rekt" came from? :)
[2015-08-25 04:10:43] ksinvest : Korrekt?
[2015-08-25 04:11:44] krtek.net : I mean. this started only lately, half a year, max a year. I've never seen it before (because you would get goxxed back than).
[2015-08-25 04:12:09] krtek.net : what was the starting event of this meme? :)
[2015-08-25 04:12:17] ksinvest : me neither until today :)
[2015-08-25 04:14:15] krtek.net : hmm... it doesn't seems to be cryptoworld contained but a general internet meme... ok...
[2015-08-25 04:14:57] ksinvest : urban dictionary says online games
[2015-08-25 04:18:31] BitMEX_Sam : I think it was big in poker too
[2015-08-25 04:18:45] krtek.net : yep. short version for "to get wrecked" I'm putting it in a category "no proper place for using it instead of the regular version exists" together with "prolly" which I actually even hate :)
[2015-08-25 04:18:46] BitMEX_Sam : Not sure where "hodl" came from though
[2015-08-25 04:19:05] krtek.net : hodl came from bt, epic thread, wait
[2015-08-25 04:19:40] krtek.net : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=375643.0 this should be it.
[2015-08-25 04:20:46] BitMEX_Sam : Ahaha that's spectacular.
[2015-08-25 04:22:25] krtek.net : the best part is, the OP is actually an english teacher afaik.
[2015-08-25 05:08:32] cryptojoe : btc climbing
[2015-08-25 05:10:59] krtek.net : I always had a feeling there was something wrong with Galvin...
[2015-08-25 05:12:43] krtek.net : but this is getting ludicrous https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/nodes/?q=%2FBitcoin+XT%3A0.11.0%2F
[2015-08-25 05:13:18] j8 : yeah they're faking them.
[2015-08-25 05:13:43] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah all DO instances just for raw #s
[2015-08-25 05:13:48] BitMEX_Sam : You can't fake mined blocks though
[2015-08-25 05:16:45] krtek.net : what is the depth value representing? the time the node was added to the database?
[2015-08-25 05:19:22] laisee : https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3iao3i/how_to_run_3000_completely_legit_full_nodes_aka
[2015-08-25 05:19:44] krtek.net : I think not, it just a number of height reported. they are actually adding couple of nodes, they are not completelly fake (but I bet they have patched getaddr)
[2015-08-25 05:21:47] j8 : https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3iao3i/how_to_run_3000_completely_legit_full_nodes_aka
[2015-08-25 05:21:50] j8 : oh
[2015-08-25 05:22:00] BitMEX_Sam : Interesting
[2015-08-25 05:22:01] j8 : sorry @laisee beat me to it
[2015-08-25 05:22:03] krtek.net : Yep, but it can be done even more stealth and hard to detect, this is easy to uncover.
[2015-08-25 05:22:11] BitMEX_Sam : In any case nothing matter more than mined blocks
[2015-08-25 05:22:22] BitMEX_Sam : # of nodes is a distraction even if legit
[2015-08-25 05:22:38] laisee : yes, mining is ruth, nodes are easily faked.
[2015-08-25 05:23:28] krtek.net : Well... there is a plan behind this.... and unknown steps to be taken... they wouldn't do it if there wasn'ta big chance for the "Core side" to make a mistake and for Bitcoin XT to win.
[2015-08-25 05:23:47] krtek.net : This is not about BIP101 or size of the blocks
[2015-08-25 05:24:20] BitMEX_Sam : Night all, catch you in the morning
[2015-08-25 05:24:35] krtek.net : night nigh
[2015-08-25 05:24:38] j8 : see ya
[2015-08-25 05:25:41] gustavo7 : gnight
[2015-08-25 05:27:04] laisee : krtek> whats the plan? who gets to keep the precious ring.
[2015-08-25 05:36:44] krtek.net : well... the consensus rules should be in-line with the network needing the change (that is the "not before" rule), the 75 % majority of blocks comes as second importance minding this. The BIP101 "not before" change (and 2 other changes not really spoken about!) is set completelly arbitrary (from our point of view) and has nothing to do with the prediction of the time the network will actually need the change.
[2015-08-25 05:37:21] krtek.net : we don't need bigger blocks _now_ why the rush? why the preasure to look it like we need them now?
[2015-08-25 05:39:01] krtek.net : The only pool mining the new format is afaik slush and I will (try) personally speak with him about this when I come back to Prague later this week, we are somewhat friends...
[2015-08-25 05:41:31] krtek.net : Satoshi Labs (think of them as the same entity as the pool, the division of the two is more or less legal only) is known to make mistakes in the past (changing the history with trezor code) but are not afraid to correct them.
[2015-08-25 05:42:02] krtek.net : got sidetracked again... sorry..
[2015-08-25 05:45:58] krtek.net : on the topic... the XT code has some other discusable "features" which can (not so) easily (but possibly) be used to cut off unwanted part of the network from the rest.
[2015-08-25 05:47:09] laisee : you mean the Tor disconnect when ports are all taken up?
[2015-08-25 05:47:54] krtek.net : the meritum here is how to make the miners switch? You cannot make them more successful in mining blocks (without plain obvious cheating and without having at least 50 % of miining power on XT)... but you can make it so they will earn more on fees.
[2015-08-25 05:47:56] muirtastic : So what is "Witheld Profit". When is that available...at the end of contract expiration even if flat and no position?
[2015-08-25 05:48:19] gustavo7 : 796 has EURUSD trading settled in BTC now, this is going more shady by the minute
[2015-08-25 05:53:09] ksinvest : krtek.net: "Satoshi Labs", nice name
[2015-08-25 06:05:40] BitMEX_Arthur : muirtastic: It is available at weekly Friday at 12:00 GMT
[2015-08-25 06:05:45] BitMEX_Arthur : that's when settlement or rebalance happens
[2015-08-25 06:06:01] krtek.net : + uint64_t nBlockMinSize = GetArg("-blockminsize", DEFAULT_BLOCK_MIN_SIZE); + nBlockMinSize = std::min(nBlockMaxSize, nBlockMinSize);
[2015-08-25 06:07:10] krtek.net : this is the switch that would together with accepting double spends to mempool and attaching the fee only to the second transaction in the chain make the miners that are using XT gain more than Core ones.
[2015-08-25 06:11:23] krtek.net : But maybe its just the antiddos feature... you just need the second "test" to last long enough for miners to switch and hold the "test" for 1000 blocks.
[2015-08-25 06:37:45] laisee : krtek.net:> sounds serious, maybe you should post your findings on github or reddit ?
[2015-08-25 06:45:45] krtek.net : well... not really yet... I will need to dig into this deeply... Scratch what I've written, they are only wild unfound speculations.
[2015-08-25 08:38:19] ksinvest : XBU24H saved Bitcoins a** fuck
[2015-08-25 08:39:15] ksinvest : not alone thouch
[2015-08-25 08:39:51] ksinvest : the better market microstructures
[2015-08-25 08:40:15] BitMEX_Arthur : What do you mean saved Bitcoin's ass
[2015-08-25 08:43:06] ksinvest : it was more a joke. but on a small scale: arb traders did 56.0376 BTC in 24H, never had that much. i guess arb traders AND market makers made money on the most trades. losses were transfered by arb traders to more inefficient markets.
[2015-08-25 08:45:56] ksinvest : don't know how much of the 56 were arb traders, but guess a lot
[2015-08-25 08:49:56] ksinvest : BitMEX_Arthur: does it make sense, you have the data <code>:)</code>
[2015-08-25 08:52:13] BitMEX_Arthur : would take digging into, but it's sum zero someone lost money
[2015-08-25 08:59:57] ksinvest : yes so the arb traders have to make mone on an other market (inside BitMEX) or at fuck okcoin (other exchanges) and their counterparties lose money, you only see it inside the exchange i guess
[2015-08-25 09:23:16] BitMEX_Wally : fucking okcoin?
[2015-08-25 09:24:03] BitMEX_Wally : Most amusing use of regex
[2015-08-25 12:56:53] BitMEX_Sam : Morning traders
[2015-08-25 15:27:52] krtek.net : Bitfinex online? Aaaaaand it's gone :D
[2015-08-25 15:28:29] ssa3512 : yeah I think bfx died again
[2015-08-25 15:28:45] krtek.net : https://imgflip.com/i/q1mov
[2015-08-25 15:29:17] ssa3512 : price moving quickly? better shut everything down!
[2015-08-25 15:30:27] krtek.net : ssa3512: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=079RCUtk8s4 CANCEL ALL ORDERS! :D
[2015-08-25 15:31:05] ssa3512 : yeah my bfx balance is $0.06
[2015-08-25 15:31:08] ssa3512 : because f them
[2015-08-25 15:31:26] krtek.net : Took my money out of there on Aug 7 :))
[2015-08-25 15:43:52] j8 : hey, the price has three digits and starts with a 2, thats amazing
[2015-08-25 15:50:04] BitMEX_Sam : Up and down, up and down
[2015-08-25 15:53:11] ssa3512 : the trades aren't even following the orderbook at this point
[2015-08-25 15:53:26] ssa3512 : bfx is toast
[2015-08-25 15:53:48] ssa3512 : how do you have a buy at 226.68 when there is a 200 BTC sell order at 225.00
[2015-08-25 16:03:27] laisee : how is the exchange==toast option product coming along? Could test it on BFX.
[2015-08-25 16:20:33] krtek.net : If bfx is running alphapoint, it's no supprise they get rekt (using this word for the first im my life!)
[2015-08-25 16:20:35] krtek.net : https://alphapoint.com/api/docs/private/
[2015-08-25 16:20:43] krtek.net : anybody else see a problem in the auth here?
[2015-08-25 16:21:28] BitMEX_Sam : https://twitter.com/bitfinex/status/636208387554869248
[2015-08-25 16:21:44] BitMEX_Sam : I don't think that they're on alphapoint at all
[2015-08-25 16:22:08] BitMEX_Sam : Heard some conflicting anecdotes. An employee told me they're using nothing, finex seems to have said once they migrated for spot but nothing else (not margin)
[2015-08-25 16:22:28] BitMEX_Sam : laisee: CDS is a ways off unfortunately but we definitely want to launch it
[2015-08-25 16:22:45] krtek.net : I bet they are still running good-old-and-proven bitcoinica code :D
[2015-08-25 16:23:26] BitMEX_Sam : Tried and true
[2015-08-25 16:24:23] krtek.net : Anyway, can somebody confirm that I'm not trippin' and the alphapoint API is vulnerable to MIM?
[2015-08-25 16:29:15] ssa3512 : http://i.imgur.com/2sToDP1.png
[2015-08-25 16:29:17] ssa3512 : that depth chart
[2015-08-25 16:30:30] gustavo7 : trololo
[2015-08-25 16:30:52] BitMEX_Sam : krtek.net: What do you think the problem is? Haven't given it a thorough read yet
[2015-08-25 16:32:20] gustavo7 : thanks finex now my short may be useful after all
[2015-08-25 16:32:25] krtek.net : Can I PM you somehow? This should probably not be discussed publically.
[2015-08-25 16:32:28] krtek.net : freenode?
[2015-08-25 16:33:05] krtek.net : I'm lnovy there...
[2015-08-25 16:33:14] lnovy : what?
[2015-08-25 16:34:43] lnovy : ah, that's actually me, ok...
[2015-08-25 16:36:14] ssa3512 : https://i.imgur.com/vZ4e0uY.gif
[2015-08-25 16:39:00] lnovy : it practically the same attack as is now popular on the floating-code remote controls on cars and gates...
[2015-08-25 16:39:03] lnovy : only worse
[2015-08-25 16:43:02] ssa3512 : ha something just went through on finex
[2015-08-25 16:45:22] muirtastic : I'm glad I found this site a couple of days ago with Finex down. It's great to hedge my position there, if nothing else.
[2015-08-25 16:45:49] gustavo7 : it's a sell!
[2015-08-25 16:50:25] drichardson : I'm looking through the API... is it just me or is there no way to get a ticker value for xbt?
[2015-08-25 16:50:33] BitMEX_Sam : drichardson: For an individual contract?
[2015-08-25 16:50:36] BitMEX_Sam : Or for the index
[2015-08-25 16:50:40] drichardson : for the index
[2015-08-25 16:51:03] BitMEX_Sam : See `lastPrice` etc on https://www.bitmex.com/api/explorer/#!/instrument/getIndices
[2015-08-25 16:51:53] BitMEX_Sam : You can also do https://www.bitmex.com:443/api/v1/trade?symbol=.XBT&count=100&reverse=true
[2015-08-25 16:52:00] BitMEX_Sam : Which is a bit simpler.
[2015-08-25 16:52:23] drichardson : Thanks so much!
[2015-08-25 16:53:33] BitMEX_Sam : Also try "wss://www.bitmex.com/realtime/websocket?subscribe=trade:.XBT" if you want it via websocket
[2015-08-25 16:54:52] drichardson : I prefer rest. :) but thanks. I'm just used to API's giving back "buy, sell, low, high, last, vol" and that's IT for indices.
[2015-08-25 16:55:01] BitMEX_Sam : Right. We offer quite a bit more data
[2015-08-25 16:55:16] BitMEX_Sam : Our indices inherit from our instrument objects so there are some unused fields of course.
[2015-08-25 16:55:34] BitMEX_Sam : a simple ohlcv quote feed is a good idea though.
[2015-08-25 16:56:31] drichardson : So I need to keep track of a 'nonce' value, and everytime I send a POST req increment it?
[2015-08-25 16:57:37] BitMEX_Sam : drichardson: If you use an API key, yeah
[2015-08-25 16:57:45] BitMEX_Sam : Otherwise you can auth with your user & pass
[2015-08-25 16:58:27] BitMEX_Sam : It's very similar to the schemes used on Coinbase, Bitfinex, etc
[2015-08-25 16:58:41] BitMEX_Sam : We generally see most users just use the current microtime as a nonce, that's easy to track
[2015-08-25 16:59:59] drichardson : cool.
[2015-08-25 17:04:12] gustavo7 : eff it i'm going biking
[2015-08-25 17:17:29] Kiran : 6 second lag for trade
[2015-08-25 17:36:00] BitMEX_Sam : Here or at finex
[2015-08-25 17:36:02] BitMEX_Sam : ?
[2015-08-25 18:07:06] drichardson : BitMEX_Sam: I'm trying to create an API key (API docs link to the python script, which no longer exists here) https://github.com/BitMEX/market-maker/blob/master/generate-api-key.py If I don't have an API k ey yet, and want to auth with my username / password, how would I do that?
[2015-08-25 18:07:41] BitMEX_Sam : Thanks, I'll fix that link
[2015-08-25 18:07:43] BitMEX_Sam : https://github.com/BitMEX/market-maker/blob/master/util/generate-api-key.py
[2015-08-25 18:08:05] BitMEX_Sam : See https://www.bitmex.com/app/restAPI#authentication about auth
[2015-08-25 18:10:39] drichardson : thx.
[2015-08-25 18:30:35] drichardson : BitMEX_Sam: Do you know if that's for Python 2 or Python 3? Looks like Python2 (print "", instead of print() ), it doesn't compile on either Python2.7 or 3.4 though.
[2015-08-25 18:31:09] BitMEX_Sam : drichardson: Oh that's interesting. It should be Python 2
[2015-08-25 18:31:35] BitMEX_Sam : I'll modify the code for compat
[2015-08-25 18:33:08] gustavo7 : phew, so bitfinex is down again?
[2015-08-25 18:35:02] drichardson : might just be on my end, get an error with 'No module named Constants'
[2015-08-25 18:37:37] BitMEX_Sam : I've updated the module drichardson
[2015-08-25 18:57:24] drichardson : BitMEX_Sam: http://pastebin.com/zKpVEXdc
[2015-08-25 19:10:43] j8 : i'm guessing you only grabbed the one file generate-api-key.py ... there's some dependencies in the market-maker folder
[2015-08-25 19:12:03] matt314159 : here's a self-contained example of auth in python
[2015-08-25 19:12:05] matt314159 : http://pastebin.com/Kn1yTLmE
[2015-08-25 19:20:33] matt314159 : btw BitMEX_Sam the documentation is misleading as it implies the postdata should be json encoded in the signature message
[2015-08-25 19:21:05] matt314159 : when in fact it's just www-form-urlencoded, like the request body
[2015-08-25 19:23:36] matt314159 : the "typo" exists both in https://www.bitmex.com/app/apiKeys and in the comments above generate_signature in the MM bot
[2015-08-25 20:02:36] BitMEX_Sam : matt314159: You can do it both ways
[2015-08-25 20:02:48] BitMEX_Sam : The server will accept urlencoded or json, and as long as you sign the raw data you sent it will work
[2015-08-25 20:06:01] BitMEX_Sam : drichardson: Thank you for that - we did a reorg and apparently didn't test the util scripts
[2015-08-25 20:06:02] BitMEX_Sam : I've fixed the imports
[2015-08-25 20:29:46] cowtung : open up your shorts or get rekt
[2015-08-25 20:30:45] gustavo7 : 1430 CNY seems stable, maybe china can hold it up
[2015-08-25 20:31:17] cowtung : good luck with that
[2015-08-25 20:33:15] gustavo7 : oh i'm still short alright, currently in the red
[2015-08-25 20:34:08] gustavo7 : i have this trendline on my tv, if it holds up then it's either 230 by midnight or we'll go down again
[2015-08-25 20:47:39] cloud : 230 bitchesssss
[2015-08-25 21:50:28] ksinvest : good morning or whatever
[2015-08-25 21:59:27] ksinvest : gustavo7: i agree, either up or down, or stable for some time ;)
[2015-08-25 22:03:20] zanza : Moon time ?
[2015-08-25 22:03:37] cryptojoe : is it that time already?
[2015-08-25 22:04:53] cryptojoe : climbing nicely on okcoin. you know bitstamp will follow
[2015-08-25 22:32:48] ksinvest : we might need to update "fair basis", interest rates are too high, Finex Swaps are no "risk free interest rate" guys
[2015-08-25 22:35:33] ksinvest : we would need a Bitfinex CDS to calculate the real <code>risk free interest rate</code> from bfx swaps
[2015-08-25 22:53:51] j8 : they're not based on bfx swaps.
[2015-08-25 22:56:33] ksinvest : j8: how do you calculate <code>fair basis</code>?
[2015-08-25 22:56:58] j8 : they just set it manually based on bitmex markets
[2015-08-25 22:57:24] j8 : but it only gets updated occasionally
[2015-08-25 23:00:06] j8 : not my favourite system, i'd like to see something that doesn't require manual intervention
[2015-08-25 23:01:40] ksinvest : me too, but i understand it's a tricky process, we just need at least a road map for things like this
[2015-08-25 23:03:16] j8 : yeah, i see these things as a way to bootstrap liquidity for a high leverage product. if there was actual liquidity then you could get rid of the whole mark price thing.
[2015-08-25 23:04:23] ksinvest : true, that might as well only be a matter of time
[2015-08-25 23:11:41] ksinvest : so more liquidity = less risk free profits for liquidity provision = lower risk free interest rate (makes sense for me)
[2015-08-25 23:12:08] ksinvest : = start market making here
[2015-08-25 23:13:16] ksinvest : i'm now at 42.04%, about 1% per day (not risk free)
[2015-08-25 23:30:44] j8 : solid.
[2015-08-25 23:33:49] j8 : `BVOL7D` still climbing, bitstamp has higher volatility it seems.
[2015-08-25 23:42:04] lockhedge : small 10 Dollar bot (Account Valance: 0.030 XBT) 7.5% ROE in about 3 weeks
[2015-08-25 23:42:51] lockhedge : <code>Account Balance: 0.0430 XBT</code> (start: 0.04)
[2015-08-25 23:44:43] lockhedge : 10 dollar bot and the main bot (ksinvest) do not share any data, they often compete to be on the top of the order book