This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2016-06-15 12:18:47] BitMEX_Sam : Death: Do you want me to discuss account details here or via email?
[2016-06-15 12:19:12] Death : Here
[2016-06-15 12:19:14] stf28 : BitMEX_Sam: yes, and why is that 1 btc not mine after all
[2016-06-15 12:19:20] BitMEX_Sam : stf28: https://www.bitmex.com/app/dynamicProfitEqualisation#contract-settlement-rebalance
[2016-06-15 12:19:24] Death : :)
[2016-06-15 12:19:28] BitMEX_Sam : Death: You shorted at a price $10 below the last rebalance price
[2016-06-15 12:19:37] Death : Yeah so ?
[2016-06-15 12:19:50] BitMEX_Sam : So if you're wondering why you're at a loss, that's why
[2016-06-15 12:19:59] Death : If it goes own 20 now?
[2016-06-15 12:20:04] Death : Down
[2016-06-15 12:20:07] BitMEX_Sam : Then you would be in profit
[2016-06-15 12:20:07] BitMEX_Wally : You'll make it back and more
[2016-06-15 12:20:22] stf28 : BitMEX_Sam: thanks for your explanations this doesn't tell me why instant losses, witheld profit
[2016-06-15 12:20:36] Death : The point is did i get liquidated ?
[2016-06-15 12:20:49] BitMEX_Sam : stf28: As the doc states, profit is withheld because there may be a total system loss before rebalance time
[2016-06-15 12:20:52] BitMEX_Sam : At rebalance profit is realised.
[2016-06-15 12:20:55] BitMEX_Sam : Death: No
[2016-06-15 12:21:07] stf28 : how can you lose MY bitcoin that was not profit
[2016-06-15 12:21:08] BitMEX_Sam : At rebalance, which was 20 minutes ago, unrealised PNL becomes realised
[2016-06-15 12:21:10] stf28 : but MINE
[2016-06-15 12:21:13] Death : Pfff... @stf28 has a point though
[2016-06-15 12:21:21] BitMEX_Sam : stf28: I'm not sure what you're getting at
[2016-06-15 12:21:26] BitMEX_Wally : Your profit is someone else's loss
[2016-06-15 12:21:34] BitMEX_Wally : how do you know they are not bankrupt?
[2016-06-15 12:21:34] stf28 : not profit, my wallet
[2016-06-15 12:21:39] Death : Why no rebalance of lose?
[2016-06-15 12:21:46] Death : Thats what he means
[2016-06-15 12:21:56] Death : Its either one or the other for pl
[2016-06-15 12:22:10] BitMEX_Wally : Realised PNL for the current rebalance interval goes into the wallet and is then immediately withheld until rebalance
[2016-06-15 12:22:19] stf28 : I bring 1 btc, win 2 btc, lose 1 and can't trade anymore even if i brought 1 btc
[2016-06-15 12:22:40] BitMEX_Wally : On the same instrument?
[2016-06-15 12:22:43] stf28 : BitMEX_Wally: yeah, why are you taking my bitcoin in your fund?
[2016-06-15 12:22:50] BitMEX_Wally : We're not
[2016-06-15 12:22:53] stf28 : yeah on the same instrument, as said twice before
[2016-06-15 12:23:05] BitMEX_Wally : It has been withheld, not taken
[2016-06-15 12:23:19] stf28 : witheld in this case means you can't use it
[2016-06-15 12:23:21] BitMEX_Wally : If there is 0% DPE you get it all unlocked at rebalance
[2016-06-15 12:23:36] BitMEX_Sam : You can't use it *right away*, but it is unlocked to you after a short time
[2016-06-15 12:23:47] stf28 : yes, but in the meantime i can't use it even if i didn't lose it
[2016-06-15 12:23:52] stf28 : BitMEX_Sam: short time???
[2016-06-15 12:23:55] stf28 : you kidding
[2016-06-15 12:24:04] stf28 : 8 hours isn't short time in market trading
[2016-06-15 12:24:13] stf28 : especially when it's free money
[2016-06-15 12:24:15] BitMEX_Sam : 1 day is short in these time spans, OKC unlocks in 7 days
[2016-06-15 12:24:38] stf28 : yeah you have nice comparison
[2016-06-15 12:25:10] stf28 : compare to the worst stealers and front runners in this business isn't good i think
[2016-06-15 12:25:33] stf28 : why don't you tell me "even mtgox froze it for months so be happy"
[2016-06-15 12:25:48] BitMEX_Sam : Because we didn't steal it, it is yours after a day and the terms are clearly outlined in the docs
[2016-06-15 12:26:04] yerb : BitMEX_Sam: i dont have an option for clef in my acc setting
[2016-06-15 12:26:16] BitMEX_Sam : yerb: Do you have a different 2FA option set up?
[2016-06-15 12:26:32] stf28 : BitMEX_Sam: so that's your answer here?
[2016-06-15 12:26:40] stf28 : rtfm ?
[2016-06-15 12:26:45] BitMEX_Sam : stf28: The answer is that this is how the contract works and it is very clear in the documentation
[2016-06-15 12:26:47] Death : Realised Pnl is locked?
[2016-06-15 12:26:53] BitMEX_Sam : Every high leverage crypto exchange has a caveat that makes the high leverage possible
[2016-06-15 12:27:02] BitMEX_Sam : It is the trader's responsibility to read the contract specifications
[2016-06-15 12:27:27] BitMEX_Wally : If you have 2 Bitcoin realised PNL (during this rebalance period) and 1 Bitcoin unrealised PNL then the 2 Bitcoin profit are withheld but your net exposure to DPE is 1 Bitcoin
[2016-06-15 12:27:32] yerb : BitMEX_Sam: yeag google 2fa
[2016-06-15 12:27:51] BitMEX_Sam : yerb: You can only have one 2fa option set up at a time, so you would need to disable Google Authenticator first.
[2016-06-15 12:28:07] Death : So i cant make the same money back?
[2016-06-15 12:28:36] Death : Now that funds are in realised pnl?
[2016-06-15 12:28:38] stf28 : BitMEX_Wally: isn'nt it nice to pay for the others with money that's not involved
[2016-06-15 12:28:41] BitMEX_Sam : Death: Realised PNL during a rebalance period is withheld until the end of the session after which point in time it is released to you
[2016-06-15 12:28:56] BitMEX_Sam : stf28: If you have a loss on a contract it is no longer your money
[2016-06-15 12:29:09] BitMEX_Sam : If you have a profit, it is your money, it just is held for a period due to the risk of systemic loss
[2016-06-15 12:29:15] Death : Is my position still total contracts?
[2016-06-15 12:29:16] stf28 : bring 1, win 2, lose 1, i still have 1 no?
[2016-06-15 12:29:21] BitMEX_Sam : No
[2016-06-15 12:29:37] BitMEX_Sam : You have 1 and 1 pending, you will have 2 available at the next rebalance
[2016-06-15 12:29:59] yerb : BitMEX_Sam: ok, maybe it would be good if you add some text like: "You must disable current 2FA if you want to use other 2FA options."
[2016-06-15 12:29:59] stf28 : yes it's clear
[2016-06-15 12:30:13] BitMEX_Sam : Death: Yes your position does not change at rebalance, only your realised PNL
[2016-06-15 12:30:17] stf28 : my money isn't my money anymore
[2016-06-15 12:30:29] stf28 : as soon as i deposit it here and trade with it
[2016-06-15 12:30:45] stf28 : you assume the 1 i'm losing is the one i bought, not the one i lost
[2016-06-15 12:31:08] BitMEX_Sam : It is always netted during a period
[2016-06-15 12:31:15] BitMEX_Sam : Profit 2, loss 1, you have profited 1
[2016-06-15 12:31:27] BitMEX_Sam : That profit is within a certain time period, and after the rebalance threshold, it is unlocked
[2016-06-15 12:31:40] stf28 : same answer here, nice rhtoric
[2016-06-15 12:31:42] Mr Blue : stf28: dude if your up 1 BTC why you complaining, just wait till 12pm tomorrow lol
[2016-06-15 12:31:52] stf28 : lol
[2016-06-15 12:32:02] stf28 : yeah win and shut up, lose and complain
[2016-06-15 12:32:03] BitMEX_Sam : It's not "rhetoric", it is how the contract works, it is very clear and outlined in the docs, and we are not stealing your money
[2016-06-15 12:32:36] Death : So if i make 5 btc on a trade and close ig profit differs ?
[2016-06-15 12:32:43] stf28 : no of course, you are just keeping me from using it when the position may be favorable for the exchange, during this you margin call traders and wait for next rebalance
[2016-06-15 12:32:57] Death : stf28: correct
[2016-06-15 12:33:03] stf28 : it's clearly stated in the manual
[2016-06-15 12:33:19] BitMEX_Wally : 50% of realised PNL is unlocked every 8 hours
[2016-06-15 12:33:34] BitMEX_Wally : so in 7.5 hours you'll get 1 Bitcoin unlocked
[2016-06-15 12:33:48] stf28 : Death: seen it a lot here
[2016-06-15 12:34:22] stf28 : it reminds me of btc24 a lost exchange of the bitcoin world which refused to show wallet balance on trade history
[2016-06-15 12:34:44] stf28 : the day they showed it guy was escaping leaving the exchange to hackers
[2016-06-15 12:34:47] BitMEX_Wally : We are adding it
[2016-06-15 12:34:51] BitMEX_Wally : with full history
[2016-06-15 12:35:09] stf28 : yes i'm curious to see how you will manage to have right numbers there
[2016-06-15 12:35:24] stf28 : is bitmex audited in any way ?
[2016-06-15 12:35:25] Death : What licenses do u guys have and where are u established?
[2016-06-15 12:35:49] BitMEX_Wally : You can export all trade history and just sum up the execCost and execComm for each rebalance session and you will get the CashRebalance number you see in your wallet history
[2016-06-15 12:35:58] Mr Blue : BitMEX_Wally: lmao I feel for you mate
[2016-06-15 12:36:20] stf28 : BitMEX_Wally: is your exchange audited?
[2016-06-15 12:36:35] stf28 : like serious ones do?
[2016-06-15 12:36:43] BitMEX_Wally : BitMEX accounts were audited by a CPA last month
[2016-06-15 12:36:57] stf28 : can you please link me to conclusions of this audit?
[2016-06-15 12:37:10] stf28 : how is that hard for you great coders to show a simple number in the trade history ?
[2016-06-15 12:37:39] aethlios : stf28: tell a crypto exchange that is audited.
[2016-06-15 12:37:44] stf28 : kraken
[2016-06-15 12:37:49] stf28 : for example
[2016-06-15 12:38:00] aethlios : stf28: from where it is audited?
[2016-06-15 12:38:00] BitMEX_Wally : None are audited but some release proof of funds
[2016-06-15 12:38:02] j8 : stf28: i've traded here for over a year and have audited my own account, it checks out. don't take my word for it, all the data is there. maybe not the easiest to understand, it's there though
[2016-06-15 12:38:14] BitMEX_Wally : but we have multisig so it is hard to do a merkel tree proof
[2016-06-15 12:38:46] BitMEX_Sam : Additionally the trading engine does full auditing of all accounts many times a second
[2016-06-15 12:38:51] stf28 : j8: nice for you, mine doesn't + owners behavior + long experience in this field tells me something's wrong
[2016-06-15 12:39:01] stf28 : BitMEX_Sam: that's a proof of nothing
[2016-06-15 12:39:34] stf28 : i understand it's hard to run high leverage platforms
[2016-06-15 12:39:42] j8 : you are probably misunderstanding something, it's not exactly simple
[2016-06-15 12:39:56] BitMEX_Wally : stf28: if you have a concern please email us and I will show you to the last Satoshi how every calculation in your account is correct
[2016-06-15 12:39:57] arbitrage001 : rules are simple
[2016-06-15 12:40:04] arbitrage001 : if you dont trust the exchange, dont use it
[2016-06-15 12:40:11] lockhedge : stf28: python script to calculate your PNL, funding and commission Income http://pastebin.com/6wz8KNdm
[2016-06-15 12:40:22] lockhedge : some code stolen from Sam
[2016-06-15 12:40:27] stf28 : BitMEX_Wally: nice why don't you take this time to make the wallet balance appear in trade history instead?
[2016-06-15 12:40:32] aethlios : stf28: crypto's are based in trust, it is not the same as fiat world. do you trust your bank? why audited banks go bankrupt? why subprime bonds had AAA???
[2016-06-15 12:40:48] BitMEX_Wally : I told you we're going to add PNL to the trade history
[2016-06-15 12:41:59] stf28 : lockhedge: thanks dude
[2016-06-15 12:42:06] BitMEX_Wally : As you know, withdrawals affect wallet balance, but withdrawals are not trades, so it would be meaningless to add wallet balance to trade history
[2016-06-15 12:42:15] stf28 : BitMEX_Wally: no PNL, wallet BALANCE
[2016-06-15 12:42:34] stf28 : onl is wrong
[2016-06-15 12:42:47] BitMEX_Wally : Your wallet balance is the sum of deposits minus withdrawals plus Realised PNL
[2016-06-15 12:42:50] stf28 : you told me few eeks ago that there are problems with it
[2016-06-15 12:43:00] BitMEX_Wally : What problem?
[2016-06-15 12:43:28] stf28 : i don't know, you told me to rely on my trades and not on these numbers
[2016-06-15 12:43:42] BitMEX_Wally : If your trade history includes wallet balance but the wallet balance can randomly change due to wallet transactions, how are you going know it is correct?
[2016-06-15 12:43:43] stf28 : you didn't say what problem, just that it's not working as it should
[2016-06-15 12:44:11] stf28 : BitMEX_Wally: are you implying that if i add wallet and trade history i won't make it?
[2016-06-15 12:44:41] BitMEX_Wally : ?
[2016-06-15 12:45:00] stf28 : randomly ?
[2016-06-15 12:45:15] stf28 : how is that random ?
[2016-06-15 12:45:44] gustavo7 : short 674 in profit now? how?
[2016-06-15 12:45:55] BitMEX_Wally : all PNL is ultimately decided by trades. The rebalance price and the mark price can vary so I probably told you to ignore your CashRebalance transaction as a measure of the profit of a trade.
[2016-06-15 12:46:08] stf28 : aethlios: thanks, i trust noone in crypto
[2016-06-15 12:46:46] stf28 : google btc24 to know what's next
[2016-06-15 12:46:53] stf28 : i have to leave
[2016-06-15 12:47:22] BitMEX_Wally : Yoy want a wallet balance history on the trade history, but the wallet balance is affected by more than trades, so it would be a meaningless number that would not help you verify the trades
[2016-06-15 12:47:34] 3aum : i keep getting these margin call warnings
[2016-06-15 12:47:44] 3aum : but my position in 1x leverage
[2016-06-15 12:48:00] BitMEX_Wally : stf28: If you cannot understand our system and do not trust us, then please trade elsewhere
[2016-06-15 12:48:00] 3aum : liquidation price on the short is like 140k
[2016-06-15 12:48:15] Mr Blue : 3aum: you sure your not on cross? That takes from margin or something
[2016-06-15 12:48:22] BitMEX_Wally : 3aum: Sam emailed you?
[2016-06-15 12:48:28] aethlios : stf28: that's not bad, that's why we diversify, I use 4 exchanges, so don't have all eggs in one basket, also we trade in crypto because returns are high and compensate for the counterparty risk. Because of no regulation this market has a quick development. regulations delay development and make it expensive.
[2016-06-15 12:48:32] 3aum : so i am on 1x
[2016-06-15 12:48:41] 3aum : not cross, and sam did emai me, but i'm still getting these notifications
[2016-06-15 12:48:56] 3aum : it happens when i try to use up the available balance to 0
[2016-06-15 12:48:56] BitMEX_Wally : 3aum: those emails were sent in error and Sam already fixed it
[2016-06-15 12:49:08] BitMEX_Wally : you even replied to the email so I am sure you know this
[2016-06-15 12:49:16] 3aum : right, but i'm saying it is still happening
[2016-06-15 12:49:25] 3aum : he said it shouldn't happen anymore right?
[2016-06-15 12:49:38] BitMEX_Wally : I will investigate
[2016-06-15 12:49:49] BitMEX_Wally : My apologies
[2016-06-15 12:50:10] 3aum : no problem. i understand its just a glitch, but its a bit scary
[2016-06-15 12:50:11] 3aum : haha
[2016-06-15 12:51:54] BitMEX_Wally : Margin call only refers to open orders being canceled. Liquidation is solely decided by the liquidiation price
[2016-06-15 12:52:09] 3aum : oh ok, i see
[2016-06-15 12:53:06] BitMEX_Wally : Open orders at 1x require to be 100% margined at the current price
[2016-06-15 12:53:48] 3aum : ok, that makes sense now.
[2016-06-15 12:53:50] 3aum : thanks
[2016-06-15 12:53:53] BitMEX_Wally : So as the mark price varies, the open orders might get canceled
[2016-06-15 12:54:04] 3aum : yep. gotcha. thanks wally
[2016-06-15 12:54:07] BitMEX_Wally : we will fix the wording of the enail
[2016-06-15 12:54:22] BitMEX_Wally : Sorry for the confusion
[2016-06-15 12:54:34] aethlios : BitMEX_Wally: Hello Wally, are you planning to keep the long term contracts? If yes think to add a 1 year quanto also. 3m, 6m, 12m, this will create an 1 year yield curve for btc and traders could bet on the slope.
[2016-06-15 12:55:31] arbitrage001 : aethlios: long term contract do not have the liquidity
[2016-06-15 12:55:50] BitMEX_Sam : 3aum: I'm not seeing that one of these has been sent to you for 2 days, can you confirm?
[2016-06-15 12:56:41] BTCDJS : Is sleger known as collin crypto on twitter?
[2016-06-15 12:56:48] 3aum : you are correct sam. the ones that happened just now were not emailed, just notifications on the website.
[2016-06-15 12:56:52] gustavo7 : ah so my realised PNL has gone down and my unrealised up
[2016-06-15 12:57:01] aethlios : arbitrage001: you can make nice strategies with them and swap. you can bet on the slope of the curve.
[2016-06-15 12:57:04] BitMEX_Sam : 3aum: Ah yes. That is normal.
[2016-06-15 12:57:33] arbitrage001 : aethlios: yes.but when market move and there is no way to close 50k contract
[2016-06-15 12:57:38] 3aum : Thanks sam. wally explained it to me. glad you guys are in the channel to answer our dumb questions.
[2016-06-15 12:57:39] arbitrage001 : what do you do?
[2016-06-15 12:57:53] BTCDJS : Rapidtrades: Is sleger known as collin crypto on twitter?
[2016-06-15 12:58:37] aethlios : arbitrage001: you can place your order in a favorable price for the opposite side how opened the trade with you.
[2016-06-15 12:59:05] arbitrage001 : BTCDJS: why you think collin cryto is slegar?
[2016-06-15 12:59:55] arbitrage001 : aethlios: and if there is a large margin call and price keeps moving futher away
[2016-06-15 12:59:57] BTCDJS : arbitrage001: because there is an old tweet where colin crypto said he got REKT and someone replied: "Poor Sleger"
[2016-06-15 13:01:27] arbitrage001 : BTCDJS: have link on that post?
[2016-06-15 13:01:38] BTCDJS : two secs
[2016-06-15 13:02:37] BTCDJS : arbitrage001:https://twitter.com/wurstgelee/status/736685740483084289
[2016-06-15 13:03:07] BitMEX_Sam : I think that was just a joke.
[2016-06-15 13:07:48] BTCDJS : could be
[2016-06-15 13:34:07] wurstgelee : of it was a joke
[2016-06-15 13:34:12] wurstgelee : *ofc
[2016-06-15 13:34:40] BTCDJS : wurstgelee: oh it was you
[2016-06-15 13:34:43] wurstgelee : yep :)
[2016-06-15 13:35:07] BTCDJS : shit joke
[2016-06-15 13:35:13] BTCDJS : :)
[2016-06-15 13:35:51] wurstgelee : more of a running gag. i automatically assume it's leger when a large position gets liquidated
[2016-06-15 13:35:52] wurstgelee : for no reason
[2016-06-15 13:36:02] wurstgelee : *sleger
[2016-06-15 13:36:38] BTCDJS : the man is starting to become a legend
[2016-06-15 13:37:42] BTCDJS : wurstgelee: collin crypto wants to buy REP. Just needed to know if I was dealing with sleger or not
[2016-06-15 13:38:06] stf28 : BitMEX_Wally: thanks for assuming i can't understand your system
[2016-06-15 13:38:11] j8 : sleger doesn't want to buy alts, i can tell you that
[2016-06-15 13:38:13] stf28 : believe me i understand it
[2016-06-15 13:38:58] stf28 : and you should be pleased i try to convince myself i can trade here
[2016-06-15 13:39:37] stf28 : but all the answers to wrong behavior are RTFM, but how can I trade on a contract on which terms evolve freely without notice
[2016-06-15 13:41:06] stf28 : i wouldn't mean "without notice" as you send a lot of notifications recently, like 7am for a contract change 1 hour after
[2016-06-15 13:42:32] j8 : stf28: that is a real issue, we've all been on their case for making sudden changes. they've said they will give notice and settle the contract and launch a new one next time
[2016-06-15 13:43:59] stf28 : and what? did they make something about it? @j8
[2016-06-15 13:45:51] stf28 : all this system is based on the assumption that losses are instant whereas profit is witheld, even with "sophisticated" specifications based upon "fair price" to hide that they're clearly taking advantage upon traders here
[2016-06-15 13:48:27] j8 : that's not what i'm talking about. and no, they're not taking advantage of traders.
[2016-06-15 13:49:54] stf28 : how is that? didn't they banned the big wall guy? didn't they change the contracts specifications without due notice? didn't they empty the insurance fund?
[2016-06-15 13:50:17] stf28 : how can you say that they aren't ? because you make profit?
[2016-06-15 13:50:20] j8 : what big wall guy
[2016-06-15 13:50:46] j8 : they did change the contract with very little notice. that pissed a lot of people off
[2016-06-15 13:51:06] j8 : the insurance fund was spent to clear liquidations. that's how a socialized loss system works
[2016-06-15 13:51:08] stf28 : few days ago hundreds of thousands of contracts were used to f** up the liquidations
[2016-06-15 13:52:15] stf28 : do you assume this is correct behaviour to notify traders this way?
[2016-06-15 13:53:04] stf28 : does this make you trust in owners?
[2016-06-15 13:53:40] j8 : read these if you haven't, https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/4nrpof/bitmexs_perpetual_xbt_swap_product_struggles/
[2016-06-15 13:53:47] j8 : https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/4nv2cd/bitmexs_response_to_xbtusd_swap_concerns/
[2016-06-15 13:54:00] zanza : is sleger back yet?
[2016-06-15 13:55:36] stf28 : yes basically is the same answers as in trollbox
[2016-06-15 13:55:53] stf28 : RTFM, DPE, fair price
[2016-06-15 13:56:07] j8 : honestly i've had a lot of respect for the bitmex guys over the last year and a half. i think they messed up pretty bad with the launch of this swap though. it's getting to be a better product, but the launch and changes and poor communication were an issue
[2016-06-15 13:56:36] stf28 : someone just told me they make verification s "multiple times per second"
[2016-06-15 13:57:14] stf28 : isn't it nice? they verify everything multiple times per second yet they can manage a contract which nearly 2 million dollars were lost ?
[2016-06-15 13:57:43] j8 : dunno where the 2 million dollars came from
[2016-06-15 13:58:03] zanza : If Sleger was long 1000 BTC, then he must have made a killing the past month anyways
[2016-06-15 13:58:12] stf28 : your links, arthur's answer : "d. By Sunday morning Asia time, we had $1.8 million worth of short orders that needed to be closed in the market"
[2016-06-15 13:58:16] zanza : it is really worth getting upset over $10 discrepency ?
[2016-06-15 13:58:52] stf28 : how can an exchange owner verify everything "multiple times per second" yet can let this kind of losses happen ?
[2016-06-15 13:58:58] j8 : 1.8 million is the notional value of the position, the system losses were far less
[2016-06-15 13:59:42] stf28 : j8: wouldn't you be worried to see these numbers when you check your products behavior?
[2016-06-15 13:59:52] j8 : of course
[2016-06-15 13:59:54] zanza : it just means people got liquidated and Bitmex took over those positions which caused DPE
[2016-06-15 14:00:29] j8 : for a long time i've argued that the swap had a really high risk of DPE
[2016-06-15 14:01:14] stf28 : zanza: yes, why did they let this happen? it f** everyone, and right after they change the contract f** everyone a second time in less than 48hours
[2016-06-15 14:01:15] j8 : i just think the product was poorly designed, not that they were stealing from people
[2016-06-15 14:01:53] stf28 : j8: to be dumb is not a reason to make traders assume all the losses and exchange all the profit
[2016-06-15 14:02:11] BitMEX_Sam : stf28: The confusion you're having has nothing to do with the swap product, it has everything to do with the DPE system which has been in place for almost a year, and your account has been active for even longer
[2016-06-15 14:02:29] BitMEX_Sam : That system has not fundamentally changed, except to allow more profit unlocking, since inception
[2016-06-15 14:02:48] BitMEX_Sam : As for us "taking all the profit", trades here are strictly peer-to-peer, we don't take any of the profit. We make money from fees alone.
[2016-06-15 14:03:12] zanza : Slegers problem was, they increased the interest rate, which lowered the price. Since he was long 1000 BTC, it cost him money he says
[2016-06-15 14:03:37] zanza : when the price lowered $12, however since the instrument was trading way above spote, we had to expect this woudl happen
[2016-06-15 14:03:53] BitMEX_Sam : In this case, as the system has not changed fundamentally since inception, and is in many ways functionally comparable to every other socialized loss system on every other market that offers one, aside from early unlocking benefits, it is a perfectly reasonable response to say "Read the specification" when a question is about the specification
[2016-06-15 14:03:57] stf28 : BitMEX_Sam: there's no evidence, i just have to trust you on this
[2016-06-15 14:04:04] BitMEX_Sam : There is plenty of evidence, pull your account history
[2016-06-15 14:04:13] BitMEX_Sam : You don't have to trust me at all.
[2016-06-15 14:04:33] stf28 : "rades here are strictly peer-to-peer, we don't take any of the profit."
[2016-06-15 14:04:54] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 59340 @ 685.25 **EPIC REKT** :unamused: :confounded: :astonished:
[2016-06-15 14:04:58] stf28 : i understand it's hard to run this kind of platform
[2016-06-15 14:05:21] BitMEX_Sam : stf28: You are seeing things that are not there. You can make any allegations you wish but be prepared to back them up with evidence.
[2016-06-15 14:05:41] BitMEX_Sam : Pull your account history if you have any question about the math.
[2016-06-15 14:05:47] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 1600 @ 685.69
[2016-06-15 14:05:47] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 17252 @ 685.62
[2016-06-15 14:06:06] BitMEX_Sam : If you have any questions about how DPE works, read the doc. If there are gaps in your understanding and you are unable to understand after a thorough reading, I and the other users will help you understand the system.
[2016-06-15 14:06:11] stf28 : i have no question about maths, i could teach you some if you need better management
[2016-06-15 14:06:21] BitMEX_Sam : If you wish to be a troll, I suggest you simply trade elsewhere.
[2016-06-15 14:06:32] stf28 : i like your answers more and more
[2016-06-15 14:06:57] Yumi : Hey troll not wanted in the trollbox
[2016-06-15 14:07:28] luckynuke : I <3 bulls
[2016-06-15 14:07:46] BTCDJS : we love you too
[2016-06-15 14:07:55] luckynuke : wow
[2016-06-15 14:08:00] luckynuke : love in the air
[2016-06-15 14:08:03] Yumi : The changes on swap were good in the long term
[2016-06-15 14:08:14] zanza : yeah no DPE since changes
[2016-06-15 14:08:42] Yumi : Make it better a product
[2016-06-15 14:08:43] BTCDJS : luckynuke: if you went to a party and woke up the next morning with a condom stuck in your ass, Would you tell anyone?
[2016-06-15 14:09:05] stf28 : BitMEX_Sam: there are no "gaps in my understanding"... how can you play "superior" as you clearly state that "product was poorly designed"
[2016-06-15 14:09:14] luckynuke : lol dont go to any parties
[2016-06-15 14:09:21] BTCDJS : camping?
[2016-06-15 14:10:08] BTCDJS : hypothetically? would you tell anyone or keep it to yourself? @luckynuke
[2016-06-15 14:10:16] stf28 : don't you know what's happening here? it's bitcoin it's not a relatively low volatility product
[2016-06-15 14:11:06] luckynuke : BTCDJS: that´s a hard question, i can´t imagine that. But i think i would ask somebody what happened
[2016-06-15 14:11:11] stf28 : so clearly i need no evidence to tell that this trading instrument needs some tuning
[2016-06-15 14:11:32] BTCDJS : luckynuke: would you tell your friends?
[2016-06-15 14:11:44] BTCDJS : yes or no
[2016-06-15 14:11:53] stf28 : as there is no simple arbitrage possible this will happen again soon
[2016-06-15 14:12:13] luckynuke : BTCDJS: i dont think so. I wouldnt state with it
[2016-06-15 14:12:20] stf28 : even with large insurance fund, like okc did 2 years ago
[2016-06-15 14:12:21] zanza : stf28: even OKC has clawback, also they use cascading market orders I think which can cas big volatility
[2016-06-15 14:12:24] BTCDJS : wanna come to a party?
[2016-06-15 14:12:29] BTCDJS : lol
[2016-06-15 14:12:45] luckynuke : BTCDJS: lol no
[2016-06-15 14:12:56] Yumi : stf28: only bitmex fault was to give too short notice on changes, but if you read Arthur's post it was necessary to act quick to avoid huge dpe
[2016-06-15 14:12:59] luckynuke : BTCDJS: what would you do ?
[2016-06-15 14:13:09] BTCDJS : thats an old joke. I can't believe you never heard it before
[2016-06-15 14:13:32] BTCDJS : well I said no. and got invited to a party
[2016-06-15 14:13:38] stf28 : Yumi: if i read it I understand what he said, but can't you imagine others solutions to this?
[2016-06-15 14:14:00] luckynuke : BTCDJS: stupid joke lol
[2016-06-15 14:14:03] BTCDJS : BRB
[2016-06-15 14:14:13] zanza : what would be other solution stf28?
[2016-06-15 14:14:31] zanza : the XBT was trading at $10+ premium to spot
[2016-06-15 14:14:42] Yumi : Product's design was faulty for market condition we had, it had to be fixed
[2016-06-15 14:14:50] elmorte : What's stf28 tl;dr anyone...DPE?
[2016-06-15 14:15:06] zanza : I don't think faulty is the right word
[2016-06-15 14:15:18] 3aum : i only joined this site a few days ago. when was the perpetual swap started?
[2016-06-15 14:15:27] zanza : 3 weeks ago 3aum
[2016-06-15 14:15:52] stf28 : market condition hasn't changed, bitcoin is known to be high volatility +/- 100$ in one day, people like j8 know this so they stated that dpe fund won't be enough, yet traders agreed the contract so they agreed to be f**
[2016-06-15 14:16:38] Yumi : Anyway after the announcement the premium collapsed but it went back up to +$10 after
[2016-06-15 14:16:46] luckynuke : china is on the road to 700%
[2016-06-15 14:18:17] Yumi : So unless you closed long during initial premium collapse you weren't affected
[2016-06-15 14:19:55] Yumi : And the swap in current form is much more tradable
[2016-06-15 14:20:37] stf28 : zanza: others solution would have been to prevent this instead of acting after.
[2016-06-15 14:21:04] stf28 : but they always act after the losses are made "to not interfere with trading"
[2016-06-15 14:21:15] stf28 : making the trades meaningless anyway
[2016-06-15 14:23:36] zanza : I think their mistake was to copy Bitfnex rates which was bad idea
[2016-06-15 14:23:52] Mr Blue : 3aum: perpetual swap times ten lev is one I like to use, I think years as they once had x100 leverage on it, now only product with x100 is Bitcoin yen, but who doesn't like shorting Japan lol
[2016-06-15 14:23:56] stf28 : BitMEX_Sam: btw not trolling at all, can you make the pnl, realised, unrealised, and wallet balance appear in a complete trade/wallet history ?
[2016-06-15 14:24:28] stf28 : this would be the best "explanation" you can give to me :)
[2016-06-15 14:25:36] stf28 : why is that so hard? two different tables? if that's hard for you coders, how can i trust your maths?
[2016-06-15 14:26:47] Mr Blue : stf28: if you only use x5 leverage you have a good $100 margin before liquidation
[2016-06-15 14:27:04] stf28 : of course @Mr Blue , for this i can go elsewhere
[2016-06-15 14:27:12] stf28 : Mr Blue: thanks for advice
[2016-06-15 14:27:30] rentchev : j8: in the history of BitMEX was there ever an instance of losses needed to be socialized?
[2016-06-15 14:27:41] j8 : yeah that's what DPE is
[2016-06-15 14:27:43] Mr Blue : stf28: okay sorry mate was just trying to help lol
[2016-06-15 14:28:03] rentchev : Yes, but how does this affect me?
[2016-06-15 14:28:16] rentchev : I haven't seen anything in my account
[2016-06-15 14:28:56] lockhedge : BitMEX_Sam: it might make sense to add "profit adjustment" to the trade history to make calculations easier. like funding it's not a trade but it affects pnl
[2016-06-15 14:30:07] stf28 : Mr Blue: np, i just want to bring serious money here cause of this high leverage and reverse fees for market making, but "bitmex_team" answers here clearly discourages me from going further
[2016-06-15 14:30:55] stf28 : if a guy with 800 btc position can lose thousands because of exchange owners decisions i won't even bring 1 btc
[2016-06-15 14:31:53] stf28 : lockhedge: do you understand why it hasn't been done since begining?
[2016-06-15 14:32:08] stf28 : i mean showing true numbers
[2016-06-15 14:32:15] Boontjie : The DPE affects you when are liquidated
[2016-06-15 14:32:51] Boontjie : So if you are long and the mark price hits your liquidation position, you are liquidated
[2016-06-15 14:33:01] Boontjie : liquidation price*
[2016-06-15 14:33:15] Mr Blue : stf28: I understand you mate, I first deposited 0.1 BTC till I got comfortable , but if you want to earn real money you need at least two BTC at x5 / x10 leverage, then once you get to 4 just withdraw two and your playing with free money, truest if something that's earned, earned with profits hopefully lol
[2016-06-15 14:33:18] Boontjie : The premium is then transferred to/from the fund
[2016-06-15 14:33:28] Samirum : stf28: you're making a lot of noise because of your stupid trades
[2016-06-15 14:33:41] Mr Blue : Trust*
[2016-06-15 14:34:18] Mr Blue : Trust is something** lol damn fat fingers
[2016-06-15 14:35:21] haxmb : Where did the ETH market maker go? :/
[2016-06-15 14:35:41] Samirum : haxmb:
[2016-06-15 14:35:43] messiaen8844 : reading chat history. Increasing interest didn't lower price right away, what lowered the premium when sledger said that is that we were clearly on a local top... a few hours ago premium was back, even with the higher interest
[2016-06-15 14:37:51] messiaen8844 : he is right to be mad at the short notice change, but I don't buy his claim that it affected price right way
[2016-06-15 14:38:34] j8 : there is a point in the chat history where i say, "the Central Bank of BitMEX has spoken. sell!"
[2016-06-15 14:39:06] j8 : they made it clear that the premium would be destroyed by massive interest. a lot of people sold
[2016-06-15 14:39:18] lockhedge : stf28: there is wallet history, settlement history and trade history. so nothing is hidden. it's just not in the same table, which lead to confusion and time consuming discussions.
[2016-06-15 14:39:54] j8 : the premium did dump from $10 to 0. the next day it was back
[2016-06-15 14:40:21] messiaen8844 : yes, but also price was in a bad point
[2016-06-15 14:41:00] messiaen8844 : premium seems to be a bad market maker algo also
[2016-06-15 14:42:17] stf28 : lockhedge: yes nothing is hidden, but on my account unrealised pnl has nothing to do with my trades
[2016-06-15 14:42:35] stf28 : since last time i traded here like 6 months ago
[2016-06-15 14:42:51] elmorte : You could argue the sleger thing either way. You wouldn't feel it unless you were in his shoes
[2016-06-15 14:43:38] elmorte : But he probably wears loafers
[2016-06-15 14:43:59] stf28 : lockhedge: anyway thanks for helping
[2016-06-15 14:45:10] j8 : there were some people who saw that the interest was low and figured the premium could keep rising. if it was allowed to trade freely given the contract specs that might have been the case
[2016-06-15 14:46:12] j8 : other people were betting on bitmex stepping in or something changing to destroy the premium, since it was supposed to track spot
[2016-06-15 14:47:14] BTCDJS : Boontjie: what kind of bean are you?
[2016-06-15 14:51:02] Boontjie : A small one
[2016-06-15 14:56:12] BTCDJS : Boontjie: you from south africa?
[2016-06-15 14:56:21] BTCDJS : or the netherlands?
[2016-06-15 15:01:03] rapidtrades : j8: i shorted cos of the large premium, i counting on it crushing down sooner or later
[2016-06-15 15:01:19] rapidtrades : that would've happened with or without the changes as interest rates spiked
[2016-06-15 15:01:42] rentchev : agreed rapidtrades
[2016-06-15 15:01:51] rentchev : I did the same at $703
[2016-06-15 15:01:57] rapidtrades : and the market calmed down....this was likely primary driver
[2016-06-15 15:02:10] rentchev : would have made money regardless of interest
[2016-06-15 15:02:18] rentchev : but made more because of interest
[2016-06-15 15:02:32] j8 : bitfinex rates never got that high compared to the rates we had after the changes
[2016-06-15 15:02:39] rapidtrades : if we go nuts agaiin with $50-$100 dollar gains u'll see that crazy $10 premium again, despite the changes
[2016-06-15 15:02:55] rapidtrades : j8: right it was primarily the change in market sentiment
[2016-06-15 15:04:01] j8 : yeah, the big premium will be self correcting though.. at that point the mark price will be higher, you really need to consider the premium over mark plus the funding rate
[2016-06-15 15:04:22] Boontjie : BTCDJS: South Africa
[2016-06-15 15:05:12] BTCDJS : Cool. Im South african too. Lived in Joburg and Durban before moving to the UK
[2016-06-15 15:06:06] Boontjie : I think it was a good move. Its getting worse over time. I am from the Western Cape so we are ok, but no one else is
[2016-06-15 15:06:22] j8 : unless the market is willing to pay more than the cap which is 1.125%, or 3.375% daily
[2016-06-15 15:07:11] BTCDJS : Boontjie: why is the western cape alright? what sets it apart. Im out of touch with the news. Whats going on there?
[2016-06-15 15:07:30] Boontjie : The ruling party is not the ANC
[2016-06-15 15:07:39] BTCDJS : ah
[2016-06-15 15:07:49] rapidtrades : hehe
[2016-06-15 15:07:52] Boontjie : But everywhere else has dysfunctional municipalities
[2016-06-15 15:08:14] Boontjie : So many many service delivery protests, and well protests in general
[2016-06-15 15:08:42] Boontjie : Like Greece, but without the debt issues
[2016-06-15 15:09:06] BTCDJS : oh right yeah the eskom thing. Yeah I'm glad I moved too. They are not doing a good job there
[2016-06-15 15:09:57] boxagox : Hi guys, I'm quite new to Bitmex. I wonder how PNL is calculated. Is it calculated based on mark price or last price of the contract?
[2016-06-15 15:10:10] rapidtrades : mark
[2016-06-15 15:10:21] justinlooking : what is dog with hair lip
[2016-06-15 15:10:38] BTCDJS : justinlooking: wat?
[2016-06-15 15:11:01] rapidtrades : boxagox: but if u want to close you have to use the current orderbook price
[2016-06-15 15:12:45] boxagox : rapidtrades: Is the order triggered and executed based on last price?
[2016-06-15 15:13:13] BTCDJS : yup
[2016-06-15 15:14:11] rapidtrades : no
[2016-06-15 15:14:32] rapidtrades : boxagox: its triggered based on the bid/ask if ur dumping on the market
[2016-06-15 15:14:44] boxagox : does that mean that you need to put your position higher to compensate for the wide spread?
[2016-06-15 15:14:48] rapidtrades : u can also set a limit between bid/ask
[2016-06-15 15:15:14] rapidtrades : spread is only 30 cents right no
[2016-06-15 15:16:19] boxagox : spread seems to be around 70-80 pips
[2016-06-15 15:17:27] elmorte : boxagox: for limit orders you set the execution price. Market is on the order book
[2016-06-15 15:17:36] rapidtrades : not at a lot but u can always set a limit in between @boxagox
[2016-06-15 15:18:05] rapidtrades : like 687.4
[2016-06-15 15:25:53] BTCDJS : rapidtrades: what does OTC stand for?
[2016-06-15 15:27:21] elmorte : Over the counter
[2016-06-15 15:28:05] BTCDJS : No really
[2016-06-15 15:28:24] elmorte : Trading? Hehe, really
[2016-06-15 15:28:31] elmorte : Bypassing the exchange
[2016-06-15 15:29:32] j8 : it really stands for that, but doesn't really involve a physical counter these days
[2016-06-15 15:29:43] boxagox : rapidtrades: okay... thanks for the tips!
[2016-06-15 15:29:57] elmorte : If you're worth a lot, you don't queue with queue with the rest of us plebs
[2016-06-15 15:30:22] elmorte : Glitch in the glitch in the matrix, sorry
[2016-06-15 15:30:25] BTCDJS : Ah right.ok thanks
[2016-06-15 15:30:53] j8 : BTCDJS: are you looking at the OTC market on ok coin?
[2016-06-15 15:38:05] elmorte : Where the bids at?
[2016-06-15 15:39:34] markimarki : unrealised pnl shows what it is expected to gain or lose and realised pnl is what i have already gained with the actual contract?
[2016-06-15 15:39:38] markimarki : so far
[2016-06-15 15:41:39] BTCDJS : j8: No I'm talking to someone who mentioned OTC price and I didn't know what it stands for.
[2016-06-15 15:42:19] j8 : oh i missed that
[2016-06-15 15:42:48] BTCDJS : j8: its on another chat
[2016-06-15 15:44:49] j8 : i see. they could mean a lot of different things by that. there isn't one otc price
[2016-06-15 15:44:56] elmorte : markimarki: not expected but at current mark price
[2016-06-15 15:47:54] BTCDJS : j8: ah good to know
[2016-06-15 15:54:06] luckynuke : china above 700
[2016-06-15 16:03:02] stf28 : it will happen again
[2016-06-15 16:03:24] luckynuke : what ?
[2016-06-15 16:04:18] stf28 : above 700 and shorters wrecked
[2016-06-15 16:04:24] stf28 : ^^
[2016-06-15 16:04:34] stf28 : it's on the way look at the charts
[2016-06-15 16:05:07] luckynuke : i can see the rektosaurus
[2016-06-15 16:05:47] stf28 : let him eats us
[2016-06-15 16:09:50] rentchev : rekt will happen either way
[2016-06-15 16:09:54] rentchev : up or down
[2016-06-15 16:10:13] rentchev : not really sure why people don't use more stops
[2016-06-15 16:10:37] elmorte : stf28: how would you have them fix it? Bigger insurance fund?
[2016-06-15 16:21:23] stf28 : it has happened because some large positions were endangered, the liquidation was million contracts
[2016-06-15 16:25:30] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : How is Unrealised PNL % calculated again?
[2016-06-15 16:26:32] tscha : I wouldn't be so sure that the reason the premium is gone is the funding rate... we will see when the bull run starts again
[2016-06-15 16:27:39] elmorte : tscha: the funding rate would even it out though. Not immediately coz of the caps, but eventually as we're seeing
[2016-06-15 16:28:49] tscha : the reason it is gone is because the bull run is over
[2016-06-15 16:28:52] elmorte : IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb: Unrealized pnl is a hash of your username in base 10
[2016-06-15 16:29:02] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : Haha
[2016-06-15 16:29:53] elmorte : tscha: I don't disagree, but you can't say it wouldn't be here right now if the premium was bit introduce
[2016-06-15 16:30:00] j8 : yeah, we might have a premium for a day or two, then if that sustains there will still be a premium over spot but the mark price will be high also.
[2016-06-15 16:30:01] elmorte : Not*
[2016-06-15 16:30:03] tscha : when they introduced it and sleger complained and left because the premium was gone due to funding, the bull run took on steam and premium was again 2%-3% *despite funding rate*
[2016-06-15 16:30:19] tscha : so we will see what happens during next bull run
[2016-06-15 16:30:25] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : elmorte: 54642541961950274846351429468288541068273074606599456271930977934862686124495
[2016-06-15 16:30:31] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : Wow, that's a lot of PNL
[2016-06-15 16:30:38] elmorte : Looks about right
[2016-06-15 16:30:49] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : elmorte: Do you know what it actually is?
[2016-06-15 16:31:02] elmorte : Just gotta check if they use signed integers for direction
[2016-06-15 16:31:27] j8 : tscha: i bet the swap will be a bit more restrained on the next rally, people are slowly figuring out how to trade it
[2016-06-15 16:31:31] elmorte : Yeah, if you settled your position right now at mark price
[2016-06-15 16:32:06] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : elmorte: I understand that. I mean how is it calculated?
[2016-06-15 16:32:48] elmorte : (Entry price - mark price) x contracts
[2016-06-15 16:32:57] j8 : not true
[2016-06-15 16:33:19] j8 : well that would be your usd equivalent PNL
[2016-06-15 16:33:21] elmorte : Or what @j8 it's about to say next
[2016-06-15 16:34:16] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : I'm curious more about the percentage as displayed than the BTC or USD value. It seems high
[2016-06-15 16:34:23] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : I know I've asked before but I don't remember
[2016-06-15 16:34:42] elmorte : Oh, ROE is calculated on the funds invested i.e.your margin
[2016-06-15 16:34:45] j8 : https://www.bitmex.com/app/futuresContractFormulas
[2016-06-15 16:35:13] lockhedge : tscha: premium vs. spot is not a big issue. mark price is more in line with market price now.
[2016-06-15 16:35:49] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : I guess I'm asking about the ROE % specifically, not the PNL
[2016-06-15 16:35:52] podizzle3k : not on eth its not
[2016-06-15 16:36:08] elmorte : IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb: yeah, on the margin
[2016-06-15 16:36:32] j8 : the ROE seems high because it's based on the minimum amount of initial equity for your leverage setting
[2016-06-15 16:36:48] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : j8: Ah ok, thank you
[2016-06-15 16:36:48] j8 : if you're on cross margin, it doesn't make much sense at all
[2016-06-15 16:38:21] j8 : side note, the ROE on the leaderboard is completely different
[2016-06-15 16:38:28] gustavo7 : hm still lower high, ~1h bband intact
[2016-06-15 16:39:01] elmorte : podizzle3k: what's crackin
[2016-06-15 16:40:21] podizzle3k : sup homie just shortin this shitcoin called btc
[2016-06-15 16:41:00] podizzle3k : since the ETH market is wack as hell for bulls rigght now
[2016-06-15 16:41:33] daveberns1 : guys, seriously, how am i not on the ROE leaderboard?
[2016-06-15 16:41:46] elmorte : Eth's been out of wack for a few days now. I have a feeling they're working on it
[2016-06-15 16:41:48] daveberns1 : does it deduct if make withdrawals?
[2016-06-15 16:41:56] daveberns1 : Cause my ROE is easily over 300%
[2016-06-15 16:42:14] daveberns1 : since account inception
[2016-06-15 16:42:43] elmorte : daveberns1: based on how many coins?
[2016-06-15 16:43:09] lockhedge : daveberns1: deposits are diluting
[2016-06-15 16:43:12] j8 : daveberns1: yeah, there's some issues with the way it's counted
[2016-06-15 16:43:20] lockhedge : ROE
[2016-06-15 16:43:56] daveberns1 : its a notable amount
[2016-06-15 16:44:03] daveberns1 : nothing massive
[2016-06-15 16:45:03] elmorte : Good on ya
[2016-06-15 16:46:18] elmorte : There should be a loser board too. Sometimes getting liquidated is a subtle art
[2016-06-15 16:46:28] daveberns1 : lol
[2016-06-15 16:46:41] daveberns1 : well we get the rekt posts
[2016-06-15 16:48:25] elmorte : Maybe less ppl would go gung ho #Yolo then :)
[2016-06-15 16:48:44] elmorte : No, that's not a good thing, scratch that
[2016-06-15 16:48:46] daveberns1 : ya i have a high risk tolerance and strong conviction in an appreciating BTC for L2Y
[2016-06-15 16:48:57] daveberns1 : its been a rocky ride
[2016-06-15 16:49:04] daveberns1 : but all is well now!
[2016-06-15 16:49:40] elmorte : What doesn't kill ya....
[2016-06-15 16:50:20] elmorte : ...could leave you paralyzed, but I digress
[2016-06-15 16:50:46] elmorte : daveberns1: yeah, swaps are made for that then
[2016-06-15 16:56:35] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah @daveberns1 we've been talking internally about how to improve it. The ROE% on the leaderboard was a bit of a quick & dirty hack I put together just to have something up for now.
[2016-06-15 16:56:52] BitMEX_Sam : A better calculation would do something like net the total value of all position-increasing and -decreasing orders.
[2016-06-15 17:00:01] rapidtrades : fomc in 1h
[2016-06-15 17:01:31] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Sam: where the liquidty on btc/yen
[2016-06-15 17:07:14] elmorte : BitMEX_Sam: morning
[2016-06-15 17:07:34] messiaen8844 : Also very interested on that rapid, hoping they get the makers soon for it
[2016-06-15 17:08:33] rapidtrades : also a weekly contract would be better imo
[2016-06-15 17:09:15] rapidtrades : entering exiting every day is pain and costs lot more
[2016-06-15 17:13:15] messiaen8844 : problem with weekly is that trading the premiums can be tricky
[2016-06-15 17:13:32] messiaen8844 : 24H good choice for the scalpers, and XBTUSD for swing-trading