This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2016-06-13 16:30:44] rapidtrades : BTCDJS: u still here?
[2016-06-13 16:30:53] rapidtrades : where did u get liqed
[2016-06-13 16:30:55] Bitcoingirl : BTCVIX: yeah but the numbers are off. premium was $9, but at 35x it should be $14-$15
[2016-06-13 16:30:57] BTCDJS : yeah
[2016-06-13 16:31:08] Bitcoingirl : BTCDJS: maybe bitmex's liq system is slightly eager?!
[2016-06-13 16:31:25] lockhedge : BTCVIX: great to see that you are trading here again ;)
[2016-06-13 16:31:37] BTCVIX : lockhedge: I am not trading
[2016-06-13 16:31:43] BTCVIX : I am just here for the trollbox
[2016-06-13 16:32:09] elmorte : You get free satoshi if you post at least once a day
[2016-06-13 16:32:36] lockhedge : BTCVIX: ah ok, so great to see that you are trolling here again ;)
[2016-06-13 16:32:41] rapidtrades : BTCVIX: c*nt why did u make me look like a jerk in that chat with sleger?
[2016-06-13 16:32:57] tscha : bitmex's mistake is to assume rational traders. the assumption is that traders will increase their shorts on mex and their longs on spot so premium will vanish. reality is different though, peole are too lazy or don't care or don't understand the system
[2016-06-13 16:33:13] Bitcoingirl : tscha: bitmex needs a good market maker to do that
[2016-06-13 16:33:19] BTCVIX : rapidtrades: well if the mark price is $15 below what the product price doesn't that mean when you enter a long at $715 and the mark is $700 you basically are right up against liquidation
[2016-06-13 16:34:03] rapidtrades : it shouldn't allow u
[2016-06-13 16:34:09] Yumi : Maintenance Margin is 1.28% if you open at x35 you are at 2.85% Initial Margin, so 1.57% to play with, 1.57% of $700 is $11, if she opened at $10 premium than $1 move liquidated her
[2016-06-13 16:34:14] tscha : who would long a $15 inverse premium when funding rate is ~1% every 8 hours and DPE is near, I don't get it
[2016-06-13 16:34:36] Bitcoingirl : BTCVIX: i think i got liquidated 33% value wise earlier
[2016-06-13 16:34:40] elmorte : tscha: looking for a quick flip....the market was crazy an hour ago
[2016-06-13 16:34:42] Bitcoingirl : 35x: $15
[2016-06-13 16:34:47] Bitcoingirl : i got liquidated w/ $9 premium
[2016-06-13 16:34:50] elmorte : like epileptic
[2016-06-13 16:34:57] mrp1nk : tscha: most users come here to go long
[2016-06-13 16:34:59] Bitcoingirl : i don't know where the $6 difference went
[2016-06-13 16:35:14] Bitcoingirl : BitMEX_Sam: is it considering the funding payments? cuz that would explain it
[2016-06-13 16:35:16] kogroken : tscha: On the other hand when the price is going up, shorting is not an option either
[2016-06-13 16:35:19] rapidtrades : Yumi: sam said maintenance is 0.5%
[2016-06-13 16:35:27] Yumi : yea + funding rate
[2016-06-13 16:35:30] rapidtrades : so total around 1.9
[2016-06-13 16:35:32] Bitcoingirl : ooh
[2016-06-13 16:36:01] Bitcoingirl : so 2.8% - 0.5% - 0.15% - 0.77% = 1.38%
[2016-06-13 16:36:02] mrp1nk : but you are right and also basically implying to walk away to go long @tscha
[2016-06-13 16:36:13] Bitcoingirl : 1.38 * 700 = $9.6
[2016-06-13 16:36:15] Bitcoingirl : that explains $9
[2016-06-13 16:36:17] tscha : mrp1nk: yes
[2016-06-13 16:36:24] Bitcoingirl : kk everything adds up now
[2016-06-13 16:36:40] Yumi : well mathed
[2016-06-13 16:36:45] rapidtrades : no way...they add the funding rate?
[2016-06-13 16:36:47] Bitcoingirl : nevertheless i still think bitmex should've had a "your order will be instant liquidated in 2 seconds" warning
[2016-06-13 16:36:53] BTCDJS : well I can't be arsed with any of this anymore. Best time to trade here is before a bull run. Get in while its not so crowded.
[2016-06-13 16:36:56] kogroken : With the current system bitmex basically reduces trading, volume and liquidity by making it unattractive to long (and the trend makes it unattractive to short)
[2016-06-13 16:37:01] tscha : I also think that mid-price-marking wouldbe better
[2016-06-13 16:37:11] Mr Blue : I made nice money today, but ye the fee seemed harsher.. people should stick with x5 / x10 leverage, if you worry about been liquidated.
[2016-06-13 16:37:17] Bitcoingirl : but yes, i put that order in, so my loss
[2016-06-13 16:37:28] elmorte : Bitcoingirl: good for you, took me days to get over my liquidation (by doing the maths properly)
[2016-06-13 16:37:53] tscha : kogroken: don't forget that without the new funding rate, there would be less shorts who can now act as a counterparty for all the longs
[2016-06-13 16:38:01] Bitcoingirl : rapidtrades: why wouldn't you add the funding payment in
[2016-06-13 16:38:12] kogroken : tscha: Good point
[2016-06-13 16:38:19] Bitcoingirl : I would linearly extrapolate the funding rate though
[2016-06-13 16:38:27] rapidtrades : why would u? its not paid for hours @Bitcoingirl
[2016-06-13 16:38:47] elmorte : But getting liqd shouldn't excuse you from paying it
[2016-06-13 16:39:05] rapidtrades : elmorte: but u only pay it if u go over the 8h milestone
[2016-06-13 16:39:07] Bitcoingirl : elmorte: nah that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about
[2016-06-13 16:39:22] elmorte : rapidtrades: I'm pretty sure you pay per minute...
[2016-06-13 16:39:32] rapidtrades : not here u dont
[2016-06-13 16:39:33] Bitcoingirl : elmorte: you pay / gain per 8 hr
[2016-06-13 16:39:41] Bitcoingirl : market is supposed to price it in, continuously
[2016-06-13 16:39:41] iisss : this place is fucking scam
[2016-06-13 16:39:46] iisss : they front run your orders
[2016-06-13 16:39:53] rapidtrades : ^^^ another one
[2016-06-13 16:40:00] Bitcoingirl : from my experience, traders here don't understand, and it's not priced in continuously
[2016-06-13 16:40:02] elmorte : so if I short a minute before funding payment, I get the full % rate? No way...
[2016-06-13 16:40:06] Bitcoingirl : elmorte: yes yo udo
[2016-06-13 16:40:11] Bitcoingirl : elmorte: i did that haha
[2016-06-13 16:40:12] Yumi : iisss: no, they dont, but they might insta rekt you if you do high leverage
[2016-06-13 16:40:14] iisss : you can see it happen on the order book
[2016-06-13 16:40:29] Bitcoingirl : elmorte: got a sweet 1.25%, market took a minute to correct it in with the premium
[2016-06-13 16:40:42] elmorte : Well I'm doing it all wrong then damnit...:)
[2016-06-13 16:40:47] Blargwaffle : The price moved pretty fast after the last funding period I paid attention to.
[2016-06-13 16:40:58] Bitcoingirl : elmorte: but anyway, yes you want to add funding payment in
[2016-06-13 16:41:05] Bitcoingirl : but you want to linearlly scale it
[2016-06-13 16:41:11] Bitcoingirl : so 1 hr past = add 1/8th of the funding payment
[2016-06-13 16:41:19] Bitcoingirl : 7 hrs past = 7/8th of funding payment added or deducted to mark
[2016-06-13 16:41:27] elmorte : Yes, I thought so to....or by minutes or seconds or whatever
[2016-06-13 16:41:37] Bitcoingirl : if they calculated it like this, then i wouldn't have gotten insta-liq'd
[2016-06-13 16:41:51] Bitcoingirl : because that would have gave me a 0.35% margin
[2016-06-13 16:42:02] stf28 : yes and sudden +/- 20$ variation in xbtusd would'nt happen
[2016-06-13 16:42:11] BitMEX_Arthur : Bitcoingirl: The mark price does decay
[2016-06-13 16:42:25] BitMEX_Arthur : https://www.bitmex.com/app/swapsGuide
[2016-06-13 16:42:41] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Arthur: yumi says funding is included in maintence margin is this true
[2016-06-13 16:42:42] BitMEX_Arthur : Please read the section on Position Marking
[2016-06-13 16:43:58] BitMEX_Arthur : rapidtrades: The reason we have caps globally and a per period change is to avoid the situation where a new funding rate is announced and you are instantly liquidated right at the funding timestamp
[2016-06-13 16:44:08] Bitcoingirl : BitMEX_Arthur: gotcha thanks, if that's already factored into the mark price then I don't understand why my order got liquidated
[2016-06-13 16:45:03] Bitcoingirl : BitMEX_Arthur: my price was 702.00, liquidation price was 691.1, that's 1.4%
[2016-06-13 16:45:19] Bitcoingirl : 1/35 = 2.85%, 2.85% - 0.5% - 0.15% (taker fees) = 2.2%
[2016-06-13 16:45:29] BitMEX_Arthur : Bitcoingirl: Can you please submit a support ticket to support@bitmex.com we will look at your account and get back to you with a detailed answer
[2016-06-13 16:45:53] BitMEX_Arthur : We don't discuss specific account details over the public chat
[2016-06-13 16:46:01] Bitcoingirl : thanks. for the record I have nothing against bitmex, i'd just like to know how exactly it is calculated for future information
[2016-06-13 16:46:20] Yumi : Maintenance Margin for swap contract: 0.50% + Exit Commission + Funding Rate
[2016-06-13 16:46:27] BitMEX_Arthur : Bitcoingirl: We appreciate that and will make sure to clearly explain what happened, and how you can prevent it from occurring in the future
[2016-06-13 16:47:11] Bitcoingirl : Yumi: funding rate shouldn't be counted twice, if it's already counted in mark price
[2016-06-13 16:47:20] Yumi : I'd say 99% of traders here don't know/understand what they are trading
[2016-06-13 16:47:33] rapidtrades : looks like neither do u mate
[2016-06-13 16:47:42] elmorte : "...and if it there was any error on our part..." @BitMEX_Arthur
[2016-06-13 16:48:08] rapidtrades : elmorte: that's impossible :)
[2016-06-13 16:48:31] elmorte : I know, but it's good PR
[2016-06-13 16:48:51] elmorte : It's what I'd wanna hear
[2016-06-13 16:49:19] rapidtrades : dam looks like sleger quit for good
[2016-06-13 16:51:36] Yumi : rapidtrades: what do I not understand?
[2016-06-13 16:51:51] zanza : 1 day is not for good :)
[2016-06-13 16:51:56] rapidtrades : funding rate doesn't go into the margin @Yumi
[2016-06-13 16:52:07] elmorte : Yumi: you are kinda fumbling with that formula buddy
[2016-06-13 16:52:50] BTCVIX : elmorte: whats up
[2016-06-13 16:53:02] elmorte : the ceiling?
[2016-06-13 16:53:13] elmorte : wassup dude :)
[2016-06-13 16:53:16] zanza : Do you guys think UK should exit Eurozone?
[2016-06-13 16:53:42] rapidtrades : yes
[2016-06-13 16:53:47] Bitcoingirl : yes
[2016-06-13 16:54:01] mrp1nk : me too. i'm happy if UK is out
[2016-06-13 16:54:19] zanza : heh
[2016-06-13 16:55:39] mrp1nk : heh what
[2016-06-13 16:56:01] zanza : anyone play League Of Legends?
[2016-06-13 16:56:42] elmorte : My wife might....she says LOL everytime I get nekkid...
[2016-06-13 16:56:52] zanza : :o
[2016-06-13 16:57:00] tscha : zanza: I played a bit some time ago, but quit last year
[2016-06-13 16:57:01] rapidtrades : is anyone from the UK here? i know BTCDJS is
[2016-06-13 16:57:34] cengel : The UK is not in the Eurozone. It is in the European Union. The Eurozone is the monetary union of the European Union which uses the euro as common currency.
[2016-06-13 16:58:05] elmorte : cengel: that's it! You're the dude that hated this chat, right?
[2016-06-13 16:58:39] cengel : @elmorte Yes, I re-enabled it to see what all the fuss was about.
[2016-06-13 16:59:05] cengel : Sorry to bring the average IQ of the Trollbox up too much.
[2016-06-13 16:59:24] elmorte : We needed a boost since sleger left
[2016-06-13 17:02:00] elmorte : Any suggestions on a name for a company that deals wrist watches?
[2016-06-13 17:02:18] mrp1nk : not that i don't like the UK or so, but they have been blocking a lot of stuff within the eu. they also kiss us asses too much for me. so let them leave ... @zanza
[2016-06-13 17:02:34] elmorte : I need to send something in to the company secretary by the morning and I'm getting sleepy...
[2016-06-13 17:03:47] tscha : BitMEX_Arthur: what's the reasoning behind the funding rate cap being 75%?
[2016-06-13 17:03:49] kogroken : elmorte: Moontime
[2016-06-13 17:03:56] elmorte : oooh...nice
[2016-06-13 17:04:23] kogroken : At least if you sell for BTC ;)
[2016-06-13 17:05:10] elmorte : Advantage Irish!
[2016-06-13 17:05:26] BitMEX_Arthur : tscha: we don't want to have instant liquidations to happen due to funding increasing beyond your ability to pay in the next period
[2016-06-13 17:05:50] tscha : BitMEX_Arthur: I mean the specific value of 75% - why not 100%
[2016-06-13 17:05:52] elmorte : kogroken: kinda funny when it rolls off the toungue though...."Hi, yeah it's elmorte from Moontime"
[2016-06-13 17:05:54] BTCDJS : rapidtrades: I now live in the UK but I'm actually South African. Been here since 2004 tho
[2016-06-13 17:06:03] tscha : oh nevermind
[2016-06-13 17:06:06] tscha : I get it
[2016-06-13 17:06:10] Yumi : BitMEX_Arthur: is Maintenance Margin of 0.5% increased by Funding Rate or not?
[2016-06-13 17:07:19] BitMEX_Arthur : The maintenance margin stays at 0.50%
[2016-06-13 17:08:19] Yumi : so what is stated here https://www.bitmex.com/app/contract/XBTUSD is wrong, yes?
[2016-06-13 17:09:53] BitMEX_Arthur : You liquidation price is still determined by the 0.50% maintenance margin, when you open a position we make sure you can pay commissions on entry and exit and afford the first period of funding
[2016-06-13 17:10:41] podizzle3k : sleger gone yay
[2016-06-13 17:10:58] podizzle3k : now btcvix needs to hit the road
[2016-06-13 17:11:43] podizzle3k : saltiest most butthurt rektboi
[2016-06-13 17:11:59] podizzle3k : ? all over the Internet
[2016-06-13 17:12:13] podizzle3k : for months
[2016-06-13 17:12:41] elmorte : some soliloquy...
[2016-06-13 17:12:59] podizzle3k : what's that like a haiku
[2016-06-13 17:13:20] elmorte : no...it doesn't follow any form...just talking to oneself
[2016-06-13 17:13:57] podizzle3k : oh might want to check the spelling on that one
[2016-06-13 17:14:08] elmorte : sure go ahead
[2016-06-13 17:14:48] podizzle3k : I'm confidant it's wrong
[2016-06-13 17:14:51] aethlios : just noticed ltc dump to 4.55
[2016-06-13 17:15:11] elmorte : I'm glad you can confide in us :)
[2016-06-13 17:15:23] podizzle3k : they do compare me to Shakespeare alot so I understand the compliment
[2016-06-13 17:16:08] elmorte : You can drop a rhyme?
[2016-06-13 17:17:05] podizzle3k : more pain inside of my brain than a little girl inside of a plane aimed at the world trade
[2016-06-13 17:17:30] elmorte : Slim! Didn't recognize ya
[2016-06-13 17:17:35] Yumi : BitMEX_Arthur: Im sorry Arthur it just doesnt add up to me from what I am seeing
[2016-06-13 17:18:16] podizzle3k : elmorte you clever fuck are you untrollable
[2016-06-13 17:18:50] BitMEX_Arthur : Yumi: why don't you shoot me an email, arthur@bitmex.com probably easier for me to answer all your questions that way
[2016-06-13 17:19:59] BitMEX_Wally : Yumi: The maintenance margin for XBTUSD is currently 0.50% plus 0.7787%
[2016-06-13 17:20:18] Yumi : holy fuck, thank god
[2016-06-13 17:20:23] Yumi : Im not stupid
[2016-06-13 17:20:27] Yumi : after all
[2016-06-13 17:21:21] BitMEX_Wally : But only for longs, as the funding rate is positive
[2016-06-13 17:21:28] BitMEX_Wally : For shorts the maintenance margin in 0.50%
[2016-06-13 17:22:12] elmorte : podizzle3k: just incredibly humble
[2016-06-13 17:23:47] Yumi : rapidtrades: you see this?
[2016-06-13 17:24:10] BitMEX_Wally : The funding rate is not counted twice. If you are long then as the mark price includes it as fair value then it is unrealised profit which is then required as maintenance margin requirement.
[2016-06-13 17:26:52] Yumi : I said 99% of traders don't know/understand what they are trading here and from what Arthur said it seemed like I was included in the 99%
[2016-06-13 17:28:36] BTCDJS : Yumi: how does Finex work?
[2016-06-13 17:28:47] BitMEX_Wally : BTCDJS: It works very well
[2016-06-13 17:29:21] mrp1nk : > "One of the most common complaints about the BitMEX platform is the complexity."
[2016-06-13 17:29:57] elmorte : Which is why I simplify it to this: Insert coin to play...and a few more in case you need to Continue...
[2016-06-13 17:30:14] mrp1nk : > "The concept of expiry dates and various symbols for each contract confused many traders. "
[2016-06-13 17:30:16] j8 : it is turning out to be a pretty confusing product to trade, no one knows what they're doing, there hasn't been much time to understand it
[2016-06-13 17:30:22] mrp1nk : imo the new product is much more confusing
[2016-06-13 17:30:30] tscha : j8: good for you then :)
[2016-06-13 17:30:41] j8 : tscha: yes very good
[2016-06-13 17:31:15] BTCDJS : BitMEX_Wally: you work there?
[2016-06-13 17:31:29] j8 : i don't feel i understand all the ins and outs of it yet either, but one thing i understand is huge interest payments
[2016-06-13 17:31:34] BitMEX_Wally : BTCDJS: I work where?
[2016-06-13 17:31:43] tscha : j8: me too :)
[2016-06-13 17:31:45] BTCDJS : Finex
[2016-06-13 17:32:04] BitMEX_Wally : BTCDJS: That's right, in addition to being the COO of BitMEX I also work for Bitfinex
[2016-06-13 17:32:24] BitMEX_Wally : Except when I'm being sarcastic
[2016-06-13 17:32:27] tscha : easy job
[2016-06-13 17:32:30] BitMEX_Wally : I'm British so you can't telll
[2016-06-13 17:32:55] lockhedge : Wally takes care that interest rates at Finex reflect the market
[2016-06-13 17:33:10] BTCDJS : Oh I recognise sarcasm. Clearly you don't mate
[2016-06-13 17:33:12] elmorte : I heard he fixes them himself
[2016-06-13 17:33:22] BitMEX_Wally : I fix myself twice daily
[2016-06-13 17:33:44] j8 : yep, definitely british
[2016-06-13 17:33:47] elmorte : I thought you could afford someone else to do it by now :)
[2016-06-13 17:34:52] BitMEX_Wally : :)
[2016-06-13 17:44:40] elmorte : BitMEX_Wally: So if I short a minute before funding, I get the full funding rate for 8 hours?
[2016-06-13 17:44:48] BitMEX_Sam : Yes
[2016-06-13 17:45:00] elmorte : Damn....
[2016-06-13 17:45:21] BitMEX_Wally : However, expect the market makers to jack their prices up after the funding is paid
[2016-06-13 17:45:35] elmorte : So I should just short a minute before in a bull market
[2016-06-13 17:45:42] BTCDJS : elmorte: yeah ista liq
[2016-06-13 17:46:27] elmorte : Yeah, but see I was holding this short since 570....and covered at 720. I could've just bought and sold every 8 hrs, no way I would've lost that much in value
[2016-06-13 17:46:48] elmorte : No plans to make it prorated?
[2016-06-13 17:47:22] BTCDJS : elmorte: how can you hold a short from 570 to 720 without getting liquidated?
[2016-06-13 17:47:46] elmorte : My liduidation price was 4k+
[2016-06-13 17:47:56] BTCDJS : what leverage?
[2016-06-13 17:48:00] elmorte : sorry, that q is upside down
[2016-06-13 17:48:14] elmorte : 1.14X
[2016-06-13 17:48:15] BTCDJS : lol
[2016-06-13 17:48:46] BTCDJS : really?
[2016-06-13 17:49:10] BTCDJS : how many contracts is that?
[2016-06-13 17:49:14] BitMEX_Wally : If the funding rate is x% then then market makers will put their prices up by x% just after funding, and decay them down until the next funding period
[2016-06-13 17:49:47] elmorte : yeah...I got liq'd twice because of insufficient funds in Jan/Feb...so like I said, I insert more than one coin to play now
[2016-06-13 17:50:04] elmorte : BitMEX_Wally: assuming an efficient market...
[2016-06-13 17:50:12] BTCDJS : but you're not making any profit right?
[2016-06-13 17:50:35] elmorte : It was covered in spot...so funding was the only profit
[2016-06-13 17:50:51] BTCDJS : really?
[2016-06-13 17:50:51] BitMEX_Sam : :+1:
[2016-06-13 17:51:12] BTCDJS : I didn't realise that was a thing
[2016-06-13 17:51:53] BTCDJS : so what happens when you close? you keep profit?
[2016-06-13 17:51:59] elmorte : Arthur suggested it in an email blast as well...
[2016-06-13 17:52:52] elmorte : 10k contracts...10k USD. You close here, take your losses, sell 10k worth of BTC on spot...the remainder of BTC is your profit there, and funding would be your profit here
[2016-06-13 17:53:09] elmorte : remainder of BTC there would just cover your loss here actually...
[2016-06-13 17:53:57] elmorte : And you're back to where you started, 10k USD, and some extra BTC hopefully
[2016-06-13 17:55:07] BTCDJS : elmorte: how much extra? enough to pay the bills?
[2016-06-13 17:55:25] elmorte : Yeah, and take the lady out for steak
[2016-06-13 17:56:14] BTCDJS : elmorte: what? How did you come across this way of trading?
[2016-06-13 17:56:50] elmorte : It's not really trading, it's more of a hedge
[2016-06-13 17:57:10] elmorte : You go long on spot and short on derivative
[2016-06-13 17:57:33] BitMEX_Sam : It's very simple and very profitable right now , we expect the premium to evaporate once traders realize
[2016-06-13 17:57:38] BTCDJS : elmorte: damn. Does it work everytime?
[2016-06-13 17:57:39] elmorte : The funding here was just a bonus
[2016-06-13 17:57:57] elmorte : Only if the funding rate is worth the risk
[2016-06-13 17:58:08] BTCDJS : in a bull market?
[2016-06-13 17:58:18] elmorte : After I did that, I realized what Arthur was talking about here: https://blog.bitmex.com/earning-interest-income-on-xbtusd-with-minimised-risk/
[2016-06-13 17:58:36] BitMEX_Sam : In any market, this will work
[2016-06-13 17:58:45] BitMEX_Sam : The idea is to get your position delta to 0 which is simple to do with an inverse derivative
[2016-06-13 17:59:00] BitMEX_Sam : Then no matter which way the price goes, so long as you have enough backing margin, you will make money from funding
[2016-06-13 17:59:03] elmorte : BTCDJS: I didn't know how much of a bull market it would be
[2016-06-13 17:59:28] j8 : yeah, i made 2.3594% interest yesterday.. not bad
[2016-06-13 17:59:31] elmorte : And I thought funding was pro-rated :)
[2016-06-13 17:59:45] BTCDJS : BitMEX_Sam: interesting. Im going to look into it
[2016-06-13 18:00:04] BitMEX_Sam : The real issue is getting enough fiat moved around quickly to take advantage of it
[2016-06-13 18:00:18] BitMEX_Sam : In Nov 2013 if you were, say, selling swaps on BFX you could make as much as 1% a day
[2016-06-13 18:00:33] BitMEX_Sam : Today, you can make 2+% off of our contract - even better!
[2016-06-13 18:00:54] elmorte : Yeah, I just happened to have USD10k on finex...I was asking ppl here what to do with it
[2016-06-13 18:02:04] BTCDJS : Well blow me down. You learn something new everyday. Good talk
[2016-06-13 18:02:04] Yumi : BitMEX_Sam: all great until you get DPE
[2016-06-13 18:02:34] Yumi : its great opportunity but there is risk and it should be clearly stated
[2016-06-13 18:02:57] BitMEX_Sam : Agreed, that is true
[2016-06-13 18:03:09] BitMEX_Sam : Although if more users were doing it, that would push the premium down and thus make it easier for liquidations to fill
[2016-06-13 18:03:10] j8 : yeah, all of arthur's promos talk about getting the interest without the counterparty risk.. that's really dishonest, the default risk is way higher
[2016-06-13 18:03:30] BitMEX_Sam : It's not intentionally dishonest, although I understand your sentiment j8
[2016-06-13 18:03:37] BitMEX_Sam : Until this weekend it had been a long time since DPE
[2016-06-13 18:04:11] tscha : BitMEX_Sam: I don't think the premium will vanish during a bull run. Your assumption is based on a non-directional market. The question is not "where can I make money" but "where can I make most money"
[2016-06-13 18:04:15] Yumi : yes but it can take one bad day and you lose everything you made and more
[2016-06-13 18:04:19] j8 : to someone who understands the product it just comes of as being salesman.. of a financial product in beta
[2016-06-13 18:04:28] BTCDJS : So Im having a problem. I just can't seem to go Long ATM. I set an order lower it gets rejected. I set an order slightly higher and I get insta LIQ notification. Is the best I can do, Pray theres a little dump so I can get in? @BitMEX_Sam
[2016-06-13 18:05:08] BitMEX_Sam : BTCDJS: Lower your leverage
[2016-06-13 18:05:13] elmorte : BTCDJS: I'm not Sam but either reduce the contract qty or add more coins to your wallet
[2016-06-13 18:05:48] BitMEX_Sam : Also, if you still have the Limit Order confirmation dialog enabled, you can see an estimated liquidation price
[2016-06-13 18:06:31] BTCDJS : BitMEX_Sam: how do I enable that?
[2016-06-13 18:06:43] BitMEX_Sam : BTCDJS: https://www.bitmex.com/app/preferences
[2016-06-13 18:11:50] BTCDJS : BitMEX_Sam: Order gets filled by the mark price right?
[2016-06-13 18:12:08] BitMEX_Sam : An order gets filled by the resting orders in the orderbook
[2016-06-13 18:12:31] BTCDJS : Ok and the chart follows those figures too?
[2016-06-13 18:13:57] BitMEX_Sam : Yes
[2016-06-13 18:13:57] BTCDJS : So Right now prices are at 705. And I want to buy in at 695. But that is more than mark price. So I can't get in.
[2016-06-13 18:14:05] BitMEX_Sam : The candles are actual trades, the purple line is the index
[2016-06-13 18:14:07] elmorte : If it was by the mark price, I would've liquidated myself :)
[2016-06-13 18:14:23] BitMEX_Sam : If you want to buy in at 695 you can certainly place a resting limit order
[2016-06-13 18:14:32] BitMEX_Sam : But nobody is willing to sell at 695 at the moment.
[2016-06-13 18:14:58] rentchev : premium is big at the moment
[2016-06-13 18:15:13] rentchev : I think it's a good opportunity to make money on that
[2016-06-13 18:15:17] elmorte : 11....if it goes below 10, something's wrong
[2016-06-13 18:15:26] rentchev : people still expect more upside, but might not happen short term
[2016-06-13 18:15:34] BTCDJS : BitMEX_Sam: ok so Im on the wrong train of thought then. A previous order got rejected. Can you look into it and tell me why please
[2016-06-13 18:16:08] BitMEX_Sam : Did you do a market order @BTCDJS?
[2016-06-13 18:16:57] BTCDJS : BitMEX_Sam: no limit order 1500 contracts 694.31. It was resting. and a few moments later it was gone. history says rejected
[2016-06-13 18:17:31] BTCDJS : BitMEX_Sam: i assumed because of immediate liquidation or something
[2016-06-13 18:17:47] BitMEX_Sam : Your history should show the full rejection reason
[2016-06-13 18:18:01] BitMEX_Sam : See also https://www.bitmex.com/app/tradeHistory
[2016-06-13 18:20:33] BitMEX_Wally : BTCDJS: That order was not resting, it was rejected at submission
[2016-06-13 18:20:47] BitMEX_Wally : `Rejected: Executing at order price would lead to immediate liquidation Submission from www.bitmex.com`
[2016-06-13 18:21:40] elmorte : `Rejected: Too fugly Submission from www.bitmex.com`
[2016-06-13 18:21:59] elmorte : Damnit guys....
[2016-06-13 18:23:03] BTCDJS : BitMEX_Wally: Maybe I just had a glitch in the matrix moment. Thought I set an order. but when I looked again it was gone.
[2016-06-13 18:25:47] elmorte : BitMEX_Sam: Um...changing the leverage in the Confirm Order screen changes the whole leverage even if I cancelled the order.
[2016-06-13 18:26:07] elmorte : Like, didn't submit it...was just playing around to see the liqn price
[2016-06-13 18:26:59] BitMEX_Wally : The leverage setting applies to open orders and open positions
[2016-06-13 18:27:08] BitMEX_Wally : and new open orders
[2016-06-13 18:27:17] BTCDJS : elmorte: didn't your mother teach you not to touch anything or play with buttons
[2016-06-13 18:27:28] elmorte : Yeah, but I clicked cancel...it should revert to previous setting then
[2016-06-13 18:27:40] elmorte : BTCDJS: I know I know but testnet is boring
[2016-06-13 18:27:50] BTCDJS : elmorte: now you're just being childish
[2016-06-13 18:28:17] elmorte : BTCDJS: joke's on you! I was childish the whole time!
[2016-06-13 18:28:38] BTCDJS : elmorte: Im going to tell your your wife if you don't pack it in!
[2016-06-13 18:28:51] BTCDJS : she will sort you out
[2016-06-13 18:29:24] elmorte : :(
[2016-06-13 18:30:10] elmorte : Thanks @BTCDJS , time to hit the sack
[2016-06-13 18:30:51] elmorte : Gnite fellas, be good, do everything opposite of what I did today and you'll be just fine
[2016-06-13 18:31:10] rentchev : see ya @elmorte
[2016-06-13 18:31:29] elmorte : :)
[2016-06-13 18:31:47] BTCDJS : elmorte: bye
[2016-06-13 18:35:27] rentchev : BitMEX_Wally: I think your exchange is by far the best one. And the rate at which issues get fixed and changes are implemented is amazing. Also support is very good. Please pass this to the whole BitMEX team.
[2016-06-13 18:35:54] BTCDJS : rentchev: suck up
[2016-06-13 18:35:55] Blargwaffle : Bitmex is great, DPE's kind of annoying though.
[2016-06-13 18:36:08] rentchev : lol BTCDJS
[2016-06-13 18:36:10] rentchev : I mean it
[2016-06-13 18:36:23] Blargwaffle : I'd probably be with cryptofacilities if I wasn't concerned about id theft.
[2016-06-13 18:36:31] rentchev : Blargwaffle: is there anything better out there?
[2016-06-13 18:36:48] Blargwaffle : I don't know if they're "better", just no DPE.
[2016-06-13 18:36:53] tscha : I actually think that changes are implemented way too fast here. On Live products there should be at least 1 week notice.
[2016-06-13 18:37:02] Blargwaffle : Or Socialized Loss in general.
[2016-06-13 18:37:17] BTCDJS : tscha: +1
[2016-06-13 18:37:18] rentchev : This is only my opinion guys
[2016-06-13 18:37:44] tscha : I wasn't affected, but I understand the people complaining about fast changes, it looks very unprofessional to do overnight changes without prior notice.
[2016-06-13 18:37:52] j8 : definitely
[2016-06-13 18:38:02] j8 : it's not the way to do things
[2016-06-13 18:38:08] BTCDJS : ++1 @tscha
[2016-06-13 18:38:20] BTCDJS : j8: +++++++11111
[2016-06-13 18:38:29] rentchev : keep in mind that we are the first to use this and the exchange is still yang
[2016-06-13 18:38:39] rentchev : it will take time for the software to mature
[2016-06-13 18:38:51] j8 : it's really becoming a pattern for bitmex too. they scrapped futures and added the swap in less than 24 hours
[2016-06-13 18:38:52] rentchev : I don't mind being part of this
[2016-06-13 18:39:00] tscha : just 1 week notice on any live changes is enough, not a hard thing to do either
[2016-06-13 18:39:19] rentchev : it's good feedback for them
[2016-06-13 18:39:32] rentchev : you can guys send emails to support
[2016-06-13 18:39:39] BitMEX_Sam : You're absolutely right tscha
[2016-06-13 18:39:48] BitMEX_Sam : We had a discussion about this yesterday and we are going to be much more conservative with the timeframes in the future
[2016-06-13 18:41:28] tscha : BitMEX_Sam: But that's what you said last time too, when there was a sudden API change that broke micmix' bot... like 1-2 months ago... I remember that you specifically said that you will be more conservative with changes on live products back then
[2016-06-13 18:41:33] BitMEX_Sam : We were very motivated to get the new funding rate in ASAP to clear that enormous liquidation and prevent massive DPE, which was successful, but in order to do so we caused some consternation which we regret
[2016-06-13 18:42:06] j8 : it's pretty clear that the issues with the swap were the result of moving too fast in the first place
[2016-06-13 18:42:14] BitMEX_Sam : That was a different type of thing, that was API return types (which we are very conservative about now), but I understand where you're coming from
[2016-06-13 18:43:06] BitMEX_Sam : Unfortunately the current issues we're having with premium did not and could not have shown up in test, it requires FOMO from real users
[2016-06-13 18:43:13] j8 : a lot of concerns were voiced about price marking, DPE risk, etc before the swap was even introduced. these weren't addressed at all
[2016-06-13 18:43:50] BitMEX_Sam : We believed the market would behave more rationally and that the funding rates as-is would be enough to anchor the product. That assumption was incorrect as is clear to see
[2016-06-13 18:43:50] BTCVIX : j8: this
[2016-06-13 18:44:06] BTCVIX : BitMEX_Sam: this is bitcoin -- how can you assume rationality
[2016-06-13 18:44:07] BTCVIX : lol
[2016-06-13 18:44:10] Blargwaffle : Bitcoin doesn't rational.
[2016-06-13 18:44:15] j8 : yeah, that's an awful assumption
[2016-06-13 18:44:34] BitMEX_Sam : Profits motivate people - I'm sure everyone can agree on that
[2016-06-13 18:44:57] BitMEX_Sam : Our incorrect assumption was that easy money by hedging spot & earning funding rates would be more of a motivator than FOMO
[2016-06-13 18:45:03] j8 : we already have examples in the bitcoin market where high leverage skews rates. see okc futures
[2016-06-13 18:45:05] BitMEX_Sam : Clearly, that's not the case, although the funding helps
[2016-06-13 18:45:09] BTCVIX : best course of action would have been to just settle the product and then make the changes and reopen -- you would have some blow back by taking people out of positions but they wouldn't be waking up to a new product with a bunch of changes and still in open positions
[2016-06-13 18:45:29] BTCVIX : BitMEX_Sam: nobody arbs lol
[2016-06-13 18:45:40] BTCVIX : that is one these beliefs mex still holds onto
[2016-06-13 18:47:27] j8 : i originally decided i wasn't gonna arb it, because the contract didn't make sense and the dpe risk was extreme. i ended up getting involved because it was too damn profitable. so far it's worked out but it's playing with fire
[2016-06-13 18:48:32] j8 : 32% clawback over two days kills arbitrage. i was just lucky to have losses on the swap
[2016-06-13 18:49:13] tscha : j8: well, imagine the other side. huge DPE risk and STILL buying at $15 premium :)
[2016-06-13 18:49:36] j8 : yeah, well i don't understand why anyone would do that, but they are
[2016-06-13 18:49:40] tscha : I will never understand that, buy yes, Bitcoin is irrational
[2016-06-13 18:50:05] j8 : just BUY JUNE PEOPLE. sorry for caps
[2016-06-13 18:50:22] rentchev : why j8?
[2016-06-13 18:50:36] rentchev : I am thinking of shoring June
[2016-06-13 18:50:40] j8 : it's turning out to be a way cheaper long
[2016-06-13 18:50:49] j8 : though the swap rate is variable
[2016-06-13 18:50:55] rentchev : I see
[2016-06-13 18:51:06] tscha : Bitmex should hire BTCVIX to learn from the point of view of the irrational maniac buttcoin trading site... arthur's oldschool finance knowledge does not apply :)
[2016-06-13 18:51:08] j8 : and it's quanto and volatility is high so it's already underpriced
[2016-06-13 18:51:40] BTCVIX : tscha: yeah I am just well versed in degen gambling -- he can keep all the high finance excel spreadsheets
[2016-06-13 18:52:10] tscha : BTCVIX: :)
[2016-06-13 18:53:27] j8 : rentchev: consider that on the swap longs are paying 1-2% per day. the premium on june is only 3% for 11 days
[2016-06-13 18:54:51] rentchev : j8: I was looking at shorting swap, so for me it makes sense
[2016-06-13 18:55:09] rentchev : for longs doesn't
[2016-06-13 18:55:17] rentchev : based on your explenation
[2016-06-13 18:55:19] j8 : yep
[2016-06-13 18:55:34] j8 : but it does mean betting on rates staying high
[2016-06-13 18:55:46] rapidtrades : longs still leaving that dream i see
[2016-06-13 18:55:55] rapidtrades : living
[2016-06-13 18:56:05] j8 : this could crash and you end up paying interest on the swap and losing the premium on june
[2016-06-13 19:01:14] lockhedge : BTCVIX: best course of action would have been to just settle the product. just close all longs that were bought at a premium at the spot price? seriously? how would your reddit post sound if they followed your advice?
[2016-06-13 19:02:07] BTCVIX : I said to close all positions
[2016-06-13 19:02:14] BTCVIX : as in induce settlement
[2016-06-13 19:02:25] BTCVIX : everyone just realizes P&L and then they can make the changes
[2016-06-13 19:02:30] BitMEX_Sam : Which would produce instant losses for longs
[2016-06-13 19:03:12] BTCVIX : how does settlement result in a loss for longs
[2016-06-13 19:03:15] j8 : 2 weeks notice for settlement would have satisfied most people
[2016-06-13 19:03:26] BitMEX_Sam : Because the current spot price is $10 under the last price
[2016-06-13 19:03:39] BTCVIX : well that an issue with how you do settlement
[2016-06-13 19:03:52] BTCVIX : OKC doesn't use spot price or index for settlement and they do just fine
[2016-06-13 19:04:03] j8 : settling at a $10 premium would be pretty unfair to shorts
[2016-06-13 19:04:08] BitMEX_Sam : ????
[2016-06-13 19:04:09] BTCVIX : you guys do it at daily rebalancing don't you ?
[2016-06-13 19:04:19] BitMEX_Sam : I don't think you understand what settlement is
[2016-06-13 19:04:38] BitMEX_Sam : Of course OKC settles at spot
[2016-06-13 19:05:06] aethlios : BTCVIX: it uses index
[2016-06-13 19:05:18] lockhedge : BTCVIX: never traded okc futures?
[2016-06-13 19:05:45] BTCVIX : lockhedge: OKC doesn't settle against index
[2016-06-13 19:06:17] BTCVIX : The system takes the last completed transaction price as the settlement price.
[2016-06-13 19:06:27] BitMEX_Sam : It certainly does not
[2016-06-13 19:06:27] BTCVIX : right from OKC FAQs
[2016-06-13 19:06:28] aethlios : BTCVIX: okcoin futures settle against index, now index 696, weekly spot 701.5
[2016-06-13 19:07:26] BTCVIX : do I have to get the screen shot from OKC FAQs as well or does my copy and paste not qualify ?
[2016-06-13 19:07:37] BTCVIX : OKC doesn't use index to settle their futures product
[2016-06-13 19:07:42] BitMEX_Sam : Lol...
[2016-06-13 19:07:43] j8 : BTCVIX: what okc calls settlement, bitmex calls rebalance
[2016-06-13 19:07:47] rapidtrades : next rate after this should be closer to 1.1%? @BitMEX_Sam
[2016-06-13 19:07:55] j8 : what okc calls delivery, bitmex calls settlement
[2016-06-13 19:08:11] BTCVIX : OKC does rebalancing as well though
[2016-06-13 19:08:20] rapidtrades : k
[2016-06-13 19:08:21] BTCVIX : and they use the same criteria
[2016-06-13 19:08:24] BitMEX_Sam : Which they very confusingly call settlement which is not the correct term
[2016-06-13 19:08:59] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Sam: ? 1.1% yes? give me that link
[2016-06-13 19:09:05] aethlios : At the time of delivery, the system will execute to close the positions on all opened weekly futures. The price will be the arithmetic mean value of the index of the preceding one hour before delivery.
[2016-06-13 19:09:16] BitMEX_Sam : rapidtrades: Go to Contracts -> .XBTUSDPI
[2016-06-13 19:09:23] rapidtrades : :(
[2016-06-13 19:09:24] j8 : normally bitmex futures would rebalance weekly at the future price. now, the swap rebalances at the spot price. that's different
[2016-06-13 19:09:28] rapidtrades : i cant bookmark that
[2016-06-13 19:09:35] BitMEX_Sam : You can go to it, then bookmark it
[2016-06-13 19:09:45] rapidtrades : k
[2016-06-13 19:10:46] rapidtrades : nothing here mate
[2016-06-13 19:11:05] rapidtrades : https://www.bitmex.com/app/contract/.XBTUSDPI
[2016-06-13 19:11:06] Yumi : rapidtrades:
[2016-06-13 19:11:10] BitMEX_Sam : https://www.bitmex.com/app/index/.XBTUSDPI
[2016-06-13 19:11:13] BitMEX_Sam : yes
[2016-06-13 19:11:14] Yumi : [2016-06-13 17:19:59] BitMEX_Wally : Yumi: The maintenance margin for XBTUSD is currently 0.50% plus 0.7787%
[2016-06-13 19:11:22] Yumi : [2016-06-13 17:21:21] BitMEX_Wally : But only for longs, as the funding rate is positive [2016-06-13 17:21:28] BitMEX_Wally : For shorts the maintenance margin in 0.50%
[2016-06-13 19:13:08] tscha : "OKC settles against last completed transaction" - imagine sleger's reaction if podizzle3k had said that :)
[2016-06-13 19:15:10] BTCVIX : the point is that before making drastic changes to an experimental product that had live money on the line the best course of action is to zero everyone out , which is just to give them the p&L minus DPE and then make the big changes
[2016-06-13 19:15:27] BTCVIX : it isn't really fair to be entering into a contract/trade that has changing terms in the middle of it
[2016-06-13 19:15:31] lockhedge : BTCVIX: can i quote you on reddit about okc settlement?
[2016-06-13 19:16:02] BTCVIX : lockhedge: sure -- it is right there in OKC FAQs
[2016-06-13 19:16:46] futuretrader : guys roe is basically i will get half of my profits right
[2016-06-13 19:16:52] futuretrader : if it says 48%
[2016-06-13 19:17:06] BitMEX_Sam : futuretrader: ROE is calculated on mark price, not last price, so be aware of that
[2016-06-13 19:17:12] BitMEX_Sam : Instead look at your entry price and compare to the current price
[2016-06-13 19:17:32] futuretrader : BitMEX_Sam: yes but say i make 0.02profit i get 48% of that right
[2016-06-13 19:17:50] BitMEX_Sam : No, it's saying that's 48% of the margin you put up to open the position
[2016-06-13 19:18:06] Yumi : BitMEX_Sam: see how ROE is confusing
[2016-06-13 19:18:06] BitMEX_Sam : So if you used 0.04 XBT to open a position and made 0.02 XBT off of it, that would be 50% ROE
[2016-06-13 19:18:14] Yumi : was my point earlier
[2016-06-13 19:18:18] BitMEX_Sam : Yumi: I agree that we need to do something to factor in the premium, but his question is different
[2016-06-13 19:18:42] BTCVIX : Yumi: no no-- bitmex has been "simplifying" things -- this is blasphamy to think it is complex
[2016-06-13 19:18:45] BitMEX_Sam : ROE == `Return On Equity`
[2016-06-13 19:18:49] Yumi : my point was its close to useless and misleading
[2016-06-13 19:19:07] futuretrader : BTCVIX: its just gets complex when you compare to poloniex mrgin
[2016-06-13 19:19:43] BTCVIX : yeah I know -- but that is still an issue with BitMEX -- they wanted to do things "their" way with XBT and gobbley gook
[2016-06-13 19:19:52] BTCVIX : so they get to answer the same questions over and over and over again
[2016-06-13 19:19:53] justinlooking : 690
[2016-06-13 19:19:56] justinlooking : wut
[2016-06-13 19:20:03] futuretrader : BTCVIX: it takes some getting used to. i dont see all these terms on poloniex simple straight i know how much i put in and how much i make easy
[2016-06-13 19:20:04] BitMEX_Sam : Looks like a big market sell
[2016-06-13 19:20:25] futuretrader : BTCVIX: this is more professional but i think it puts off those that are new to the game
[2016-06-13 19:22:59] futuretrader : plus i get confused when i dont see my profit balance straight away i think wtf where my profit
[2016-06-13 19:23:12] BTCDJS : BitMEX_Sam: what tells you that its a big market sell?
[2016-06-13 19:23:30] BitMEX_Sam : That it ate through $4 of bids
[2016-06-13 19:23:52] justinlooking : BTCDJS: all traded at same time
[2016-06-13 19:24:02] justinlooking : did it twice
[2016-06-13 19:25:28] BTCDJS : But also hardlyany volume behind it?
[2016-06-13 19:25:55] rapidtrades : longers finally realizing whats up
[2016-06-13 19:26:12] Yumi : rapidtrades: see above what I pasted
[2016-06-13 19:26:22] rapidtrades : no
[2016-06-13 19:26:30] Yumi : why not
[2016-06-13 19:26:48] blackwhite : rapidtrades: when you posted, they started to buy moar
[2016-06-13 19:26:58] rapidtrades : u say a lot of useless things @Yumi
[2016-06-13 19:27:14] Yumi : [2016-06-13 17:19:59] BitMEX_Wally : Yumi: The maintenance margin for XBTUSD is currently 0.50% plus 0.7787%
[2016-06-13 19:27:23] rapidtrades : f*ck
[2016-06-13 19:27:29] lockhedge : BTCVIX: only found this "The futures delivery price will now be calculated from the average index price between 3PM-4PM on the delivery date" http://blog.okcoin.com/post/115291858594/okcoin-futures-full-account-clawback-system did they make any changes how they settle?
[2016-06-13 19:27:37] rapidtrades : why would they include that in the maintence margin
[2016-06-13 19:27:41] Yumi : u my bitch now @rapidtrades
[2016-06-13 19:27:42] rapidtrades : that's such bullshit
[2016-06-13 19:28:07] rapidtrades : Yumi: ? there was no bet...f off
[2016-06-13 19:28:09] Yumi : [2016-06-13 17:21:21] BitMEX_Wally : But only for longs, as the funding rate is positive [2016-06-13 17:21:28] BitMEX_Wally : For shorts the maintenance margin in 0.50%
[2016-06-13 19:29:01] rapidtrades : i see u were right u dont have to spam that shit
[2016-06-13 19:29:37] rapidtrades : why would they include that in the margin tho? especially when offering 50/1 leverage
[2016-06-13 19:29:40] rapidtrades : thats stupid
[2016-06-13 19:30:27] justinlooking : BTCDJS: was a fair bit first time, check the tape
[2016-06-13 19:31:11] BTCDJS : justinlooking: what tape?
[2016-06-13 19:31:20] rapidtrades : so for longs what would be the max effective leverage
[2016-06-13 19:31:29] justinlooking : recent trades
[2016-06-13 19:31:53] justinlooking : 20:19:42, 697 -> 690, 40k lots(?)
[2016-06-13 19:33:31] justinlooking : dat tz leak
[2016-06-13 19:34:37] BTCDJS : justinlooking: Ok so someone on this exchange is selling off a lot. Because hardly a flinch on Finex or 0kcoin
[2016-06-13 19:35:06] rapidtrades : well yeah rates in 30 mins
[2016-06-13 19:35:37] BTCDJS : rapidtrades: cool so I can get my long filled cheaper
[2016-06-13 19:35:44] kogroken : Premium did shrink towards refunding
[2016-06-13 19:36:06] rapidtrades : refunding? is that an official term?
[2016-06-13 19:36:15] j8 : you can fill your long cheaper before funding, but then you pay funding
[2016-06-13 19:36:37] kogroken : It's recurring funding :P Dunno
[2016-06-13 19:36:45] rapidtrades : j8: it's a WIN WIN
[2016-06-13 19:36:51] rapidtrades : for shorts :)
[2016-06-13 19:36:55] j8 : absolutely
[2016-06-13 19:37:04] BTCDJS : j8: its small. but this whole debacle liquidated me in the first place
[2016-06-13 19:37:16] j8 : use lower leverage
[2016-06-13 19:38:31] BTCDJS : j8: it costs more
[2016-06-13 19:38:48] rapidtrades : it doesn't cost more...
[2016-06-13 19:38:48] j8 : "cost" is margin requirement
[2016-06-13 19:39:21] rapidtrades : that's not lost tho u get it back
[2016-06-13 19:39:23] j8 : getting liquidated is what actually costs you coins
[2016-06-13 19:39:44] rapidtrades : ^^^
[2016-06-13 19:41:38] BTCDJS : ok
[2016-06-13 19:42:02] justinlooking : lower leverage costs potential profit, but save potential loss
[2016-06-13 19:42:53] wurstgelee : justinlooking: only if u go all in
[2016-06-13 19:42:59] wurstgelee : otherwise it costs no profit
[2016-06-13 19:43:01] wurstgelee : =)
[2016-06-13 19:43:05] justinlooking : :)
[2016-06-13 19:43:11] wurstgelee : *potential
[2016-06-13 19:54:37] vizlma22 : Yep. Fees are crazy expensive for long positions in at least BTC and Etherium