This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2015-08-09 11:53:31] BitMEX_Wally : Effectively an interest rate
[2015-08-09 11:53:32] billyboy402 : ok , so bitfinex would need to sky rocket to 295 to margin call me here > that good news ,
[2015-08-09 11:53:56] BitMEX_Wally : billyboy402: Arthur and I have discussed it internally and we have moved `ETH7D` back to fair price marking
[2015-08-09 11:53:57] Tulip-stefan : billyboy402: only if they took the maximum position in the asset. If your account holds 10BTC and you spend only 5BTC at a contract, it will be much harder to get margin called. I think
[2015-08-09 11:54:00] billyboy402 : mmm i didnt think future have interest rate
[2015-08-09 11:54:25] BitMEX_Wally : Futures generally trade at a premium to spot, that difference is called basis and is effectively an interest rate
[2015-08-09 11:54:27] billyboy402 : Tulip-stefan: yea i though that would be the case
[2015-08-09 11:55:22] billyboy402 : so all risk it cross , not fix , any way to fix the poistion so one trade doesnt margin call the other
[2015-08-09 11:55:48] billyboy402 : so if i lose equaty on LTC ,... it doesnt close out my BTC trade
[2015-08-09 11:56:43] BitMEX_Wally : billyboy402: Ok if you refresh the page you'll see that `ETH7D` is now marked to the Ethereum price
[2015-08-09 11:56:55] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes select isolate margin
[2015-08-09 11:57:15] ksinvest : billyboy402: it's more the effect of arbitrage between interest based instruments like on Bitfinex and futures here, not a real interest rate
[2015-08-09 11:57:49] BitMEX_Wally : The fair basis rate for XLT and ETH futures is currently 0%, so they are marked to the spot price exactly
[2015-08-09 11:58:47] billyboy402 : oh so to margin call me 0.002900 , they are going to need to pump kraken and hold that price for at least 2 hours
[2015-08-09 11:59:07] BitMEX_Wally : They need to pump Kraken up to that price
[2015-08-09 11:59:11] BitMEX_Wally : The 2 hour calculation period is just for settlement
[2015-08-09 11:59:22] billyboy402 : oh ok
[2015-08-09 12:01:24] BitMEX_Wally : Even if you do not have "isolate margin" enabled, the losses of one DPE contract will not cause another contract to be liquidated. When isolate margin is disabled, the system tops up the position to keep the initial margin at all times
[2015-08-09 12:04:28] Tulip-stefan : I'd say this this presents... interesting market manipulation options if the volume of bitmex ever rises above the kraken volume.
[2015-08-09 12:04:39] Tulip-stefan : but i'm sure there are ways to fix that eventually.
[2015-08-09 12:06:24] BitMEX_Wally : Yes, if our futures had more volume than spot we would use last price or some hybrid for marking
[2015-08-09 12:06:46] BitMEX_Wally : FX futures generally trade 2x more than spot
[2015-08-09 12:14:58] billyboy402 : thanks for the help , sorry for noob questions
[2015-08-09 12:15:34] BitMEX_Wally : billyboy402: No problem at all, thanks for the feedback
[2015-08-09 12:26:56] ksinvest : 19.9 XBT daily turnover on XBU24H, i guess that's a new all time high
[2015-08-09 12:30:48] ksinvest : -6.6% in 24h is definitely my mm bot's record loss
[2015-08-09 12:31:38] Tulip-stefan : I't still painfully low, I left hitbtc because i couldn't tradde anymore when they where still doing several hundred BTC per day.
[2015-08-09 12:32:22] Tulip-stefan : 20BTC per day is about what i traded dayly on cryptsy in 2013 :P
[2015-08-09 12:38:39] ksinvest : Tulip-stefan: you are right, still painfully low volume. but it's getting much better from week to week.
[2015-08-09 12:39:32] BitMEX_Sam : I think XBU24H sits in a slightly awkward position now that the XBT series is much better suited for speculation
[2015-08-09 12:39:47] BitMEX_Sam : So XBU24H is only really great if you need to hedge shortly or enjoy the return profile
[2015-08-09 12:39:56] BitMEX_Sam : Also, morning traders
[2015-08-09 12:58:01] ksinvest : BitMEX_Sam: true, XBT is much more attractive for short-term traders. thought that fragmentation of markets within BitMEX would be a big problem for XBU24H, but volume is increasing since the relaunch XBT series.
[2015-08-09 12:59:53] Tulip-stefan : the market fragmentation problem is why i never understood X/LTC and X/doge markets.
[2015-08-09 13:04:47] ksinvest : a lot of arb traders are connecting the markets, they make some profit on fragmentation, seems to work very efficiently
[2015-08-09 13:06:38] Tulip-stefan : yea i know, because i used to do that too.
[2015-08-09 13:06:54] Tulip-stefan : but for the average trader it doesn't make sense.
[2015-08-09 13:07:39] KB : good decision to go back to mark ETH7D using fair price
[2015-08-09 13:07:59] KB : let me also praise you on your new UI, it is much better
[2015-08-09 13:08:07] KB : BitMEX is getting really good
[2015-08-09 13:11:44] KB : I am not able to find the statistics, such as volume and open positions
[2015-08-09 13:13:11] BitMEX_Wally : Have a look at https://www.bitmex.com/api/explorer/#!/stats/find
[2015-08-09 13:13:16] ksinvest : Tulip-stefan: would consider myself as average and uninformed trader, that's why market making or arb trading are the only ways i can imagine to make money.
[2015-08-09 13:13:31] BitMEX_Wally : KB: For example, current stats are here: https://www.bitmex.com:443/api/v1/stats
[2015-08-09 13:13:52] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.bitmex.com/api/v1/stats
[2015-08-09 13:14:32] ksinvest : Tulip-stefan: i'm a monkey robot that has no clue when it's a good time to buy or sell https://twitter.com/RobotFinance
[2015-08-09 13:14:43] BitMEX_Wally : Or have a look at the Instruments table at the bottom (in Advanced Mode)
[2015-08-09 13:14:46] Tulip-stefan : ksinvest: there is money to be made in predictions as well.
[2015-08-09 13:15:26] KB : changing the dashboard layout to advanced also shows what I wanted to see
[2015-08-09 13:15:31] KB : ETH is on fire
[2015-08-09 13:15:50] Tulip-stefan : ksinvest: I have been trying to get machine learning working for the past 7 months and it is working really well (>.5% profit per day) but i am really pulling my hair out over some of the results i get.
[2015-08-09 13:19:26] Tulip-stefan : It would be nice if there was more practical information available on the net. Because there isn't anything to find that deals whith the implementation details.
[2015-08-09 13:19:29] KB : people keep selling ETH on Kraken in thousands
[2015-08-09 13:21:25] ksinvest : Tulip-stefan: i prohibit my bot to learn too much from the other bots. it tends to get manipulated very easily like a small child if it learns fast :)
[2015-08-09 13:36:02] Tulip-stefan : throwing months of data at it will fix that.
[2015-08-09 13:38:57] ksinvest : month of data can't solve the "black swan problem" (problem of induction)
[2015-08-09 13:44:17] Tulip-stefan : That wont be problem with proper test/train separation.
[2015-08-09 13:44:43] Tulip-stefan : yeah you'll lose out sometimes due to unpredictibility, but that will be less than 50% of the time.
[2015-08-09 13:54:13] laisee : surely here is some backtesting of algo before release? No saying that it works perfectly, of course.
[2015-08-09 13:56:31] Tulip-stefan : what the tests on the test set do is confirming that the algorithm gives better-than-50% accuracy on data that the algorithm has never seen before.
[2015-08-09 13:56:52] Tulip-stefan : there are more subtile details that can go wrong, but that is the basic idea.
[2015-08-09 13:57:05] ksinvest : you need a real-money market for real world testing, a lot of data, that's some educational expenses.
[2015-08-09 13:58:15] ksinvest : simulation will not work because you can't simulate things like latency arbitrage
[2015-08-09 13:58:37] Tulip-stefan : you can do real-money testing with 0.1 BTC on a random exchange. That is not really a problem.
[2015-08-09 13:58:57] Tulip-stefan : what's more a problem is how long it takes to properly test something.
[2015-08-09 13:59:14] Tulip-stefan : i've just run a month-long trial with 4 different algorithms and i still have no clue which is better.
[2015-08-09 14:07:01] laisee : one with the most bits?
[2015-08-09 14:09:35] ksinvest : bitcoin is a great market to get quite a lot of data for some extreme scenarios in a relatively short time, but all of this data has limited validity because making predictions based on the past is generally a limited approach. you have to fail to learn or at least watch others fail very closely.
[2015-08-09 14:13:29] ksinvest : always try to find the black swan, trying to prove that there are only white swans will not help.
[2015-08-09 14:13:50] laisee : hmmm. try trading against m/makers - if u pick the right exchange you can see simple patterns to trade against.
[2015-08-09 14:17:55] ksinvest : laisee: my market maker bots add some random behavior as insurance against reverse engineering, will not always behave the same way.
[2015-08-09 14:18:04] Tulip-stefan : laisee: not necessary. The account with the most bits has the most bits because it did well on one particular day, if i exclude that day it is no longer the best. Furthermore, a third account actually has the highest median performance.
[2015-08-09 14:19:02] Tulip-stefan : I once lost one whole bitcoin because somebody reverse engineered my algoritm and continuously made him do bad trades in illiquid markets :P
[2015-08-09 14:19:05] ksinvest : Tulip-stefan: maybe i good way to start for implementation details https://github.com/CamDavidsonPilon/Probabilistic-Programming-and-Bayesian-Methods-for-Hackers
[2015-08-09 14:19:21] laisee : ulip> hen u have to choose algo for the market ...tricky
[2015-08-09 14:20:58] laisee : ks> sure, adding some random behavior helps.
[2015-08-09 14:21:11] Tulip-stefan : ksinvest: i know how to do machine learning. The thing i'm still having a problem whith is that when i have made a prediction (up/down), what i can actually do with it.
[2015-08-09 14:21:23] Tulip-stefan : obviously setting a market order isn't the best approach. But what is?
[2015-08-09 14:23:51] ksinvest : Tulip-stefan: so it's just a problem of order execution? passive trading often costs less fees and you earn the spread. but it's a tradeoff between a better price and less uncertainty if/when an order will execute.
[2015-08-09 14:25:09] ksinvest : if you consider yourself an informed trader you will probably take the certain timing and pay the premium.
[2015-08-09 14:25:52] Tulip-stefan : exactly. I have been trying to deploy machine learning to determine what the ideal order execution price is but it is kind of fuzzy and i have absolutely no idea how it will work on exchanges with significant spread or fees.
[2015-08-09 14:26:17] Tulip-stefan : my current approach is very quick n dirty.
[2015-08-09 14:28:49] ksinvest : it's like on ebay. the buy-it-now is always higher than the auction price but you can get stuff you need when you need it. try to win the auction and if you fail be fast getting the cheapest buy-it-now.
[2015-08-09 14:32:31] ksinvest : results will probably show that most of the order matching engines are rigged or you have problems with latency
[2015-08-09 14:36:06] ksinvest : https://twitter.com/RobotFinance/status/629396346374483968
[2015-08-09 14:40:36] Tulip-stefan : I remember seeing a documentairy about this stuff. One of the pioneers in this field said that their profits suddendly plummeted, from one day to another. Half a year later they've found out that the exchange added an undocumented API flag that gave your orders an higher priority than anyone else.
[2015-08-09 14:42:06] ksinvest : yeah, that's Haim Bodek, former Goldman Sachs developer, son of a Nobel price winner...
[2015-08-09 14:42:59] ksinvest : it was probably this documentary by dutch state tv https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFQJNeQDDHA
[2015-08-09 14:45:38] ksinvest : this one by the same journalist is more about latency than market structure, very well made as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq1Ln1UCoEU
[2015-08-09 14:46:50] Tulip-stefan : That first video is not available in my country.... impressive. The publisher is paid-for by taxes and is supposed to broadcast free on air..
[2015-08-09 14:49:12] ksinvest : first part of this trilogy is about quants, a bit boring but Paul Wilmott is funny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed2FWNWwE3I
[2015-08-09 15:26:41] KB : 37k sell wall popped up on 0.003 on ETH
[2015-08-09 19:57:37] miratrader : Hi Tulip-stefan, glad to see you here! Are you planning to run your bot on BitMEX?
[2015-08-09 19:59:06] Tulip-stefan : Eventuelly yes
[2015-08-09 19:59:22] Tulip-stefan : i have no plans to implement it soon.
[2015-08-09 20:00:26] miratrader : yeah, the volume is still very low but it's getting better
[2015-08-09 20:02:07] miratrader : there are couple of mm bots, one from a London hedge fund but it's quoting only during London and NY trading hours
[2015-08-09 20:02:23] Tulip-stefan : The trollbox seems pretty civilized, so i
[2015-08-09 20:02:30] Tulip-stefan : ..i will be coming here more often
[2015-08-09 20:03:34] Tulip-stefan : I'm quite suprisesd you guys found a hedge fund already.
[2015-08-09 20:04:57] Tulip-stefan : i find it very hard to operate in low liquidiry markets. Exchanges with OkCoin levels of volume allow me to get away with a lot of shortcuts.
[2015-08-09 20:05:07] miratrader : we (as in algo traders) need couple more market makers to tighten up the spreads before we can run HFT-type algos here
[2015-08-09 20:06:04] Tulip-stefan : Making an bot that arbitrages between bitfinex shouldn't be too hard.
[2015-08-09 20:06:15] miratrader : or a much larger volume to run mm-type algos
[2015-08-09 20:07:25] Tulip-stefan : 'm not sure it it makes sense to run mm algo's on an exchange that has no effect on price discovery since contracts settle on the price of a different exchange.
[2015-08-09 20:07:58] krtek.net : okcoin is a scam, don't touch it plz
[2015-08-09 20:08:41] BitMEX_Sam : Tulip-stefan: Nice to see you on here, run into you quite a few times on Reddit
[2015-08-09 20:08:47] Tulip-stefan : I am well aware of the okcoin history. I say it's one of the least worse exchanges i'm currently trading on. I still have multiple bitcoin on bter...
[2015-08-09 20:09:03] Tulip-stefan : i should really remove those.
[2015-08-09 20:09:27] BitMEX_Sam : I've had similar experiences. It took me the better part of 2 weeks to get bitcoin out of CampBX I was using for an arb strategy years ago that dried up in profitability
[2015-08-09 20:09:29] krtek.net : just ask anybody who does network security about his opinion on the bullcrap they are saying on their blog :)
[2015-08-09 20:09:42] BitMEX_Sam : krtek.net: In particular?
[2015-08-09 20:10:20] krtek.net : I'm too tired to explain it again today, I will do so another day, I'm not going to leave soon :)
[2015-08-09 20:10:43] krtek.net : (that's why I'm saying ask anyone and not explaining it myself)
[2015-08-09 20:11:09] miratrader : OKCoin might not be very trustworthy but it's one of the best for algo trading currently, especially CNY markets with zero fees.
[2015-08-09 20:11:43] BitMEX_Sam : No doubt, their liquidity is hard to match in Bitcoin
[2015-08-09 20:12:06] krtek.net : they have no option, if people leave, it's over for them :)
[2015-08-09 20:12:46] miratrader : It's the only one where you can do something resembling HFT in bitcoin space
[2015-08-09 20:12:51] Tulip-stefan : which is why i am using okcoin as a testbed for new algo's until i figure out better ways to trade on exchanges with high round trip costs.
[2015-08-09 20:13:47] Tulip-stefan : miratrader: that only applies to bots, obviously. I don't think there are any good reasons left for normal users to use the services of OkCoin.
[2015-08-09 20:14:23] miratrader : Tulip-stefan: of course, I'm talking strictly about algo trading/bot trading
[2015-08-09 20:15:11] lnovy : krtek.net is me :)
[2015-08-09 20:15:15] krtek.net : lnovy is me :)
[2015-08-09 20:16:12] STRML : :)
[2015-08-09 20:18:13] Tulip-stefan : hmm lets see i have 1130k bter points...
[2015-08-09 21:54:22] krtek.net : test
[2015-08-09 22:06:03] krtek.net : message":"Unexpected token \n <- you are good!
[2015-08-09 22:06:14] krtek.net : you are good
[2015-08-09 22:06:49] krtek.net : this is the first exchange that seems to do thing properly
[2015-08-09 22:08:30] BitMEX_Sam : You were trying injection in the chat box?
[2015-08-09 22:09:03] krtek.net : yep :)
[2015-08-09 22:09:12] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, that's always the first thing people try.
[2015-08-09 22:09:18] BitMEX_Sam : When we were in beta we had all kinds of shenanigans
[2015-08-09 22:09:22] krtek.net : I was trying to make the bot quit :)
[2015-08-09 22:09:26] BitMEX_Sam : Hah
[2015-08-09 22:10:12] krtek.net : the "lower than character" cuts off the message printed in the web chat, but is posted to the irc, should be fixed :)
[2015-08-09 22:11:07] BitMEX_Sam : Ah yeah, there are some inconsistencies because IRC is of course safer to post plaintext to - no risk of injection
[2015-08-09 22:11:19] BitMEX_Sam : Something like an arrow should work though. I'll take a quick look
[2015-08-09 22:11:54] krtek.net : the first message with the you are good, is not properly displayed back in the web chat
[2015-08-09 22:12:10] BitMEX_Sam : Yep - I see it
[2015-08-09 22:48:43] cengel : yea i reported this before too
[2015-08-09 22:48:56] cengel : because i like to use the "less than" symbol and it doesn't post
[2015-08-09 23:35:41] BitMEX_Sam : Okay, that should work now - e.g. foo < bar > baz
[2015-08-09 23:36:23] BitMEX_Sam : I've also allowed posting links and images by pasting the URL.
[2015-08-09 23:37:32] BitMEX_Sam : https://static.bitmex.com/img/bitmex-logo.png
[2015-08-09 23:38:35] krtek.net : does it check the content type or just the extension? I would rule the images straight off, too risky, to hard to do right.
[2015-08-09 23:39:12] krtek.net : also you are exposing all your traders which are using the web interfface to 0-day image vulnerabilities :)
[2015-08-09 23:39:55] BitMEX_Sam : There's the potential for spam but we would shut that down. There's no potential for JS execution in the images
[2015-08-09 23:40:45] krtek.net : also if you are displaying the image directly and not proxying it through your server/domain, you are including insecure content into secure page. not good.
[2015-08-09 23:40:53] BitMEX_Sam : Otherwise every message board in the world would have very serious problems
[2015-08-09 23:40:56] BitMEX_Sam : That's not true of images
[2015-08-09 23:40:57] krtek.net : svg can contain js, don't they?
[2015-08-09 23:41:24] krtek.net : discuss this with other members of the team first please
[2015-08-09 23:42:46] BitMEX_Sam : SVGs inserted via <img> tags cannot execute JS
[2015-08-09 23:43:21] BitMEX_Sam : Even if they could, the strict Content Security Policy on the site prevents it
[2015-08-09 23:44:08] cengel : test im buying bitcoin <200
[2015-08-09 23:44:19] cengel : sam: if i do "lessthan"200 it doesnt show
[2015-08-09 23:44:28] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah unfortunately it requires a space. I still need to fix that. < 200
[2015-08-09 23:45:44] krtek.net : linking images leaks traders IP adress
[2015-08-09 23:45:57] krtek.net : for this reason at lease turn it off
[2015-08-09 23:46:01] krtek.net : least
[2015-08-09 23:46:20] BitMEX_Sam : krtek.net: You are right about that, that is a concern
[2015-08-09 23:46:55] cengel : its not bitmex that downloads the image and posts it into chat?
[2015-08-09 23:47:10] krtek.net : not yet imho :)
[2015-08-09 23:47:22] BitMEX_Sam : No, it should be in this case if we are going to continue with it.
[2015-08-09 23:47:43] BitMEX_Sam : I'm going to shut it off for now until we have the time to implement that, you're absolutely right about IPs - thanks for catching me
[2015-08-09 23:48:36] krtek.net : :)) I'm always here for you::)
[2015-08-09 23:50:36] krtek.net : without a proxy/caching it would also be a very good ddos tool :)
[2015-08-09 23:50:48] krtek.net : once the popularity raises
[2015-08-09 23:50:50] BitMEX_Sam : Depending on the number of users online at any given time, yeah
[2015-08-09 23:50:55] BitMEX_Sam : It's already gone
[2015-08-09 23:51:09] BitMEX_Sam : For now we'll stick to the simple things in the chat box. Best to move slow on it
[2015-08-09 23:51:36] krtek.net : fixes can be instant, features should take time to deploy :)
[2015-08-09 23:52:44] BitMEX_Sam : No doubt.
[2015-08-09 23:55:20] BitMEX_Sam : I've also rolled in some aesthetic changes for phone users.
[2015-08-09 23:56:26] goat : BitMEX_Sam: just posted this in tv chat, you (and others too) might find it interesting if you havent seen yet - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Ac7ap_MAY
[2015-08-09 23:57:22] BitMEX_Sam : goat: Thanks, will give it a watch
[2015-08-09 23:57:25] krtek.net : The "Archive" display of the chatlog doesn't have the (irc) behind nicks.
[2015-08-09 23:57:41] BitMEX_Sam : krtek.net: You're right, you're on a roll today
[2015-08-09 23:57:43] BitMEX_Sam : Will fix.
[2015-08-10 00:02:09] krtek.net : I don't think I will ever find something serious, but how should I disclose it to you then?
[2015-08-10 00:02:19] BitMEX_Sam : support@bitmex.com
[2015-08-10 00:02:27] BitMEX_Sam : We offer bounties for more serious disclosures.
[2015-08-10 00:02:37] krtek.net : i'm registered on the crowd thing
[2015-08-10 00:02:49] krtek.net : just because someone from you told me about it :D
[2015-08-10 00:03:07] BitMEX_Sam : Ah yeah. Then via CrowdCurity if you'd like to go through their system, via email otherwise
[2015-08-10 00:03:15] krtek.net : ok
[2015-08-10 00:04:21] krtek.net : (I should have disclosed the IP leaking issue privately too, sorry for that)
[2015-08-10 00:04:38] BitMEX_Sam : Not a problem, I am okay with being called out publicly for that
[2015-08-10 00:04:42] BitMEX_Sam : Our feet should be held to the fire
[2015-08-10 00:05:23] krtek.net : That's not the issue, someone could had have the IPs now :)
[2015-08-10 00:05:26] BitMEX_Sam : For more serious disclosures, of course, we prefer being told ahead of time so we have time to limit any potential damage or downtime
[2015-08-10 00:06:14] BitMEX_Sam : True, but I disabled the feature within about 30s
[2015-08-10 00:06:55] krtek.net : I will be more careful next time and so will be you :)
[2015-08-10 00:06:58] BitMEX_Sam : Yep.
[2015-08-10 00:07:06] BitMEX_Sam : BTW IRC markers are now on https://www.bitmex.com/chatArchive
[2015-08-10 00:07:12] BitMEX_Sam : Thanks for that one.
[2015-08-10 00:07:17] krtek.net : np
[2015-08-10 00:15:23] BitMEX_Sam : @krtek.net Love your site btw
[2015-08-10 00:15:34] krtek.net : =)))
[2015-08-10 00:15:50] BitMEX_Sam : That shaking window trick is hilarious.
[2015-08-10 00:16:12] krtek.net : I just copied it from somewhere, but it's indeed awesome :)
[2015-08-10 00:21:45] j8 : charts aren't loading, is it just me?
[2015-08-10 00:21:59] BitMEX_Sam : Loads here
[2015-08-10 00:22:35] BitMEX_Sam : Hold, I see an error in an incognito window
[2015-08-10 00:24:23] j8 : websocket errors in my console.
[2015-08-10 00:25:12] ksinvest : same here, not loading...
[2015-08-10 00:26:05] krtek.net : eth is ready for lower low on polo
[2015-08-10 00:27:41] ksinvest : krtek.net: nice security consulting work :) and great to read how BitMEX_Sam reacted
[2015-08-10 00:28:03] krtek.net : I like it here too :)
[2015-08-10 00:28:43] BitMEX_Sam : Isolated the chart issue, fix is pending.
[2015-08-10 00:28:54] BitMEX_Sam : Thanks for your patience, it's been one of those days
[2015-08-10 00:34:30] BitMEX_Sam : Your charts are back on a refresh.
[2015-08-10 00:41:41] krtek.net : and there it is, new ATL (is that a thing?) on ETH on polo :)
[2015-08-10 00:50:44] krtek.net : ETH hodler be like... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc
[2015-08-10 01:15:39] KB : BitMEX_Sam: could you do a volume weighted average of Kraken and poloniex (and other exchanges trading ETH) for determining the fair price of ETH?
[2015-08-10 01:16:07] BitMEX_Sam : That's definitely possible, we've been talking about adding Poloniex as a data provider
[2015-08-10 01:16:15] BitMEX_Sam : They appear to be taking the lead on alts
[2015-08-10 01:16:26] BitMEX_Sam : Once the datasource is up we could do a split.
[2015-08-10 01:18:46] KB : great! poloniex seems to be doing as much volume as Kraken right now
[2015-08-10 01:19:40] KB : the price difference is pretty big between both, so someone could do some nice arbitrage right now
[2015-08-10 01:21:12] KB : poloniex' order book updates like crazy right now
[2015-08-10 01:22:56] krtek.net : if you implement weighting always make sure that you include only exchanges that have a nonzero fee on at least one side :)
[2015-08-10 01:23:15] KB : comparing this chat to poloniex and BTCe, traders on Bitmex seem like they are older than 13 years old ;-)
[2015-08-10 01:23:20] BitMEX_Sam : That's a good idea. 0 fee exchanges can get out of hand quite fast
[2015-08-10 01:23:32] BitMEX_Sam : BTC-e chat is legendary
[2015-08-10 01:24:06] KB : it used to be the best source for news
[2015-08-10 01:24:16] BitMEX_Sam : Remember `LTC on GOX`
[2015-08-10 01:25:12] krtek.net : Midas is real, and will be out soon-ish.(tm)
[2015-08-10 01:27:26] krtek.net : speaking of gox, this is just getting better and better... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1XPS-j-O24 (my masterpiece)
[2015-08-10 01:32:45] BitMEX_Sam : Hah that's great.
[2015-08-10 01:33:21] krtek.net : Could you implement desktop notifications please? if there isn't yet :)
[2015-08-10 01:33:43] BitMEX_Sam : krtek.net: Yep they are already implemented, which browser are you on?
[2015-08-10 01:33:56] krtek.net : chrome
[2015-08-10 01:34:08] BitMEX_Sam : If you click the lock next to the URL you should see a notifications config
[2015-08-10 01:34:23] BitMEX_Sam : It should have asked you when you first visited the site, perhaps you denied it
[2015-08-10 01:34:47] krtek.net : I've never noticed, but I might just ignored it and the default is to deny, thx.
[2015-08-10 01:35:08] krtek.net : big thx for teaching me where to find the settings :)
[2015-08-10 01:35:12] BitMEX_Sam : Sure. If you set to allow, you should get notifications - like @krtek.net
[2015-08-10 01:39:24] krtek.net : (FYI) no, I must have blocked, the default is to ask and by ignoring the request you are not deniing it...
[2015-08-10 01:44:09] BitMEX_Sam : I believe when you ignore it will ask again next time.
[2015-08-10 01:46:05] krtek.net : yes, exactly, I've checked that.
[2015-08-10 02:06:04] KB : BitMEX_Sam: I do remember LTC on Gox
[2015-08-10 02:06:19] KB : I actually rode it up to $44
[2015-08-10 02:06:44] KB : fun times
[2015-08-10 02:12:01] KB : haha, that "Der Untergang"-spoof is the best I've seen so far
[2015-08-10 03:09:39] krtek.net : lol, I'm like the only one allowed to have a dot in a nickname on polo :D that wasn't very wise of them, backlash in 3...2..1..
[2015-08-10 03:15:45] krtek.net : aaaaand it's gone...
[2015-08-10 03:30:39] krtek.net : that exchange sucks from the security point of view... session fixing, csrf, you name it...
[2015-08-10 03:33:00] j8 : they had coins stolen a year or two ago.
[2015-08-10 03:42:05] krtek.net : chesus, if you have API enabled there, I can drain your account with a simple clicking game, this report will be long :)
[2015-08-10 03:44:56] j8 : you can have my 1500 CarpeDiemCoins
[2015-08-10 03:45:20] j8 : that's brutal though, seriously?
[2015-08-10 03:46:24] krtek.net : well... it's teoretically possible, I will have to make myself a PoC before reporting it :)
[2015-08-10 03:48:45] krtek.net : ok, it's not that bad as I've thought... I'm tired...
[2015-08-10 04:51:39] ksinvest : just don't go to jail for stealing dogeparty tokens please ;)
[2015-08-10 07:05:16] TraderStefan : Ethereum contract is doing well
[2015-08-10 07:05:29] BitMEX_Arthur : TraderStefan: Yes we are very pleased
[2015-08-10 07:06:42] TraderStefan : It's probably the only place you can trade it with 5x
[2015-08-10 07:16:35] BitMEX_Arthur : To my knowledge we are the only exchange offering leverage on Ether
[2015-08-10 07:16:40] BitMEX_Arthur : and the ability to short it without holding Ether
[2015-08-10 07:18:02] TraderStefan : Yeah, trading without holding is great
[2015-08-10 07:18:18] TraderStefan : Which exchange is .ETHXBT2H index based on?
[2015-08-10 07:22:40] BitMEX_Arthur : Kraken
[2015-08-10 07:22:48] TraderStefan : Thanks
[2015-08-10 08:33:36] bitcoinsam : why is sept-dec 15 the only calendar spread available at the moment?
[2015-08-10 08:33:43] bitcoinsam : will there be more pairs added eventually?
[2015-08-10 08:38:32] BitMEX_Arthur : bitcoinsam: Because we need to changes some UI configs to make them easier to understand
[2015-08-10 08:38:46] BitMEX_Arthur : No one was trading them previously so we slowly started delisting them
[2015-08-10 08:38:52] bitcoinsam : got it
[2015-08-10 08:39:52] bitcoinsam : i guess if i really wanted a specific pair, i could just manually do it
[2015-08-10 08:40:36] BitMEX_Arthur : bitcoinsam: We need to do some additional work, they will come back in the near future
[2015-08-10 08:50:37] bitcoinsam : currently, how does the calendar spread settle? just the front month on expiration?
[2015-08-10 08:51:03] BitMEX_Arthur : They are a synthetic, you receive a position in the front and back month upon execution
[2015-08-10 08:53:57] bitcoinsam : ah that's right, so i can just roll the front month if i wanted to keep it going
[2015-08-10 08:55:36] BitMEX_Arthur : correct if you were long `XBTQ15` and you long rolled i.e. bought `XBTQ15_U15`, your `XBTQ15` would disappear, and be left with long `XBTU15`
[2015-08-10 08:56:24] bitcoinsam : got it, thanks!
[2015-08-10 09:21:36] cengel : Im still getting panels (orderbook and recent trades) that aren't updating properly when I switch contracts.
[2015-08-10 09:21:42] cengel : and so it ends up showing wrong prices
[2015-08-10 09:21:57] cengel : is anyone else experiencing this? requiring a refresh?
[2015-08-10 09:22:23] BitMEX_Arthur : cengel: We will try and replicate
[2015-08-10 09:22:52] cengel : Im firefox windows10 adblockplus
[2015-08-10 09:49:49] krtek.net : again "Uncaught ReferenceError: Missed required data" from tv-chart
[2015-08-10 09:50:09] krtek.net : but it seems to work anyway
[2015-08-10 09:51:45] BitMEX_Wally : Thanks, let me look into it
[2015-08-10 09:51:58] BitMEX_Wally : `ETH7D` again?
[2015-08-10 09:56:37] krtek.net : some symbols throws, some don't
[2015-08-10 09:57:35] BitMEX_Wally : I can't replicate it. What browser?
[2015-08-10 09:57:38] krtek.net : there are also warnings for ETH7D when update comes, so ETH7D should be the problem, the ReferenceError is probably harmless.
[2015-08-10 09:57:55] krtek.net : mine is chrome, but I have data loading properly.
[2015-08-10 09:58:18] krtek.net : Update for missing item ({"symbol":"ETH7D","level":24}) came through on orderBook. Refreshing underlying...
[2015-08-10 09:58:57] BitMEX_Wally : Ahh, you might have missed a web socket update that did inserted level 24
[2015-08-10 09:59:31] BitMEX_Wally : We need to put sequence numbers on the web socket messages so the client knows when to refresh the image
[2015-08-10 10:01:34] krtek.net : (the warning might be showin on ETH7D only for me because I only have this instrument in open positions, sorry)
[2015-08-10 10:05:27] krtek.net : I don't understand why the sequences, when you already have timestamps virtually in every message.
[2015-08-10 11:51:03] iceAlex : why?
[2015-08-10 11:52:49] BitMEX_Wally : krtek.net: Sequential numbers mean that a client can detect a gap, and hence a missed message
[2015-08-10 11:53:38] krtek.net : oh, on reconnect :)
[2015-08-10 11:53:39] krtek.net : i see
[2015-08-10 11:53:53] BitMEX_Wally : Yeah WebSocket is TCP so you shouldn't get gaps...
[2015-08-10 11:54:13] krtek.net : that's why it boggled my mind :)
[2015-08-10 11:55:22] krtek.net : btw. serial numbers will overflow, hashes of the previous message won't :)
[2015-08-10 11:55:35] krtek.net : and you can cut it down to like 4 bytes easily
[2015-08-10 11:57:20] krtek.net : doesn't even need to be a strong hash.
[2015-08-10 11:58:59] krtek.net : (but don't use them as a replay attack counter-meassure, just for the gap detection)
[2015-08-10 13:20:26] BitMEX_Wally : ksinvest: How's the bot going?
[2015-08-10 14:07:15] goat : just got lucky on ltc futures :D thank you fat finger
[2015-08-10 14:12:27] ksinvest : BitMEX_Wally: thanks fine. little 10 bot made +0.75% during this mad weekend, 300 bot lost nearly half of it's 30 day profits but still +8%
[2015-08-10 14:13:22] ksinvest : BitMEX_Wally: and my robot is blogging now :) https://medium.com/@RobotFinance/why-latency-always-matters-if-you-are-trading-bitcoin-dbfd33016bbf
[2015-08-10 14:49:35] j8 : ksinvest: i've been thinking the same thing, watching how slow the charting sites react. not everyone can relocate to ireland but they could at least use data direct from the exchanges. i see at least a couple seconds delay on bitcoinwisdom compared to websocket feeds
[2015-08-10 15:13:36] slacknation : ksinvest: which product is your fav?
[2015-08-10 15:16:39] ksinvest : j8: yeah no need to relocate to Ireland, my bot's server is still in sunny California with about 120ms latency, doesn't really matter as long as most of the traders getting their "real-time" Bitcoin prices from history books - just cut the middle-man
[2015-08-10 15:19:08] ksinvest : slacknation: currently Club Mate and Red Bull but i guess i did not get what category of products you meant ;)
[2015-08-10 15:19:58] slacknation : i meant bitmex contracts
[2015-08-10 15:20:46] ksinvest : XBU24H :)
[2015-08-10 15:31:03] ksinvest : actually my bot prefers XBU24H, i'd prefer BVOL but i'm not a good trader...
[2015-08-10 15:34:43] ksinvest : tradeblock added ETH data https://tradeblock.com/blog/ethereum-trade-data-now-available-on-tradeblock-markets
[2015-08-10 16:25:11] krtek.net : those hashes seems to duplicate :)
[2015-08-10 16:25:46] krtek.net : what are they?
[2015-08-10 16:28:00] lnovy : not looking good
[2015-08-10 16:28:19] lnovy : I sent 2 messages via webchat and they vanished
[2015-08-10 16:28:50] lnovy : sorry, they are there
[2015-08-10 16:28:55] lnovy : false alarm :)
[2015-08-10 16:36:05] krtek.net : oh, primus multiplexing, ok.
[2015-08-10 17:54:12] Trade_master_3000 : TV charts yet guys?
[2015-08-10 18:00:36] Tulip-stefan : Bitmex: XBT is affected by dynamic profit equalization, does that mean that i partipicate in DPE even when i trade without margin?
[2015-08-10 18:11:58] ksinvest : Tulip-stefan: if you are trading without margin you might prefer XBU contracts anyway
[2015-08-10 18:12:22] uiop : BitMEX_*: sweet move listing ethusd futs
[2015-08-10 18:15:14] Tulip-stefan : ksinvest: Maybe. I think it's usefull to trade in a leveraged market over a non-leveraged market to lower the slippage. non-leveraged orders won't make a dent in the orderbooks.
[2015-08-10 18:15:29] uiop : BitMEX_*: err, i meant ethbtc
[2015-08-10 18:15:35] Tulip-stefan : of course that doesn't apply anymore if even non leveraged traders pay for socialized losses..
[2015-08-10 18:17:39] uiop : BitMEX_*: also, nice move on not doing the xxx-margin-acct-for-xxxusd-futs thing for xxx other than btc
[2015-08-10 18:19:11] uiop : makes it actually possibly to trade syntetic ltcbtc and not have to worry about one of the legs getting liquidated since single margin acct
[2015-08-10 18:21:27] j8 : uiop: almost, but it seems that the withheld profit screws with your margin for hedging
[2015-08-10 18:21:38] uiop : BitMEX_*: first chance i have muneh to spare to alloc to crypto market making, bitmex will be my first choice
[2015-08-10 18:22:12] uiop : BitMEX_Chat: oh true hmm, havent read all the particulars yet
[2015-08-10 18:22:19] ksinvest : Tulip-stefan: interesting question. i guess the answer is "yes", and i might think again about liquidity provision for XBT if it was "no".
[2015-08-10 18:23:00] j8 : bitmex folks correct me if i'm wrong, but my understanding is that pnl on one DPE contract doesn't offset losses on another, until the rebalance on fridays
[2015-08-10 18:23:52] j8 : well, negative pnl counts. but positive is withheld
[2015-08-10 18:25:05] Tulip-stefan : ksinvest: Plus, market-making on a leveraged exchange is more profitable due to magin calls making the orderbook unstable, similar to how stop losses work.
[2015-08-10 18:25:31] uiop : is anybody doing a market making strategy for xbt that immed hedges against okcoin futs to lock in a (statistical) arb thing (using some algo to price your xbt limits based on curr okcoin btcusd futs order book) (or something)
[2015-08-10 18:25:33] uiop : ?
[2015-08-10 18:25:46] Tulip-stefan : stop losses and margin calls guarantee orders happen at the worst possible moment, which is advantagous if you place your orders a bit deepter in the orderbook.
[2015-08-10 18:25:51] uiop : oops, just gave away my vague plan...
[2015-08-10 18:25:53] uiop : :)
[2015-08-10 18:26:15] Tulip-stefan : deeper*
[2015-08-10 18:26:38] uiop : Tulip-stefan: stop cascades are stophunters best friends
[2015-08-10 18:27:20] uiop : whether they feel dirty afterwards is another question
[2015-08-10 18:27:23] slacknation : uiop: if u look at the orderbook, no one is doing that, if u do that, it would greatly benefit traders on this platform
[2015-08-10 18:27:30] Tulip-stefan : uiop: i'm planning to do that sometimes. This morning i realized that i already have al required algorithms coded.
[2015-08-10 18:27:56] Tulip-stefan : well everything except accounting for DPE
[2015-08-10 18:29:03] uiop : slacknation, Tulip-stefan: totally, i feel like that could bootstrap some liquidity while paying mm low-ish risk profits
[2015-08-10 18:29:03] slacknation : Tulip-stefan: that would be great, spread is outrageous now
[2015-08-10 18:30:07] uiop : same idea options market makers use when they're immediately delta hedging by buying or (short) selling underlying immediately after one of their option limits gets hit
[2015-08-10 18:30:44] BitMEX_Wally : j8: Each position you have in a DPE enabled contract holds the initial margin in an isolated manner, so losses in one contract do not affect the other
[2015-08-10 18:30:44] j8 : the quarterly premium on okcoin has dropped a lot compared to here
[2015-08-10 18:31:25] Tulip-stefan : I'm just not sure whether i should participate in the futures market. I hate everything that resembles socialzed losses. It's basicly an insurance for poor risk management, and i don't like to insure for something i can manage myself.
[2015-08-10 18:31:36] j8 : BitMEX_Wally: we're talking about using full account margin to hedge different contracts
[2015-08-10 18:32:09] uiop : j8: i've actually spent decent amount of time paying attention to behavior of spot/futs spreads on ok contracts
[2015-08-10 18:32:50] uiop : j8: quarterlies totally invert to a discount if enough bonesaw dumps happen
[2015-08-10 18:33:09] uiop : and quarterlies were like at a $16 premium during that btcusd flash pump the other week
[2015-08-10 18:33:10] uiop : lol
[2015-08-10 18:33:55] uiop : opportunities for trading week/qtr or biweek/qtr spread across bull/bear market boundaries
[2015-08-10 18:35:07] ksinvest : would be great if you start market making here, still enough space for competition. many small and medium sized liquidity providers are much better for a market than a few big ones.
[2015-08-10 18:35:27] Tulip-stefan : Are there any fundamental reasons why weekly and quarterly futures should be not prices the same?
[2015-08-10 18:35:33] Tulip-stefan : priced*
[2015-08-10 18:35:55] BitMEX_Wally : Cost of carry is greater for 30 days than 7 days
[2015-08-10 18:36:01] uiop : Tulip-stefan: nothing fundamental like you'd have where underlying is a storable commodity or something
[2015-08-10 18:36:13] j8 : swap rates though.
[2015-08-10 18:36:22] BitMEX_Wally : The cost of borrowing USD to buy Bitcoin
[2015-08-10 18:36:27] uiop : Tulip-stefan: spread is purely set by buying/selling pressure
[2015-08-10 18:36:39] Tulip-stefan : swap rates, i didn't think about that.
[2015-08-10 18:37:15] uiop : yeah true, interest rates
[2015-08-10 18:37:27] j8 : for quanto futures, there's an implied volatility in effect too.
[2015-08-10 18:38:05] BitMEX_Wally : Yes but it's not path dependent
[2015-08-10 18:38:18] uiop : vix futures are in an almost-always-contango similar to how btcusd futs
[2015-08-10 18:38:46] Tulip-stefan : j8: what do you mean with 'implied votatility' ?
[2015-08-10 18:41:06] BitMEX_Wally : Volatility is a parameter to the Black-Scholes pricing model
[2015-08-10 18:41:23] j8 : longer dated quanto futures would be priced higher because of the non-linear returns in USD terms
[2015-08-10 18:41:31] BitMEX_Wally : If you take the traded price of options you can back out what the volatility is
[2015-08-10 18:41:51] BitMEX_Wally : This is called implied volatility, as opposed to realised (i.e. historical) volatility
[2015-08-10 18:41:55] ksinvest : re: cost of carry. don't believe that finex swaps are a risk-free interest rate. we would need Exchange Default Swaps to calculate it ;)
[2015-08-10 18:42:31] uiop : here's an image of a neat plot of vix spot/futs spread over 2012 http://i.imgur.com/vLhTtSL.png
[2015-08-10 18:42:50] uiop : backwardation for like one day
[2015-08-10 18:42:54] uiop : the rest contango
[2015-08-10 18:43:04] Tulip-stefan : ahh yes that thing. I've actually never used that model before. I usually try to figure out good models myself.
[2015-08-10 18:44:47] uiop : vix spot/futs spread is a totally futs-market-only determined one
[2015-08-10 18:44:52] uiop : since underlying isnt tradable
[2015-08-10 18:45:35] j8 : arthur had some good blog posts on this stuff in relating to XBT and XBU: https://blog.bitmex.com/bitcoin-volatility-as-an-asset-class/
[2015-08-10 19:02:02] uiop : this is cool http://vixandmore.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-2012-vix-futures-term-structure-as.html
[2015-08-10 19:02:10] uiop : RE: vix futs term structure
[2015-08-10 19:03:29] uiop : http://www.cboeoptionshub.com/2014/08/20/quantifying-vix-contango-backwardation/
[2015-08-10 19:06:52] uiop : j8: oh cool i hadn't seen that blog post
[2015-08-10 19:26:23] krtek.net : the cultural difference between trollboxes is just amazing...
[2015-08-10 19:27:24] krtek.net : I would probably get banned speaking about VIX on polonix trollbox :D
[2015-08-10 19:28:52] ksinvest : :)
[2015-08-10 19:32:11] miratrader : yes, the chat here is really nice. I haven't seen any trolling whatsoever since I started trading here
[2015-08-10 19:33:13] Tulip-stefan : It's like godwins law, the opportunity to participate in a civilized discussion approaches zero as an community grows.
[2015-08-10 19:35:35] miratrader : very true but another factor is that BitMEX has more advanced UI and offers advanced products, so it attracts more experienced traders
[2015-08-10 19:38:36] krtek.net : react and security done right. that was it for me.
[2015-08-10 19:39:38] ksinvest : miratrader: and we might even scare off other traders with our chatter. people are feeling safer if complexity is hidden.
[2015-08-10 19:43:14] miratrader : I don't want to scare anyone, we need much higher volume here
[2015-08-10 19:44:29] miratrader : to anyone reading this chat: don't be scared, just buy all contracts offered here and you'll be good :-)
[2015-08-10 19:46:56] krtek.net : first trolling in the trollbox, dingdingdingdingding
[2015-08-10 19:47:31] krtek.net : this is historical
[2015-08-10 19:48:07] miratrader : sorry, going to be my last, I promise!
[2015-08-10 19:54:34] krtek.net : bugreport: css .tooltipWrapper .tooltipBubble has too high z-index, when I maximize some other view, the blue arrow in the instrument list view stays on the top
[2015-08-10 19:55:04] ksinvest : https://www.okcoin.com/ seems to be down, krtek what did you do again?
[2015-08-10 19:55:26] krtek.net : I would not touch that casino with a 10 meter long pole :)
[2015-08-10 19:57:46] krtek.net : (works for me and for the most of the world... https://isitup.org/www.okcoin.com )
[2015-08-10 19:59:51] ksinvest : works for me now as well again. have to withdraw some left satoshis from there. seems the have regular problems with their datacenter for their "international platform" https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/okcooin-down.png
[2015-08-10 20:01:34] krtek.net : shit starts hitting the fan I guess :)
[2015-08-10 20:01:53] uiop : here's a python script that displays okcoin week,bi,qtr books (using websocket) in a terminal, in case it's useful to someone that wants to market make arb bitmex/okcoin futs http://sprunge.us/NdXg
[2015-08-10 20:01:56] uiop : http://sprunge.us/NdXg
[2015-08-10 20:02:57] uiop : hints at the other trading-related okcoin websocket messages
[2015-08-10 20:03:55] krtek.net : (code is safe) (I hope you will now not alter it) :D
[2015-08-10 20:04:53] krtek.net : nice work.
[2015-08-10 20:05:27] uiop : thx, i cant imagine trading okcoin futs without that anymore
[2015-08-10 20:06:02] uiop : should make a bitmex version of it
[2015-08-10 20:06:37] uiop : could even display in terminal a computed okcoin/bitmex spread book or something
[2015-08-10 20:07:02] uiop : alongside other books
[2015-08-10 20:09:47] ksinvest : sha1 sig of your script is 9337F57A17B76F861D85181EB062CD5AC6F55880, just in case anyone fears you'll alter the code
[2015-08-10 20:09:55] ksinvest : really nice code
[2015-08-10 20:11:22] ksinvest : (just wouldn't personally use it because of high counter party risk at OKCoin)
[2015-08-10 20:11:52] krtek.net : i was thinking about hashing it, but I underestimated you guys and ruled it ouy :))
[2015-08-10 20:12:00] krtek.net : out
[2015-08-10 20:15:31] krtek.net : hmm... my hashes comes out as 7f9d38cc87f6e0e941c9bbbffe12303669caaf64 for hmac and 14358ac8c956b9b6b41c2136e496fb5747940978 for plain sum
[2015-08-10 20:17:58] ksinvest : used the plain sum, but you have an extra line at the end of the file...
[2015-08-10 20:18:17] krtek.net : I piped curl directly to the sha1sum
[2015-08-10 20:20:31] krtek.net : 6475 is the correct length :)
[2015-08-10 20:21:50] ksinvest : used a js based tool, copy/pasted the content by hand :)
[2015-08-10 20:23:43] krtek.net : hashing is sometimes tricking. the main idea for me why I tried it was whether you used hmac :)
[2015-08-10 20:28:13] krtek.net : if you guys don't know why this is important lookup "length-extension attack"
[2015-08-10 20:38:39] ksinvest : krtek.net: didn't know, thanks. now i also understand why authentication via the BitMEX api has to be so complicated.
[2015-08-10 20:38:56] krtek.net : :))
[2015-08-10 21:36:14] krtek.net : https://investor.google.com/releases/2015/0810.html
[2015-08-10 21:36:18] krtek.net : wtf?
[2015-08-10 21:38:36] gustavo7 : so they want to be all kinds of companies from a to z?
[2015-08-10 21:39:34] lockhedge : they are a big data hedge fund now, running a search engine might be helpful for the VC business
[2015-08-10 21:40:40] lockhedge : (this is my - ksinvest - 10 dollar bot account)
[2015-08-10 21:46:10] ksinvest : lockhedge: fully agree with everything you are saying
[2015-08-10 22:38:56] miratrader : ksinvest, is 10 bot using different algo?
[2015-08-10 22:40:04] miratrader : I see it on top of your 300 bot with 2 ticks diff all the time
[2015-08-10 22:53:12] j8 : having some issues with bitfinex ssl cert using the websocket-client python module.. has anyone dealt with this?
[2015-08-10 22:58:30] STRML_phone : Yeah I have seen problems with that
[2015-08-10 22:58:40] STRML_phone : Surprised they haven't fixed the cert yet
[2015-08-10 23:01:27] ksinvest : yes... <code>opts = { "cert_reqs": websocket.ssl.CERT_NONE, "check_hostname": False } connection_id = None # we set this when we get our client_connected message ws = websocket.create_connection(WS_SOCKET, sslopt=opts)</code>
[2015-08-10 23:03:44] j8 : this is an issue with websocket-client, not bitfinex, right?
[2015-08-10 23:03:51] ksinvest : miratrader: it's a bit more competitive, but shouldn't be always 2 ticks above the other bot
[2015-08-10 23:05:21] j8 : i hate the idea of disabling verification, still trying to figure out how to make it work.
[2015-08-10 23:06:01] STRML_phone : It's an issue with finex, not websocket client
[2015-08-10 23:06:11] STRML_phone : Standard SSL. They need to get it together
[2015-08-10 23:08:30] j8 : ah, it works on my local machine, fails on a fresh ubuntu 14.04 install, maybe ssl version differences?
[2015-08-10 23:10:19] krtek.net : try forcing it tls, skipping ssl altogether
[2015-08-10 23:11:29] krtek.net : or on the other hand try to force ssl 1.0, disabling everything else.
[2015-08-11 00:09:06] j8 : bah, not working and i'm done trying
[2015-08-11 00:20:31] ksinvest : j8: encryption shouldn't be important when you are consuming data from a public api, you can't trust on data integrity from Bitfinex anyway.
[2015-08-11 00:22:56] j8 : that's true, especially when they tell you not to use the websocket anyway. i don't have these issues with REST calls
[2015-08-11 00:32:05] ksinvest : Tradeblock's order book api might be an other alternative. you can subscribe via their public websocket api. they did not want to answer me if this feed is slower than their customer feed. got an email today that they will get back to me "shortly with a test link"
[2015-08-11 00:32:42] ksinvest : <code>{"action":"subscribe","channel":"orderbooks"}</code>
[2015-08-11 00:33:08] j8 : yeah i was playing around with their socket the other day.
[2015-08-11 00:33:53] j8 : that sounds dirty.. but yeah if they're selling a professional data feed then i would hope it's a lot faster
[2015-08-11 00:35:35] ksinvest : j8: ah, i actually got the link to their public ws from you :)
[2015-08-11 00:35:48] j8 : haha yes thats right.
[2015-08-11 00:37:35] j8 : i'm in the habit of searching 'wss://' in website source code nowadays.
[2015-08-11 00:44:25] ksinvest : i have no problem with Tradeblock selling their feed, their price is ok - but i wouldn't like it if Bitfinex delivers flawed data to retail customers while big players get exclusive access to their real feed.
[2015-08-11 00:44:53] ksinvest : wouldn't be a surprised if this is part of the short-term focused business model. their fee structure benefits market makers with more than 25,000 BTC trading volume / 30 days.
[2015-08-11 00:52:53] j8 : i guess we should be glad that our free data isn't 15 minutes delayed, and we get to see full orderbooks
[2015-08-11 00:58:31] ksinvest : you are right. 10 dollar bot could probably not be profitable with the overheads you have for being a market maker at CME :)
[2015-08-11 01:00:21] ksinvest : i guess we will see some big changes in the traditional markets in the coming years, i'm very optimistic
[2015-08-11 01:17:40] j8 : yeah, the fact that you can start trading with 0.01 btc and zero paperwork is pretty amazing
[2015-08-11 01:50:06] ksinvest : there is a lot of money and innovation in fintech now. you can already open a bank account in Germany including all AML/KYC paperwork with a 20 seconds video call on your smart phone.
[2015-08-11 03:11:41] horlicks : "At some point China will have to respond tit for tat vs. its major trade partners to recover some competitiveness and provide succor to its economy by devaluing the Yuan." -- nice prediction :)
[2015-08-11 03:11:58] BitMEX_Arthur : Yeah i just saw that
[2015-08-11 03:12:04] BitMEX_Arthur : big weakening
[2015-08-11 03:12:12] BitMEX_Arthur : this is going to send shockwaves through all markets
[2015-08-11 03:17:03] goat : have been waiting for this :)
[2015-08-11 03:17:11] BitMEX_Arthur : #MOON
[2015-08-11 03:17:23] BitMEX_Arthur : I'm pissed had some CNY sitting around
[2015-08-11 03:17:26] BitMEX_Arthur : just lost 1.5
[2015-08-11 03:17:32] BitMEX_Arthur : percent
[2015-08-11 03:17:43] goat : heheheheh - https://1broker.com/?u1=showcfd&symbol=USDCNH
[2015-08-11 03:20:03] goat : i really feel like things are starting to heat up even more now
[2015-08-11 03:20:24] goat : its kinda redic because its one of those things you always hoped for and now that its finally actually coming you're like rut ro
[2015-08-11 03:23:05] ksinvest : heating up or rebalancing the whole system, it's hard to say
[2015-08-11 03:31:22] BitMEX_Arthur : Yeah this is great for bitcoin
[2015-08-11 03:31:37] BitMEX_Arthur : finally the PBOC has responded, and you can bet they will keep going until growth picks up
[2015-08-11 03:32:58] goat : i have cny on bitreserve
[2015-08-11 03:33:03] goat : i forgot about that
[2015-08-11 03:33:05] goat : lol, great
[2015-08-11 03:52:34] j8 : now china is buying to compensate?
[2015-08-11 03:52:50] BitMEX_Arthur : spot is like $5 under USD implied
[2015-08-11 03:52:53] BitMEX_Arthur : with the new FX rate
[2015-08-11 03:59:35] j8 : now watch the usd markets get pulled up too.
[2015-08-11 03:59:42] BitMEX_Arthur : yeah
[2015-08-11 04:21:23] chrisxbt : 12k on weekly with low liquidity
[2015-08-11 04:21:44] chrisxbt : there was a 280 wick earlier
[2015-08-11 04:22:44] chrisxbt : BitMEX, quedex.net is launching futures and options. For futures they said using BTCUSD is hard for hedging so instead of using Inverse BTCUSD they're doing USDmBTC contracts
[2015-08-11 04:23:16] j8 : i looked at that site and just did not understand it. that part in particular
[2015-08-11 04:23:19] BitMEX_Arthur : I checked them out yesterday, we tried a similar contract no one understood it