This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2016-06-12 21:15:45] rapidtrades : wait
[2016-06-12 21:15:52] rapidtrades : what are u talking about
[2016-06-12 21:16:00] rapidtrades : we're still below 700
[2016-06-12 21:16:24] MrRGnome : not in china
[2016-06-12 21:16:37] rapidtrades : MrRGnome: idk halvenings seem to follow that boom/bust cycle
[2016-06-12 21:17:17] MrRGnome : That's kind of what I'm betting on rapidtrades. I could be wrong though, past performance is not indicative of future performance, but similar contexts may be.
[2016-06-12 21:19:56] stf28 : still everybody hodls
[2016-06-12 21:23:10] tscha : anybody from support here?
[2016-06-12 21:24:04] stf28 : lol its going up agaain
[2016-06-12 21:24:26] MrRGnome : china gives 0 fucks
[2016-06-12 21:24:43] stf28 : 712$
[2016-06-12 21:26:31] stf28 : guys prepare for the last one it will be unbelievable
[2016-06-12 21:26:50] stf28 : this bitmex will know 700+ !!
[2016-06-12 21:27:08] stf28 : it reminds me of the mtgox pumped one
[2016-06-12 21:27:17] stf28 : same feelings here
[2016-06-12 21:27:27] ayy_lmao : euphoric
[2016-06-12 21:27:31] ayy_lmao : in this moment
[2016-06-12 21:27:33] ayy_lmao : i am
[2016-06-12 21:27:42] stf28 : more
[2016-06-12 21:27:53] stf28 : numbers now doesn't matter
[2016-06-12 21:28:38] stf28 : lets crack this dpe
[2016-06-12 21:29:44] MrRGnome : haven't had a single new low in so damn long. it'll give eventually, even if just short term. Be careful fellas.
[2016-06-12 21:31:21] daveberns1 : who knows, we could be over $1K by tomorrow at this rate
[2016-06-12 21:31:29] Stunnedmuffin : new here o/
[2016-06-12 21:32:30] stf28 : who is still short?
[2016-06-12 21:33:01] lockhedge : my mm bot is short since $450
[2016-06-12 21:33:22] daveberns1 : yum
[2016-06-12 21:33:44] stf28 : lockhedge: how's that?
[2016-06-12 21:33:59] stf28 : you earn more from the funding than from mming?
[2016-06-12 21:34:11] stf28 : btw china 719$
[2016-06-12 21:35:01] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 2906 @ 684.37
[2016-06-12 21:37:02] lockhedge : stf28: spread+commission+interest+premium, the entry price is constantly rising, so it's now above 690 and not 450 anymore
[2016-06-12 21:37:35] stf28 : nice :)
[2016-06-12 21:40:13] luckynuke : closed long
[2016-06-12 21:42:28] MrRGnome : nice, that little ride down just bought me a couple lunches
[2016-06-12 21:45:52] luckynuke : fick nicht mit dem ficker
[2016-06-12 21:45:58] BTCDJS : the first cut is the deepest
[2016-06-12 21:46:14] stf28 : i find it scary to be short on this kind of moves you must have tuned your bot well !
[2016-06-12 21:46:28] GingerDan : China will be able to deposit/withdraw again tomorrow. Just some food for thought.
[2016-06-12 21:46:54] MrRGnome : I find it hard to call anything in a bubble, the easiest thing IMO is to wait for the hard falling red knives and ride them to the greens.
[2016-06-12 21:47:02] MrRGnome : and simply hold btc
[2016-06-12 21:51:39] luckynuke : GingerDan: whats your opinion ? bullish or bearish
[2016-06-12 21:56:46] dharmabum : Asked this before, but what's the best/most flexible way to lock in **BTC against USD** to step off the rocket? Flexible in the sense that one might need to get on the rocket again…
[2016-06-12 21:57:26] BombaUcigasa : Short XBT
[2016-06-12 21:57:36] BombaUcigasa : Close short to get back
[2016-06-12 21:57:49] BombaUcigasa : It's not ... rocket science
[2016-06-12 21:58:26] dharmabum : BombaUcigasa: haha, good. one.
[2016-06-12 21:59:28] dharmabum : BombaUcigasa: So use margin to short exactly the BTC amount held, and any appreciation in BTC will be offset by the short loss, and vice versa?
[2016-06-12 21:59:53] dharmabum : BombaUcigasa: So an XBT Pepetual Swap?
[2016-06-12 22:00:02] BombaUcigasa : Short ANY BTC
[2016-06-12 22:00:26] BombaUcigasa : But the notional/leveraged position should be the size of your desired USD stake
[2016-06-12 22:00:39] BombaUcigasa : So for 50X, only short 2% of the total in margin
[2016-06-12 22:01:20] Yumi : I don't consider the swap to be good hedge instrument since it does socializing losses
[2016-06-12 22:01:52] dharmabum : BombaUcigasa: thanks. I comprehend.
[2016-06-12 22:01:54] Yumi : and Insurance Fund is currently rekt
[2016-06-12 22:01:54] BombaUcigasa : Will DPE ever reset?
[2016-06-12 22:02:07] dharmabum : Yumi: Cool, so what would you suggest? (if anything!)
[2016-06-12 22:02:19] Yumi : it resets daily
[2016-06-12 22:02:41] BTCDJS : BombaUcigasa: when we go down it will
[2016-06-12 22:03:32] GingerDan : luckynuke: ATM I'm long, but I halved my position size at $650. I think Chinese may try to take proffits, and I think we are due for some sort of correction, so playing it by ear now
[2016-06-12 22:05:09] BTCDJS : GingerDan: my trade plan has bitcoin dropping as low as 540. Would you agree?
[2016-06-12 22:05:09] GingerDan : I posted this earlier, and is partly the reason I closed half my position: https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BTCUSD/G9xxD6Ir-This-could-be-the-end-of-the-line-for-now/
[2016-06-12 22:05:48] luckynuke : how long do you trade ?
[2016-06-12 22:06:31] GingerDan : So my estimate was $560 based on previous resistance/support. So I would agree with that general area, yes.
[2016-06-12 22:07:29] luckynuke : hmm china is above 700$ ...
[2016-06-12 22:09:13] BTCDJS : luckynuke: yeah. what will they do tomorrow? buy or sell?
[2016-06-12 22:09:59] luckynuke : experienced trader will take profit, but all the others will max. take the half of their profits and let it go
[2016-06-12 22:10:39] luckynuke : because of the greed
[2016-06-12 22:11:01] luckynuke : btw. china woke up already
[2016-06-12 22:11:11] 1QaZxSw2 : "Greed is good, greed works"
[2016-06-12 22:11:17] luckynuke : lol
[2016-06-12 22:11:43] BTCDJS : damn china
[2016-06-12 22:11:46] luckynuke : i do the hodle :)
[2016-06-12 22:12:26] BTCDJS : china is doing the kansas city shuffle
[2016-06-12 22:12:48] luckynuke : Tell me more pls
[2016-06-12 22:13:21] GingerDan : Thinking about it they have been able to take profit over the past few days on positions, by simply exchanging. Yet they have not. They will now be able to add to positions if they want.
[2016-06-12 22:13:24] BTCDJS : luckynuke: you never saw the film Lucky Number Slevin?
[2016-06-12 22:13:43] GingerDan : luckynuke: You look one way. They go the other.
[2016-06-12 22:13:58] luckynuke : BTCDJS: lol no :D
[2016-06-12 22:14:10] luckynuke : GingerDan: maybe they will
[2016-06-12 22:15:07] REKT : Liquidated long on `LTCXBT`: Sell 145 @ 0.00776
[2016-06-12 22:15:07] REKT : Liquidated long on `LTCXBT`: Sell 42 @ 0.00781
[2016-06-12 22:15:14] BTCDJS : luckynuke:https://youtu.be/zqn5Bi2Upm4
[2016-06-12 22:16:06] BTCDJS : damn. Thats my short ruined
[2016-06-12 22:16:48] GingerDan : BTCDJS: :(
[2016-06-12 22:17:07] REKT : Liquidated long on `LTCXBT`: Sell 461 @ 0.00775
[2016-06-12 22:17:12] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 17765 @ 687.14
[2016-06-12 22:17:14] BTCDJS : GingerDan: its ok. stop just triggered
[2016-06-12 22:17:22] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 1000 @ 687.74
[2016-06-12 22:17:22] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 50 @ 687.37
[2016-06-12 22:17:36] luckynuke : BTCDJS: ouch
[2016-06-12 22:17:50] luckynuke : china at 715$
[2016-06-12 22:18:07] BTCDJS : I think we go to 682 ish on fine before real dump
[2016-06-12 22:18:25] luckynuke : is your short still open ?
[2016-06-12 22:18:32] BTCDJS : luckynuke: no
[2016-06-12 22:18:54] BTCDJS : waiting to re enter if there is a chance
[2016-06-12 22:18:57] luckynuke : BTCDJS: time for a long til 720 :)
[2016-06-12 22:19:05] rapidtrades : i think we hit 700 on okc
[2016-06-12 22:19:14] BTCDJS : rapidtrades: 714
[2016-06-12 22:19:29] rapidtrades : nope 699.95
[2016-06-12 22:19:33] rapidtrades : not yuan
[2016-06-12 22:19:35] luckynuke : just a wall of 100btc till 700 on okcoin
[2016-06-12 22:19:35] Yumi : with this premium is often cheaper to get liquidated than close
[2016-06-12 22:20:09] Yumi : nice system to encourage getting liq
[2016-06-12 22:20:14] luckynuke : on finex are 4250 btc on 700
[2016-06-12 22:20:22] rapidtrades : that's prolly why they added extra fees @Yumi
[2016-06-12 22:20:57] rapidtrades : THIS IS SPARTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
[2016-06-12 22:21:38] luckynuke : china above 715
[2016-06-12 22:21:48] rapidtrades : i think PBOC time could be the wakeup call for china
[2016-06-12 22:21:53] luckynuke : $ gtf
[2016-06-12 22:22:26] BTCDJS : if china is awake. where is the volume?
[2016-06-12 22:22:41] MrRGnome : at houbi
[2016-06-12 22:22:52] rapidtrades : huobi
[2016-06-12 22:23:05] luckynuke : huobi and okcoin are the 2 big dicks
[2016-06-12 22:23:15] rapidtrades : DICK
[2016-06-12 22:23:24] rapidtrades : DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICKS
[2016-06-12 22:23:28] asdfman : cunt
[2016-06-12 22:23:33] rapidtrades : god bless china
[2016-06-12 22:23:52] luckynuke : ye
[2016-06-12 22:24:12] luckynuke : huobi 723$
[2016-06-12 22:24:16] mrp1nk : is sledger gone?
[2016-06-12 22:24:26] rapidtrades : mrp1nk: looks like it :(
[2016-06-12 22:24:30] mrp1nk : saw that thread on reddit
[2016-06-12 22:24:37] rapidtrades : link
[2016-06-12 22:25:00] Yumi : https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/4nrpof/bitmexs_perpetual_xbt_swap_product_struggles/
[2016-06-12 22:25:07] mrp1nk : you are mentioned as well ^^
[2016-06-12 22:25:20] Yumi : you famous
[2016-06-12 22:27:41] rapidtrades : damit...they should've included my reply to sleger
[2016-06-12 22:27:50] rapidtrades : now i look like a dick
[2016-06-12 22:27:54] luckynuke : 10k$ for bitmex
[2016-06-12 22:28:19] luckynuke : bb i´ll open a bitcoin exchange with 500x leverage
[2016-06-12 22:28:35] mrp1nk : why got bitmex so shitty lately?
[2016-06-12 22:28:41] MrRGnome : Sure, so long as you replace the text on the buy and sell buttons to "donate"
[2016-06-12 22:28:47] BTCDJS : pfffft. Now you look like a dick?
[2016-06-12 22:29:00] luckynuke : MrRGnome: nice idea thanks. You can get 20% if you want
[2016-06-12 22:29:09] rapidtrades : BTCDJS: lol
[2016-06-12 22:29:27] luckynuke : china still above 715$
[2016-06-12 22:29:27] MrRGnome : I'll tkae my 20%, thank you
[2016-06-12 22:29:35] mrp1nk : #iwantmy7dback
[2016-06-12 22:30:07] luckynuke : lol i would never put 10k on an exchange o.o
[2016-06-12 22:30:32] mrp1nk : this shit started when the p. swap was introduced
[2016-06-12 22:30:59] luckynuke : btw. are here experienced trader ?
[2016-06-12 22:31:03] rapidtrades : mrp1nk: did it rly? don't u remember a 20-30% DPE back in november?
[2016-06-12 22:31:15] BTCDJS : rapidtrades: ?
[2016-06-12 22:31:24] rapidtrades : high leverage plus limits for liquidations is a recipe for disaster
[2016-06-12 22:31:48] mrp1nk : rapidtrades: i remember, but this what one day/week or not?
[2016-06-12 22:31:48] rapidtrades : we've always been one runaway market from this and now it could happen
[2016-06-12 22:32:02] mrp1nk : what=was
[2016-06-12 22:32:19] j8 : rapidtrades: and do you remember going to 510 and back, with a $45 premium on XBT24H, with zero DPE?
[2016-06-12 22:32:53] rapidtrades : like i've advocated for months, there's a reason margin calls get dumped on the market everyone but in crypto land
[2016-06-12 22:33:02] rapidtrades : everywhere*
[2016-06-12 22:33:14] jordanbitfort : im about to go take a shower. by the law of me missing everything, price will be 700+ when im back
[2016-06-12 22:34:00] rapidtrades : j8: right ...key word there is ''and back''
[2016-06-12 22:34:08] rapidtrades : DPE is only a problem in runaway markets
[2016-06-12 22:34:28] rapidtrades : problem is bitcoin was range-bound ever since okc introduced clawbacks (and everyone followed)
[2016-06-12 22:34:34] j8 : that's true, but you gotta admit, the whole system of this swap encourages DPE
[2016-06-12 22:34:37] rapidtrades : so this is the first real stress test
[2016-06-12 22:34:44] luckynuke : any experienced trader here ?
[2016-06-12 22:35:22] rapidtrades : j8: swap seems defective but i have no experience to know for sure
[2016-06-12 22:35:45] BTCDJS : luckynuke: nope. all amateurs
[2016-06-12 22:35:48] j8 : rapidtrades: also consider that there's DPE left over from yesterday's liquidations. that didn't happen on the 24H (except it could with the 48H but not longer than 2 days)
[2016-06-12 22:35:50] rapidtrades : arthur says he designed these types of products for GS so maybe he can fix it smhow
[2016-06-12 22:36:00] luckynuke : BTCDJS: k. any tips for noobies ?
[2016-06-12 22:36:02] rapidtrades : j8: right
[2016-06-12 22:36:07] j8 : nothing like this exists in the real world
[2016-06-12 22:36:07] rapidtrades : fair point
[2016-06-12 22:36:25] BTCDJS : luckynuke: don't get REKT
[2016-06-12 22:36:54] rapidtrades : it seems highly unstable as a trading product that's suppose to follow BTC
[2016-06-12 22:37:05] luckynuke : BTCDJS: not new, but thanks for your effort
[2016-06-12 22:37:14] 1QaZxSw2 : tough to trade with a 14% DPE. This is bigger than income ta
[2016-06-12 22:37:25] lockhedge : j8: you can compare this swap to an open end certificate or a rolling turbo in germany
[2016-06-12 22:37:43] rapidtrades : lockhedge: do those have expiry date
[2016-06-12 22:37:48] lockhedge : no
[2016-06-12 22:38:03] rapidtrades : interesting
[2016-06-12 22:38:06] j8 : right i've heard of those, is there a way to claim the contracts
[2016-06-12 22:38:19] j8 : at the underlying price. or something like that
[2016-06-12 22:38:21] luckynuke : any Germans here ?
[2016-06-12 22:38:28] BTCDJS : luckynuke:http://technical-analysis-addins.com/trading-gann-rules.php
[2016-06-12 22:39:54] mrp1nk : BTCDJS: i see you're spreading the word
[2016-06-12 22:40:00] mrp1nk : good good
[2016-06-12 22:40:12] BTCDJS : mrp1nk: yes its a very helpful link mate
[2016-06-12 22:40:26] BTCDJS : luckynuke: a wise man gave me that link
[2016-06-12 22:40:46] rapidtrades : new highs for usd/cnh 6.6080
[2016-06-12 22:40:54] luckynuke : BTCDJS: sounds helpful, thanks
[2016-06-12 22:41:15] rapidtrades : only the PBOC can stop this shitshow now
[2016-06-12 22:41:24] Yumi : what you guys think about swap product with low leverage and not being subject to DPE, for hedging purposes and as direct competition to bitfinex lending?
[2016-06-12 22:41:47] 1QaZxSw2 : what is PBOC
[2016-06-12 22:41:55] ButchPooch : What is unrealised roe?
[2016-06-12 22:41:56] mrp1nk : BTCDJS: hehe ;-)
[2016-06-12 22:42:18] rapidtrades : i think they'll never introduce it and gambolers here won't trade it @Yumi
[2016-06-12 22:42:25] j8 : my understanding is that perpetual contracts are either quoted by a broker, or if it's traded on an open market there is some channel to actually arbitrage the contract with the underlying. even if there is a fee or a time restriction on claiming contracts at the underlying price, it's what holds it together
[2016-06-12 22:42:51] Yumi : it would be nice hedge instrument
[2016-06-12 22:42:57] stf28 : here it's just a gamble between us
[2016-06-12 22:43:19] stf28 : that's why there so few money to pay when it's obvisously climbing
[2016-06-12 22:43:30] BTCDJS : ButchPooch: hover the mouse over the word
[2016-06-12 22:43:43] Yumi : bitmex started as hedge platform before they went full casino way
[2016-06-12 22:43:47] BTCDJS : in the positions tab
[2016-06-12 22:43:51] rapidtrades : ppl don't hover enough over shit
[2016-06-12 22:43:53] ButchPooch : Im from mobile @BTCDJS
[2016-06-12 22:44:08] luckynuke : was gann blind ?
[2016-06-12 22:44:20] rapidtrades : luckynuke: no but he was insane
[2016-06-12 22:44:33] luckynuke : rapidtrades: why ? I dont know him
[2016-06-12 22:45:35] ButchPooch : I have a negative realised PNL but a positive unrealised ROE. PNL is bigger than ROE. Does it mean that if I close the position it will be negative?
[2016-06-12 22:46:07] BTCDJS : someone?^^^^
[2016-06-12 22:46:15] Yumi : depends if you close above/below entry price
[2016-06-12 22:47:42] 1QaZxSw2 : ButchPooch, you need a masters in math to trade here
[2016-06-12 22:48:05] justinlooking : ButchPooch: i prefer not to look at ROE, if you change the margin box to advanced and use unrealised pnl + wallet balance for current mark to market (although because of socialized losses that's still not definitive)
[2016-06-12 22:48:08] 1QaZxSw2 : im basically copying the paper off my asian kid next to me
[2016-06-12 22:48:19] rapidtrades : lol
[2016-06-12 22:48:55] luckynuke : china is still above 720
[2016-06-12 22:49:01] BTCDJS : damn Ive only got GCSE maths. Im fucked
[2016-06-12 22:49:08] 1QaZxSw2 : weird. spot is making new highs and bitmx
[2016-06-12 22:49:15] ButchPooch : justinlooking: ill try from pc
[2016-06-12 22:49:19] ButchPooch : Thank you
[2016-06-12 22:49:30] Yumi : ignore ROE, unrealised PNL, focus on entry and exit price
[2016-06-12 22:49:59] BTCDJS : what he said ^^^^^^^
[2016-06-12 22:50:08] justinlooking : 4730 dafuck
[2016-06-12 22:52:30] Yumi : this ROE is totally useless info and should be removed
[2016-06-12 22:52:54] Yumi : oh wow 500% ROE, oh yea if calculated at 50x lev..
[2016-06-12 22:53:17] 1QaZxSw2 : ROE exists to made newbies think they are genisues
[2016-06-12 22:53:18] MrRGnome : It is pretty useless. Someone maybe make a short javascript snippet to get a propper estimate
[2016-06-12 22:53:18] rapidtrades : yeah remove ROI
[2016-06-12 22:55:05] luckynuke : where is the difference between roe and roi and what is it ?
[2016-06-12 22:55:22] BTCDJS : yeah Ive been trading a lot better since I ignore it but fuck me its still a bit confusing
[2016-06-12 22:57:12] MrRGnome : the censor here makes it feel like I'm chatting in a soft core porno
[2016-06-12 22:57:44] 1QaZxSw2 : so if you say the f word, it changes it to gently caress?
[2016-06-12 22:57:52] 1QaZxSw2 : gonna try it guys: fuck
[2016-06-12 22:57:53] BTCDJS : yup
[2016-06-12 22:57:56] mrp1nk : fuck yeah
[2016-06-12 22:58:01] 1QaZxSw2 : nice
[2016-06-12 22:58:25] micmix : oh nice, XBJ24H is live and it's quanto
[2016-06-12 22:58:28] 1QaZxSw2 : i have a sudden interest to try all other bad words
[2016-06-12 22:58:53] BTCDJS : shit and bitch don't change
[2016-06-12 22:59:02] jesperf : i want to fuck a vagina
[2016-06-12 22:59:11] jesperf : meh i'll settle for that too
[2016-06-12 22:59:34] BTCDJS : spare a thought for the fucking wankers
[2016-06-12 22:59:40] 1QaZxSw2 : you know what this 14% DPE is bs. i think i'll trade the june contract
[2016-06-12 22:59:52] rapidtrades : jesperf: type the N word
[2016-06-12 23:00:05] BTCDJS : rapidtrades: niagra
[2016-06-12 23:00:21] rapidtrades : :)
[2016-06-12 23:01:18] rapidtrades : cmon guys stop fomoing...i need to eat
[2016-06-12 23:01:39] BTCDJS : i need sleep
[2016-06-12 23:01:47] rapidtrades : its literallly a 24 h pump now
[2016-06-12 23:01:51] rapidtrades : like literally
[2016-06-12 23:01:51] jesperf : i need a life
[2016-06-12 23:02:00] BTCDJS : jesperf: word
[2016-06-12 23:02:37] BTCDJS : i think this is going to turn around soon
[2016-06-12 23:02:40] MrRGnome : the pump to 500 last year lasted about as long as this one has, and increased a saw similar gains. The end could be very near for this pump.
[2016-06-12 23:03:15] 1QaZxSw2 : just gonna test the censor folks. dont be alarmed: cock cunt pussy dick piss shit bitch
[2016-06-12 23:03:22] BTCDJS : the candles are getting smaller
[2016-06-12 23:03:27] MrRGnome : I'm alarmed.
[2016-06-12 23:03:31] 1QaZxSw2 : well, nothing was censored
[2016-06-12 23:03:41] BTCDJS : just fuck
[2016-06-12 23:03:44] rapidtrades : anyone wans to sell their june shit
[2016-06-12 23:04:41] 1QaZxSw2 : did make 30% today, i think 14% of that will be DPE
[2016-06-12 23:05:07] rapidtrades : ^^^ this guy, a math wizard
[2016-06-12 23:05:29] 1QaZxSw2 : which sucks, because the good trades are subsidizing the newbies
[2016-06-12 23:06:04] 1QaZxSw2 : DPE on the june contract is zero
[2016-06-12 23:07:23] 1QaZxSw2 : do you know if we will continue to have the quartierlies or everything will turn into perpetual swap
[2016-06-12 23:08:41] rapidtrades : well arthur set the bar at 100 btc per day...and now we're above that
[2016-06-12 23:08:45] j8 : they wanted to get rid of them because they don't have tons of liquidity and the swap was supposed to be magical
[2016-06-12 23:08:48] rapidtrades : so let's hope he keeps his word :)
[2016-06-12 23:09:25] rapidtrades : when he gave his word they traded like 10 btc each tho :)
[2016-06-12 23:09:45] 1QaZxSw2 : 10 btc per day?
[2016-06-12 23:09:46] j8 : and now they've added XBT/JPY, which no one asked for... so i think they should keep them
[2016-06-12 23:11:11] Yumi : 700 was a perfect short, who would guess..
[2016-06-12 23:11:35] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 4000 @ 679.54
[2016-06-12 23:11:35] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 2476 @ 677.90
[2016-06-12 23:11:48] 1QaZxSw2 : nothing but bots on XBJ
[2016-06-12 23:12:28] messiaen8844 : lets rip that premium
[2016-06-12 23:12:32] rapidtrades : looks like we're done for now...$700 was key as suspected
[2016-06-12 23:12:53] 1QaZxSw2 : this is good for 700 sellers
[2016-06-12 23:12:56] messiaen8844 : $680 spot strong weekly resistance
[2016-06-12 23:13:04] 1QaZxSw2 : DPE will go back to normal i hope
[2016-06-12 23:13:06] Yumi : I guess its ment for japanese traders, so vol will pick up when they advertise it there
[2016-06-12 23:13:48] BitMEX_Arthur : Yumi: Yes that is correct, Quoine will be offering this product to its Japanese traders
[2016-06-12 23:13:59] BitMEX_Arthur : We will release more information about the project once everything is live
[2016-06-12 23:14:04] j8 : 657.75 is where the liquidation is
[2016-06-12 23:14:17] 1QaZxSw2 : btw, when you guys say there is no liquidity on the old futures product, do you mean the spread was large?
[2016-06-12 23:14:38] 1QaZxSw2 : or that nobody but bots trading
[2016-06-12 23:14:56] justinlooking : more that the size is low
[2016-06-12 23:14:56] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Arthur: are we keeping 3m and 6m :) they're now over 100 btc
[2016-06-12 23:15:27] j8 : 1QaZxSw2: there were always secondary to the main liquid contract. plus the long quanto's are really volatile and difficult to price
[2016-06-12 23:16:54] BitMEX_Arthur : today's volume on june and sept was impressive i have to say, it really boils down to market makers, i still haven't seen any trader(s) step up and provide meaningful 24/7 liquidity
[2016-06-12 23:17:09] BitMEX_Arthur : but we are discussing it internally, no decision has been made yet
[2016-06-12 23:17:54] BitMEX_Arthur : as @j8 said, they are very difficult to price
[2016-06-12 23:19:01] 1QaZxSw2 : If you iron out the swap issues, there is no need for long term contracts
[2016-06-12 23:19:14] 1QaZxSw2 : after all, i can just hold the swap for as long as i like
[2016-06-12 23:19:58] Yumi : they are differently structured contracts
[2016-06-12 23:20:15] 1QaZxSw2 : right of course yumi.
[2016-06-12 23:20:43] Yumi : futrue vs swap, quanto vs inverse, one has funding fee
[2016-06-12 23:20:58] 1QaZxSw2 : maybe today is an anomaly, but the DPE is ridiculous
[2016-06-12 23:21:15] 1QaZxSw2 : yumi, for a trader, its all about getting exposure to movement of the underlying
[2016-06-12 23:21:19] j8 : i really like the fact that they're quanto, as illiquid as they are they're still the most liquid bitcoin volatility product
[2016-06-12 23:22:16] rapidtrades : +1
[2016-06-12 23:22:17] 1QaZxSw2 : so its a swap. do you think the avg fomo trader thinks anything other than buy here and sell there
[2016-06-12 23:22:24] Yumi : but for future contract I can lock premium rate for 6months and swap funding changes every 8hrs
[2016-06-12 23:22:36] rapidtrades : +11
[2016-06-12 23:23:02] 1QaZxSw2 : ya, i like quanto, but thats because im bullish
[2016-06-12 23:23:09] 1QaZxSw2 : its a bad deal for bears
[2016-06-12 23:23:13] rapidtrades : i think there's gotta be a discount soon no?
[2016-06-12 23:23:27] rapidtrades : we have 0.8% now plus 1.1% later
[2016-06-12 23:23:42] rapidtrades : almost 2% hit to bullz by rebalance
[2016-06-12 23:24:01] lockhedge : BitMEX_Arthur: would it be possible to create a fixed-for-floating interest swap product for long term holders in addition to XBTUSD?
[2016-06-12 23:24:25] Yumi : rapidtrades: I guess it depends if we pump to new highs or not, fomo strong with traders here
[2016-06-12 23:25:35] rapidtrades : guess it doesn't matter....i'll either get it as price gain or fee
[2016-06-12 23:26:22] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 100 @ 672.78
[2016-06-12 23:26:23] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 80 @ 673.17
[2016-06-12 23:26:23] REKT : Choppy waters make solid seamen!
[2016-06-12 23:26:23] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 500 @ 673.62
[2016-06-12 23:26:37] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTUSD`: Sell 4679 @ 671.57
[2016-06-12 23:26:53] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBTM16`: Sell 311 @ 684.72
[2016-06-12 23:26:53] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBJ24H`: Sell 62 @ 70691.00000
[2016-06-12 23:26:55] wurstgelee : nice
[2016-06-12 23:26:56] wurstgelee : :D
[2016-06-12 23:27:48] 1QaZxSw2 : the swap has some good featurs (perpetual,payments, dollar denominated) but it also has some problems (high DPE, mark price way off trade price)
[2016-06-12 23:28:21] 1QaZxSw2 : my suggestion is fix these issues please.
[2016-06-12 23:28:25] rapidtrades : DPE will always be this high, its not a swap thing
[2016-06-12 23:28:41] rapidtrades : its leverage plus bad execution method
[2016-06-12 23:29:00] 1QaZxSw2 : this is bigger than income tax in many countries
[2016-06-12 23:29:14] 1QaZxSw2 : they have to fix this
[2016-06-12 23:29:45] rapidtrades : the only way to fix it is by cutting leverage which they wont do
[2016-06-12 23:30:25] 1QaZxSw2 : well, if my gains are negated by DPE, what advantahe does the high leverage giv e me
[2016-06-12 23:30:46] rapidtrades : nothing, its a subsidy for losers and gamblors
[2016-06-12 23:30:49] 1QaZxSw2 : its attracting newbies, who just click max leverage and keep losing
[2016-06-12 23:30:56] rapidtrades : no shit
[2016-06-12 23:31:45] rapidtrades : i think we'll see an industry wide change soon for futures clawback
[2016-06-12 23:32:01] rapidtrades : if this rally doesn't cause disaster, another one will
[2016-06-12 23:32:14] rapidtrades : its simply not sustainble to execute orders in this waay
[2016-06-12 23:32:21] 1QaZxSw2 : couple of exchanges are out there who dont do clawback
[2016-06-12 23:32:39] rapidtrades : like who
[2016-06-12 23:32:50] 1QaZxSw2 : cryptofacilities and coinpit
[2016-06-12 23:32:56] rapidtrades : k
[2016-06-12 23:33:06] rapidtrades : noone's gonna trade there
[2016-06-12 23:33:33] 1QaZxSw2 : because?
[2016-06-12 23:33:45] rapidtrades : it sounds gay
[2016-06-12 23:34:33] IChTj4OeMavRq6qeIyEb : Is sleger around?
[2016-06-12 23:35:25] 1QaZxSw2 : well no one was trading on bitmex for 6 months after they opened
[2016-06-12 23:35:26] j8 : he left angrily
[2016-06-12 23:36:02] 1QaZxSw2 : so you never know.... but you are right about clawbacks, they may attract regulation
[2016-06-12 23:36:53] 1QaZxSw2 : i was hoping the swap would eliminate the DPE
[2016-06-12 23:36:57] micmix : j8: sleger left completely? I missed that.
[2016-06-12 23:37:00] 1QaZxSw2 : because the interest payment
[2016-06-12 23:37:09] 1QaZxSw2 : would counter the premium
[2016-06-12 23:37:17] j8 : micmix: he didn't close his position on june, i would have noticed
[2016-06-12 23:37:30] 1QaZxSw2 : sleger is a whale?
[2016-06-12 23:37:47] micmix : yeah, he said 100k short
[2016-06-12 23:38:06] j8 : but he was quite upset about the sudden change, then later said he closed his long on the swap and wasn't gonna trade here anymore. and we haven't heard from him since
[2016-06-12 23:39:10] 1QaZxSw2 : maybe if they drop the leverage to 10x
[2016-06-12 23:39:20] 1QaZxSw2 : DPE will be down to 5%
[2016-06-12 23:39:26] 1QaZxSw2 : i could live with that
[2016-06-12 23:40:14] micmix : he'll probably ride his short til expiry then withdraw everything. that's too bad, I'll miss sleger
[2016-06-12 23:41:26] j8 : yeah, i get why he's mad.
[2016-06-12 23:43:22] micmix : yeah, I understand but tbh swap looked like a beta product, I wouldn't risk entering such big positions
[2016-06-12 23:43:40] j8 : yeah, there were so many red flags from the start
[2016-06-12 23:43:57] 1QaZxSw2 : such as?
[2016-06-12 23:44:04] j8 : plus 20% DPE on the same day. not fun
[2016-06-12 23:45:56] j8 : 1QaZxSw2: before it launched it was clear that it wouldn't work. we had long discussions in the chat where i explained how the DPE risk would be massive if the swap didn't track spot, and i argued that it was likely it would diverge
[2016-06-12 23:46:20] 1QaZxSw2 : ah, ok
[2016-06-12 23:46:50] 1QaZxSw2 : so a swap without leverage would have worked great
[2016-06-12 23:46:54] j8 : i couldn't understand how it was related to the spot price at all, except in terms of unrealised pnl
[2016-06-12 23:47:54] j8 : and there's no way to arbitrage the premium that doesn't involve letting yourself get liquidated, and since there's a premium that liquidation is gonna be way behind the market and won't fill
[2016-06-12 23:48:36] j8 : their response to all this was basically that of course it would track spot so don't worry
[2016-06-12 23:48:43] lockhedge : it's related to spot, but the index components currently have a range from 669 to 686
[2016-06-12 23:49:08] j8 : and if it diverged, they would do something like change the way rates are set to bring it in line with spot
[2016-06-12 23:50:32] 1QaZxSw2 : how is that even possible? They would fiddle with the interest payments?
[2016-06-12 23:50:41] 1QaZxSw2 : like on a live contract?
[2016-06-12 23:50:55] j8 : they did it last night
[2016-06-12 23:51:12] j8 : changed the calculation completely in an aggressive way
[2016-06-12 23:51:24] 1QaZxSw2 : way to f___ your users
[2016-06-12 23:51:35] j8 : with like 12 hours notice
[2016-06-12 23:51:39] j8 : less even
[2016-06-12 23:52:50] j8 : in the middle of this crazy price action too.
[2016-06-12 23:53:01] j8 : now nobody knows what they're doing trading this thing
[2016-06-12 23:54:35] 1QaZxSw2 : first of all, i don't think most traders even understand what a swap is. they probably think its an unexpiring futures
[2016-06-12 23:55:35] 1QaZxSw2 : second, i dont see the reason for the premium in a inverse contract
[2016-06-12 23:55:43] 1QaZxSw2 : at least not this big
[2016-06-12 23:56:35] 1QaZxSw2 : third, i dont know how the interest rate can ever be calculated to bring the mark price in line with spot, unless its a turn the wheel till it reaches it approach
[2016-06-12 23:57:07] j8 : theoretically the premium would be related to the difference in actual lending market rates, but with high leverage things get out of control. it's just supply and demand in the end
[2016-06-12 23:58:03] 1QaZxSw2 : what they should actually do is to reduce leverage to 5x. and maybe also tie it to spot somehow
[2016-06-12 23:58:18] j8 : and for an infinite duration contract that trades freely it's hard to interpret the premium as being related to interest rates in a straightforward way
[2016-06-12 23:58:50] 1QaZxSw2 : basically a perpetual swap is a proxy for spot but leveraged
[2016-06-12 23:58:53] arbitrage001 : premium mostly due to capital control in china
[2016-06-12 23:59:18] arbitrage001 : if money can move freely in china, dont think it will be this high
[2016-06-12 23:59:19] j8 : 1QaZxSw2: yes, there needs to be a channel for arbitrage though
[2016-06-13 00:00:02] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTM16`: Buy 1000 @ 710.70
[2016-06-13 00:00:04] 1QaZxSw2 : i think the real issue is that its overleveraged, leading to very high number of liquidations, leading to high DPE, pissing off traders
[2016-06-13 00:00:09] Yumi : if its only ment for gambler type of trader who doesnt care about anything just a chance to win big its a fine product, but for serious trader is close to not tradable
[2016-06-13 00:00:47] 1QaZxSw2 : i gambled a bit on this, but i find it pretty much untradeable. i only won today because of the crazy
[2016-06-13 00:01:01] 1QaZxSw2 : crazy move up
[2016-06-13 00:01:25] 1QaZxSw2 : i think reducing the leverage may make it an ok product
[2016-06-13 00:01:41] 1QaZxSw2 : still has issues, but low DPE may bring more traders
[2016-06-13 00:01:47] Yumi : but majority wants as big leverage as possible
[2016-06-13 00:01:52] j8 : the thing is, they had 100x futures which were perfectly fine
[2016-06-13 00:02:07] 1QaZxSw2 : why did they change it
[2016-06-13 00:02:08] rapidtrades : ffs not that shit again
[2016-06-13 00:02:10] j8 : people just didn't like entering a new position every day
[2016-06-13 00:02:13] rapidtrades : they were not fine
[2016-06-13 00:02:13] jung1 : hello
[2016-06-13 00:02:29] jung1 : so officiall halving pump started?
[2016-06-13 00:02:33] j8 : the fees involved were too high.
[2016-06-13 00:02:54] Yumi : its very simple if 90% of traders want 100x and are fine with DPE then it will be that way
[2016-06-13 00:02:59] j8 : but jeez why not do weekly inverse futures like okc, but do it better
[2016-06-13 00:03:05] rapidtrades : in the past year alone there was two 20-30% dpe before the swap
[2016-06-13 00:03:19] rapidtrades : its tied to volaility not the product
[2016-06-13 00:03:30] arbitrage001 : j8: lending rate were high on finex in the old day
[2016-06-13 00:03:39] rapidtrades : happened in november/decemner its happening now
[2016-06-13 00:03:40] arbitrage001 : consistently 1-3% a day
[2016-06-13 00:04:43] arbitrage001 : and they had 5 times leverage if i remember right
[2016-06-13 00:04:53] j8 : rapidtrades: the DPE last august was really before there was any liquidity on the exchange.. there was basically one time since it's been similar to now
[2016-06-13 00:05:31] rapidtrades : if u don't want DPE u have to dump shit at the market....but in order for that to be viable u prolly have to reduce leverage so liqs are smaller and happen less often
[2016-06-13 00:05:38] rapidtrades : j8: I SAID NOVEMBER DECEMBER
[2016-06-13 00:05:48] j8 : the structure of the swap means thats DPE will be a chronic problem
[2016-06-13 00:05:57] rapidtrades : i don't agree
[2016-06-13 00:06:02] rapidtrades : that swap is problem
[2016-06-13 00:06:04] j8 : not only when there's volatility and poor liquidity
[2016-06-13 00:07:07] j8 : when you don't mark to market, you automatically have a worse chance of filling liquidations favourably
[2016-06-13 00:07:19] rapidtrades : prolly true
[2016-06-13 00:07:49] arbitrage001 : long will pay this dpe again?
[2016-06-13 00:07:50] Yumi : reason for troubles - mark price was so far from order book, they try to fix with by charging premium in swap funding
[2016-06-13 00:07:50] rapidtrades : but the deciding factor is volaility...there were no issues with the swap until today
[2016-06-13 00:08:09] ayy_lmao : https://matias.ma/nsfw/
[2016-06-13 00:08:10] ayy_lmao : your welcome
[2016-06-13 00:08:15] ayy_lmao : you're
[2016-06-13 00:08:56] j8 : lots of insurance fund was spent on one of the previous legs up
[2016-06-13 00:09:43] j8 : as soon as the swap was live, the insurance fund stopped increasing and started decreasing
[2016-06-13 00:10:31] jung1 : kurwa, ayy_Imao
[2016-06-13 00:10:37] jung1 : we are serious traders
[2016-06-13 00:10:44] arbitrage001 : when this rally end, i suspect both long and short will both angry
[2016-06-13 00:10:48] jung1 : with funny internet money
[2016-06-13 00:11:23] ayy_lmao : lol
[2016-06-13 00:12:05] Mr Blue : I don't see how long could be angry, I've only been away like 5 hours and its up $17
[2016-06-13 00:12:28] jung1 : so you guys think that halving pump begin?
[2016-06-13 00:12:33] jung1 : already
[2016-06-13 00:13:10] Mr Blue : jung1: it started last year mate, but true pump will be a month after halving if it starts to happen
[2016-06-13 00:13:25] jung1 : yeah I know
[2016-06-13 00:13:51] jung1 : good time to buy factom/eth lisk
[2016-06-13 00:14:26] Yumi : its always good time to buy shitcoins
[2016-06-13 00:14:31] Mr Blue : Bears will be angry though, the priumum in price will of been to attract shorters, it didn't fool me but you can't blame them for trying lol
[2016-06-13 00:15:20] Mr Blue : I called 670 ;-) well for coinbase at least
[2016-06-13 00:15:51] arbitrage001 : Mr Blue: the swap is basically USD
[2016-06-13 00:16:02] justinlooking : increasing grouping on factom makes the bid disappeaer (presumably coz theres only 1 price to group)
[2016-06-13 00:16:22] arbitrage001 : Mr Blue: people who short using 1 to 1 leverage will not lose any money other than dpe
[2016-06-13 00:17:03] Mr Blue : arbitrage001: true but who uses x1 leverage? I have other exchanges for that lol
[2016-06-13 00:17:21] arbitrage001 : Mr Blue: when rate is this high, many do
[2016-06-13 00:17:30] arbitrage001 : are you sure you know what you are doing?
[2016-06-13 00:18:10] Mr Blue : erm I'm not in a position at the moment mate, and ye pretty sure lol but thanks for the offer of help
[2016-06-13 00:18:26] Yumi : I used to arbitrage with bitfinex but when there were 50btc in found and not 10% outstanding DPE and empty found
[2016-06-13 00:19:35] Yumi : if there would be no profit cuts there would be no premium
[2016-06-13 00:20:04] Mr Blue : arbitrage001: I didn't short if that's what you was thinking, I new it was going up lol, just saying the premium over spot will of been to catch bears as it did look attractive to short for the untrained eye
[2016-06-13 00:23:19] Mr Blue : Yumi: I'm still new here, but I seen j8 say something about bitmex has investment to conver any loss from yesterday, so I think fund will get some BTC added again, + hopefully the culled few bears today lol the furs will sell good on the open market
[2016-06-13 00:25:03] Yumi : if there was profit cut yesterday and open DPE atm I understand that fund is empty
[2016-06-13 00:25:14] Mr Blue : I think they should allow spot to move closer to market now though, as risk of a drop is increasing for them.
[2016-06-13 00:26:25] Mr Blue : I mean not keep the premium if market makers after lucky enough for spot to join market price here
[2016-06-13 00:26:36] Mr Blue : are lucky*
[2016-06-13 00:28:10] Yumi : I dont trade the swap anyway
[2016-06-13 00:29:25] Mr Blue : Yumi: was big buying at 580/585 yesterday before pump, somebody made over $100,000 profit here for sure lol
[2016-06-13 00:29:45] Yumi : its good for gamble with 50x (or used to 100x) and thats it
[2016-06-13 00:30:40] Mr Blue : Yumi: x50 is too risky for me, x10 seems to be my average at the moment, but I've been known to go x35
[2016-06-13 00:30:49] Yumi : if you hit the top/bottom of the move you win big and if you are wrong you lose little and can try again
[2016-06-13 00:32:31] Mr Blue : Yumi: true or lose alot if you got greedy lol, I like to keep 50% of my funds incase price swings and I need to buy more to lower my average
[2016-06-13 00:32:48] Yumi : you dont lose a lot if you put just small % on the line
[2016-06-13 00:32:59] Mr Blue : true
[2016-06-13 00:33:24] Mr Blue : brb guys 420 time for me ;-)
[2016-06-13 00:34:31] Yumi : like today you see we were getting close to 700 here so you put isolated margin short at 700 at 50x, high chance for it to be top and you have high margin of error since mark price is 10-15 usd lower
[2016-06-13 00:35:01] Yumi : if you are wrong you get liq and try again another time
[2016-06-13 00:36:57] Mr Blue : better to not set orders at this point, yesterday was fine but today too risky, if I'm buying/selling I'll be doing it at a time I can actually see the spot price, not when I'm alseep,, but its normally fine, we've just seen hyper action past 24h
[2016-06-13 00:38:22] rapidtrades : do we have any idea what will be the next fee? i assume the max 1.1%
[2016-06-13 00:38:23] Yumi : its not good to sleep with swap position open since bitmex changes the rules with only few hrs notice
[2016-06-13 00:42:08] j8 : rapidtrades: so far yeah the average is probably around 1.5%, still 3 hours left
[2016-06-13 00:42:25] Yumi : 687 buy vs 668 index, yea looks like max ;)
[2016-06-13 00:43:59] arbitrage001 : rapidtrades: think the max fee is per 8 hours
[2016-06-13 00:44:17] arbitrage001 : so multiple by 3 for daily rate
[2016-06-13 00:44:31] arbitrage001 : over 2.5 using projected rate
[2016-06-13 00:44:48] Yumi : maybe there is no max anymore so next rate 2% per 8hrs
[2016-06-13 00:45:04] arbitrage001 : Yumi: they said cap it at 1.25%
[2016-06-13 00:45:10] Yumi : I know
[2016-06-13 00:45:11] arbitrage001 : Yumi: or 1.125
[2016-06-13 00:45:15] Yumi : but who knows
[2016-06-13 00:45:19] arbitrage001 : Yumi: which is per session
[2016-06-13 00:45:32] arbitrage001 : Yumi: i think
[2016-06-13 00:45:37] j8 : it's capped at a change of 0.375%
[2016-06-13 00:45:44] BitMEX_Arthur : The maximum rate is 75% of IM - MM, which is 1.125%
[2016-06-13 00:45:50] Yumi : you cant be sure with bitmex ;)
[2016-06-13 00:45:57] arbitrage001 : j8: only cap at rate of change?
[2016-06-13 00:46:02] BitMEX_Arthur : j8: Is correct it can't change by more tha 0.375% per period
[2016-06-13 00:46:10] arbitrage001 : j8: wouldnt mind getting paid 3-5% a day lol
[2016-06-13 00:46:14] BitMEX_Arthur : Which is 75% of the MM
[2016-06-13 00:46:19] arbitrage001 : BitMEX_Arthur: there is no cap rate?
[2016-06-13 00:46:26] j8 : ok and the absolute rate is also capped at 1.125%?
[2016-06-13 00:46:30] BitMEX_Arthur : correct
[2016-06-13 00:46:38] BitMEX_Arthur : or 75% of IM - MM
[2016-06-13 00:46:45] BitMEX_Arthur : Initial Margin - Maintenance Margin
[2016-06-13 00:46:50] arbitrage001 : 1.125% is per 8 hours cap?
[2016-06-13 00:46:57] arbitrage001 : or per day cap?
[2016-06-13 00:47:05] j8 : arbitrage001: no kidding and you can do it with leverage if you're careful too
[2016-06-13 00:47:15] j8 : sorry a couple comments behind
[2016-06-13 00:47:29] BitMEX_Arthur : arbitrage001: That is the absolute cap
[2016-06-13 00:47:42] BitMEX_Arthur : If the IM and MM levels change, the cap till change as well
[2016-06-13 00:47:49] 1QaZxSw2 : does dpe affect shorts too?