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<< >> English 中文 Русский 한국어 日本語 Español Français [2016-06-12 00:37:02] rentchev : $10 premium now on XBTUSD [2016-06-12 00:37:04] j8 : on the top 25 by ROE, the way they calculate ROE is whack.. basically if you withdraw your profits and then later deposit them, it counts as a higher initial equity and your ROE goes down. so even though they're not on the list they might have much higher ROE [2016-06-12 00:37:30] rentchev : I see [2016-06-12 00:38:06] rentchev : it would make sense to calculate based on deposit and withdrawal as well [2016-06-12 00:38:18] Mars! : What is the unit of size on order book ? [2016-06-12 00:38:20] rentchev : since they know all transactions [2016-06-12 00:38:20] Mr Blue : rentchev: its a long story I won't go over it again tonight mate, will just check over trading logs tomorrow or something [2016-06-12 00:38:57] rentchev : ok Mr Blue [2016-06-12 00:39:09] rentchev : Mars!: unit size is 1 contract [2016-06-12 00:39:17] rentchev : each contract has different value [2016-06-12 00:39:28] rentchev : for example XBTUSD has a value of 1 USD [2016-06-12 00:40:01] rentchev : XBTU16 on the other hand - 1 contract = 0.0073 XBT [2016-06-12 00:40:12] rentchev : you can see all this in the bottom left [2016-06-12 00:46:41] rentchev : 585-590 turned support now [2016-06-12 00:47:17] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 400 @ 614.32 [2016-06-12 00:47:17] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 5724 @ 614.20 [2016-06-12 00:47:18] Mars! : rentchev: thanks, clear that. [2016-06-12 00:47:22] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 23247 @ 614.53 **MEGA-REKT** :boom: [2016-06-12 00:47:48] rentchev : Mars!: np [2016-06-12 00:47:58] Moo : holy cow [2016-06-12 00:49:02] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTM16`: Buy 550 @ 641.03 [2016-06-12 00:49:17] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 7915 @ 618.85 [2016-06-12 00:49:17] REKT : Gentlemen, we have an eREKTion! [2016-06-12 00:49:28] billz : god i feel like i sold too early at 625 [2016-06-12 00:49:37] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 15 @ 619.29 [2016-06-12 00:49:39] rentchev : lol REKT [2016-06-12 00:49:52] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 21 @ 619.97 [2016-06-12 00:50:27] Moo : this is so much money entering the market [2016-06-12 00:50:32] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 18291 @ 621.91 [2016-06-12 00:50:55] rentchev : 621? [2016-06-12 00:50:56] Moo : where is it gonna stop? [2016-06-12 00:51:04] rentchev : price is 638 now [2016-06-12 00:51:10] Moo : everybody joking about 1000... might not be a joke [2016-06-12 00:51:20] BTCDJS : 650 is the top I'm sure of it [2016-06-12 00:51:37] rentchev : BTCDJS: top for what timeframe? [2016-06-12 00:51:40] rentchev : for today? [2016-06-12 00:51:41] rentchev : lol [2016-06-12 00:51:44] BTCDJS : for now anyway [2016-06-12 00:51:56] BTCDJS : rentchev: yes [2016-06-12 00:51:58] Mr Blue : I think spot will rest at 625 or lower before push, but could be wrong [2016-06-12 00:52:37] micmix : sleger: you're welcome to invest in micmix hedge fund :wink: [2016-06-12 00:54:07] rentchev : he he [2016-06-12 00:54:42] rentchev : micmix: we will give you access by API [2016-06-12 00:54:52] rentchev : 5 BTC good? [2016-06-12 00:57:33] dharmabum : here we go again [2016-06-12 00:58:01] Moo : is this like... a government trying to get into btc? [2016-06-12 00:58:50] Mr Blue : Moo: would be nice [2016-06-12 00:59:06] rentchev : Moo: that's nothing [2016-06-12 00:59:14] dharmabum : besst way to hedge BTC against price drop vs USD? [2016-06-12 00:59:16] rentchev : this is actually not much money going in at the moment [2016-06-12 00:59:25] rentchev : wait when $ billions try to get in [2016-06-12 00:59:27] micmix : but seriously this is a dev/test account, I only deposited 4 coins to this account to test new algos [2016-06-12 00:59:32] rentchev : it will be crazy [2016-06-12 01:00:31] Moo : when I told my friends "this is the last $500 coin you will see", I should have longed [2016-06-12 01:00:36] Moo : i just sat it out until now [2016-06-12 01:00:45] Moo : with my few coins [2016-06-12 01:00:56] sleger : put your money where your mouth is or shut up [2016-06-12 01:05:01] j8 : no big liquidations yet on june or sept. i can't wait! [2016-06-12 01:05:07] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 30 @ 623.69 [2016-06-12 01:05:07] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 200 @ 623.48 [2016-06-12 01:05:07] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 80000 @ 623.64 **EPIC REKT** :unamused: :confounded: :astonished: [2016-06-12 01:05:21] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTU16`: Buy 232 @ 752.50 [2016-06-12 01:05:22] Mr Blue : rentchev: ye but we could always get some 100,000 BTC dumping idiot, hopefully coins would reach stronger hands, but its a possiblity [2016-06-12 01:05:33] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 1400 @ 624.55 [2016-06-12 01:05:55] BTCVIX : we got pizpie price calling on TS -- ts.whaleclub.io [2016-06-12 01:07:33] Mr Blue : if governments got involved, would all be eaten for sure [2016-06-12 01:07:38] micmix : j8: june had very low premium for a while, probably no big players shorting the premium to rekt [2016-06-12 01:08:11] micmix : my bot almost closed the june long by now [2016-06-12 01:08:19] j8 : 400k in shorts have impressive resolve [2016-06-12 01:08:42] dharmabum : j8: heh. absolutely. [2016-06-12 01:09:07] sleger : 13% dpe well done bitmex [2016-06-12 01:09:26] j8 : i've been waiting for a chance to close long on june, just haven't had the liquidity when the price is right [2016-06-12 01:10:25] micmix : yeah, hard to do without a bot [2016-06-12 01:11:18] micmix : have to wait for a big liquidation [2016-06-12 01:14:06] j8 : i use a bot, problem is i still feel the market is undervaluing june. will probably just hold to expiry [2016-06-12 01:14:47] sleger : 3% premium for <2 weeks is not bad [2016-06-12 01:15:10] j8 : with okc at 2.25%, it's pretty bad [2016-06-12 01:15:36] sleger : oh you mean june here sorry [2016-06-12 01:16:00] sleger : im short 100k contracts, i will keep until expiry as well [2016-06-12 01:16:46] j8 : implied vol is well below the 30 day historical vol [2016-06-12 01:17:43] micmix : I will close all of it today but maybe holding to expiry would be better. Premium was jumping up and down lately. [2016-06-12 01:21:18] sam : finally a big loooong green dick shoved down ggwp's throat [2016-06-12 01:21:34] sam : his spam was getting bloody irritating [2016-06-12 01:23:58] billz : rip bears [2016-06-12 01:24:05] ayy_lmao : y chat so savage [2016-06-12 01:32:03] billz : cause this is so hype [2016-06-12 01:33:02] CrazyEarner : oh lord another exchange and a troll box heaven forbid :P [2016-06-12 01:33:35] j8 : it's been way more trolly lately [2016-06-12 01:33:42] miramm1115 : DPE clearing up a bit [2016-06-12 01:33:52] miramm1115 : oops, wrong account again [2016-06-12 01:33:54] j8 : even wally trolls a bit [2016-06-12 01:35:09] CrazyEarner : Does this site allow you to sell for USD and cashout or no fiat options? [2016-06-12 01:35:26] micmix : quality of bitmex chat is inversely correlated with bitcoin price [2016-06-12 01:35:47] j8 : no fiat @CrazyEarner [2016-06-12 01:35:55] Mr Blue : CrazyEarner: welcome, no just BTC here, but nice leverage options. [2016-06-12 01:37:15] CrazyEarner : how does that work on here the leverage just buy and leave alone n let it do its thing [2016-06-12 01:38:09] Mr Blue : CrazyEarner: no you move it up and down, try start with x5 see how you go [2016-06-12 01:38:46] Mr Blue : CrazyEarner: its on the left hand side the bar with x1 x2 x5 and so on [2016-06-12 01:38:53] CrazyEarner : I know how to trade jsut not on this type platfom lol [2016-06-12 01:39:18] Mr Blue : cool [2016-06-12 01:39:24] j8 : CrazyEarner: lots of reading to do, start here: https://www.bitmex.com/app/tradingOverview [2016-06-12 01:42:12] CrazyEarner : ok cool last one how does one depost eTH here or is it just purly BTC only [2016-06-12 01:43:19] billz : btc only, read that page he linked [2016-06-12 01:46:26] CrazyEarner : REading now so tihkn i get it all profit bTC based on ETH prices and so forth and contracts and futures etc [2016-06-12 01:48:02] j8 : yes. it's simple that way, especially for ETHXBT, it's pretty much exactly like trading eth spot [2016-06-12 01:48:44] j8 : except the way funding costs work is a bit different. [2016-06-12 01:57:10] micmix : j8: do you have data on max premium on swap today? [2016-06-12 01:57:50] j8 : not logged, but the highest i remember seeing it was a little over 2% [2016-06-12 01:58:16] micmix : thanks, I really should start logging that [2016-06-12 01:58:38] CrazyEarner : is this irc chat intergrated with web chat ? [2016-06-12 01:58:50] j8 : micmix: but wait, theres https://www.bitmex.com/app/index/.XBTUSDPI [2016-06-12 01:59:02] micmix : oh yeah, cool [2016-06-12 01:59:03] CrazyEarner : looks like it is i see me on chat and irc :) nice little feature [2016-06-12 02:00:26] j8 : was 3.1184% over spot on a spike apparently [2016-06-12 02:01:40] micmix : {"symbol":".XBTUSDPI","timestamp":"2016-06-12T00:50:00.000Z","price":0.031184} [2016-06-12 02:02:06] micmix : yep, found it too [2016-06-12 02:07:23] j8 : `XBTUSD` peaked at 640, index was 621.41 [2016-06-12 02:09:21] j8 : or somewhere between 618.43 at 00:49:00 and 621.41 at 00:50:00 [2016-06-12 02:15:49] BitMEX_Wally : You can see the historical XBTUSD vs .XBT premium here: https://www.bitmex.com/app/index/.XBTUSDPI [2016-06-12 02:16:12] asdfman : What am I looking at? [2016-06-12 02:16:30] BitMEX_Wally : The premium of XBTUSD over .XBT [2016-06-12 02:16:39] BitMEX_Wally : Expressed as a percentage [2016-06-12 02:16:52] BitMEX_Wally : So it is currently 0.8607% [2016-06-12 02:17:18] j8 : BitMEX_Wally: is it mid price or last traded? [2016-06-12 02:17:30] asdfman : .XBT being what? I know I should have RTFM, but.. is that low? [2016-06-12 02:17:59] BitMEX_Wally : fundingRate+(impactBidPrice above fairPrice)%indicativeSettlePrice [2016-06-12 02:18:19] BitMEX_Wally : (or impactAskPrice below fairPrice) if discount [2016-06-12 02:18:26] j8 : i see [2016-06-12 02:18:34] asdfman : sure [2016-06-12 02:19:05] BitMEX_Wally : So if the funding rate is 0.30% and XBTUSD impact bid price is trading 0.10% above the fair price then the total premium is 0.40% [2016-06-12 02:20:25] asdfman : more longers push rate up? [2016-06-12 02:20:30] BitMEX_Wally : Yes [2016-06-12 02:20:49] BitMEX_Wally : `.XBT` is the underlying price of Bitcoin on Bitfinex, Bitstamp, OKC [2016-06-12 02:20:51] asdfman : not just more volume? [2016-06-12 02:21:01] asdfman : ok [2016-06-12 02:21:06] BitMEX_Wally : People are currently bidding the XBTUSD swap up 6 dollars above the Bitcoin price [2016-06-12 02:21:42] rentchev : premium was $12 at one point earlier [2016-06-12 02:22:16] BitMEX_Wally : We are going to use this premium index set the funding rate, which will help bring the premium down and avoid DPE [2016-06-12 02:23:21] asdfman : how does your orderbook @ stamp look? [2016-06-12 02:23:32] rapidtrades : I did half my time and got out for good behavior [2016-06-12 02:23:51] rapidtrades : true story [2016-06-12 02:24:10] rapidtrades : there were lot of RekTed ppl in there man... [2016-06-12 02:24:23] BitMEX_Wally : Any changes to the funding rate will take a little while, because it cannot increase by more than 75% of maintenance margin (i.e. 0.375%) at a time [2016-06-12 02:24:45] sleger : rapidtrades: go back out [2016-06-12 02:24:51] sleger : see you tomorrow [2016-06-12 02:25:01] rapidtrades : ....u srs? we're at 621 lol [2016-06-12 02:25:16] rapidtrades : how about go with the spirit of the deal lol [2016-06-12 02:25:20] asdfman : here its spread is 606-607 @ stamp. whut? [2016-06-12 02:25:38] asdfman : is it retarded? :/ [2016-06-12 02:26:50] j8 : BitMEX_Wally: interested to see how that works out. something definitely needs to be done. my first thought is the lag in the funding rate could be a problem. [2016-06-12 02:27:13] BitMEX_Wally : j8: It's only an 8 hour lag [2016-06-12 02:28:17] CrazyEarner : lol lag sounding like another gox lol [2016-06-12 02:29:13] asdfman : could jump quite ffffast [2016-06-12 02:29:26] Blargwaffle : You're comparing bitmex to gox? [2016-06-12 02:29:49] j8 : which is pretty good, although it's more than enough time for all the premiums to turn to discounts while the price crashes. it's a start anyway [2016-06-12 02:30:29] sleger : i bet that in 3 months people come to their senses and mark the swap to market just like xbtusd was [2016-06-12 02:30:35] CrazyEarner : no just stating like when gox use to have lag and people talking bout 8 hour lag reminds me of gox trading days when massive lag on trades lol [2016-06-12 02:32:02] Blargwaffle : Ahkay. [2016-06-12 02:32:53] j8 : that's a very different thing. [2016-06-12 02:33:46] asdfman : how will one be affected if one goes 50x long 100k and the price rockets right after? the rates will eat the contracts, yeh? [2016-06-12 02:34:17] asdfman : eat into, over time [2016-06-12 02:36:57] asdfman : I mean, is .XBTUSDPI the cost of having a contract? [2016-06-12 02:37:16] micmix : BitMEX_Wally: do you log impact mid price? I would like to run some analysis if it's available [2016-06-12 02:37:47] BitMEX_Wally : micmix: We publish it on the instrument table but there's no history [2016-06-12 02:38:00] j8 : if the price goes up you made a lot of money. the price has to go up on average more than the interest rate, but that's usually around 0.05% a day (price needs to go up 31 cents a day on average). maybe rates will spike to 0.5% a day, which would hurt if it lasted for a while @asdfman [2016-06-12 02:38:05] micmix : BitMEX_Wally: ok, I'll start logging myself [2016-06-12 02:39:15] asdfman : j8: thanks. and "a while" being many 8h cycles, I guess? [2016-06-12 02:40:08] BitMEX_Wally : The swap will reach an equilibrium with the fundingRate [2016-06-12 02:40:35] BitMEX_Wally : If the premium is 1% then the funding rate going up by 0.3% might collapse the premium [2016-06-12 02:40:53] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Wally: hope so [2016-06-12 02:40:57] BitMEX_Wally : i.e. it will encourage more shorts to come into the market [2016-06-12 02:41:16] sq : BitMEX_Wally: when r u guys incorporating the new funding rate, ie includes premium [2016-06-12 02:41:22] j8 : well, say it's 0.5% for two days, you pay 1% on your position notional, which is a lot. but the reason it's that high is because everyone wants to be long, because the price is going up. the price probably went up a lot more than 1% in that two days, so you're still way in the green @asdfman [2016-06-12 02:42:09] BitMEX_Wally : sq: We will send out an announcement soon. The new fundingRate will be set at 12:00 UTC and charged at 20:00 UTC [2016-06-12 02:42:25] BitMEX_Wally : So you have 16 hours' notice [2016-06-12 02:42:36] sleger : yeah cause 20-12=16? [2016-06-12 02:42:41] sq : ok so the shorters will new receive the premium? [2016-06-12 02:43:04] BitMEX_Wally : sleger: It is currently 02:42 UTC [2016-06-12 02:43:22] asdfman : aha. I think I got it. so basically, @j8 , it might also end up eating everything if held long enough? like compare it with the rate of BTC-creation. [2016-06-12 02:43:32] sleger : 12-2=16 or 20-2=16 ? [2016-06-12 02:44:14] BitMEX_Wally : Fine, you have at least 16 hours notice, i.e. 17 hours and 16 minutes [2016-06-12 02:44:45] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Wally: an announcement for what [2016-06-12 02:44:55] BitMEX_Wally : The announcement email will come out at 04:00 UTC [2016-06-12 02:44:59] sq : BitMEX_Wally: will u be paying out the full premium once everyday? [2016-06-12 02:45:03] rapidtrades : what's it about [2016-06-12 02:45:09] j8 : yeah, even when the market's not super bullish, funding costs could be say 10% annualised. if it was a 10x leveraged long, that would eat your entire equity in a year. assuming the price didn't go up [2016-06-12 02:45:16] sleger : and it starts tomorrow, wow that's short notice [2016-06-12 02:45:26] rapidtrades : what starts tomorrow [2016-06-12 02:45:33] rapidtrades : WHAT'S GOING ON [2016-06-12 02:45:40] sleger : you're banned get out [2016-06-12 02:45:49] BitMEX_Wally : rapidtrades: We're talking about your mom [2016-06-12 02:46:01] sq : lol [2016-06-12 02:46:17] sleger : lol [2016-06-12 02:47:03] messiaen8844 : lol [2016-06-12 02:47:12] asdfman : Is it possible to add functionality to calculator? [2016-06-12 02:47:47] asdfman : like to inclue existing contracts in to show new possible liq. price [2016-06-12 02:48:01] asdfman : open poss.. [2016-06-12 02:48:20] BitMEX_Wally : asdfman: Yes, it is on the todo list [2016-06-12 02:48:29] asdfman : cool [2016-06-12 02:48:55] sleger : so i opened a 1k btc long position on the swap, paying some of that premium and now you are going to reduce it without me having anything in exchange, isn't that unfair for the people long in the position ? @BitMEX_Wally [2016-06-12 02:49:14] rapidtrades : woah, sweet [2016-06-12 02:49:45] j8 : the Central Bank of BitMEX has spoken. sell! [2016-06-12 02:49:58] BitMEX_Wally : You can close your long and earn the premium [2016-06-12 02:50:09] sleger : that's changing the terms of the contract while in the position [2016-06-12 02:50:13] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Wally: is he srs? what will u do [2016-06-12 02:50:23] sleger : terms which have a serious impact on pricing [2016-06-12 02:50:32] asdfman : market is reducing, no? [2016-06-12 02:50:34] rapidtrades : jacking rates or what [2016-06-12 02:50:41] asdfman : you agreed on precious market [2016-06-12 02:50:46] asdfman : previous [2016-06-12 02:50:56] sleger : if you want to do that you should do it VERY progressively over a longer period, ie 2 weeks at least [2016-06-12 02:51:01] BitMEX_Wally : The goal is to reduce to premium so it is better for those going long, and to better reward shorts [2016-06-12 02:51:14] asdfman : sleger: who? [2016-06-12 02:51:23] rapidtrades : sleger: nah man its cool [2016-06-12 02:51:24] sleger : i understand but you're costing money to the ones currently long [2016-06-12 02:51:43] rapidtrades : bitmex +1 [2016-06-12 02:51:46] BitMEX_Arthur : There is a lag between when the rate is published and then charged so you will have an opportunity to close your position or go net short. [2016-06-12 02:51:46] sleger : create a new contract and settle the existing one at mark price in 2 weeks then [2016-06-12 02:52:10] sleger : BitMEX_Arthur: No, you annoncing it already impacts the market, just look at the premium now [2016-06-12 02:52:35] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Arthur: can u explain what will happen? wally is not helpful [2016-06-12 02:52:43] sleger : you just lowered the price of the swap by changing the terms @BitMEX_Arthur [2016-06-12 02:52:51] sleger : and you cant do that [2016-06-12 02:52:55] messiaen8844 : rapidtrades: you want details about your mom? nasty [2016-06-12 02:52:55] BitMEX_Arthur : Wait for the announcement it will be out in an hour or so [2016-06-12 02:53:21] asdfman : I want details about his mom [2016-06-12 02:53:42] BitMEX_Wally : asdfman: Let's just say she was trading at a discount [2016-06-12 02:53:48] rapidtrades : wtf.... [2016-06-12 02:53:59] rapidtrades : strip wally of his modship [2016-06-12 02:54:18] BitMEX_Wally : `/mode -o BitMEX_Wally` [2016-06-12 02:54:20] micmix : oh wow, Wally trolling [2016-06-12 02:54:33] asdfman : was it a pretty please, with sugar on top? [2016-06-12 02:54:43] asdfman : or just straight out go [2016-06-12 02:54:47] micmix : can't believe my eyes!!! [2016-06-12 02:55:19] asdfman : very kind anyway [2016-06-12 02:55:23] sleger : BitMEX_Arthur: I am long 0.6m$ of the swap, if the announcement has a significant impact on the pricing of the swap then it's not okay [2016-06-12 02:55:43] sq : sleger: if u r, time to get out haha [2016-06-12 02:56:36] rapidtrades : ^^^ [2016-06-12 02:57:54] j8 : the swap was always supposed to track spot, and they have said informally that they would do something to ensure that. so in a way if you bought at a premium you had it coming. but i agree it's shitty communication on this, which unfortunately is becoming classic bitmex [2016-06-12 02:58:49] lockhedge : sleger: would you prefer higher (and more frequent) DPE? [2016-06-12 02:58:54] sleger : cant modify the terms of a product while in position, especially on such short notice. Progressive over 2 weeks or closing the existing one in 2 weeks and starting what they want now on a new, different product, is ok [2016-06-12 02:59:12] sleger : lockhedge: stupid question, no answer [2016-06-12 02:59:29] rapidtrades : 12% DPE aint bad [2016-06-12 03:00:17] micmix : swap was in constant flux since it was listed, first rebalance switching to daily, then funding to 8h [2016-06-12 03:01:04] sleger : but these had no strong directional impact on its pricing [2016-06-12 03:01:11] micmix : they are moving very fast and it's too risky to keep large positions [2016-06-12 03:01:13] j8 : and changing to 50x with no warning [2016-06-12 03:01:14] sleger : completely different, i had no problem with those changes [2016-06-12 03:01:40] micmix : marking method that just asks for large DPE [2016-06-12 03:01:46] j8 : if they switched to mark-to-market that would also affect pricing, probably in the favour of longs. you've been arguing for that [2016-06-12 03:01:46] sleger : here, it's a change that simply lowers the price, just some kind of market manipulation [2016-06-12 03:02:25] rapidtrades : sleger: how do u know [2016-06-12 03:02:37] sleger : j8: im not sure mark to market would really increase the price, and at the time i had a small position in the swap [2016-06-12 03:02:55] sleger : rapidtrades: same product, plus a fee if you're long, what do you think? [2016-06-12 03:03:25] rapidtrades : what fee [2016-06-12 03:03:25] aethlios : rebalance premium every day, this will market spot. [2016-06-12 03:03:51] rapidtrades : does bitmex get that fee or shorts? [2016-06-12 03:03:58] sleger : shorts ofc [2016-06-12 03:04:01] micmix : but I agree that such changes should be announced in advance, like 1-2 weeks [2016-06-12 03:04:02] rapidtrades : yessssssssssssssssssssss [2016-06-12 03:04:08] rapidtrades : motherfucking score [2016-06-12 03:04:23] sq : actually i think bitmex been talking bout it for a while here [2016-06-12 03:04:41] sq : at least i read bout it a few times here [2016-06-12 03:04:44] sq : but didnt know its today [2016-06-12 03:04:56] rapidtrades : had no clue too [2016-06-12 03:05:11] j8 : if you were really paying attention you would have an idea that this was coming eventually. but it was not communicated in any official way [2016-06-12 03:05:12] rapidtrades : maybe they posted here and ggwp spam buried it [2016-06-12 03:05:13] aethlios : killing premium every day will increase volume, because shorts will have confidence to short and hedge. [2016-06-12 03:05:16] rapidtrades : i hate that guy [2016-06-12 03:06:12] rapidtrades : sleger: can i have 2 sec notice before u dump yo shit [2016-06-12 03:06:29] sq : loloool [2016-06-12 03:06:34] sleger : i wont dump cause they cant make the change like that [2016-06-12 03:06:44] rapidtrades : bro its bitmex [2016-06-12 03:06:54] rapidtrades : i feel ya but its a done deal [2016-06-12 03:07:15] sleger : there is 3.5m $ nop, if they kill the premium by changing a live contract, they decide to transfer at least 15m$ from longs to shorts [2016-06-12 03:07:23] sleger : reputation would be destroyed [2016-06-12 03:07:35] lockhedge : the new index is public since June 8 https://www.bitmex.com/app/index/.XBTUSDPI8H [2016-06-12 03:07:47] sleger : sorry wrong maths [2016-06-12 03:08:02] rapidtrades : lockhedge: so they talked about it here? [2016-06-12 03:08:11] rapidtrades : god dam ggwp and his spam [2016-06-12 03:08:13] sleger : 35k$ [2016-06-12 03:09:08] lockhedge : rapidtrades: yes, Arthur explained that they were testing it [2016-06-12 03:09:13] rapidtrades : 0.5367% <<< is this the maxium allowed premium or what [2016-06-12 03:09:14] BitMEX_Wally : The rate will rise to 0.375% first so that is $13k [2016-06-12 03:09:20] rapidtrades : sweet [2016-06-12 03:09:45] aethlios : 2 weeks is a year in btc time. [2016-06-12 03:09:51] BitMEX_Wally : The fundingRate cannot rise by more than 0.375% at a time, and it is capped at 1.125% [2016-06-12 03:10:00] sleger : BitMEX_Wally: so the operators of the exchange decided to transfer 13k$ from some clients to others ? [2016-06-12 03:10:10] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Wally: talking about the premium index [2016-06-12 03:10:16] rapidtrades : says 0.5367% right now [2016-06-12 03:10:27] rapidtrades : means what [2016-06-12 03:10:32] BitMEX_Wally : sleger: The `.USDBON8H` index could have blown up to 1% again like last week [2016-06-12 03:10:53] sleger : could have [2016-06-12 03:11:05] sleger : i signed up to trade the market [2016-06-12 03:11:16] j8 : it sucks, but something does need to be done, fast. $35k is peanuts compared to the likely DPE losses if this continues as it is [2016-06-12 03:11:19] sleger : not having money moved from one client to another outside of my control [2016-06-12 03:11:32] sleger : j8: yes but then slow change over 2 weeks [2016-06-12 03:11:35] sleger : id be ok with that [2016-06-12 03:11:59] sleger : or then bitmex should pay the 35k [2016-06-12 03:12:10] j8 : yeah, these sudden announcements are awful. [2016-06-12 03:12:37] rapidtrades : sleger: bro u will only pay 2k, no biggie [2016-06-12 03:12:50] lockhedge : sleger: agree that it should have been done 2 weeks earlier, but doesn't make sense to wait even longer now [2016-06-12 03:12:53] sleger : i dont like getting stolen from [2016-06-12 03:13:25] rapidtrades : i feel like this swap has a built in defect [2016-06-12 03:13:39] rapidtrades : that can't be fixed [2016-06-12 03:13:45] j8 : of course it does [2016-06-12 03:14:08] rapidtrades : maybe it needs to be tethered with a delivery date, even if it needs to be 5yrs out [2016-06-12 03:15:14] j8 : wouldn't help much. it needs to be within 0.5% of the mark price realistically [2016-06-12 03:16:32] j8 : if you can find a way to mark-to-market then thats no problem, but then how do you make it track spot [2016-06-12 03:16:59] 1QaZxSw2 : i missed some of the discussion. so basically profit moved from shorts to longs? [2016-06-12 03:17:00] lockhedge : they could just mark to marked, but that would have been a much more drastic change and probably triggered liquidations [2016-06-12 03:17:21] sleger : but that would have been fair [2016-06-12 03:17:42] rapidtrades : 1QaZxSw2: we have no clue what's about to happen [2016-06-12 03:17:42] BitMEX_Wally : If we marked to market then the swap would bear no relation to Bitcoin [2016-06-12 03:17:55] sleger : BitMEX_Wally: thats incorrect [2016-06-12 03:18:15] sleger : i can arb that easily if the swap is say 50$ above market [2016-06-12 03:18:16] 1QaZxSw2 : so did something happen already or is something planned to happen? [2016-06-12 03:18:25] BitMEX_Wally : You could bid it up and up, get realised PNL, and bid it up some more [2016-06-12 03:19:02] sleger : some people will keep it down dont worry [2016-06-12 03:19:16] BitMEX_Wally : sleger: But why? Because it has the word XBTUSD on it? [2016-06-12 03:19:29] sleger : no, because rebalancing [2016-06-12 03:19:36] BitMEX_Wally : Rebalancing happens at the mark price [2016-06-12 03:19:48] 1QaZxSw2 : im kinda scared. i have a rather largish position open. should i close and wait for bitmex to finish the change? [2016-06-12 03:19:51] BitMEX_Wally : We can't rebalance at the index price and mark to the swap price [2016-06-12 03:20:24] sleger : why not [2016-06-12 03:20:26] BitMEX_Wally : 1QaZxSw2: In 16 hours time long will pay a higher funding rate [2016-06-12 03:20:41] BitMEX_Wally : sleger: Because we cannot rebalance a position below its liquidation price [2016-06-12 03:20:43] 1QaZxSw2 : oh, i see. [2016-06-12 03:21:03] BitMEX_Wally : If spot is 600 and swap is 630 and someone goes 50x long at 630 [2016-06-12 03:21:07] BitMEX_Wally : It is not possible to rebalance them at 600 [2016-06-12 03:21:26] sleger : BitMEX_Wally: well that would liquidate it, but its not worse than today [2016-06-12 03:21:41] sleger : where people buy way above the mark [2016-06-12 03:21:51] BitMEX_Wally : Right, but to liquidate is the same as marking to spot... [2016-06-12 03:22:07] j8 : it would be instant DPE if you tried to rebalance it [2016-06-12 03:22:25] rapidtrades : who's buying at $4 premium AFTER we just discussed this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ [2016-06-12 03:22:25] BitMEX_Wally : Correct [2016-06-12 03:22:48] rapidtrades : 250k.... [2016-06-12 03:23:08] 24hourz : is the 37 minutes the re-balancing for the contract or just for funding ? [2016-06-12 03:23:15] BitMEX_Wally : 24hourz: Funding [2016-06-12 03:23:44] BitMEX_Wally : sleger: I understand that you would like more notice and do not feel these changes are fair. At the moment you are going to pay more in DPE than funding today. Our goal is to reduce DPE [2016-06-12 03:23:49] 24hourz : thanks !! [2016-06-12 03:23:59] 1QaZxSw2 : so only new interest payments are affected right? not the ones that are already paid [2016-06-12 03:24:26] BitMEX_Wally : 1QaZxSw2: Of course [2016-06-12 03:24:58] 1QaZxSw2 : and higher interest will reduce DPE? [2016-06-12 03:25:12] asdfman : such huge orders on book [2016-06-12 03:25:46] rentchev : Yeah, noticed as well [2016-06-12 03:26:02] rentchev : mid someone swapping positions? [2016-06-12 03:27:08] micmix : BitMEX_Wally: have you considered rebalance every 8 hours at the same time as funding? [2016-06-12 03:28:17] BitMEX_Wally : micmix: We've considered it but do not think it would offer much advantage [2016-06-12 03:28:38] j8 : more often is definitely better. localize the damage, don't wait for a retrace [2016-06-12 03:29:05] j8 : plus, track spot better hopefully [2016-06-12 03:29:17] asdfman : 630.00 100000 05:24:42 B [2016-06-12 03:29:20] asdfman : hooooh [2016-06-12 03:30:12] rentchev : Someone is buy a lot of BTC and hedging with a short here? [2016-06-12 03:30:13] sleger : agree with j8 and micmix. Why best and more fair solutions are being ignored is insane [2016-06-12 03:30:18] rentchev : buying [2016-06-12 03:30:20] 24hourz : yall see that ascending triangle pattern ?? [2016-06-12 03:30:42] rapidtrades : sleger: just dump ur shit and buy on finex....ffs [2016-06-12 03:30:53] rapidtrades : $4 premium [2016-06-12 03:30:54] rentchev : on what time frame 24hourz? [2016-06-12 03:32:32] sleger : even better solution for the problem, why not just a range, trading limited at mark price +/- 0.5% ? @BitMEX_Wally [2016-06-12 03:32:51] rapidtrades : that's awful [2016-06-12 03:33:00] rapidtrades : not arbitrage opportunities [2016-06-12 03:33:04] BitMEX_Wally : That's effectively the same as having a maintenance margin of 0.50% and marking to spot. Which we do... [2016-06-12 03:33:44] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Wally: how do u guys know that the new fees will limit DPE [2016-06-12 03:33:54] asdfman : DPE? [2016-06-12 03:33:59] sleger : cause it will reduce premium [2016-06-12 03:34:14] BitMEX_Wally : rapidtrades: It will reduce the premium which means the mark price will track spot better and liquidations will happen at the right time and get closed out easier [2016-06-12 03:34:26] 24hourz : rentchev: really short term graphs huobi 1 min and 3min [2016-06-12 03:34:32] BitMEX_Wally : *swap price will track spot better [2016-06-12 03:34:37] 24hourz : expecting another leg up [2016-06-12 03:34:50] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Wally: can't u just move them to top of the orderrbook? [2016-06-12 03:34:57] aethlios : BitMEX_Wally: Wally what's the basic change in one sentence?? [2016-06-12 03:35:20] 24hourz : rentchev: or fail to break it i will close position [2016-06-12 03:35:35] rapidtrades : i mean we have similar problems with the other contract too...its more to do with the leverage imo [2016-06-12 03:35:47] BTCVIX : rapidtrades: MOAR leverage [2016-06-12 03:35:49] BitMEX_Wally : aethlios: The funding rate will now be set using the greater of `.XBTUSDPI8H` and `(.USDBON8H - .XBTBON8H)/3` [2016-06-12 03:36:04] BTCVIX : need more symobls in that [2016-06-12 03:36:18] aethlios : BitMEX_Wally: Thanks. [2016-06-12 03:36:34] BitMEX_Wally : Once this change reduces the premium we will increase the leverage again [2016-06-12 03:36:38] rapidtrades : although to be fair,,,,DPE during rallies was rare [2016-06-12 03:37:34] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Wally: as long as u have large leverage, DPE will always be here [2016-06-12 03:37:57] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 1000 @ 628.64 [2016-06-12 03:37:59] rapidtrades : we're up almost 10% in few hours....this is no joke [2016-06-12 03:38:00] 1QaZxSw2 : i see... so the motivation is to reduce the gap between the spot and swap price? thats a good goal [2016-06-12 03:38:02] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTM16`: Buy 14775 @ 650.65 [2016-06-12 03:38:12] lockhedge : BitMEX_Wally: wouldn't you have to cap the funding rate at 0.375% (instead of 1.125%) if you increased leverage to 100x? [2016-06-12 03:38:29] BitMEX_Wally : lockhedge: Correct [2016-06-12 03:38:30] sleger : it is i believe [2016-06-12 03:38:36] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 330 @ 0.02304 [2016-06-12 03:38:45] zanza : how is finex handling the latest priec spike ? [2016-06-12 03:38:57] rapidtrades : zanza: 15% DPE that's how [2016-06-12 03:39:01] BitMEX_Wally : The rate is capped at 75% of IM-MM and rate increases are capped at 75% of MM [2016-06-12 03:39:05] micmix : and I'm out on june [2016-06-12 03:39:22] zanza : whoa look at the open interest [2016-06-12 03:39:41] zanza : its going parabolic [2016-06-12 03:39:48] asdfman : where? [2016-06-12 03:40:02] zanza : rapidtrades: there is still 6 days to clear out DPE tho right ? [2016-06-12 03:40:16] zanza : asdfman: the XBT Open Interest is almost 4 million [2016-06-12 03:40:38] zanza : was there any big liquidations today ? [2016-06-12 03:40:59] rapidtrades : zanza: only 1 mil [2016-06-12 03:41:17] rapidtrades : zanza: DPE has 8 hrs to clear [2016-06-12 03:41:22] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 145 @ 629.93 [2016-06-12 03:41:26] zanza : thre is a 320k order on the books at625 [2016-06-12 03:41:42] zanza : that is probably the DPE [2016-06-12 03:41:48] zanza : oh i forgot they changed it rapidtrades [2016-06-12 03:41:57] zanza : was there really a 1 mil liquidation ? [2016-06-12 03:42:00] sleger : "symbol":"XBTUSD","side":"Buy","price":609.95,"leavesQty":1174679 [2016-06-12 03:42:06] zanza : HOLY [2016-06-12 03:42:12] zanza : thats gotta be a record [2016-06-12 03:42:19] sleger : i think it is combined of a few [2016-06-12 03:42:31] zanza : what about in the "rekt" bot [2016-06-12 03:42:56] micmix : zanza: 130000 @ 608.27, 698278 @ 605.59, and 140000 @ 600.89 on the way up [2016-06-12 03:42:57] rapidtrades : bot's dead [2016-06-12 03:43:08] j8 : REKT got rekt [2016-06-12 03:43:16] asdfman : got eretkion [2016-06-12 03:43:31] asdfman : erektion* [2016-06-12 03:43:56] zanza : i only see 80k in the archive [2016-06-12 03:44:02] zanza : liq short [2016-06-12 03:44:08] zanza : Rekt Bot [2016-06-12 03:44:27] lockhedge : BitMEX_Wally: wouldn't it make more sense then to have a leverage cap instead of a funding rate cap? if the funding rate rises above 0.375%, leverage is automatically degreased for new positions. (you would have to decrease leverage anyway if the funding rate rises, otherwise the new rate would have no effect in highly volatile situations like today) [2016-06-12 03:44:30] micmix : zanza: too much chat today, archive doesn't go back that far [2016-06-12 03:44:38] zanza : 698278 [2016-06-12 03:44:41] zanza : thats gotta be a record [2016-06-12 03:45:25] BitMEX_Wally : lockhedge: Yes, we will look into this before increasing the leverage again [2016-06-12 03:45:31] zanza : Zerohedge is covering this bitcoin spike already [2016-06-12 03:45:48] rapidtrades : ZH has our back [2016-06-12 03:47:02] zanza : man [2016-06-12 03:47:06] zanza : i was gunna leverage long on Monday [2016-06-12 03:47:10] zanza : i missed the spike [2016-06-12 03:47:29] rapidtrades : market waits for no man, man [2016-06-12 03:47:33] zanza : I think we are moving towards $3000 target [2016-06-12 03:47:47] rentchev : what time frame zanza [2016-06-12 03:47:55] zanza : 1 year [2016-06-12 03:47:59] rapidtrades : pffft [2016-06-12 03:48:04] zanza : pfffft [2016-06-12 03:48:11] rentchev : then we don't care [2016-06-12 03:48:17] zanza : :D [2016-06-12 03:48:24] rapidtrades : i could be dead in 1y [2016-06-12 03:48:28] zanza : any guesses to next interest rate funding ? [2016-06-12 03:48:33] aethlios : BitMEX_Wally: This index XBTUSDPI is basically the premium spot from index? [2016-06-12 03:48:36] zanza : Ethereum taken over by then ? [2016-06-12 03:48:53] rapidtrades : guys post the email here [2016-06-12 03:50:57] asdfman : only ~2XBT extra profit if exit at 130000 instead of 13000? calc off or just me? [2016-06-12 03:51:18] zanza : calc is pretty accurate [2016-06-12 03:51:21] zanza : from all that I have used it for [2016-06-12 03:51:35] asdfman : tried big numbers? [2016-06-12 03:51:43] zanza : afterall the legendary BitMEX team did code it [2016-06-12 03:51:49] zanza : nop [2016-06-12 03:52:24] BitMEX_Wally : aethlios: Effectively yes [2016-06-12 03:52:43] j8 : asdfman: if you exit at 130000 USD per bitcoin then 2 XBT is a lot [2016-06-12 03:53:21] asdfman : aaaah the contracts are in usd ofc [2016-06-12 03:53:34] asdfman : or are usd [2016-06-12 03:53:39] rapidtrades : $1 [2016-06-12 03:53:47] rapidtrades : on swap [2016-06-12 03:53:59] aethlios : BitMEX_Wally: this is smart move to use this rate as funding to keep premium low. very clever. [2016-06-12 03:54:07] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 12200 @ 633.71 [2016-06-12 03:54:18] zanza : DPE moving up ? [2016-06-12 03:54:33] BitMEX_Wally : DPE is calculated using the mark price [2016-06-12 03:55:00] asdfman : has that tiny xbt increase anything to do with the contracts being in dollar? [2016-06-12 03:55:11] 1QaZxSw2 : is DPE calculated using liquidations and shortfall on those positions? [2016-06-12 03:55:20] asdfman : like if i contract in btc somwhere else it will be different [2016-06-12 03:55:24] BitMEX_Wally : 1QaZxSw2: Yes [2016-06-12 03:56:50] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Wally: so in plain eng what will shorts get in 16 hrs [2016-06-12 03:57:08] j8 : asdfman: most derivatives on bitcoin are inverse style, like the swap. the june and september futures here are different [2016-06-12 03:57:10] rapidtrades : give me the number [2016-06-12 03:57:11] BitMEX_Wally : Funding rate is likely to be 0.375% so shorts will get paid that [2016-06-12 03:57:18] rapidtrades : niceeeeeeeeeeeeeee [2016-06-12 03:57:31] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Wally: is that daily or per 8h [2016-06-12 03:57:51] BitMEX_Wally : Per 8 hour, but only while the premium holds up [2016-06-12 03:57:56] 1QaZxSw2 : so if i short 1 contract at 50x, do i get 50x the funding rate? [2016-06-12 03:57:59] rapidtrades : yessssssssssss [2016-06-12 03:58:04] Blargwaffle : So, the only way to not get DP'd over is hope for better liquidations within the next 8h3m? [2016-06-12 03:58:04] asdfman : thanks @j8 [2016-06-12 03:58:11] BitMEX_Wally : 1QaZxSw2: Funding is on the gross position value, so yes [2016-06-12 03:58:50] rapidtrades : we're already lower then okc [2016-06-12 03:59:00] rentchev : why do you guys care so much about funding? [2016-06-12 03:59:09] rentchev : it's such a small % of the profit/loss [2016-06-12 03:59:23] j8 : it is, until it isn't [2016-06-12 03:59:26] sleger : rapidtrades: so you pretend to be long but clearly you're short the swap [2016-06-12 03:59:30] rentchev : I care about winning trades regardless if they are short or long [2016-06-12 03:59:38] rapidtrades : sleger: yea im short the swap [2016-06-12 03:59:46] aethlios : BitMEX_Wally: This new change will skyrocjet volume above 25.000 btc [2016-06-12 04:00:32] rapidtrades : I'm still net long overall so I didn't pretend anything [2016-06-12 04:00:43] 1QaZxSw2 : well the funding would help in a choppy sideways market [2016-06-12 04:00:49] 1QaZxSw2 : sort of like selling covered calls [2016-06-12 04:01:05] rentchev : but then the funding will be very small [2016-06-12 04:01:12] rentchev : it's only large when BTC is moving [2016-06-12 04:01:14] rapidtrades : ^^^ [2016-06-12 04:01:32] arbitrage001 : woke up with -25 btc lol [2016-06-12 04:01:49] rentchev : 0.0547% in 8 hours [2016-06-12 04:01:52] arbitrage001 : china man clearly over overlord now [2016-06-12 04:01:59] arbitrage001 : our overlord [2016-06-12 04:01:59] rentchev : arbitrage001: -25? [2016-06-12 04:02:06] aethlios : rentchev: this is the old calculation [2016-06-12 04:02:20] arbitrage001 : dosent look like the bull train will stop anytime [2016-06-12 04:02:29] 1QaZxSw2 : if the market retraces, will DPE go down? seems f***d up that i have to give up 16% of my profits [2016-06-12 04:02:45] micmix : okc pumping bot off now [2016-06-12 04:02:45] rapidtrades : 1QaZxSw2: yes [2016-06-12 04:02:51] 1QaZxSw2 : its 16% of profits, not sale proceeds, right? [2016-06-12 04:03:08] j8 : anyone want to buy a big block on XBTM16?