This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2016-06-10 20:55:41] BTCDJS : ggwp: whatever
[2016-06-10 20:55:55] ggwp : I was pulling your leg
[2016-06-10 20:56:06] BTCDJS : yeah yeah
[2016-06-10 20:56:07] ggwp : not gonna get liquidated any time soon
[2016-06-10 20:56:19] ggwp : not planning on it really
[2016-06-10 20:56:31] BTCDJS : sure sure
[2016-06-10 21:05:02] ggwp : alright, bedtime for me
[2016-06-10 21:05:08] ggwp : good night
[2016-06-10 21:05:14] BTCDJS : later
[2016-06-10 21:05:26] BTCDJS : ill not be up much longer
[2016-06-10 21:05:52] ggwp : sleep is god
[2016-06-10 21:06:27] BTCDJS : you don't know how close to the truth you are with that statement
[2016-06-10 21:06:48] ggwp : hmmm
[2016-06-10 21:07:16] BTCDJS : thats if you meant to say GOD and not good
[2016-06-10 21:07:47] ggwp : yep
[2016-06-10 21:08:04] BTCDJS : yep GOD or yep GOOD?
[2016-06-10 21:08:20] ggwp : yep god
[2016-06-10 21:08:51] BTCDJS : is this a polish expression?
[2016-06-10 21:09:33] ggwp : nah
[2016-06-10 21:09:38] ethexio : Site on mobile kind of sketchy to use. Super easy to hit button when trying to scroll.
[2016-06-10 21:09:50] BTCDJS : ethexio: agree
[2016-06-10 21:11:27] laurenssteen : Is there a function to get an alert when price hits a certain point?
[2016-06-10 21:19:14] j8 : laurenssteen: not really, but if you put an order for 1 contract you'll get a notification. i.e. it could be a stop limit order than won't fill
[2016-06-10 21:22:16] BTCDJS : laurenssteen: why do you need an alert when price hits a certain point?
[2016-06-10 21:23:03] BTCDJS : if you have an idea where price might go then you can set a limit order to that price
[2016-06-10 21:26:10] j8 : i use alerts a lot more than hard stops... i'd rather stop out in a controlled way than with stop orders
[2016-06-10 21:26:40] BTCDJS : oh. Well for stops that makes sense
[2016-06-10 21:29:33] j8 : for taking profit too.. maybe by the time the price hits your target it has momentum and you want to let it ride. but i get that people like to stick to their targets
[2016-06-10 22:21:49] sleger : j8: what do you use for alerts ?
[2016-06-10 22:22:29] j8 : i use Boilr for android but it's buggy and i hate it. and it doesn't have bitmex.
[2016-06-10 22:23:03] j8 : i also have some custom alerts sent by scripts i run
[2016-06-10 22:24:47] rapidtrades : tonight's the night fellas
[2016-06-10 22:24:55] rapidtrades : breakout above $600
[2016-06-10 22:25:09] micmix : sleger: you can add SMS alerts to your bot using twilio, it's very easy
[2016-06-10 22:25:24] Rasign : rapidtrades: ok i'm going long
[2016-06-10 22:25:33] sleger : micmix: yes but i was looking for 3rd party solution just in case
[2016-06-10 22:25:37] rapidtrades : micmix: that costs $ tho
[2016-06-10 22:25:54] j8 : i think tradingview will send you sms / emails for free
[2016-06-10 22:25:58] sleger : by the way i use pushover from the bot to send push notifications, works on iphone, and desktop (via chrome) or android
[2016-06-10 22:26:07] ggwp : Rasign:you're going rekt you mean?
[2016-06-10 22:26:07] micmix : yeah, like 1c per text
[2016-06-10 22:26:21] Rasign : ggwp: i was kidding ;:D
[2016-06-10 22:26:23] rapidtrades : 1c? it prolly varies per country
[2016-06-10 22:26:30] ggwp : Rasign: +1
[2016-06-10 22:27:00] rapidtrades : ggwp: go away
[2016-06-10 22:27:08] ggwp : rapidtrades: get rekt
[2016-06-10 22:27:09] micmix : rapidtrades: yes, 1c USA and Canada, Europe is more expensive
[2016-06-10 22:28:07] j8 : i need my phone to actually wake me up though, and email / sms doesn't quite do it
[2016-06-10 22:28:10] rapidtrades : that should be its motto
[2016-06-10 22:28:24] rapidtrades : Europe - where everything costs more!
[2016-06-10 22:28:40] rapidtrades : don't forget to visit tho, cos we got some old buildings
[2016-06-10 22:28:40] sleger : j8: usually you can send up special alerts for some numbers or if email comes from or contains ... works on my iphone
[2016-06-10 22:28:43] ggwp : j8: set a ringtone for smses
[2016-06-10 22:29:17] j8 : oh yeah i can probably do that, haven't tried.
[2016-06-10 22:29:25] rapidtrades : i'll prolly have to do sms cos my stupid phone can't do push over wifi
[2016-06-10 22:29:46] rapidtrades : works fine on mobile data tho lol
[2016-06-10 22:31:21] rapidtrades : sleger: finex lending rates slowly creeping up
[2016-06-10 22:34:32] rapidtrades : nice....rates here are 0.13%
[2016-06-10 22:35:18] rapidtrades : that 0.04 number is still on 8h basis right
[2016-06-10 22:40:28] rapidtrades : http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poll-brexit-leave-campaign-10-point-lead-remain-boris-johnson-nigel-farage-david-a7075131.html
[2016-06-10 22:43:09] j8 : rapidtrades: yeah there were some spikes in the rate
[2016-06-10 22:45:29] rapidtrades : wait a min...that risk aversion move was the poll
[2016-06-10 22:45:35] rapidtrades : like on everything
[2016-06-10 22:45:52] rapidtrades : not just the Pound
[2016-06-10 22:50:28] justinlooking : meanwhile https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.118739911
[2016-06-10 22:54:07] rapidtrades : what does it say? getting 404
[2016-06-10 22:56:30] justinlooking : 12/5 remain
[2016-06-10 22:57:07] rapidtrades : woah, nice spike
[2016-06-10 22:57:23] justinlooking : sry
[2016-06-10 22:57:31] justinlooking : 12/5 leave
[2016-06-10 22:57:41] rapidtrades : same thing
[2016-06-10 22:57:43] justinlooking : 2/5 remain
[2016-06-10 23:01:33] rapidtrades : so that's what 30% odds for brexit?
[2016-06-10 23:02:25] justinlooking : well, fixed odds, remain is 1.42/1.43
[2016-06-10 23:02:33] rapidtrades : woah
[2016-06-10 23:02:41] justinlooking : so 42-43%
[2016-06-10 23:02:44] rapidtrades : that's fairly high
[2016-06-10 23:03:13] justinlooking : sry v drunk that is bllx
[2016-06-10 23:03:23] rapidtrades : its 71%
[2016-06-10 23:03:33] rapidtrades : so 29% for leave
[2016-06-10 23:03:34] justinlooking : no
[2016-06-10 23:03:37] rapidtrades : yes
[2016-06-10 23:03:55] rapidtrades : 1.42/2 no?
[2016-06-10 23:04:00] rapidtrades : to get the odds
[2016-06-10 23:05:26] rapidtrades : its around there...30% exit
[2016-06-10 23:05:56] rapidtrades : i like those odds...if it happens it will be fantastic trading for a few weeks on GBP
[2016-06-10 23:06:44] rapidtrades : only problem is brokers are already cutting leverage
[2016-06-10 23:07:54] justinlooking : i cannot figure it out too much stella and BHO
[2016-06-10 23:09:23] rapidtrades : 5/7 = 71%
[2016-06-10 23:10:00] rapidtrades : 5/17 = 29%
[2016-06-10 23:16:07] sleger : brexit is >50% now
[2016-06-10 23:16:43] rapidtrades : we're talking about betting odds, not the polls
[2016-06-10 23:21:19] sleger : oh the same website that puts 10x reward for trump
[2016-06-10 23:21:33] sleger : only lagging market in the world
[2016-06-10 23:21:35] justinlooking : i think 12/5 = 70~
[2016-06-10 23:22:09] justinlooking : sleger?
[2016-06-10 23:22:32] sleger : for me 12/5 is may 12th
[2016-06-10 23:22:40] sleger : i dont use betting sites
[2016-06-10 23:23:07] sleger : but i "assume" it would be 12/17=70%
[2016-06-10 23:23:53] justinlooking : betfair is an exchange
[2016-06-10 23:23:58] justinlooking : at least the echange part is
[2016-06-10 23:24:19] sleger : well then buy brexit there
[2016-06-10 23:24:26] sleger : the're underpriced
[2016-06-10 23:24:39] sleger : *they're
[2016-06-10 23:25:31] justinlooking : *in ur opinion
[2016-06-10 23:38:58] sleger : no not in my opinion, in the polls opinion
[2016-06-10 23:39:23] sleger : betting sites are probably just as right as they were for trump odds to get nominated
[2016-06-11 00:02:21] wingman : this platform is good to rip you off with fees
[2016-06-11 00:02:38] wingman : if you use 25x leverage of more
[2016-06-11 00:02:52] wingman : you need a good profit to cover your fees
[2016-06-11 00:04:06] sleger : what about 100x ?
[2016-06-11 01:09:25] billz : looks like it's uptime gents
[2016-06-11 01:14:36] ggwp : looks like it's hammertime gents
[2016-06-11 01:21:11] billz : get rekted.. btc hasn't moved from the 570-585 range. Up to 600 before any hammertime
[2016-06-11 01:23:29] ggwp : sure
[2016-06-11 01:23:41] ggwp : whatever you say bud
[2016-06-11 02:22:02] zanza : how is the daily swap interest rate calculated for XBTUSD?
[2016-06-11 02:23:12] zanza : .0442% = 48% annually?
[2016-06-11 02:23:18] zanza : doesn't that seem high
[2016-06-11 02:39:21] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 400 @ 0.02371
[2016-06-11 02:42:41] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 2768 @ 585.96
[2016-06-11 02:42:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 2354 @ 586.00
[2016-06-11 02:43:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 92 @ 586.03
[2016-06-11 02:44:57] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTU16`: Buy 2500 @ 684.56
[2016-06-11 02:44:57] REKT : Sell your house, sell your wife, sell your kids, BUY BITCOIN!
[2016-06-11 02:44:57] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 113 @ 586.21
[2016-06-11 02:44:58] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 288 @ 586.18
[2016-06-11 02:45:38] j8 : zanza: take a look at https://www.bitmex.com/app/index/.USDBON8H . there were some spikes in the rate during the previous 8 hour period
[2016-06-11 02:52:08] j8 : actually there's some issues with that page, it's only showing daily data in the table
[2016-06-11 03:01:03] lockhedge : the 8h funding rate is `(.USDBON8H - .XBTBON8H)/3`so there is nothing wrong with the indices because they are 8h TWAPs of daily (not 8h) interest rates.
[2016-06-11 03:05:15] merp : wtf
[2016-06-11 03:05:23] merp : I wasnt even by my comp and the buy button just submitted
[2016-06-11 03:05:31] merp : this has got to be a fucking joke
[2016-06-11 03:06:07] j8 : lockhedge: that part's fine, but the page implies that it's only published daily at 12:00 UTC
[2016-06-11 03:07:29] j8 : and people will want to see the rate every 8 hours, which is in the api (and on the chart) but not in the table
[2016-06-11 03:10:26] BitMEX_Wally : j8: We will fix the documentation on the page
[2016-06-11 03:11:18] j8 : cool
[2016-06-11 03:38:05] rentchev : BitMEX_Wally: does the leaderboard show all time profits or for a specific time period?
[2016-06-11 03:38:24] BitMEX_Wally : rentchev: At the moment it is life-to-date
[2016-06-11 03:38:27] yerb : BitMEX_Wally: when are iceberg orders comming?
[2016-06-11 03:38:31] rentchev : thanks
[2016-06-11 03:38:43] BitMEX_Wally : yerb: I am working on them at the moment
[2016-06-11 03:39:13] BitMEX_Wally : We will support pegged orders too, so you can place buy order that always rests a few ticks above or below the best bid, etc
[2016-06-11 03:39:29] rentchev : nice
[2016-06-11 03:39:33] yerb : nice!
[2016-06-11 03:39:33] rentchev : MM style
[2016-06-11 03:40:29] BitMEX_Wally : You can peg it to the order book here, or to the underlying mark price, etc etc
[2016-06-11 03:45:27] rapidtrades : rates here 0.13%? @BitMEX_Wally
[2016-06-11 03:46:14] BitMEX_Wally : For XBTUSD: Funding: 0.0442% in 14 minutes
[2016-06-11 03:46:21] rapidtrades : ggwp: ReKtEd yet bbbbb1tch?
[2016-06-11 03:46:59] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Wally: nice
[2016-06-11 04:04:17] zanza : ok, so the interest rate is only charges once per day?
[2016-06-11 04:04:28] rapidtrades : no 3 times
[2016-06-11 04:04:45] zanza : so right now, its .0164
[2016-06-11 04:05:03] zanza : .0164 * 3 * 375 = annual rate?
[2016-06-11 04:05:31] zanza : `.0164 * 3 * 375` = 18% annual
[2016-06-11 04:05:42] rapidtrades : its 365
[2016-06-11 04:06:26] zanza : so technically its `.0164 * 1/3 * 3 * 375` ?
[2016-06-11 04:06:47] rapidtrades : a year has 365 days sir
[2016-06-11 04:06:48] zanza : interest is charged 3x per day, at 1/3 the rate shown ?
[2016-06-11 04:06:51] rapidtrades : sorry to break it to u
[2016-06-11 04:06:57] zanza : oh fuck off
[2016-06-11 04:07:31] rapidtrades : :)
[2016-06-11 04:08:42] zanza : so then its `.0164 * 1/3 * 3 * 365 = 6%`
[2016-06-11 04:09:14] zanza : and if Bitcoin price rises, the interest rises. If Bitcoin price falls, the interest falls ?
[2016-06-11 04:09:43] zanza : so if Bitcoin dropped $30 today, would there be negative interest?
[2016-06-11 04:09:52] rapidtrades : current rate is 17.958% per annum
[2016-06-11 04:10:21] zanza : so its charged 3x per day at the rate shown (my initial claim)
[2016-06-11 04:10:38] zanza : so the previous funding period 8 hours was a rate of almost 50% annum
[2016-06-11 04:10:49] rapidtrades : hehe
[2016-06-11 04:11:00] j8 : yes. you are right. he trolls
[2016-06-11 04:11:28] rapidtrades : zanza: pretty sweet eh?
[2016-06-11 04:11:29] zanza : just wondering, if the Bitcoin price rises, it seems like the interest would rise and eat a lof of your profits
[2016-06-11 04:11:47] zanza : especially if you are holding
[2016-06-11 04:11:58] j8 : if you think interest rates will rise you should sell the swap and buy futures
[2016-06-11 04:12:12] rapidtrades : and ur realizing this just now? @zanza
[2016-06-11 04:12:47] zanza : j8 the liquidity is too low on the futures to really do taht
[2016-06-11 04:12:57] j8 : swap is variable interest, if you're long you want the interest to go down. futures are fixed, if you're long you want the interest (i.e. premium) to go up
[2016-06-11 04:13:46] zanza : just curious what would happen, if they eliminated the "Interest" concept completely
[2016-06-11 04:13:59] rapidtrades : mayhem that's what
[2016-06-11 04:14:02] zanza : :o
[2016-06-11 04:14:58] j8 : zanza: on longer futures the duration risk makes it worth it, for example buying quarterly futures when it looks like there's an uptrend forming. the premium could increase 4 or 5 percent
[2016-06-11 04:15:09] BitMEX_Wally : zanza: If we set the interest rate on a swap to 0% then no-one would short it
[2016-06-11 04:15:12] BitMEX_Wally : The price would go to infinity
[2016-06-11 04:15:37] rapidtrades : if the market was efficient, which it's not
[2016-06-11 04:16:20] zanza : wouldn't people short it if they thought Bitcoin price would drop?
[2016-06-11 04:16:55] rapidtrades : the theory is that u could short elsewhere and get monies in terms of premium @zanza
[2016-06-11 04:19:06] zanza : btw the open interest is increasing linearly on XBT
[2016-06-11 04:19:18] zanza : I wonder when it will stop ?
[2016-06-11 04:19:31] rapidtrades : when we blow up
[2016-06-11 04:21:30] rapidtrades : KABOOM
[2016-06-11 04:21:57] rapidtrades : i shouldn't be up this early
[2016-06-11 04:38:26] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Wally: rates are at 0.0492 right now, while lending on the ask at finex is at 0.054
[2016-06-11 04:39:14] rapidtrades : is this rate now finex or will it move around until 12:00?
[2016-06-11 04:39:23] rapidtrades : fixed not finex*
[2016-06-11 04:40:54] BitMEX_Wally : There is an 8 hour lag. The funding rate calculated between 04:00 UTC to 12:00 UTC will published at 12:00 UTC and then charged at 20:00 UTC.
[2016-06-11 04:44:00] rapidtrades : so the displayed rate is fixed for the 12:00 rebalance
[2016-06-11 04:49:41] yerb : BitMEX_Wally: how many small orders is the limit before being labeld as spam account
[2016-06-11 04:52:25] BitMEX_Wally : 4 orders or less is fine
[2016-06-11 04:52:53] yerb : 4
[2016-06-11 04:53:12] yerb : hmm
[2016-06-11 04:53:37] yerb : i would like to do at least 6 100 cont orders
[2016-06-11 04:53:48] BitMEX_Wally : That's fine
[2016-06-11 04:53:56] BitMEX_Wally : 0.01 XBT is around 6 contracts
[2016-06-11 04:54:52] yerb : yeah but 0.01 is like 300 contracts
[2016-06-11 04:55:01] BitMEX_Wally : XBTUSD?
[2016-06-11 04:55:07] yerb : yeah
[2016-06-11 04:55:30] yerb : i like to average down the orderbook cuz its hard to catch the tops/bottoms
[2016-06-11 04:55:52] BitMEX_Wally : 6 contracts at $600 is 0.01 XBT
[2016-06-11 04:56:18] yerb : you should limit the frequency like 20 cents or something
[2016-06-11 04:56:21] BitMEX_Wally : 1 contract is 1 USD so 6 / 600 = 0.01 XBT
[2016-06-11 04:56:35] yerb : so if they span les than 20 cents thats counted as spam
[2016-06-11 04:56:50] BitMEX_Wally : No
[2016-06-11 04:57:11] BitMEX_Wally : if you submit order more than 4 orders that are 6 contracts or less
[2016-06-11 04:57:33] BitMEX_Wally : are you planning on flooding the order book with orders for 6 contracts?
[2016-06-11 04:58:10] yerb : no i want to set 10 orders od 100 contracts down the orderbook
[2016-06-11 04:58:35] BitMEX_Wally : Then all your orders will be over 0.01 XBT
[2016-06-11 04:58:56] yerb : oh, now i understand, the combined value
[2016-06-11 04:59:03] yerb : ok then
[2016-06-11 04:59:05] BitMEX_Wally : No
[2016-06-11 04:59:08] BitMEX_Wally : it's not combined
[2016-06-11 04:59:31] BitMEX_Wally : 1 order for 100 contacts at $500 is 0.2 XBT
[2016-06-11 04:59:43] BitMEX_Wally : 0.2 XBT is greater than 0.01 XBT
[2016-06-11 04:59:47] BitMEX_Wally : tgerefore it is not spam
[2016-06-11 05:00:07] yerb : oh now i understand
[2016-06-11 05:00:25] yerb : the leveraged value
[2016-06-11 05:00:57] yerb : thanx :)
[2016-06-11 05:01:18] BitMEX_Wally : You leverage setting is irrelevant. 100 contracts is 100 contracts at any leverage
[2016-06-11 05:01:58] yerb : yeah, but order value must be 0.01 not the order cost
[2016-06-11 05:02:15] BitMEX_Wally : Correct
[2016-06-11 05:03:10] yerb : in the email that is a bit confuzing, thats why i didnt understand at first
[2016-06-11 05:04:35] yerb : ok it says gross value, i guess i misinterpreted that as cost
[2016-06-11 05:14:39] yerb : BitMEX_Wally: is it possible to make clicking on the chart change the limit price input field?
[2016-06-11 05:15:46] yerb : i know that the chart is embedded and prolly hard to get data from it
[2016-06-11 05:22:54] BitMEX_Wally : Good idea, I'll see if it's possible
[2016-06-11 05:25:47] yerb : i love the feature that my orders and etries are visible on the chart
[2016-06-11 05:36:08] elmorte : The nominal value
[2016-06-11 05:38:13] elmorte : Hard to form full sentences this early in the morning
[2016-06-11 05:38:59] billyboy402 : my Unrealised PNL (ROE % = -0.0265 XBT (-76.09%) but say Realised PNL0.0186 XBT 584.29 Close Market ... so if i close out what my PNL
[2016-06-11 05:40:24] elmorte : Approximately unrealized + realized, but you should really use the calculator
[2016-06-11 05:40:57] elmorte : There's a button for it somewhere around order controls
[2016-06-11 05:41:08] yerb : PNL should be calculated based on 'orderbook - taker fee'
[2016-06-11 05:42:31] yerb : i would like to see what my would be PNL if i market closed
[2016-06-11 05:42:44] billyboy402 : the interest earn , does that get paid into your account when it settle , or at the end of the term when you close out
[2016-06-11 05:43:53] j8 : billyboy402: you get it right away
[2016-06-11 05:44:03] billyboy402 : j8: cheers
[2016-06-11 05:44:46] billyboy402 : and shorts will receive 0.0164% ... is that on the current price or when you open the trade
[2016-06-11 05:46:12] j8 : it's calculated on the btc value using the spot price at the funding time
[2016-06-11 05:51:27] j8 : i.e. `(0.000164)*(10000 contracts)/582 = 0.002818 XBT`
[2016-06-11 05:52:22] billyboy402 : ok thanks
[2016-06-11 05:55:51] elmorte : j8: thanks, didn't know that either
[2016-06-11 05:59:51] j8 : but if you have 10000 contracts then you know it will be $1.64 worth of bitcoin, whatever the price is
[2016-06-11 06:55:05] klee : When I am gonna see back to my available funds the Withheld Profit?
[2016-06-11 06:55:13] klee : (XBT)
[2016-06-11 06:55:20] klee : Every 8h?
[2016-06-11 06:59:43] Mr Blue : klee: I believe so, unless computer says no lol
[2016-06-11 07:00:14] Mr Blue : klee: have you been in crypto long love?
[2016-06-11 07:38:54] BTCDJS : BitMEX_Wally: what does it benefit the people who spam the order book with 1 contracts?
[2016-06-11 08:25:09] BTCDJS : Oh no! I hope the Bears don't become extinct
[2016-06-11 08:48:21] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 1 @ 0.02361 :punch: :whale:
[2016-06-11 08:48:36] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 40 @ 0.02354
[2016-06-11 09:08:29] GingerDan : BTCDJS: They could be searching for hidden orders
[2016-06-11 09:11:33] BTCDJS : GingerDan: makes sense.
[2016-06-11 09:11:35] mikeh : someone said you're only hit with fees on rebalance once yet my wallet balance keeps changing?
[2016-06-11 09:11:57] zanza : they shoud just change the contract size by a scale of 10, so updated 1 = 10 old
[2016-06-11 09:12:13] BTCDJS : mikeh: mine changed too
[2016-06-11 09:14:57] mikeh : oh it might be the weekly rebalance
[2016-06-11 09:15:32] BTCDJS : theres a weekly rebalance?
[2016-06-11 09:16:06] mikeh : yeah in help: "Each Friday at 12:00 UTC profits on DPE contracts that have not expired are rebalanced. All unrealised pnl is realised at the weekly rebalance price. BitMEX calculates the system loss if any, and then adjusts realised profits accordingly."
[2016-06-11 09:16:34] laurenssteen : https://www.bitmex.com/app/dynamicProfitEqualisation
[2016-06-11 09:16:40] BTCDJS : mikeh: oh
[2016-06-11 09:18:04] BTCDJS : laurenssteen: you still short?
[2016-06-11 09:18:17] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTUSD`: Buy 557 @ 587.27
[2016-06-11 09:18:42] laurenssteen : BTCDJS: haha not at all. Liquidated that position with a little loss
[2016-06-11 09:18:52] laurenssteen : been long since yesterday evening
[2016-06-11 09:19:26] laurenssteen : BTCDJS: you long?
[2016-06-11 09:19:44] BTCDJS : laurenssteen: oh yeah. since 575.48
[2016-06-11 09:20:12] BTCDJS : which is where you should've sold no? for maximum profit
[2016-06-11 09:20:37] laurenssteen : I think we might break 600 today
[2016-06-11 09:21:28] BTCDJS : BTC always pumps on a saterday. I know because Im always out doing something while its happening
[2016-06-11 09:21:48] laurenssteen : BTCDJS: you know the specific reason for that?
[2016-06-11 09:22:05] BTCDJS : they don't want me to have a life?
[2016-06-11 09:22:34] asdfman : My lack of long bringing it down
[2016-06-11 09:22:51] asdfman : lack of long, bringing*
[2016-06-11 09:23:03] laurenssteen : BTCDJS: haha last saterday it went up 6 %
[2016-06-11 09:23:27] ggwp : nice little exit pump
[2016-06-11 09:23:53] ggwp : nom nom sweet top
[2016-06-11 09:23:57] BTCDJS : i made profit last weekend and the weekend before that. Both times I was on the drink
[2016-06-11 09:24:08] laurenssteen : ggwp: you short?
[2016-06-11 09:24:26] ggwp : yep
[2016-06-11 09:24:31] BTCDJS : laurenssteen: yeah he's only got 4 inches
[2016-06-11 09:24:42] ggwp : you would know
[2016-06-11 09:24:58] laurenssteen : haha you guys from the UK?
[2016-06-11 09:25:06] BTCDJS : i am
[2016-06-11 09:25:30] ggwp : I'm not - luckily
[2016-06-11 09:26:36] laurenssteen : ggwp: luckily?
[2016-06-11 09:27:01] ggwp : not a big fan of the gchq
[2016-06-11 09:27:09] BTCDJS : laurenssteen: he miss spoke and will now be apologising
[2016-06-11 09:29:09] laurenssteen : Not from the UK so don't care actually :)
[2016-06-11 09:30:01] BTCDJS : where you from again?
[2016-06-11 09:30:16] BTCDJS : aren't you the one that said ta
[2016-06-11 09:30:46] laurenssteen : no, Belgium
[2016-06-11 09:30:59] BTCDJS : laurenssteen: oh
[2016-06-11 09:31:06] yerb : any bitmex people around
[2016-06-11 09:31:10] BTCDJS : got you confused with someone else then
[2016-06-11 09:31:23] BTCDJS : yerb: we are all here mate
[2016-06-11 09:31:46] yerb : PNL calculation must be fixed
[2016-06-11 09:31:52] yerb : we are nowhere near mark price
[2016-06-11 09:34:22] BTCDJS : yerb: ill get someone on that right away. but it would help also if you sent an email
[2016-06-11 09:34:51] yerb : ive been talking to them for 2 months now
[2016-06-11 09:35:16] ggwp : woops
[2016-06-11 09:35:25] ggwp : whats habbening guise
[2016-06-11 09:35:34] ggwp : why iz it going down
[2016-06-11 09:35:42] ggwp : oh nose
[2016-06-11 09:35:57] ggwp : GUISE
[2016-06-11 09:36:05] ggwp : halp plox
[2016-06-11 09:36:32] ggwp : (last chance to close your long)
[2016-06-11 09:36:38] ggwp : and open monster short
[2016-06-11 09:37:02] BTCDJS : ok I'm on it
[2016-06-11 09:37:13] ggwp : gotta go for a run now
[2016-06-11 09:37:30] ggwp : when I'm back I'll be in heavy profit
[2016-06-11 09:37:36] ggwp : cant wait
[2016-06-11 09:37:41] ggwp : cya
[2016-06-11 09:37:54] laurenssteen : BTCDJS: shorting right now?
[2016-06-11 09:38:23] BTCDJS : nope
[2016-06-11 09:39:57] laurenssteen : BTCDJS: are doing the opposite thing of ggwp every time :p
[2016-06-11 09:41:08] laurenssteen : * Are you?
[2016-06-11 09:41:10] BTCDJS : laurenssteen: not necessarily doing the opposite just to be opposite. Just don't thing the bull run is over yet
[2016-06-11 09:41:48] laurenssteen : ggwp: why do you think it's going bust? or just short term
[2016-06-11 09:42:03] BTCDJS : i think 637 then we take it from there
[2016-06-11 09:43:46] Rasign : BTCDJS: 637 ! Oh nice I m gong long
[2016-06-11 09:44:00] Rasign : #sheep
[2016-06-11 09:44:07] yerb : i still dont get the logic that nobody would short if there was no fee
[2016-06-11 09:44:26] BTCDJS : laurenssteen: don't listen to him he doesn't have any evidence. he just says its obvious. he reminds me of one of those homeless alcoholics who wears reverend clothes spouting end of the world stuff in the middle of the city centre
[2016-06-11 09:44:38] yerb : if i knew BTC would go down ofcourse i would short
[2016-06-11 09:47:41] rapidtrades : guys 589
[2016-06-11 09:48:19] rapidtrades : bears gonna get f*cked today
[2016-06-11 09:49:12] BTCDJS : rapidtrades: they're so silly
[2016-06-11 09:49:35] rapidtrades : don't worry bout it, that's how we make our monies
[2016-06-11 09:51:28] laurenssteen : any of you trading forex or CFD's ?
[2016-06-11 09:51:30] yerb : if anyone wants to join our chatrooms, bitfinex and bitmex staff are there regularly too, if you like to talk about TA and price action this is for you https://whalepool.io/connect/teamspeak
[2016-06-11 09:51:46] rapidtrades : k
[2016-06-11 09:52:25] BTCDJS : laurenssteen: nah
[2016-06-11 09:56:02] sq : laurenssteen: any good cfds brokers for bitcoin?
[2016-06-11 09:56:26] Blargwaffle : All that comes to mind is 1broker
[2016-06-11 09:56:38] sq : Haha tks
[2016-06-11 09:56:53] ggwp : you want a ref link?
[2016-06-11 09:56:57] laurenssteen : sq: don't know
[2016-06-11 09:57:03] ggwp : there's 1broker and simplefx
[2016-06-11 09:57:16] ggwp : simplefx is better
[2016-06-11 09:57:21] sq : Ok tks will check it out
[2016-06-11 09:57:32] aethlios : community meeting in lisk in 1 hour, a small pump maybe during the meeting....
[2016-06-11 09:57:43] ggwp : I can hook you up with a ref link if you want
[2016-06-11 09:58:05] BTCDJS : ggwp: not allowed to do that in the troll box
[2016-06-11 09:58:12] sq : Yup sure tks vm
[2016-06-11 09:58:18] BTCDJS : ggwp: I got told off last time
[2016-06-11 10:01:12] ggwp : hmmm
[2016-06-11 10:02:06] BitMEX_Wally : If someone asks for a link, no problem
[2016-06-11 10:02:14] BitMEX_Wally : We just don't want people spamming the trollbox with unsolicited links
[2016-06-11 10:02:43] ggwp : k
[2016-06-11 10:03:29] sq : Cool
[2016-06-11 10:03:34] yerb : BitMEX_Wally: i still dont get the logic that nobody would short if there was no fee
[2016-06-11 10:03:43] yerb : its not like we can do arbitrage here
[2016-06-11 10:04:08] BitMEX_Wally : You can arb the swap against spot
[2016-06-11 10:04:30] BitMEX_Wally : So in general a market maker can short the swap, and earn the funding fee, which they use to go long spot
[2016-06-11 10:04:39] rapidtrades : it would be accurate to say that the premium would be much larger....because u can trade on leverage with no cost
[2016-06-11 10:05:17] yerb : yeah, but if BTC goes down, people would shoort, i know i would
[2016-06-11 10:05:18] rapidtrades : similar to okc 3 month futures but worse cos the swap never expries
[2016-06-11 10:05:21] BitMEX_Wally : If there was no funding fee, it would be very hard to incentivise a market maker to short the swap, because their long hedge needs to be paid for some how
[2016-06-11 10:05:50] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Wally: mm hedge the vast majority of their trades so that doesn't add up
[2016-06-11 10:06:07] rapidtrades : by hedge i mean they work both sides bid.ask
[2016-06-11 10:06:10] yerb : why, we are betting against each other positions
[2016-06-11 10:06:11] BitMEX_Wally : If there is an expiry date then the market makers can price in 3 months of funding in to their self price. But if there is no expiry and no funding, they need to price in infinity
[2016-06-11 10:06:23] rapidtrades : yes in theory ^
[2016-06-11 10:06:24] BitMEX_Wally : rapidtrades: They can quote both sides but they need to hedge the delta
[2016-06-11 10:06:58] rapidtrades : they can hedge on okc futures and take in the premium
[2016-06-11 10:07:14] yerb : do we know for a fact it would go to infinity?
[2016-06-11 10:07:27] yerb : has it been done before and that happened?
[2016-06-11 10:07:45] rapidtrades : wait...my last comment was stupid, they need to go long
[2016-06-11 10:08:31] rapidtrades : still i would think that 95%+ of all orders don't need much hedging...so that cost should be small
[2016-06-11 10:08:40] yerb : i dont care about the fee, i know i would short if BTC went down
[2016-06-11 10:08:46] BitMEX_Wally : It would only go as high as the longs with leverage were prepared to bid it up
[2016-06-11 10:08:54] BitMEX_Wally : But the asks would all dry up
[2016-06-11 10:08:55] rapidtrades : the larger risk is of course, a major decoupling from spot prices
[2016-06-11 10:10:18] yerb : i mean until we try without fee, we dont know, right?
[2016-06-11 10:10:44] yerb : BitMEX_Wally: how do you know asks would dry up
[2016-06-11 10:10:47] rapidtrades : we do know...see okc sept and think infinity expry
[2016-06-11 10:11:11] rapidtrades : right now premium to sept is $17
[2016-06-11 10:11:16] BitMEX_Wally : yerb: Ok, if you had no view on the market, and just wanted to short swap and go long spot in a hedged position. What price would you sell the swap at?
[2016-06-11 10:11:25] rapidtrades : so at a minimum, we would that at $17 here with no cost
[2016-06-11 10:11:46] BitMEX_Wally : Assuming the swap paid 0% funding and it cost you 0.08%/day to go long Bitcoin on spot
[2016-06-11 10:12:04] yerb : i dont trade spot, i only trade here
[2016-06-11 10:12:07] rapidtrades : we would be trading here at $17 premium minimum if there was no cost to longs
[2016-06-11 10:12:23] BitMEX_Wally : rapidtrades: But OKCoin expires, the swap does not
[2016-06-11 10:12:32] rapidtrades : right, hence the minimum
[2016-06-11 10:12:44] yerb : i only use spot to buy new BTC
[2016-06-11 10:12:45] BitMEX_Wally : yerb: Yes, but imagine you are market maker
[2016-06-11 10:13:27] BitMEX_Wally : Futures trade at the risk-free arbitrage price
[2016-06-11 10:14:44] rapidtrades : the MM argument doesn't hold up but major divergence of spot will occur without brakes like interest rates/mark price etc
[2016-06-11 10:14:57] BitMEX_Wally : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spot–future_parity
[2016-06-11 10:15:11] rapidtrades : maybe micmix can chime in with data how much hedging MM actually do
[2016-06-11 10:15:14] yerb : are you saying that market maker is never shorting market price?
[2016-06-11 10:15:27] rapidtrades : micmix: yo
[2016-06-11 10:15:37] BitMEX_Wally : yerb: A market maker might be long swap and short future, same applies. They have to pay to borrow spot to short it
[2016-06-11 10:15:49] BitMEX_Wally : Sorry, I mean long swap and short spot
[2016-06-11 10:16:52] yerb : there is no spot market here
[2016-06-11 10:16:58] BitMEX_Wally : Right
[2016-06-11 10:17:14] BitMEX_Wally : I'm talking about market makers who hedge their exposure
[2016-06-11 10:17:50] rapidtrades : it's not gonna be infinity cos mark price margin acts as a break as well
[2016-06-11 10:18:08] rapidtrades : it will be a really high number tho
[2016-06-11 10:18:24] yerb : so you assume market maker is not always in bitcoin and goes to fiat when there is downtrend
[2016-06-11 10:18:50] BitMEX_Wally : yerb: I am making no assumption.
[2016-06-11 10:19:07] BitMEX_Wally : I am assuming the market maker is running a business that does not want random exposure to BItcoin just because someone has gone 50x long
[2016-06-11 10:19:19] BitMEX_Wally : So they hedge their delta
[2016-06-11 10:19:59] yerb : by going short?
[2016-06-11 10:20:14] BitMEX_Wally : If they are short swap they buy Bitcoin
[2016-06-11 10:20:20] BitMEX_Wally : If they are long swap they short Bitcoin
[2016-06-11 10:20:56] BTCDJS : BitMEX_Wally: do stops execute at mark price?
[2016-06-11 10:21:09] BitMEX_Wally : BTCDJS: Depends if you tick the "Mark Price" box or not
[2016-06-11 10:21:41] BitMEX_Wally : If you have a swap with no funding then you either need as many traders to short it as there are traders longing it. If the demand is out of balance the price will rise and you need market makers to arbitrage the price back. Except with no funding they have no incentive to do so.
[2016-06-11 10:23:15] BitMEX_Wally : Market makers can lend out their USD or Bitcoin on Bitfinex, so why should they come here and short a swap (even if hedged) that pays nothing?
[2016-06-11 10:24:16] yerb : hmm, if they short here and BTC goes down they make 50x more
[2016-06-11 10:24:30] yerb : there is the incentive
[2016-06-11 10:24:47] BitMEX_Wally : Yeah but if they wanted to short Bitcoin they would anyway.
[2016-06-11 10:24:56] BitMEX_Wally : What if they don't have a view?
[2016-06-11 10:24:59] Blargwaffle : They'd have to long on another exchange to balance things out.
[2016-06-11 10:25:08] BitMEX_Wally : Yes, and that costs funding
[2016-06-11 10:25:25] yerb : oh you mean if they dont care about BTC and are just here to lend money
[2016-06-11 10:25:34] Blargwaffle : And, competing services don't generally share mm benefits.
[2016-06-11 10:26:39] yerb : isnt the rabate on limit price alone enough for mm to have incentive?
[2016-06-11 10:26:56] BitMEX_Wally : That's a one-time incentive for quoting
[2016-06-11 10:27:00] BitMEX_Wally : They then have a position
[2016-06-11 10:27:04] BitMEX_Wally : And that position does not expire
[2016-06-11 10:27:12] BitMEX_Wally : So the hedge needs to be funded indefinitely
[2016-06-11 10:27:46] yerb : or they go long at a loss :)
[2016-06-11 10:28:10] yerb : i mean close positions at a loss
[2016-06-11 10:28:58] BitMEX_Wally : Then they're just taking naked risk
[2016-06-11 10:29:10] yerb : as we do
[2016-06-11 10:29:19] lockhedge : my market maker bot (about 4% of XBTUSD volume) does not actively hedge any positions. it just adjusts the price for inventory management.
[2016-06-11 10:30:56] BitMEX_Wally : Most market makers have a delta limit, so they might be short $100k of swap, but long $90k of spot, so their delta is -$10k
[2016-06-11 10:31:15] BitMEX_Wally : Once their delta reaches their limit, they hedge
[2016-06-11 10:31:43] BitMEX_Wally : 10% of their capital might be naked risk, but 90% of their capital is hedged
[2016-06-11 10:32:04] rapidtrades : exactly, like i was saying they only hedge a small part
[2016-06-11 10:32:13] BitMEX_Wally : 90% is a small part?
[2016-06-11 10:32:33] rapidtrades : those are not accurate numbers
[2016-06-11 10:32:51] rapidtrades : micmix: yo, how much u hedge
[2016-06-11 10:33:11] BitMEX_Wally : I'll catch you guys later, I'm heading out
[2016-06-11 10:35:17] rapidtrades : it just wouldn't make sense to hedge out 90%...first, there is no 0 fee USD exchange but okc
[2016-06-11 10:35:33] rapidtrades : and liquidity there is prolly not sufficient for large players
[2016-06-11 10:35:50] rapidtrades : so they have to hedge on China....which exposes them to currency risk
[2016-06-11 10:37:13] rapidtrades : there are significant costs to hedging with USD spot
[2016-06-11 10:37:26] rapidtrades : much bigger then 0.075%
[2016-06-11 10:37:33] rapidtrades : sry 0.025%
[2016-06-11 11:13:09] mjmj83 : Does anyone know if the Perpetual Swap behaves as a Quanto?
[2016-06-11 11:15:30] lockhedge : mjmj83: it's not a quanto, it's an inverse instrument. you actually buy USDXBT if you short XBTUSD, contract value is always $1 in xbt
[2016-06-11 11:19:05] mjmj83 : As I thought. Thanks.
[2016-06-11 11:34:49] ggwp : goblin town is just around the corner
[2016-06-11 11:35:41] laurenssteen : he's back
[2016-06-11 11:36:02] ggwp : you'll experience it soon enough
[2016-06-11 11:36:12] ggwp : not wise to mess with the goblin king
[2016-06-11 11:36:19] ggwp : at all
[2016-06-11 11:36:51] ggwp : 1st target 1760
[2016-06-11 11:37:31] ggwp : watch china closely now
[2016-06-11 11:37:37] ggwp : this is the tipping point
[2016-06-11 11:41:45] BTCDJS : Go away fly *waves hand in front of face vigorously
[2016-06-11 11:42:18] ggwp : you'll be doing that to your profits soon ;)
[2016-06-11 11:43:10] ggwp : buy eth
[2016-06-11 11:43:35] rapidtrades : noone's gonna follow a loser's advice
[2016-06-11 11:43:53] messiaen8844 : 500k on order book.. was that liquidation?
[2016-06-11 11:43:53] ggwp : lulz
[2016-06-11 11:44:03] ggwp : nah
[2016-06-11 11:44:38] ggwp : china's getting out the rekting ball
[2016-06-11 11:45:09] ggwp : longerz run like there's no tommorow
[2016-06-11 11:45:20] ggwp : this was the decision point
[2016-06-11 11:45:36] rapidtrades : you've been saying that since 570
[2016-06-11 11:45:53] ggwp : nah
[2016-06-11 11:45:57] Rasign : rapidtrades: you say 600+ since 1 week
[2016-06-11 11:46:08] rapidtrades : and we hit 600 u dummy
[2016-06-11 11:46:09] ggwp : ^this
[2016-06-11 11:46:12] rapidtrades : u dumb dummy
[2016-06-11 11:46:18] Rasign : rapidtrades: we hit 585
[2016-06-11 11:46:20] ggwp : not on spot dumbo
[2016-06-11 11:46:33] Rasign : don't made me laught plz
[2016-06-11 11:46:36] ggwp : spot's what matters
[2016-06-11 11:46:49] rapidtrades : we hit 600 everywhere actually except finex
[2016-06-11 11:46:58] rapidtrades : china, okc usd spot, here
[2016-06-11 11:47:01] Rasign : rapidtrades: when you called hit we already hit
[2016-06-11 11:47:04] ggwp : and bitstamp
[2016-06-11 11:47:07] rapidtrades : so get f*cked
[2016-06-11 11:47:08] Rasign : you said we going back
[2016-06-11 11:47:10] Rasign : to 600
[2016-06-11 11:47:14] Rasign : but
[2016-06-11 11:47:22] Rasign : we only hit 585
[2016-06-11 11:47:29] ggwp : and it so happens that the index here is comprised of mainly finex and bitstamp
[2016-06-11 11:47:32] rapidtrades : 'only' lol
[2016-06-11 11:47:33] ggwp : so get rekt
[2016-06-11 11:47:39] rapidtrades : im sorry u only made $5
[2016-06-11 11:47:46] rapidtrades : instead of $15
[2016-06-11 11:47:49] Rasign : you did 2 dol
[2016-06-11 11:48:06] rapidtrades : we hit 592 this morning ya dummy