This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

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[2016-05-26 12:12:56] haxmb : a lot of hedging intra-exchange
[2016-05-26 12:13:01] rapidtrades : then why are u butting in
[2016-05-26 12:13:06] haxmb : rapidtrades: what
[2016-05-26 12:13:43] rapidtrades : u made it seem like u just follow eth up and down with ur comments
[2016-05-26 12:13:43] haxmb : why am i butting in what
[2016-05-26 12:14:11] haxmb : nope, but it's very profitable market making on all exchanges
[2016-05-26 12:14:19] haxmb : massive spreads / margins
[2016-05-26 12:15:14] rapidtrades : guys its easy money, just program ur bot and do market making across exchanges lol
[2016-05-26 12:15:21] haxmb : yeah very easy money
[2016-05-26 12:15:31] rapidtrades : u are being a bit disingenuous
[2016-05-26 12:15:33] haxmb : just gotta maintain everything about 60hr/s a week
[2016-05-26 12:15:45] haxmb : and build an algo that does that shit
[2016-05-26 12:15:49] haxmb : took about 2.5 years
[2016-05-26 12:16:08] haxmb : im not disingenuous
[2016-05-26 12:16:12] rapidtrades : it just takes 2.5 yrs but its easy money...srsly get lost
[2016-05-26 12:16:18] haxmb : (Y) cool
[2016-05-26 12:16:47] haxmb : it's not that hard to build code that accesses APIs of several exchanges mate
[2016-05-26 12:16:51] haxmb : it's a work in progress
[2016-05-26 12:20:21] rapidtrades : you'll have a better idea of ur actual risk exposure once u have 1-2 disasters happen...like major clawback or exchange going down
[2016-05-26 12:20:35] haxmb : rapidtrades: have lost over $20,000 in margin calls on okcoin and 796
[2016-05-26 12:20:54] haxmb : okcoin DDoS with margin calls
[2016-05-26 12:20:56] haxmb : good times
[2016-05-26 12:20:57] rapidtrades : what's that in %
[2016-05-26 12:21:14] haxmb : well i told you my max drawdown right
[2016-05-26 12:21:21] rapidtrades : ok so that was it
[2016-05-26 12:21:28] haxmb : 7 to 9%
[2016-05-26 12:21:47] haxmb : think the okcoin incident was -$12k
[2016-05-26 12:21:54] haxmb : and 796 was -$8k
[2016-05-26 12:22:04] rapidtrades : ok i don't really know the long-term risk profile for mm/arbitrage, maybe sleger does
[2016-05-26 12:24:16] rapidtrades : the DD and actual risk is harder to predict with those type of strategies
[2016-05-26 12:24:35] rapidtrades : ur prolly good into more competition comes along :)
[2016-05-26 12:24:37] ButchPooch : I need to buy BTC, is there any way to get more than 100x?
[2016-05-26 12:24:52] haxmb : yeah well i got rekt with a 2x leveraged short on okcion
[2016-05-26 12:25:18] haxmb : rapidtrades: yeah i just gotta keep improving the algo
[2016-05-26 12:25:45] haxmb : stagnation of development only gives other ppl chance to catch up
[2016-05-26 12:30:08] haxmb : ButchPooch: why do you want more than 100x leverage :O
[2016-05-26 12:50:44] rapidtrades : haxmb: how did ur algo do from nov1 to nov4? the great bull run
[2016-05-26 12:50:49] rapidtrades : on btc
[2016-05-26 12:51:03] zanza : made 20x returns
[2016-05-26 12:53:34] haxmb : rapidtrades: pretty good, the divergence between spot and futures (esp. quarters) is tricky though
[2016-05-26 12:53:50] haxmb : improved a lot since then, ready for next move like that 8)
[2016-05-26 12:54:24] j8 : the hard part is making your 500% returns scale up.. so you make 500% this year, but can you make 500% next year on 6 times as much? that's part of why these numbers seem so much higher than the best hedge funds / HFT
[2016-05-26 12:54:56] haxmb : j8: yeah that is the problem, but so far crypto markets have been very kind in scaling up as well as my trading capital
[2016-05-26 12:55:21] haxmb : did 500% this year on 10x as much as i did 900% last year on though
[2016-05-26 12:55:33] haxmb : it scales down a bit but not too dramatic
[2016-05-26 12:55:45] rapidtrades : ur trading on 10x leverage?
[2016-05-26 12:55:48] haxmb : nope
[2016-05-26 12:55:51] j8 : yep, just don't be too disappointed if you're only making 100% on 100 times as much in a couple years :)
[2016-05-26 12:55:56] haxmb : rapidtrades: max 2x leverage
[2016-05-26 12:56:28] haxmb : j8: haha , well absolute values are good enough for 5% then so who cares ;-)
[2016-05-26 12:58:18] rapidtrades : haxmb: so when does the algo lose money
[2016-05-26 12:58:50] haxmb : rapidtrades: when it's offline
[2016-05-26 12:59:20] haxmb : rapidtrades: straight up down moves on coins cost money, since you gotta have a position to be able to trade it
[2016-05-26 12:59:44] haxmb : but they get traded away pretty efficiently on the chops
[2016-05-26 12:59:58] rapidtrades : ok so on down moves
[2016-05-26 13:00:19] rapidtrades : so from nov4 onward u lost money?
[2016-05-26 13:00:21] haxmb : yeah it trades quite some alts, dont trade margin on that
[2016-05-26 13:00:24] haxmb : nope
[2016-05-26 13:00:37] haxmb : straight up down moves i mean
[2016-05-26 13:00:44] haxmb : like massive dumps and just keeps going
[2016-05-26 13:00:50] haxmb : but if it goes up and down and up and down etc
[2016-05-26 13:00:51] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 178 @ 0.02685
[2016-05-26 13:00:54] haxmb : it's all good
[2016-05-26 13:00:58] rapidtrades : like crashes
[2016-05-26 13:01:26] haxmb : yeah, but mostly i can get like 50% of the loss traded away instantly by trading around the spreads
[2016-05-26 13:03:29] rapidtrades : yeah there's a lot of arbs during those times
[2016-05-26 13:03:56] haxmb : rapidtrades: yeah, like 1 to 2% moves in spreads sometimes
[2016-05-26 13:04:26] haxmb : like quarters went from finex+6 to finex+13 last week during finex dump i think
[2016-05-26 13:06:23] rapidtrades : yeah i think it was 2-3 weeks ago, i got in on that as well
[2016-05-26 13:06:52] haxmb : yeah thereabouts
[2016-05-26 13:06:54] rapidtrades : i arbed with spot tho, don't like the CNY exposure
[2016-05-26 13:07:04] rapidtrades : do u hedge that out or just risk it
[2016-05-26 13:07:12] haxmb : hedged it on finex
[2016-05-26 13:08:02] rapidtrades : haxmb: qaurters is quarterly futures n okc or?
[2016-05-26 13:08:09] haxmb : yeah
[2016-05-26 13:08:17] rapidtrades : but that's 50% CNY
[2016-05-26 13:08:22] rapidtrades : not strictly usd
[2016-05-26 13:08:34] haxmb : yeah but if the spread moves you can trade it
[2016-05-26 13:08:43] haxmb : doesn't matter if it will deliver on that price
[2016-05-26 13:08:48] rapidtrades : right but ur taking on some currency risk
[2016-05-26 13:09:10] haxmb : usually those trades get closed within hours by the algo
[2016-05-26 13:09:17] haxmb : shorted about 300 btc on quarters and longed it on finex
[2016-05-26 13:09:37] haxmb : then started closing at $5 + fees gain i think
[2016-05-26 13:09:56] rapidtrades : bit risky but guess that's why u make 300%+
[2016-05-26 13:10:00] rapidtrades : or was it 500%
[2016-05-26 13:10:23] haxmb : whats the risk
[2016-05-26 13:10:44] haxmb : worst case is it settles out on friday with no gain
[2016-05-26 13:11:02] rapidtrades : 10-15% devaluation by china and ur short explodes
[2016-05-26 13:11:14] haxmb : oh you mean CNY pegging by PBOC ?
[2016-05-26 13:11:24] rapidtrades : yes they control the rate
[2016-05-26 13:11:30] haxmb : yeah i know
[2016-05-26 13:11:58] haxmb : yeah theres some currency risk involved, agreed
[2016-05-26 13:12:23] haxmb : but almost all the time the trade is closed during the chop resulting from the move
[2016-05-26 13:13:25] rapidtrades : almost all of time during the past 2 yrs :)
[2016-05-26 13:13:51] haxmb : 8)
[2016-05-26 13:15:23] j8 : bitcoin exchanges are probably the biggest liability.. ddos, counterparty risk, clawbacks etc.
[2016-05-26 13:15:42] j8 : but we all play that game
[2016-05-26 13:15:47] rapidtrades : yes prolly
[2016-05-26 13:16:24] rapidtrades : im thinking about stopping my arbs because of that risk...manually there's not much opportunity
[2016-05-26 13:16:58] rapidtrades : not sure im being compensated for the risk im taking
[2016-05-26 13:17:44] j8 : sort of thinking the same thing. well the opportunities come and go with volatility
[2016-05-26 13:17:53] haxmb : j8: ddos and clawbacks yeah
[2016-05-26 13:20:39] haxmb : they suck
[2016-05-26 13:58:13] rapidtrades : haxmb: how do u divide ur capital across exchanges?
[2016-05-26 14:02:15] haxmb : rapidtrades: depending on where i need the allocation most
[2016-05-26 14:02:20] haxmb : and which ones are most risky
[2016-05-26 14:02:25] haxmb : btce -> very low balance :D
[2016-05-26 14:02:33] haxmb : bitmex okcoin finex poloniex and kraken the most
[2016-05-26 14:02:57] haxmb : 796 also low balance
[2016-05-26 14:03:02] haxmb : dont trust em
[2016-05-26 14:03:54] rapidtrades : sounds good
[2016-05-26 14:04:03] rapidtrades : isn't polo new tho
[2016-05-26 14:04:11] haxmb : nah they've been around for over 2 years
[2016-05-26 14:04:23] rapidtrades : huh rly
[2016-05-26 14:04:27] haxmb : i dont trade on dodgy exchanges like yobit / ccex / eth
[2016-05-26 14:04:29] haxmb : etc*
[2016-05-26 14:04:35] haxmb : bter also very dodgy
[2016-05-26 14:04:47] haxmb : only reputable and established
[2016-05-26 14:05:15] rapidtrades : kraken seems very illiquid, prolly great for arbs
[2016-05-26 14:05:16] haxmb : looking at adding GDAX now, might be good money trading there
[2016-05-26 14:05:29] haxmb : eth/btc is pretty liquid there
[2016-05-26 14:05:32] rapidtrades : i think it will be ameros only again
[2016-05-26 14:05:33] haxmb : not always
[2016-05-26 14:05:52] haxmb : global digital asset exchange
[2016-05-26 14:05:56] haxmb : only for americans? :P
[2016-05-26 14:06:04] rapidtrades : yeah coinbase was ameros plus uk
[2016-05-26 14:06:07] haxmb : that would be some retarded shit
[2016-05-26 14:06:08] rapidtrades : and canada
[2016-05-26 14:06:16] haxmb : haha yeah but i've used coinbase from EU
[2016-05-26 14:06:22] haxmb : not for trading exchange
[2016-05-26 14:06:35] rapidtrades : yeah the exchange is limited for some reason
[2016-05-26 14:06:56] haxmb : weird shit
[2016-05-26 14:07:26] rapidtrades : don't worry tho, they've put eth as their main coin now
[2016-05-26 14:07:54] haxmb : 8)
[2016-05-26 14:08:00] haxmb : sick arbs incoming
[2016-05-26 14:08:19] haxmb : right, back to the coding machine
[2016-05-26 15:11:26] Rune : this new perpetual swap is more expensive then the old one or something
[2016-05-26 15:11:45] Rune : I shorted and it had to go down a whole dollar before I broke even
[2016-05-26 15:12:16] sleger : same fees
[2016-05-26 15:12:29] Rune : before when I made a position and it moved 1 dollar in my favor I made a good amount of money
[2016-05-26 15:12:43] Rune : I dont get it
[2016-05-26 15:13:14] sleger : the calculator may help you
[2016-05-26 15:14:39] sleger : i think i know what your mistake is @Rune
[2016-05-26 15:14:41] j8 : you're probably just looking at unrealised pnl, which is based on the mark price, which doesn't follow the swap market
[2016-05-26 15:14:46] sleger : you are looking at unrealized
[2016-05-26 15:14:56] sleger : what j8 said
[2016-05-26 15:15:03] j8 : what sleger was about to say
[2016-05-26 15:17:59] Rune : I see
[2016-05-26 15:36:33] rapidtrades : #noob mistakes
[2016-05-26 15:37:18] rapidtrades : i think D day is coming soon
[2016-05-26 15:37:38] rapidtrades : we break $470 and make a run for $500
[2016-05-26 15:51:09] BTCDJS : rapidtrades: hey rapid. if thats even your real name
[2016-05-26 15:51:27] rapidtrades : BTCDJS: it is actually
[2016-05-26 15:51:31] BTCDJS : lol
[2016-05-26 15:51:42] BTCDJS : think we will see 444 again?
[2016-05-26 15:51:53] BTCDJS : 445
[2016-05-26 15:52:04] rapidtrades : BTCDJS: maybe...im not long yet, we're still rangy
[2016-05-26 15:52:25] rapidtrades : well im long 2 btc but that's basically flat for me :)
[2016-05-26 15:53:21] BTCDJS : I want to get in on the next low. I just think we will see 440s again before we moon
[2016-05-26 15:54:02] BTCDJS : this new perpetual jazz is cool. If I can get in right ill be laughing
[2016-05-26 15:54:35] rapidtrades : yeah spreads and liqudity is great so far
[2016-05-26 15:54:40] rapidtrades : prolly better then okc
[2016-05-26 15:54:46] BTCDJS : nice
[2016-05-26 15:55:06] rapidtrades : but i wonder if it lasts, could be just a promotional deal bitmex with its MM
[2016-05-26 15:55:45] BTCDJS : hope its permanent. They still get paid either way right?
[2016-05-26 15:56:21] rapidtrades : no clue :) they could be working at BE or small loss to deliver tighter spreads
[2016-05-26 15:56:31] BTCDJS : hmm
[2016-05-26 15:56:49] rapidtrades : im just speculating, guess we'll see in few weeks
[2016-05-26 15:57:21] BTCDJS : yeah it would be a damn shame if they change back
[2016-05-26 15:59:15] rapidtrades : yeah the 24/48h contracts are just too damn short
[2016-05-26 15:59:51] rapidtrades : they were great for arbing etc but for directional trades not so much
[2016-05-26 16:01:29] BTCDJS : this way its way better to trade the 1D chart over long period. And at 100x. Its the bees knees man
[2016-05-26 16:02:48] sleger : yes trding 1d chart at 100x makes so much sense... lol
[2016-05-26 16:02:56] sleger : a 2$ move against you and it's over
[2016-05-26 16:03:20] BTCDJS : sleger: providing you bought the low of course
[2016-05-26 16:03:57] BTCDJS : thanks for your input wise master
[2016-05-26 16:04:23] rapidtrades : BTCDJS: you're welcome
[2016-05-26 16:04:53] BTCDJS : lol I was sarcastically referring to the slegemeister
[2016-05-26 16:04:57] mjones : holiday weekend in the US so i dont think much will happen over next 5 days
[2016-05-26 16:05:11] rapidtrades : mjones: u must be new here
[2016-05-26 16:05:36] mjones : here i'll look back to the last couple years and see if BTC moved over this coming weekend
[2016-05-26 16:07:10] mjones : 3 day candle moved 3.6% last year over the holiday weekend
[2016-05-26 16:08:01] mjones : 2 years ago it was during the may mega bull pump and moved 12%
[2016-05-26 16:08:01] rapidtrades : https://www.leaprate.com/2016/05/sec-notice-bans-broker-dealers-from-retail-forex/
[2016-05-26 16:08:29] rapidtrades : mjones: cool so ur already seeing that ur wrong
[2016-05-26 16:09:04] mjones : last 3 3day candles moved 1%, 3% and 2% so there isnt much movement right now
[2016-05-26 16:09:15] mjones : so i dont think there will be much more over next 5 days
[2016-05-26 16:09:39] rapidtrades : if u say so
[2016-05-26 16:14:52] mrp1nk : anyone wants to call the top between now and the halving
[2016-05-26 16:15:14] rapidtrades : $610
[2016-05-26 16:17:34] arbitrage001 : 500
[2016-05-26 16:21:17] rapidtrades : mrp1nk: how about u fella
[2016-05-26 16:22:39] elmorte : @jung1 love you long time #nohomo #lisk
[2016-05-26 16:26:56] BTCDJS : yeah I got 610 too
[2016-05-26 16:26:59] mrp1nk : i would say max 680 and very likely above 500, so i would say 610 is a pretty decent, but optimistic guess
[2016-05-26 16:28:23] mrp1nk : what scares me a little bit is that almost everyone is expecting a pump
[2016-05-26 16:29:28] BTCDJS : mrp1nk: whys that scary
[2016-05-26 16:30:35] j8 : M16 and U16 are real cheap if you guys think its going to 600+ in ~6 weeks
[2016-05-26 16:30:56] j8 : or sub 400
[2016-05-26 16:31:15] mrp1nk : a lot of ppl are already long af. who will provide the fuel to pump to 680? @BTCDJS
[2016-05-26 16:31:44] BTCDJS : fomos?
[2016-05-26 16:31:50] BTCDJS : good point
[2016-05-26 16:32:44] mrp1nk : we need more ppl like lord ashdrake
[2016-05-26 16:34:05] BTCDJS : mrp1nk: Are you really lord ashdrake?
[2016-05-26 16:34:23] BTCDJS : ?
[2016-05-26 16:34:26] mrp1nk : do i keep shorting uptrends?
[2016-05-26 16:35:24] BTCDJS : he's one of those hey?
[2016-05-26 16:37:25] mrp1nk : http://facesofrekt.austeritysucks.com/index.php?id=3
[2016-05-26 16:42:52] mrp1nk : or magnus, lol
[2016-05-26 16:42:53] mrp1nk : http://facesofrekt.austeritysucks.com/index.php?id=33
[2016-05-26 16:44:31] elmorte : I really shouldn't laugh...it's bad juju
[2016-05-26 16:45:43] BTCDJS : yeah getting REKT isn't fun.
[2016-05-26 17:05:55] sleger : LISK, seriously ?
[2016-05-26 17:09:06] mrp1nk : BTCDJS: we all get rekt once sooner or later - except sleger
[2016-05-26 17:11:34] DamosK : How can I buy IPO for Twilio using LISK?
[2016-05-26 17:11:39] BitMEX_Sam : Yes, seriously - volume has been significant and it takes us minimal effort to list a market.
[2016-05-26 17:13:07] elmorte : mrp1nk: lol was wondering who'd be the first to make that joke....i mean factual statement
[2016-05-26 17:14:02] Rune : should have added lisk at launch
[2016-05-26 17:14:12] Rune : so much volume
[2016-05-26 17:15:11] elmorte : They could've Yobit the whole damn thing too...
[2016-05-26 17:15:45] Rune : lets not go that far
[2016-05-26 17:15:45] DamosK : What's leverage?
[2016-05-26 17:16:09] elmorte : Rune: :) Makes no difference to the exchange really
[2016-05-26 17:16:34] mrp1nk : feels like a dippa is incoming
[2016-05-26 17:16:52] elmorte : You only deposit and withdraw XBT
[2016-05-26 17:17:07] sleger : its not even on margin in polo, there is no interest rate in the swap, doesnt seem very serious
[2016-05-26 17:17:40] Rune : but when lisk was on yobit the price was extremely heavily manipulated
[2016-05-26 17:17:49] Rune : beyond normal
[2016-05-26 17:18:27] elmorte : Yeah, I ain't saying it's right..that was nonsense. Just that if they wanted volume, could've started a month ago
[2016-05-26 17:18:36] Rune : you don't really want margain trading on that
[2016-05-26 17:18:39] BitMEX_Greg : DamosK: It will start at 3.33x leverage, and we hope to improve when margin becomes available on Polo and as volumes pick up
[2016-05-26 17:19:10] mrp1nk : yobit is ultra shaddy... wouldn't a satoshi on that exchange
[2016-05-26 17:19:25] elmorte : Yup...like a glory hole
[2016-05-26 17:19:25] mrp1nk : put
[2016-05-26 17:19:46] Rune : I have 0.05btc on yobit to buy shit coins
[2016-05-26 17:20:10] Rune : sometimes you can get lucky
[2016-05-26 17:20:33] mrp1nk : why you don't use polo?
[2016-05-26 17:20:49] Rune : I buy real shit coins
[2016-05-26 17:20:57] Rune : like trump when it was added to yobit
[2016-05-26 17:21:04] Rune : made a good amount
[2016-05-26 17:21:36] Rune : polo only adds coins that have proven them selves
[2016-05-26 17:21:43] Rune : and by then the price is already to high for me
[2016-05-26 17:24:46] mrp1nk : wait, are you implying you're holding trumpcoin?
[2016-05-26 17:24:58] Rune : no
[2016-05-26 17:25:11] Rune : I bought them at 500 sat and sold at 8000
[2016-05-26 17:25:15] Rune : on yobit
[2016-05-26 17:26:26] Rune : an example of why I buy shit coins on yobit because you can get in on the ground floor easy there
[2016-05-26 17:26:36] Rune : polo adds things later if ever
[2016-05-26 17:28:08] mrp1nk : nice, ok
[2016-05-26 17:28:48] wurstgelee : hm. shouldnt lskxbt be available?
[2016-05-26 17:29:08] DamosK : What can I buy with LISK?
[2016-05-26 17:29:44] wurstgelee : https://blog.bitmex.com/trade-lisk-with-leverage-and-bitcoin/
[2016-05-26 17:29:46] wurstgelee : ?
[2016-05-26 17:30:00] mrp1nk : its on testnet
[2016-05-26 17:30:04] wurstgelee : lol wtf
[2016-05-26 17:30:15] wurstgelee : thats not mentioned anywhere in the blogpost
[2016-05-26 17:30:57] BitMEX_Sam : Our apologies, the launch date was listed in the email but not in the blog post
[2016-05-26 17:31:05] flyas : @Bitmex very nice to see that you will be adding Lisk shortly! Keep it up. And on a sidenote: Im very fond of the GUI / interface! Very intuitive.
[2016-05-26 17:31:09] BitMEX_Sam : I'll amend. It lists tomorrow at 12 UTC, in about 18.5 hours
[2016-05-26 17:31:12] wurstgelee : https://twitter.com/BitMEXdotcom/status/735877589256929282
[2016-05-26 17:31:14] BitMEX_Sam : flyas: Thanks :)
[2016-05-26 17:31:21] wurstgelee : that also sounds like it IS available
[2016-05-26 17:31:57] wurstgelee : so both the blog and the last suggest its live
[2016-05-26 17:32:07] wurstgelee : *last tweet
[2016-05-26 17:32:13] BitMEX_Sam : You're right - just made the blog post more clear
[2016-05-26 17:32:32] wurstgelee : mebbe do that as well with the tweet =)
[2016-05-26 17:35:01] Rune : I hope lisk pumps so I can short the hell out of it
[2016-05-26 17:41:47] sleger : same here, although i would wait a few months, until the hype is gone
[2016-05-26 18:49:43] rapidtrades : the fuck is lisk
[2016-05-26 18:49:48] rapidtrades : the f*ck
[2016-05-26 18:49:56] rapidtrades : you will not silence me bitmex
[2016-05-26 18:50:10] rapidtrades : unless u choose to actually silence me :)
[2016-05-26 18:51:29] BitMEX_Sam : :o
[2016-05-26 18:52:45] BTCDJS : rapidtrades: is a way to work on side chains or block chains using java script if I have it right.
[2016-05-26 18:52:56] BTCDJS : Feel free to correct me anyone
[2016-05-26 18:53:25] rapidtrades : so same shit different name
[2016-05-26 18:53:55] BTCDJS : its the whole java script thing that sets it apart i think
[2016-05-26 18:54:06] rapidtrades : sure sure
[2016-05-26 18:54:13] BTCDJS : because its the most popular coding language
[2016-05-26 18:54:41] rapidtrades : right right
[2016-05-26 18:56:00] BTCDJS : yeah I have no idea really so...
[2016-05-26 18:56:27] BTCDJS : probably just pump and dump lark
[2016-05-26 18:57:21] rapidtrades : you'd think ppl would be more careful after bitcoin did f*Ck all to disrupt the financial system
[2016-05-26 18:58:49] BTCDJS : well i bought LSK at 0.00056. and Im hoping it goes to 0.00269. After that Im not arsed.
[2016-05-26 18:59:06] BTCDJS : only put 0.1btc on it
[2016-05-26 18:59:39] BitMEX_Sam : JS in Lisk is a blessing and curse - it's very good to not have a brand-new programming language, but that also means you inherit a lot of the warts of JS
[2016-05-26 18:59:47] BitMEX_Sam : Lua would have probably been a better / faster / more compact choice
[2016-05-26 18:59:57] BitMEX_Sam : But in all honesty I haven't been keeping up with Lisk dev much
[2016-05-26 19:00:07] rapidtrades : sure sure
[2016-05-26 19:00:12] Rune : lisk is only gonna pump and dump
[2016-05-26 19:00:28] Rune : after a long time it will be 1/40 the value of eth and just be eths litecoin
[2016-05-26 19:00:46] BTCDJS : just using the hype to make money. Not really revolutionary if you ask me
[2016-05-26 19:02:00] Rune : We can only hope lisk pumps to 0.0025+ before it hits bitmex
[2016-05-26 19:02:10] Rune : so we can short the hell out of it
[2016-05-26 19:02:33] BTCDJS : yeah that would be nice. Then ill short it on bitmex
[2016-05-26 19:07:02] rapidtrades : sleger: do u trade options on futures or just stocks
[2016-05-26 19:09:00] loba333 : Hi i want to switch my account so that i'm affiliated with http://bitmex.whalepool.io how can i do that ?
[2016-05-26 19:09:18] BitMEX_Sam : loba333: Please send us an email to support@bitmex.com
[2016-05-26 19:09:29] loba333 : kk thanks
[2016-05-26 19:18:12] mrp1nk : Your session has reached its maximum length of 24 hours. You will be logged out soon. You may manually extend your session by logging out and back in.
[2016-05-26 19:18:22] mrp1nk : provide
[2016-05-26 19:18:25] mrp1nk : option
[2016-05-26 19:18:32] mrp1nk : to disable this
[2016-05-26 19:18:34] mrp1nk : nao
[2016-05-26 19:18:38] mrp1nk : please
[2016-05-26 19:18:42] rapidtrades : ^^^
[2016-05-26 19:18:45] rapidtrades : x2
[2016-05-26 19:18:48] rapidtrades : x4
[2016-05-26 19:18:50] BTCDJS : what he said
[2016-05-26 19:18:50] rapidtrades : x8
[2016-05-26 19:19:25] BTCDJS : im logged in with clef
[2016-05-26 19:19:31] BTCDJS : you?
[2016-05-26 19:19:54] rapidtrades : we've gotten so spoiled, remember when u couldn't close the tab for more then 5 mins without gettting logged out :)
[2016-05-26 19:20:13] rapidtrades : god that sucked
[2016-05-26 19:20:18] BTCDJS : never noticed
[2016-05-26 19:20:32] rapidtrades : cos u had it open 24/7
[2016-05-26 19:21:28] mrp1nk : BTCDJS: logged in in my browser on my notebook. i see no way to install clef
[2016-05-26 19:21:49] BTCDJS : clef is an app you have on your phone
[2016-05-26 19:22:16] rapidtrades : let's be honest, noone likes clef
[2016-05-26 19:22:21] BTCDJS : i do
[2016-05-26 19:22:35] rapidtrades : exactly, you're noone
[2016-05-26 19:23:06] BTCDJS : rapidtrades: wise guy hey?
[2016-05-26 19:23:19] mrp1nk : so i can log into my normal browser with clef from mobile?
[2016-05-26 19:23:29] BTCDJS : clef is solid protection
[2016-05-26 19:23:45] BTCDJS : no different from google 2fa
[2016-05-26 19:24:00] BTCDJS : except no numbers to remember and type
[2016-05-26 19:24:46] BTCDJS : mrp1nk: do you know what it is? have you ever used it?
[2016-05-26 19:25:15] rapidtrades : on the face of it seems less safe because u don't have user/pass
[2016-05-26 19:25:21] j8 : it is very different from google auth
[2016-05-26 19:25:25] rapidtrades : ur phone gets stolen, ur boned
[2016-05-26 19:25:45] j8 : rapidtrades: there's a pin on the app to protect from that
[2016-05-26 19:26:14] rapidtrades : let's face it, most ppl use 1234 as pin
[2016-05-26 19:26:16] BTCDJS : nope. you're phone gets stolen you use ur credentials to move over to new phone. old phone gets eliminated.
[2016-05-26 19:26:56] rapidtrades : but if the thief gets to it first, ur boned
[2016-05-26 19:27:26] BTCDJS : i have iPhone. finger print. phone gets stolen. good luck their. wipe phone. move over BTC wallet. clef and what not wipe phone from mac. no problemm
[2016-05-26 19:27:54] BTCDJS : i dont.
[2016-05-26 19:28:17] BTCDJS : I use 10 numbers
[2016-05-26 19:28:39] rapidtrades : 1234567890?
[2016-05-26 19:28:43] BTCDJS : even with 4 numbers it would be hard to crack
[2016-05-26 19:29:04] BTCDJS : nope. its a phone number
[2016-05-26 19:29:07] rapidtrades : numbers are less safe then letters
[2016-05-26 19:29:24] rapidtrades : cos there's only 10 variations
[2016-05-26 19:29:26] j8 : i guess it would be a pain if clef went down. that's my main concern.
[2016-05-26 19:29:32] rapidtrades : or 9 lol
[2016-05-26 19:29:54] BTCDJS : j8: i never thought of that
[2016-05-26 19:30:00] BTCDJS : good point
[2016-05-26 19:30:19] BTCDJS : but any of the 2fa providers could go down
[2016-05-26 19:30:23] rapidtrades : anyone ever got hacked?
[2016-05-26 19:30:27] BTCDJS : then what?
[2016-05-26 19:30:28] j8 : no, google auth doesn't use google servers
[2016-05-26 19:30:39] rapidtrades : right u can use it offline
[2016-05-26 19:30:48] j8 : it uses a key on your phone, and you're supposed to backup that key
[2016-05-26 19:30:58] rapidtrades : prolly best to get dedicated phone for just 2fa
[2016-05-26 19:31:12] rapidtrades : or that thingy
[2016-05-26 19:31:19] rapidtrades : usd thingy
[2016-05-26 19:31:23] BTCDJS : j8: oh
[2016-05-26 19:31:25] j8 : yubikey?
[2016-05-26 19:31:32] rapidtrades : no the jew thing
[2016-05-26 19:31:46] BTCDJS : bet rapid didn't know that when he made his case though
[2016-05-26 19:31:48] rapidtrades : that's like a wallet
[2016-05-26 19:31:53] j8 : trezor?
[2016-05-26 19:31:55] rapidtrades : yes
[2016-05-26 19:32:45] BTCDJS : lol that trezor thingy
[2016-05-26 19:32:50] rapidtrades : what if u lost ur trezor? are u boned?
[2016-05-26 19:33:03] rapidtrades : ur btc is on it right
[2016-05-26 19:33:08] BTCDJS : yes
[2016-05-26 19:33:14] rapidtrades : dam so ur boned
[2016-05-26 19:33:18] j8 : it also has a pin, and rate limits pin entries
[2016-05-26 19:33:29] j8 : and you keep a backup of the seed
[2016-05-26 19:33:35] rapidtrades : can u back up the wallet tho?
[2016-05-26 19:34:01] BTCDJS : nah i think if you lose it you're F*ucked
[2016-05-26 19:34:10] BTCDJS : and thats it
[2016-05-26 19:34:32] rapidtrades : can i somehow use google 2fa on a bitcoin wallet
[2016-05-26 19:34:41] BTCDJS : nope
[2016-05-26 19:34:42] j8 : its a HD wallet seed, 12 words i think, that can generate all your address
[2016-05-26 19:35:00] BTCDJS : j8:
[2016-05-26 19:35:04] BTCDJS : yeah
[2016-05-26 19:35:10] BTCDJS : i forgot.
[2016-05-26 19:35:19] rapidtrades : ah like electrum? @j8
[2016-05-26 19:35:24] j8 : yeah same idea
[2016-05-26 19:35:34] j8 : stupid incompatible seeds though i think
[2016-05-26 19:35:37] BTCDJS : you lose trezor you use phrase to recover
[2016-05-26 19:35:42] rapidtrades : but the issue is, would writing down be safe
[2016-05-26 19:36:05] BTCDJS : only if you keep in a fireproof safe
[2016-05-26 19:36:15] BTCDJS : but then is the safe safe?
[2016-05-26 19:36:16] BTCDJS : lol
[2016-05-26 19:36:45] rapidtrades : :)
[2016-05-26 19:38:53] BTCDJS : wait!? I've got it!
[2016-05-26 19:40:55] mrp1nk : BTCDJS: no, i never used clef. i was perfectly fine with google 2fa
[2016-05-26 19:41:52] BTCDJS : F*ck
[2016-05-26 19:42:02] BTCDJS : not typing all that out again
[2016-05-26 19:42:09] BTCDJS : it didn't send
[2016-05-26 19:42:15] BTCDJS : can't be arsed
[2016-05-26 19:42:40] mrp1nk : tl;dr?
[2016-05-26 19:43:27] BTCDJS : mrp1nk: oh cos clef sends a notification to tell you you're about to be logged out. then you can extend the time from the app
[2016-05-26 19:43:38] BTCDJS : mrp1nk: yes tl:dr
[2016-05-26 19:45:22] mrp1nk : ok,thx. will consider to install it
[2016-05-26 19:46:54] BTCDJS : mrp1nk: well don't knock it till you try it. I like it. Rapid doesn't. you might or not. its just part of your awareness now so....
[2016-05-26 19:48:55] mrp1nk : yeah, i would also be happy if bitmex provides an option to disable or extend this limit this limit.
[2016-05-26 19:49:53] mrp1nk : -this limit xD;
[2016-05-26 19:50:59] BTCDJS : whoa. theres an echo in my head.
[2016-05-26 19:51:14] mrp1nk : this limit?
[2016-05-26 19:51:50] BTCDJS : this limit
[2016-05-26 19:55:16] mrp1nk : afaik this is new. i don't see much security added by this. if i'm 24/7 logged in and i let my computer unlocked and walk away, then on average there is still 12h time before my session expires...
[2016-05-26 19:57:34] BitMEX_Sam : By default we time the session out after 10min of inactivity, with inactivity measured as the tab being closed
[2016-05-26 19:58:09] BTCDJS : with clef you can choose the time you want to be logged in for. anywhere from 1 min to 100 hours. so if you know you're only going to be on for X amount you will be logged out by clef after the time you set
[2016-05-26 19:58:10] BitMEX_Sam : It's not perfect, and you can disable the 10min limit by unchecking "Safe Session Duration" in your account settings
[2016-05-26 19:58:33] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah - the best answer to this is to use Clef. I don't like the limits either, but I also don't want to leave accounts logged in indefinitely.
[2016-05-26 20:00:13] mrp1nk : 1w would be totally ok for me
[2016-05-26 20:00:26] rapidtrades : x2
[2016-05-26 20:00:31] 1QaZxSw2 : are liquidation rules different for swap
[2016-05-26 20:00:52] BitMEX_Sam : No - the same.
[2016-05-26 20:01:23] rapidtrades : so will the mark never converge or what
[2016-05-26 20:01:28] rapidtrades : last week it didn't
[2016-05-26 20:02:07] j8 : there's no reason for it to
[2016-05-26 20:02:16] rapidtrades : whatever u say
[2016-05-26 20:02:36] rapidtrades : i will get my proft based on mark tho right @BitMEX_Sam
[2016-05-26 20:02:41] BitMEX_Sam : Yes
[2016-05-26 20:02:42] 1QaZxSw2 : you probably dont even need a mark
[2016-05-26 20:02:54] rapidtrades : 1QaZxSw2: yeah we need a mark
[2016-05-26 20:03:06] 1QaZxSw2 : ah yes, for the interest payment
[2016-05-26 20:03:23] BTCDJS : BitMEX_Sam: is perpetual swap a permanent feature?
[2016-05-26 20:03:31] BitMEX_Sam : BTCDJS: Yes, we intend it to be
[2016-05-26 20:03:45] 1QaZxSw2 : well its called perpetual for a reason lol
[2016-05-26 20:04:02] BTCDJS : rapidtrades: good ^
[2016-05-26 20:04:09] BTCDJS : BitMEX_Sam:
[2016-05-26 20:04:15] BTCDJS : im glad
[2016-05-26 20:04:50] rapidtrades : 1QaZxSw2: im glad
[2016-05-26 20:08:05] 1QaZxSw2 : any plans to add lisk, bitmex?
[2016-05-26 20:08:23] BitMEX_Sam : 1QaZxSw2: Yes, it goes live tomorrow at 12:00 UTC
[2016-05-26 20:08:38] 1QaZxSw2 : whats the leverage on lisk
[2016-05-26 20:08:46] BitMEX_Sam : 3.33x
[2016-05-26 20:08:58] 1QaZxSw2 : ok, thanks.....looking fwd to it
[2016-05-26 20:09:22] 1QaZxSw2 : and the mark price is from poloi?
[2016-05-26 20:09:29] BitMEX_Sam : Yes
[2016-05-26 20:10:03] 1QaZxSw2 : is it futures or swap
[2016-05-26 20:11:19] BitMEX_Sam : Swap
[2016-05-26 20:23:35] lockhedge : is a discount on XBTUSD now more likely than it used to be on XBT24H, because of its inverse nature and the interest rate?
[2016-05-26 20:25:24] BTCDJS : the answer is...
[2016-05-26 20:26:35] mrp1nk : ... there is almost discount/premium anymore
[2016-05-26 20:26:39] mrp1nk : no
[2016-05-26 20:37:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 5 @ 0.02772
[2016-05-26 20:39:33] j8 : usually once a trend gets going the premium on okc futures overshoots where it should be from interest rate differentials, and i would bet the swap will trade at a premium / discount then
[2016-05-26 20:42:15] rapidtrades : its not a proper uptrend until finex starts fomoing like crazy
[2016-05-26 20:42:17] mrp1nk : still the 24h felt wilder before
[2016-05-26 20:42:27] lockhedge : @j8 okc futures are inverse as well but you don't receive interest for hedging, right?
[2016-05-26 20:42:50] j8 : you get the premium over however many days to expiry, that's your interest
[2016-05-26 20:42:50] rapidtrades : lockhedge: u collect the premium
[2016-05-26 20:50:47] rapidtrades : since we're losing 15 cents per day by being long here, shouldn't we always trade at discount? at least compared to okc
[2016-05-26 20:50:57] rapidtrades : any MATHS guys in the building
[2016-05-26 20:51:29] rapidtrades : cos on okc all of that interest is implied in the premium at the start
[2016-05-26 20:52:50] j8 : if the funding rate was a perfect representation of the difference in borrowing interest then it would be efficiently priced at the mark price
[2016-05-26 20:54:51] j8 : but if there's a difference between what people are willing to pay/receive when you take into other factors like leverage, rate calculation etc. then you would expect a premium or discount proportional to how long the market expects that difference to last
[2016-05-26 20:56:28] j8 : i.e. if the the funding rate is systematically too high, and this is a permanent feature, the efficient pricing of the swap goes to zero essentially
[2016-05-26 20:57:11] j8 : but the market isn't designed to handle a premium or discount more than 0.5%, so it'll all fall apart before then
[2016-05-26 20:58:36] rapidtrades : think about it this way... if okc and here are trading at 0 discount/premium to index, then it doesn't make sense to long here and lose 15 cents when u can long on okc
[2016-05-26 20:59:01] rapidtrades : so a discount will likely be permanent, at least compared to other futures
[2016-05-26 20:59:53] j8 : exactly, but okc should be trading at a premium if the swap lending rate is consistently positive
[2016-05-26 21:00:15] j8 : it's undervalued if it trades at the index
[2016-05-26 21:01:40] j8 : (anyone with btc can arb it by buying futures, selling btc and lending usd)
[2016-05-26 21:02:49] rapidtrades : right my example was to illustrate a point
[2016-05-26 21:03:00] rapidtrades : usually okc futures start at premium right off the bat
[2016-05-26 21:04:23] j8 : yeah, this week there was like no premium or negative on okc, and the swap was negative. which makes sense
[2016-05-26 21:24:06] lockhedge : any idea for a better reference interest rate? `(current_okc_premium - average_okc_premium)/days_until_expiry`?
[2016-05-26 21:28:03] j8 : not sure what you're trying to do exactly, so there's the rate implied by futures, `current_okc_premium/days_until_expiry`, and there's the funding rate on the swap which you get from bitmex
[2016-05-26 21:33:48] j8 : you can't really assume anything about when the swap will converge to spot, or if it will diverge more, except that its "supposed to" track spot, but if there is a big difference between those rates i'd expect the swap to go in the direction of that difference
[2016-05-26 21:37:22] lockhedge : i implemented the bitfinex based funding rate for my mm bot with the result that the bot never got out of a net long position for 10 days. pnl was ok in the end, but inventory risk became very high.
[2016-05-26 21:39:51] j8 : it's pretty appealing to sell it since you can get the bitfinex lending rate with high leverage, especially when you could long okc quarterly futures at like $1 premium this week
[2016-05-26 21:54:40] lockhedge : guess i have to take into account changes of the okc premium somehow for my bot
[2016-05-26 22:01:12] j8 : it's not easy, but yeah probably necessary
[2016-05-26 22:52:55] rapidtrades : weird, okc premium at $1.6 with 9 hrs to go
[2016-05-26 22:53:05] rapidtrades : crazy ppl or im missing smth
[2016-05-26 23:08:23] j8 : crazy ppl
[2016-05-26 23:09:05] j8 : maybe its pump time
[2016-05-26 23:20:10] rapidtrades : its now almost $2 above index lol
[2016-05-26 23:21:03] rapidtrades : prolly a shortie getting out?
[2016-05-26 23:21:12] rapidtrades : not seeing much bidding on other futures
[2016-05-26 23:23:00] j8 : this is right around where a lot of 20x shorts from the start of the week get liquidated
[2016-05-26 23:28:14] lockhedge : there is a rekt bot on twitter for okc https://twitter.com/whalecalls/status/735783375978516480
[2016-05-26 23:32:00] rentchev : when is LSK going live on BitMEX?
[2016-05-26 23:33:13] lockhedge : in 12.5 hours i guess (12:00 UTC)
[2016-05-26 23:33:57] rentchev : thanks
[2016-05-26 23:36:02] rapidtrades : okc settlement is at 08 UTC?
[2016-05-26 23:38:50] mjones : yes
[2016-05-26 23:42:02] rapidtrades : now at 2 premium
[2016-05-26 23:45:27] rentchev : wow ETH funding -0.1878%
[2016-05-26 23:45:50] rapidtrades : long or short
[2016-05-26 23:46:16] rentchev : when it's negative you have to pay if you are short
[2016-05-26 23:46:19] aethlios : next week is with 0.25 premium, should be above current weeks premium. opened short current week, long next week. planning to close at expiration in a few hours to capture 1.5 net spread. If next week at discount at expiration I will roll over to june contract.
[2016-05-26 23:53:44] rapidtrades : am i the only one getting in on this arb
[2016-05-26 23:54:09] rapidtrades : still at 1.9$
[2016-05-26 23:54:37] aethlios : rapidtrades: I am in too
[2016-05-26 23:56:22] aethlios : rapidtrades: If we are lucky and it pumps next hours then next week could be in a premium too.
[2016-05-26 23:57:02] rapidtrades : yeah i don't fell comfortable with too much cny risk
[2016-05-26 23:57:43] rapidtrades : prolly not gonna roll it
[2016-05-27 00:00:57] rapidtrades : this is so weird...nothing else is moving that much
[2016-05-27 00:07:24] sleger : i hit a hidden order on finex at 454
[2016-05-27 00:07:27] sleger : over 100btc
[2016-05-27 00:08:36] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 125 @ 0.02714
[2016-05-27 00:08:52] j8 : still there @sleger