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<< >> English 中文 Русский 한국어 日本語 Español Français [2016-05-17 13:57:58] giviz : BitMEX_Wally: I would suggest that you put the user in the same trade section he was before logout, as on mobile we are logged out all the time and it's annoying (takes time) to get back to the section you where before [2016-05-17 13:58:01] chromaticcr1 : j8: +1 on you [2016-05-17 13:58:58] BitMEX_Wally : You are logged out on mobile because your IP address changes [2016-05-17 13:59:13] BitMEX_Wally : You can disable this security protection here: https://www.bitmex.com/app/preferences [2016-05-17 13:59:21] BitMEX_Sam : Sorry Wally - it's at https://www.bitmex.com/app/account [2016-05-17 13:59:25] BitMEX_Sam : `Strict IP Pinning` [2016-05-17 13:59:26] BitMEX_Wally : Ahh sorry [2016-05-17 13:59:39] sleger : BitMEX_Wally: If I switch a position from cross to 100x what is the price used as entry price for the margin call ? [2016-05-17 13:59:40] BitMEX_Sam : But I'll look into encoding the current url into the timeout [2016-05-17 13:59:42] j8 : yeah there are a lot of strategies that seem too good to be true with this swap, that's a big red flag in itself [2016-05-17 13:59:49] BitMEX_Sam : Would make sense to return you back. [2016-05-17 13:59:49] giviz : BitMEX_Sam: thx ! [2016-05-17 14:01:18] BitMEX_Sam : sleger: Margin is assigned so that you are as close to exactly 100x as possible [2016-05-17 14:01:29] chromaticcr1 : mrp1nk: futures has priced in the "funding fee" as a premium over spot, you take a cut when you enter the position, for example if you go long now at Sep contract, and assume you can only settle but not sell, you take a 20% cut as premium. the XBTUSD only charges it day by day. [2016-05-17 14:01:40] sleger : BitMEX_Sam: ok thx [2016-05-17 14:01:49] BitMEX_Wally : sleger: If you switch to 100x then it locks out 1% based on the average entry price (the rebalanced one used for unrealised PNL). Plus it adds in any margin to cover an unrealised loss [2016-05-17 14:02:43] chromaticcr1 : mrp1nk: So the fee is actually a way to resemble a structure that is similar to the spot, limiting the perpetual swap to go too far away [2016-05-17 14:03:02] BitMEX_Wally : So if you entered at 400 and price is 399 it locks out 5 as margin, and then your liquidation price is 397 [2016-05-17 14:03:17] BitMEX_Wally : (basically 100x puts your liquidation price as 0.50% below the mark price) [2016-05-17 14:04:35] j8 : which is a big issue if short term demand for the swap is putting it 1% away from the mark price [2016-05-17 14:05:11] j8 : you could have DPE even when there's a liquid market and low volatility, just because the market isn't following your model [2016-05-17 14:05:14] BitMEX_Wally : If you have 100x set then you cannot place a bid more than 0.50% above the mark price [2016-05-17 14:05:23] mrp1nk : chromaticcr1: i understand what your saying, still the okcoin quarterlies premium of around 10 bucks sounds much cheaper compared to 4% per day (on your margin and assuming 100x). I mean, after 25 days your margin got essentially eaten by the "funding fee" [2016-05-17 14:05:29] BitMEX_Wally : (the order would be rejected with "Executing and order price would lead to immediate liquidation") [2016-05-17 14:06:12] j8 : it's an issue because all the losing positions don't have to trade out where the market actually is. [2016-05-17 14:06:52] chromaticcr1 : mrp1nk: yeah, not a good way for one to all in on BitMEX ;) it chips better than the woodchipper [2016-05-17 14:07:22] BitMEX_Wally : 10 bucks is what 2% basis? You could pay 0.04% funding for 50 days before it was 2% [2016-05-17 14:08:04] chromaticcr1 : I guess you are not that savvy to hold your XBT24H or XBT7D on 100x w/o liq.... at least I am not those guys... [2016-05-17 14:08:12] j8 : okc quarterly is down to $6 basis so it's actually cheaper [2016-05-17 14:08:18] BitMEX_Wally : If you're 20x on OKC then paying 2% premiumis 40% of your margin @mrp1nk [2016-05-17 14:08:28] chromaticcr1 : j8: then it provides incentives for you to arbitrage? [2016-05-17 14:08:43] chromaticcr1 : (unless either one play the DPE game...) [2016-05-17 14:09:47] j8 : not enough difference to be worth it, and yeah i'm not involving the swap in my arb / hedge / carry strategies because of my concerns about it [2016-05-17 14:10:26] j8 : i have come to terms with the risk on okc, and even on `XBT24H`, but not this one [2016-05-17 14:11:00] chromaticcr1 : Just wanna also mention that BTCC also has a perpetual contact, which is CNY based. They havent got into the news.... yet! [2016-05-17 14:11:25] BitMEX_Wally : Yeah I remember chatting to Bobby when they launched that [2016-05-17 14:11:33] BitMEX_Wally : You need to have CNY [2016-05-17 14:12:30] BitMEX_Wally : The product seemed designed around mainland laws, so it was a forward rather than a swap [2016-05-17 14:12:56] chromaticcr1 : I tried that on my arb strategy, it wasnt bad, just that I have to keep in mind that I have sold #N coins which I have to add additional contracts (which bears funding fee) to arb [2016-05-17 14:13:45] chromaticcr1 : sell #n coins -> pose as margin -> position n+target --> close and rebuy coin..... [2016-05-17 14:17:18] j8 : i spent a lot of time doing that mental math, then i wrote some scripts that connect to api's and show my net position, rates and various other things in real time. [2016-05-17 14:19:39] chromaticcr1 : Every api got their own thing.... friggin complicates [2016-05-17 14:19:56] j8 : yep, it's a nightmare [2016-05-17 14:20:18] chromaticcr1 : okcoin got a field called explodingPostion, c'mon wtf [2016-05-17 14:20:31] BitMEX_Wally : Makes perfect sense in chinese [2016-05-17 14:20:36] chromaticcr1 : yup [2016-05-17 14:20:55] BitMEX_Wally : 爆仓 [2016-05-17 14:21:33] chromaticcr1 : not long until the next exchange code API with chinese calls only :P [2016-05-17 14:32:11] okaycn : chromaticcr1: 来句中文的,哈哈 [2016-05-17 14:32:29] okaycn : chromaticcr1: 这么还有中文玩家没有 [2016-05-17 14:32:37] okaycn : 这里面 [2016-05-17 14:45:49] sq : lol [2016-05-17 14:50:26] tscha : thanks for explaining DAO in the newsletter [2016-05-17 14:50:52] tscha : I just ignored the term hoping it would go away by itself [2016-05-17 15:04:37] chromaticcr1 : Wishing it DOA :P [2016-05-17 15:05:57] chromaticcr1 : I am also surprised that when everyone doesnt know wtf it is, it could possible set such records... .. [2016-05-17 15:07:42] habibi : i bet most of eth sent into it is from market maker [2016-05-17 15:37:52] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 867 @ 0.02708 [2016-05-17 15:37:52] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 80 @ 0.02688 [2016-05-17 15:37:52] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 340 @ 0.02691 [2016-05-17 15:37:52] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 563 @ 0.02678 [2016-05-17 17:24:28] vbmithr : Why is ETHXBT trading above spot actually? [2016-05-17 17:25:48] ayy_lmao : eth spread is ridiculous [2016-05-17 17:29:01] migz : Cause no traders + bots off. [2016-05-17 18:08:29] kasman5 : What day does the weekly re-balancing usually take place on? [2016-05-17 18:11:20] mrp1nk : friday [2016-05-17 18:38:50] Trebile : If I'm short of 10 contracts and buy 20 of the same contracts does it negate my short of 10 and open a new long of 10? [2016-05-17 18:40:41] tscha : Trebile: yes [2016-05-17 18:41:12] tscha : it doesn't "open a long", but your position changes from -10 (short) to +10 (long) [2016-05-17 19:03:07] rapidtrades : how's it going fellas [2016-05-17 19:03:57] mrp1nk : sup rapid [2016-05-17 19:04:59] Trebile : Ok, I might try that one day. Thanks. [2016-05-17 19:07:03] mrp1nk : i hate to say that, but i'm starting to get slightly bullish on eth [2016-05-17 19:07:59] ram : ETH DUMP coming [2016-05-17 19:08:02] ram : carefullll [2016-05-17 19:09:09] mrp1nk : sure, it will. the question is when [2016-05-17 19:11:27] ram : now i think [2016-05-17 19:11:31] ram : this looks topposh [2016-05-17 19:11:42] kasman5 : ETH bubble will pop, bitcoin will rally. Coincide with the end of the DAO sale. [2016-05-17 19:13:57] rapidtrades : yeah eth rally seems unsustainable but it has to fall a lot from here for me to short it [2016-05-17 19:15:24] rapidtrades : who pays swap in ltc/btc [2016-05-17 19:17:33] mrp1nk : i'm looking at 0.029-0.03 [2016-05-17 19:18:03] kasman5 : mrp1nk: me too [2016-05-17 19:18:41] kasman5 : 0.031 is 85% of all time high [2016-05-17 19:19:09] mrp1nk : i want to short eth sooo bad, but on the other side the dao fomo seems to be real. [2016-05-17 19:20:48] kasman5 : I'm very skeptical about the DAO [2016-05-17 19:21:00] mrp1nk : me2 [2016-05-17 19:21:14] mrp1nk : at this stage it is pure vaporware imo [2016-05-17 19:22:24] kasman5 : its legit, there's actual code, its been done before [2016-05-17 19:22:25] kasman5 : https://steemit.com/crypto-news/@dan/is-the-dao-going-to-be-doa [2016-05-17 19:23:31] mrp1nk : i saw this [2016-05-17 19:25:07] ram : ETH already dumping [2016-05-17 19:26:08] habibi : ram: its higher then last time u said its dumping :p [2016-05-17 19:28:48] ram : dump it [2016-05-17 19:29:38] mrp1nk : u short bru :-)? [2016-05-17 19:31:04] rapidtrades : habibi: keke [2016-05-17 19:31:17] habibi : rapidtrades: ke ke ke, totally agree [2016-05-17 19:32:20] ram : 266 on polo [2016-05-17 19:33:23] rapidtrades : is anywhere is europe cheap during the summer [2016-05-17 19:33:57] rapidtrades : i hate the summer man, temp too high and they always jack up rents [2016-05-17 19:34:14] habibi : http://www.priceoftravel.com/1979/european-backpacker-index/ [2016-05-17 19:34:36] kasman5 : My brothers just been to prague, come back singing its praises [2016-05-17 19:35:04] rapidtrades : tnx but im not doing the backpacking thing [2016-05-17 19:35:12] ram : there we go down [2016-05-17 19:35:13] ram : ETH [2016-05-17 19:37:23] ram : some is dumping ETH big time [2016-05-17 19:37:33] kasman5 : Big dumps /s [2016-05-17 19:38:05] ram : yup [2016-05-17 19:38:05] rapidtrades : hold ur panties, we only dropped 30 pips [2016-05-17 19:38:12] ram : ETH gonna go back to 25 today [2016-05-17 19:38:17] ram : or even 235 [2016-05-17 19:39:21] kasman5 : /s means sarcasm. Ram clearly you're trying to get out of a short postion [2016-05-17 19:40:47] ayy_lmao : 25 is possible [2016-05-17 19:41:51] rapidtrades : 15 is possible too doesn't mean you should bet on it [2016-05-17 19:42:08] kasman5 : anything is possible of course [2016-05-17 19:42:29] kasman5 : I personally don't think well go much lower than 0.026 [2016-05-17 19:47:49] ayy_lmao : yah well eth been on a pretty big upmove [2016-05-17 19:48:04] ayy_lmao : higher chance for low than higher imho [2016-05-17 19:48:37] rapidtrades : that backpacker list in BS, says 2016 but there are comments from 2012 @habibi [2016-05-17 19:48:51] habibi : rapidtrades: sounds fishy [2016-05-17 19:49:13] ayy_lmao : i love this chat [2016-05-17 19:49:35] ayy_lmao : there is like 10 dedicated ppl here and they are the only ones who talk [2016-05-17 19:49:39] ayy_lmao : lol [2016-05-17 19:50:17] kasman5 : I like the site, wish there was liquidity [2016-05-17 19:50:22] habibi : thats good, isn't it :)? still better than typical trollboxes [2016-05-17 19:50:43] BitMEX_Sam : At least some mutual respect here [2016-05-17 19:50:57] BitMEX_Sam : It can get pretty nasty on some of the other chats. [2016-05-17 19:54:04] keroub : Just a question :) [2016-05-17 19:54:09] keroub : When funding is paid on swaps [2016-05-17 19:54:57] keroub : What happens to your position? [2016-05-17 19:55:49] keroub : For equity when there is a dividend paid, simultaneously the price drops [2016-05-17 19:56:39] keroub : Mmh, this is very different here, since it's cash that is transfered from one person to the other [2016-05-17 19:57:45] keroub : Ra [2016-05-17 19:57:53] BitMEX_Sam : We add basis to the contract that decays slowly over the course of the day [2016-05-17 19:57:58] keroub : Sam: What is the Bots number on top of the trollbox, also? [2016-05-17 19:57:59] BitMEX_Sam : At the same time funding is paid/received, the basis is re-applied [2016-05-17 19:58:19] BitMEX_Sam : keroub: I count the number of open connections to the browser websocket & the API websocket, which are slightly different endpoints [2016-05-17 19:58:37] keroub : I see. [2016-05-17 19:58:37] BitMEX_Sam : It's not an exact measure but it's a pretty good one for tracking usage [2016-05-17 20:04:33] keroub : I don't understand, for the basis… [2016-05-17 20:05:38] keroub : I think there is a fundamental thing I don't understand in derivatives [2016-05-17 20:06:01] keroub : Say, the value of a contract is 1 ETH [2016-05-17 20:06:31] keroub : But in the end you buy and sell at whatever price the market is [2016-05-17 20:07:55] BitMEX_Sam : Yes, but every contract has a multiplier that you use * price to determine the actual value [2016-05-17 20:08:11] BitMEX_Sam : E.g. XBTUSD contracts are always US$1, but that's converted into Satoshis [2016-05-17 20:08:33] BitMEX_Sam : So at e.g. 452.82, 1 XBTUSD contract is roughly 0.0022 Bitcoin [2016-05-17 20:11:11] keroub : In the case of ETHXBT the multiplier is 1 [2016-05-17 20:13:00] BitMEX_Sam : Yes, so the value of each contract in Bitcoin is exactly equal to its price [2016-05-17 20:13:02] BitMEX_Sam : Very simple. :) [2016-05-17 20:13:46] keroub : And it's a swap because when you pay the price to be long this contract, you get interest rate [2016-05-17 20:13:54] keroub : It's like lending money somewhere [2016-05-17 20:14:12] BitMEX_Sam : It's designed to emulate margin trading, but with more leverage & the convenience of being entirely in Bitcoin [2016-05-17 20:14:31] BitMEX_Sam : The interest rates make it easy to hedge / arb against margin trading platforms [2016-05-17 20:15:40] keroub : I see [2016-05-17 20:16:03] keroub : So I can do, say, market making [2016-05-17 20:16:08] keroub : and hedge my net position on poloniex [2016-05-17 20:16:27] keroub : by taking the reverse position there [2016-05-17 20:16:28] keroub : and that's it [2016-05-17 20:16:38] BitMEX_Sam : Exactly [2016-05-17 20:18:14] keroub : Still the thing I don't understand [2016-05-17 20:18:31] keroub : What if you buy the contract just before receiving the funding, and sell it just after [2016-05-17 20:18:53] keroub : How the basis gets added? [2016-05-17 20:20:12] keroub : All the orders in the orderbook suddenly drop in price? [2016-05-17 20:20:25] habibi : nope, polo api ddos a bit [2016-05-17 20:21:02] BitMEX_Sam : keroub: No, the mark price of the contract rises just after funding and decays until the next event [2016-05-17 20:21:24] BitMEX_Sam : Notice that the mark price of XBTUSD is 453.11 but the underlying index is 452.98 [2016-05-17 20:21:57] BitMEX_Sam : You generally wouldn't want to buy before funding and sell after, because longs pay shorts [2016-05-17 20:22:04] BitMEX_Sam : But the interest rate can go negative in certain situations [2016-05-17 20:22:48] keroub : in ETHXBT, currently, longs receive and shorts pay [2016-05-17 20:23:31] keroub : Yeah because negative interest rate [2016-05-17 20:24:12] PatioCrasher : polo down? [2016-05-17 20:24:35] PatioCrasher : Kraken down as well? [2016-05-17 20:24:40] PatioCrasher : wtf [2016-05-17 20:24:54] habibi : its called dEth effect [2016-05-17 20:25:25] zanza : ETH master race [2016-05-17 20:25:37] migz : Kraken is okay, it just no action is going on. [2016-05-17 20:25:46] PatioCrasher : oh ok. [2016-05-17 20:25:50] mrp1nk : lol [2016-05-17 20:26:50] BitMEX_Sam : keroub: Sure - so you'll see the mark price for ETH is actually below the index price because of the negative interest rate. [2016-05-17 20:26:52] PatioCrasher : ppl still trading on the API? [2016-05-17 20:27:05] BitMEX_Sam : API is throwing errors for price data as well [2016-05-17 20:27:12] PatioCrasher : oh ok. [2016-05-17 20:28:44] migz : going up 270 XD [2016-05-17 20:28:58] PatioCrasher : kraken pumping [2016-05-17 20:28:58] PatioCrasher : lol [2016-05-17 20:29:30] keroub : Sam: OK I understand now [2016-05-17 20:29:32] habibi : on no volume, but yea, they did it several times already, pumping on minor exchanges when polo is dumping [2016-05-17 20:29:49] PatioCrasher : Bitmex_Sam will the average mark price just ignore polo now? or will it freeze up? [2016-05-17 20:30:49] BitMEX_Sam : We continually attempt to get price data until it comes back - so technically yes, if there is a disruption the price will freeze [2016-05-17 20:31:05] BitMEX_Sam : If it is disrupted for a long period of time we may declare a Market Disruption Event and change the index [2016-05-17 20:31:13] habibi : glad that failover to kraken is not kicking in [2016-05-17 20:31:16] PatioCrasher : Oh no. Ok. Hope it gets sorted soon [2016-05-17 20:31:29] BitMEX_Sam : See https://www.bitmex.com/app/exchangeGuide#market-disruption-event-mde [2016-05-17 20:32:30] PatioCrasher : Ok will do. Thanks. [2016-05-17 20:32:32] BitMEX_Sam : It appears data is posting again. [2016-05-17 20:33:10] PatioCrasher : OK nice. Was just a hickup [2016-05-17 20:33:55] PatioCrasher : Up up and away! :P [2016-05-17 20:51:41] micmix : BitMEX_Sam: Hey Sam! Can you show PNL since last rebalance in the positions table, maybe on hover? Lifetime PNL is not very useful for perpetual swap. [2016-05-17 20:52:01] BitMEX_Sam : That's what unrealised PNL is. [2016-05-17 20:52:19] BitMEX_Sam : Unless you're referring to something else? [2016-05-17 20:52:33] micmix : no, it's not. I'm talking about realised PNL [2016-05-17 20:53:14] micmix : my bots open and close position 50+ times per day, all profit goes to realised PNL column [2016-05-17 20:54:42] BitMEX_Sam : Ah I see. [2016-05-17 20:54:57] micmix : as far as I remember you have realisedPnl and rebalancedPnl in the positions table [2016-05-17 20:55:10] micmix : you are showing only one of those in the UI [2016-05-17 20:55:10] BitMEX_Sam : Let me see what I can have Wally cook together, I get where you're going - for now it can be of course calculated from executions but that is somewhat cumbersome. [2016-05-17 20:57:10] BitMEX_Sam : We show `realisedPnl` + `rebalancedPnl` in the UI. [2016-05-17 21:03:15] micmix : BitMEX_Sam: yes, could you show just realisedPnl on hover? that would be PNL since last rebalance [2016-05-17 21:06:33] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah I can add that. [2016-05-17 21:16:47] micmix : thanks [2016-05-17 21:25:00] ram : short ETH now [2016-05-17 21:25:02] ram : if u like money [2016-05-17 21:36:10] rapidtrades : ^^ this guy [2016-05-17 21:52:47] ram : if anyone listened on last trades [2016-05-17 21:52:52] ram : u should have made nice money [2016-05-17 21:53:14] rapidtrades : what are u talking aboout, we're at the highs [2016-05-17 21:53:15] ram : i started shorting at 27 here [2016-05-17 21:53:38] rapidtrades : 50 ticks is not ''nice money'' sir [2016-05-17 21:53:49] rapidtrades : we gone up 400 today [2016-05-17 21:54:07] micmix : long/short doesn't matter, just use 33x isolated to make sure you'll get rekt [2016-05-17 21:55:06] rapidtrades : micmix: do u trade anything outside of crypto? [2016-05-17 21:55:17] micmix : no [2016-05-17 21:56:34] mrp1nk : lmao [2016-05-17 21:58:12] rapidtrades : mrp1nk: ? [2016-05-17 21:58:35] mrp1nk : i lol'ed at that dialog between u and ram [2016-05-17 21:59:39] rapidtrades : newbs are so confident about each trade :) [2016-05-17 22:02:39] mrp1nk : yea, at the end, who knows what will happen, especially with shitcoins like eth [2016-05-17 22:06:23] micmix : someone was saying ETH coming to okc? [2016-05-17 22:07:00] rapidtrades : still nothing [2016-05-17 22:07:12] rapidtrades : but did u notice that btc-e added it 2 weeks ago lol [2016-05-17 22:08:43] rapidtrades : was the okc thing a rumor or what [2016-05-17 22:08:49] micmix : really? didn't login to btc-e for like a month [2016-05-17 22:09:29] rapidtrades : yeah i only noticed it few days ago cos i mostly use mt4 [2016-05-17 22:09:46] micmix : I just tried okc, no sign of ETH anywhere and the API defaults to BTC if you try to use eth_cny symbol [2016-05-17 22:10:15] PatioCrasher : there twitter says negative on the rumour [2016-05-17 22:10:27] mrp1nk : they denied is afaik [2016-05-17 22:11:04] rapidtrades : nice... [2016-05-17 22:11:15] rapidtrades : if they denied it, they're prolly not doing it [2016-05-17 22:12:37] micmix : I guess ppl still believe the rumor bc finex denied too [2016-05-17 22:13:27] mrp1nk : on telegram someone claimed that he talked to the okcoin devs and they said "They decided not to add eth in the near future, Not the right time they said" [2016-05-17 22:14:12] PatioCrasher : they haven't accumulated enough in other words . . [2016-05-17 22:14:26] mrp1nk : anyway, if they add it it may be shorting time [2016-05-17 22:17:49] billz : what do you guys think of btc outlook today? Hasn't decreased much considering this ETH rise over the past two days. [2016-05-17 22:18:09] rapidtrades : it will either go higher or lower [2016-05-17 22:19:55] billz : lol true not much movement yet though but seems to be treading lower, hoping for a rebound in 451s but lets see [2016-05-17 22:22:20] micmix : I would stay hedged, everyone expects a halvening pump, it can end badly [2016-05-17 22:22:43] mrp1nk : ^ this [2016-05-17 22:25:05] rapidtrades : still long btc here [2016-05-17 22:25:50] PatioCrasher : I'm stilll long both.. Long BTC as a hedge against my eth long. :) [2016-05-17 22:25:51] billz : too late for that lol i'm either gonna be rekt or raking. Still long as well [2016-05-17 22:27:38] micmix : PatioCrasher: I wouldn't call it a hedge. You are betting on inverse correlation but I'm sure major btc crash will crash all alts as well in USD terms [2016-05-17 22:28:48] PatioCrasher : True. But at that point it doesnt really matter as we will all be rekt. @micmix [2016-05-17 22:29:04] micmix : not all of us :smile: [2016-05-17 22:29:13] mrp1nk : i'm ofc long too, but everyone long af makes me also slightly nervous. one last big "fuc k you wick" to scare some of this longs out would surely be possible. still the outlook seems bullish [2016-05-17 22:29:14] rapidtrades : ^^^ [2016-05-17 22:30:04] micmix : I agree to the bullish outlook overall, just being cautious [2016-05-17 22:31:10] lockhedge : micmix: a question i wanted to ask since i saw you in the leaderboard: what's your average leverage here? [2016-05-17 22:31:32] billz : there's a leaderboard? wut [2016-05-17 22:31:54] lockhedge : https://www.bitmex.com/app/leaderboard [2016-05-17 22:32:30] micmix : lockhedge: micmix is my dev/test account, I just run test on this account with very low leverage [2016-05-17 22:32:55] billz : lol goals [2016-05-17 22:33:15] micmix : it's 0.69x right now, I think max was maybe 2.5x [2016-05-17 22:33:50] micmix : MM account runs with 2x-3x [2016-05-17 22:35:01] billz : kinda disappointing to see so few account making over 300% :( [2016-05-17 22:35:11] billz : accts [2016-05-17 22:35:19] rapidtrades : LOL [2016-05-17 22:36:15] rapidtrades : 300% not good enough for this guy [2016-05-17 22:36:25] micmix : lockhedge: are on the board as well? [2016-05-17 22:41:28] billz : lmao i'm here for 1000% or bust [2016-05-17 22:41:45] lockhedge : micmix: no, made about 85% YTD and didn't have a lot of money in this account last year. decreased leverage to about 0.5x average but thinking about increasing it again. your results motivate me :) [2016-05-17 22:41:46] billz : but for now i am going to hedge this 50x btc long after seeing that list i'm kinda nervous haha [2016-05-17 22:42:58] rapidtrades : lockhedge: he's a market maker [2016-05-17 22:43:30] micmix : lockhedge: tscha said that his two accounts are on both lists, that should motivate you even more :smile: [2016-05-17 22:44:32] lockhedge : rapidtrades: me too, i'm only market making here. i'm not a good trader ;) [2016-05-17 22:44:40] micmix : billz: the problem is not getting on that list, the problem is staying there [2016-05-17 22:45:55] micmix : the guy who made 540 coins is not in top ROE, and the second guy with 335 coins profit has 236% ROE [2016-05-17 22:47:04] lockhedge : micmix: my guess was that Cream-White-Ox is tscha, but didn't know that he had 2 accounts [2016-05-17 22:47:48] billz : micmix: wow true, ginger-coconut-mark is the biggest savage here with that ROE [2016-05-17 22:48:23] micmix : I don't think tscha made 335 coins here but he promised to unmask his account for me [2016-05-17 22:48:23] billz : seems he went from 1 btc to 18.88 [2016-05-17 22:52:15] micmix : don't forget that you can exclude your account from the list, so maybe we don't see the biggest guys [2016-05-17 23:07:20] rapidtrades : there's been studies that ppl make only 1/2 of the returns of the SP500 [2016-05-17 23:08:16] rapidtrades : to make matters worse, its the same for bonds [2016-05-17 23:09:34] rapidtrades : Most ppl are so stupid with their money that they significantly under-perform an asset that has strong upward bias [2016-05-17 23:11:33] rapidtrades : billz: don't assume you'll be any different [2016-05-17 23:13:12] rapidtrades : btw i think those are the stats of ppl invested in funds, so they're not even taking on the risk themselves [2016-05-17 23:14:35] billz : @rapidtrades interesting i'll keep that in mind [2016-05-17 23:17:35] rapidtrades : they lost half of the profits by jumping around even though they had their money in long only stock funds...let that sink in [2016-05-17 23:25:11] Skuffone : do chart not work on bitmex anymore? [2016-05-17 23:27:12] lockhedge : what do you guys think about Open Interest on XBTUSD? will it lead to higher/more frequent DPE than XBT24H? [2016-05-17 23:29:19] rapidtrades : why does june have 2,900 btc open interest? [2016-05-17 23:33:53] lockhedge : rapidtrades: "long term" futures always had high OI in relation to volume/liquidity but they only allow 25x, so i guess DPE risk is lower [2016-05-17 23:34:24] rapidtrades : fair point but sept only has 500 [2016-05-17 23:44:42] lockhedge : rapidtrades: didn't XBTM16 launch 3 month before XBTU16? Total Volume / Open Interest is about 5 on both contracts, so i'd say it's just more OI because it had more life-time volume [2016-05-17 23:46:47] j8 : september hasn't really picked up yet, june gets arbed with okc quarterly which has huge OI [2016-05-17 23:50:01] j8 : it's harder to price sept without an inverse contract [2016-05-17 23:54:53] micmix : I just know that the XBTUSD daily volume is about 40-50% lower than 24H+48H+7D daily volume [2016-05-17 23:55:37] BitMEX_Sam : Yes - we expected that it would be lower as we've effectively removed some of the arb opportunities that were possible there. [2016-05-17 23:55:57] BitMEX_Sam : We expect it to recover over time as we capitalize on the relative simplicity of XBTUSD over the multiple-contract structure. [2016-05-17 23:56:51] micmix : A lot of volume was lost bc traders don't have to re-enter positions daily/weekly. I hope the volume increases with time [2016-05-17 23:58:57] BitMEX_Arthur : We are looking at this from a strategic long term point of view [2016-05-17 23:58:58] lockhedge : j8: at okc 24h volume is higher then OI, even at the quarterly contract. 820,032Cont vs. 590,077Cont (but maybe be partly fake volume) [2016-05-17 23:59:17] BitMEX_Arthur : Futures contracts confuse too many people, we hope one contract, high leverage, no expiry [2016-05-17 23:59:26] BitMEX_Arthur : feels just like spot trading with high leverage [2016-05-17 23:59:47] micmix : BitMEX_Arthur: it's easier for regular traders, so the volume should pick up [2016-05-17 23:59:58] BitMEX_Arthur : That is our thesis [2016-05-18 00:00:02] j8 : lockhedge: that's pretty crazy, although i think volume is double counted but OI isn't (must not be since it's odd) [2016-05-18 00:01:57] micmix : new swap is definitely easier to hedge for MMs [2016-05-18 00:03:31] BitMEX_Arthur : `XBTUSD` on screen liquidity has improved [2016-05-18 00:03:35] BitMEX_Arthur : the book is getting deeper [2016-05-18 00:03:54] BitMEX_Arthur : We have plans for synthetic USD [2016-05-18 00:04:00] BitMEX_Arthur : which XBTUSD is a necessary compenent [2016-05-18 00:21:21] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 176 @ 0.02711 [2016-05-18 00:26:55] mrp1nk : one does not simply short an uptrend [2016-05-18 00:30:08] Thedude : BitMEX_Arthur: As a "regular" margin trader i'm loving the perpetual contract trading. It's really great gonna move most of my trading to bitmex it's been a great experience ? [2016-05-18 00:41:36] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 410 @ 0.02743 [2016-05-18 01:01:07] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 700 @ 0.02759 [2016-05-18 01:26:58] NukeLaloosh : BitMEX_Arthur: am I able to see the daily funding settlements on my account for ETHXBT? [2016-05-18 01:30:29] lockhedge : NukeLaloosh: in your trade history www.bitmex.com/app/tradeHistory [2016-05-18 01:31:40] lockhedge : use {"execType":"Funding"} if you only want to see Funding [2016-05-18 01:32:45] NukeLaloosh : lockhedge: ok i see it there, thank you [2016-05-18 01:42:16] NukeLaloosh : .ETHPON24 shows yesterday's rate .3783%. Shouldn't that be 0.03783% ? [2016-05-18 01:44:18] NukeLaloosh : i can only go back as far as 2016-05-17T23:39:00.000Z on the csv download but even that shows rates in the 0.03% neighborhood [2016-05-18 01:53:27] arbitrage001 : NukeLaloosh: rate is taken from polo [2016-05-18 01:53:43] arbitrage001 : which fluctuate a lot [2016-05-18 01:56:35] NukeLaloosh : 10x is a lot of fluctuation [2016-05-18 01:57:18] arbitrage001 : NukeLaloosh: not in crypto world [2016-05-18 01:58:22] miramm1115 : NukeLaloosh: 0.3783% is correct, lots of ETH is tied up in DAO [2016-05-18 01:59:21] arbitrage001 : i am seeing 0.3440 [2016-05-18 01:59:30] NukeLaloosh : looking at polo eth rates now, amont is tens of thousands deep just to reach .05% [2016-05-18 01:59:32] arbitrage001 : where is 0.3783 from? [2016-05-18 02:00:12] NukeLaloosh : .3783% was yesterday's ETHPON24H index [2016-05-18 02:01:54] lockhedge : NukeLaloosh: you can click on Funding in the Execution Type column or copy {"execType":"Funding"} into the text field and click Search to filter results for your .csv [2016-05-18 02:02:06] NukeLaloosh : around .0003 (not in % terms, so 0.03%) were the minute rates taken for ETHPON [2016-05-18 02:03:02] NukeLaloosh : ... late on the 17th that is [2016-05-18 02:06:12] miramm1115 : https://www.bitmex.com/app/index/.ETHPON and click 5d [2016-05-18 02:06:29] miramm1115 : you will see big spikes on the chart [2016-05-18 02:06:55] miramm1115 : it was up to 1.4% at one point [2016-05-18 02:08:04] NukeLaloosh : miramm1115: wow [2016-05-18 02:09:45] NukeLaloosh : ok yeah that satisfies my curiosity, thank you. seems unlikely to have 10X swings on a lending rate, but arbitrage001 says not in crypto [2016-05-18 02:10:49] miramm1115 : it's common to see rates spike before/during the pump, pumpers are trying to make shorting expensive [2016-05-18 02:32:21] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 3 @ 0.02777 :punch: :whale: [2016-05-18 02:34:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 34 @ 0.02800 [2016-05-18 02:54:07] j8 : miramm1115: to do that you'd need to borrow without shorting right? i don't think you can do that on polo [2016-05-18 02:54:34] billz : don't even want to short this w that rate [2016-05-18 02:54:55] billz : might do a quick scalp though [2016-05-18 03:01:37] miramm1115 : j8: you short into your own bids using multiple accounts on the way up, and close your shorts after the dump. other traders do the rest [2016-05-18 03:02:26] miramm1115 : just need lots of money to play like that, so it's much easier with smaller alts [2016-05-18 03:02:30] j8 : that makes sense [2016-05-18 03:03:41] miramm1115 : hard to do on big alts like ETH unless supply is restricted [2016-05-18 03:04:20] j8 : 15% or so in the DAO.. probably a lot of that was being loaned [2016-05-18 03:05:10] miramm1115 : 15% of total ETH and probably 30-50% of actively traded/loaned ETH [2016-05-18 03:05:21] j8 : yeah [2016-05-18 03:07:03] miramm1115 : just to be clear I'm not involved in any of that, it's illegal market manipulation [2016-05-18 03:09:52] j8 : of course. it's important to think about these things so you know how you're getting screwed [2016-05-18 03:33:36] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 70 @ 0.02820 [2016-05-18 03:33:36] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 75 @ 0.02821 [2016-05-18 04:01:54] diepnh : hi [2016-05-18 04:01:59] diepnh : anybody here [2016-05-18 04:04:00] diepnh : if I want to speculate Ether for long, what should I do ? [2016-05-18 04:04:26] diepnh : spot trading, margin trading, future contract? [2016-05-18 04:05:30] miramm1115 : if you think Ether will go up, click Etherium and buy ETHXBT [2016-05-18 04:05:41] diepnh : yes [2016-05-18 04:05:45] diepnh : but my question is [2016-05-18 04:05:51] diepnh : such as I have 100$ [2016-05-18 04:06:01] diepnh : but I want to use leverage [2016-05-18 04:06:15] diepnh : I see the max leverage is 33:1 [2016-05-18 04:06:37] diepnh : so, if I buy 100$ Ether with 10:1 leverage [2016-05-18 04:06:52] diepnh : if Ether goes down, [2016-05-18 04:07:12] diepnh : when I lost all my balance 100$? [2016-05-18 04:07:23] diepnh : I mean about margin call [2016-05-18 04:09:41] miramm1115 : the order confirmation dialog shows estimated liquidation price, you can see when you are going to be margin called [2016-05-18 04:10:30] diepnh : it's on dialog after I ordered? [2016-05-18 04:11:40] miramm1115 : after you click Buy it will show all info and ask you to confirm the order. you can click cancel if you don't want to buy [2016-05-18 04:11:50] diepnh : oh, it's nice, [2016-05-18 04:11:51] diepnh : thank u [2016-05-18 04:11:53] diepnh : :-) [2016-05-18 04:12:13] miramm1115 : or you can do the math yourself :smile: [2016-05-18 04:16:28] diepnh : yep [2016-05-18 04:16:35] diepnh : But I don't know the concept [2016-05-18 04:17:46] lockhedge : look at the contract specs https://www.bitmex.com/app/contract/ETHXBT Initial Margin and Maintenance Margin [2016-05-18 04:23:28] diepnh : thank u [2016-05-18 05:05:49] ayy_lmao : eth spread yet again shit [2016-05-18 05:13:18] billz : yeah spread sucks but w this rise it doesn't matter if your long lol [2016-05-18 05:13:35] billz : sucks for shorting though [2016-05-18 05:26:59] billz : no one is buying btc here though even though it's above 454, liquidity on here can really get annoying despite these massive margins [2016-05-18 05:37:32] miramm1115 : billz: you can buy 30k worth of btc with like 40c slippage, that's not too bad [2016-05-18 07:48:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 28 @ 0.02833 [2016-05-18 08:14:36] rapidtrades : billz: still short bud? [2016-05-18 08:16:51] billz : rapidtrades: nope put in an sell order in the 0.029s though [2016-05-18 08:19:21] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 200 @ 0.02860 [2016-05-18 08:23:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 133 @ 0.02868 [2016-05-18 08:23:19] zanza : how you like the new perpetuals rapidtrades ? [2016-05-18 08:23:21] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 16 @ 0.02869 [2016-05-18 08:33:28] rapidtrades : zanza: its shit [2016-05-18 08:34:47] zanza : reason ? [2016-05-18 08:35:04] rapidtrades : no settlement, no quanto [2016-05-18 08:35:31] rapidtrades : its just spot at 100/1 with clawback risk [2016-05-18 08:36:16] tscha : how is the volume/open value of the new swap compared to the 24h+48h+weekly? [2016-05-18 08:37:05] rapidtrades : idk...we used to settle 40-50k on slow days and +100k [2016-05-18 08:37:13] rapidtrades : on action days [2016-05-18 08:37:39] rapidtrades : now says 500k open interest [2016-05-18 08:38:12] BitMEX_Arthur : Open interest is larger, trading volumes lower but we believe in the long run this will be a vastly superior product [2016-05-18 08:39:52] trestres : BitMEX_Arthur: I see you are not updating leaderboard. There are a reason? [2016-05-18 08:40:04] rapidtrades : we'll see...right now there's some 20-30 cents premium to long plus i have to pay daily interest [2016-05-18 08:40:25] rapidtrades : compared to other futures that's not very competitve...for shorts maybe [2016-05-18 08:40:57] rapidtrades : but then again when shorting on other platforms ur gonna collect the premium so [2016-05-18 08:41:45] rapidtrades : personally i only see myself trading here when i need the leverage, which could happen [2016-05-18 08:41:59] rapidtrades : not that easy to get leverage on eth and ltc [2016-05-18 08:43:42] BitMEX_Arthur : trestres: what do you mean not updating [2016-05-18 08:45:15] trestres : till past week updating was in real time... now the numbers are the same of 4-5 days ago [2016-05-18 08:45:21] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 23 @ 0.02896 [2016-05-18 08:46:41] BitMEX_Arthur : trestres: I'll check [2016-05-18 08:47:16] trestres : tnks ;-) [2016-05-18 09:12:06] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 1175 @ 0.02884 [2016-05-18 09:20:28] mrp1nk : #toldya [2016-05-18 09:23:05] mrp1nk : right hereis much more legit short entry for eth, but i'm not sure if the dETH train will stop here. probably retrace a little bit [2016-05-18 09:24:58] billz : yup managed to scalp a quick short for a decent profit, 0.03 is a pretty big wall right now [2016-05-18 09:29:15] mrp1nk : if this level breaks, then i wouldn't wonder if it comes close to the ATH [2016-05-18 09:31:49] billz : Yeah I agree will probably try for 0.04 if that happens, buy orders going crazy on polo so that may just happen [2016-05-18 09:35:55] mrp1nk : anyway, i'm looking forward to the day on which that dao/eth bubble pops [2016-05-18 09:39:55] billz : I'm hoping it lasts until atleast lisk is released since i'm heavily invested in it but it will probably pop following the end of DAO sale is what i'm thinking [2016-05-18 09:56:25] billz : .0296 was a really good short area [2016-05-18 09:59:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 42 @ 0.02940 [2016-05-18 10:00:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 2162 @ 0.02949 [2016-05-18 10:01:16] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 1000 @ 0.02957 [2016-05-18 10:04:10] billz : lol well it's not anymore [2016-05-18 10:05:32] habibi : :D [2016-05-18 10:05:33] mrp1nk : haha, yeah [2016-05-18 10:05:44] mrp1nk : up is up [2016-05-18 10:11:04] mrp1nk : i have 0.295x as s/r level, so it already broke. will see if breakout or fakout [2016-05-18 10:11:25] arbitrage001 : kudo to you [2016-05-18 10:11:34] arbitrage001 : need balls of steel to hold eth [2016-05-18 10:11:45] arbitrage001 : mine is balls of cotton [2016-05-18 10:11:57] Spofas : sounds fluffy [2016-05-18 10:12:26] mrp1nk : thx, but i'm not holding any eth tbh [2016-05-18 10:12:35] arbitrage001 : o [2016-05-18 10:12:42] arbitrage001 : are you short? [2016-05-18 10:12:45] mrp1nk : just trading it [2016-05-18 10:12:52] mrp1nk : nope [2016-05-18 10:13:04] mrp1nk : currently i'm waiting [2016-05-18 10:13:10] arbitrage001 : rate is too high to short [2016-05-18 10:13:23] mrp1nk : slightly tempted to yolo long [2016-05-18 10:13:42] arbitrage001 : i am tempted to do interest rate arbitrage [2016-05-18 10:14:16] arbitrage001 : very cheap to short on finex [2016-05-18 10:14:30] arbitrage001 : and then long here [2016-05-18 10:14:49] arbitrage001 : capture the lending rate difference [2016-05-18 10:15:01] mrp1nk : sounds legit [2016-05-18 10:19:31] rapidtrades : FU.CK [2016-05-18 10:20:47] arbitrage001 : rapidtrades: sup [2016-05-18 10:20:58] arbitrage001 : are you short eth? [2016-05-18 10:21:51] sq : arbitrage001: u mean eth? [2016-05-18 10:22:05] arbitrage001 : sq: ? [2016-05-18 10:22:12] sq : the i/r diff [2016-05-18 10:22:15] sq : on ethbtc? [2016-05-18 10:22:24] sq : or ? [2016-05-18 10:22:34] arbitrage001 : doesnt matter eth or usd [2016-05-18 10:22:40] arbitrage001 : or btc [2016-05-18 10:22:53] arbitrage001 : you can convert and calculate cost basis [2016-05-18 10:23:18] sq : cool [2016-05-18 10:24:06] billz : c'mon someone do something on ETH [2016-05-18 10:25:55] Mangalica : and by something it'd be best to sell 5k BTC worth on a market order imo [2016-05-18 10:26:12] billz : I think we might be going down for a bit on ETH, massive buy wall put up on polo following big sell wall at lower price [2016-05-18 10:26:44] arbitrage001 : billz: big walls are usually bluff [2016-05-18 10:27:03] arbitrage001 : testing the market so to say [2016-05-18 10:27:52] billz : past few sell walls were real though, buy wall hasn't been tested yet but we'll see [2016-05-18 10:28:07] arbitrage001 : billz: hence the price went up [2016-05-18 10:28:09] billz : Not sure if i wanna short this again though [2016-05-18 10:28:17] arbitrage001 : cu there are no one calling the bluff [2016-05-18 10:28:45] arbitrage001 : or was deeply penetrated [2016-05-18 10:28:55] arbitrage001 : hence price went up [2016-05-18 10:34:52] billz : yeah buy wall gone [2016-05-18 10:35:17] billz : moved actually [2016-05-18 10:35:24] billz : closer lol [2016-05-18 10:36:13] keroub : How to reset the chart? [2016-05-18 10:39:28] billz : WE"VE DONE IT [2016-05-18 10:41:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 2 @ 0.03027 :punch: :whale: [2016-05-18 10:41:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 50 @ 0.03023 [2016-05-18 10:41:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 40 @ 0.03028 [2016-05-18 10:41:23] billz : my god i might just set my sell order higher lol [2016-05-18 10:43:09] billz : ETH smoking a special blend of hopium this morning [2016-05-18 10:44:19] mrp1nk : wuhu [2016-05-18 10:47:16] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 79 @ 0.03068 [2016-05-18 10:47:21] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 250 @ 0.03074 [2016-05-18 10:49:25] billz : going st8 to test 0.037 w no stops lol [2016-05-18 11:02:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 911 @ 0.03116 [2016-05-18 11:02:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 167 @ 0.03110 [2016-05-18 11:02:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 1 @ 0.03109 :punch: :whale: [2016-05-18 11:02:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 130 @ 0.03115 [2016-05-18 11:03:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 45 @ 0.03144 [2016-05-18 11:04:03] billz : 200k in sell orders left on polo lol [2016-05-18 11:04:44] billz : no more eth available soon at this rate lol [2016-05-18 11:05:19] germanjew : lol this is quite the run! [2016-05-18 11:06:06] haxmb : rekt rekt reekt rekt [2016-05-18 11:06:24] haxmb : BitMEX_Arthur: hey, any of you lot tere? [2016-05-18 11:07:36] BitMEX_Arthur : haxmb: how can I help [2016-05-18 11:08:16] haxmb : BitMEX_Arthur: i am having troubles with your API [2016-05-18 11:08:19] haxmb : public and auth [2016-05-18 11:08:34] haxmb : you guys seem to be randomly blocking my connections completely [2016-05-18 11:10:00] BitMEX_Arthur : Are you throwing a lot of errors on your bot? We automatically ban ip's that throw too many errors in a short period of time. If you are testin. Something please use Testnet