This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2016-05-13 17:04:37] Blargwaffle : The spreads on the dated are kind of eh.
[2016-05-13 17:04:42] testacc : yes, but swap is close to spot, there is no premium there, right?
[2016-05-13 17:05:02] Blargwaffle : Very little to none.
[2016-05-13 17:05:20] testacc : ok, so my original thesis of earning ~2x interest is correct?
[2016-05-13 17:05:24] testacc : with swaps
[2016-05-13 17:05:57] testacc : (I suppose if BTC rates go up, then shorting swap becomes unprofitable)
[2016-05-13 17:06:13] Blargwaffle : If it goes up more than the interest, yeah.
[2016-05-13 17:06:28] Blargwaffle : Or, if the interest balance on Bitfinex changes.
[2016-05-13 17:07:25] testacc : If I short BTC on (XBTU16), am I guaranteed to make $100 per BTC by 30sept?
[2016-05-13 17:08:08] Blargwaffle : If you're correct on the price movement or lack thereof.
[2016-05-13 17:08:21] testacc : well, suppose I also have LONG spot
[2016-05-13 17:08:28] testacc : so I just collect the premium?
[2016-05-13 17:08:43] testacc : it can't be this easy, there has gotta be a trick somewhere
[2016-05-13 17:09:17] Blargwaffle : Weren't there blog posts/emails about taking advantage of calendar spreads?
[2016-05-13 17:09:28] Blargwaffle : Or, whatever the name might be for futures...
[2016-05-13 17:09:51] j8 : the june and september contracts are quanto futures, although, that's really not clear now
[2016-05-13 17:10:10] testacc : oh right, quanto futures have non-linear returns, could I get rekt on that?
[2016-05-13 17:10:15] j8 : yes
[2016-05-13 17:10:20] testacc : that's the trick then
[2016-05-13 17:10:23] testacc : Ill stick to swaps
[2016-05-13 17:10:30] testacc : I'm not a trader
[2016-05-13 17:10:41] j8 : they are actually on the cheap side at the moment, i think.
[2016-05-13 17:10:50] testacc : j8, for longs or shorts?
[2016-05-13 17:11:13] podizzle3k : i thoguht i saw dao/eth was listed on mobile why dont i see it on desktop
[2016-05-13 17:11:18] j8 : cheap as in good to get long
[2016-05-13 17:11:50] testacc : why would you go long futures vs spot (aside from leverage)?
[2016-05-13 17:11:52] j8 : given the halving coming up, volatility could be high, and that benefits the long term quanto's
[2016-05-13 17:12:11] podizzle3k : premiums on the long terms too
[2016-05-13 17:12:12] testacc : ok, I guess if volatility goes up, can premiums go up as well?
[2016-05-13 17:12:23] j8 : yes, a lot
[2016-05-13 17:12:43] testacc : aha. One more question. On settlement day, the future settles with spot price of that day?
[2016-05-13 17:12:59] j8 : you make something on the the volatility itself, from the nonlinear return. but i usually make more on the increase in implied volatility
[2016-05-13 17:13:24] j8 : yes it settles on a 2 hour average of the index price
[2016-05-13 17:14:01] testacc : what does high IV mean for futures?
[2016-05-13 17:14:06] testacc : that people expect volatility?
[2016-05-13 17:14:26] Blargwaffle : They expect movement extremes.
[2016-05-13 17:14:37] testacc : so if IV is high, you want to go short?
[2016-05-13 17:14:45] Blargwaffle : Not exactly.
[2016-05-13 17:14:47] testacc : also, is IV correlated to premiums?
[2016-05-13 17:14:52] Blargwaffle : IV is, yes.
[2016-05-13 17:14:59] testacc : high IV = high premiums?
[2016-05-13 17:15:03] j8 : for the quanto futures yes
[2016-05-13 17:15:16] testacc : j8 short quanto?
[2016-05-13 17:15:42] j8 : i am long at the moment since they dropped a bunch the last couple days
[2016-05-13 17:15:56] testacc : where can you see IV?
[2016-05-13 17:16:22] j8 : you have to be super clever
[2016-05-13 17:16:37] podizzle3k : so no DAO/ETH here? i swear i seen it on mobile
[2016-05-13 17:16:38] Blargwaffle : IV would be easier to see if BTC had active options.
[2016-05-13 17:16:49] j8 : it's around 36% p.a. by my calcs
[2016-05-13 17:17:40] testacc : so there is like a formula to calculate IV?
[2016-05-13 17:17:43] j8 : you can see the 30 day historical volatility, it `.BVOL` in the indices table. 25.4% at the moment
[2016-05-13 17:18:03] j8 : yeah lemme find it
[2016-05-13 17:18:42] BitMEX_Wally : podizzle3k: We are quietly launching a `DAOETH` future tomorrow
[2016-05-13 17:18:52] BitMEX_Wally : We will market it next week
[2016-05-13 17:18:57] j8 : read this, it's by a guy joequant who used to be in the chat a lot: https://bitquant.wordpress.com/2015/04/14/magic-formula-for-xbt-and-xbu-futures/
[2016-05-13 17:18:59] testacc : what does DAO stand for?
[2016-05-13 17:19:35] j8 : it comes with some disclaimers, i haven't checked all the math but i think it makes sense
[2016-05-13 17:19:42] BitMEX_Wally : `decentralized autonomous organisation`
[2016-05-13 17:19:46] testacc : oh its like Chinese for me
[2016-05-13 17:19:51] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.bitmex.com/app/contract/DAOETH
[2016-05-13 17:20:08] testacc : Anyone know any good books to learn about how futures work?
[2016-05-13 17:20:16] j8 : if you solve for sigma i think it makes sense to interpret that as implied vol
[2016-05-13 17:21:14] testacc : what is sigma?
[2016-05-13 17:21:23] j8 : volatility
[2016-05-13 17:21:32] testacc : standard deviation of returns?
[2016-05-13 17:21:41] j8 : yup
[2016-05-13 17:21:53] j8 : or log(returns) usually
[2016-05-13 17:22:39] testacc : I'm not going to ask what log is. Need to take some math courses
[2016-05-13 17:22:39] tscha : testacc: google John hull
[2016-05-13 17:22:40] BitMEX_Wally : I think sigma is not the same as volatility because it is not path dependant
[2016-05-13 17:22:56] tscha : ok forget it then
[2016-05-13 17:22:59] BitMEX_Wally : It is more like a min/max range
[2016-05-13 17:23:31] Johnster : deposits are hold in multisig wallets?
[2016-05-13 17:23:46] BitMEX_Wally : Johnster: Yes
[2016-05-13 17:23:49] testacc : j8, so log acts as kind of a normalizer?
[2016-05-13 17:23:56] Blargwaffle : Hence the /^3/
[2016-05-13 17:24:08] Johnster : 2/3 sig?
[2016-05-13 17:24:10] BitMEX_Wally : Johnster: https://www.bitmex.com/app/security
[2016-05-13 17:24:22] BitMEX_Wally : Yes 2-of-3
[2016-05-13 17:24:31] j8 : it doesn't do a whole lot most of the time but it reduces extreme spikes @testacc
[2016-05-13 17:26:30] testacc : BitMEX_Wally: so sigma in futures is not the same as this sigma? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation
[2016-05-13 17:26:51] j8 : BitMEX_Wally: if you hedge your changing delta as you go, a long quanto / short inverse position performs basically like sigma^2, sigma being historical volatility. that's what i've worked out anyway. it's different from holding to expiry
[2016-05-13 17:27:16] BitMEX_Wally : testacc: Yes that is sigma, but I was saying I disagreed with the formula
[2016-05-13 17:27:52] j8 : the sigma you get from the formula is also less than the volatility you need to breakeven on the position
[2016-05-13 17:28:05] j8 : but that's because you profit like sigma^2
[2016-05-13 17:28:32] BitMEX_Wally : I was thinking about not hedging the changing delta, then the premium required for XBT is sqrt of the maximum expected move of spot
[2016-05-13 17:28:38] testacc : j8, you profit sigma*sigma on Quanto?
[2016-05-13 17:28:49] BitMEX_Wally : Sorry, I mean square
[2016-05-13 17:29:06] BitMEX_Wally : So if spot might move +/- 10% then the premium is 1%
[2016-05-13 17:29:30] BitMEX_Wally : But volatility of 10% means that 66% of the time a premium of 1% is enough, but not the rest of the time
[2016-05-13 17:29:37] BitMEX_Wally : (assuming log normal returns)
[2016-05-13 17:30:09] sleger : shit, at least two other people understand quantos... :(((
[2016-05-13 17:30:31] j8 : long quanto, short inverse: you pay the difference in premiums, you receive sigma^2
[2016-05-13 17:30:31] testacc : I guess this is why the platform isn't riddled with degen gamblers
[2016-05-13 17:31:41] testacc : j8: you get sigma squared on any move or up or down move?
[2016-05-13 17:32:17] j8 : yes, this is in the scenario where you have equal positions and adjust them to be equal on a regular basis
[2016-05-13 17:32:40] testacc : oh, so you need to constantly rebalance then
[2016-05-13 17:32:42] testacc : hmm
[2016-05-13 17:33:10] j8 : quantos are worth more btc at a higher price. inverse are worth less btc.
[2016-05-13 17:33:58] testacc : j8, do you have a bot that does that?
[2016-05-13 17:34:53] testacc : rebalance that is
[2016-05-13 17:35:08] j8 : not really, i do have bots on june and september but i mostly manage my position manually
[2016-05-13 17:35:40] j8 : and use this all stuff as a guide to if it's underpriced or overpriced
[2016-05-13 17:36:09] testacc : I saw a market making bot on GitHub, could that be used rebalance without loss in fees/slippage?
[2016-05-13 17:36:24] testacc : https://github.com/BitMEX/market-maker\
[2016-05-13 17:36:28] testacc : https://github.com/BitMEX/market-maker *
[2016-05-13 17:37:18] j8 : you might use that as a starting point, and yeah you can probably get better executions with a bot
[2016-05-13 17:41:21] testacc : j8: Thanks for helping me out, this is pretty interesting stuff
[2016-05-13 17:41:26] j8 : no problem
[2016-05-13 17:42:02] j8 : it is interesting, it's what i liked about bitmex in the first place. you used to be able to trade historical volatility futures directly
[2016-05-13 17:42:20] testacc : what happened to those? no volume?
[2016-05-13 17:42:35] j8 : yeah, it was really hard to get liquidity on it
[2016-05-13 17:43:09] j8 : there wasn't much liquidity in general on bitmex back then though
[2016-05-13 17:43:12] testacc : maybe in a few years when market matures, and more sophisticated traders like yourself join, they will come back
[2016-05-13 17:43:46] BitMEX_Wally : Once we have options it will be easier to hedge a volatility product
[2016-05-13 17:44:07] BitMEX_Wally : Plus the BVOL index could then be based on implied vol rather than backwards looking realised vol
[2016-05-13 17:44:26] j8 : that would be a lot better.
[2016-05-13 17:56:17] samad3 : hi
[2016-05-13 17:56:57] BitMEX_Sam : Hi samad3
[2016-05-13 17:57:11] samad3 : just a quick question....
[2016-05-13 17:57:49] samad3 : if you close a eth short early before expiry... what are the penalties....fees etc
[2016-05-13 18:00:11] samad3 : BitMEX_Sam: can you give me an idea about this?
[2016-05-13 18:01:16] sleger : there is no expiry on eth
[2016-05-13 18:01:46] samad3 : doesnt it expire at 1pm?
[2016-05-13 18:02:18] sleger : there is no expiry on eth.
[2016-05-13 18:02:46] samad3 : sleger: ok thanks
[2016-05-13 18:03:04] samad3 : so you can close your position at any time?
[2016-05-13 18:04:26] BitMEX_Sam : samad3: Yeah - you just trade out of the position.
[2016-05-13 18:04:32] BitMEX_Sam : If you were long, sell the contracts; if you were short, buy back in.
[2016-05-13 18:05:12] samad3 : ok
[2016-05-13 18:05:29] samad3 : still learning
[2016-05-13 18:05:58] BitMEX_Sam : :+1: Feel free to ask for help if you need it.
[2016-05-13 18:06:02] samad3 : so you dont need to close market order to exit a position?
[2016-05-13 18:06:22] samad3 : just open a long... if you are short etc?
[2016-05-13 18:07:15] sleger : etc = ethercoin ?
[2016-05-13 18:07:23] BitMEX_Sam : Right. You only have one position on BitMEX, long or short - and if you, say, buy 100, but sell 50, you are long 50
[2016-05-13 18:07:37] BitMEX_Sam : You don't have to use a 'Close' order at all, those are just provided for convenience.
[2016-05-13 18:08:12] samad3 : BitMEX_Sam: ok thanks understood
[2016-05-13 18:08:32] samad3 : thanks for your help guys
[2016-05-13 18:10:41] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, of course.
[2016-05-13 20:06:45] zanza : how is everyone liking the new XBT swap?
[2016-05-13 20:07:23] habibi : zanza: i like how people compare number of contracts to old one like it would be 1=1
[2016-05-13 20:07:32] habibi : 1 to 1 *
[2016-05-13 20:07:59] zanza : so, peoople haven't adjusted yet?
[2016-05-13 20:16:12] BitMEX_Sam : I think some of the bots still need to adjust their quantities - new contracts are roughly half the old size
[2016-05-13 20:31:24] micmix : BitMEX_Sam: could you show realized PNL since last rebalance in position table, maybe on hover? lifetime PNL not very useful for perpetual swap
[2016-05-13 20:55:21] rapidtrades : how about a per trade pnl bitmex? is that too much to ask?
[2016-05-13 21:13:42] BitMEX_Greg : micmix: I've buzzed Sam about it, he's AFK currently
[2016-05-13 21:13:56] micmix : thanks Greg
[2016-05-13 21:14:34] BitMEX_Greg : rapidtrades: I'll discuss it with the rest of the guys. How would you like to see it though? E.g. you long 1000 contracts as one "trade" or your current position until you close it?
[2016-05-13 21:16:02] rapidtrades : well i long 1000c then i close em...thats 1 trade...it should incllude all costs/rebates and rollover in the total (altho keeping them in seperate columns would be helpful)
[2016-05-13 21:19:02] BitMEX_Greg : So lets say you put on 1000, then you sell 500, then you put on another 800, then you close the remaining 1300. Would you want to see the 500 closed as 1 trade and then the 1300 as another trade? It can just start to get a bit tricky as you can imagine
[2016-05-13 21:20:19] rapidtrades : it can, but most of my trades are in/out same size
[2016-05-13 21:20:32] rapidtrades : so in 90% of cases it would be simple, 1in 1 out
[2016-05-13 21:21:20] BitMEX_Greg : Sure in those circumstances it could be simple, for other traders who have strategies / market making it gets a bit more difficult and the numbers wouldn't necessary make sense
[2016-05-13 21:21:36] micmix : it doesn't have to be complicated. each trade affects your realized PNL, based on position entry price, trade price and size
[2016-05-13 21:21:55] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Greg: i only care about me tho
[2016-05-13 21:24:03] BitMEX_Greg : haha, i like the honesty
[2016-05-13 21:24:48] sleger : just do FIFO logic that's super easy to code, and works for rapidtrades case, even if only him cares about it
[2016-05-13 21:25:34] rapidtrades : yea fifo would work
[2016-05-13 21:25:47] BitMEX_Greg : I used to trade on several exchanges, and I did go through a phase of recording all trades etc. However I found it easier just snapping all my positions each day, marked to where the exchanges where pricing and then compared Day on Day
[2016-05-13 21:29:44] rapidtrades : no just do fifo like sleger said...ur already recording all the needed data, problem is i have to use the calc and add/subtract all the numbers
[2016-05-13 21:29:47] rapidtrades : should be easy fix
[2016-05-13 21:32:13] BitMEX_Greg : OT, but check out BTC-E.. damn
[2016-05-13 21:32:36] BitMEX_Greg : oh hold on.. something wrong with crypto.. was showing me it dumped to 441.
[2016-05-13 21:33:06] BitMEX_Greg : rapidtrades: Sure I'll talk to the guys about it
[2016-05-13 21:45:21] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 177 @ 0.02254
[2016-05-13 21:48:51] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 500 @ 0.02241
[2016-05-13 22:34:32] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Greg: damit greg u almost gave me a heart attack
[2016-05-13 23:01:28] BitMEX_Greg : Yeah weird chart, as soon as I refreshed it disappeared.
[2016-05-13 23:13:19] podizzle3k : wow people scared to buy ETH tonight
[2016-05-13 23:13:27] podizzle3k : here
[2016-05-13 23:13:57] podizzle3k : last price consistently under mark price
[2016-05-13 23:14:37] podizzle3k : tons of asks under mark price so weird
[2016-05-13 23:15:35] habibi : asks are above m price
[2016-05-13 23:15:49] podizzle3k : i have asks at 229 and mark at 231
[2016-05-13 23:16:00] habibi : ah eth, right
[2016-05-13 23:16:13] podizzle3k : i guess its indicative of a bearish sentiment?
[2016-05-13 23:16:42] habibi : kinda, mm got too much long so he is playing that way as way
[2016-05-13 23:17:03] podizzle3k : yeah i didnt think of that
[2016-05-13 23:31:02] j8 : omg the swap is diverging, the sky is falling
[2016-05-13 23:33:32] j8 : just wait til it gets to -1.5%, you don't have to close your longs lower than that, better to let them liquidate
[2016-05-13 23:35:33] podizzle3k : yeah good thinking there
[2016-05-13 23:36:59] rapidtrades : place feels like a ghost town after they axes so many instruments
[2016-05-13 23:37:41] j8 : rapidtrades: wanna pump the quarterlies with me
[2016-05-13 23:38:16] rapidtrades : nope this heavily long, can't add
[2016-05-13 23:38:55] j8 : uh oh, long like everyone else eh
[2016-05-13 23:45:41] TraderStefan : I like the new perpetual swaps, very innovative
[2016-05-13 23:50:27] habibi : i like how it doesnt care about the spot prices :)
[2016-05-13 23:57:02] j8 : TraderStefan: hey dude, haven't seen ya around in a while
[2016-05-13 23:57:32] j8 : oh wait do i have you confused with someone else...
[2016-05-13 23:57:50] TraderStefan : yeah there's a few of us Stefans
[2016-05-13 23:58:04] j8 : you're not the random walk botting guy
[2016-05-13 23:58:31] j8 : either way, welcome back :)
[2016-05-13 23:58:44] TraderStefan : nah, not that guy, thanks though
[2016-05-14 00:08:48] TraderStefan : imo the only thing bitmex needs to overtake okcoin futures is a lower fee. Perhaps 0.03% taker and 0.01% maker
[2016-05-14 00:09:54] j8 : i'm with ya on that
[2016-05-14 00:10:15] TraderStefan : i'm no expert but seems like with increased volume it could pay for itself
[2016-05-14 00:21:43] micmix : j8: plz don't pump quarterlies, I'm not long enough yet
[2016-05-14 00:24:31] j8 : only joking, but in all seriousness, waste no time on that :)
[2016-05-14 00:26:10] micmix : I missed the sell off, had all my bots turned off
[2016-05-14 00:40:44] j8 : XBTM16 was trading just $6 above okc quarterly for a bit. i missed it as well. still cheap for 6 weeks i think
[2016-05-14 01:12:06] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 36 @ 0.02280
[2016-05-14 04:37:06] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 80 @ 0.02237
[2016-05-14 04:38:21] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 70 @ 0.02236
[2016-05-14 05:20:09] Bauer : im sorry but markets here are quite skinny
[2016-05-14 05:20:17] Bauer : pure gambling
[2016-05-14 05:20:32] Bauer : basically
[2016-05-14 05:20:45] Bauer : bratva++++
[2016-05-14 05:20:52] Bauer : solnevtskaya
[2016-05-14 05:23:00] Bauer : Also. the Mobile site hasnt been owrking for me
[2016-05-14 05:23:10] Bauer : for at least 12hy
[2016-05-14 05:23:31] Bauer : is there a refund possibility
[2016-05-14 05:23:35] Bauer : '?
[2016-05-14 05:24:06] Bauer : havent had possibility to acces with mobile
[2016-05-14 05:24:17] Bauer : lost a lot off money
[2016-05-14 05:24:24] Bauer : basically
[2016-05-14 05:25:35] Bauer : can i have at least 150+€ since your saite doesnt work with mobile
[2016-05-14 05:26:32] Bauer : i could have transfered my my funds elsewhere but... you dont work
[2016-05-14 05:28:24] Bauer : hackers and crackers to you to make things faster yes?
[2016-05-14 05:28:38] Bauer : where is suppor?
[2016-05-14 05:28:50] Bauer : support?
[2016-05-14 06:02:38] BitMEX_Wally : Bauer: Withdrawals are processed at 13:00 UTC which is in 11 hours time
[2016-05-14 06:33:31] rapidtrades : its in 9 hrs
[2016-05-14 06:39:15] BitMEX_Wally : Sorry, my bad. In 6 hours and 20 minutes.
[2016-05-14 06:40:25] rapidtrades : lol i got it wrong too
[2016-05-14 06:40:35] rapidtrades : f*ck utc
[2016-05-14 07:00:21] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 17 @ 0.02232
[2016-05-14 07:01:51] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 100 @ 0.02227
[2016-05-14 07:03:21] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 23 @ 0.02217
[2016-05-14 07:05:36] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 50 @ 0.02205
[2016-05-14 07:05:36] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 800 @ 0.02204
[2016-05-14 07:56:01] sq : do u guys intend to maintain the 1mth forwards?
[2016-05-14 07:56:14] sq : ie the 24jun n 30sep
[2016-05-14 07:56:23] sq : going forward
[2016-05-14 07:56:36] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 15 @ 0.02156
[2016-05-14 07:59:15] BitMEX_Wally : They will stay until expiry at least
[2016-05-14 07:59:52] sq : any plans after?
[2016-05-14 08:00:36] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 50 @ 0.02146
[2016-05-14 08:00:36] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 250 @ 0.02135
[2016-05-14 08:00:39] BitMEX_Wally : No plans yet
[2016-05-14 08:01:39] sq : ok tks
[2016-05-14 08:10:52] sq : m i notified every wk if i were to absorb losses ?
[2016-05-14 08:11:06] sq : is it viewab on my account?
[2016-05-14 08:11:32] sq : ie if my withheld profits were used to offset system loss, where would i find the details?
[2016-05-14 08:17:17] sq : also, where do u get the $ to fund the insurance fund? tks
[2016-05-14 08:18:55] BitMEX_Wally : sq: If there was system loss and there was DPE then the adjustment is published here: https://www.bitmex.com/app/settlementHistory
[2016-05-14 08:19:18] sq : how do i check my individual contribution if there were?
[2016-05-14 08:19:36] sq : i m interested to know more about this, before i deploy more capital here
[2016-05-14 08:20:24] BitMEX_Wally : When the contract is settled or rebalanced, your profit is adjusted before hitting your wallet
[2016-05-14 08:20:45] BitMEX_Wally : You can see the wallet transactions here: https://www.bitmex.com/app/wallet
[2016-05-14 08:21:24] BitMEX_Wally : So if the DPE rate that week was 10% and you had a CashRebalance transaction of 0.90 XBT then your contribution was 0.10 XBT
[2016-05-14 08:21:50] sq : ic tks
[2016-05-14 08:22:01] sq : so far, there has been no instances?
[2016-05-14 08:22:07] BitMEX_Wally : Not for months
[2016-05-14 08:22:15] BitMEX_Wally : I think the last DPE was December
[2016-05-14 08:22:26] sq : ic
[2016-05-14 08:22:35] BitMEX_Wally : Regarding the insurance fund, when a position is liquidated it is taken over by the system and closed out, any margin remaining is added to the insurance fund
[2016-05-14 08:22:53] sq : also, it will only adjust from my profits and not the base capital, from my understanding?
[2016-05-14 08:22:58] BitMEX_Wally : Correct
[2016-05-14 08:23:10] BitMEX_Wally : DPE only applies to net profits that week
[2016-05-14 08:23:22] sq : Regarding the insurance fund, when a position is liquidated it is taken over by the system and closed out, any margin remaining is added to the insurance fund
[2016-05-14 08:23:29] sq : why would there be margin remaining?
[2016-05-14 08:23:44] sq : apologies, not clear on this
[2016-05-14 08:24:17] BitMEX_Wally : Each contact has a maintenance margin requirement, for XBTUSD this is 0.50%
[2016-05-14 08:24:30] BitMEX_Wally : A position in XBTUSD is liquidated when the margin remaining drops below 0.50%
[2016-05-14 08:24:35] BitMEX_Wally : So this 0.50% is used to close out the position
[2016-05-14 08:25:23] BitMEX_Wally : So if you open a position in XBTUSD at 25x (for example) this allocates 4% initial margin. The maintenance margin is 0.50% which means that after a 3.5% loss you are liquidated
[2016-05-14 08:26:26] sq : but if there were no default event, then the margin is returned?
[2016-05-14 08:27:16] BitMEX_Wally : No, liquidation costs 0.50%
[2016-05-14 08:27:25] sq : ic.
[2016-05-14 08:27:34] BitMEX_Wally : You can set a Stop order and manage risk yourself
[2016-05-14 08:27:50] sq : what bout on settlement/maturity of contract
[2016-05-14 08:27:53] sq : how is the margin dealt w
[2016-05-14 08:28:05] migz : i got liquidated a biit, but transaction didnt happen in recent trades. Where did it go? O_O
[2016-05-14 08:28:28] BitMEX_Wally : migz: Have a look in Trade History: https://www.bitmex.com/app/tradeHistory
[2016-05-14 08:28:48] BitMEX_Wally : sq: When a contract settles the position is closed at the settlement price.
[2016-05-14 08:29:02] sq : what are the costs?
[2016-05-14 08:29:12] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.bitmex.com/app/fees
[2016-05-14 08:29:38] sq : it will be a taker fee?
[2016-05-14 08:29:39] migz : BitMEX_Wally: paid by settlement price but is not recorded in trading history?
[2016-05-14 08:30:06] BitMEX_Wally : sq: It will be Settlement Fee
[2016-05-14 08:30:30] migz : i mean recent trades (XBTUSD)
[2016-05-14 08:31:36] sq : tks
[2016-05-14 08:32:03] BitMEX_Wally : migz: Your position was taken over at 08:00:36 UTC and then closed out over the next 5 minutes
[2016-05-14 08:33:22] migz : I know that. So it is not autobuy, but will be taken and be sold in the next 5 minutes. genius
[2016-05-14 08:38:08] sq : @BitMEX_Wally one last qn. so if my position is closed either before or at settlement and not liquidated, the maintenance margin i pledged will then be returned to me?
[2016-05-14 08:38:21] BitMEX_Wally : sq: Correct
[2016-05-14 08:38:33] sq : ie only if a liquidation is forced on me, the maintenance margin is taken as a penalty
[2016-05-14 08:38:39] sq : tks
[2016-05-14 08:38:41] BitMEX_Wally : Yep
[2016-05-14 08:38:47] sq : great
[2016-05-14 08:56:37] rapidtrades : greaaat
[2016-05-14 08:58:43] germanjew : Is bitmex going to continue with the quarterly XBTUSD futures seeing that you now have a perpetual swap?
[2016-05-14 09:02:36] rapidtrades : nope these are the last two
[2016-05-14 09:03:10] rapidtrades : arthur set the bar at 500 btc per day, so its not going to happen
[2016-05-14 09:05:06] germanjew : mmm thats a shame
[2016-05-14 09:08:10] chromaticcr1 : I guess Arthur should deal with Factom contract first... neither open value or vol over prev 24h has 1XBT
[2016-05-14 09:18:17] habibi : factom/china 50 both are well played here
[2016-05-14 09:31:44] chromaticcr1 : *Honorable Mentions* We should have a tab with this name here
[2016-05-14 11:03:11] rapidtrades : bitcoin introduces 1 new trading instrument every week
[2016-05-14 11:03:30] rapidtrades : ...and kills off two others :)
[2016-05-14 11:55:30] stevelim : How does funding works? If I am short XBTUSD, How do I get paid? When do I get paid? I see 0.069% per day.
[2016-05-14 11:59:45] chromaticcr1 : Yes indeed, everyday at funding time (GMT1200nn), if you have a short position, you pay the funding rate. The funding rate could change day by day according to the funding rate at Bitfinex
[2016-05-14 12:02:20] chromaticcr1 : Have a look at https://blog.bitmex.com/ , plenty of great detailed information about the new contract, in case you dont get the "details of contract", or generally why and how things works.
[2016-05-14 12:07:39] rapidtrades : i almost got f*Cked again, forgot that 24h doesn't settle anymore
[2016-05-14 12:07:55] rapidtrades : no more free money :(
[2016-05-14 12:24:57] gorilla2 : hi, if i short ETH will i get paid or do i have to pay with the swap?
[2016-05-14 12:39:04] BitMEX_Wally : If you are short XBTUSD or short ETHXBT you will currently get paid
[2016-05-14 12:40:02] habibi : BitMEX_Wally: on eth right now funding is on minus, doesnt it mean u will pay on short?
[2016-05-14 12:42:15] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.bitmex.com/app/fees
[2016-05-14 12:42:24] j8 : the ETHXBT contract specs are a bit confusing on that, "longs will receive -0.1431%, and shorts will pay -0.1431%". and the fees page hasn't updated
[2016-05-14 12:43:24] BitMEX_Wally : We will fix the funding page
[2016-05-14 12:46:11] BitMEX_Wally : gorilla2: Sorry for the confusion, if you are short ETHXBT you will pay 0.14%
[2016-05-14 12:46:32] BitMEX_Wally : if you are long you will receive 0.14%
[2016-05-14 12:56:17] haxmb : BitMEX_Wally: what happened to your internet
[2016-05-14 12:56:26] haxmb : i got CONNECTION_TIMED_OUT
[2016-05-14 13:14:28] haxmb : guys tell me whats up with your site/API plz?
[2016-05-14 13:15:51] j8 : i had issues yesterday but not today @haxmb
[2016-05-14 13:16:48] haxmb : seems like i am getting banned or throttled
[2016-05-14 13:17:00] haxmb : API responses > 50 seconds
[2016-05-14 13:17:14] BitMEX_Wally : What timestamps did it happen at?
[2016-05-14 13:18:36] haxmb : the past 15-30 minutes
[2016-05-14 13:18:44] haxmb : very sketchy connections
[2016-05-14 13:19:07] haxmb : getting "disconnected from the bitmex live stream" stuff as well
[2016-05-14 13:19:09] chromaticcr1 : lol the funding rate went this high yesterday on polo
[2016-05-14 13:19:45] haxmb : aw shit am I paying 0.143% on my short?
[2016-05-14 13:21:09] BitMEX_Wally : The ETH borrow rate has shot up on Poloniex: https://www.bitmex.com/app/index/.ETHPON24H
[2016-05-14 13:21:33] chromaticcr1 : shorts will pay -0.1431% at 20:00 (12:00 UTC). Paying negative money = Getting positive money :)
[2016-05-14 13:23:37] j8 : wow tomorrow is gonna be much worse
[2016-05-14 13:23:41] chromaticcr1 : BitMEX_Wally: are you taking the rate of LOAN OFFERS on polo, non-VWAP-ed,only twaped
[2016-05-14 13:24:29] BitMEX_Wally : Depth weighted price 50000 ETH worth of loan offers
[2016-05-14 13:24:35] chromaticcr1 : awesome
[2016-05-14 13:24:38] BitMEX_Wally : TWAPed each minute for 24 hours
[2016-05-14 13:38:51] haxmb : chromaticcr1: why dont they display it
[2016-05-14 13:39:04] haxmb : pay abs(rate)
[2016-05-14 13:39:13] haxmb : instead of pay (rate) receive (rate)
[2016-05-14 13:39:26] chromaticcr1 : BitMEX_Wally: I guess that's on ur list ;)
[2016-05-14 13:39:41] BitMEX_Wally : Yes we will Math.abs it
[2016-05-14 13:40:16] BitMEX_Wally : and stop the fees page from being cached
[2016-05-14 14:59:07] migz : That DAO.
[2016-05-14 15:08:12] sq : anyone bought DAO?
[2016-05-14 16:12:50] sleger : gatecoin got hacked, sucks for them
[2016-05-14 16:20:41] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah. Terrible
[2016-05-14 16:50:06] rapidtrades : gatecoin of soon to be launched gao?
[2016-05-14 16:52:49] rapidtrades : *dao
[2016-05-14 19:05:16] thelostphotog : what happened with gatecoin and why's it matter for DAO? someone catch me up
[2016-05-14 19:24:06] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 30 @ 0.02207
[2016-05-14 19:28:41] podizzle3k : does it seem to anyone else that a string of bad things happening to ETH and DAO
[2016-05-14 19:28:54] podizzle3k : house of cards gonna crash soon
[2016-05-14 19:29:33] podizzle3k : peoples official wallet getting hacked, gatecoin gets hacked, dao curator steps down, the dao "accidentally" cannot calculate the price switch correctly
[2016-05-14 19:30:28] podizzle3k : oh yeah we can code an autonomous decentralized democracy, but counting to 7... thats pretty tough
[2016-05-14 19:33:39] mrp1nk : where is the 7d?
[2016-05-14 19:35:25] messiaen8844 : podizzle3k: enjoy the pumps&dumps, that's why we're here :).
[2016-05-14 19:35:50] podizzle3k : mrp1nk 24, 48 and 7d were replaced with perpetual swap
[2016-05-14 19:36:30] podizzle3k : messiaen8844: yea i have no allegiance to btc or eth but i do root for these coins to increase in value over time
[2016-05-14 19:36:33] mrp1nk : wtf, why this?
[2016-05-14 19:36:52] podizzle3k : mrp1nk so you dont have to worry about expiring contracts
[2016-05-14 19:37:38] podizzle3k : mrp1nk: its kind of annoying to learn the new system but i think once you get used to it you will like it
[2016-05-14 19:38:53] joequant : question. What's the easiest way of getting the last settlement price for an instrument?
[2016-05-14 19:40:48] mrp1nk : i thought this is a trading platform for futures
[2016-05-14 19:45:16] joequant : No plans to get rid of the long date futures right?
[2016-05-14 19:47:15] rapidtrades : theyre good as dead mate
[2016-05-14 19:47:21] rapidtrades : plan accordingly
[2016-05-14 19:49:14] lockhedge : joequant: you can take ´settledPrice´from here https://www.bitmex.com/api/v1/instrument?symbol=XBT24H and change the symbol
[2016-05-14 19:59:56] joequant : Gotcha
[2016-05-14 20:00:59] Johnster : How do entries show up? One averaged position or separate positions? Is there a way to set this in the settings?
[2016-05-14 20:05:01] haxmb : where the DAO MM at
[2016-05-14 20:06:24] rapidtrades : poof
[2016-05-14 20:12:21] aethlios : Hello, if I don't have open position at 12:utc I don't pay or receive the funding rate, true?
[2016-05-14 20:13:59] arbitrage001 : aethlios: probably false
[2016-05-14 20:14:07] arbitrage001 : there is no free lunch in this world
[2016-05-14 20:14:34] aethlios : arbitrage001: I think open positions pay each other the swap fee.
[2016-05-14 20:14:51] arbitrage001 : finex calculates by the hour
[2016-05-14 20:14:58] arbitrage001 : here, probably something similar
[2016-05-14 20:14:58] BitMEX_Sam : aethlios: That's true - it's paid only once per day at 12 UTC
[2016-05-14 20:15:30] BitMEX_Sam : https://www.bitmex.com/app/swapsGuide#funding-timestamp
[2016-05-14 20:15:43] arbitrage001 : sorry, misread the uestion
[2016-05-14 20:15:51] arbitrage001 : question
[2016-05-14 20:16:01] BitMEX_Sam : Johnster: As for positions, you always have only a singular position in an instrument
[2016-05-14 20:16:27] aethlios : BitMEX_Sam: Hi Sam, thanks!
[2016-05-14 21:54:39] rapidtrades : which of these 3 is most important and why
[2016-05-14 21:55:23] rapidtrades : 1.edge/system 2. money management/risk control 3. diversification/portfolio construction
[2016-05-14 21:56:59] subjective : DAO has nothing on order
[2016-05-14 22:06:35] ram : holy shit
[2016-05-14 22:06:42] ram : there is no liqudation price in DAO?
[2016-05-14 22:06:43] ram : ALL IN
[2016-05-14 22:11:43] endhouse : эй
[2016-05-14 22:11:59] endhouse : кто по русски говорит
[2016-05-14 22:12:43] endhouse : DAO price what?
[2016-05-14 22:15:49] ram : DAO going X100
[2016-05-14 22:17:08] ram : DAO IT NOW
[2016-05-14 22:17:35] endhouse : fake
[2016-05-14 22:17:56] endhouse : x10 max
[2016-05-14 22:18:11] ram : x5 At least
[2016-05-14 22:23:22] ram : BitMEX_Sam: why mark price is 0.01 in DAO
[2016-05-14 22:23:28] ram : it should be 0.01201
[2016-05-14 22:24:06] BitMEX_Sam : ram: It's set to the underlying asset's price until it is actually tradeable on exchanges, at which point it will be set to the exchange price
[2016-05-14 22:24:37] BitMEX_Sam : There is not enough liquidity to viably set it to ImpactMidPrice, a single actor could easily cause liquidations
[2016-05-14 22:25:06] ram : BitMEX_Sam: so if I'm buying DAO here at 0.012 I'm automatically at loss?
[2016-05-14 22:25:22] BitMEX_Sam : No, your position has an indicative loss, but that is different than an actual one
[2016-05-14 22:25:35] BitMEX_Sam : The same rules apply as anywhere - if you buy at 0.012 but sell at 0.013 you've made money
[2016-05-14 22:25:54] BitMEX_Sam : But for the purposes of automatic liquidation, the mark price is 0.010.
[2016-05-14 22:26:06] ram : thanks
[2016-05-14 22:27:41] habibi : its the first dao market?
[2016-05-14 22:27:54] habibi : i mean, any spot market?
[2016-05-14 22:32:32] BitMEX_Sam : habibi: There is no spot market yet
[2016-05-14 22:32:46] BitMEX_Sam : We expect there will be many at launch
[2016-05-14 22:33:37] habibi : there is basically no option for dao to go under 0.0100, as long as there is option to burn dao tokens and receive eth back
[2016-05-14 22:34:33] BitMEX_Sam : Seems so. However there is some complication in that plan
[2016-05-14 22:34:43] habibi : what u mean?
[2016-05-14 22:34:49] BitMEX_Sam : Appears there is a long waiting period that many users weren't aware of
[2016-05-14 22:35:05] habibi : u mean presale period? or sth more?
[2016-05-14 22:35:20] BitMEX_Sam : I haven't had time to review the DAO's code, but I am not 100% sure that this burn is actually possible in the way users expect
[2016-05-14 22:35:32] BitMEX_Sam : No, the issue I've seen so far is that actually initiating the burn takes 45+ days
[2016-05-14 22:35:40] BitMEX_Sam : If that went unnoticed, what else has
[2016-05-14 22:36:33] ram : time to buy the fucking dip I guess
[2016-05-14 22:36:36] habibi : ah agree, if u would ever check, let us know :)
[2016-05-14 22:37:54] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah of course.
[2016-05-14 22:56:00] ram : how the market value of DAO has been setted
[2016-05-14 22:56:15] ram : by the DAO protocol, DAOETH price should be rising
[2016-05-14 22:56:18] ram : in these 14 days
[2016-05-14 22:56:23] BitMEX_Sam : Simply based on the ICO price for now. It's not tradeable on any market today
[2016-05-14 22:56:26] BitMEX_Sam : Yes, it will rise
[2016-05-14 22:58:20] ram : BitMEX_Sam: so basically by the last day
[2016-05-14 22:58:27] ram : this should be 00.015
[2016-05-14 22:58:33] ram : 0.015
[2016-05-14 22:58:37] ram : right?
[2016-05-14 22:58:46] BitMEX_Sam : Right
[2016-05-14 23:06:11] ram : BitMEX_Sam: will it be above 0.015 after that period?
[2016-05-14 23:06:22] BitMEX_Sam : That's up to the market to decide.
[2016-05-14 23:06:33] ram : BitMEX_Sam: yup I guess
[2016-05-14 23:07:05] ram : BitMEX_Sam: so you are saying 0.015 is garaunteed?
[2016-05-14 23:07:42] BitMEX_Sam : Nothing is guaranteed, but assuming there are no major mishaps in the structure I would say it's likely
[2016-05-14 23:07:55] BitMEX_Sam : Of course, nobody can sell it yet - so it's not a fair price
[2016-05-14 23:09:21] thelostphotog : keep in mind nobody is even trading DAO here
[2016-05-14 23:09:28] thelostphotog : all BTC contracts
[2016-05-14 23:09:29] ram : thelostphotog: I do
[2016-05-14 23:09:43] BitMEX_Sam : Right, it's DAOETH quantoed into XBT
[2016-05-14 23:09:43] thelostphotog : no i mean you can't deposit DAO here and dump it, it's a futures contract
[2016-05-14 23:10:02] thelostphotog : this could be 0 and the real dao price has a different price
[2016-05-14 23:10:15] thelostphotog : so really there is no guarantee of 0.015 here
[2016-05-14 23:11:19] ram : thelostphotog: basic math say 0.015
[2016-05-14 23:11:25] ram : 1.5 eth=100 dao
[2016-05-14 23:11:29] ram : in last day
[2016-05-14 23:12:13] thelostphotog : on the dao hub
[2016-05-14 23:12:17] thelostphotog : but not here
[2016-05-14 23:12:31] ram : thelostphotog: it's the same
[2016-05-14 23:12:42] ram : why do u think price was set at 0.01 at first
[2016-05-14 23:13:19] thelostphotog : "The DAOETH futures contract, will expire on 24 June 2016 based on the Gatecoin DAO/ETH exchange rate."
[2016-05-14 23:13:27] thelostphotog : it all matters what the price is at gatecoin
[2016-05-14 23:13:51] ram : thelostphotog: not here
[2016-05-14 23:13:56] ram : Expiry is in a month
[2016-05-14 23:14:12] thelostphotog : so what's that sentence mean from the help page then?
[2016-05-14 23:14:17] thelostphotog : https://www.bitmex.com/app/seriesGuide/DAO
[2016-05-14 23:43:07] micmix : BitMEX_Sam: 45 days to get ETH back from DAO is correct, and the process is quite complicated. I think at most 5% of people who bought DAO will be able to do it.
[2016-05-15 00:16:35] aethlios : This dao contract is the DAO Hub?? or the digixdao?? Better write dao hub, many dao's out there.
[2016-05-15 00:19:47] aethlios : BitMEX_Sam: Sam could you add a future for Lisk also?? Goes live probably 24 May.
[2016-05-15 00:24:32] ggwp : aethlios: TheDAO
[2016-05-15 00:25:03] aethlios : ggwp: daohub.org??
[2016-05-15 00:25:33] ggwp : yes
[2016-05-15 00:59:23] Balooks : Hi, everybody..
[2016-05-15 00:59:33] ggwp : noone's here
[2016-05-15 00:59:34] Balooks : I have a question...
[2016-05-15 00:59:42] ggwp : ask away
[2016-05-15 01:00:01] ggwp : I probably don't know the answer though
[2016-05-15 01:00:32] BitMEX_Sam : I'm here - go for it
[2016-05-15 01:00:46] Balooks : I want to know how the process of data mining to increase my balance in Bitcoins.
[2016-05-15 01:02:45] BitMEX_Sam : I'm not sure I understand the question.
[2016-05-15 01:02:49] BitMEX_Sam : Are you asking about Bitcoin mining?
[2016-05-15 01:02:58] Balooks : Yes.
[2016-05-15 01:03:27] BitMEX_Sam : This isn't really the place to ask - there are thousands of articles throughout the web that explain it in detail
[2016-05-15 01:04:03] Balooks : Ok. Tks. I'll looking for. Best Regards.
[2016-05-15 01:04:46] Mangalica : search "reddit bitcoin mining" for example
[2016-05-15 01:05:15] Mangalica : or bitcointalk
[2016-05-15 01:05:39] Balooks : Tks. Mangalica.
[2016-05-15 01:25:38] podizzle3k : anyone here? sam?
[2016-05-15 01:26:05] podizzle3k : i need help
[2016-05-15 01:26:59] BitMEX_Wally : podizzle3k: Hello
[2016-05-15 01:27:06] podizzle3k : oh hey!
[2016-05-15 01:27:08] podizzle3k : I want to know how the process of data mining to increase my balance in Bitcoins.
[2016-05-15 01:27:28] BitMEX_Wally : Hahah
[2016-05-15 01:27:34] podizzle3k : wuahhaah
[2016-05-15 01:27:55] podizzle3k : mangina my friend
[2016-05-15 01:29:07] podizzle3k : Mangalica: your name means domestic pig in hungarian?
[2016-05-15 01:29:31] Mangalica : it's a breed of pig
[2016-05-15 01:29:33] podizzle3k : i just googled it, it has wool like a hseep
[2016-05-15 01:29:34] podizzle3k : sheep
[2016-05-15 01:29:51] podizzle3k : never knew there was a wooly pig
[2016-05-15 01:30:26] Mangalica : they come in three versions: blonde, swallow-bellied (brown) and red
[2016-05-15 01:30:32] BitMEX_Wally : Oops, I looked up mangina on urban dictionary
[2016-05-15 01:32:26] podizzle3k : ive heard of the bearded lady but that is something entirely else
[2016-05-15 01:33:49] Mangalica : we have some weird animals here
[2016-05-15 01:35:14] Mangalica : http://prestigepuli.net/images/gallery_pictures_images/viva_0372.jpg dog
[2016-05-15 01:35:46] ggwp : ^malware
[2016-05-15 01:35:54] ggwp : ;)
[2016-05-15 01:36:02] Mangalica : https://i.ytimg.com/vi/QpYkmj7JOas/hqdefault.jpg sheep
[2016-05-15 01:36:28] podizzle3k : haha nice mop
[2016-05-15 01:36:36] Mangalica : https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4022/5080920213_381fb26a86_b.jpg cows
[2016-05-15 01:36:37] Mangalica : etc