This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
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[2016-05-13 03:06:55] BitMEX_Arthur : and even if you take 7.5bps is way cheaper than trading spot on margin
[2016-05-13 03:06:57] Blargwaffle : Guess you'll never offer options... hah.
[2016-05-13 03:07:11] BitMEX_Arthur : Blargwaffle: TBH we are 3-5 years from options
[2016-05-13 03:07:27] BitMEX_Arthur : Maybe if XBTUSD is doing 1mm XBT per day in volume we could think about it sooner
[2016-05-13 03:07:43] Blargwaffle : Coinut was kind of fun, but the volume was lacking.
[2016-05-13 03:07:44] BitMEX_Arthur : Just building the UI would be a nightmare
[2016-05-13 03:11:11] Blargwaffle : Short XBTUSD and long XBTMYY to capture the USD interest like on Bitfinex? Or does something break with the quanto?
[2016-05-13 03:11:35] BitMEX_Arthur : Blargwaffle: It's simpler than that
[2016-05-13 03:11:51] BitMEX_Arthur : assume USD rates > XBT rates, if you short XBTUSD you will get paid USDr - XBTr each day
[2016-05-13 03:12:14] BitMEX_Arthur : to hedge your Bitcoin price risk, buy say $10,000 worth of Bitcoin, and sell 10,000 XBTUSD
[2016-05-13 03:12:18] BitMEX_Arthur : and just sit there
[2016-05-13 03:12:32] BitMEX_Arthur : you will get your interest income each day automatically through the XBTUSD swap
[2016-05-13 03:18:07] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 9 @ 0.02294
[2016-05-13 03:18:53] aethlios : BitMEX_Arthur: Bitfinex or the swap now give a 20% yearly return, basically it is a bad deal. Since btc is in a bullish long term view better hold btc in cold storage, than risk to collect 20% in a year having your capital in any btc exchange and having the counterparty risk the exchange to default.
[2016-05-13 03:20:18] BitMEX_Wally : You can buy $10,000 Bitcoin and keep it in cold storage
[2016-05-13 03:20:33] BitMEX_Wally : Then transfer $100 Bitcoin to BitMEX and short XBTUSD with 100x leverage
[2016-05-13 03:20:50] BitMEX_Wally : Then sit there earning 20% per year
[2016-05-13 03:21:08] BitMEX_Arthur : :thumbsup:
[2016-05-13 03:21:31] aethlios : BitMEX_Wally: for how many hours?? if btc goes 10 dollars up what happens to my position??
[2016-05-13 03:22:07] BitMEX_Wally : Ok fine, put 5% margin on BitMEX. The point is that you can reduce your counterparty risk from 100% to 5% of your Bitcoin
[2016-05-13 03:23:51] aethlios : BitMEX_Wally: What I mean is money are made trading volatility in btc, not earning interest. Interest in btc exchanges is basically a counterparty risk premium.
[2016-05-13 03:25:01] BitMEX_Wally : Right, but if you an use BitMEX to earn the Bitfinex counterparty risk premium without actually being exposed to that counterparty risk, then you can make money on interest
[2016-05-13 03:27:23] rentchev : BitMEX_Wally: If I only deposit $100 and short XBTUSD am I not going to get liquidated if XBT goes up?
[2016-05-13 03:28:29] aethlios : rentchev: 2 dollars up and you are liquidated
[2016-05-13 03:28:52] rentchev : but my $10000 of bitcoin is now worth more dollars
[2016-05-13 03:29:15] rentchev : so basically this is a kind of protection of my $10k position in bitcoin
[2016-05-13 03:29:47] rentchev : in case XBT goes down I will be making money on BitMEX
[2016-05-13 03:30:05] aethlios : BitMEX_Wally: I agree if I want to hedge my cold storage btc position, I will prefer bitmex to short using a 20% collateral and earn interest for the hall cold storage position. I want use bitfinex.
[2016-05-13 03:32:12] aethlios : rentchev: if btc goes up 2 usd your btcs worth 10.100, but lost 100 from short, so you still have 10.000 dollar value. It's like having sold to the price before the 2 usd increase
[2016-05-13 03:33:36] lockhedge : BitMEX_Wally: do you think a swap to insure against DPE would be possible/priceable to give traders (hedgers) an option for guaranteed profits?
[2016-05-13 03:34:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 55 @ 0.02298
[2016-05-13 03:37:27] aethlios : My fear about swap is how it will work in a highly bullish senario, when btc went 500, 24H premium was 45 usd, so because swap never settles ho will be crazy enough to short in a huge pump? all short positions will be getting margin called creating a large premium above spot.
[2016-05-13 03:41:00] BitMEX_Wally : Part of the reason for the large basis was because it was quanto and market makers don't like being short USD gamma on something bullish
[2016-05-13 03:41:12] BitMEX_Wally : XBTUSD is far more attractive to market makers so they will arb it in line with spot
[2016-05-13 03:42:35] BitMEX_Wally : Maybe if you are on 1x leverage and have not traded during the DPE session, we will exempt that position from DPE. I will need to do some analysis to make sure the calculations work.
[2016-05-13 03:43:43] micmix : BitMEX_Wally: such DPE exemption would be really nice
[2016-05-13 03:51:26] lockhedge : yes, would be great. other way could be a priority access to the insurance fund for low leverage traders / hedgers
[2016-05-13 03:57:45] BitMEX_Wally : Yeah would have to be transparent
[2016-05-13 03:58:08] BitMEX_Wally : We would have to publish the open interest breakdown
[2016-05-13 03:58:21] BitMEX_Wally : 1000 XBT at 1x plus 9000 XBT at 1x
[2016-05-13 03:58:33] BitMEX_Wally : 1000 XBT at 1x plus 9000 XBT at 100x
[2016-05-13 03:59:13] BitMEX_Wally : So then you know the PNL on the 1000 XBT is exempt and can be worked out from the change in markPrice for that DPE session
[2016-05-13 04:00:19] lockhedge : wouldn't be a problem for users if you do it in the same pseudonymous way like for the leaderboard, i guess.
[2016-05-13 05:14:36] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 150 @ 0.02322
[2016-05-13 05:19:21] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 100 @ 0.02336
[2016-05-13 05:21:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 10 @ 0.02342
[2016-05-13 05:25:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 1650 @ 0.02357
[2016-05-13 05:25:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 125 @ 0.02357
[2016-05-13 05:25:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 1000 @ 0.02357
[2016-05-13 05:27:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 7 @ 0.02367
[2016-05-13 05:29:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 400 @ 0.02381
[2016-05-13 05:32:36] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 2 @ 0.02389 :punch: :whale:
[2016-05-13 05:52:27] dorothy490 : XBT48 removed?
[2016-05-13 05:59:04] chromaticcr1 : Yes, tonight we will be getting perpetual contract for Bitcoin
[2016-05-13 06:00:07] chromaticcr1 : XBTUSD, with funding rate refrence from Bitfinex, you should received an email about the launch of XBTUSD
[2016-05-13 06:30:36] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 1500 @ 452.66
[2016-05-13 06:49:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 18 @ 0.02383
[2016-05-13 06:49:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 260 @ 0.02381
[2016-05-13 07:00:31] PatioCrasher : Hell Yeah
[2016-05-13 07:01:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 60 @ 0.02417
[2016-05-13 07:02:36] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 10 @ 0.02422
[2016-05-13 07:02:36] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 150 @ 0.02421
[2016-05-13 07:04:15] PatioCrasher : Yes please.
[2016-05-13 07:04:41] PatioCrasher : Lemon Squeeeeeezie
[2016-05-13 07:13:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 1 @ 0.02427 :punch: :whale:
[2016-05-13 07:18:32] rapidtrades : good morning fellas
[2016-05-13 07:20:45] PatioCrasher : Morning
[2016-05-13 07:21:19] PatioCrasher : Been a few years for me but couldn't help taking advantage of this eth long here while this DAO is soaking up the sun.
[2016-05-13 07:21:21] PatioCrasher : :)
[2016-05-13 07:30:50] rapidtrades : alright
[2016-05-13 07:31:17] rapidtrades : be careful today tho
[2016-05-13 07:31:23] rapidtrades : its Friday the 13th :)
[2016-05-13 07:31:56] PatioCrasher : Im up 0.74BTC.. unrealized but yeah will start leveraging down my posiiton
[2016-05-13 07:32:32] PatioCrasher : I was down a 0.44 when I went to bed but fundamentals told me to stay in position .
[2016-05-13 07:37:34] rapidtrades : greaaat, fundametals
[2016-05-13 07:42:20] PatioCrasher : The UI is a lot better than last time I was here. Good job BITMex
[2016-05-13 07:42:54] rapidtrades : no it isn't
[2016-05-13 07:44:35] PatioCrasher : It is for me..
[2016-05-13 07:44:54] PatioCrasher : I find it easier now but I am no pro trader
[2016-05-13 08:17:27] BitMEX_Wally : We are launching a `DAOETH` future soon that will settle on the Gatecoin price on 24 June 2016. It pays out in Bitcoin at 1 ETH = 1 XBT so you can speculate using Bitcoin
[2016-05-13 08:18:27] PatioCrasher : wally is there a blog post on how it works for noobs?
[2016-05-13 08:52:53] BitMEX_Arthur : PatioCrasher: Yes it will be published when `DAOETH` goes live
[2016-05-13 08:53:13] rapidtrades : PatioCrasher: https://testnet.bitmex.com/
[2016-05-13 08:53:25] PatioCrasher : Ok thanks guys
[2016-05-13 08:59:02] sq : can i puill out XBT index from the API?
[2016-05-13 09:05:19] sq : also, i see in kaiko the index has cn, us, global
[2016-05-13 09:05:25] sq : which one do u use to calculate?
[2016-05-13 09:07:23] micmix : BitMEX_Wally: I see FCTXBT in the instrument table. Are you switching FCT to swap today?
[2016-05-13 09:07:41] BitMEX_Wally : micmix: Yes
[2016-05-13 09:07:54] micmix : ok, thanks!
[2016-05-13 09:08:10] BitMEX_Wally : sq: Yes you can query the `trade` endpoint for `.XBT`
[2016-05-13 09:08:18] BitMEX_Wally : Or you can get it from kaiko.com/bitmex
[2016-05-13 09:11:23] sq : thaks
[2016-05-13 10:00:56] j8 : unfortunately i don't think i'll be trading the swap the way it's specified. the DPE risk sounds extreme
[2016-05-13 10:07:53] BitMEX_Arthur : j8: How is that?
[2016-05-13 10:08:52] j8 : there is no weighted mid price marking right.. so when the market really starts moving the swap is bound to diverge from the mark price at least temporarily
[2016-05-13 10:09:18] BitMEX_Arthur : j8: The swap is marked to spot + funding
[2016-05-13 10:09:42] BitMEX_Arthur : If you trade at a price above or below the mark price you must fully fund it
[2016-05-13 10:10:03] BitMEX_Arthur : E.g. spot is $100, you want to trade at $105, the $5 premium you must pay in full, no leverage can be used
[2016-05-13 10:10:04] j8 : once the divergence is > maintenance margin, losing positions can then let themselves be liquidated and re-enter at a better price
[2016-05-13 10:10:13] rapidtrades : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg
[2016-05-13 10:10:40] BitMEX_Arthur : Sure you can do that, but you fully funded the divergence, so the other side will get paid that premium or discount
[2016-05-13 10:12:07] j8 : you might have entered at no divergence. now the market is strongly against you, and you are better off getting liquidated than exiting at the swap market price
[2016-05-13 10:12:23] BitMEX_Arthur : but that is always the case with DPE
[2016-05-13 10:12:24] BitMEX_Arthur : it's limited liability
[2016-05-13 10:12:26] j8 : but those liquidations are starting out behind the market
[2016-05-13 10:12:38] BitMEX_Arthur : but everything happens in real time
[2016-05-13 10:12:40] j8 : with mid price marking this isn't possible
[2016-05-13 10:13:44] j8 : if swap is 105 and spot+funding is 100, and i have a losing position, i can effectively exit at 100.5
[2016-05-13 10:14:47] j8 : this is the only mechanism that's supposed to tie the swap to spot, but really the market just breaks if it does diverge
[2016-05-13 10:15:05] BitMEX_Arthur : your pnl gets realised at the spot price
[2016-05-13 10:15:06] BitMEX_Arthur : not the futures price
[2016-05-13 10:15:10] BitMEX_Arthur : that's what keeps it anchored
[2016-05-13 10:15:51] BitMEX_Arthur : say i buy at 105, spot is 100, spot stays the same, future keeps rallying to 110, if i don't exit the position, i will owe 5 at rebalance
[2016-05-13 10:15:58] j8 : if you close out your position it's realised at the futures price
[2016-05-13 10:16:20] BitMEX_Arthur : right but the risk still remains that if you don't close out, you get realised at spot
[2016-05-13 10:17:01] j8 : yes, but if you can still close at whatever premium this makes up that loss
[2016-05-13 10:17:15] j8 : the only way to actually realize the position at spot is to let it liquidate
[2016-05-13 10:17:33] BitMEX_Arthur : but you have paid in full the 100-105 difference if you are long for example
[2016-05-13 10:17:41] BitMEX_Arthur : so ur liquidation price is 99.5
[2016-05-13 10:20:42] j8 : winning positions can't benefit from it, but losers can
[2016-05-13 10:22:13] BitMEX_Arthur : what do you mean
[2016-05-13 10:22:27] j8 : you enter short at 100, spot is 100. then spot goes to 105 and the swap goes to 110
[2016-05-13 10:23:03] BitMEX_Arthur : every friday you get realised at 105
[2016-05-13 10:23:22] BitMEX_Arthur : if someone wants to buy the swap above the mark price, they must pay in full
[2016-05-13 10:23:26] BitMEX_Arthur : it's not leveraged
[2016-05-13 10:23:39] BitMEX_Arthur : and you can't realise pnl at the swap price, only the spot price
[2016-05-13 10:24:18] BitMEX_Wally : You can't go long at 105 with 100x, the order is rejected with 'Executing at order price would lead to immediate liquidation'
[2016-05-13 10:24:26] BitMEX_Wally : You have to use Cross margin or reduce leverage
[2016-05-13 10:24:43] BitMEX_Wally : Basically you have to post 1% of 100 plus 5 so $6 in total
[2016-05-13 10:25:01] BitMEX_Wally : (going long at 105 when spot is 100)
[2016-05-13 10:29:00] j8 : ok so you get less leverage to go long, but the fact remains that if the swap trades at a premium, and the mark price is a couple dollars behind, by the time liquidations are triggered it will be too late
[2016-05-13 10:30:10] BitMEX_Arthur : How so in your scenario, you are assuming the swap price leads spot
[2016-05-13 10:30:24] j8 : that's the scenario
[2016-05-13 10:30:57] j8 : i need to be the devil's advocate, because you guys seem to assume that it will always track spot
[2016-05-13 10:31:23] BitMEX_Arthur : no i appreciate this conversation
[2016-05-13 10:31:30] j8 : if i'm gonna trade it, i need an idea of how closely it should track spot and on what timeframe
[2016-05-13 10:31:41] BitMEX_Arthur : well you get pnl realised each week
[2016-05-13 10:31:51] BitMEX_Arthur : and you pay interest based on the value of the swap using the spot price
[2016-05-13 10:32:07] BitMEX_Arthur : both performance and financing leg are based on the value using spot price
[2016-05-13 10:32:18] BitMEX_Arthur : and if you wish to trade at a price other than spot, you have to be fully funded
[2016-05-13 10:36:44] haxmb : BitMEX_Arthur: what date will de DAOETH launch?
[2016-05-13 10:36:49] haxmb : 14th or 15th of may? :)
[2016-05-13 10:37:00] j8 : when `XBT24H` launched it was marked to spot + fixed basis. it was a mess, it didn't really work until the mid price marking.. 0.5% is a small margin of error for clearing liquidations
[2016-05-13 10:37:26] BitMEX_Arthur : haxmb: No firm date, sometimes this weekend
[2016-05-13 10:37:31] haxmb : :'(
[2016-05-13 10:37:32] BitMEX_Arthur : We will announce once it goes live
[2016-05-13 10:37:38] haxmb : Why the secrecy?
[2016-05-13 10:37:48] haxmb : You not done getting yo longs on yaself? ;)
[2016-05-13 10:37:53] BitMEX_Arthur : Before Monday, because we don't want to steal thunder from `XBTUSD`
[2016-05-13 10:38:17] haxmb : ah well, understandable
[2016-05-13 10:38:24] haxmb : are you gonna send an email when it launches?
[2016-05-13 10:38:31] BitMEX_Arthur : haxmb: Yes
[2016-05-13 10:38:36] haxmb : otherwise imma have to stay behind computer all weekend
[2016-05-13 10:38:44] haxmb : cheers <3
[2016-05-13 10:39:22] BitMEX_Arthur : j8: That's why any premium or discount must be fully funded
[2016-05-13 10:39:26] BitMEX_Arthur : that isn't the case with a futures contract
[2016-05-13 10:39:45] BitMEX_Arthur : if XBTU16 trades at 1,000 and spot is at 100, you don't have to fund that 900 premium
[2016-05-13 10:39:52] BitMEX_Arthur : with `XBTUSD` you would have to
[2016-05-13 10:40:32] rapidtrades : wat
[2016-05-13 10:42:00] rapidtrades : that doesn't make sense to me
[2016-05-13 10:42:27] rapidtrades : this part : if XBTU16 trades at 1,000 and spot is at 100, you don't have to fund that 900 premium
[2016-05-13 10:42:49] j8 : it makes sense, when the mark price is 1000 and you buy at 1000
[2016-05-13 10:43:37] j8 : compared to when the mark price is 100 and you buy at 1000, you immediately have a big unrealised loss
[2016-05-13 10:45:52] BitMEX_Arthur : correct, and we make you pay for that unrealised loss with Bitcoin in full, such that if rebalancing happened immediately after the trade, you would not go bankrupt
[2016-05-13 10:51:01] j8 : so if i'm short and my liquidation price is 100.5, and the swap market is at 105, and spot+fundingBasis reaches 100.5, i get liquidated and the maintenance margin is enough to put a bid at 101, not 105. how is this not a problem?
[2016-05-13 10:54:10] BitMEX_Arthur : we don't let you put yourself in check
[2016-05-13 10:54:20] BitMEX_Arthur : simple example
[2016-05-13 10:54:24] BitMEX_Arthur : spot is 100
[2016-05-13 10:54:29] BitMEX_Arthur : you want to go long 100x
[2016-05-13 10:54:39] BitMEX_Arthur : you must post 1 as initial margin
[2016-05-13 10:54:50] BitMEX_Arthur : ok so now spot is 100, future is 105
[2016-05-13 10:54:54] BitMEX_Arthur : and you only have 1 bitcoin as margin
[2016-05-13 10:55:00] BitMEX_Arthur : your order gets rejected
[2016-05-13 10:55:07] BitMEX_Arthur : say you have 6 bitcoin as margin
[2016-05-13 10:55:12] BitMEX_Arthur : your order can go to market
[2016-05-13 10:55:26] BitMEX_Arthur : now you enter at 105, spot is at 100
[2016-05-13 10:55:31] BitMEX_Arthur : price doesn't change
[2016-05-13 10:55:36] BitMEX_Arthur : rebalance happens at 100
[2016-05-13 10:55:40] BitMEX_Arthur : you lose 5
[2016-05-13 10:55:49] BitMEX_Arthur : but you put up an extra 5 to cover for the basis
[2016-05-13 10:55:51] BitMEX_Arthur : so you are fine
[2016-05-13 10:56:01] BitMEX_Arthur : by fine i mean, no immediate liquidation or bankruptcy
[2016-05-13 10:58:11] j8 : i'm still talking about exiting a losing position.. maybe you entered short at 95, then isolated at 100 when the mark price went to 100 and the swap was at 105
[2016-05-13 10:58:33] j8 : you get a liquidation price of 100.5 and a bankruptcy price of 101
[2016-05-13 10:59:06] j8 : but there are no sellers until 105
[2016-05-13 11:00:33] BitMEX_Arthur : But that isn't solely a swap issue, same could happen on any DPE product
[2016-05-13 11:00:44] BitMEX_Arthur : If you get liquidated and no one is around to trade, it will always sit there
[2016-05-13 11:00:47] BitMEX_Arthur : no matter the marking method
[2016-05-13 11:01:52] j8 : but when it's marked to the swap or future, it's far more likely there is someone around to trade
[2016-05-13 11:03:36] BitMEX_Arthur : Nothing but empirical evidence is going to vindicate either of our positions, we will observe trader behaviour and adapt
[2016-05-13 11:10:11] j8 : it's a totally new kind of product, with unknown risks, it'll be a while and probably need some changes before i'm comfortable taking positions on it. if i just wanted to go long or short with high leverage it would probably be fine, but if i want to arb it or hedge other positions there's way too much at stake
[2016-05-13 11:13:56] j8 : it's easy to imagine reasons the swap would diverge by more than half a percent and it seems things just fall apart if that happens
[2016-05-13 11:15:47] BitMEX_Arthur : j8: The market can also gap 0.5% higher in a one minute candle as well, but people still trade highly leveraged products
[2016-05-13 11:15:51] BitMEX_Arthur : or lower
[2016-05-13 11:16:16] BitMEX_Arthur : I totally agree this is definitely a speculative trading instrument, but that's what the market wants
[2016-05-13 11:17:12] j8 : yeah but those highly leveraged products are able to clear because they are marked to market, not to some other market
[2016-05-13 11:17:39] haxmb : if the market wants to get REKT, let em have it
[2016-05-13 11:17:45] haxmb : I dont see the problem
[2016-05-13 11:18:31] BitMEX_Arthur : Basis risk is a real thing if you mark to a market that is vastly higher than the spot price, when or if basis corrects sharply that's when you get DPE
[2016-05-13 11:18:46] BitMEX_Arthur : now most of that basis is driven by gamma
[2016-05-13 11:18:54] BitMEX_Arthur : which has been eliminated in XBTUSD
[2016-05-13 11:19:42] j8 : disagree, it was more driven by leverage on the daily
[2016-05-13 11:19:46] BitMEX_Arthur : and basis is also driven by interest rate differentials which is taken care of by the daily funding
[2016-05-13 11:21:26] BitMEX_Arthur : mm who are short gamma will raise prices aggressively in volatile situations
[2016-05-13 11:21:27] j8 : any systematic difference between the funding basis and what people are willing to pay would seem to lead to increasing divergence though.
[2016-05-13 11:22:05] BitMEX_Arthur : but u don't get leverage on the difference between spot and swap price, so i believe that will mitigate your fears
[2016-05-13 11:26:10] j8 : it helps, i would need to do some numbers to think about how much it helps
[2016-05-13 11:34:03] j8 : for the record i thought 100x was a bad idea at the time, but it's worked out fine
[2016-05-13 11:42:09] habibi : BitMEX_Wally: rebalance for eth in 4 days?
[2016-05-13 11:45:21] rapidtrades : ethbtc settlement in 15 mins?
[2016-05-13 11:45:43] sleger : whats the name of new instrument from api point of view, XBT24H is replaced by ?
[2016-05-13 11:46:36] sleger : thanks for the advance notice....
[2016-05-13 11:46:45] Teddy76 : XBTUSD ?
[2016-05-13 11:48:16] BitMEX_Arthur : `XBTUSD`
[2016-05-13 11:49:59] rapidtrades : wait a min...isn't there a cal period for the ETH swap
[2016-05-13 11:50:10] sleger : going from "we'll take our time to make it right before removing quantos on xbt" to giving barely 24 h notice gives the impression that the bunch of kids is not the clients, but the people running the exchange @BitMEX_Arthur
[2016-05-13 11:50:37] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 200 @ 0.02364
[2016-05-13 11:50:49] rapidtrades : the mark just dropped 17 basis points
[2016-05-13 11:51:08] rapidtrades : don't we have a 2h calc period
[2016-05-13 11:51:10] habibi : rapidtrades: its rebalance, no settlement
[2016-05-13 11:51:26] rapidtrades : speak eng
[2016-05-13 11:52:50] j8 : rebalances use the instantaneous mark price
[2016-05-13 11:53:15] rapidtrades : well f great
[2016-05-13 11:53:18] rapidtrades : F*CK
[2016-05-13 12:00:58] BitMEX_Wally : `ETHXBT` and `LTCXBT` just rebalanced
[2016-05-13 12:01:07] BitMEX_Wally : The countdown in the ticker bar is wrong
[2016-05-13 12:01:37] habibi : fix rebalance countdown, day number is wrong
[2016-05-13 12:02:02] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Wally: so for the realised PnL on the swaps, it will just keep on ticking? or from friday to friday only
[2016-05-13 12:02:20] BitMEX_Wally : Yes
[2016-05-13 12:03:41] rapidtrades : why is it so hard to figure out if uve made money? now i gotta add up everything on a calc
[2016-05-13 12:04:09] BitMEX_Wally : There is a CashRebalance transaction in your wallet
[2016-05-13 12:04:13] BitMEX_Wally : If that is positive you made money this week
[2016-05-13 12:06:05] rapidtrades : why can't u do a simple PnL per order
[2016-05-13 12:06:13] tscha : trade history?
[2016-05-13 12:06:27] haxmb : symbol
[2016-05-13 12:06:30] rapidtrades : to include everything, comm and roll
[2016-05-13 12:06:31] haxmb : is now XBTUSD ?|
[2016-05-13 12:06:39] haxmb : instead of XBT24H ?
[2016-05-13 12:06:47] rapidtrades : yeah its no longer a quanto
[2016-05-13 12:06:50] tscha : haxmb: yeah... Surprise!!!!
[2016-05-13 12:06:53] BitMEX_Arthur : `XBTUSD` is 100x, and does not expire
[2016-05-13 12:07:11] haxmb : thanks for destroying my bots
[2016-05-13 12:07:13] haxmb : ffs
[2016-05-13 12:07:28] Rune : ded bots
[2016-05-13 12:07:51] rapidtrades : wtf....where were u? it was discussed here few days ago
[2016-05-13 12:08:03] rapidtrades : it was fairly sudden tbh
[2016-05-13 12:08:24] tscha : rapidtrades: less than 2 days
[2016-05-13 12:08:45] rapidtrades : like few days ago arthur was like....oh yeah BTC swap goes live this friday
[2016-05-13 12:09:27] tscha : BitMEX_Arthur: pls tell sam to put the perpetual swap on the very left side, where the daily was before
[2016-05-13 12:10:04] haxmb : rapidtrades: bitmex APIs just suddenly stop giving data
[2016-05-13 12:10:28] haxmb : im not gonna code a change in hardcoded data in my bot
[2016-05-13 12:11:20] BitMEX_Wally : tscha: Hit refresh
[2016-05-13 12:11:37] tscha : BitMEX_Wally: ty
[2016-05-13 12:12:06] tscha : enough js skills to switch those? :) :P
[2016-05-13 12:12:16] rapidtrades : i lost $5-6 on that eth fiasco
[2016-05-13 12:12:28] ggwp : rapidtrades: RIP
[2016-05-13 12:12:48] rapidtrades : i thought there was a calc
[2016-05-13 12:13:14] sleger : rapidtrades: 5 to 6 entire dollars wow...
[2016-05-13 12:13:39] Rune : lol 5 bucks
[2016-05-13 12:14:08] rapidtrades : yeah so? its a mistake...i lost over 250 this morning in fx didn't care cos it was part of the system
[2016-05-13 12:14:21] BitMEX_Wally : You have a system to lose money?
[2016-05-13 12:14:28] sleger : he has the best system
[2016-05-13 12:14:43] sleger : because it gives him more than 24 hours notice before it loses money
[2016-05-13 12:15:26] rapidtrades : no....my point is losing money doesn't phase me much if its part of the plan
[2016-05-13 12:15:42] sleger : you got plans to lose money ?
[2016-05-13 12:15:58] rapidtrades : oh i lose money on most days bud
[2016-05-13 12:16:35] tscha : don't worry, one time you will win big
[2016-05-13 12:16:44] tscha : just keep on trading
[2016-05-13 12:16:50] sleger : or buying lottery tickets
[2016-05-13 12:16:53] Rune : I lot a ton on eth
[2016-05-13 12:17:07] rapidtrades : im up for the year don't worry everyone lol
[2016-05-13 12:17:31] rapidtrades : its just how i trade :)
[2016-05-13 12:18:50] tscha : yeah, you are just a wild trader rapid - not one of those boring math neckbeards... a real trader, who backtests by hand and doesn't give fukk about risks
[2016-05-13 12:19:49] Rune : thats how I trade
[2016-05-13 12:20:02] Rune : all in baby
[2016-05-13 12:20:11] Rune : no shitty math
[2016-05-13 12:20:17] rapidtrades : everything i do is risk defined...that's a large part of the reason why I never got big shorting quantos
[2016-05-13 12:20:29] rapidtrades : can't quantify that clawback risk
[2016-05-13 12:21:21] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 333 @ 0.02388
[2016-05-13 12:21:29] j8 : either you missed out, or i got lucky @rapidtrades
[2016-05-13 12:22:54] tscha : clawback actually reduces risk since it takes value from the extreme tails (high profit, high loss)
[2016-05-13 12:23:33] rapidtrades : shorters are much more likely to get stuck with the bill though
[2016-05-13 12:24:47] rapidtrades : i don't think we're ever had clawabcks when going up
[2016-05-13 12:32:31] rapidtrades : I've been doing this longer then most of you've been alive
[2016-05-13 12:32:44] rapidtrades : except sleger, he sounds like an old fart
[2016-05-13 12:57:52] Rune : how did someone buy all the way up to 457
[2016-05-13 12:57:55] Rune : what
[2016-05-13 13:05:55] sleger : " tscha: clawback actually reduces risk " tscha, 2016
[2016-05-13 13:08:07] sleger : dont even know where to start to explain how much that's ignorant
[2016-05-13 13:09:19] tscha : you know that the ability to recognize humor is correlated highly with intelligence?
[2016-05-13 13:10:41] sleger : i'm glad you agree with what i said now
[2016-05-13 13:27:47] laisee : slegers gotta slege, it seems
[2016-05-13 14:07:29] HowDoge : under stops why isnt it showing the price. just says market. started a few days ago
[2016-05-13 14:14:57] BitMEX_Wally : A Stop Market order has no limit price so it just says Market
[2016-05-13 14:15:16] BitMEX_Wally : if you submit a Stop Limit order it will show the limit price
[2016-05-13 14:17:20] guembesn : Same question here regarding the "stop market order"
[2016-05-13 14:17:35] BitMEX_Wally : What is the question?
[2016-05-13 14:18:17] guembesn : If I understood well, you choose the triggering price of the stop, and it execute at market price and with market fees when it reaches it ?
[2016-05-13 14:19:14] BitMEX_Wally : Correct
[2016-05-13 14:20:29] guembesn : So yeah, same problem , as Howdoge said, in "Stop" list, you just see "market", you don't know what was the price of your stop if you want to check it later.
[2016-05-13 14:20:50] guembesn : Or maybe I missed it ?
[2016-05-13 14:21:07] BitMEX_Wally : The price it executed at?
[2016-05-13 14:21:19] BitMEX_Wally : i see the problem, we will fix
[2016-05-13 14:22:24] guembesn : Exact, the triggering price of the stop doesn't appear
[2016-05-13 14:22:27] guembesn : Thanks :)
[2016-05-13 14:22:41] guembesn : What about this "Stop limit" order ?
[2016-05-13 14:23:01] guembesn : How does it work ?
[2016-05-13 14:23:31] BitMEX_Wally : It is a Limit order that triggers instead of a Marker order
[2016-05-13 14:24:42] BitMEX_Wally : If you are long you could set a Stop Limit order to sell with stop price of 440 and a limit price of 430. Then when it triggers it will sell down to 430 and no lower
[2016-05-13 14:26:36] BitMEX_Wally : guembesn: the triggering price of the stop is the stopPx. What you are missing is the executed price?
[2016-05-13 14:26:53] BitMEX_Wally : you can see the executed price in the Trade History:
[2016-05-13 14:26:55] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.bitmex.com/app/tradeHistory
[2016-05-13 14:27:13] BitMEX_Wally : We will update the Fills tab to include the execution price
[2016-05-13 14:27:21] guembesn : OK
[2016-05-13 14:28:06] guembesn : What if , in your example, there is not enough liquidity between the stop price and the limit price ?
[2016-05-13 14:28:50] BitMEX_Wally : Then the remaining quantity rests in the order book like a normal limit order
[2016-05-13 14:28:59] BitMEX_Wally : if the price comes back up it gets filled
[2016-05-13 14:29:08] BitMEX_Wally : if the price keeps falling then it does not get filled
[2016-05-13 14:29:44] guembesn : OK I see
[2016-05-13 14:29:56] guembesn : Thanks
[2016-05-13 14:36:33] HowDoge : @BitMEX_Wally @guembesn sorry was afk, thanks for looking into this. I used to be able to see the stop price I had entered and a few days ago it changed to indicating the type of stop. just confused a few of us I expect
[2016-05-13 14:36:49] HowDoge : if the stop price could be shown that would be grand
[2016-05-13 14:40:56] BitMEX_Sam : HowDoge: Looking into that now, will have an update for you very shortly
[2016-05-13 14:41:56] BitMEX_Wally : There is a column called "Stop Price"
[2016-05-13 14:42:08] BitMEX_Wally : on the Stops tab
[2016-05-13 14:42:41] HowDoge : http://prntscr.com/b3lc2x
[2016-05-13 14:43:39] BitMEX_Wally : Ahh, my apologies. I'm on my phone and it shows the Stop Price but not the Fill Price
[2016-05-13 14:43:59] HowDoge : :)
[2016-05-13 14:44:16] HowDoge : dont worry im used to feeling retarded ;P
[2016-05-13 14:45:03] BitMEX_Wally : We'll make sure both Stop Price and Fill Price are shown on both desktop and mobile versions
[2016-05-13 14:53:34] BitMEX_Sam : HowDoge: Please refresh, the issue is fixed
[2016-05-13 15:09:22] Johnster : Can the full account balance/equity be used as collateral for positions?
[2016-05-13 15:09:56] BitMEX_Wally : Yes you can use the Leverage Selector to choose 'Cross'
[2016-05-13 15:10:21] Johnster : So you call it cross margin as well... ?
[2016-05-13 15:10:44] BitMEX_Sam : Yep.
[2016-05-13 15:11:11] BitMEX_Sam : It's cross & fixed margin, just like on other platforms. Only difference here is that we let you set it at any time.
[2016-05-13 15:11:22] Johnster : Sam... Perpetual Swap, it's more like a CFD instead of a futures contract. Do I get it right?
[2016-05-13 15:12:45] BitMEX_Wally : It is a swap but long vs short. We are the cental counterparty for moving pnl between winner and looser, but you are not trading against us
[2016-05-13 15:13:11] Blargwaffle : Tighter and looser!
[2016-05-13 15:13:36] BitMEX_Wally : So it is like a peer to peer CFD
[2016-05-13 15:14:07] Johnster : Hmmm... that sounds like a great product to deal with.
[2016-05-13 15:14:28] Johnster : Tight spreads?
[2016-05-13 15:14:38] BitMEX_Wally : Yes
[2016-05-13 15:14:59] Johnster : So what does a size of 1000 represent?
[2016-05-13 15:15:50] BitMEX_Sam : They're inverse contracts for US$1 of Bitcoin
[2016-05-13 15:16:45] Johnster : Elaborate pls.
[2016-05-13 15:17:09] BitMEX_Wally : 1000 contracts = 1000 USD
[2016-05-13 15:17:45] BitMEX_Wally : On Bitfinex you trade an amount of Bitcoin and get paid PNL in USD. On BitMEX you trade an mount of USD and get pain PNL in Bitcoin.
[2016-05-13 15:17:55] BitMEX_Wally : *paid
[2016-05-13 15:18:40] BitMEX_Wally : So if I buy 450 contracts of XBTUSD at $450 then that is 1 Bitcoin worth
[2016-05-13 15:18:59] BitMEX_Wally : If the price rises to $500 then my profit is 50 / 500 = 0.1 Bitcoin
[2016-05-13 15:20:28] Johnster : and if you're on 100x 10btc...
[2016-05-13 15:20:51] Johnster : So we can stay in coin the whole time?
[2016-05-13 15:20:54] BitMEX_Wally : The leverage does not change the size of your position, it just changes the amount of margin you need to put up
[2016-05-13 15:21:31] Johnster : This launched today?
[2016-05-13 15:21:43] BitMEX_Wally : All our products use Bitcoin as the margin, pnl, and settlement currency
[2016-05-13 15:22:17] BitMEX_Wally : `XBTUSD` launched today. We used to have a 100x future that expired every day
[2016-05-13 15:22:31] Johnster : I haven't checked out BitMex for a while... a few products are gone?
[2016-05-13 15:22:31] BitMEX_Wally : But people wanted to keep their positions open so we have launched this `XBTUSD` perpetual swap
[2016-05-13 15:22:51] Johnster : 100x every day can't be that populair...
[2016-05-13 15:23:10] BitMEX_Wally : Our 100x XBT24H future was the most popular product
[2016-05-13 15:23:25] BitMEX_Wally : 100x is just the maximum leverage, you can choose your own leverage
[2016-05-13 15:23:32] Johnster : That's why you cancelled it... :-)
[2016-05-13 15:23:45] Johnster : Ahummm improved it.
[2016-05-13 15:24:07] BitMEX_Wally : `XBTUSD` is the same as `XBT24H` but your position does not expire
[2016-05-13 15:24:18] Johnster : fees?
[2016-05-13 15:24:20] BitMEX_Wally : Same
[2016-05-13 15:24:29] Johnster : that is?
[2016-05-13 15:24:30] BitMEX_Wally : Except there is no settlement fee now
[2016-05-13 15:24:39] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.bitmex.com/app/fees
[2016-05-13 15:27:12] Johnster : Maker = opening position, taker closing a position?
[2016-05-13 15:27:35] Rdnkjdi : Where can I read on Ethereum perpetual swap? What is it? The old way of long / shorting went away ... sell still = shorting?
[2016-05-13 15:29:12] Rdnkjdi : ahh sweet got it
[2016-05-13 15:30:25] BitMEX_Sam : Johnster: It has to do with whether or not your order makes liquidity or takes it - i.e. if it sits in the book before executing, or executes on creation
[2016-05-13 15:30:38] BitMEX_Sam : Rdnkjdi: Yes, the fundamentals are essentially the same as before :)
[2016-05-13 15:31:57] Johnster : Wha is long/short funding
[2016-05-13 15:32:22] lockhedge : is there any reason why you moved away from Impact Mid Price as marking method?
[2016-05-13 15:32:25] BitMEX_Sam : The info is just below, see the `Daily Funding Fees` section and the link to the Swaps Guide
[2016-05-13 15:33:12] BitMEX_Wally : XBTUSD is not quanto, so there won't be as much basis
[2016-05-13 15:33:44] Rdnkjdi : Ok - stupid question - how do I edit my margin (Cross etc)? I'm not seeing it on the positions like I used to (Ethereum perpetual swap)
[2016-05-13 15:34:17] BitMEX_Wally : There is a leverage selector on the side bar on the left
[2016-05-13 15:35:17] BitMEX_Wally : Under 'Your Position: ETHXBT'
[2016-05-13 15:35:21] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 706 @ 0.02362
[2016-05-13 15:35:51] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 12 @ 0.02327
[2016-05-13 15:35:51] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 100 @ 0.02340
[2016-05-13 15:35:51] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 41 @ 0.02332
[2016-05-13 15:36:04] Rdnkjdi : arggg - I click it and it auto did orders for me!!!!
[2016-05-13 15:36:27] BitMEX_Wally : Changing the leverage does not submit orders
[2016-05-13 15:38:38] BitMEX_Wally : Rdnkjdi: It looks like you placed a limit order to buy ETHXBT, and then a few minutes later it got filled
[2016-05-13 15:38:44] BitMEX_Wally : This was nothing to do with you changing leverage
[2016-05-13 15:38:46] Rdnkjdi : Yes
[2016-05-13 15:38:50] Rdnkjdi : You are correct.
[2016-05-13 15:39:22] Rdnkjdi : I have .55 cross on margin with my current 400 Eth short. But there's .87 BTC balance in my wallet
[2016-05-13 15:40:06] BitMEX_Wally : The number shown is the amount locked into the position. With cross margin the whole balance is being used to increase the liquidation price
[2016-05-13 15:40:06] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 6000 @ 0.02300
[2016-05-13 15:40:10] Johnster : so cross is only available at 1x?
[2016-05-13 15:40:33] Rdnkjdi : BitMEX_Wally: Ok - that explains it
[2016-05-13 15:40:34] Rdnkjdi : Thank you
[2016-05-13 15:41:21] BitMEX_Wally : The way Cross works is that actually it puts the position into 25x and then if the position has any losses, it tops up the margin using your account balance
[2016-05-13 15:41:42] Rdnkjdi : BitMEX_Wally: Thank you
[2016-05-13 15:42:05] zanza : Whoa, nice perpetual!
[2016-05-13 15:42:34] lockhedge : BitMEX_Wally: in what intervals do you update the Fair Basis Calculation and the Funding Rate?
[2016-05-13 15:42:43] Johnster : and get liquidated at? 80%
[2016-05-13 15:43:13] BitMEX_Wally : The funding rate is updated every 24 hours, based on the previous 24 hours TWAP. And then it is charged 24 hours later
[2016-05-13 15:43:31] BitMEX_Wally : The fair basis rate is just the daily fundingRate * 365
[2016-05-13 15:44:04] BitMEX_Wally : So if the funding rate is 0.05% then at 12:01 the fair price is 0.05% above spot, and this decays throughout the day
[2016-05-13 15:44:20] haxmb : REKTerino
[2016-05-13 15:44:26] habibi : dpe so far
[2016-05-13 15:47:43] haxmb : nom nom
[2016-05-13 15:47:52] Johnster : Anyway... this product won't wreck you if you are in a losing position on settlement day... because there isn't a settlement. :-) One factor less to consider in trading.
[2016-05-13 15:47:53] migz : Ahhh, that is tasty.
[2016-05-13 15:48:12] haxmb : who grabbed that last part of 2270
[2016-05-13 15:48:25] habibi : take 1779 from it
[2016-05-13 15:48:28] habibi : took*
[2016-05-13 15:48:31] haxmb : damn you <3
[2016-05-13 15:48:49] Johnster : Anyway... this product won't wreck you if you are in a losing position on settlement day... because there isn't a settlement. ? One factor less to consider in trading. Correct?
[2016-05-13 15:49:24] BitMEX_Wally : Johnster: Correct, if you have the margin to keep the position open you can wait for the price to revert
[2016-05-13 15:49:25] haxmb : if you mean you can hold your losing position until it becomes profitable again (if ever) then yes
[2016-05-13 15:49:47] BitMEX_Wally : If you are short XBTUSD then you earn the funding rate
[2016-05-13 15:49:49] lockhedge : BitMEX_Wally: ok, thanks. congratulations for listing this innovative instrument. i'm just worrying about possible late liquidations when XBTUSD trades at a high premium above the mark price.
[2016-05-13 15:50:20] BitMEX_Wally : XBTUSD is unlikely to trade at a high premium because it is not-quanto, it is marked to spot, and it rebalances weekly
[2016-05-13 15:50:25] BitMEX_Wally : So market makers can just arb it against spot very easily
[2016-05-13 15:50:47] Johnster : Well I do have a trading strategy, and sometimes adding margin saved the day... many times to be honest.
[2016-05-13 15:50:53] Johnster : never wrecked me.
[2016-05-13 15:51:54] Johnster : Once I understand the fees, I might want to move all my assest here.
[2016-05-13 15:52:23] BitMEX_Wally : Johnster: Let us know if you have any questions, we're happy to help
[2016-05-13 15:53:22] Johnster : Is your teamspeak channel still open?
[2016-05-13 15:55:18] rapidtrades : 17:50 - Johnster: never wrecked me. there's always next time :)
[2016-05-13 15:56:07] Johnster : Honestly: NEVER wrecked me... never been margin called for over a year.
[2016-05-13 15:56:32] sq : where can i check the funding rate for the btcusd swap?
[2016-05-13 15:56:33] sq : tks
[2016-05-13 15:56:44] lockhedge : BitMEX_Wally: we will see if quanto or high leverage is the main driver for a premium here. DPE makes arb strategies very risky when volatility is high.
[2016-05-13 15:57:00] BitMEX_Wally : sq: It is in the Contract Details widget
[2016-05-13 15:57:06] BitMEX_Wally : And on the fees page
[2016-05-13 15:57:10] Johnster : Bitmex_sam Is your teamspeak channel still open?
[2016-05-13 15:57:29] BitMEX_Wally : ts.bitmex.com
[2016-05-13 15:57:33] BitMEX_Arthur : lockhedge: Also a function of liquidity
[2016-05-13 15:57:50] sq : ic tks
[2016-05-13 15:57:55] BitMEX_Arthur : `XBTUSD` in only a few hours has better on screen liquidity than `XBT24H` ever did
[2016-05-13 15:57:58] Johnster : BitMEX_Wally: ts.bitmex.com still works it seems.
[2016-05-13 15:58:21] j8 : even if the swap is only 0.5% ahead of the mark price, that means no liquidations will get filled without a retrace or spending the insurance fund
[2016-05-13 15:58:29] Johnster : Let's promote teamspeak a bit more.
[2016-05-13 15:58:32] sq : do u intend to keep only 2 more tenors 24jun n 30 sep?
[2016-05-13 15:59:02] j8 : the contracts are half the size though @BitMEX_Arthur
[2016-05-13 15:59:44] lockhedge : BitMEX_Arthur: already noticed, very nice spread
[2016-05-13 16:01:26] ram : when withild profit is out in Ethereum
[2016-05-13 16:03:46] lockhedge : j8: yesterday you could buy/sell about 35000 contracts within a <1% spread, today it's more than 100000 contracts, top of the book is more competitive as well
[2016-05-13 16:04:46] j8 : right but 100,000 now is more or less the same notional as 50,000 yesterday
[2016-05-13 16:05:17] j8 : liquidity has been bad the last few weeks/months though.
[2016-05-13 16:06:00] j8 : the main MM used to quote 7000's and even 12500's
[2016-05-13 16:08:46] BitMEX_Wally : If the swap contract trades more than the maintenance margin above spot then we will look into using Impact Mid Price again
[2016-05-13 16:09:25] j8 : why not do it now? by that point it will be too late.
[2016-05-13 16:10:02] BitMEX_Wally : Because we want to rebalance at the spot price, and we cannot do that if it would cause liquidations
[2016-05-13 16:10:14] BitMEX_Wally : Rebalancing at the spot price is more important for keeping the swap in line
[2016-05-13 16:10:46] Johnster : Wally where is the 100x price averaged from?
[2016-05-13 16:10:59] Johnster : BitFInex and...
[2016-05-13 16:11:05] BitMEX_Sam : https://kaiko.com/bitmex
[2016-05-13 16:11:11] BitMEX_Wally : OKC and Bitstamp
[2016-05-13 16:11:23] Johnster : 3 markets
[2016-05-13 16:11:40] Johnster : or is CNY in the mix as well?
[2016-05-13 16:11:53] BitMEX_Wally : No
[2016-05-13 16:12:01] j8 : BitMEX_Wally: wouldn't changing the price marking after there's a premium cause liquidations also?
[2016-05-13 16:12:40] BitMEX_Wally : j8: No, because the premium would be 100% funded by grossOpenPremium
[2016-05-13 16:13:14] lockhedge : BitMEX_Wally: ok, makes sense. Rebalancing at the index price should stay, maybe even daily.
[2016-05-13 16:14:46] BitMEX_Wally : Johnster: We might launch an `XBTCNY` swap if there is Chinese demand
[2016-05-13 16:14:55] habibi : where u see that awsome opportunities on 24h once again?
[2016-05-13 16:14:56] j8 : if you change to mid price marking and the mark price jumps 2$, you will likely liquidate some people
[2016-05-13 16:15:37] BitMEX_Wally : j8: Yes, but as you say they should have been liquidated earlier if the swap is leading spot
[2016-05-13 16:15:57] Johnster : BitMEX_Wally: I don't care much what to trade against... as long there is some prediction possible and volatility...
[2016-05-13 16:16:39] j8 : i just think you should set rules that make sense in advance, instead of waiting for something bad to happen (which i see as inevitable actually)
[2016-05-13 16:21:57] j8 : the effectiveness of the liquidation engine on XBT24H had a lot to do with the mid price marking, i think.
[2016-05-13 16:26:14] ggwp : BitMEX_Wally: why has my withdrawal been cancelled?
[2016-05-13 16:27:06] BitMEX_Sam : ggwp: Did you click the confirmation link in the email?
[2016-05-13 16:28:38] ggwp : oh, this was my first withdrawal, didn't know I had to do that... I need to withdraw asap, is there still a possibility to do so before the weekend?
[2016-05-13 16:29:56] BitMEX_Wally : ggwp: Please re-request the withdrawal and confirm it
[2016-05-13 16:31:21] ggwp : done
[2016-05-13 16:31:59] BitMEX_Sam : We'll process a round now - glad you reached out
[2016-05-13 16:33:07] ggwp : thanks, I've noticed you guys very helpful and dedicated. Hope that brings more liquidity!
[2016-05-13 16:35:19] BitMEX_Sam : Broadcasting now
[2016-05-13 16:36:38] ggwp : recieved
[2016-05-13 16:36:54] BitMEX_Sam : :+1:
[2016-05-13 16:47:55] zanza : RIP XBU
[2016-05-13 16:48:46] rapidtrades : oh....they got rid of that too
[2016-05-13 16:50:09] lockhedge : j8: there are some risks with mid price marking: manipulation by a dominant market maker or spoofer, or an irrational price b/c of an empty order book. imo it's relatively save if you have 3-5 constantly quoting independent market makers and maybe a fall back to fair basis if liquidity is very thin (if there's not enough competition between market makers)
[2016-05-13 16:53:07] j8 : yes, it's not perfect. one way or another i don't see how you can expect liquidations to clear if the mark price is not closely following the market. "closely" relative to the maintenance margin
[2016-05-13 16:59:40] testacc : quick question. If I have 1BTC, and I go short BTC swap (lets say I short 10BTC), so I earn interest on my 1BTC or the leveraged position 10BTC?
[2016-05-13 17:00:41] BitMEX_Greg : testacc: You will earn the interest on the position you entered with in the swap, the 10BTC position in your example.
[2016-05-13 17:00:53] testacc : wow
[2016-05-13 17:00:55] testacc : that's pretty awesome
[2016-05-13 17:01:58] testacc : so I could buy 10 physical coins on polo, lend 9 of them out there, and then short 10 here with remaining one, and earn 2x interest?
[2016-05-13 17:02:15] Blargwaffle : I think selling the dated ones provides more in premium than in interest, that can change if Bitfinex has a run on BTC margin pool.
[2016-05-13 17:02:43] testacc : dated ones? futures?
[2016-05-13 17:02:52] Blargwaffle : Yes, notice the premiums.
[2016-05-13 17:02:59] testacc : I don't understand futures
[2016-05-13 17:03:10] testacc : yet
[2016-05-13 17:03:17] Blargwaffle : Then... perhaps stick with the swap.
[2016-05-13 17:03:32] testacc : like how do you know if premium is fair price?
[2016-05-13 17:03:39] testacc : how do you know premium isn't going to rise
[2016-05-13 17:03:56] testacc : I guess if you don't know, you have to hold till settlement, right?