This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
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[2016-05-13 02:39:32] BitMEX_Arthur : around longer
[2016-05-13 02:43:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 378 @ 0.02254
[2016-05-13 02:43:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 265 @ 0.02256
[2016-05-13 02:43:41] rapidtrades : well there u have it folks, they're offcially on the way out
[2016-05-13 02:46:37] micmix : well you guys listed LTC and it has 3 coins per day volume. I'm not sure why you want to remove long-dated quantos, doesn't really cost you anything to keep them. if you are afraid that they will distract traders from XBTUSD, you can hide them in basic interface
[2016-05-13 02:51:39] rapidtrades : ^^^ guy has a point but by setting unrealistic standard they've already made up their mind. Time to give up this fight and vote with your money imo.
[2016-05-13 02:51:40] micmix : AFAIK people like sleger had 10k-30k positions on quarterly. Of course quarterlies don't trade that much everyday, it's a long-term play.
[2016-05-13 02:51:52] aethlios : having 4 long term contracts 3,6,9,12 months allows many strategies. A trader can go long 12month and short twice quantity the 3 month, based on perspectives.
[2016-05-13 02:52:29] aethlios : Better stop factom china A50 and create a complete btc market.
[2016-05-13 02:52:53] rapidtrades : like I've said before, the only thing bitmex will be useful for me in the future is extra leverage if i want to trade at bitfinex prices
[2016-05-13 02:53:14] rapidtrades : that may not be true for everyone of course, we'll see
[2016-05-13 02:54:50] aethlios : Also many strategies can work between a long term quanto and the swap. you can use the swap as a hedge (never expires) to go long or short in the long run and trade the premium or discount.
[2016-05-13 02:56:09] BitMEX_Arthur : Our mm will all be focusing on XBTUSD as that is where all the volume will be, what happens when these quanto futures have $15 dollar wide markets
[2016-05-13 02:57:51] BitMEX_Arthur : We also have finite UI development resources, if XBTUSD is doing crazy volume, devoting resources to successfully hiding the quantos is a hard sell
[2016-05-13 02:58:03] micmix : are you saying that the main mm will pull out tomorrow? that's a problem of course
[2016-05-13 02:58:24] BitMEX_Arthur : No I'm saying if XBTUSD goes well, they will switch to putting more capital there
[2016-05-13 02:58:29] BitMEX_Arthur : over time
[2016-05-13 02:59:09] BitMEX_Arthur : a market of just arb guys and passive mm is not a healthy market
[2016-05-13 02:59:34] BitMEX_Arthur : non of you guys seem willing to step up and provide liquidity, but if you are prove it and we will keep them around
[2016-05-13 03:00:22] micmix : I agree it's a small market but it might be better than no market at all. I guess we'll see what happens when XBTUSD is listed
[2016-05-13 03:00:51] BitMEX_Arthur : well it's up to you guys to keep it around, we tried making a platform for just sophisticated traders and it was a ghost town
[2016-05-13 03:01:25] BitMEX_Arthur : at the end of the day, you need active retail flow in order to make it worth your while to trade, if XBTUSD brings that to the market it is a win-win for everyone
[2016-05-13 03:01:54] BitMEX_Arthur : once the knowledge base and liquidity in the Bitcoin derivs space increases across the board, we can start bringing back more fun products
[2016-05-13 03:02:13] ayy_lmao : you guys will get alot of volume on DAO this weekend
[2016-05-13 03:02:19] ayy_lmao : dis gon be gud
[2016-05-13 03:03:07] BitMEX_Arthur : And yes we have some products on here, that trade way less than quanto's but sometimes we put stuff up just to have it, having two types of Bitcoin products confuses 99% of people
[2016-05-13 03:03:23] BitMEX_Arthur : We have tried our best to educate, but people want to trade rather than read about the finer points of derivatives trading
[2016-05-13 03:05:03] aethlios : I think a big problem with btc now is trading spot is VERY expensive, 0.4%-0.5% per round and with 1% daily movement (very low volatility) noone is trading nowdays. And if spot doesn't move, futures don't move.
[2016-05-13 03:05:49] micmix : I understand, maybe one day when bitcoiners grow up lol @BitMEX_Arthur
[2016-05-13 03:06:36] BitMEX_Arthur : aethlios: That's why we offer 100x
[2016-05-13 03:06:40] BitMEX_Arthur : and you can get paid to trade
[2016-05-13 03:06:55] BitMEX_Arthur : and even if you take 7.5bps is way cheaper than trading spot on margin
[2016-05-13 03:06:57] Blargwaffle : Guess you'll never offer options... hah.
[2016-05-13 03:07:11] BitMEX_Arthur : Blargwaffle: TBH we are 3-5 years from options
[2016-05-13 03:07:27] BitMEX_Arthur : Maybe if XBTUSD is doing 1mm XBT per day in volume we could think about it sooner
[2016-05-13 03:07:43] Blargwaffle : Coinut was kind of fun, but the volume was lacking.
[2016-05-13 03:07:44] BitMEX_Arthur : Just building the UI would be a nightmare
[2016-05-13 03:11:11] Blargwaffle : Short XBTUSD and long XBTMYY to capture the USD interest like on Bitfinex? Or does something break with the quanto?
[2016-05-13 03:11:35] BitMEX_Arthur : Blargwaffle: It's simpler than that
[2016-05-13 03:11:51] BitMEX_Arthur : assume USD rates > XBT rates, if you short XBTUSD you will get paid USDr - XBTr each day
[2016-05-13 03:12:14] BitMEX_Arthur : to hedge your Bitcoin price risk, buy say $10,000 worth of Bitcoin, and sell 10,000 XBTUSD
[2016-05-13 03:12:18] BitMEX_Arthur : and just sit there
[2016-05-13 03:12:32] BitMEX_Arthur : you will get your interest income each day automatically through the XBTUSD swap
[2016-05-13 03:18:07] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 9 @ 0.02294
[2016-05-13 03:18:53] aethlios : BitMEX_Arthur: Bitfinex or the swap now give a 20% yearly return, basically it is a bad deal. Since btc is in a bullish long term view better hold btc in cold storage, than risk to collect 20% in a year having your capital in any btc exchange and having the counterparty risk the exchange to default.
[2016-05-13 03:20:18] BitMEX_Wally : You can buy $10,000 Bitcoin and keep it in cold storage
[2016-05-13 03:20:33] BitMEX_Wally : Then transfer $100 Bitcoin to BitMEX and short XBTUSD with 100x leverage
[2016-05-13 03:20:50] BitMEX_Wally : Then sit there earning 20% per year
[2016-05-13 03:21:08] BitMEX_Arthur : :thumbsup:
[2016-05-13 03:21:31] aethlios : BitMEX_Wally: for how many hours?? if btc goes 10 dollars up what happens to my position??
[2016-05-13 03:22:07] BitMEX_Wally : Ok fine, put 5% margin on BitMEX. The point is that you can reduce your counterparty risk from 100% to 5% of your Bitcoin
[2016-05-13 03:23:51] aethlios : BitMEX_Wally: What I mean is money are made trading volatility in btc, not earning interest. Interest in btc exchanges is basically a counterparty risk premium.
[2016-05-13 03:25:01] BitMEX_Wally : Right, but if you an use BitMEX to earn the Bitfinex counterparty risk premium without actually being exposed to that counterparty risk, then you can make money on interest
[2016-05-13 03:27:23] rentchev : BitMEX_Wally: If I only deposit $100 and short XBTUSD am I not going to get liquidated if XBT goes up?
[2016-05-13 03:28:29] aethlios : rentchev: 2 dollars up and you are liquidated
[2016-05-13 03:28:52] rentchev : but my $10000 of bitcoin is now worth more dollars
[2016-05-13 03:29:15] rentchev : so basically this is a kind of protection of my $10k position in bitcoin
[2016-05-13 03:29:47] rentchev : in case XBT goes down I will be making money on BitMEX
[2016-05-13 03:30:05] aethlios : BitMEX_Wally: I agree if I want to hedge my cold storage btc position, I will prefer bitmex to short using a 20% collateral and earn interest for the hall cold storage position. I want use bitfinex.
[2016-05-13 03:32:12] aethlios : rentchev: if btc goes up 2 usd your btcs worth 10.100, but lost 100 from short, so you still have 10.000 dollar value. It's like having sold to the price before the 2 usd increase
[2016-05-13 03:33:36] lockhedge : BitMEX_Wally: do you think a swap to insure against DPE would be possible/priceable to give traders (hedgers) an option for guaranteed profits?
[2016-05-13 03:34:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 55 @ 0.02298
[2016-05-13 03:37:27] aethlios : My fear about swap is how it will work in a highly bullish senario, when btc went 500, 24H premium was 45 usd, so because swap never settles ho will be crazy enough to short in a huge pump? all short positions will be getting margin called creating a large premium above spot.
[2016-05-13 03:41:00] BitMEX_Wally : Part of the reason for the large basis was because it was quanto and market makers don't like being short USD gamma on something bullish
[2016-05-13 03:41:12] BitMEX_Wally : XBTUSD is far more attractive to market makers so they will arb it in line with spot
[2016-05-13 03:42:35] BitMEX_Wally : Maybe if you are on 1x leverage and have not traded during the DPE session, we will exempt that position from DPE. I will need to do some analysis to make sure the calculations work.
[2016-05-13 03:43:43] micmix : BitMEX_Wally: such DPE exemption would be really nice
[2016-05-13 03:51:26] lockhedge : yes, would be great. other way could be a priority access to the insurance fund for low leverage traders / hedgers
[2016-05-13 03:57:45] BitMEX_Wally : Yeah would have to be transparent
[2016-05-13 03:58:08] BitMEX_Wally : We would have to publish the open interest breakdown
[2016-05-13 03:58:21] BitMEX_Wally : 1000 XBT at 1x plus 9000 XBT at 1x
[2016-05-13 03:58:33] BitMEX_Wally : 1000 XBT at 1x plus 9000 XBT at 100x
[2016-05-13 03:59:13] BitMEX_Wally : So then you know the PNL on the 1000 XBT is exempt and can be worked out from the change in markPrice for that DPE session
[2016-05-13 04:00:19] lockhedge : wouldn't be a problem for users if you do it in the same pseudonymous way like for the leaderboard, i guess.
[2016-05-13 05:14:36] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 150 @ 0.02322
[2016-05-13 05:19:21] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 100 @ 0.02336
[2016-05-13 05:21:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 10 @ 0.02342
[2016-05-13 05:25:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 1650 @ 0.02357
[2016-05-13 05:25:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 125 @ 0.02357
[2016-05-13 05:25:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 1000 @ 0.02357
[2016-05-13 05:27:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 7 @ 0.02367
[2016-05-13 05:29:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 400 @ 0.02381
[2016-05-13 05:32:36] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 2 @ 0.02389 :punch: :whale:
[2016-05-13 05:52:27] dorothy490 : XBT48 removed?
[2016-05-13 05:59:04] chromaticcr1 : Yes, tonight we will be getting perpetual contract for Bitcoin
[2016-05-13 06:00:07] chromaticcr1 : XBTUSD, with funding rate refrence from Bitfinex, you should received an email about the launch of XBTUSD
[2016-05-13 06:30:36] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 1500 @ 452.66
[2016-05-13 06:49:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 18 @ 0.02383
[2016-05-13 06:49:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 260 @ 0.02381
[2016-05-13 07:00:31] PatioCrasher : Hell Yeah
[2016-05-13 07:01:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 60 @ 0.02417
[2016-05-13 07:02:36] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 10 @ 0.02422
[2016-05-13 07:02:36] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 150 @ 0.02421
[2016-05-13 07:04:15] PatioCrasher : Yes please.
[2016-05-13 07:04:41] PatioCrasher : Lemon Squeeeeeezie
[2016-05-13 07:13:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 1 @ 0.02427 :punch: :whale:
[2016-05-13 07:18:32] rapidtrades : good morning fellas
[2016-05-13 07:20:45] PatioCrasher : Morning
[2016-05-13 07:21:19] PatioCrasher : Been a few years for me but couldn't help taking advantage of this eth long here while this DAO is soaking up the sun.
[2016-05-13 07:21:21] PatioCrasher : :)
[2016-05-13 07:30:50] rapidtrades : alright
[2016-05-13 07:31:17] rapidtrades : be careful today tho
[2016-05-13 07:31:23] rapidtrades : its Friday the 13th :)
[2016-05-13 07:31:56] PatioCrasher : Im up 0.74BTC.. unrealized but yeah will start leveraging down my posiiton
[2016-05-13 07:32:32] PatioCrasher : I was down a 0.44 when I went to bed but fundamentals told me to stay in position .
[2016-05-13 07:37:34] rapidtrades : greaaat, fundametals
[2016-05-13 07:42:20] PatioCrasher : The UI is a lot better than last time I was here. Good job BITMex
[2016-05-13 07:42:54] rapidtrades : no it isn't
[2016-05-13 07:44:35] PatioCrasher : It is for me..
[2016-05-13 07:44:54] PatioCrasher : I find it easier now but I am no pro trader
[2016-05-13 08:17:27] BitMEX_Wally : We are launching a `DAOETH` future soon that will settle on the Gatecoin price on 24 June 2016. It pays out in Bitcoin at 1 ETH = 1 XBT so you can speculate using Bitcoin
[2016-05-13 08:18:27] PatioCrasher : wally is there a blog post on how it works for noobs?
[2016-05-13 08:52:53] BitMEX_Arthur : PatioCrasher: Yes it will be published when `DAOETH` goes live
[2016-05-13 08:53:13] rapidtrades : PatioCrasher: https://testnet.bitmex.com/
[2016-05-13 08:53:25] PatioCrasher : Ok thanks guys
[2016-05-13 08:59:02] sq : can i puill out XBT index from the API?
[2016-05-13 09:05:19] sq : also, i see in kaiko the index has cn, us, global
[2016-05-13 09:05:25] sq : which one do u use to calculate?
[2016-05-13 09:07:23] micmix : BitMEX_Wally: I see FCTXBT in the instrument table. Are you switching FCT to swap today?
[2016-05-13 09:07:41] BitMEX_Wally : micmix: Yes
[2016-05-13 09:07:54] micmix : ok, thanks!
[2016-05-13 09:08:10] BitMEX_Wally : sq: Yes you can query the `trade` endpoint for `.XBT`
[2016-05-13 09:08:18] BitMEX_Wally : Or you can get it from kaiko.com/bitmex
[2016-05-13 09:11:23] sq : thaks
[2016-05-13 10:00:56] j8 : unfortunately i don't think i'll be trading the swap the way it's specified. the DPE risk sounds extreme
[2016-05-13 10:07:53] BitMEX_Arthur : j8: How is that?
[2016-05-13 10:08:52] j8 : there is no weighted mid price marking right.. so when the market really starts moving the swap is bound to diverge from the mark price at least temporarily
[2016-05-13 10:09:18] BitMEX_Arthur : j8: The swap is marked to spot + funding
[2016-05-13 10:09:42] BitMEX_Arthur : If you trade at a price above or below the mark price you must fully fund it
[2016-05-13 10:10:03] BitMEX_Arthur : E.g. spot is $100, you want to trade at $105, the $5 premium you must pay in full, no leverage can be used
[2016-05-13 10:10:04] j8 : once the divergence is > maintenance margin, losing positions can then let themselves be liquidated and re-enter at a better price
[2016-05-13 10:10:13] rapidtrades : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg
[2016-05-13 10:10:40] BitMEX_Arthur : Sure you can do that, but you fully funded the divergence, so the other side will get paid that premium or discount
[2016-05-13 10:12:07] j8 : you might have entered at no divergence. now the market is strongly against you, and you are better off getting liquidated than exiting at the swap market price
[2016-05-13 10:12:23] BitMEX_Arthur : but that is always the case with DPE
[2016-05-13 10:12:24] BitMEX_Arthur : it's limited liability
[2016-05-13 10:12:26] j8 : but those liquidations are starting out behind the market
[2016-05-13 10:12:38] BitMEX_Arthur : but everything happens in real time
[2016-05-13 10:12:40] j8 : with mid price marking this isn't possible
[2016-05-13 10:13:44] j8 : if swap is 105 and spot+funding is 100, and i have a losing position, i can effectively exit at 100.5
[2016-05-13 10:14:47] j8 : this is the only mechanism that's supposed to tie the swap to spot, but really the market just breaks if it does diverge
[2016-05-13 10:15:05] BitMEX_Arthur : your pnl gets realised at the spot price
[2016-05-13 10:15:06] BitMEX_Arthur : not the futures price
[2016-05-13 10:15:10] BitMEX_Arthur : that's what keeps it anchored
[2016-05-13 10:15:51] BitMEX_Arthur : say i buy at 105, spot is 100, spot stays the same, future keeps rallying to 110, if i don't exit the position, i will owe 5 at rebalance
[2016-05-13 10:15:58] j8 : if you close out your position it's realised at the futures price
[2016-05-13 10:16:20] BitMEX_Arthur : right but the risk still remains that if you don't close out, you get realised at spot
[2016-05-13 10:17:01] j8 : yes, but if you can still close at whatever premium this makes up that loss
[2016-05-13 10:17:15] j8 : the only way to actually realize the position at spot is to let it liquidate
[2016-05-13 10:17:33] BitMEX_Arthur : but you have paid in full the 100-105 difference if you are long for example
[2016-05-13 10:17:41] BitMEX_Arthur : so ur liquidation price is 99.5
[2016-05-13 10:20:42] j8 : winning positions can't benefit from it, but losers can
[2016-05-13 10:22:13] BitMEX_Arthur : what do you mean
[2016-05-13 10:22:27] j8 : you enter short at 100, spot is 100. then spot goes to 105 and the swap goes to 110
[2016-05-13 10:23:03] BitMEX_Arthur : every friday you get realised at 105
[2016-05-13 10:23:22] BitMEX_Arthur : if someone wants to buy the swap above the mark price, they must pay in full
[2016-05-13 10:23:26] BitMEX_Arthur : it's not leveraged
[2016-05-13 10:23:39] BitMEX_Arthur : and you can't realise pnl at the swap price, only the spot price
[2016-05-13 10:24:18] BitMEX_Wally : You can't go long at 105 with 100x, the order is rejected with 'Executing at order price would lead to immediate liquidation'
[2016-05-13 10:24:26] BitMEX_Wally : You have to use Cross margin or reduce leverage
[2016-05-13 10:24:43] BitMEX_Wally : Basically you have to post 1% of 100 plus 5 so $6 in total
[2016-05-13 10:25:01] BitMEX_Wally : (going long at 105 when spot is 100)
[2016-05-13 10:29:00] j8 : ok so you get less leverage to go long, but the fact remains that if the swap trades at a premium, and the mark price is a couple dollars behind, by the time liquidations are triggered it will be too late
[2016-05-13 10:30:10] BitMEX_Arthur : How so in your scenario, you are assuming the swap price leads spot
[2016-05-13 10:30:24] j8 : that's the scenario
[2016-05-13 10:30:57] j8 : i need to be the devil's advocate, because you guys seem to assume that it will always track spot
[2016-05-13 10:31:23] BitMEX_Arthur : no i appreciate this conversation
[2016-05-13 10:31:30] j8 : if i'm gonna trade it, i need an idea of how closely it should track spot and on what timeframe
[2016-05-13 10:31:41] BitMEX_Arthur : well you get pnl realised each week
[2016-05-13 10:31:51] BitMEX_Arthur : and you pay interest based on the value of the swap using the spot price
[2016-05-13 10:32:07] BitMEX_Arthur : both performance and financing leg are based on the value using spot price
[2016-05-13 10:32:18] BitMEX_Arthur : and if you wish to trade at a price other than spot, you have to be fully funded
[2016-05-13 10:36:44] haxmb : BitMEX_Arthur: what date will de DAOETH launch?
[2016-05-13 10:36:49] haxmb : 14th or 15th of may? :)
[2016-05-13 10:37:00] j8 : when `XBT24H` launched it was marked to spot + fixed basis. it was a mess, it didn't really work until the mid price marking.. 0.5% is a small margin of error for clearing liquidations
[2016-05-13 10:37:26] BitMEX_Arthur : haxmb: No firm date, sometimes this weekend
[2016-05-13 10:37:31] haxmb : :'(
[2016-05-13 10:37:32] BitMEX_Arthur : We will announce once it goes live
[2016-05-13 10:37:38] haxmb : Why the secrecy?
[2016-05-13 10:37:48] haxmb : You not done getting yo longs on yaself? ;)
[2016-05-13 10:37:53] BitMEX_Arthur : Before Monday, because we don't want to steal thunder from `XBTUSD`
[2016-05-13 10:38:17] haxmb : ah well, understandable
[2016-05-13 10:38:24] haxmb : are you gonna send an email when it launches?
[2016-05-13 10:38:31] BitMEX_Arthur : haxmb: Yes
[2016-05-13 10:38:36] haxmb : otherwise imma have to stay behind computer all weekend
[2016-05-13 10:38:44] haxmb : cheers <3
[2016-05-13 10:39:22] BitMEX_Arthur : j8: That's why any premium or discount must be fully funded
[2016-05-13 10:39:26] BitMEX_Arthur : that isn't the case with a futures contract
[2016-05-13 10:39:45] BitMEX_Arthur : if XBTU16 trades at 1,000 and spot is at 100, you don't have to fund that 900 premium
[2016-05-13 10:39:52] BitMEX_Arthur : with `XBTUSD` you would have to
[2016-05-13 10:40:32] rapidtrades : wat
[2016-05-13 10:42:00] rapidtrades : that doesn't make sense to me
[2016-05-13 10:42:27] rapidtrades : this part : if XBTU16 trades at 1,000 and spot is at 100, you don't have to fund that 900 premium
[2016-05-13 10:42:49] j8 : it makes sense, when the mark price is 1000 and you buy at 1000
[2016-05-13 10:43:37] j8 : compared to when the mark price is 100 and you buy at 1000, you immediately have a big unrealised loss
[2016-05-13 10:45:52] BitMEX_Arthur : correct, and we make you pay for that unrealised loss with Bitcoin in full, such that if rebalancing happened immediately after the trade, you would not go bankrupt
[2016-05-13 10:51:01] j8 : so if i'm short and my liquidation price is 100.5, and the swap market is at 105, and spot+fundingBasis reaches 100.5, i get liquidated and the maintenance margin is enough to put a bid at 101, not 105. how is this not a problem?
[2016-05-13 10:54:10] BitMEX_Arthur : we don't let you put yourself in check
[2016-05-13 10:54:20] BitMEX_Arthur : simple example
[2016-05-13 10:54:24] BitMEX_Arthur : spot is 100
[2016-05-13 10:54:29] BitMEX_Arthur : you want to go long 100x
[2016-05-13 10:54:39] BitMEX_Arthur : you must post 1 as initial margin
[2016-05-13 10:54:50] BitMEX_Arthur : ok so now spot is 100, future is 105
[2016-05-13 10:54:54] BitMEX_Arthur : and you only have 1 bitcoin as margin
[2016-05-13 10:55:00] BitMEX_Arthur : your order gets rejected
[2016-05-13 10:55:07] BitMEX_Arthur : say you have 6 bitcoin as margin
[2016-05-13 10:55:12] BitMEX_Arthur : your order can go to market
[2016-05-13 10:55:26] BitMEX_Arthur : now you enter at 105, spot is at 100
[2016-05-13 10:55:31] BitMEX_Arthur : price doesn't change
[2016-05-13 10:55:36] BitMEX_Arthur : rebalance happens at 100
[2016-05-13 10:55:40] BitMEX_Arthur : you lose 5
[2016-05-13 10:55:49] BitMEX_Arthur : but you put up an extra 5 to cover for the basis
[2016-05-13 10:55:51] BitMEX_Arthur : so you are fine
[2016-05-13 10:56:01] BitMEX_Arthur : by fine i mean, no immediate liquidation or bankruptcy
[2016-05-13 10:58:11] j8 : i'm still talking about exiting a losing position.. maybe you entered short at 95, then isolated at 100 when the mark price went to 100 and the swap was at 105
[2016-05-13 10:58:33] j8 : you get a liquidation price of 100.5 and a bankruptcy price of 101
[2016-05-13 10:59:06] j8 : but there are no sellers until 105
[2016-05-13 11:00:33] BitMEX_Arthur : But that isn't solely a swap issue, same could happen on any DPE product
[2016-05-13 11:00:44] BitMEX_Arthur : If you get liquidated and no one is around to trade, it will always sit there
[2016-05-13 11:00:47] BitMEX_Arthur : no matter the marking method
[2016-05-13 11:01:52] j8 : but when it's marked to the swap or future, it's far more likely there is someone around to trade
[2016-05-13 11:03:36] BitMEX_Arthur : Nothing but empirical evidence is going to vindicate either of our positions, we will observe trader behaviour and adapt
[2016-05-13 11:10:11] j8 : it's a totally new kind of product, with unknown risks, it'll be a while and probably need some changes before i'm comfortable taking positions on it. if i just wanted to go long or short with high leverage it would probably be fine, but if i want to arb it or hedge other positions there's way too much at stake
[2016-05-13 11:13:56] j8 : it's easy to imagine reasons the swap would diverge by more than half a percent and it seems things just fall apart if that happens
[2016-05-13 11:15:47] BitMEX_Arthur : j8: The market can also gap 0.5% higher in a one minute candle as well, but people still trade highly leveraged products
[2016-05-13 11:15:51] BitMEX_Arthur : or lower
[2016-05-13 11:16:16] BitMEX_Arthur : I totally agree this is definitely a speculative trading instrument, but that's what the market wants
[2016-05-13 11:17:12] j8 : yeah but those highly leveraged products are able to clear because they are marked to market, not to some other market
[2016-05-13 11:17:39] haxmb : if the market wants to get REKT, let em have it
[2016-05-13 11:17:45] haxmb : I dont see the problem
[2016-05-13 11:18:31] BitMEX_Arthur : Basis risk is a real thing if you mark to a market that is vastly higher than the spot price, when or if basis corrects sharply that's when you get DPE
[2016-05-13 11:18:46] BitMEX_Arthur : now most of that basis is driven by gamma
[2016-05-13 11:18:54] BitMEX_Arthur : which has been eliminated in XBTUSD
[2016-05-13 11:19:42] j8 : disagree, it was more driven by leverage on the daily
[2016-05-13 11:19:46] BitMEX_Arthur : and basis is also driven by interest rate differentials which is taken care of by the daily funding
[2016-05-13 11:21:26] BitMEX_Arthur : mm who are short gamma will raise prices aggressively in volatile situations
[2016-05-13 11:21:27] j8 : any systematic difference between the funding basis and what people are willing to pay would seem to lead to increasing divergence though.
[2016-05-13 11:22:05] BitMEX_Arthur : but u don't get leverage on the difference between spot and swap price, so i believe that will mitigate your fears
[2016-05-13 11:26:10] j8 : it helps, i would need to do some numbers to think about how much it helps
[2016-05-13 11:34:03] j8 : for the record i thought 100x was a bad idea at the time, but it's worked out fine
[2016-05-13 11:42:09] habibi : BitMEX_Wally: rebalance for eth in 4 days?
[2016-05-13 11:45:21] rapidtrades : ethbtc settlement in 15 mins?
[2016-05-13 11:45:43] sleger : whats the name of new instrument from api point of view, XBT24H is replaced by ?
[2016-05-13 11:46:36] sleger : thanks for the advance notice....
[2016-05-13 11:46:45] Teddy76 : XBTUSD ?
[2016-05-13 11:48:16] BitMEX_Arthur : `XBTUSD`
[2016-05-13 11:49:59] rapidtrades : wait a min...isn't there a cal period for the ETH swap
[2016-05-13 11:50:10] sleger : going from "we'll take our time to make it right before removing quantos on xbt" to giving barely 24 h notice gives the impression that the bunch of kids is not the clients, but the people running the exchange @BitMEX_Arthur
[2016-05-13 11:50:37] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 200 @ 0.02364
[2016-05-13 11:50:49] rapidtrades : the mark just dropped 17 basis points
[2016-05-13 11:51:08] rapidtrades : don't we have a 2h calc period
[2016-05-13 11:51:10] habibi : rapidtrades: its rebalance, no settlement
[2016-05-13 11:51:26] rapidtrades : speak eng
[2016-05-13 11:52:50] j8 : rebalances use the instantaneous mark price
[2016-05-13 11:53:15] rapidtrades : well f great
[2016-05-13 11:53:18] rapidtrades : F*CK
[2016-05-13 12:00:58] BitMEX_Wally : `ETHXBT` and `LTCXBT` just rebalanced
[2016-05-13 12:01:07] BitMEX_Wally : The countdown in the ticker bar is wrong
[2016-05-13 12:01:37] habibi : fix rebalance countdown, day number is wrong
[2016-05-13 12:02:02] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Wally: so for the realised PnL on the swaps, it will just keep on ticking? or from friday to friday only
[2016-05-13 12:02:20] BitMEX_Wally : Yes
[2016-05-13 12:03:41] rapidtrades : why is it so hard to figure out if uve made money? now i gotta add up everything on a calc
[2016-05-13 12:04:09] BitMEX_Wally : There is a CashRebalance transaction in your wallet
[2016-05-13 12:04:13] BitMEX_Wally : If that is positive you made money this week
[2016-05-13 12:06:05] rapidtrades : why can't u do a simple PnL per order
[2016-05-13 12:06:13] tscha : trade history?
[2016-05-13 12:06:27] haxmb : symbol
[2016-05-13 12:06:30] rapidtrades : to include everything, comm and roll
[2016-05-13 12:06:31] haxmb : is now XBTUSD ?|
[2016-05-13 12:06:39] haxmb : instead of XBT24H ?
[2016-05-13 12:06:47] rapidtrades : yeah its no longer a quanto
[2016-05-13 12:06:50] tscha : haxmb: yeah... Surprise!!!!
[2016-05-13 12:06:53] BitMEX_Arthur : `XBTUSD` is 100x, and does not expire
[2016-05-13 12:07:11] haxmb : thanks for destroying my bots
[2016-05-13 12:07:13] haxmb : ffs
[2016-05-13 12:07:28] Rune : ded bots
[2016-05-13 12:07:51] rapidtrades : wtf....where were u? it was discussed here few days ago
[2016-05-13 12:08:03] rapidtrades : it was fairly sudden tbh
[2016-05-13 12:08:24] tscha : rapidtrades: less than 2 days
[2016-05-13 12:08:45] rapidtrades : like few days ago arthur was like....oh yeah BTC swap goes live this friday
[2016-05-13 12:09:27] tscha : BitMEX_Arthur: pls tell sam to put the perpetual swap on the very left side, where the daily was before
[2016-05-13 12:10:04] haxmb : rapidtrades: bitmex APIs just suddenly stop giving data
[2016-05-13 12:10:28] haxmb : im not gonna code a change in hardcoded data in my bot
[2016-05-13 12:11:20] BitMEX_Wally : tscha: Hit refresh
[2016-05-13 12:11:37] tscha : BitMEX_Wally: ty
[2016-05-13 12:12:06] tscha : enough js skills to switch those? :) :P
[2016-05-13 12:12:16] rapidtrades : i lost $5-6 on that eth fiasco
[2016-05-13 12:12:28] ggwp : rapidtrades: RIP
[2016-05-13 12:12:48] rapidtrades : i thought there was a calc
[2016-05-13 12:13:14] sleger : rapidtrades: 5 to 6 entire dollars wow...
[2016-05-13 12:13:39] Rune : lol 5 bucks
[2016-05-13 12:14:08] rapidtrades : yeah so? its a mistake...i lost over 250 this morning in fx didn't care cos it was part of the system
[2016-05-13 12:14:21] BitMEX_Wally : You have a system to lose money?
[2016-05-13 12:14:28] sleger : he has the best system
[2016-05-13 12:14:43] sleger : because it gives him more than 24 hours notice before it loses money
[2016-05-13 12:15:26] rapidtrades : no....my point is losing money doesn't phase me much if its part of the plan
[2016-05-13 12:15:42] sleger : you got plans to lose money ?
[2016-05-13 12:15:58] rapidtrades : oh i lose money on most days bud
[2016-05-13 12:16:35] tscha : don't worry, one time you will win big
[2016-05-13 12:16:44] tscha : just keep on trading
[2016-05-13 12:16:50] sleger : or buying lottery tickets
[2016-05-13 12:16:53] Rune : I lot a ton on eth
[2016-05-13 12:17:07] rapidtrades : im up for the year don't worry everyone lol
[2016-05-13 12:17:31] rapidtrades : its just how i trade :)
[2016-05-13 12:18:50] tscha : yeah, you are just a wild trader rapid - not one of those boring math neckbeards... a real trader, who backtests by hand and doesn't give fukk about risks
[2016-05-13 12:19:49] Rune : thats how I trade
[2016-05-13 12:20:02] Rune : all in baby
[2016-05-13 12:20:11] Rune : no shitty math
[2016-05-13 12:20:17] rapidtrades : everything i do is risk defined...that's a large part of the reason why I never got big shorting quantos
[2016-05-13 12:20:29] rapidtrades : can't quantify that clawback risk
[2016-05-13 12:21:21] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETHXBT`: Buy 333 @ 0.02388
[2016-05-13 12:21:29] j8 : either you missed out, or i got lucky @rapidtrades
[2016-05-13 12:22:54] tscha : clawback actually reduces risk since it takes value from the extreme tails (high profit, high loss)
[2016-05-13 12:23:33] rapidtrades : shorters are much more likely to get stuck with the bill though
[2016-05-13 12:24:47] rapidtrades : i don't think we're ever had clawabcks when going up
[2016-05-13 12:32:31] rapidtrades : I've been doing this longer then most of you've been alive
[2016-05-13 12:32:44] rapidtrades : except sleger, he sounds like an old fart
[2016-05-13 12:57:52] Rune : how did someone buy all the way up to 457
[2016-05-13 12:57:55] Rune : what
[2016-05-13 13:05:55] sleger : " tscha: clawback actually reduces risk " tscha, 2016
[2016-05-13 13:08:07] sleger : dont even know where to start to explain how much that's ignorant
[2016-05-13 13:09:19] tscha : you know that the ability to recognize humor is correlated highly with intelligence?
[2016-05-13 13:10:41] sleger : i'm glad you agree with what i said now
[2016-05-13 13:27:47] laisee : slegers gotta slege, it seems
[2016-05-13 14:07:29] HowDoge : under stops why isnt it showing the price. just says market. started a few days ago
[2016-05-13 14:14:57] BitMEX_Wally : A Stop Market order has no limit price so it just says Market
[2016-05-13 14:15:16] BitMEX_Wally : if you submit a Stop Limit order it will show the limit price
[2016-05-13 14:17:20] guembesn : Same question here regarding the "stop market order"
[2016-05-13 14:17:35] BitMEX_Wally : What is the question?
[2016-05-13 14:18:17] guembesn : If I understood well, you choose the triggering price of the stop, and it execute at market price and with market fees when it reaches it ?
[2016-05-13 14:19:14] BitMEX_Wally : Correct
[2016-05-13 14:20:29] guembesn : So yeah, same problem , as Howdoge said, in "Stop" list, you just see "market", you don't know what was the price of your stop if you want to check it later.
[2016-05-13 14:20:50] guembesn : Or maybe I missed it ?
[2016-05-13 14:21:07] BitMEX_Wally : The price it executed at?
[2016-05-13 14:21:19] BitMEX_Wally : i see the problem, we will fix
[2016-05-13 14:22:24] guembesn : Exact, the triggering price of the stop doesn't appear
[2016-05-13 14:22:27] guembesn : Thanks :)
[2016-05-13 14:22:41] guembesn : What about this "Stop limit" order ?
[2016-05-13 14:23:01] guembesn : How does it work ?
[2016-05-13 14:23:31] BitMEX_Wally : It is a Limit order that triggers instead of a Marker order
[2016-05-13 14:24:42] BitMEX_Wally : If you are long you could set a Stop Limit order to sell with stop price of 440 and a limit price of 430. Then when it triggers it will sell down to 430 and no lower
[2016-05-13 14:26:36] BitMEX_Wally : guembesn: the triggering price of the stop is the stopPx. What you are missing is the executed price?
[2016-05-13 14:26:53] BitMEX_Wally : you can see the executed price in the Trade History:
[2016-05-13 14:26:55] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.bitmex.com/app/tradeHistory
[2016-05-13 14:27:13] BitMEX_Wally : We will update the Fills tab to include the execution price
[2016-05-13 14:27:21] guembesn : OK
[2016-05-13 14:28:06] guembesn : What if , in your example, there is not enough liquidity between the stop price and the limit price ?
[2016-05-13 14:28:50] BitMEX_Wally : Then the remaining quantity rests in the order book like a normal limit order
[2016-05-13 14:28:59] BitMEX_Wally : if the price comes back up it gets filled
[2016-05-13 14:29:08] BitMEX_Wally : if the price keeps falling then it does not get filled
[2016-05-13 14:29:44] guembesn : OK I see
[2016-05-13 14:29:56] guembesn : Thanks
[2016-05-13 14:36:33] HowDoge : @BitMEX_Wally @guembesn sorry was afk, thanks for looking into this. I used to be able to see the stop price I had entered and a few days ago it changed to indicating the type of stop. just confused a few of us I expect
[2016-05-13 14:36:49] HowDoge : if the stop price could be shown that would be grand
[2016-05-13 14:40:56] BitMEX_Sam : HowDoge: Looking into that now, will have an update for you very shortly
[2016-05-13 14:41:56] BitMEX_Wally : There is a column called "Stop Price"
[2016-05-13 14:42:08] BitMEX_Wally : on the Stops tab
[2016-05-13 14:42:41] HowDoge : http://prntscr.com/b3lc2x
[2016-05-13 14:43:39] BitMEX_Wally : Ahh, my apologies. I'm on my phone and it shows the Stop Price but not the Fill Price
[2016-05-13 14:43:59] HowDoge : :)
[2016-05-13 14:44:16] HowDoge : dont worry im used to feeling retarded ;P
[2016-05-13 14:45:03] BitMEX_Wally : We'll make sure both Stop Price and Fill Price are shown on both desktop and mobile versions
[2016-05-13 14:53:34] BitMEX_Sam : HowDoge: Please refresh, the issue is fixed
[2016-05-13 15:09:22] Johnster : Can the full account balance/equity be used as collateral for positions?
[2016-05-13 15:09:56] BitMEX_Wally : Yes you can use the Leverage Selector to choose 'Cross'
[2016-05-13 15:10:21] Johnster : So you call it cross margin as well... ?
[2016-05-13 15:10:44] BitMEX_Sam : Yep.
[2016-05-13 15:11:11] BitMEX_Sam : It's cross & fixed margin, just like on other platforms. Only difference here is that we let you set it at any time.
[2016-05-13 15:11:22] Johnster : Sam... Perpetual Swap, it's more like a CFD instead of a futures contract. Do I get it right?
[2016-05-13 15:12:45] BitMEX_Wally : It is a swap but long vs short. We are the cental counterparty for moving pnl between winner and looser, but you are not trading against us
[2016-05-13 15:13:11] Blargwaffle : Tighter and looser!
[2016-05-13 15:13:36] BitMEX_Wally : So it is like a peer to peer CFD
[2016-05-13 15:14:07] Johnster : Hmmm... that sounds like a great product to deal with.
[2016-05-13 15:14:28] Johnster : Tight spreads?
[2016-05-13 15:14:38] BitMEX_Wally : Yes
[2016-05-13 15:14:59] Johnster : So what does a size of 1000 represent?
[2016-05-13 15:15:50] BitMEX_Sam : They're inverse contracts for US$1 of Bitcoin
[2016-05-13 15:16:45] Johnster : Elaborate pls.
[2016-05-13 15:17:09] BitMEX_Wally : 1000 contracts = 1000 USD
[2016-05-13 15:17:45] BitMEX_Wally : On Bitfinex you trade an amount of Bitcoin and get paid PNL in USD. On BitMEX you trade an mount of USD and get pain PNL in Bitcoin.
[2016-05-13 15:17:55] BitMEX_Wally : *paid
[2016-05-13 15:18:40] BitMEX_Wally : So if I buy 450 contracts of XBTUSD at $450 then that is 1 Bitcoin worth
[2016-05-13 15:18:59] BitMEX_Wally : If the price rises to $500 then my profit is 50 / 500 = 0.1 Bitcoin
[2016-05-13 15:20:28] Johnster : and if you're on 100x 10btc...
[2016-05-13 15:20:51] Johnster : So we can stay in coin the whole time?
[2016-05-13 15:20:54] BitMEX_Wally : The leverage does not change the size of your position, it just changes the amount of margin you need to put up
[2016-05-13 15:21:31] Johnster : This launched today?
[2016-05-13 15:21:43] BitMEX_Wally : All our products use Bitcoin as the margin, pnl, and settlement currency
[2016-05-13 15:22:17] BitMEX_Wally : `XBTUSD` launched today. We used to have a 100x future that expired every day
[2016-05-13 15:22:31] Johnster : I haven't checked out BitMex for a while... a few products are gone?
[2016-05-13 15:22:31] BitMEX_Wally : But people wanted to keep their positions open so we have launched this `XBTUSD` perpetual swap
[2016-05-13 15:22:51] Johnster : 100x every day can't be that populair...
[2016-05-13 15:23:10] BitMEX_Wally : Our 100x XBT24H future was the most popular product
[2016-05-13 15:23:25] BitMEX_Wally : 100x is just the maximum leverage, you can choose your own leverage
[2016-05-13 15:23:32] Johnster : That's why you cancelled it... :-)
[2016-05-13 15:23:45] Johnster : Ahummm improved it.
[2016-05-13 15:24:07] BitMEX_Wally : `XBTUSD` is the same as `XBT24H` but your position does not expire
[2016-05-13 15:24:18] Johnster : fees?
[2016-05-13 15:24:20] BitMEX_Wally : Same
[2016-05-13 15:24:29] Johnster : that is?
[2016-05-13 15:24:30] BitMEX_Wally : Except there is no settlement fee now
[2016-05-13 15:24:39] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.bitmex.com/app/fees
[2016-05-13 15:27:12] Johnster : Maker = opening position, taker closing a position?
[2016-05-13 15:27:35] Rdnkjdi : Where can I read on Ethereum perpetual swap? What is it? The old way of long / shorting went away ... sell still = shorting?
[2016-05-13 15:29:12] Rdnkjdi : ahh sweet got it
[2016-05-13 15:30:25] BitMEX_Sam : Johnster: It has to do with whether or not your order makes liquidity or takes it - i.e. if it sits in the book before executing, or executes on creation
[2016-05-13 15:30:38] BitMEX_Sam : Rdnkjdi: Yes, the fundamentals are essentially the same as before :)
[2016-05-13 15:31:57] Johnster : Wha is long/short funding
[2016-05-13 15:32:22] lockhedge : is there any reason why you moved away from Impact Mid Price as marking method?
[2016-05-13 15:32:25] BitMEX_Sam : The info is just below, see the `Daily Funding Fees` section and the link to the Swaps Guide
[2016-05-13 15:33:12] BitMEX_Wally : XBTUSD is not quanto, so there won't be as much basis
[2016-05-13 15:33:44] Rdnkjdi : Ok - stupid question - how do I edit my margin (Cross etc)? I'm not seeing it on the positions like I used to (Ethereum perpetual swap)
[2016-05-13 15:34:17] BitMEX_Wally : There is a leverage selector on the side bar on the left
[2016-05-13 15:35:17] BitMEX_Wally : Under 'Your Position: ETHXBT'
[2016-05-13 15:35:21] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 706 @ 0.02362
[2016-05-13 15:35:51] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 12 @ 0.02327
[2016-05-13 15:35:51] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 100 @ 0.02340
[2016-05-13 15:35:51] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 41 @ 0.02332
[2016-05-13 15:36:04] Rdnkjdi : arggg - I click it and it auto did orders for me!!!!
[2016-05-13 15:36:27] BitMEX_Wally : Changing the leverage does not submit orders
[2016-05-13 15:38:38] BitMEX_Wally : Rdnkjdi: It looks like you placed a limit order to buy ETHXBT, and then a few minutes later it got filled
[2016-05-13 15:38:44] BitMEX_Wally : This was nothing to do with you changing leverage
[2016-05-13 15:38:46] Rdnkjdi : Yes
[2016-05-13 15:38:50] Rdnkjdi : You are correct.
[2016-05-13 15:39:22] Rdnkjdi : I have .55 cross on margin with my current 400 Eth short. But there's .87 BTC balance in my wallet
[2016-05-13 15:40:06] BitMEX_Wally : The number shown is the amount locked into the position. With cross margin the whole balance is being used to increase the liquidation price
[2016-05-13 15:40:06] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 6000 @ 0.02300
[2016-05-13 15:40:10] Johnster : so cross is only available at 1x?
[2016-05-13 15:40:33] Rdnkjdi : BitMEX_Wally: Ok - that explains it
[2016-05-13 15:40:34] Rdnkjdi : Thank you
[2016-05-13 15:41:21] BitMEX_Wally : The way Cross works is that actually it puts the position into 25x and then if the position has any losses, it tops up the margin using your account balance
[2016-05-13 15:41:42] Rdnkjdi : BitMEX_Wally: Thank you
[2016-05-13 15:42:05] zanza : Whoa, nice perpetual!
[2016-05-13 15:42:34] lockhedge : BitMEX_Wally: in what intervals do you update the Fair Basis Calculation and the Funding Rate?
[2016-05-13 15:42:43] Johnster : and get liquidated at? 80%
[2016-05-13 15:43:13] BitMEX_Wally : The funding rate is updated every 24 hours, based on the previous 24 hours TWAP. And then it is charged 24 hours later
[2016-05-13 15:43:31] BitMEX_Wally : The fair basis rate is just the daily fundingRate * 365
[2016-05-13 15:44:04] BitMEX_Wally : So if the funding rate is 0.05% then at 12:01 the fair price is 0.05% above spot, and this decays throughout the day
[2016-05-13 15:44:20] haxmb : REKTerino
[2016-05-13 15:44:26] habibi : dpe so far
[2016-05-13 15:47:43] haxmb : nom nom
[2016-05-13 15:47:52] Johnster : Anyway... this product won't wreck you if you are in a losing position on settlement day... because there isn't a settlement. :-) One factor less to consider in trading.
[2016-05-13 15:47:53] migz : Ahhh, that is tasty.
[2016-05-13 15:48:12] haxmb : who grabbed that last part of 2270
[2016-05-13 15:48:25] habibi : take 1779 from it
[2016-05-13 15:48:28] habibi : took*
[2016-05-13 15:48:31] haxmb : damn you <3
[2016-05-13 15:48:49] Johnster : Anyway... this product won't wreck you if you are in a losing position on settlement day... because there isn't a settlement. ? One factor less to consider in trading. Correct?
[2016-05-13 15:49:24] BitMEX_Wally : Johnster: Correct, if you have the margin to keep the position open you can wait for the price to revert
[2016-05-13 15:49:25] haxmb : if you mean you can hold your losing position until it becomes profitable again (if ever) then yes
[2016-05-13 15:49:47] BitMEX_Wally : If you are short XBTUSD then you earn the funding rate
[2016-05-13 15:49:49] lockhedge : BitMEX_Wally: ok, thanks. congratulations for listing this innovative instrument. i'm just worrying about possible late liquidations when XBTUSD trades at a high premium above the mark price.
[2016-05-13 15:50:20] BitMEX_Wally : XBTUSD is unlikely to trade at a high premium because it is not-quanto, it is marked to spot, and it rebalances weekly
[2016-05-13 15:50:25] BitMEX_Wally : So market makers can just arb it against spot very easily
[2016-05-13 15:50:47] Johnster : Well I do have a trading strategy, and sometimes adding margin saved the day... many times to be honest.
[2016-05-13 15:50:53] Johnster : never wrecked me.
[2016-05-13 15:51:54] Johnster : Once I understand the fees, I might want to move all my assest here.
[2016-05-13 15:52:23] BitMEX_Wally : Johnster: Let us know if you have any questions, we're happy to help
[2016-05-13 15:53:22] Johnster : Is your teamspeak channel still open?
[2016-05-13 15:55:18] rapidtrades : 17:50 - Johnster: never wrecked me. there's always next time :)
[2016-05-13 15:56:07] Johnster : Honestly: NEVER wrecked me... never been margin called for over a year.
[2016-05-13 15:56:32] sq : where can i check the funding rate for the btcusd swap?
[2016-05-13 15:56:33] sq : tks
[2016-05-13 15:56:44] lockhedge : BitMEX_Wally: we will see if quanto or high leverage is the main driver for a premium here. DPE makes arb strategies very risky when volatility is high.
[2016-05-13 15:57:00] BitMEX_Wally : sq: It is in the Contract Details widget
[2016-05-13 15:57:06] BitMEX_Wally : And on the fees page
[2016-05-13 15:57:10] Johnster : Bitmex_sam Is your teamspeak channel still open?
[2016-05-13 15:57:29] BitMEX_Wally : ts.bitmex.com
[2016-05-13 15:57:33] BitMEX_Arthur : lockhedge: Also a function of liquidity
[2016-05-13 15:57:50] sq : ic tks
[2016-05-13 15:57:55] BitMEX_Arthur : `XBTUSD` in only a few hours has better on screen liquidity than `XBT24H` ever did
[2016-05-13 15:57:58] Johnster : BitMEX_Wally: ts.bitmex.com still works it seems.
[2016-05-13 15:58:21] j8 : even if the swap is only 0.5% ahead of the mark price, that means no liquidations will get filled without a retrace or spending the insurance fund
[2016-05-13 15:58:29] Johnster : Let's promote teamspeak a bit more.
[2016-05-13 15:58:32] sq : do u intend to keep only 2 more tenors 24jun n 30 sep?
[2016-05-13 15:59:02] j8 : the contracts are half the size though @BitMEX_Arthur
[2016-05-13 15:59:44] lockhedge : BitMEX_Arthur: already noticed, very nice spread
[2016-05-13 16:01:26] ram : when withild profit is out in Ethereum
[2016-05-13 16:03:46] lockhedge : j8: yesterday you could buy/sell about 35000 contracts within a <1% spread, today it's more than 100000 contracts, top of the book is more competitive as well
[2016-05-13 16:04:46] j8 : right but 100,000 now is more or less the same notional as 50,000 yesterday
[2016-05-13 16:05:17] j8 : liquidity has been bad the last few weeks/months though.
[2016-05-13 16:06:00] j8 : the main MM used to quote 7000's and even 12500's
[2016-05-13 16:08:46] BitMEX_Wally : If the swap contract trades more than the maintenance margin above spot then we will look into using Impact Mid Price again
[2016-05-13 16:09:25] j8 : why not do it now? by that point it will be too late.
[2016-05-13 16:10:02] BitMEX_Wally : Because we want to rebalance at the spot price, and we cannot do that if it would cause liquidations
[2016-05-13 16:10:14] BitMEX_Wally : Rebalancing at the spot price is more important for keeping the swap in line
[2016-05-13 16:10:46] Johnster : Wally where is the 100x price averaged from?
[2016-05-13 16:10:59] Johnster : BitFInex and...
[2016-05-13 16:11:05] BitMEX_Sam : https://kaiko.com/bitmex
[2016-05-13 16:11:11] BitMEX_Wally : OKC and Bitstamp
[2016-05-13 16:11:23] Johnster : 3 markets
[2016-05-13 16:11:40] Johnster : or is CNY in the mix as well?
[2016-05-13 16:11:53] BitMEX_Wally : No
[2016-05-13 16:12:01] j8 : BitMEX_Wally: wouldn't changing the price marking after there's a premium cause liquidations also?
[2016-05-13 16:12:40] BitMEX_Wally : j8: No, because the premium would be 100% funded by grossOpenPremium
[2016-05-13 16:13:14] lockhedge : BitMEX_Wally: ok, makes sense. Rebalancing at the index price should stay, maybe even daily.
[2016-05-13 16:14:46] BitMEX_Wally : Johnster: We might launch an `XBTCNY` swap if there is Chinese demand
[2016-05-13 16:14:55] habibi : where u see that awsome opportunities on 24h once again?
[2016-05-13 16:14:56] j8 : if you change to mid price marking and the mark price jumps 2$, you will likely liquidate some people
[2016-05-13 16:15:37] BitMEX_Wally : j8: Yes, but as you say they should have been liquidated earlier if the swap is leading spot