This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2016-05-05 15:12:07] podizzle3k : id give up hope on that one
[2016-05-05 15:12:25] podizzle3k : not saying its gonna crash but any kind of reactionary price rise is out of the question
[2016-05-05 15:12:34] podizzle3k : everyone knows by this point
[2016-05-05 15:28:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETH7D`: Buy 500 @ 0.02134
[2016-05-05 15:30:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETH7D`: Buy 795 @ 0.02147
[2016-05-05 15:40:46] ayy_lmao : lmao
[2016-05-05 15:48:52] tscha : interesting interview with gavin about wright (that was before the 'i'm sorry' announcement though) http://qz.com/675830/two-early-bitcoin-developers-who-worked-directly-with-satoshi-nakamoto-weigh-in-on-his-real-identity/
[2016-05-05 16:02:52] rapidtrades : I don’t think it’s Gavin. I don’t think it’s Nick [Szabo, another close collaborator of Nakamoto’s]. Those are the two popular choices. I don’t think it’s me, but I’m not sure.
[2016-05-05 16:03:02] rapidtrades : wtf Garzik outing himself
[2016-05-05 16:04:09] rapidtrades : Jeff Garzik created bitcoin, you can quote me on that
[2016-05-05 16:05:56] rapidtrades : ''Jeff Garzik created bitcoin'' rapidtrades 2016
[2016-05-05 16:07:21] BitMEX_Sam : `"Jeff Garzik created bitcoin" rapidtrades 2016` rapidtrades 2016
[2016-05-05 16:12:18] sq : hi, do you have an api i can use to get historical data? tks
[2016-05-05 16:12:36] sq : also, whats the trading costs/fees?
[2016-05-05 16:12:57] BitMEX_Sam : sq: See https://www.bitmex.com/app/apiOverview for the API
[2016-05-05 16:13:03] BitMEX_Sam : And https://www.bitmex.com/app/fees for fees
[2016-05-05 16:13:07] sq : tks vm
[2016-05-05 17:08:51] REKT : Liquidated short on `ETH7D`: Buy 60 @ 0.02241
[2016-05-05 18:47:00] mrp1nk : podizzle3k: so far price is moving up nicely. i think it needs some time until ppl realize and digest what is going on. i feel very comfy in my long position
[2016-05-05 18:47:46] podizzle3k : bitcoin traders do not take time to realize and digest
[2016-05-05 18:47:54] podizzle3k : when it forked in 2013 it dumped within seconds
[2016-05-05 18:48:06] podizzle3k : when silk road was busted it dumped within seconds
[2016-05-05 18:49:53] podizzle3k : i think okcoin whales gonna flash crash it to cash out on some shorts
[2016-05-05 18:50:00] podizzle3k : but overall it will go up until halving
[2016-05-05 18:51:06] podizzle3k : even a tiny dump would start a margin call cascade between okcoin and bitfinex everyone and their mom is in a long position
[2016-05-05 18:51:51] mrp1nk : yeah, thats also true
[2016-05-05 18:52:27] podizzle3k : either they flash crash it tonight or maybe run it up to $470 first then crash it back to 450
[2016-05-05 18:53:16] mrp1nk : could happen, sure
[2016-05-05 18:53:17] podizzle3k : 3rd option would be a slow and steady pump to around 500
[2016-05-05 18:53:25] podizzle3k : i bet thats the one youre lookin for
[2016-05-05 18:54:06] mrp1nk : #MyStopsAreReady :-)
[2016-05-05 18:54:24] podizzle3k : haha youre all set then
[2016-05-05 18:54:58] rapidtrades : reading this chat gives me cancer
[2016-05-05 18:55:23] mrp1nk : rapidtrades: why
[2016-05-05 18:56:00] rapidtrades : bunch of tools talking in a matter of fact manner ''X will happen at this point''
[2016-05-05 18:56:08] rapidtrades : u don't know shit, sit down and shut up
[2016-05-05 18:56:22] podizzle3k : how about i smack the shit out you little boy
[2016-05-05 18:56:27] podizzle3k : *thwack*
[2016-05-05 18:56:40] rapidtrades : how about u show some humility ffs
[2016-05-05 18:56:54] podizzle3k : go arbitrage a few satoshis and reassess your life
[2016-05-05 18:57:14] podizzle3k : humiity? i gave possible options that i see as possibilities
[2016-05-05 18:57:32] podizzle3k : youre making it sound like i am declaring precisely what will happen like some overlord
[2016-05-05 18:57:52] rapidtrades : oh...i must've misread that...sorry :)
[2016-05-05 18:58:12] podizzle3k : its all good i cant hate you
[2016-05-05 18:58:15] podizzle3k : sleger on the other hand......
[2016-05-05 18:58:52] podizzle3k : btw where is this bitmex rich list i seen on twitter
[2016-05-05 19:04:18] rapidtrades : ready for the pump..already rolled over my futures
[2016-05-05 19:04:44] rapidtrades : that was too easy to do btw plus i did it for a credit....can't be good :(
[2016-05-05 19:05:14] BitMEX_Sam : https://www.bitmex.com/app/leaderboard
[2016-05-05 19:06:08] podizzle3k : can i choose another name other than Almond-Cookie-Soarer
[2016-05-05 19:07:06] BitMEX_Sam : :) You can claim a position in your preferences page
[2016-05-05 19:07:26] BitMEX_Sam : cengel and micmix already did.
[2016-05-05 19:07:33] podizzle3k : i see.
[2016-05-05 19:09:37] podizzle3k : roi = wallet balance / (deposited - withdrawn) * 100
[2016-05-05 19:09:45] podizzle3k : somethin like that iguess
[2016-05-05 19:10:34] podizzle3k : if anyone wants a good depth chart for poloniex ETH https://dc-charts.com/depth_eth.php?ex=16&cu=0
[2016-05-05 19:17:17] podizzle3k : too bad it doesnt dynamically update
[2016-05-05 19:22:51] BitMEX_Sam : podizzle3k: Yeah, pretty close: notional is `wallet.amount - (wallet.deposited - wallet.withdrawn)`
[2016-05-05 19:23:08] BitMEX_Sam : ROE is `notional / wallet.deposited`
[2016-05-05 19:25:14] podizzle3k : cool im a bit of a programmer myself
[2016-05-05 19:25:23] podizzle3k : made a pretty wicked nick completer in mirc script
[2016-05-05 19:36:59] dorothy490 : guys I think I found one helpful thing instead of liquidation use market stop orders
[2016-05-05 19:38:52] tscha : i made a python script that checks satoshis address on outgoing transactions and drops coins in case
[2016-05-05 19:39:01] habibi : bitmex oscar 2016 goes to dorothy490!
[2016-05-05 19:39:40] habibi : how many addresses did u include tscha?
[2016-05-05 19:39:41] aethlios : BitMEX_Sam: Hi Sam, I want to ask you about the xbtusd swap. Open positions never settle? Every friday? You can only close an open position with a reverse trade?
[2016-05-05 19:40:08] tscha : habibi: one, the one BBC sent money to because wright said he will send it back
[2016-05-05 19:40:20] BitMEX_Sam : They never settle. You have to close the position by making the opposite trade.
[2016-05-05 19:40:24] tscha : 12cbQLTFMXRnSzktFkuoG3eHoMeFtpTu3S
[2016-05-05 19:40:46] habibi : tscha: he said many things :p
[2016-05-05 19:41:18] tscha : habibi: he said he will move coins from this address specifically, so I just included this one
[2016-05-05 19:41:30] tscha : but now, after his post, I doubt this will happen :(
[2016-05-05 19:44:37] aethlios : BitMEX_Sam: Ok, and it will be a quanto contract right? This will get very crazy in bullish environment.
[2016-05-05 19:48:19] dorothy490 : what the point in showing part of order value if you want to hide other part?
[2016-05-05 19:48:44] sleger : Attract takers?
[2016-05-05 19:49:11] sleger : BitMEX_Sam: what is 'notional' in your roe formula?
[2016-05-05 19:49:30] dorothy490 : but arb bots will plaec bets behind your order
[2016-05-05 19:51:40] dorothy490 : BitMEX_Sam: can someone see my stop market orders?
[2016-05-05 19:53:00] sleger : All admins can see it
[2016-05-05 19:55:25] tscha : haha https://twitter.com/gavinandresen/status/728306636847222786
[2016-05-05 19:56:54] tscha : plot twist - we are all satoshi, so craig wright is too
[2016-05-05 19:58:31] dorothy490 : can market makers or other users xept admins see them?
[2016-05-05 20:03:02] QuantFocus : Let's get some liquidity on the XBTU boys
[2016-05-05 20:05:50] habibi : QuantFocus: new mm?
[2016-05-05 20:06:19] QuantFocus : It appears that way
[2016-05-05 20:06:35] QuantFocus : Although I'm not by any official declaration
[2016-05-05 20:09:22] hello : .
[2016-05-05 20:09:23] hello : ...
[2016-05-05 20:09:23] hello : .
[2016-05-05 20:09:24] hello : .
[2016-05-05 20:09:29] hello : hello>
[2016-05-05 20:12:58] rapidtrades : hello: shut up
[2016-05-05 20:13:33] rapidtrades : support? why do I have to rearrange the chat box and close the chart every single time I reload this window
[2016-05-05 20:13:47] rapidtrades : can't u save my preferences
[2016-05-05 20:14:45] wildc : where is the ethxbt market?
[2016-05-05 20:16:00] rapidtrades : says etherium right there >>>>^^^^^^^^^
[2016-05-05 20:16:20] wildc : not that one
[2016-05-05 20:16:40] rapidtrades : the swap will be live soon
[2016-05-05 20:23:33] habibi : wildc: reading with understanding is what u need to do
[2016-05-05 20:48:01] sleger : podizzle3k: what's your problem ? "podizzle3k: sleger on the other hand......"
[2016-05-05 22:36:24] tscha : This Craig Wright guy actually (supposedly) gave lectures in Digital Forensics, Malware Analysis, Pentration Testing etc...
[2016-05-05 22:36:33] tscha : so MITM could really have been possible
[2016-05-05 22:36:46] tscha : or tampered laptop
[2016-05-05 22:59:38] tscha : call me naive, but I still think it's him
[2016-05-05 23:03:23] podizzler3000 : https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/satoshi-saga-continues-tulip-trust-trustee-expected-to-appear-by-september-says-joseph-vaughnperling-1462467803
[2016-05-05 23:03:32] podizzler3000 : this would support your theory
[2016-05-05 23:47:38] rapidtrades : settlement pump or dump? place ur bets fellas
[2016-05-06 00:08:13] ayy_lmao : settlment ump
[2016-05-06 00:14:23] sleger : tscha: http://www.drcraigwright.net/homepage.jpg
[2016-05-06 00:14:53] sleger : looks like you lost your bet although you might actually have been right indeed
[2016-05-06 00:24:15] j8 : sleger: how does it feel to be #1
[2016-05-06 00:25:26] rapidtrades : how did he losee the bet
[2016-05-06 00:25:46] uiop : <podizzler3000> https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/satoshi-saga-continues-tulip-trust-trustee-expected-to-appear-by-september-says-joseph-vaughnperling-1462467803
[2016-05-06 00:25:56] uiop : ^ the interviewee sounds full of himself
[2016-05-06 00:26:09] uiop : i don't see what's so complicated about this
[2016-05-06 00:26:24] uiop : "satoshi" does NOT need to move any coins to prove he holds the key
[2016-05-06 00:27:17] uiop : all he (or she) needs to do is SIGN a message THAT COULDNT HAVE EXISTED BEFORE AND BEEN SIGNED BEFORE AND THE SIGNATURE OF WHICH IS PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE
[2016-05-06 00:27:44] uiop : a message like "<<describe some world event that happened yesterday in a sentence>>"
[2016-05-06 00:27:57] uiop : then publish the ONE LINE signature AS TEXT in PUBLIC
[2016-05-06 00:28:13] uiop : then everyone can simply verify the signature using his public key
[2016-05-06 00:28:18] uiop : using whatever software they want
[2016-05-06 00:28:37] uiop : </uiop's-rant-in-public-maybe-someone-will-see>
[2016-05-06 00:28:55] rapidtrades : NOONE CARES
[2016-05-06 00:29:17] rapidtrades : go spam on r/bitcoin u lil bitch
[2016-05-06 00:29:26] uiop : rapidtrades: r u grumpy because you got some banga today?
[2016-05-06 00:29:56] uiop : rapidtrades: were you trading too SLOWLY or too RAPIDLY????
[2016-05-06 00:30:10] rapidtrades : how is this useful for trading? we're here to make $$$
[2016-05-06 00:30:23] uiop : do you turn LEFT when you mean to turn RIGHT someTIMES?
[2016-05-06 00:30:36] rapidtrades : i turn wright allright
[2016-05-06 00:31:16] uiop : rapidtrades: “When the wise man points at the Moon, the idiot looks at the finger.”
[2016-05-06 00:31:45] uiop : not to presume i'm wise, but the quote fit too well
[2016-05-06 00:42:08] viptrader : guys, what happens when settlement? trade closed?
[2016-05-06 00:45:08] BitMEX_Arthur : viptrader: You position does not exist any longer
[2016-05-06 00:45:29] BitMEX_Arthur : However, today we will launch our first product that never settles, `ETHXBT`
[2016-05-06 00:45:38] BitMEX_Arthur : so you will never have to worry about settlement again
[2016-05-06 00:47:41] rapidtrades : greaaaat
[2016-05-06 00:47:47] rapidtrades : here goes nothing i guess
[2016-05-06 00:48:35] uiop : BitMEX_Arthur, BitMEX_Wally, BitMEX_Sam: the ETHXBT spot-fx-swap-simulating contract is a great idea, good job
[2016-05-06 00:49:00] uiop : BitMEX_* if i missed some
[2016-05-06 00:49:09] BitMEX_Sam : uiop: Thanks
[2016-05-06 00:51:42] uiop : i'm curious to see what impact it'll have on the ETH futs term structure through arbitrage
[2016-05-06 00:53:07] uiop : it seems like (at least theoretically) it'll make the ETH futs basis mirror the poloniex swap rate differential
[2016-05-06 00:53:10] uiop : ?
[2016-05-06 00:53:53] BitMEX_Sam : We won't be running ETHXBT & the ETH futs at the same time
[2016-05-06 00:54:00] uiop : ohh
[2016-05-06 00:54:10] BitMEX_Arthur : The goal is to concentrate liquidity
[2016-05-06 00:54:14] uiop : ah gotcha
[2016-05-06 02:03:46] zanza : I am very curious to see how this works out!
[2016-05-06 04:13:03] alchemist : How're people making the most money on this exchange, speculation or cash or carry, market making or otherwise?
[2016-05-06 04:13:28] alchemist : If I was to get good at one thing first. What should I focus in first?
[2016-05-06 04:30:21] uiop : alchemist: whichever one you think you'll have the most edge in
[2016-05-06 04:31:25] j8 : also depends on what size you're trading, and what kind of risk you want to take on
[2016-05-06 04:45:57] arbitrage001 : j8: you are bitcoin full timer?
[2016-05-06 04:46:12] arbitrage001 : seen you here everytime i am on
[2016-05-06 04:46:31] j8 : yeah trading full time for the past year or so
[2016-05-06 04:46:37] arbitrage001 : nice
[2016-05-06 04:46:40] arbitrage001 : me too
[2016-05-06 04:46:47] arbitrage001 : but longer
[2016-05-06 04:46:54] arbitrage001 : last year was bad
[2016-05-06 04:48:04] j8 : yeah i was trading and doing other things for a couple years
[2016-05-06 04:48:09] arbitrage001 : crazy wild ride from 200 to 1200 then bback to 300
[2016-05-06 04:49:18] arbitrage001 : is trading the only viable thing to do ?
[2016-05-06 04:49:29] arbitrage001 : mining no longer profitable
[2016-05-06 04:49:39] arbitrage001 : or has mining ever been profitable
[2016-05-06 04:50:07] j8 : it still is, it's just a high entry cost
[2016-05-06 04:50:57] miramm1115 : arbitrage001: there is always an option to get a real job ;-)
[2016-05-06 04:51:28] arbitrage001 : miramm1115: real job doesnt pay much
[2016-05-06 04:52:01] miramm1115 : depends on a job I guess
[2016-05-06 04:52:04] arbitrage001 : unless you are in transnational company high
[2016-05-06 04:52:12] arbitrage001 : high management position
[2016-05-06 04:53:31] arbitrage001 : a senior developer in silicon vally might make 150k to 200k a year
[2016-05-06 04:54:00] arbitrage001 : but after cost of living, he can barely save any money
[2016-05-06 04:54:18] arbitrage001 : better off moving to 3rd wworld country and get paid in USD
[2016-05-06 04:55:49] miramm1115 : I've been to some 3rd world countries, no thanks, I'll stay in Canada
[2016-05-06 04:56:01] j8 : bitcoin is the best way to save. you're never tempted to spend it anywhere
[2016-05-06 04:56:21] j8 : because no one accepts it :)
[2016-05-06 04:56:27] arbitrage001 : i am in 3rd world
[2016-05-06 04:56:46] miramm1115 : j8: nice one
[2016-05-06 04:56:46] arbitrage001 : wont bbelieve what people do for nickle and dime here
[2016-05-06 04:57:06] arbitrage001 : so, anyone earning usd or bitcoin live like a king
[2016-05-06 04:57:20] arbitrage001 : even if it is relatively low income
[2016-05-06 04:58:11] miramm1115 : yeah, I can imagine
[2016-05-06 05:02:04] miramm1115 : j8: I saw you mentioned something about sleger being #1 on the leaderboard?
[2016-05-06 05:02:31] miramm1115 : did he say something like that?
[2016-05-06 05:02:55] j8 : no, i was just testing his reaction :) didn't get anything out of him
[2016-05-06 05:03:13] miramm1115 : ah, ok
[2016-05-06 05:03:55] j8 : it is him though, lets face it
[2016-05-06 05:04:20] miramm1115 : idk, he's supposed to have higher ROE
[2016-05-06 05:04:44] j8 : yeah, the formula is dumb though, mine's off by a factor of 5 or more
[2016-05-06 05:04:52] arbitrage001 : suprise not seein him up there also
[2016-05-06 05:05:13] arbitrage001 : but pure btc earning isnt accurate measure
[2016-05-06 05:05:26] arbitrage001 : some people doing arbitrage across many platforms
[2016-05-06 05:05:48] arbitrage001 : lose here, gain somewhere else and vice versa
[2016-05-06 05:09:41] alchemist : j8: what do you do most
[2016-05-06 05:10:30] j8 : i make the most on long term positions on the quarterly / biquarterly
[2016-05-06 05:12:10] zanza : so 7 hours till new ETH contract?
[2016-05-06 05:12:33] zanza : how are the new fees compared to the old ones?
[2016-05-06 05:12:33] arbitrage001 : zanza: should be
[2016-05-06 05:13:16] arbitrage001 : zanza: fee should be same
[2016-05-06 05:13:27] arbitrage001 : will kknow for sure when it is live
[2016-05-06 05:13:31] zanza : I see they added 2 new headings under Fees page
[2016-05-06 05:13:32] zanza : Long Funding Fee Short Funding Fee
[2016-05-06 05:14:07] arbitrage001 : one side will need to pay interest
[2016-05-06 05:14:14] arbitrage001 : and the other side recceive
[2016-05-06 05:14:30] BitMEX_Wally : Improving the ROE formula is tricky because we don't record leverage used, just the raw executions so we have PNL
[2016-05-06 05:27:48] j8 : seems there should be a simple way to count the base equity without double counting deposits that came after withdrawals.. but i can't think of it right now
[2016-05-06 05:32:25] podizzle3k : ;amded ;ole a bpss
[2016-05-06 05:32:29] podizzle3k : whoops
[2016-05-06 05:32:32] podizzle3k : landed like a boss
[2016-05-06 05:33:26] j8 : something like: if i withdraw 10 btc this makes room for 10 btc of deposits which doesn't count toward the base equity (the denominator of the ROE formula) @BitMEX_Wally
[2016-05-06 05:43:41] QuantFocus : I like the interface, BitMEX team
[2016-05-06 06:39:36] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 50 @ 450.43
[2016-05-06 06:48:42] tscha : j8: lol @ "bitcoin is the best way to save"
[2016-05-06 07:26:18] rapidtrades : fellas?
[2016-05-06 07:29:18] rapidtrades : ok so i see Arthur says they wont be running 2 ETH contracts at the same time...just as expected
[2016-05-06 07:29:40] rapidtrades : push changes down our throat has always been this site's MO
[2016-05-06 07:37:53] BitMEX_Arthur : rapidtrades: So you would rather we split liquidity amongst two products?
[2016-05-06 07:40:52] rapidtrades : yes
[2016-05-06 07:43:23] rapidtrades : this is a very risky move imo....a major reason why i'm using this site is the quanto nature of the contracts, i suspect this is the case for a lot of ppl here
[2016-05-06 07:43:58] BitMEX_Arthur : Most traders don't understand the difference between quanto and inverse so it's a moot point
[2016-05-06 07:44:17] BitMEX_Arthur : They want liquidity and leverage, and we going to provide that
[2016-05-06 07:48:14] rapidtrades : most traders don't make u the most money :)
[2016-05-06 09:24:00] habibi : BitMEX_Arthur: some of them want smaller fees as well but what do i know :P
[2016-05-06 10:06:43] rapidtrades : tbf, as children we don't know much :)
[2016-05-06 11:27:49] podizzle3k : whats up with eth mark price
[2016-05-06 11:27:55] podizzle3k : is it in some kind of slowdown mode
[2016-05-06 11:30:23] podizzle3k : oh its in TWAT mode i see
[2016-05-06 11:30:25] podizzle3k : TWAP
[2016-05-06 11:51:49] chromaticcr1 : lol twat mode
[2016-05-06 12:00:39] migz : SO ETH x25 is gone?
[2016-05-06 12:01:04] rapidtrades : yeah RIP
[2016-05-06 12:03:32] BitMEX_Wally : migz: ETH 25x is still here: https://www.bitmex.com/app/trade/ETHXBT
[2016-05-06 12:03:37] BitMEX_Wally : It just does not expire every Friday
[2016-05-06 12:03:53] BitMEX_Wally : Instead it is marked to spot every Friday and you can withdraw the PNL
[2016-05-06 12:03:58] migz : I see. Thats why :)
[2016-05-06 12:05:09] habibi : BitMEX_Wally: any new tabs to show funding rate in positions tab?
[2016-05-06 12:05:36] BitMEX_Wally : You can see the funding rate on the contract spec: https://www.bitmex.com/app/contract/ETHXBT
[2016-05-06 12:05:50] BitMEX_Wally : Or on the fees page: https://www.bitmex.com/app/fees
[2016-05-06 12:06:03] rapidtrades : 0.1% sweet
[2016-05-06 12:06:31] BitMEX_Wally : So if you are short `ETHXBT` in 24 hours you will be paid 0.11%
[2016-05-06 12:07:15] habibi : so 0.11 btc when short is valued at 100 btc
[2016-05-06 12:07:15] BombaUcigasa : Damn, that's 11% of your margin every day
[2016-05-06 12:07:28] BitMEX_Wally : `ETHXBT` is 25x maximum
[2016-05-06 12:07:40] BombaUcigasa : Oh, right
[2016-05-06 12:08:10] BitMEX_Wally : If you are long you pay the rate
[2016-05-06 12:08:12] BombaUcigasa : So in a month or so, you swap out your whole long
[2016-05-06 12:08:20] podizzle3k : yr fkd
[2016-05-06 12:08:24] haxmb : BitMEX_Wally: why is the rest api giving empty orderbooks?
[2016-05-06 12:08:40] BitMEX_Wally : haxmb: Which symbol?
[2016-05-06 12:08:43] haxmb : did the symbol change?
[2016-05-06 12:08:44] haxmb : ETH7D
[2016-05-06 12:08:52] BitMEX_Wally : New symbol is `ETHXBT`
[2016-05-06 12:08:55] haxmb : oh shit
[2016-05-06 12:08:57] haxmb : ok
[2016-05-06 12:08:59] haxmb : any other changes?
[2016-05-06 12:09:05] BombaUcigasa : BitMEX_Wally: when will we see the XBT swap contract?
[2016-05-06 12:09:17] BitMEX_Wally : haxmb: It's gone from being a future to being a total return swap
[2016-05-06 12:09:23] BitMEX_Wally : You pay or receive funding every 24 hours.
[2016-05-06 12:09:28] BitMEX_Wally : Apart from that it's very similar
[2016-05-06 12:09:32] haxmb : Ok so no more weekly settlement
[2016-05-06 12:09:35] haxmb : but daily rebalances?
[2016-05-06 12:09:39] haxmb : (basically)
[2016-05-06 12:09:42] BitMEX_Wally : Weekly rebalance
[2016-05-06 12:09:50] haxmb : weekly rebalance, daily interest?
[2016-05-06 12:09:51] podizzle3k : weekly oh god thats gonna sting
[2016-05-06 12:10:37] BitMEX_Wally : The interest rate is taken with reference to the ETH and XBT borrow rates on Poloniex
[2016-05-06 12:10:40] haxmb : so 0.1% per day on whole position if short?
[2016-05-06 12:10:49] haxmb : 0.1089
[2016-05-06 12:10:53] BitMEX_Wally : That's the current rate
[2016-05-06 12:10:59] haxmb : ok
[2016-05-06 12:11:00] haxmb : damn son
[2016-05-06 12:11:07] BitMEX_Wally : The XBT borrow rate is quite high on Poloniex at the moment, it will come down again
[2016-05-06 12:11:12] haxmb : well cheers for the info
[2016-05-06 12:11:15] haxmb : great
[2016-05-06 12:11:29] podizzle3k : i miss derivatives
[2016-05-06 12:11:49] habibi : BitMEX_Wally: u promise :p?
[2016-05-06 12:12:35] podizzle3k : can u tell im long eth
[2016-05-06 12:15:43] rapidtrades : bet on falling eth,...u'll make money while u make money
[2016-05-06 12:15:52] zanza : `Perpetual Swap`
[2016-05-06 12:16:02] zanza : `Get Hyped`
[2016-05-06 12:16:06] podizzle3k : rapidtrades you have to be all over this .1%
[2016-05-06 12:16:07] BitMEX_Wally : :)
[2016-05-06 12:16:10] podizzle3k : youre the premium king
[2016-05-06 12:16:17] rapidtrades : the future is here
[2016-05-06 12:16:19] podizzle3k : just totally ignore trends and go with the premium
[2016-05-06 12:16:39] podizzle3k : price could move 5% up but fk it, its all about that .1% baby
[2016-05-06 12:16:49] rapidtrades : 0.1% is pretty sweet
[2016-05-06 12:16:59] podizzle3k : yeah thats some good arbitrage right
[2016-05-06 12:17:38] podizzle3k : ;)
[2016-05-06 12:17:48] zanza : so I could park my BTC here for .1% per day?
[2016-05-06 12:18:04] rapidtrades : yes, yes u can :)
[2016-05-06 12:18:30] zanza : that seems too good to be true :)
[2016-05-06 12:18:48] rapidtrades : wally says it wont last
[2016-05-06 12:19:04] rapidtrades : but today we celebrate
[2016-05-06 12:19:07] zanza : i see
[2016-05-06 12:19:12] zanza : it changes everyday
[2016-05-06 12:19:17] podizzle3k : and tonight we dine in hell
[2016-05-06 12:19:26] podizzle3k : sorry that just felt appropriate
[2016-05-06 12:19:46] trestres : BitMEX_Wally: 0.1% was yesterday on POLO the average or the weighed average?
[2016-05-06 12:19:54] zanza : so is .1% the Polinex rate?
[2016-05-06 12:20:04] zanza : ^ good quest
[2016-05-06 12:20:15] BitMEX_Wally : 0.11% was the average over the last 24 hours
[2016-05-06 12:20:27] BitMEX_Wally : We take a 24 TWAP snap every day at 12:00 UTC
[2016-05-06 12:20:38] trestres : so the average... correct?
[2016-05-06 12:20:38] BitMEX_Wally : Then we apply that funding rate 24 hours later
[2016-05-06 12:20:45] BitMEX_Wally : Time weighted average, yes
[2016-05-06 12:21:10] zanza : so, does BitMEX have an account on Polinex and actually execute trades?
[2016-05-06 12:21:11] trestres : time weighted... not volume... correct?
[2016-05-06 12:21:51] zanza : time yes
[2016-05-06 12:22:06] trestres : ok... thank you
[2016-05-06 12:23:35] BitMEX_Wally : zanza: BitMEX does not trade
[2016-05-06 12:23:55] habibi : BitMEX_Wally: are u about to add new volatile coins? not another factom but for example digix dao?
[2016-05-06 12:24:00] zanza : it seems like behind the scenes there has to be a way to back it up tho since its not futures?
[2016-05-06 12:24:18] BitMEX_Wally : zanza: It's long vs short, same as futures
[2016-05-06 12:24:32] zanza : but no counterparty here?
[2016-05-06 12:24:54] zanza : oh, there is counterparty
[2016-05-06 12:24:57] zanza : i see
[2016-05-06 12:25:11] BitMEX_Wally : BitMEX is the central counterparty for clearing, we just move the money between the long and short counterparties
[2016-05-06 12:25:23] zanza : got it, thanks
[2016-05-06 12:28:05] zanza : so, if you close your position before 12 UTC, u pay 0 fee
[2016-05-06 12:28:18] BitMEX_Wally : zanza: Correct
[2016-05-06 12:28:33] zanza : i am interested to see how this owrks out
[2016-05-06 12:28:38] BitMEX_Wally : So are we
[2016-05-06 12:28:42] zanza : :):):)
[2016-05-06 12:29:22] zanza : people like simple and leverage, this is both
[2016-05-06 12:32:01] zanza : anything think its a strange coincidence that BitMEX released perpetual contract, the same time Craig Wright disappears??
[2016-05-06 12:33:06] zanza : ▲
[2016-05-06 12:34:22] habibi : yep, also last trade on eth was made at 54 second of minute -> Satoshi is father --> Father is Arthur --> everything is clear.
[2016-05-06 12:34:47] BitMEX_Sam : Don't tell anyone
[2016-05-06 12:35:11] rapidtrades : stop sucking bitmex ass for 0.1% guys
[2016-05-06 12:35:38] donchard : BitMEX_Sam: when is xbt swaps coiming
[2016-05-06 12:35:53] BitMEX_Sam : Once we've fully evaluated ETHXBT
[2016-05-06 12:36:23] zanza : its a live Beta kind of
[2016-05-06 12:37:18] donchard : BitMEX_Sam: so all quanto is going
[2016-05-06 12:37:37] BitMEX_Sam : The long-dated XBT futures will remain for the time being
[2016-05-06 12:38:14] rapidtrades : RIP quanto :(
[2016-05-06 12:38:38] donchard : till it expires in septmber
[2016-05-06 12:41:06] donchard : BitMEX_Sam: will xbt swaps be quanto
[2016-05-06 12:41:25] habibi : donchard: u in 1 % of traders that know what is quanto, good for u
[2016-05-06 12:41:34] BitMEX_Sam : We are still evaluating but they likely will be $1 inverse conts
[2016-05-06 12:55:44] subjective : no one sell ETH
[2016-05-06 13:01:50] habibi : BitMEX_Sam: could u add to calculator rate calc?
[2016-05-06 13:07:23] rapidtrades : fimex fomos about everything, eth, btc
[2016-05-06 13:07:31] rapidtrades : a bunch of retards
[2016-05-06 13:22:06] Patryn : Question: My entry price in XBTU16 is $581. Market price, $561. My unrealized PNL is in the negative... a $20 dip in my favour isn't enough to generate a profit?
[2016-05-06 13:23:03] BitMEX_Sam : Patryn: There was a rebalance just over an hour ago, so your unrealised profit went into the realised column
[2016-05-06 13:23:29] BitMEX_Sam : Your unrealised profit is based on the mark price movements since 12 UTC (the last 80 minutes)
[2016-05-06 13:24:04] Patryn : Gotcha, thanks.
[2016-05-06 13:24:15] BitMEX_Sam : habibi: Rate calc sounds good, will add it to my list
[2016-05-06 13:24:24] BitMEX_Sam : Can do simple daily compounding interest
[2016-05-06 13:24:43] BitMEX_Sam : The rate changes pretty frequently though, so not sure how useful it will be, but it's something
[2016-05-06 13:26:59] BitMEX_Sam : Rather, it would not compound because your position doesn't get larger/smaller due to the interest - so it's a very simple calc
[2016-05-06 13:27:33] rapidtrades : ur position got larger/smaller with quanto :(
[2016-05-06 13:27:49] rapidtrades : RIP quanto, you'll be missed
[2016-05-06 13:28:20] BitMEX_Sam : That's not how it works
[2016-05-06 13:40:11] BitMEX_Wally : rapidtrades: Was ETH7D a quanto contract?
[2016-05-06 13:41:15] podizzle3k : so can we close our ETH long before a certain time to avoid lending fees?
[2016-05-06 13:42:03] zanza : quiz time
[2016-05-06 13:42:32] BitMEX_Sam : podizzle3k: Yes, fees are charged/received at 12 UTC
[2016-05-06 13:42:40] podizzle3k : interesting
[2016-05-06 13:42:46] podizzle3k : polo has the same time?
[2016-05-06 13:49:35] BitMEX_Sam : I believe it's hourly on polo, although their documentation does not clearly say
[2016-05-06 13:50:39] podizzle3k : so i wonder if we will see people dumping to avoid the fees
[2016-05-06 13:51:59] BitMEX_Sam : Note that the mark price builds in decay from the lending rate, so it will trade with an decreasing amount of basis as the funding event draws nearer
[2016-05-06 13:52:18] BitMEX_Sam : This means it will trade very smoothly around the funding event
[2016-05-06 13:54:44] j8 : it'll probably be smaller than the spread and you'll barely notice anyway
[2016-05-06 13:56:03] BitMEX_Sam : That's likely true. But this decay helps quite a bit in terms of smoothing the value of positions so liquidations don't occur around funding
[2016-05-06 13:57:43] j8 : it's smooth over the course of the day but it jumps at funding time, so i don't really see that
[2016-05-06 13:59:06] BitMEX_Sam : It doesn't - at funding time, longs will pay shorts exactly the % the mark price will jump
[2016-05-06 13:59:52] j8 : right, that makes sense
[2016-05-06 14:09:47] j8 : so it seems there is a mechanism to settle your swap at the spot price for a fee, although its a bit sloppy... after the weekly rebalance, if the swap premium or discount is greater than the maintenance margin, you let yourself get liquidated
[2016-05-06 14:10:46] BitMEX_Sam : It would be highly unlikely for lending rates to be that high to begin with, but we also cap funding rates at 75% of MM just in case.
[2016-05-06 14:11:46] j8 : it's not about the funding rate, it's the case where the swap is diverging from the mark price
[2016-05-06 14:12:14] j8 : capping the funding rate could actually cause this to happen
[2016-05-06 14:13:35] BitMEX_Wally : j8: You are right that getting liquidated is one way to exit at the mark price-MM
[2016-05-06 14:13:52] BitMEX_Wally : If the fundingRate is capped then we will reduce leverage and allow the fundingRate to increase
[2016-05-06 14:15:09] j8 : the only other way being to hope the swap trades at the mark price?
[2016-05-06 14:16:17] BitMEX_Wally : The market makers we've spoken to plan to price this at spot + fundingRate*hours_til_noon
[2016-05-06 14:16:40] BitMEX_Wally : (which is the markPrice we're using)
[2016-05-06 14:16:48] j8 : of course, but that's just collective expectation
[2016-05-06 14:17:03] BitMEX_Wally : If the contract deviates too much from that then we will re-evaluate.
[2016-05-06 14:17:16] BitMEX_Wally : Either adjust the funding rate, or leverage, etc
[2016-05-06 14:17:39] arbitrage001 : spread is too wide i think
[2016-05-06 14:18:58] BitMEX_Wally : It's higher than Poloniex for size right now
[2016-05-06 14:20:01] BitMEX_Wally : *tigher
[2016-05-06 14:20:13] BitMEX_Wally : Apologies, my keyboard is not work. I meant *tighter
[2016-05-06 14:20:45] habibi : BitMEX_Wally: not really
[2016-05-06 14:22:40] BitMEX_Wally : `ETHXBT` is 1% for 1000 ETH
[2016-05-06 14:24:08] j8 : it's a unique product, i guess we'll have to see what happens.. the rate is quite high, if the carry trade looks good enough then it could get sold to a discount
[2016-05-06 14:24:54] rapidtrades : isn't the carry only 2 ticks right now? on a 18 tick spread?
[2016-05-06 14:24:58] arbitrage001 : j8: problem is rate fluctuate wildly daily
[2016-05-06 14:25:17] rapidtrades : maybe my math's off
[2016-05-06 14:25:27] j8 : no you're right
[2016-05-06 14:25:34] BitMEX_Wally : The current fundingRate times price is 0.00002 XBT
[2016-05-06 14:25:55] rapidtrades : right 2 ticks
[2016-05-06 14:28:50] BitMEX_Wally : You can see the minutely snap of the funding rate here: https://www.bitmex.com/app/index/.XBTPON
[2016-05-06 14:29:02] BitMEX_Wally : Ignore the wicks, we take a 24 hour average
[2016-05-06 14:29:22] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.bitmex.com/app/index/.ETHPON
[2016-05-06 14:32:28] j8 : so, long eth on finex, sell swap on bitmex. collect poloniex risk premium
[2016-05-06 14:33:01] j8 : somehow doesn't seem like that should be possible...
[2016-05-06 14:33:17] arbitrage001 : j8: why not possible?
[2016-05-06 14:33:24] arbitrage001 : long is paying
[2016-05-06 14:35:01] j8 : the rational thing would be that they won't pay such a high rate when there's other low rates in the market, meaning a steady downward pressure and the swap gets discounted over time
[2016-05-06 14:35:58] j8 : if the funding rate doesn't reflect reality, the swap definitely shouldn't be expected to track spot
[2016-05-06 14:36:04] arbitrage001 : j8: many market participants are rationoal
[2016-05-06 14:36:15] arbitrage001 : aren't rational
[2016-05-06 14:36:16] Samirum : What's the difference between ETH7D and ETHXBT
[2016-05-06 14:36:53] arbitrage001 : consider this: margin funding to long btc is a lot cheaper on finex
[2016-05-06 14:37:02] j8 : for sure, and with higher leverage we often see people willing to pay way higher rates
[2016-05-06 14:37:04] arbitrage001 : yet people trade here
[2016-05-06 14:37:17] BitMEX_Greg : Samirum: ETH7D was a 7day futures contract, ETHXBT is essentially a perpetual swap with no expiry
[2016-05-06 14:39:09] Samirum : BitMEX_Greg: Ok
[2016-05-06 14:39:19] j8 : arbitrage001: in the big picture of how these things will be priced, there are plenty of rational people and rational reasons for people doing irrational things
[2016-05-06 14:39:51] Samirum : BitMEX_Greg: so the ETD7D will be delisted
[2016-05-06 14:39:59] Samirum : Right?
[2016-05-06 14:40:02] arbitrage001 : j8: yes, and people who figured out the system will make profit
[2016-05-06 14:41:51] j8 : yes, and the result will be more efficient pricing.. which might not mean tracking spot
[2016-05-06 14:44:45] j8 : it won't actually diverge in the long term, because everyone gets DPE if it does
[2016-05-06 14:48:20] sleger : Why would it necessarily lead to dpe?
[2016-05-06 14:48:25] rapidtrades : were eth spreads always this high? or MM don't know how to price this yet
[2016-05-06 14:49:31] j8 : sleger: because the mark price is just spot + lending basis
[2016-05-06 14:50:15] rapidtrades : wait so when do spot and swap price converge? on friday? or never
[2016-05-06 14:50:27] j8 : so if it diverges, liquidations don't get filled, but also at rebalance time you could take a position and let it get liquidated at a profit
[2016-05-06 14:51:01] BTCDJS : sup
[2016-05-06 14:53:49] rapidtrades : when do spot and swap price converge? on friday? or never
[2016-05-06 14:54:29] arbitrage001 : rapidtrades: rate is the key
[2016-05-06 14:54:41] arbitrage001 : right now, long has to pay
[2016-05-06 14:54:42] j8 : there is a rebalance on friday at the spot price. but the swap doesn't have to converge
[2016-05-06 14:54:42] rapidtrades : support?
[2016-05-06 14:55:01] arbitrage001 : someday,, maybe short will pay
[2016-05-06 14:55:10] arbitrage001 : and price temporar conve
[2016-05-06 14:55:22] arbitrage001 : temporary converge
[2016-05-06 14:56:09] sleger : But dpe is onlyif orders dont get filled as long as the market is liquid i dont see any reason for having "necessarily " dpe . But im on thebeach right now and havent read the specs in detail yet
[2016-05-06 14:57:26] rapidtrades : im on the beach right now, sleger 2016
[2016-05-06 14:57:58] rapidtrades : taking his one day off a year from the office
[2016-05-06 14:58:10] arbitrage001 : will be hard to trade swap without expiry
[2016-05-06 14:59:32] j8 : sleger: mark price has to follow the swap market for there to be a good chance of liquidations filling. of course for eth this was never the case
[2016-05-06 15:01:00] j8 : but there is also an opportunity to profit by liquidating yourself, when the rebalance happens. if the premium is greater than the maintenance margin.
[2016-05-06 15:01:30] sleger : Margin is 2% i assume
[2016-05-06 15:01:32] rapidtrades : i don't understand what are u talking about
[2016-05-06 15:01:54] rapidtrades : on friday we rebalance at the spot price no?
[2016-05-06 15:01:54] sleger : rapidtrades: i was in miami a fee weeks ago
[2016-05-06 15:02:13] rapidtrades : greaat....2 days off in 2 months
[2016-05-06 15:03:53] j8 : rapidtrades: rebalance yes, but if there is a consistent premium then that doesn't help you get out of your position at a profit
[2016-05-06 15:05:44] sleger : j8: at some point you should be able to withdraw more pnl than margin used so you can somehow get your profit
[2016-05-06 15:06:13] sleger : so it cant diverge too much
[2016-05-06 15:06:25] rapidtrades : should we be trading at discount then? since shorts get paid
[2016-05-06 15:07:23] j8 : sleger: you wouldn't get the swap premium every week. only once
[2016-05-06 15:07:36] rapidtrades : wat
[2016-05-06 15:07:44] rapidtrades : this is blowing my mind
[2016-05-06 15:08:03] j8 : so there's the funding payment based on polo rate
[2016-05-06 15:08:47] j8 : when i saw swap premium i mean the premium the swap trades at compared to spot + funding basis
[2016-05-06 15:08:59] j8 : *say not saw
[2016-05-06 15:10:20] rapidtrades : and when do we get the carry? every day or on friday?
[2016-05-06 15:10:48] j8 : funding payment every day.
[2016-05-06 15:11:15] rapidtrades : in btc right? not that funny money eth
[2016-05-06 15:11:34] j8 : if you try to arb the swap price against spot you would get the pnl from that premium on friday. but if there's still a premium you would lose it when you close your position
[2016-05-06 15:12:34] rapidtrades : j8: stop confusing me
[2016-05-06 15:17:13] j8 : i think it should trade at a discount because of the unrealistically high rate. how big of a discount? depends how long the market expects these rate conditions will last
[2016-05-06 15:42:51] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETHXBT`: Sell 15 @ 0.02
[2016-05-06 16:49:49] Miztake : hmm
[2016-05-06 17:14:36] podizzle3k : congrats on the first ethxbt rekt
[2016-05-06 17:15:16] podizzle3k : fair price isn matching polo price atm
[2016-05-06 17:15:25] podizzle3k : are we in slowdown mode?
[2016-05-06 17:20:50] BitMEX_Wally : There is no slow down mode for `ETHXBT`, because it never settles
[2016-05-06 17:21:08] rapidtrades : well that's just great
[2016-05-06 17:21:59] rapidtrades : how many markets are u guys trading?
[2016-05-06 17:22:06] BitMEX_Wally : Price on Poloniex is 0.02140219 and we have 0.02140 plus 2 ticks as the fairPrice
[2016-05-06 17:22:19] BitMEX_Wally : i.e. 0.02142
[2016-05-06 17:22:36] rapidtrades : ticks...Wally stealing my lingo
[2016-05-06 17:23:23] podizzle3k : ah gotcha
[2016-05-06 17:23:27] podizzle3k : didnt know about the 2 ticks
[2016-05-06 17:23:46] podizzle3k : not very fair to shorters ;)
[2016-05-06 17:24:22] podizzle3k : what if somene got rekt by the 2 ticks that would be hilarious
[2016-05-06 17:24:34] podizzle3k : then the price dumped immediately after
[2016-05-06 17:24:52] rapidtrades : oh smone WILL get rekt my 2 ticks, I can tell u that for a fact
[2016-05-06 17:25:04] rapidtrades : my=by
[2016-05-06 17:25:32] BitMEX_Wally : podizzle3k: It is fair on shorters, as that basis will decay to 0 just before funding time. If you are short that is positive PNL
[2016-05-06 17:25:55] mrp1nk : podizzle3k: #toldya :-)
[2016-05-06 17:26:05] podizzle3k : mrp1nk: u were right my friend
[2016-05-06 17:26:25] mrp1nk : not saying that i knew it for sure
[2016-05-06 17:26:29] podizzle3k : although we shouldnt think in right and wrong yeah
[2016-05-06 17:26:31] BTCDJS : BitMEX_Wally: Hey wally
[2016-05-06 17:26:34] BTCDJS : sup?
[2016-05-06 17:26:47] BitMEX_Wally : BTCDJS: Heya
[2016-05-06 17:26:53] podizzle3k : a good trader just puts themselves in the best position based on previous patterns, so we'll say you did that well
[2016-05-06 17:27:47] podizzle3k : it may decay to zero at funding time but you can still get rekt by two ticks before then
[2016-05-06 17:27:51] mrp1nk : well, it still could be coincidence, but i think at least some weak hands jumped back on the train
[2016-05-06 17:28:27] podizzle3k : mrp1nk: i always defer to the okcoin futures holders. they offloaded a bunch of contracts over the last few hours
[2016-05-06 17:28:44] podizzle3k : so it appears theyve been accumulating longs over the last few days
[2016-05-06 17:28:46] rapidtrades : f*ck em
[2016-05-06 17:29:03] rapidtrades : they're weak
[2016-05-06 17:29:16] podizzle3k : physically yeah we could probably take em
[2016-05-06 17:29:27] podizzle3k : lets whoop their ass
[2016-05-06 17:30:54] podizzle3k : i heard sam knows muay thai and wally knows jiu jitsu
[2016-05-06 17:31:01] podizzle3k : and we allknow arthur is golden gloves boxer
[2016-05-06 17:31:27] podizzle3k : rapidtrade will be the guy throwing pocket sand
[2016-05-06 17:36:15] rapidtrades : anyone has average spread before vs now on ethbtc
[2016-05-06 17:41:52] BitMEX_Wally : rapidtrades: Median cash spread on ETH7D was 0.00019 over last 24 hours. Median cash spread of ETHXBT since it launched is 0.00016
[2016-05-06 17:44:56] habibi : Wally isnt it too fast to give such verdicts?