This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2015-07-16 05:36:08] j8 : right, but there's no risk for them on capped contracts, so no need to charge it.
[2015-07-16 05:43:12] BitMEX_Arthur : j8: correct
[2015-07-16 05:51:11] ksinvest : does the Hedger Fee Schedule also apply to XBT or only XBU?
[2015-07-16 05:58:14] miratrader : XBU only AFAIK
[2015-07-16 05:59:59] miratrader : XBT is 0% maker - 0.1% taker
[2015-07-16 06:00:39] BitMEX_Arthur : Hedger and Trader fee structures only apply to `XBU`
[2015-07-16 06:10:35] ksinvest : BitMEX_Arthur: do you have a 0% fee policy for designated liquidity providers?
[2015-07-16 06:17:45] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes
[2015-07-16 06:18:29] uiop : what're the requirements for a designated mm ?
[2015-07-16 06:19:06] ksinvest : BitMEX_Arthur: how much money would i need to become one?
[2015-07-16 06:19:57] BitMEX_Arthur : ksinvest: I will shoot you an email
[2015-07-16 06:20:27] ksinvest : great thanks
[2015-07-16 06:21:14] miratrader : cool, I would love to see more liquidity here
[2015-07-16 06:23:06] ksinvest : miratrader: not within the next 4 weeks, i would have to improve my bots for a "real money" scenario
[2015-07-16 06:28:27] miratrader : yeah, I understand. BitMEX is a nice platform but the orderbook is so thin compared to OKCoin or Finex. Hope the situation improves as more market makers come here. And I trust BitMEX guys so much more than OKCoin guys :-)
[2015-07-16 07:49:16] chrisxbt : Are there fees for closing contracts?
[2015-07-16 07:55:05] BitMEX_Wally : chrisxbt: If you close a position with a passive limit order you get charged the makerFee which is 0 for `XBU24H`, `BVOL24H` etc
[2015-07-16 07:55:18] BitMEX_Wally : If you wait until settlement you get charged the takerFee
[2015-07-16 07:56:06] chrisxbt : interesting
[2015-07-16 13:22:20] BitMEX_Arthur : LTC getting pumped
[2015-07-16 13:27:31] laisee : and BTC dumped?
[2015-07-16 13:28:15] BitMEX_Arthur : oops by pumped i meant dumped
[2015-07-16 13:28:17] BitMEX_Arthur : both are getting the stick
[2015-07-16 13:30:45] uiop : getting beat with the ringhand
[2015-07-16 13:40:43] horlicks_ : What order types are supported, is it just limit orders?
[2015-07-16 13:41:08] BitMEX_Arthur : yes currently just limit orders
[2015-07-16 13:41:20] BitMEX_Arthur : we have plans to introduced Stop order types in the very near future
[2015-07-16 13:44:33] horlicks_ : ok, nice
[2015-07-17 06:04:27] Pogi : Im new here how can i know may account is working
[2015-07-17 06:20:34] BitMEX_Arthur : Pogi: Hi what would you like to know?
[2015-07-17 06:21:03] BitMEX_Arthur : Please deposit Bitcoin to your `Deposit` address after 1 confirmation your account will be credited and you can begin trading.
[2015-07-17 07:13:20] Pogi : How can i make trading?
[2015-07-17 07:13:35] BitMEX_Arthur : Pogi: Have you deposited funds onto the exchange?
[2015-07-17 08:53:29] VanCleef : pogi, ganda ka ba?
[2015-07-17 09:55:04] joequant : qq. what's the site that people upload TA charts?
[2015-07-17 09:56:54] joequant : ah tradingview
[2015-07-17 12:57:26] Pogi : Yes
[2015-07-17 13:48:21] Crypt0cracy : pogi putangina?
[2015-07-17 14:44:53] VanCleef : lol this Crypt0cracy follows me everywhere
[2015-07-17 14:50:09] Pogi : Huwag! Mo akong mumurahin! Manahimik ka diyan kung hindi ka naturuan ng magandang asal ng edukasyon at magulang mo!
[2015-07-17 14:51:09] VanCleef : peste
[2015-07-17 16:57:58] goat : bfx bot gone wild, trader in comments reports the book being reported wasn't "real" - https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/3dn1tq/bfx_bot_gone_wild/
[2015-07-17 16:58:59] BitMEX_Sam : Yikes. a few weeks ago they had a db replica that was screwing up and reporting old data
[2015-07-17 17:01:37] BitMEX_Sam : looks like it's happening again?
[2015-07-17 17:04:33] goat : looks like it or something similar
[2015-07-17 17:04:55] goat : i have been trying to cancel a drk order for hours now
[2015-07-17 17:16:14] twistedline : with the current okcoin fud and bitfinex being squirrelly. It would be a prime time for your guys to run some kind of promo.
[2015-07-17 17:17:24] twistedline : unless your already seeing users flocking.
[2015-07-17 17:20:31] seaplusplus : .
[2015-07-17 17:28:39] ksinvest : what are these trades that happen now on finex? can anyone still order?
[2015-07-17 18:05:35] ksinvest : the leading Bitcoin exchange was down for 1 hour and only 9 people were tweeting about it...
[2015-07-17 18:40:30] cengel : ksinvest, if legacy finance exchanges were up 24/7 youd be seeing the same kind of problems.
[2015-07-17 18:45:19] ksinvest : cengel: that's true, but i would expect some level of transparency, at least one tweet from Bitfinex explaining that they have suspended trading and just simulating trades
[2015-07-17 19:18:26] uiop : cengel: they ("legacy") are up 24/5, 24/7 would be trivial
[2015-07-17 19:18:49] uiop : ksinvest: what do you mean simulating trades ?
[2015-07-17 20:02:03] ksinvest : uiop: trades while trading was suspended between 17:00 and 18:00 GMT today
[2015-07-17 20:02:28] chrisxbt : was it alphapoint?
[2015-07-17 20:02:47] chrisxbt : would you say it was a bad bot because it created volatility?
[2015-07-17 20:19:59] ksinvest : chrisxbt: the only info we have is in goat's reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/3dn1tq/bfx_bot_gone_wild/
[2015-07-17 20:22:28] ksinvest : nice quote from a post about another BFX issue: "I am more concerned at Bitfinex's apathy toward the matter than the matter itself." https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/3dd2x1/is_bfx_still_underpaying_swaps/
[2015-07-17 20:27:08] BitMEX_Sam : Agreed, there was a bad incident a few weeks back where they got very heated on TS about their apathy - they don't seem to have any alerting system in place, their users are the ones who tell them when books cross and the API gets down
[2015-07-17 20:27:28] BitMEX_Sam : I know for a fact this is not alphapoint, however, I believe there will be a big improvement when they flip the switch. Alphapoint does a solid product
[2015-07-17 20:44:06] ksinvest : BitMEX_Sam: is Bitfinex's tech team still only Raphael (and his wife?), he seems to be also the only one responding to mails from customers.
[2015-07-17 20:57:44] j8 : these glitches could cause real problems for `BVOL24H` especially.
[2015-07-17 21:09:31] BitMEX_Sam : j8: Yeah we're aware of the problem. Considering our options
[2015-07-17 21:09:57] BitMEX_Sam : We've been frustrated with finex's API in general, we get a lot of errors from them that require creative workarounds
[2015-07-17 21:10:52] chrisxbt : if you think it's a problem halt trading
[2015-07-17 21:11:00] chrisxbt : you have no open interest
[2015-07-17 21:13:42] j8 : it's sort of a problem all around, like if bad data was used in the settlement calculations. then after it becomes clear that those weren't real trades.
[2015-07-17 21:15:00] miratrader : ksinvest, do you know when finex's orderbooks were crossed? I was away all day and wasn't paying attention. I'll check orderbook history to see what was happening.
[2015-07-17 21:18:14] miratrader : BTW, finex's unofficial websocket orderbook stream is not reliable. It has crosses sometimes and doesn't match orderbooks you get from REST API quite often.
[2015-07-17 21:19:09] BitMEX_Sam : miratrader: Good to know
[2015-07-17 21:39:07] ksinvest : miratrader: i don't know. my bot didn't even see that there is a problem with finex. i just read goat's blog/reddit post. it's intentional that the bot does not panic in such situations but it should at least altert me next time...
[2015-07-17 21:48:33] miratrader : ksinvest, thanks. I'm looking through our logs right now, didn't see anything suspicious yet. Maybe it was only on LTC/BTC market, we don't have bots there.
[2015-07-17 22:00:00] ksinvest : miratrader: me neither, this would explain a lot
[2015-07-17 22:02:32] miratrader : yeah, I see a bunch of 502 Bad Gateway errors in the log but that happens from time to time with finex. nothing out of the ordinary.
[2015-07-17 22:10:45] ksinvest : miratrader: so you didn't order anything between 17:00 and 18:00 GMT or were you able to? i'm now thinking of frequently placing orders there just to test if they suspended trading again.
[2015-07-17 22:51:28] j8 : i just tried getting trades from the bitfinex api for the glitch period. it's not giving me anything other than the last 1000 trades.. did something change? i used to be able to get trades by timestamp
[2015-07-17 23:03:18] miratrader : ksinvest, I checked, our bots didn't try to place any orders during that time, so I'm not sure if the trading was suspended
[2015-07-17 23:14:25] miratrader : ok, I checked finex trade history in our database. There were 68 trades on BTC/USD market from 17:00 to 18:00 UTC today.
[2015-07-17 23:16:21] miratrader : It's way too little, something wasn't working properly. Normally finex has ~500 trades per hour.
[2015-07-17 23:19:21] miratrader : for comparison: today from 16:00 to 17:00 - 445 trades, from 18:00 to 19:00 - 352 trades
[2015-07-17 23:22:48] ksinvest : these trades were what i'm meant with "simulated trades" because it was actually not possible to place any new orders during this time
[2015-07-17 23:23:46] miratrader : I don't think those were 'simulated trades
[2015-07-17 23:25:33] miratrader : It looks like the server was down from time to time bc there is a bunch of trades from 17:00 to 17:03 then nothing until 17:11, bunch of trades then nothing until 17:18 and so on
[2015-07-17 23:27:57] miratrader : so they had few minutes of up time followed by 10-20 minutes of down time during that time
[2015-07-17 23:29:55] miratrader : if you want to look at the data yourself, you can email me at info@cryptoiq.io and I will send you a CSV
[2015-07-17 23:30:21] ksinvest : but why only market orders during the up time, no orders being canceled, no new limit orders in the order book? or am i missing something?
[2015-07-17 23:33:36] miratrader : one sec, let me check the orderbook history. BitMEX, is it too off-topic for this chat? Sorry if it is, I have to intention of spamming your chat box.
[2015-07-17 23:40:22] ksinvest : sent you an email...
[2015-07-17 23:46:29] miratrader : ok, orderbook was 'stuck' with no updates from 16:48 to 18:00
[2015-07-17 23:47:18] miratrader : at least that's how it looked like from the API, who knows what was going on the finex server's
[2015-07-17 23:47:49] miratrader : * server's side
[2015-07-17 23:58:50] miratrader : ksinvest, I sent you the data
[2015-07-18 00:23:10] ksinvest : miratrader: thanks a lot. the column "TradeID" is quite interesting. if i'm reading correctly there where 2684 orders registered by Bitfinex's database during this period.
[2015-07-18 00:29:00] ksinvest : sorry, 2684 *trades* not orders were registered by Bitfinex's database during this period
[2015-07-18 01:03:19] miratrader : finex's TradeID on BTC/USD are always odd numbers but not exactly sequential. Usually it's 3-4 numbers in sequence then a jump, for example: 9658839, 9658841, 9658843, 9658849, 9658851, 9658853 9658859, 9658861, 9658869...
[2015-07-18 01:05:04] miratrader : typically a 2000 range in IDs corresponds to 400-500 trades
[2015-07-18 01:06:35] ksinvest : they use TradeID for all there markets not just BTCUSD and they register every trade twice (so only 1342 trades on the whole exchange and not just BTCUSD)
[2015-07-18 01:08:19] ksinvest : there are btcusd, ltcusd, ltcbtc, drkusd and drkbtc
[2015-07-18 01:10:58] miratrader : I never paid much attention but yes, looks that way
[2015-07-18 01:13:48] miratrader : so judging by the IDs from finex database we have 1000+ trades that are in the database but were not shown through the API
[2015-07-18 01:14:17] miratrader : or they screwed up the database and had to clean the trades from it
[2015-07-18 01:14:39] ksinvest : it's hard to say. do you have or do you have an idea how to get the historical data for the other markets on bfx?
[2015-07-18 01:15:19] miratrader : we have ltc/usd and ltc/btc, I'm looking at the data right now
[2015-07-18 01:19:40] miratrader : there are several 200-300 id skips during that hour
[2015-07-18 01:21:18] miratrader : My guess would be some db problem/corruption, nothing malicious
[2015-07-18 01:56:53] ksinvest : yes, probably. still in the best case we saw a db issue followed by very bad crisis management/communication.
[2015-07-18 16:01:50] germanjew : Who provides the margin-financing for bitmex?
[2015-07-18 16:05:43] j8 : what do you mean by that? there is no lending here
[2015-07-18 16:06:48] cengel : each counterparty puts down margin to cover each side of the trade
[2015-07-18 16:23:19] germanjew : 0% Margin Used (Leveraged 0.00x)
[2015-07-18 16:23:26] germanjew : where do the extra funds come from
[2015-07-18 16:23:57] germanjew : as I understand it, when I deposit 1BTC, I will have access to more than 1BTC for trading
[2015-07-18 16:24:03] germanjew : that is, leveraging
[2015-07-18 16:32:57] BitMEX_Wally : germanjew: If you go long a future then someone else is short a future
[2015-07-18 16:33:08] BitMEX_Wally : Both parties only have to put up the initial margin
[2015-07-18 16:34:20] germanjew : ah, thanks, now cengel makes sense as well
[2015-07-18 18:36:55] uiop : germanjew: ("when I deposit 1BTC, I will have access to more than 1BTC for trading")
[2015-07-18 18:37:44] uiop : germanjew: you wont have *more* that 1 btc, you can just lose it *faster*
[2015-07-18 18:38:07] uiop : or profit
[2015-07-18 18:40:02] uiop : better way to say, you dont need to borrow anything to short because futures trades arent exchanges of ownership
[2015-07-18 18:41:20] uiop : they're entering a contract
[2015-07-18 18:41:56] uiop : and long and short is just which dotted line you sign on
[2015-07-18 21:45:10] chrisxbt : volatility is dead
[2015-07-18 21:46:11] chrisxbt : yeah futures contracts aren't backed by assets
[2015-07-18 21:46:20] chrisxbt : *that sounds weird
[2015-07-18 21:47:20] chrisxbt : but with margin trading you're guaranteed profits and it's the lenders that take the risk
[2015-07-19 08:27:58] chrisxbt : Okay shorted 2.12 let's see how horribly this goes
[2015-07-19 09:08:56] j8 : beat me to it, just logged in to see if that bid was still there.
[2015-07-19 12:49:25] j8 : selling bvol is stressful eh
[2015-07-19 12:49:42] BitMEX_Arthur : Selling vol always is
[2015-07-19 12:51:45] j8 : maybe it would be nicer on sellers if it was an inverse contract? haven't entirely thought through the implications of that
[2015-07-19 12:55:30] BitMEX_Arthur : An inverse contract how would that work?
[2015-07-19 12:55:31] j8 : i.e. one contract always worth 0.01 XBT
[2015-07-19 12:56:25] j8 : as it is, if you're short and it goes against you, your position gets bigger and bigger.
[2015-07-19 12:57:55] j8 : and with low liquidity it's hard to get out. so with just a few contracts short you could rack up a big maintenance margin if shit hits the fan.
[2015-07-19 12:58:33] BitMEX_Arthur : We will be adding fixed and cross-margin for `BVOL` shortly so that won't be much of an issue
[2015-07-19 13:01:03] j8 : nice, that will be helpful. i guess since there's already such an asymmetry for long vs short, it would just even things out a bit. probably just add confusion though.
[2015-07-19 14:00:13] chrisxbt : yeah j8
[2015-07-19 14:00:30] chrisxbt : that'd be an interesting way to structure it
[2015-07-19 14:00:44] chrisxbt : right now it goes up more than down
[2015-07-19 14:15:59] j8 : well the index would still behave that way. but the pnl would be less extreme for big moves up.
[2015-07-19 14:52:48] chrisxbt : longed 2.08
[2015-07-19 15:48:41] j8 : 2.17 here
[2015-07-19 15:49:57] j8 : sunday though so i don't have my hopes up.
[2015-07-19 15:50:41] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah vol is usually low on the weekends.
[2015-07-19 15:50:49] j8 : unless its last weekend.
[2015-07-19 16:06:21] j8 : i wonder how big the weekend / time of day effects actually are. and why. it's not like anyone's trading at their job. fiat transfers are the only real difference.
[2015-07-19 16:07:06] BitMEX_Sam : Could just be traders taking a break on the weekend to be with their family / sleep
[2015-07-19 16:12:33] j8 : yeah, maybe something to do with the timing of all the futures settlements at the end of the week too
[2015-07-19 16:13:25] j8 : settlement -> get in position -> wait until monday
[2015-07-19 16:24:32] j8 : last weekend the madness started right after okc settlement, it lasted all weekend though.
[2015-07-19 16:56:24] j8 : i think ultimately the price action is more important. strong movements don't care about weekends. doing some plotting now.
[2015-07-20 07:55:02] chrisxbt : cut loss 1.85
[2015-07-20 11:58:14] goat : BitMEX_Sam: so weird, my otp just took a few tries to get
[2015-07-20 11:58:26] goat : totally could have been my fault entering the wrong one
[2015-07-20 11:58:43] goat : just wanted to let you know in case you want to check the lgs
[2015-07-20 11:58:44] goat : logs
[2015-07-20 11:59:21] goat : it was fine the 3rd try, again, totally could have been my fault
[2015-07-20 21:00:27] simonburns77 : where in the interface do we find futures?
[2015-07-20 21:23:35] BitMEX_Sam : simonburns77: The XBU and XBT series are typical Bitcoin futures
[2015-07-20 21:23:45] BitMEX_Sam : BVOL is a more advanced contract based on valatility.
[2015-07-20 22:24:05] BitMEX_Sam : goat: Thanks for letting me know, I'll take a look. Sometimes there can be time sync issues on either end.
[2015-07-20 22:48:59] goat : worked fine that last log in
[2015-07-20 22:49:23] goat : BitMEX_Sam: thats what i was thinking, maybe i was just entering near the end of the time limit or something odd like that
[2015-07-21 07:00:20] ksinvest : how is the "open interest" being calculated?
[2015-07-21 07:05:35] BitMEX_Arthur : It is the total number of open contracts
[2015-07-21 07:05:54] BitMEX_Arthur : A buy and a sell would increase open interest by 1
[2015-07-21 07:08:30] ksinvest : my bot did all trades on XBU24H since last settlement, except for two: one had the volume of 559 and the other was 20 contracts. (579) as i do not have any open positions and open interest shows 879 - this means i did my last trade (300) with somebody else than my first trades, right?
[2015-07-21 07:11:40] ksinvest : ... so the "open interest" reveals in some situations some information about the counterparty of a trade? (if the trader does not use multiple accounts)
[2015-07-21 07:21:56] BitMEX_Wally : ksinvest: The open interest is the sum of all long positions (which is the same as the sum of short positions).
[2015-07-21 07:22:29] BitMEX_Wally : So if you increase your position and the open interest does not change that means the counterparty was closing a position
[2015-07-21 07:28:31] ksinvest : i'm trying to let my bot detect possible wash trading with observing "open interest", as this could force me into liquidation.
[2015-07-21 07:30:39] ksinvest : thanks for the answers. it seems that the circuit breaker is the only valid protection. (and not be over leveraged in relation to the circuit breaker)
[2015-07-21 07:40:44] BitMEX_Wally : Yes, wash trading between different accounts is hard to detect
[2015-07-21 07:41:26] BitMEX_Wally : For BVOL* and XBT* contracts we mark to fair price to prevent manipulation
[2015-07-21 07:47:32] ksinvest : continuous trading of bitcoin combined with 8 hour sessions make the circuit breaker a bit tricky
[2015-07-21 21:40:26] miratrader : hey ksinvest, was your XBU24H bot offline until now?
[2015-07-21 21:57:21] ksinvest : miratrader: my bot is constantly quoting with the exeptions of some minutes when spreads are too narrow - there is an other very competitive bot (the 2btc bot aka 558 or 559 bot), that sometimes stops trading for hours
[2015-07-21 22:02:06] ksinvest : miratrader: you can find all my bot's recent orders here http://pastebin.com/p4uxLVy0
[2015-07-21 22:03:55] ksinvest : (timezone is GMT+2, you will find some rejected orders with quantity 0, when prices are too competitive)
[2015-07-21 22:07:29] miratrader : nice, thanks a lot
[2015-07-21 23:24:44] ksinvest : miratrader: if you look at the volume increase of XBU24H after my pastebin was published, this might be a proof how transparency improves market quality ;)
[2015-07-21 23:26:19] miratrader : Very true :-) Those small orders was me testing. Couple big orders probably real orders from people hedging.
[2015-07-21 23:44:31] ksinvest : tgha
[2015-07-21 23:44:40] ksinvest : thanks for doing this testing
[2015-07-21 23:45:37] ksinvest : my bot almost changed its strategy to becoming a FOMO trader after your trades ;)
[2015-07-21 23:48:27] miratrader : nice :-) I'm testing how bots react to position accumulation, so I try multiple sells or buys at different prices with the bot.
[2015-07-21 23:51:11] miratrader : it's very easy to do on XBU24H because we have only 3 market maker bots as far as I can tell and you can tell which one you are trading with.
[2015-07-22 00:15:02] ksinvest : very interesting what you are testing. there is a relatively high degree of complexity behind '2 btc bot'. still i don't know if it makes more money on a lower risk level than my bot. would be very interesting to have a chat with the owner of this bot as it seems to be the most 'advanced' one.
[2015-07-22 00:32:31] miratrader : I'm not sure it's that advanced. As far as I can see it follows finex spot price with a fixed spread that tightens as we get closer to settlement. Right now it post bid/ask at about $0.4 from spot.
[2015-07-22 00:33:34] miratrader : I'm not even sure it takes into account daily volatility because we had quite a down spike but it still posts bids/asks with about the same spread.
[2015-07-22 00:35:21] miratrader : I think it adjusts offsets from spot based on position but I'm not 100% sure yet, need to do more testing.
[2015-07-22 00:44:08] ksinvest : think that it is quite sensitive to volatility because it left the market when volatility was too high. but maybe this was not an algo based decision and the owner just manually put it out of the market.
[2015-07-22 00:45:48] miratrader : not sure, I don't have that much time to play here. I think I was trading with it during the whole down spike today though.
[2015-07-22 00:46:21] miratrader : couple of my $10 trades were with your bot but I tried to trade with 2btc bot mostly
[2015-07-22 00:48:05] miratrader : it's a fun game to do by hand but I really have to write a script to make sure I trade with the right bot. Your bot always tries to be first :-)
[2015-07-22 01:09:15] ksinvest : it just wants to make a better price for you :) but for the sake of research i can convince the bot to take break. just let me know. insights are more important for me than making every trade...
[2015-07-22 01:23:45] miratrader : thanks, maybe at some point I will ask you to turn off your bot for a few hours if you don't mind. But as far as I see I won't find out much with $10 orders, I will need to deposit some coins and play with $100 orders.
[2015-07-22 01:57:45] ksinvest : one thought about volatility and market making i would be happy to get some feedback: market makers should not adjust their price to (own predictions of volatility based on) historical volatility. that would be more about volatility speculation than market making.
[2015-07-22 02:00:01] j8 : i would call that normal risk management for market makers
[2015-07-22 02:00:58] j8 : would you use bigger spreads if it was litecoin?
[2015-07-22 02:03:26] miratrader : well all our market making bots adjust spread based on volatility
[2015-07-22 02:04:33] miratrader : it's not the same as predicting volatility, you can use historic volatility on different timeframes
[2015-07-22 02:04:48] ksinvest : i don't want to make any predictions of the future. wrong predictions would be a terrible risk management. for any market i'm only interested in (near) real-time data about what the market thinks.
[2015-07-22 02:06:12] miratrader : using recent volatility to adjust spread makes a lot of sense. you can backtest on orderbook data and check yourself
[2015-07-22 02:07:54] ksinvest : so for litecoin i would use higher spreads because there are higher spreads (because of the market's prediction of volatility)
[2015-07-22 02:08:46] ksinvest : miratrader: recent volatility is better but still historical volatility.
[2015-07-22 02:09:44] j8 : its seems a bit hard to separate the two, if you use a longer timeframe you're speculating it'll stay that volatile
[2015-07-22 02:10:49] j8 : but i see your point, spreads on other markets may be the best instantaneous market prediction
[2015-07-22 02:12:55] ksinvest : we would need a highly liquid options market to get data about implied volatility but until then imho it's the most risk free strategy to just take the spreads on other markets.
[2015-07-22 02:13:50] j8 : makes sense for `XBU24H`
[2015-07-22 02:15:37] j8 : also you don't need the prediction to be perfect for risk management. you can always be conservative about it
[2015-07-22 02:26:30] ksinvest : that's true but being as competitive as possible (and only as conservative as necessary) is very important for market makers. especially for DMMs. on a lot of markets you will earn rebates (liquidity incentives) only if you are very competitive. rebates can be even more important than spreads.
[2015-07-22 03:41:41] miratrader : well generally speaking market making is not trivial esp. in volatile markets such as bitcoin. Of course it's much easier if you have DMM agreement and rebates.
[2015-07-22 03:42:39] miratrader : front running helps as well
[2015-07-22 03:45:40] miratrader : profitability also greatly depends on the order flow and order book structure on the exchange. if you take a simple fixed spread bot to a place like OKCoin it will get destroyed (speaking from experience ;-)
[2015-07-22 03:50:01] miratrader : I'm not sure why you think that you cannot make predictions in a market maker bot.
[2015-07-22 04:08:22] j8 : if you start by trying not to predict the price, then you're probably making money by predicting the volatility, on some level
[2015-07-22 04:09:42] ksinvest : well, with things like latency it's not possible to make absolutely no predictions as you always have to make assumptions about the present with data about the past.
[2015-07-22 04:10:07] ksinvest : but i have to reduce uncertainty as far as possible. i probably would be a directional trader if i thought that i can predict the market better than the market.
[2015-07-22 04:12:06] miratrader : you don't need to predict the market as in "I know what the price is going to be tomorrow". But you can build a statistical model that says something like "in the next few minutes the price will be lower than now with 60% probability" and adjust your bids/asks and position accordingly
[2015-07-22 04:12:36] miratrader : helps a lot with profitability of a market making bot
[2015-07-22 04:13:10] miratrader : you can also make similar predictions about short-term volatility
[2015-07-22 04:13:31] miratrader : even if you are wrong you are still market making but less efficiently
[2015-07-22 04:20:41] ksinvest : what is the probability that your statistical model is correct (and consequently that 60% are correct)?
[2015-07-22 04:22:58] miratrader : are you asking about specific models that we are using?
[2015-07-22 04:24:42] ksinvest : models you are using to predict volatility.
[2015-07-22 04:27:14] ksinvest : (pdf) Model Risk and Uncertainty—Illustrated with Examples from Mathematical Finance http://www.springer.com/cda/content/document/cda_downloaddocument/9783319044859-c10.pdf
[2015-07-22 04:33:24] j8 : looks like a good read. i always thought it was interesting the way most traders use bbands when the model breaks
[2015-07-22 04:36:27] miratrader : interesting. it says chapter 10. What book is it from?
[2015-07-22 04:41:47] ksinvest : Risk - A Multidisciplinary Introduction; Klüppelberg, Claudia; Straub, Daniel; Welpe, Isabell M. (Eds.); 2014
[2015-07-22 04:58:21] miratrader : thanks, looks like it's worth a read. interesting approach in '4 Dealing with Model Uncertainty'. Usually we have a set of models each with its own set of fitness test results. Worst-case scenario approach described in that chapter makes sense, we will have to try it out.
[2015-07-22 06:53:20] ksinvest : maybe this "Worst-case scenario approach" is what J8 meant with "you can always be conservative" - thanks a lot anyway, your thoughts on this help me a lot with second-order observation.
[2015-07-22 07:00:21] miratrader : you can give your algo a try on OKCoin BTC/CNY spot market. It's a good market to test market making algos: zero fees, huge volume, big volatility, lots of competing bots. Ideal for test/fail fast scenario.
[2015-07-22 07:12:08] ksinvest : i may try it, but if the former CTO says "I can confirm OKCoin runs bots on their exchanges, under instructions from Star Xu." without being successfully sued you can assume a lot of order flow toxicity there. http://www.np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/37tm1b/czs_statement_regarding_the_dispute_between/
[2015-07-22 07:13:26] ksinvest : so you have a high Probability of Informed Trading there, the natural enemy of market making.
[2015-07-22 07:17:37] miratrader : yep, that's another reason it's good for testing. If your bot does well in such hostile environment it will do even better on other exchanges. You will have to implement some defensive risk-reducing mechanisms which is always useful.
[2015-07-22 07:21:42] ksinvest : that's a good point. i will try it. but my guess is that my bot will decide not to make a single order there.
[2015-07-22 07:31:53] j8 : i ran a basic trend following bot there and it mostly worked, and eventually failed because of bad connectivity
[2015-07-22 07:32:25] BitMEX_Arthur : j8: on `XBU24H`?
[2015-07-22 07:32:47] j8 : nope, okcoin btc/cny spot
[2015-07-22 07:32:57] j8 : no connectivity problems here :)
[2015-07-22 07:33:08] BitMEX_Arthur : oh i read that as convexity
[2015-07-22 07:33:11] BitMEX_Arthur : now i understand
[2015-07-22 07:37:31] j8 : spent way too long trying to figure out their crappy websocket
[2015-07-22 07:37:49] BitMEX_Arthur : Well I hope you can shift some of that energy our way :)
[2015-07-22 07:38:14] j8 : yeah i've gone through most of the api, i like it a lot
[2015-07-22 07:41:07] miratrader : ksinvest, yes, spreads are super tight on OKCoin but you don't have to be top bid/ask. You can be 10-20 ticks behind and still get filled all the time.
[2015-07-22 07:42:42] miratrader : j8, yeah, OKCoin websocket is crappy especially if you don't host your bot in China. We use FIX+websocket+REST for reliability.
[2015-07-22 07:43:31] miratrader : I really hope people will migrate from OKCoin to BitMEX
[2015-07-22 07:43:49] BitMEX_Arthur : We will be dramatically increasing leverage next week on all `XBT` series
[2015-07-22 07:43:59] BitMEX_Arthur : so look out for the announcement early next week
[2015-07-22 07:44:05] BitMEX_Arthur : that should help turn the tide
[2015-07-22 07:44:24] miratrader : oh, nice
[2015-07-22 07:45:25] j8 : trigger limit orders coming soon?
[2015-07-22 07:45:43] BitMEX_Arthur : advanced order types are next on the list
[2015-07-22 07:46:04] BitMEX_Arthur : we are redesigning the UI to make it simpler and easier for people to use
[2015-07-22 07:46:13] BitMEX_Arthur : and then we will incorporate more advanced order types
[2015-07-22 20:14:52] j8 : BitMEX_Arthur: any chance the taker fee will be reduced when higher leverage is added? 0.1% is a lot at 20x
[2015-07-22 20:15:18] BitMEX_Sam : j8: There will be some changes, yes
[2015-07-22 20:15:42] j8 : good to hear
[2015-07-22 20:19:58] ksinvest : BitMEX_Sam: how long in advance will we be notified about new order types (will you also inform via api about changes)? new order types add some uncertain amount of uncertainty for my bot...
[2015-07-22 20:21:00] BitMEX_Sam : ksinvest: We'll send out emails announcing any changes
[2015-07-22 20:21:24] BitMEX_Sam : I can't say exactly how far in advance but it should be at least 5 days
[2015-07-22 20:21:43] BitMEX_Sam : Breaking changes are very unlikely
[2015-07-22 20:28:51] ksinvest : BitMEX_Sam: ok, thanks, 5 days should be enough. would be great if you could later also alert via API any changes (not only fees): like: "there will be a change in our TOS on $timestamp, please check your email", so people who run bots don't have to set up an extra process for checking emails manually every x days.
[2015-07-22 20:29:39] BitMEX_Sam : That would be interesting. We have a notifications endpoint that fires out the websocket, I could fire any update notifications out of it
[2015-07-22 20:30:36] BitMEX_Sam : Subscribe to `"publicNotifications"` and you'll get them
[2015-07-22 20:31:17] ksinvest : ah, perfect. thanks!
[2015-07-22 20:31:32] ksinvest : something completely different: are you hosted on eu-west-1a, 1b or 1c?
[2015-07-22 20:31:40] j8 : there's the welcome message also, which gets sent by default. might be a good place for critical notices
[2015-07-22 20:32:28] BitMEX_Sam : ksinvest: We're redundant across them
[2015-07-22 20:32:47] BitMEX_Sam : You should get best results in 1c
[2015-07-22 20:33:04] BitMEX_Sam : j8: That's a good idea as well.
[2015-07-22 20:38:24] ksinvest : BitMEX_Sam: thanks
[2015-07-23 01:15:44] ksinvest : current ping from my bot's server to BitMEX 166 ms (server in the US), ping from a free tier EC2 micro instance on eu-west-1b: less than 0.9 ms
[2015-07-23 01:16:59] ksinvest : BitMEX seems to be the first exchange in the world that offers free "colocation", very nice :)
[2015-07-23 01:25:12] j8 : bring on the hft
[2015-07-23 01:35:17] ksinvest : j8: my bot is not good enough now that this latency would matter and we are still depend on bitfinex's unreliable api. but in the long run this fact should attract people running liquidity providing bots to come here.
[2015-07-23 01:53:25] horlicks_ : What are the latencies like on bitmex? I know a load of exchanges and brokers quote millisecond order confirms, then as soon as there's any load the latencies shoot up (which is when you actually care)
[2015-07-23 02:11:06] ksinvest : horlicks_: good point. i have never experienced any load/order queue issues on BitMEX. we will only know once there was a very high load situation. the scalability concept of BitMEX seems to be very solid though.
[2015-07-23 02:15:03] ksinvest : horlicks_: and you might experience other situations like this on other exchanges: "Bitfinex did was they introduced something they now refer to as speed bumps. (...) can also be considered as borderline market manipulation from the exchange side" http://www.matlabtrading.net/main/2014/08/16/follow-bitcoin-flash-crash-august-2014-and-the-importance-of-transparency/
[2015-07-23 02:20:27] ksinvest : it's psychologically interesting that many people do not honor BitMEX's transparency, they seem to prefer it when complexity is hidden.
[2015-07-23 02:20:50] ksinvest : "I don't want to trade on BitMEX because I don't understand their contracts" and then they run to an exchange that doesn't even give you the required information to be able to understand the instruments.
[2015-07-23 02:22:39] horlicks_ : I agree, it's bizarre!
[2015-07-23 02:23:08] horlicks_ : Interesting link too, thanks
[2015-07-23 02:30:39] gustavo7 : hi, noob question but how do i set a stop loss?
[2015-07-23 02:35:38] horlicks_ : gustavo7: Only limit orders for now, stops coming soon apparently
[2015-07-23 02:49:58] ksinvest : gustavo7: stop loss orders may let you sleep better but i wouldn't recommend them for illiquid markets like bitcoin at all.
[2015-07-23 02:51:26] ksinvest : "In certain trading conditions, especially during times of high market volatility or illiquidity, it is possible for a stop loss order to experience slippage or for it to not be executed at all." http://bit.ly/1g74iSO
[2015-07-23 03:12:18] ksinvest : in highly liquid markets you could in theory beat market maker bots with a stop loss order because 1. the order should come directly from the exchange 2. your order is among the first in the queue
[2015-07-23 03:16:50] ksinvest : but only in theory. in reality there are conflicts of interests between liquidity providers and exchanges. they will let their friends "jump the queue" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u5g0VPMH2s
[2015-07-23 15:53:33] cengel : is any support here i can pm IRC ?
[2015-07-23 15:54:27] cengel : you can /whois me to verify my IP for 2FA reset
[2015-07-23 15:55:31] STRML : Hey cengel
[2015-07-23 15:55:42] STRML : Let's take care of that. Check your email in just a moment
[2015-07-23 15:55:49] cengel : Thank you sir
[2015-07-23 20:49:05] rhk : i'm buying dec15 on icbit at $10 over bitmex price.. free arb if you want it
[2015-07-23 21:50:06] STRML : That's a really healthy arb
[2015-07-23 21:59:23] BitMEX_Sam : There's a big buy at 295 while we're sitting at about 280
[2015-07-24 04:17:06] cengel : in order to fully do arb out to Dec though does that mean u have to tie up your capital until settlement?
[2015-07-24 04:17:38] cengel : maybe i need to rewatch Arthur's arb hangout
[2015-07-24 04:17:44] BitMEX_Arthur : You need to tie up the physical Bitcoin until settlement
[2015-07-24 04:17:52] BitMEX_Arthur : say i do cash and carry on 100 Bitcoin
[2015-07-24 04:18:10] BitMEX_Arthur : I can't liquidate those 100 Bitcoin for USD until December
[2015-07-24 04:18:29] BitMEX_Arthur : any Bitcoin in excess of my margin requirement at BitMEX, I can lend out
[2015-07-24 04:22:22] BitMEX_Arthur : if you arb the `XBT` series, you need to have extra USD on hand to handle the negative gamma
[2015-07-24 04:22:43] BitMEX_Arthur : cause you will need to buy and sell bitcoin to maintain ur hedge perfectly
[2015-07-24 04:23:02] BitMEX_Arthur : but that's not necessary you could play it as a straight vol play, and close the position if the price moved outside of the profitable bounds
[2015-07-24 04:28:10] cengel : chat in web app is not working for some reason, Arthur , the arb looks a lot less attractive even in the ICBit differential if one has to tie up coin for 6 months to get a $10 rip
[2015-07-24 04:29:19] cengel : as one must put down the margin for the buy and the sell, id have to work out specific number but im curious what rhk's pnl looks like
[2015-07-24 04:42:54] BitMEX_Arthur : Test
[2015-07-24 04:43:05] BitMEX_Arthur : Test
[2015-07-24 04:43:21] BitMEX_Arthur : Future to future arb has better ROE
[2015-07-24 04:43:26] BitMEX_Arthur : say BMEX vs. ICBIT
[2015-07-24 04:43:32] BitMEX_Arthur : Assume you put up 20% margin on each side
[2015-07-24 04:43:48] BitMEX_Arthur : 40% total, you get 2.5x more return on any arb
[2015-07-24 04:44:21] BitMEX_Arthur : Even better, if you have a core long holding in Bitcoin it's free money
[2015-07-24 08:38:56] chromaticcr : every friday when okcFut settles the market seems to be F-ed by someone
[2015-07-24 08:44:03] joequant : yes. Which is why I usually rollover my futures the day before.
[2015-07-24 08:44:22] joequant : Weird things always happen when the futures settle.
[2015-07-24 08:46:22] BitMEX_Arthur : Some market maker must have a big delta hedge
[2015-07-24 12:18:14] chrisxbt : holy woah xbt went to 308
[2015-07-24 12:24:13] goat : chrisxbt: lol shit
[2015-07-24 12:24:18] goat : wish i had some asks placed
[2015-07-24 12:24:39] goat : i have july, sept and dec contracts
[2015-07-24 12:26:39] gustavo7 : you think it happens again? ;)
[2015-07-24 12:31:38] ksinvest : how should i tell my bot that "selling low, buying high" might not be the best strategy? http://pastebin.com/3ab2T0tH
[2015-07-24 12:32:11] goat : chrisxbt: WOW, july really had a hefty premium
[2015-07-24 12:32:16] goat : just looked at the other expirations
[2015-07-24 12:34:03] gustavo7 : people are unreasonably bullish >_>
[2015-07-24 12:38:25] goat : thats fine with me
[2015-07-24 14:24:46] twistedline : http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=%5ENYXBT
[2015-07-24 14:30:38] BitMEX_Sam : cengel: Thanks, chat was being incorrectly throttled on one of our load balancers, fixed the issue
[2015-07-24 14:30:54] BitMEX_Sam : re: XBT premium, lots of optimism here
[2015-07-24 14:45:21] twistedline : not much on XBUZ15 the Bid: 286.4 Ask: 289.8 market price is 279.38
[2015-07-24 14:47:17] BitMEX_Sam : It's understandable that XBT would trade above XBU because of the higher upside
[2015-07-24 15:58:10] ksinvest : BitMEX_Sam: not so sure about the optimism. afaik there are only these types of liquidity providers: 1. market making, 2. scalping, 3. "fake" liquidity provision (takers who want to avoid fees), 4. spoofing
[2015-07-24 15:59:41] ksinvest : market makers do not tend to be optimists, they have a neutral opinion about the price, so be careful with following these signals
[2015-07-24 16:07:16] j8 : optimistic about the volatility then
[2015-07-24 16:07:23] BitMEX_Sam : This is true. Well, the XBT price correctly takes into account a fair cost of carry rate
[2015-07-24 16:07:30] BitMEX_Sam : e.g. if you consider finex swaps as a good daily interest rate
[2015-07-24 16:12:47] ksinvest : j8: true if market makers had open short positions and want to hedge/close them, otherwise they would just widen the spreads.
[2015-07-24 16:14:01] j8 : longer term volatility, like over the term of the contract
[2015-07-24 16:15:21] SnackyCoins : BitMEX_Sam: http://s17.postimg.org/f0u6x5vbj/Capture.png
[2015-07-24 16:15:39] SnackyCoins : also i miss the margin bars
[2015-07-24 16:16:32] BitMEX_Arthur : We felt they confused a fair amount of traders
[2015-07-24 16:16:45] BitMEX_Arthur : they are still available in your wallet history and on the advanced view
[2015-07-24 16:17:36] BitMEX_Sam : Thansk SnackyCoins,
[2015-07-24 16:17:46] BitMEX_Arthur : :)
[2015-07-24 16:17:59] BitMEX_Sam : Re: the navigation, we thought that two rows of tabs was confusing, I'm not sure if this is better but I think it does a decent job of separating the nav
[2015-07-24 16:18:55] BitMEX_Sam : I'm still trying a few things with it to put the widgets logically under a contract expiry selector
[2015-07-24 16:19:55] BitMEX_Sam : In any case for those of you who like the existing layout, it'll stay. You can switch between them in the Options panel on the top right
[2015-07-24 16:26:49] ksinvest : j8: your argument is hard to understand for someone like me who lives in his small XBU24H universe ;)
[2015-07-24 16:29:51] j8 : ksinvest: basically, buying `XBTN15` for $5 over `XBUN15` with only a week left is only worth it if the price moves a lot this week.
[2015-07-24 16:33:45] SnackyCoins : yeah honestly i am pretty attached to the current UI by this point but it was disorienting at first
[2015-07-24 16:34:51] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah that's why we're keeping it around. It does show a lot more information - advanced traders will want that
[2015-07-24 16:35:50] BitMEX_Sam : The simple UI is an exercise in trading off simplicity with utility
[2015-07-24 17:08:18] ksinvest : j8: interesting strategy. still for me this may be a mild form of "fake" liquidity provision (takers who want to avoid fees) because liquidity will vanish on market B as soon as the order on market A gets filled. (2 or even 3 orders will disappear from the book after 1 gets filled)
[2015-07-24 17:24:47] chrisxbt : BitMEX_Sam: you pinged me
[2015-07-24 17:57:24] cengel : when is the new updates pushing to live ?
[2015-07-24 18:39:13] chrisxbt : that pump up had a ton of volume
[2015-07-24 18:44:23] goat : yeah and not many moar usd swaps
[2015-07-24 19:00:46] chrisxbt : yeah it was a $10 move but it was quite slow
[2015-07-24 19:00:56] chrisxbt : Sucked that my 20x longs closed
[2015-07-24 19:01:27] miratrader : ksinvest, sorry about 'selling low, buying high', that was me ;-)
[2015-07-24 19:01:45] chrisxbt : but I was talking about XBTN
[2015-07-24 19:01:53] chrisxbt : 6k volume at fomo 305
[2015-07-24 19:04:06] miratrader : ksinvest, the risk of market making on low volume. You can lose your monthly profits in a few volatile days
[2015-07-24 19:06:05] ksinvest : miratrader: at least i know that the money is in good hands now :)
[2015-07-24 19:09:18] miratrader : ksinvest, might be a good idea to add some risk management to your bot
[2015-07-24 19:09:49] miratrader : but I don't think you can avoid such situations completely
[2015-07-24 19:10:57] ksinvest : no problem if i'm on the other side next time when volatility comes back. my business model is still as good as Lehman Brothers'...
[2015-07-24 19:11:57] miratrader : I'm sure bitcoin community will bail you up if you become too big to fall :-)
[2015-07-24 19:12:05] miratrader : * bail you out
[2015-07-24 19:17:45] ksinvest : lol - but bitcoiners are lousy taxpayers. i will only accept taxpayer's money!
[2015-07-24 20:15:55] SnackyCoins : new sesh, new margin! 8) 8) 8)
[2015-07-24 20:16:33] BitMEX_Sam : Yep, just started 16min ago.
[2015-07-24 20:38:56] ksinvest : 'XBU24H' (288.18/289.44) now slightly above 'XBUN15' (288.11/289.22)
[2015-07-24 21:27:02] miratrader : is margin increase already live?
[2015-07-24 21:39:27] micmix : ok, looks like it's not
[2015-07-24 21:43:00] miratrader : thanks micmix
[2015-07-24 21:50:36] BitMEX_Sam : Plan is Monday. We'll be issuing more details very soon
[2015-07-25 09:36:01] chromaticcr : wow 25x
[2015-07-25 09:36:36] BitMEX_Arthur : We have more goodies for you guys that will be announced on Monday
[2015-07-25 09:41:36] chromaticcr : let's see if any Chinese gamblers will come this way
[2015-07-25 09:41:58] chromaticcr : okc is more and more suspicious recently
[2015-07-25 09:42:16] BitMEX_Arthur : We will be rolling out a Chinese language version shortly
[2015-07-25 10:01:03] Scott J : got the e-mail - great news about 25x
[2015-07-25 10:01:10] Scott J : looking forward to monday
[2015-07-25 10:01:24] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes it's going a fun launch
[2015-07-25 10:02:40] Scott J : will i need to close current positions and open another to access 25x?
[2015-07-25 10:02:51] BitMEX_Arthur : no
[2015-07-25 10:02:54] Scott J : great
[2015-07-25 10:03:44] BitMEX_Arthur : any unrealised or realised profit accumulated before Monday will not be eligible for profit adjustment if there happens to be one for next week
[2015-07-25 10:55:08] BitMEX_Arthur : To clarify, you need to realise any unrealised pnl before Monday to not be subject to a possible profit adjustment
[2015-07-25 12:05:47] Scott J : BitMEX_Arthur: please can I officially request my kickback ;)
[2015-07-25 12:06:09] Scott J : https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/3ejplq/bitmex_to_offer_25x_leverage_from_monday/ctflpzg
[2015-07-25 12:07:58] BitMEX_Sam : Hah no kickbacks, sorry. Make some good trades and you'll make plenty. Also you could have put a reflink in there but I respect not giving any complainers fodder.
[2015-07-25 12:10:02] Scott J : yeah not point adding a reflink
[2015-07-25 12:10:23] Scott J : I don't understand why people would complain about it
[2015-07-25 12:10:43] Scott J : unless they are OKC shills :o
[2015-07-25 12:11:00] BitMEX_Sam : That's a whole game - there's decent money in affiliate marketing
[2015-07-25 12:11:04] Scott J : shillception
[2015-07-25 12:13:37] Scott J : I don't have the first clue about how to generate affiliate revenue
[2015-07-25 14:33:12] ksinvest : BitMEX_Sam: hi, is there any way to access more than the 100 most recent own trades in TradeHistory?
[2015-07-25 14:41:43] BitMEX_Sam : ksinvest: Not yet through the UI, but through the API you can: https://www.bitmex.com/api/explorer/#!/execution/getTradeHistory
[2015-07-25 14:42:01] BitMEX_Sam : I'm working on a paginated table widget for the history pages so you can properly go back&forth between them
[2015-07-25 14:45:33] ksinvest : thanks!
[2015-07-25 14:45:39] BitMEX_Sam : I'm seeing a few errors come through, it looks like you might have been copy/pasting from a datasource that was using curly quotes
[2015-07-25 14:46:01] BitMEX_Sam : Word/Excel does that sometimes. `”` instead of `"`
[2015-07-25 14:46:23] BitMEX_Sam : to be clear, you want regular quotes: `"`
[2015-07-25 14:59:42] miratrader : question: are XBU profits subject to DPE as well?
[2015-07-25 14:59:58] ksinvest : yes, thanks. is there no way i can just hit the REST API url via browser when already signed in? do i have to right a script with authentication?
[2015-07-25 15:01:47] ksinvest : ...do i have to *write* a script?
[2015-07-25 15:06:26] BitMEX_Arthur : miratrader: no they are not
[2015-07-25 15:34:36] miratrader : BitMEX_Arthur: good, thanks. Do I understand correctly that realized XBT profits are not available until contract settlement or weekly rebalancing?
[2015-07-25 15:39:14] BitMEX_Arthur : Correct
[2015-07-25 15:40:46] SnackyCoins : clicking a order in the orderbook fills in the quantity and price, but doesn't sum quantity of contracts in front of it
[2015-07-25 15:43:49] SnackyCoins : not sure if bug or intentional 8)
[2015-07-25 16:32:42] cengel : snacky, for me it fills the cum
[2015-07-25 16:33:20] cengel : so that the order level you click will give you order parms to lift to that point
[2015-07-25 18:11:51] chrisxbt : sum for me
[2015-07-25 18:16:40] BitMEX_Sam : SnackyCoins: It's always been the sum, are you sure that's what you were seeing?
[2015-07-25 22:33:04] miratrader : As I understand from the email XBT positions will be rebalanced weekly and will be shown with different entry price every week. Is there any way to see original entry price for the position? What about total accumulated profits for the position that's open longer than a week?
[2015-07-25 22:38:58] miratrader : example: let say I bought XBTU15 at $280 and I'm not closing the position. First week it was rebalanced at $290 and I got some realized profit. Next week it was rebalanced at $285 and I got some realized loss. And so on for several weeks. I would like to see original entry price and a sum of all realized profits for the position.
[2015-07-26 00:23:29] ksinvest : BitMEX_Arthur: my first calculations on the new XBT model: unsubsidized market making does not pay off. too much uncertainty is added which naturally leads to less liquidity. you would have to 1. open pandora's box and aggressively pay for liquidity 2. hope for liquidity from people who won't do the math.
[2015-07-26 00:53:25] goat : http://shitco.in/2015/07/25/the-wuestenrote-wusitanluo-ltc-ponzi-was-crushed/
[2015-07-26 01:14:01] ksinvest : very promising new market maker bot written by Michael Grosner https://github.com/michaelgrosner/tribeca
[2015-07-26 01:18:34] ksinvest : goat: nice blog! btw "Wuestenrot" means "red desert" in German :)
[2015-07-26 05:50:57] ksinvest : BitMEX_Sam: found your "easy-data-scripts" on github, small bug: "from accessTokenAuth import AccessTokenAuth" and "from apiKeyAuthWithExpires import APIKeyAuthWithExpires" does not correspond to file name (case sensitive), thanks for providing all these scripts!
[2015-07-26 13:57:41] BitMEX_Sam : Thanks ksinvest, updated the repo. Classic case-insensitive HFS+ issue on Mac, I usually create case-sensitive repos but forgot to in this case
[2015-07-26 15:30:58] BitMEX_Sam : goat: Great article, really fantastic
[2015-07-26 15:31:55] BitMEX_Sam : ksinvest: Re: Tribeca, when I have some more time I am planning on porting it to BitMEX, been very busy rolling out DPE though. Looks like a very nice bot
[2015-07-26 16:05:52] qwsazxcde1 : hey, just logging in and trying to learn this for when i make a switchover from okcoin
[2015-07-26 16:06:01] qwsazxcde1 : where can i see biweekly and quarterly contracts?
[2015-07-26 16:06:35] BitMEX_Arthur : On the dashboard, you select the type of contract. I suggest `XBT Quanto XBT/USD Futures`
[2015-07-26 16:06:40] BitMEX_Arthur : then you may select the expiry
[2015-07-26 16:07:01] qwsazxcde1 : whats the "quanto" part stand for?
[2015-07-26 16:07:10] BitMEX_Arthur : We have monthly (July), quarterly (September), and bi-quarterly (December)
[2015-07-26 16:07:28] BitMEX_Arthur : basically it means you make or lose Bitcoin based on the USD price of Bitcoin
[2015-07-26 16:07:31] qwsazxcde1 : gotcha, any plan for adding a biweekly?
[2015-07-26 16:07:54] qwsazxcde1 : alright, perfect, first off thanks for having this chat, and second thanks for explaining for me
[2015-07-26 16:08:09] BitMEX_Arthur : That's why we have the trollbox
[2015-07-26 16:09:18] BitMEX_Sam : Biweeklies are a possibility if the demand is there
[2015-07-26 16:10:34] qwsazxcde1 : sorry, not seeing the contract size. do my trades go through as contracts and if so whats the size of each
[2015-07-26 16:10:46] BitMEX_Sam : You can see the value of your order in the little table next to the order controls
[2015-07-26 16:10:57] BitMEX_Sam : So if you just input a quantity of `1` you can see how much that's worth
[2015-07-26 16:11:14] BitMEX_Sam : `Gross Value` is the size of the contract, the `Margin` lines are how much margin it would cost you to make that trade
[2015-07-26 16:11:36] BitMEX_Sam : There's also a `Contract Value` in the small table on the very top left widget
[2015-07-26 16:11:38] qwsazxcde1 : gotcha so trades are done in XBT where xbt is 1 of the current price? no contracts of 100$?
[2015-07-26 16:11:47] BitMEX_Sam : $100 contracts are the XBU series
[2015-07-26 16:12:14] qwsazxcde1 : any specific reason id prefer XBU to XBT ?
[2015-07-26 16:12:17] BitMEX_Sam : Quantos are actually much easier to project and understand since all PNL is linear in terms of Bitcoin. XBU contracts (OKC style) actually have some very interesting gotchas when used for price speculation
[2015-07-26 16:12:19] BitMEX_Arthur : qwsazxcde1: XBT contracts have higher leverage and are better for speculators
[2015-07-26 16:12:35] BitMEX_Arthur : ditto on what Sam said
[2015-07-26 16:13:15] qwsazxcde1 : perfect. not too mention simpler. any new traders wont have to learn how XBU's work. theres a little learning curve, so i guess this feels more like BTC and less like a contract
[2015-07-26 16:14:07] BitMEX_Sam : For instance, on an OKC (XBU) style contract, say you buy one contract at $100. This would cost one Bitcoin. Then the price doubles to $200. Most people would expect that you then have a position worth 2 Bitcoin but it's actually 1.5
[2015-07-26 16:14:47] BitMEX_Sam : XBT (quanto) contracts are much simpler to understand if you think of them purely in terms of Bitcoin.
[2015-07-26 16:15:41] BitMEX_Arthur : https://blog.bitmex.com/xbt-vs-xbu-chain/
[2015-07-26 16:15:58] BitMEX_Arthur : some bed time reading for you if you want to completely understand the difference
[2015-07-26 16:16:08] BitMEX_Sam : Hahaha some very light reading.
[2015-07-26 16:17:09] qwsazxcde1 : yeah thats exactly what im understanding. great. are you guys expecting a surge in volume tomorrow when 25x goes live?
[2015-07-26 16:17:27] BitMEX_Sam : Absolutely
[2015-07-26 16:17:28] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes
[2015-07-26 16:18:46] qwsazxcde1 : do you think enough people know?
[2015-07-26 16:19:13] BitMEX_Arthur : qwsazxcde1: A formal announcement will happen tomorrow
[2015-07-26 16:19:32] BitMEX_Arthur : That pre announcement was meant only to notify current traders of impending changes
[2015-07-26 16:20:38] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah. We wanted to announce more formally once it's actually live - so the message isn't "Come back in two days when we're ready" but instead "Come trade now"
[2015-07-26 16:20:46] qwsazxcde1 : alright alright. best of luck on the launch. i'll be trading as sure as volume comes in, im sure the teamspeak will be on board too. we all seem to like ya guys
[2015-07-26 16:21:00] BitMEX_Sam : Thanks qwsazxcde1. We enjoy hanging out on WC too
[2015-07-26 16:21:02] qwsazxcde1 : makes perfect sense
[2015-07-26 17:44:47] goat : BitMEX_Sam: haven't had any problems with otp since that one day, must have been the timing thing like you suggested
[2015-07-26 17:44:59] BitMEX_Sam : That's good
[2015-07-26 17:45:40] BitMEX_Sam : They're all time-based hash functions, usually there's a window on both sides of about a minute. It's possible (yet rare) for clocks to get more out of sync than that
[2015-07-26 18:06:44] goat : contracts didn't rise to such a high premium on last nights pump
[2015-07-26 18:06:52] goat : the other day things got out of control on XBTN
[2015-07-26 18:06:59] goat : i had a bunch of asks hoping it would happen again :D
[2015-07-26 18:08:19] BitMEX_Sam : That always killed me when those kinds of things would happen on finex or btc-e
[2015-07-26 18:08:30] BitMEX_Sam : It's always worth having some defensive low bids or high asks just in case a market goes wild
[2015-07-26 18:09:02] goat : yeah, i do that on illiquid exchanges, kraken is excellent for catching fat fingers
[2015-07-26 18:10:00] goat : hmm, idea here
[2015-07-26 18:10:19] goat : so im looking at a specific contract now, but i want to see my last fills of only that contract
[2015-07-26 18:10:28] goat : but when i click on the fills tab it shows all of my last fills
[2015-07-26 18:10:42] goat : maybe that should show only for the speciifc contract?
[2015-07-26 18:10:48] goat : i always have to go into order history
[2015-07-26 18:15:04] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, it's a tough balance because I can only fit so many tabs on that panel
[2015-07-26 18:15:19] goat : understood
[2015-07-26 18:15:58] goat : now the easiest way is to go into trade history then filter by contrac, correct?
[2015-07-26 18:16:20] BitMEX_Sam : Yep, that would be the easiest way. You can just click the contract symbol in the list
[2015-07-26 18:17:19] BitMEX_Sam : Perhaps clicking a symbol in the order list should just go there instead
[2015-07-26 18:17:26] BitMEX_Sam : Right now it switches the active contract which is perhaps not that intuitive
[2015-07-26 18:23:02] goat : hold on, going there now
[2015-07-26 18:23:28] goat : yeah, that's what i do now, click the symbol and have it folter
[2015-07-26 18:23:47] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah that's the best way.
[2015-07-26 18:24:54] goat : but you have to leave that the way it is now, if it defaulted to the active contract i think people would be confused why it wasn't showing all of their previous orders
[2015-07-26 18:25:15] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah I agree. It would have to be a separate tab
[2015-07-26 18:25:22] goat : its just an extra step for traders the way it is now, i was just thinking of a way to simplify it