This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2015-07-12 14:33:23] joequant : I'm just going long for everything.
[2015-07-12 14:33:49] joequant : The futures/exchange arb is huge but it's just too difficult to hedge.
[2015-07-12 14:34:27] joequant : I just keep running out of margin, and I gave up a few hours ago.
[2015-07-12 14:35:20] j8 : yeah it's just not the time for hedging.
[2015-07-12 14:36:03] joequant : nice arb on XBUZ15.
[2015-07-12 14:36:35] laisee : yeah, climb aboard the rocket or stay at home. No easy way to do both.
[2015-07-12 14:37:16] chrisxbt : well you can do 3x okcoin too
[2015-07-12 14:37:36] chrisxbt : $15 premium is decent interest
[2015-07-12 14:37:38] laisee : only 3x?
[2015-07-12 14:37:56] chrisxbt : you can use less if you're hedgin
[2015-07-12 14:38:05] chrisxbt : up to 20x of course
[2015-07-12 14:38:29] laisee : to match the 2 markets, I guess
[2015-07-12 14:39:20] j8 : joequant: how's that magic formula working out in practice?
[2015-07-12 14:39:44] joequant : I haven't done a detail analysis.
[2015-07-12 14:40:01] joequant : But the spread between XBT and XBU increases when you have high volatility.
[2015-07-12 14:40:12] joequant : So the arb between them is a vol play.
[2015-07-12 14:41:02] chrisxbt : yeah I was really lucky to get $303 on XBT futures
[2015-07-12 14:49:29] joequant : It looks like the rise is european driven and not china driven. A assume that lots of Greeks want to get their money out.
[2015-07-12 14:51:01] chrisxbt : that greek thing is just a narrative spun
[2015-07-12 14:51:08] chrisxbt : the greek bitcoin thing
[2015-07-12 14:55:02] joequant : I don't think that bitcoin is usable for most Greeks, but a small fraction that use it can drive up prices.
[2015-07-12 14:56:34] j8 : its a bit late for greek people to be buying, but a lot of other countries are on the brink, and with all the media about bitcoin as a safe haven, and no gold rally...
[2015-07-12 15:00:00] BitMEX_Arthur : yeah greeks cannot buy bitcoin
[2015-07-12 15:00:04] BitMEX_Arthur : however the rest of europe can wake up
[2015-07-12 15:00:17] BitMEX_Arthur : before germany crushes them as well
[2015-07-12 15:01:52] joequant : Anyone know why there isn't a gold rally?
[2015-07-12 15:01:58] joequant : I'm a bit surprised.
[2015-07-12 15:02:59] j8 : i think a lot of people are surprised, which is why the media has latched on to the bitcoin safe haven thing.
[2015-07-12 15:03:53] j8 : i don't think the gold money went to bitcoin, but that seems to be the narrative
[2015-07-12 15:13:31] BitMEX_Arthur : d-day for grexit is tomorrow
[2015-07-12 15:13:58] BitMEX_Arthur : they have 24hrs to accept the new frame work or they are finshed
[2015-07-12 15:16:05] goat : this hotel just kicked me out of the room lol
[2015-07-12 15:16:07] goat : bc i was trading
[2015-07-12 15:16:10] goat : and didnt want to leave
[2015-07-12 15:16:20] BitMEX_Arthur : what do you mean
[2015-07-12 15:16:24] chrisxbt : it's just a proposal to extend loans right?
[2015-07-12 15:16:35] goat : lol i just didnt leave when they told me to
[2015-07-12 15:16:38] chrisxbt : more loans
[2015-07-12 15:16:44] goat : and got extended check out and still didnt leave
[2015-07-12 15:16:47] BitMEX_Arthur : http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-12/eurogroup-fails-reach-deal-gives-greece-24-hours-accept-draconian-terms
[2015-07-12 15:17:16] chrisxbt : there was this good op-ed on the guardian
[2015-07-12 15:18:13] chrisxbt : It's really hard to leave a monetary union, Greece is going to have a hard time, lots of barter
[2015-07-12 15:18:52] chrisxbt : or they could still use euros?
[2015-07-12 15:19:03] BitMEX_Arthur : well they could use euro but couldn't print them
[2015-07-12 15:19:10] BitMEX_Arthur : they have to issue a new currency and devalue
[2015-07-12 15:19:40] BitMEX_Arthur : or a first step would be that the government pays all bills in drachma and taxes are due in drachma
[2015-07-12 15:20:18] BitMEX_Arthur : nationalise the banks, take the deposits and use as "hard" currency for imports
[2015-07-12 15:23:56] laisee : and print some IOU's for govt wages, pensions etc until they can import proper printing presses for Drachmas ...
[2015-07-12 15:24:23] joequant : It would be total hell, but that's why the referendum was important.
[2015-07-12 15:25:19] laisee : hmmm. politically everyone is arranging cover for the worst case.
[2015-07-12 15:25:52] BitMEX_Arthur : Germany clearly wants them out
[2015-07-12 15:27:38] laisee : agreed. its becoming quite clear they mean to show the greeks and anyone else, how bad it is not to pay your debts.
[2015-07-12 15:28:05] joequant : And funnily the US wants them in. I think the US is worried that Russia will bail out the Greeks.
[2015-07-12 15:29:06] joequant : The good news is that no one in Asia seems to care. I'm hoping that this means the markets won't tank tomorrow.
[2015-07-12 15:29:50] joequant : I'm trying to relax and not think about 9:00 AM HK time.
[2015-07-12 15:30:11] BitMEX_Arthur : what's your asian book look like
[2015-07-12 15:30:18] BitMEX_Arthur : you still short vol via short puts
[2015-07-12 15:30:32] laisee : its been coming for so long, probably zero impact on markets
[2015-07-12 15:31:40] joequant : Well, I have some short put positions that I'm trying to get out of.
[2015-07-12 15:31:48] joequant : But zero liquidity.
[2015-07-12 15:31:54] BitMEX_Arthur : buy why is that a problem, just buy spot
[2015-07-12 15:32:00] BitMEX_Arthur : earn the premium
[2015-07-12 15:32:20] joequant : The trouble is that it seems to be impossible to short stock.
[2015-07-12 15:32:44] joequant : I'm not the HK option trader in the firm. The other partner (my wife) is.
[2015-07-12 15:32:47] BitMEX_Arthur : oh yeah short puts
[2015-07-12 15:32:55] BitMEX_Arthur : yeah borrow must be impossible
[2015-07-12 15:33:04] joequant : Uh huh.
[2015-07-12 15:33:10] joequant : Got trapped.
[2015-07-12 15:33:17] BitMEX_Arthur : well are these big caps
[2015-07-12 15:33:19] BitMEX_Arthur : or small caps
[2015-07-12 15:33:32] joequant : It's a midcap software firm. Great company.
[2015-07-12 15:33:44] joequant : But their options have very little liquidity in the best of times.
[2015-07-12 15:33:56] joequant : That's how we ended up with a large exposure.
[2015-07-12 15:34:17] BitMEX_Arthur : i mean the vol skew must be massive
[2015-07-12 15:34:25] BitMEX_Arthur : can u buy the calls or just too expensive
[2015-07-12 15:34:33] joequant : No liquidity.
[2015-07-12 15:34:42] joequant : Once this is over, I'd like to start market making.
[2015-07-12 15:34:52] joequant : But that will take a few weeks of study.
[2015-07-12 15:35:40] joequant : But we've reduced our exposure so that we can survive unless things go really, really bad.
[2015-07-12 15:36:11] joequant : But it's really scary to have your portfolio lose 50% of value in 30 minutes which was what happened last week.
[2015-07-12 15:37:07] joequant : There's an off chance that this might happen again, but are positions are such that we can withstand a 50% crash.
[2015-07-12 15:37:23] joequant : Financial bungee jumping.
[2015-07-12 15:41:07] j8 : sounds exciting.
[2015-07-12 15:41:19] joequant : Too exciting.
[2015-07-12 15:41:58] joequant : I'm hoping that I've measured the bungee cords correctly, but I'd prefer not to get pushed off the cliff.
[2015-07-12 15:45:20] j8 : best of luck.
[2015-07-12 15:47:25] j8 : some interesting info on the okcoin blog regarding the ddos a couple days ago
[2015-07-12 15:49:05] BitMEX_Arthur : yeah they are paying out 2k XBT
[2015-07-12 16:02:54] jerryd : didn't china make it illegal to short stocks?
[2015-07-12 16:09:54] BitMEX_Arthur : you could never borrow stock to short it in china
[2015-07-12 16:10:06] BitMEX_Arthur : they have stopped certain people and institutions from long selling holdings
[2015-07-12 16:10:26] BitMEX_Arthur : and if they think you are manipulating the market they will come after you criminally
[2015-07-12 16:26:53] joequant : Short selling in PRC has always been highly restricted.
[2015-07-12 20:26:22] cengel : arthur, how can non-chinese trade their stocks?
[2015-07-12 23:36:28] BitMEX_Arthur : cengel: you can't really own a shares if you aren't chinese
[2015-07-12 23:44:11] chrisxbt : Can you have shares of a holding company?
[2015-07-12 23:44:41] BitMEX_Arthur : yeah that's what alibaba is but it's questionable if you actually own anything
[2015-07-12 23:44:56] BitMEX_Arthur : to own A shares is pretty much impossible unless you go via a few ETFs
[2015-07-13 02:30:40] joequant : The problem isn't the shares.
[2015-07-13 02:30:58] joequant : The problem is getting access to RMB to trade the shares.
[2015-07-13 02:31:19] joequant : I don't have a problem since I'm in Hong Kong.
[2015-07-13 02:31:52] joequant : Also Huobi has this thing where you can trade Chinese shares with bitcoin, although I haven't looked at it closely.
[2015-07-13 02:32:29] joequant : You can also get B shares and H shares and N shares.
[2015-07-13 02:33:05] joequant : Also I think it might be possible to trade A shares though HK. Interactive brokers seems to have something.
[2015-07-13 02:33:20] BitMEX_Arthur : I mean you have stock connect
[2015-07-13 02:33:24] BitMEX_Arthur : if you have HKD you can trade A shares
[2015-07-13 02:33:43] joequant : Yeah and it's easy to get HKD.
[2015-07-13 02:36:10] joequant : The Chinese government is trying to open up the market, but opening up the market has side effects.
[2015-07-13 02:36:32] joequant : One thing that I've found is that most small HK investors know what they are doing. Most small Mainland investors don't.
[2015-07-13 03:10:59] Blargwaffle : Most HKers don't shit in public, too.
[2015-07-13 04:14:18] chrisxbt : Bitmex, your fair basis for XBT could probably be adjusted a bit.
[2015-07-13 05:14:32] BitMEX_Arthur : chrisxbt: will take a look
[2015-07-13 05:15:20] chromaticcr : just a notice to everyone, okcoin is taking 1kBTC from the socialize loss fund to compensate people who lose money in the downtime on okcoin.cn
[2015-07-13 05:15:37] chromaticcr : such a dick move
[2015-07-13 05:15:59] BitMEX_Arthur : oh so that's what they did
[2015-07-13 05:16:09] BitMEX_Arthur : i thought they took 1k of retained earnings
[2015-07-13 05:16:21] chromaticcr : 1k from their pocket, 1k from the fund
[2015-07-13 05:17:35] chromaticcr : i bet they will just take it from the user's wallet next time, srsly
[2015-07-13 07:20:22] chrisxbt : srsly, what are you biatching about?
[2015-07-13 07:21:20] chrisxbt : they're compensating losers, and you're turning it into something negative
[2015-07-13 08:03:50] laisee : yeah, same as Germany and Greece ... ;-)
[2015-07-13 08:04:17] BitMEX_Arthur : lol this deal is dog shit
[2015-07-13 08:04:31] BitMEX_Arthur : if they pass this in parliament, people will be in the streets
[2015-07-13 08:05:55] chromaticcr : okcoin is dead again
[2015-07-13 08:07:35] laisee : maybe its a good deal if everyone is equally pissed off
[2015-07-13 08:07:51] chromaticcr : except StarXu
[2015-07-13 08:09:02] laisee : was referring to EURO crap-fest, but if okcoin is unhappy then it s a good start to the week ...
[2015-07-13 08:17:54] joequant : i picked the wrong time to submit my doc to immigration.
[2015-07-13 08:18:18] joequant : lost a few hundred usd, but I'll chalk it up to immigration processing fees.
[2015-07-13 08:18:25] joequant : :-)
[2015-07-13 08:18:33] joequant : was not in front of a terminal when this happened.
[2015-07-13 08:45:46] jerryd : wow. Waiting for the riots in the streets.
[2015-07-13 08:56:34] BitMEX_Arthur : yeah this deal is terrible
[2015-07-13 08:57:10] BitMEX_Arthur : parliament will pass it, but there will need to be another government formed, and there is no way the people will vote in a new party that agrees to these terms
[2015-07-13 08:57:18] BitMEX_Arthur : they bought themselves a few weeks at most
[2015-07-13 15:55:28] goat : http://shitco.in/2015/07/13/the-coming-greek-bail-ins-bitcoin-users-not-affected/
[2015-07-13 19:31:23] Swedishnut : Bought Politicians Purchase Headlines to Buy Time To Hope They Can Control. The People Will Not Be Led to Slaughter and Slavery.
[2015-07-13 19:32:12] Swedishnut : My Gut feeling. Revolt and Revolution are nigh in Greece and what a fitting place to Make current History
[2015-07-14 04:17:14] laisee : hmmm, I would always be wary of media-led impressions. probably if the EURO cash arrives in Greece and banks re-open the people will not reviolt.
[2015-07-14 04:20:29] BitMEX_Arthur : The banks will not be allowed to reopen
[2015-07-14 04:20:32] BitMEX_Arthur : even if ecb gives more support
[2015-07-14 04:20:36] BitMEX_Arthur : they would be emptied in hours
[2015-07-14 05:44:56] laisee : possibly they can increase daily ATM amounts to 100/150 Euros.
[2015-07-14 05:48:57] goat : http://shitco.in/2015/07/14/the-ltc-pump-dump-and-a-post-mortem-for-both-bulls-and-bears/
[2015-07-14 06:44:23] uiop : https://i.imgur.com/mUPwxxI.png
[2015-07-14 06:44:43] BitMEX_Arthur : lol
[2015-07-14 06:44:52] BitMEX_Arthur : Cameron in the UK says they won't contribute to the bailout
[2015-07-14 06:44:56] BitMEX_Arthur : this deal looks in trouble
[2015-07-14 06:47:51] uiop : one blurb in news ticker says tsipras "to step down" if doesnt the deal doesnt get greek parliament support
[2015-07-14 06:51:01] uiop : "resign"
[2015-07-14 08:04:08] chrisxbt : do you double count open interest?
[2015-07-14 08:26:18] BitMEX_Arthur : No
[2015-07-14 08:31:54] chrisxbt : sorry I put a negative connatation to double counting, what does open interest mean?
[2015-07-14 08:35:15] BitMEX_Arthur : The number of contracts outstanding
[2015-07-14 08:35:44] BitMEX_Arthur : If you and I trade 1 contract the open interest is 1
[2015-07-14 08:45:31] uiop : chrisxbt: open/open=+1, open/close=close/open=+0, close/close=-1
[2015-07-14 08:45:43] uiop : chrisxbt: <one party>/<the other>
[2015-07-14 09:27:01] chrisxbt : gotcha
[2015-07-14 09:54:11] uiop : http://i.imgur.com/vLhTtSL.png
[2015-07-14 12:10:46] BitMEX_Sam : uiop: Love that litecoin picture above.
[2015-07-14 12:34:04] goat : yeah, a lot of people got totally rekt
[2015-07-14 12:34:42] goat : i feel kinda bad for them, but they have to learn ig uess
[2015-07-14 12:35:31] goat : it sucks that the chinese ponzi thing was going on at the same time as the pump, i think that if people didnt have negative sentiment bc of the ponzi the market wouldnt have crashed so hard
[2015-07-14 12:36:08] Volnamege : здарова народ!!!
[2015-07-14 12:36:20] Volnamege : алло
[2015-07-14 12:37:02] Volnamege : как тут заработать бабло?
[2015-07-14 15:08:54] BitMEX_Sam : Sorry, we don't have any Russian employees, perhaps some of the users could help
[2015-07-14 15:34:50] Blargwaffle : 清昌创叮咚
[2015-07-14 15:35:07] Blargwaffle : Of course it'd be more convincing if my username was also Hanzi.
[2015-07-14 15:35:23] BitMEX_Arthur : lol
[2015-07-14 17:49:02] gmikeska07 : Heya! I have a deposit that is marked as "Completed" in the wallet history, but it isn't yet reflected in my total balance... Any ideas?
[2015-07-14 17:49:16] gmikeska07 : oh nvm it just posted... ;-)
[2015-07-14 18:05:57] BitMEX_Sam : :)
[2015-07-15 03:41:22] horlicks_ : I'm wondering if anyone's written an 'auto-hedger' type app that looks at their wallet on the blockchain and executes hedging trades when necessary. Has this been done?
[2015-07-15 03:41:42] BitMEX_Arthur : No it hasn't
[2015-07-15 03:42:00] BitMEX_Arthur : We want to work with wallet provides to come up with that kind of product in the near future
[2015-07-15 03:43:04] horlicks_ : Great, that would be a killer product
[2015-07-15 03:43:43] BitMEX_Arthur : horlicks_: how did you hear about BitMEX?
[2015-07-15 03:45:30] horlicks_ : A friend here said he watched a presentation you gave (iirc)
[2015-07-15 03:47:27] horlicks_ : We were discussing ways to protect against volatility in a bitcoin meetup and your company came up
[2015-07-15 03:51:33] BitMEX_Arthur : ah cool
[2015-07-15 06:23:10] atodorov07 : bitmex guys, just a heads up, my wallet qr is unscannable (I'm using blockchain)
[2015-07-15 06:25:43] atodorov07 : everything else is
[2015-07-15 06:25:44] atodorov07 : perfect
[2015-07-15 06:26:36] atodorov07 : I'm surprised lots of people are using shady, fake chinese gambling sites to trade , and not bitmex.
[2015-07-15 06:44:30] BitMEX_Arthur : We aim to change that in short order
[2015-07-15 09:17:25] chrisxbt : you'll be allowed to gamble at BitMEX soon too!
[2015-07-15 10:03:53] cosmossurferr : @BitMEX_Arthur Are you the owner of this platform?
[2015-07-15 10:33:24] BitMEX_Arthur : cosmossurferr: I am one of the co-founders and I am the CEO
[2015-07-15 11:31:20] goat : BitMEX_Arthur: i actually have been working on a sick business plan for fun regarding a product/service that we plan on using bitmex for the back end of (if we can move forward).
[2015-07-15 11:31:42] goat : im still speaking with my friends aka potential partners and trying to iron out some details/look into vc funding
[2015-07-15 11:31:53] BitMEX_Arthur : nice what would the product do
[2015-07-15 11:31:53] BitMEX_Arthur : ?
[2015-07-15 11:32:03] goat : who knows where it will go, i make up business plans all the time for fun lol
[2015-07-15 11:32:11] goat : i can email it to you, not saying it in public
[2015-07-15 11:32:18] goat : its actually a sick idea
[2015-07-15 11:32:18] BitMEX_Arthur : yeah shoot me a mail
[2015-07-15 11:43:19] goat : sent
[2015-07-15 11:44:18] goat : http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/2015/cr15186.pdf?hootPostID=2cd94f17236d717acd9949448d794045
[2015-07-15 12:36:29] laisee : greek debt relief already means no debt or interest payments until 2023 http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/18/eurozone-greece-esm-idUSL5N0Z41VU20150618
[2015-07-15 13:27:35] jerryd : you know that article is a month old yeah?
[2015-07-15 13:28:05] jerryd : and the IMF report published yesterday pretty much refuts that completely.
[2015-07-15 13:28:58] jerryd : http://www.cbsnews.com/news/greece-debt-deeper-imf-alexis-tsipras-revolt-over-greek-bailout-austerity/
[2015-07-15 14:59:22] laisee : details on 2 previous debt bailouts haven't changed in last month, so article still stands. IMF report seems to ignore 2 prev bailouts and NPV of debt o/s ... all the way to 2053. I wish my bank would give me such good terms ...
[2015-07-15 15:47:20] cengel : NPV adjustments arent the same as a haircut to principal...
[2015-07-15 15:47:28] cengel : not exactly a "Bailout" per se
[2015-07-15 16:18:32] laisee : amounts to the same thing, imho. there were haircuts for private debt, btw. question is: why is the IMF making so noise on this?
[2015-07-15 22:26:09] chrisxbt : oh marketmakers back on XBU
[2015-07-15 22:26:23] chrisxbt : it was a bit empty this weekend
[2015-07-15 23:40:13] j8 : `XBTN15` was trading lower than `XBUN15` for a bit just now
[2015-07-15 23:40:55] BitMEX_Arthur : The bid is quite high on `XBUN15`
[2015-07-15 23:42:04] j8 : yeah there were like 500 contracts sitting there.
[2015-07-15 23:42:43] j8 : one stubborn marker maker
[2015-07-15 23:45:26] chrisxbt : got a nice scalp, 299 -> 291.5 on XBT
[2015-07-15 23:49:21] ksinvest : i guess i'm not the only one running a buggy "research" bot here. my market maker lost all its June profits this week...
[2015-07-16 00:05:20] chrisxbt : Are you hedging?
[2015-07-16 00:05:30] chrisxbt : ksinvest:
[2015-07-16 00:12:17] ksinvest : no, the market maker i'm currently running is unhedged
[2015-07-16 00:13:26] chrisxbt : so it's more of a trading marketmaker bot
[2015-07-16 00:15:21] ksinvest : a hedged market maker would be more an arbitration strategy for me rather than a market making strategy
[2015-07-16 00:17:49] chrisxbt : ahhhh
[2015-07-16 00:18:19] chrisxbt : that makes sense
[2015-07-16 00:20:41] chrisxbt : what contracts were you on?
[2015-07-16 00:20:58] ksinvest : my bot was just too slow sometimes and did not adapt the spread to volatility fast enough....
[2015-07-16 00:21:05] ksinvest : i'm only on XBU24H
[2015-07-16 00:22:30] ksinvest : currently 250 contracts on bid and ask, still making most of the trades on XBU24H
[2015-07-16 00:23:50] BitMEX_Sam : There's a lot more liquidity on the monthlies
[2015-07-16 00:24:27] chrisxbt : well market makers make money on the spread
[2015-07-16 00:34:18] ksinvest : i will maybe switch to monthly contracts when the bot is more improved but making money is not my primary interest here. this is more research project.
[2015-07-16 00:43:05] ksinvest : i'm actually interested in regulatory aspects of "cyborg finance" (high frequency trading). my research questions is: who are the "bad robots" and who are the "good" ones.
[2015-07-16 01:20:19] chrisxbt : wow it wicked up to
[2015-07-16 01:20:23] chrisxbt : 308.5
[2015-07-16 01:20:37] chrisxbt : XBTN15
[2015-07-16 01:21:14] chrisxbt : hmm it's hard to define good and bad
[2015-07-16 01:36:26] BitMEX_Arthur : good = makes money
[2015-07-16 01:36:28] BitMEX_Arthur : bad = loses money
[2015-07-16 01:38:14] chrisxbt : hah
[2015-07-16 01:38:47] chrisxbt : though I think he's trying to address some sort of philosophical question.
[2015-07-16 01:40:49] BitMEX_Arthur : probably
[2015-07-16 01:42:41] chrisxbt : It depends whethers he's a Kant
[2015-07-16 01:54:50] chrisxbt : sucks to be you whoever had the 308.5 order. Seems like you placed a big limit and that's when the marketmaker was resetting the positions.
[2015-07-16 02:17:06] goat : i got lucky with that contract
[2015-07-16 02:17:26] goat : market maker hadn't moved bids down yet and i dumped mine into them when btc dumped
[2015-07-16 02:17:36] goat : looks like i should be able to buy them back at around the same price or cheaper if we keep dropping
[2015-07-16 02:18:26] chrisxbt : yeah I filled 3k at 299, there was a big premium
[2015-07-16 02:19:10] goat : yep, dumped everythng i had at a really good premium during that dump except the daily
[2015-07-16 02:20:37] goat : should have bought back on the dip but i needed dinner
[2015-07-16 04:26:36] ksinvest : BitMEX_Arthur: both should make money. a good bot makes prices more efficient even in high volatile situations. a bad bot e.g. exits the market when volatility gets too high and creates artificial volatility/makes prices more inefficient.
[2015-07-16 04:37:19] chrisxbt : if they make more volatility, other people can make money off of it
[2015-07-16 04:44:49] ksinvest : yes but take the 2010 NYSE Flash Crash, it can take some time until these traders enter a market
[2015-07-16 04:46:14] chrisxbt : they lost money with that
[2015-07-16 04:47:13] chrisxbt : interesting
[2015-07-16 04:47:17] chrisxbt : reading up on that
[2015-07-16 04:47:45] ksinvest : i believe that spoofing by a single trader was not the main problem of the 2010 crash. bots that could be easily reverse engineered and used as "useful idiots" were/are a problem...
[2015-07-16 04:48:55] chrisxbt : oh but idiots don't make money
[2015-07-16 04:49:03] laisee : combination of that traders spoofing and bots, maybe
[2015-07-16 04:49:16] chrisxbt : it's sort of like placing orders in front of a bot to get a better fill when they out bid you
[2015-07-16 04:49:45] laisee : if you watch a market closely you can see patterns generated by m/maker bots
[2015-07-16 04:50:47] laisee : esp if they follow a cancel/refill at higher/lower price level pattern as the market jumps.
[2015-07-16 04:51:07] ksinvest : useful-idiot-bots that are manipulated into exiting a market will not make money but they will also not lose any money in this situation (which is even more important to the owners of these bots)
[2015-07-16 04:52:23] chrisxbt : why won't they lose money from exiting a bad situation?
[2015-07-16 04:53:28] chrisxbt : also they found out the problem. Someone was making a big sell order. All he did was sell 9% of previous volume. And it was all market sells
[2015-07-16 04:53:28] laisee : as long as they can dump their position b4 other bots, Ok
[2015-07-16 04:53:39] chrisxbt : The price crashed because someone was willing to keep on market selling
[2015-07-16 04:54:05] laisee : bot selling panic
[2015-07-16 04:54:31] chrisxbt : that's the same as buying a breakout
[2015-07-16 04:55:13] laisee : bot buying panic?
[2015-07-16 04:55:22] chrisxbt : selling panic
[2015-07-16 04:55:25] chrisxbt : buying breakout up
[2015-07-16 04:55:33] laisee : sure
[2015-07-16 04:55:58] chrisxbt : and those bots will close at a profit offering liquidity up there
[2015-07-16 04:56:29] chrisxbt : really the whole problem was that someone was willing to keep market selling no matter the price
[2015-07-16 04:56:50] chrisxbt : and he paid the price for that
[2015-07-16 04:57:08] laisee : probably a bot, got fired next day ...
[2015-07-16 04:57:47] ksinvest : i didn't mean the effect of "closing positions" but of not placing any new orders anymore (exiting the market as a market maker)
[2015-07-16 04:58:36] chrisxbt : well they don't have any obligation to make markets
[2015-07-16 04:58:40] miratrader : ksinvest, are you going to keep your bot on XBU24H? If yours is the one with 200 ask @291.54, I like it a lot :-)
[2015-07-16 04:59:02] chrisxbt : lol he said he lost all the money he made last month
[2015-07-16 05:00:46] ksinvest : miratrader: my current bid and ask is 250
[2015-07-16 05:01:30] ksinvest : or better "his" bid and ask :)
[2015-07-16 05:02:22] miratrader : yeah, we had a bit of commotion on XBU24H last week. I think one or two market maker bots pulled out and the orderbook was very thin
[2015-07-16 05:03:15] miratrader : ksinvest, thanks. I like 250 bot as well but not as much as 200 bot :-)
[2015-07-16 05:05:52] ksinvest : you are welcome. i hope you didn't trade with my bot today. it was selling at 293-294 and then buying at 284-285 :)
[2015-07-16 05:10:02] ksinvest : the interesting thing about my bot is that even i don't know its maximum bid price / minimum ask price / minimum spread. this partially "blindfolded monkey behavior" is an insurance against reverse engineering that comes at a price :)
[2015-07-16 05:10:12] miratrader : no, didn't trade XBU24H last few days. I'm going to test some of our algos on XBU24H in a week or two, hope all market maker bots will still be here
[2015-07-16 05:11:07] BitMEX_Arthur : miratrader: try trading `XBTN15` as well
[2015-07-16 05:11:08] BitMEX_Arthur : a lot of action there
[2015-07-16 05:13:51] miratrader : Yes, I was looking at XBTN15 as well, will see.
[2015-07-16 05:15:25] chrisxbt : lol someone's bot, got a 305 fill
[2015-07-16 05:16:22] chrisxbt : also hopefully there's people doing arbitrage too
[2015-07-16 05:17:04] miratrader : $1.5 spread on XBTN15 :-(
[2015-07-16 05:18:13] laisee : Arthur: silly question, I know, but where does the mark price come from?
[2015-07-16 05:18:52] chrisxbt : I think that's the fair price
[2015-07-16 05:21:41] laisee : Ok. So BFX Spot(288.63) gives Mark Price of 291.65 on XBTN15.
[2015-07-16 05:23:35] j8 : the difference is the "fair basis"
[2015-07-16 05:24:26] j8 : which is set to 25% annually in this case
[2015-07-16 05:27:35] laisee : got it, thx.
[2015-07-16 05:28:25] chrisxbt : woah XBT has no insurance fee
[2015-07-16 05:29:35] j8 : for the uncapped contracts the mark price is the last traded price, though.
[2015-07-16 05:30:17] j8 : that 0.1% taker fee on XBT series does add up
[2015-07-16 05:33:31] j8 : that's like two days of insurance per trade
[2015-07-16 05:34:28] chrisxbt : yeah I know
[2015-07-16 05:34:48] j8 : i guess insurance is not necessary on capped contracts since nothing can go wrong for them.
[2015-07-16 05:34:49] chrisxbt : I thought there was no difference between maker taker
[2015-07-16 05:35:06] chrisxbt : well the insurance isn't really insurance
[2015-07-16 05:35:09] chrisxbt : it's just a fee
[2015-07-16 05:36:08] j8 : right, but there's no risk for them on capped contracts, so no need to charge it.
[2015-07-16 05:43:12] BitMEX_Arthur : j8: correct
[2015-07-16 05:51:11] ksinvest : does the Hedger Fee Schedule also apply to XBT or only XBU?
[2015-07-16 05:58:14] miratrader : XBU only AFAIK
[2015-07-16 05:59:59] miratrader : XBT is 0% maker - 0.1% taker
[2015-07-16 06:00:39] BitMEX_Arthur : Hedger and Trader fee structures only apply to `XBU`
[2015-07-16 06:10:35] ksinvest : BitMEX_Arthur: do you have a 0% fee policy for designated liquidity providers?
[2015-07-16 06:17:45] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes
[2015-07-16 06:18:29] uiop : what're the requirements for a designated mm ?
[2015-07-16 06:19:06] ksinvest : BitMEX_Arthur: how much money would i need to become one?
[2015-07-16 06:19:57] BitMEX_Arthur : ksinvest: I will shoot you an email
[2015-07-16 06:20:27] ksinvest : great thanks
[2015-07-16 06:21:14] miratrader : cool, I would love to see more liquidity here
[2015-07-16 06:23:06] ksinvest : miratrader: not within the next 4 weeks, i would have to improve my bots for a "real money" scenario
[2015-07-16 06:28:27] miratrader : yeah, I understand. BitMEX is a nice platform but the orderbook is so thin compared to OKCoin or Finex. Hope the situation improves as more market makers come here. And I trust BitMEX guys so much more than OKCoin guys :-)
[2015-07-16 07:49:16] chrisxbt : Are there fees for closing contracts?
[2015-07-16 07:55:05] BitMEX_Wally : chrisxbt: If you close a position with a passive limit order you get charged the makerFee which is 0 for `XBU24H`, `BVOL24H` etc
[2015-07-16 07:55:18] BitMEX_Wally : If you wait until settlement you get charged the takerFee
[2015-07-16 07:56:06] chrisxbt : interesting
[2015-07-16 13:22:20] BitMEX_Arthur : LTC getting pumped
[2015-07-16 13:27:31] laisee : and BTC dumped?
[2015-07-16 13:28:15] BitMEX_Arthur : oops by pumped i meant dumped
[2015-07-16 13:28:17] BitMEX_Arthur : both are getting the stick
[2015-07-16 13:30:45] uiop : getting beat with the ringhand
[2015-07-16 13:40:43] horlicks_ : What order types are supported, is it just limit orders?
[2015-07-16 13:41:08] BitMEX_Arthur : yes currently just limit orders
[2015-07-16 13:41:20] BitMEX_Arthur : we have plans to introduced Stop order types in the very near future
[2015-07-16 13:44:33] horlicks_ : ok, nice
[2015-07-17 06:04:27] Pogi : Im new here how can i know may account is working
[2015-07-17 06:20:34] BitMEX_Arthur : Pogi: Hi what would you like to know?
[2015-07-17 06:21:03] BitMEX_Arthur : Please deposit Bitcoin to your `Deposit` address after 1 confirmation your account will be credited and you can begin trading.
[2015-07-17 07:13:20] Pogi : How can i make trading?
[2015-07-17 07:13:35] BitMEX_Arthur : Pogi: Have you deposited funds onto the exchange?
[2015-07-17 08:53:29] VanCleef : pogi, ganda ka ba?
[2015-07-17 09:55:04] joequant : qq. what's the site that people upload TA charts?
[2015-07-17 09:56:54] joequant : ah tradingview
[2015-07-17 12:57:26] Pogi : Yes
[2015-07-17 13:48:21] Crypt0cracy : pogi putangina?
[2015-07-17 14:44:53] VanCleef : lol this Crypt0cracy follows me everywhere
[2015-07-17 14:50:09] Pogi : Huwag! Mo akong mumurahin! Manahimik ka diyan kung hindi ka naturuan ng magandang asal ng edukasyon at magulang mo!
[2015-07-17 14:51:09] VanCleef : peste
[2015-07-17 16:57:58] goat : bfx bot gone wild, trader in comments reports the book being reported wasn't "real" - https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/3dn1tq/bfx_bot_gone_wild/
[2015-07-17 16:58:59] BitMEX_Sam : Yikes. a few weeks ago they had a db replica that was screwing up and reporting old data
[2015-07-17 17:01:37] BitMEX_Sam : looks like it's happening again?
[2015-07-17 17:04:33] goat : looks like it or something similar
[2015-07-17 17:04:55] goat : i have been trying to cancel a drk order for hours now
[2015-07-17 17:16:14] twistedline : with the current okcoin fud and bitfinex being squirrelly. It would be a prime time for your guys to run some kind of promo.
[2015-07-17 17:17:24] twistedline : unless your already seeing users flocking.
[2015-07-17 17:20:31] seaplusplus : .
[2015-07-17 17:28:39] ksinvest : what are these trades that happen now on finex? can anyone still order?
[2015-07-17 18:05:35] ksinvest : the leading Bitcoin exchange was down for 1 hour and only 9 people were tweeting about it...
[2015-07-17 18:40:30] cengel : ksinvest, if legacy finance exchanges were up 24/7 youd be seeing the same kind of problems.
[2015-07-17 18:45:19] ksinvest : cengel: that's true, but i would expect some level of transparency, at least one tweet from Bitfinex explaining that they have suspended trading and just simulating trades
[2015-07-17 19:18:26] uiop : cengel: they ("legacy") are up 24/5, 24/7 would be trivial
[2015-07-17 19:18:49] uiop : ksinvest: what do you mean simulating trades ?
[2015-07-17 20:02:03] ksinvest : uiop: trades while trading was suspended between 17:00 and 18:00 GMT today
[2015-07-17 20:02:28] chrisxbt : was it alphapoint?
[2015-07-17 20:02:47] chrisxbt : would you say it was a bad bot because it created volatility?
[2015-07-17 20:19:59] ksinvest : chrisxbt: the only info we have is in goat's reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/3dn1tq/bfx_bot_gone_wild/
[2015-07-17 20:22:28] ksinvest : nice quote from a post about another BFX issue: "I am more concerned at Bitfinex's apathy toward the matter than the matter itself." https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/3dd2x1/is_bfx_still_underpaying_swaps/
[2015-07-17 20:27:08] BitMEX_Sam : Agreed, there was a bad incident a few weeks back where they got very heated on TS about their apathy - they don't seem to have any alerting system in place, their users are the ones who tell them when books cross and the API gets down
[2015-07-17 20:27:28] BitMEX_Sam : I know for a fact this is not alphapoint, however, I believe there will be a big improvement when they flip the switch. Alphapoint does a solid product
[2015-07-17 20:44:06] ksinvest : BitMEX_Sam: is Bitfinex's tech team still only Raphael (and his wife?), he seems to be also the only one responding to mails from customers.
[2015-07-17 20:57:44] j8 : these glitches could cause real problems for `BVOL24H` especially.
[2015-07-17 21:09:31] BitMEX_Sam : j8: Yeah we're aware of the problem. Considering our options
[2015-07-17 21:09:57] BitMEX_Sam : We've been frustrated with finex's API in general, we get a lot of errors from them that require creative workarounds
[2015-07-17 21:10:52] chrisxbt : if you think it's a problem halt trading
[2015-07-17 21:11:00] chrisxbt : you have no open interest
[2015-07-17 21:13:42] j8 : it's sort of a problem all around, like if bad data was used in the settlement calculations. then after it becomes clear that those weren't real trades.
[2015-07-17 21:15:00] miratrader : ksinvest, do you know when finex's orderbooks were crossed? I was away all day and wasn't paying attention. I'll check orderbook history to see what was happening.
[2015-07-17 21:18:14] miratrader : BTW, finex's unofficial websocket orderbook stream is not reliable. It has crosses sometimes and doesn't match orderbooks you get from REST API quite often.
[2015-07-17 21:19:09] BitMEX_Sam : miratrader: Good to know
[2015-07-17 21:39:07] ksinvest : miratrader: i don't know. my bot didn't even see that there is a problem with finex. i just read goat's blog/reddit post. it's intentional that the bot does not panic in such situations but it should at least altert me next time...
[2015-07-17 21:48:33] miratrader : ksinvest, thanks. I'm looking through our logs right now, didn't see anything suspicious yet. Maybe it was only on LTC/BTC market, we don't have bots there.
[2015-07-17 22:00:00] ksinvest : miratrader: me neither, this would explain a lot
[2015-07-17 22:02:32] miratrader : yeah, I see a bunch of 502 Bad Gateway errors in the log but that happens from time to time with finex. nothing out of the ordinary.
[2015-07-17 22:10:45] ksinvest : miratrader: so you didn't order anything between 17:00 and 18:00 GMT or were you able to? i'm now thinking of frequently placing orders there just to test if they suspended trading again.
[2015-07-17 22:51:28] j8 : i just tried getting trades from the bitfinex api for the glitch period. it's not giving me anything other than the last 1000 trades.. did something change? i used to be able to get trades by timestamp
[2015-07-17 23:03:18] miratrader : ksinvest, I checked, our bots didn't try to place any orders during that time, so I'm not sure if the trading was suspended
[2015-07-17 23:14:25] miratrader : ok, I checked finex trade history in our database. There were 68 trades on BTC/USD market from 17:00 to 18:00 UTC today.
[2015-07-17 23:16:21] miratrader : It's way too little, something wasn't working properly. Normally finex has ~500 trades per hour.
[2015-07-17 23:19:21] miratrader : for comparison: today from 16:00 to 17:00 - 445 trades, from 18:00 to 19:00 - 352 trades
[2015-07-17 23:22:48] ksinvest : these trades were what i'm meant with "simulated trades" because it was actually not possible to place any new orders during this time
[2015-07-17 23:23:46] miratrader : I don't think those were 'simulated trades
[2015-07-17 23:25:33] miratrader : It looks like the server was down from time to time bc there is a bunch of trades from 17:00 to 17:03 then nothing until 17:11, bunch of trades then nothing until 17:18 and so on
[2015-07-17 23:27:57] miratrader : so they had few minutes of up time followed by 10-20 minutes of down time during that time
[2015-07-17 23:29:55] miratrader : if you want to look at the data yourself, you can email me at info@cryptoiq.io and I will send you a CSV
[2015-07-17 23:30:21] ksinvest : but why only market orders during the up time, no orders being canceled, no new limit orders in the order book? or am i missing something?
[2015-07-17 23:33:36] miratrader : one sec, let me check the orderbook history. BitMEX, is it too off-topic for this chat? Sorry if it is, I have to intention of spamming your chat box.
[2015-07-17 23:40:22] ksinvest : sent you an email...
[2015-07-17 23:46:29] miratrader : ok, orderbook was 'stuck' with no updates from 16:48 to 18:00
[2015-07-17 23:47:18] miratrader : at least that's how it looked like from the API, who knows what was going on the finex server's
[2015-07-17 23:47:49] miratrader : * server's side
[2015-07-17 23:58:50] miratrader : ksinvest, I sent you the data
[2015-07-18 00:23:10] ksinvest : miratrader: thanks a lot. the column "TradeID" is quite interesting. if i'm reading correctly there where 2684 orders registered by Bitfinex's database during this period.
[2015-07-18 00:29:00] ksinvest : sorry, 2684 *trades* not orders were registered by Bitfinex's database during this period
[2015-07-18 01:03:19] miratrader : finex's TradeID on BTC/USD are always odd numbers but not exactly sequential. Usually it's 3-4 numbers in sequence then a jump, for example: 9658839, 9658841, 9658843, 9658849, 9658851, 9658853 9658859, 9658861, 9658869...
[2015-07-18 01:05:04] miratrader : typically a 2000 range in IDs corresponds to 400-500 trades
[2015-07-18 01:06:35] ksinvest : they use TradeID for all there markets not just BTCUSD and they register every trade twice (so only 1342 trades on the whole exchange and not just BTCUSD)
[2015-07-18 01:08:19] ksinvest : there are btcusd, ltcusd, ltcbtc, drkusd and drkbtc
[2015-07-18 01:10:58] miratrader : I never paid much attention but yes, looks that way
[2015-07-18 01:13:48] miratrader : so judging by the IDs from finex database we have 1000+ trades that are in the database but were not shown through the API
[2015-07-18 01:14:17] miratrader : or they screwed up the database and had to clean the trades from it
[2015-07-18 01:14:39] ksinvest : it's hard to say. do you have or do you have an idea how to get the historical data for the other markets on bfx?
[2015-07-18 01:15:19] miratrader : we have ltc/usd and ltc/btc, I'm looking at the data right now
[2015-07-18 01:19:40] miratrader : there are several 200-300 id skips during that hour
[2015-07-18 01:21:18] miratrader : My guess would be some db problem/corruption, nothing malicious
[2015-07-18 01:56:53] ksinvest : yes, probably. still in the best case we saw a db issue followed by very bad crisis management/communication.
[2015-07-18 16:01:50] germanjew : Who provides the margin-financing for bitmex?
[2015-07-18 16:05:43] j8 : what do you mean by that? there is no lending here
[2015-07-18 16:06:48] cengel : each counterparty puts down margin to cover each side of the trade
[2015-07-18 16:23:19] germanjew : 0% Margin Used (Leveraged 0.00x)
[2015-07-18 16:23:26] germanjew : where do the extra funds come from
[2015-07-18 16:23:57] germanjew : as I understand it, when I deposit 1BTC, I will have access to more than 1BTC for trading
[2015-07-18 16:24:03] germanjew : that is, leveraging
[2015-07-18 16:32:57] BitMEX_Wally : germanjew: If you go long a future then someone else is short a future
[2015-07-18 16:33:08] BitMEX_Wally : Both parties only have to put up the initial margin
[2015-07-18 16:34:20] germanjew : ah, thanks, now cengel makes sense as well
[2015-07-18 18:36:55] uiop : germanjew: ("when I deposit 1BTC, I will have access to more than 1BTC for trading")
[2015-07-18 18:37:44] uiop : germanjew: you wont have *more* that 1 btc, you can just lose it *faster*
[2015-07-18 18:38:07] uiop : or profit
[2015-07-18 18:40:02] uiop : better way to say, you dont need to borrow anything to short because futures trades arent exchanges of ownership
[2015-07-18 18:41:20] uiop : they're entering a contract
[2015-07-18 18:41:56] uiop : and long and short is just which dotted line you sign on
[2015-07-18 21:45:10] chrisxbt : volatility is dead
[2015-07-18 21:46:11] chrisxbt : yeah futures contracts aren't backed by assets
[2015-07-18 21:46:20] chrisxbt : *that sounds weird
[2015-07-18 21:47:20] chrisxbt : but with margin trading you're guaranteed profits and it's the lenders that take the risk
[2015-07-19 08:27:58] chrisxbt : Okay shorted 2.12 let's see how horribly this goes
[2015-07-19 09:08:56] j8 : beat me to it, just logged in to see if that bid was still there.
[2015-07-19 12:49:25] j8 : selling bvol is stressful eh
[2015-07-19 12:49:42] BitMEX_Arthur : Selling vol always is
[2015-07-19 12:51:45] j8 : maybe it would be nicer on sellers if it was an inverse contract? haven't entirely thought through the implications of that
[2015-07-19 12:55:30] BitMEX_Arthur : An inverse contract how would that work?
[2015-07-19 12:55:31] j8 : i.e. one contract always worth 0.01 XBT
[2015-07-19 12:56:25] j8 : as it is, if you're short and it goes against you, your position gets bigger and bigger.
[2015-07-19 12:57:55] j8 : and with low liquidity it's hard to get out. so with just a few contracts short you could rack up a big maintenance margin if shit hits the fan.
[2015-07-19 12:58:33] BitMEX_Arthur : We will be adding fixed and cross-margin for `BVOL` shortly so that won't be much of an issue
[2015-07-19 13:01:03] j8 : nice, that will be helpful. i guess since there's already such an asymmetry for long vs short, it would just even things out a bit. probably just add confusion though.
[2015-07-19 14:00:13] chrisxbt : yeah j8
[2015-07-19 14:00:30] chrisxbt : that'd be an interesting way to structure it
[2015-07-19 14:00:44] chrisxbt : right now it goes up more than down
[2015-07-19 14:15:59] j8 : well the index would still behave that way. but the pnl would be less extreme for big moves up.
[2015-07-19 14:52:48] chrisxbt : longed 2.08
[2015-07-19 15:48:41] j8 : 2.17 here
[2015-07-19 15:49:57] j8 : sunday though so i don't have my hopes up.
[2015-07-19 15:50:41] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah vol is usually low on the weekends.
[2015-07-19 15:50:49] j8 : unless its last weekend.
[2015-07-19 16:06:21] j8 : i wonder how big the weekend / time of day effects actually are. and why. it's not like anyone's trading at their job. fiat transfers are the only real difference.
[2015-07-19 16:07:06] BitMEX_Sam : Could just be traders taking a break on the weekend to be with their family / sleep
[2015-07-19 16:12:33] j8 : yeah, maybe something to do with the timing of all the futures settlements at the end of the week too
[2015-07-19 16:13:25] j8 : settlement -> get in position -> wait until monday
[2015-07-19 16:24:32] j8 : last weekend the madness started right after okc settlement, it lasted all weekend though.
[2015-07-19 16:56:24] j8 : i think ultimately the price action is more important. strong movements don't care about weekends. doing some plotting now.
[2015-07-20 07:55:02] chrisxbt : cut loss 1.85
[2015-07-20 11:58:14] goat : BitMEX_Sam: so weird, my otp just took a few tries to get
[2015-07-20 11:58:26] goat : totally could have been my fault entering the wrong one
[2015-07-20 11:58:43] goat : just wanted to let you know in case you want to check the lgs
[2015-07-20 11:58:44] goat : logs
[2015-07-20 11:59:21] goat : it was fine the 3rd try, again, totally could have been my fault
[2015-07-20 21:00:27] simonburns77 : where in the interface do we find futures?
[2015-07-20 21:23:35] BitMEX_Sam : simonburns77: The XBU and XBT series are typical Bitcoin futures
[2015-07-20 21:23:45] BitMEX_Sam : BVOL is a more advanced contract based on valatility.
[2015-07-20 22:24:05] BitMEX_Sam : goat: Thanks for letting me know, I'll take a look. Sometimes there can be time sync issues on either end.
[2015-07-20 22:48:59] goat : worked fine that last log in
[2015-07-20 22:49:23] goat : BitMEX_Sam: thats what i was thinking, maybe i was just entering near the end of the time limit or something odd like that
[2015-07-21 07:00:20] ksinvest : how is the "open interest" being calculated?
[2015-07-21 07:05:35] BitMEX_Arthur : It is the total number of open contracts
[2015-07-21 07:05:54] BitMEX_Arthur : A buy and a sell would increase open interest by 1
[2015-07-21 07:08:30] ksinvest : my bot did all trades on XBU24H since last settlement, except for two: one had the volume of 559 and the other was 20 contracts. (579) as i do not have any open positions and open interest shows 879 - this means i did my last trade (300) with somebody else than my first trades, right?
[2015-07-21 07:11:40] ksinvest : ... so the "open interest" reveals in some situations some information about the counterparty of a trade? (if the trader does not use multiple accounts)
[2015-07-21 07:21:56] BitMEX_Wally : ksinvest: The open interest is the sum of all long positions (which is the same as the sum of short positions).
[2015-07-21 07:22:29] BitMEX_Wally : So if you increase your position and the open interest does not change that means the counterparty was closing a position
[2015-07-21 07:28:31] ksinvest : i'm trying to let my bot detect possible wash trading with observing "open interest", as this could force me into liquidation.
[2015-07-21 07:30:39] ksinvest : thanks for the answers. it seems that the circuit breaker is the only valid protection. (and not be over leveraged in relation to the circuit breaker)
[2015-07-21 07:40:44] BitMEX_Wally : Yes, wash trading between different accounts is hard to detect
[2015-07-21 07:41:26] BitMEX_Wally : For BVOL* and XBT* contracts we mark to fair price to prevent manipulation
[2015-07-21 07:47:32] ksinvest : continuous trading of bitcoin combined with 8 hour sessions make the circuit breaker a bit tricky
[2015-07-21 21:40:26] miratrader : hey ksinvest, was your XBU24H bot offline until now?
[2015-07-21 21:57:21] ksinvest : miratrader: my bot is constantly quoting with the exeptions of some minutes when spreads are too narrow - there is an other very competitive bot (the 2btc bot aka 558 or 559 bot), that sometimes stops trading for hours
[2015-07-21 22:02:06] ksinvest : miratrader: you can find all my bot's recent orders here http://pastebin.com/p4uxLVy0
[2015-07-21 22:03:55] ksinvest : (timezone is GMT+2, you will find some rejected orders with quantity 0, when prices are too competitive)
[2015-07-21 22:07:29] miratrader : nice, thanks a lot
[2015-07-21 23:24:44] ksinvest : miratrader: if you look at the volume increase of XBU24H after my pastebin was published, this might be a proof how transparency improves market quality ;)
[2015-07-21 23:26:19] miratrader : Very true :-) Those small orders was me testing. Couple big orders probably real orders from people hedging.
[2015-07-21 23:44:31] ksinvest : tgha
[2015-07-21 23:44:40] ksinvest : thanks for doing this testing
[2015-07-21 23:45:37] ksinvest : my bot almost changed its strategy to becoming a FOMO trader after your trades ;)
[2015-07-21 23:48:27] miratrader : nice :-) I'm testing how bots react to position accumulation, so I try multiple sells or buys at different prices with the bot.
[2015-07-21 23:51:11] miratrader : it's very easy to do on XBU24H because we have only 3 market maker bots as far as I can tell and you can tell which one you are trading with.
[2015-07-22 00:15:02] ksinvest : very interesting what you are testing. there is a relatively high degree of complexity behind '2 btc bot'. still i don't know if it makes more money on a lower risk level than my bot. would be very interesting to have a chat with the owner of this bot as it seems to be the most 'advanced' one.
[2015-07-22 00:32:31] miratrader : I'm not sure it's that advanced. As far as I can see it follows finex spot price with a fixed spread that tightens as we get closer to settlement. Right now it post bid/ask at about $0.4 from spot.
[2015-07-22 00:33:34] miratrader : I'm not even sure it takes into account daily volatility because we had quite a down spike but it still posts bids/asks with about the same spread.
[2015-07-22 00:35:21] miratrader : I think it adjusts offsets from spot based on position but I'm not 100% sure yet, need to do more testing.