This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
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[2015-06-16 16:33:49] j8 : right, but what's the purpose of it if unrealized pnl is based on the mark price (protects the trader) and the bankruptcy caps are there (protects you guys)?
[2015-06-16 16:43:44] BitMEX_Wally : Yes, there isn't really much point of the % limit for capped contracts
[2015-06-16 16:45:53] Scott J : In that case would you always increase them?
[2015-06-16 16:49:27] j8 : i would suggest getting rid of it then. couldn't it stop someone from getting out of a position while the mark price moves and they get margin called?
[2015-06-16 17:04:01] BitMEX_Wally : j8: Yes, I've disabled them for now
[2015-06-16 17:04:11] BitMEX_Wally : Well, set them to 1000%
[2015-06-16 17:04:45] j8 : great.
[2015-06-16 17:06:09] Scott J : Nice
[2015-06-16 17:06:18] j8 : nice when things get simpler.
[2015-06-17 00:19:23] BitMEX_Arthur : So what's the upside traget here
[2015-06-17 00:25:41] gaoMex : BitMEX_Arthur: Hard to say. It can be $1200 first, then $2000.
[2015-06-17 00:26:07] BitMEX_Arthur : lol you must have woken up from a dream ;)
[2015-06-17 00:26:08] gaoMex : Or until $300. Depends on the cause of this rally and who is buying.
[2015-06-17 00:26:13] BitMEX_Arthur : let's talk in the next 5 days
[2015-06-17 01:36:06] Scott J : I thought we were done for a while, but looking at LTC maybe not
[2015-06-17 04:19:22] laisee : people in china switching from trading shares to crypto coins?
[2015-06-17 05:09:21] uiop : good ltc action
[2015-06-17 05:09:39] uiop : laisee: lol totally
[2015-06-17 08:26:56] laisee : uiop: coming collapse of china stock markets, euro and bonds should surely boost the bitcoin price ...
[2015-06-17 08:43:21] cengel : do open orders that offset open positions remain open after settlement?
[2015-06-17 08:59:36] BitMEX_Arthur : They remain
[2015-06-17 08:59:45] BitMEX_Arthur : Open
[2015-06-17 09:00:10] BitMEX_Arthur : Sorry they do not
[2015-06-17 09:01:32] BitMEX_Arthur : For official mm they remain open for everyone else they are closed
[2015-06-17 09:04:34] cengel : this is true also to open orders that do _not_ offset open positions?
[2015-06-17 09:10:00] BitMEX_Arthur : What do you mean, can you give me an example
[2015-06-17 09:13:30] cengel : say i've got a position of 10 on contract x closing in 1 hour. say i have a sell order of -10 unfulfilled into/after settlement
[2015-06-17 09:13:51] cengel : alternatively: say i have position of 0 and sell order -10 unfilled
[2015-06-17 09:14:31] cengel : as I understood, at settlement any open interest is "closed" (shows in recent trades) so any open orders offsetting the position interest get also closed, but anything beyond that stays open
[2015-06-17 09:17:54] cengel : or do all open orders at settlement just get removed unconditionally
[2015-06-17 09:50:12] BitMEX_Arthur : At expiry all open orders are cancelled
[2015-06-17 09:50:23] BitMEX_Arthur : All open positions cease to exist
[2015-06-17 13:38:34] cengel : god damn, now the volatility just wont stop!
[2015-06-17 13:59:51] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, it's nice to see.
[2015-06-17 14:09:40] cengel : it's almost the opposite problem of no volatility though
[2015-06-17 14:10:04] cengel : in terms of liquidity for BVOL conts
[2015-06-17 14:11:08] BitMEX_Sam : Yep; liquidity has bene hard to come by
[2015-06-17 14:11:13] BitMEX_Sam : been*
[2015-06-17 15:34:23] ksinvest : do you have any detailed information how the XBT30M TWAP is calculated? Every minute on the first second?
[2015-06-17 15:35:59] cengel : love how the moves coming every half hour are more than what we saw for days at a time
[2015-06-17 15:37:13] ksinvest : does the XBT30M TWAP between 11:30:00 and 11:30:59 always equals the Bitfinex spot price of 11:30:00?
[2015-06-17 15:40:25] BitMEX_Sam : ksinvest: One second, let me get the exact numbers for you
[2015-06-17 15:40:41] ksinvest : thank
[2015-06-17 15:40:45] ksinvest : you
[2015-06-17 15:46:53] BitMEX_Sam : ksinvest: Okay, the TWAP for .XBT30M is calculated from 30 snaps from 11:30 to 12:00 GMT daily. Those snaps are requested at 40 seconds after the minute but are entered into the database with their actual response times and timestamp returned form the ticker
[2015-06-17 15:47:36] BitMEX_Sam : There is some variance due to bitfinex's caching layer; sometimes data is a little stale, or takes a while to come back, but we compensate for that
[2015-06-17 15:52:46] ksinvest : thanks, didn't think about bitfinex's caching layer, that makes things even more complicated...
[2015-06-17 15:55:18] BitMEX_Sam : Yep. There is also about a minute of downtime at 13:00 UTC, every day, for whatever reason
[2015-06-17 15:55:30] BitMEX_Sam : Maybe a backup job gone wild
[2015-06-17 15:56:22] ksinvest : interesting info
[2015-06-17 15:59:30] ksinvest : i'm currently running a market maker bot on XBU24H and doing arbitrage trading. If i understand correctly i would have to sell 1/30every minute from 11:30:40 to 12:30:40 at the other platform if i'm long 1 on bitmex? (without taking into account bitfinex's caching layer)
[2015-06-17 16:01:54] ksinvest : i made a lot of money yesterday by not calculating the TWAP by accident. i want to make this will not happen again :)
[2015-06-17 16:03:34] BitMEX_Sam : If you're long one bitcoin, not one contract
[2015-06-17 16:03:44] ksinvest : yes
[2015-06-17 16:03:46] BitMEX_Sam : since XBU24H is worth $1 of Bitcoin at settlement
[2015-06-17 16:03:58] BitMEX_Sam : Also 11:30:40 to 11:59:40
[2015-06-17 16:05:10] ksinvest : ok thanks!
[2015-06-17 18:01:56] Scott J : I am really impressed with the BVOL series. Made a nice amount on the 7D.
[2015-06-17 18:02:20] Scott J : It's great not worrying what the price moves... as long as it moves :D
[2015-06-17 18:02:34] Scott J : *7D = 24H
[2015-06-17 18:04:39] Scott J : *what way
[2015-06-17 18:05:47] BitMEX_Sam : It's a fun contract to be sure; useful for interesting hedging strategies where you want to make sure your profits are intact even if there's a big swing
[2015-06-17 20:09:57] j8 : been looking at some interesting possibilities holding both `BVOL24H` and `BVOL7D` since they're based on the same data.
[2015-06-17 20:22:06] j8 : and on fridays they settle at the same time. one basically determines the other so you could hedge them pretty effectively that day, with some weird PNL curves depending where it settles
[2015-06-17 20:28:28] BitMEX_Sam : Smart idea. I haven't graphed the relationship myself but it should be pretty easy to predict
[2015-06-17 20:32:51] cengel : j8, i like doing long BVOL7D early in week and selling BVOL24H when in the money
[2015-06-17 20:33:03] cengel : toward end of w
[2015-06-17 20:33:52] cengel : so that if your BVOL24H position gets blown up, the 7D is killing it
[2015-06-17 20:36:16] j8 : yeah exactly.
[2015-06-17 20:41:42] j8 : you can basically set up a straddle where you're in the green if it settles in a certain range. or the opposite
[2015-06-17 20:42:33] cengel : yea it's like insurance for selling BVOL24H for m
[2015-06-17 20:43:05] j8 : did that pay off for you yesterday?
[2015-06-17 20:58:33] cengel : ha ha ha ...
[2015-06-17 21:00:22] cengel : was not quite anticipating this magnitude move :) i insured for moderate vol not biggest move on months
[2015-06-17 21:00:44] cengel : shit liquidity made trading out almost impossible
[2015-06-17 21:06:42] j8 : yeah, it was all over in that one 2.3% five minute candle
[2015-06-17 22:14:52] blackdog6621 : anyone know why my liquidation price is 248.30 when I'm long with an average entry is 239.10, almost $10 less? My account was in forced liquidation that closed for a *profit*
[2015-06-17 22:16:05] blackdog6621 : I don't really understand how liquidation could be higher than the average entry
[2015-06-17 22:24:14] j8 : that is weird. i think it's possible if you had positions on other markets since its one margin balance for all positions. also open orders take up margin, although i think cancelling all orders is the first step of margin call
[2015-06-17 22:45:48] blackdog6621 : I didn't have any open orders or other positions
[2015-06-17 22:46:27] blackdog6621 : I'm actually being liquidated right now and my wallet balance is going up lol
[2015-06-17 22:46:40] j8 : then i have no explanation. better ask @BitMEX_Arthur
[2015-06-17 23:15:47] goat : yeah, right now i am confused with my liquidation price as well
[2015-06-17 23:16:03] goat : im using .51% leverage and my liquidation price is at $102
[2015-06-17 23:16:15] goat : 0.51% leverage
[2015-06-17 23:18:09] j8 : 0.51x you mean?
[2015-06-17 23:19:31] goat : oops yeah
[2015-06-17 23:19:46] goat : generally when i use this little my liquidation is 0
[2015-06-17 23:24:08] goat : generally, isnt a rough calculation of your "margin call" price = 100/leverage
[2015-06-17 23:24:16] goat : and that gives you the percentage move you need to get margin called?
[2015-06-17 23:24:45] goat : aka, using 20x leverage means price moves 5% for you to get called
[2015-06-17 23:25:03] goat : i know bitmex uses their own proprietary system, but that just doesn't seem right
[2015-06-17 23:28:16] BitMEX_Sam : blackdog6621: I'm looking into your issue now, waiting for one of our HK partners to get up (it's still very early there local time)
[2015-06-17 23:29:36] j8 : goat: it's different for quanto vs inverse
[2015-06-17 23:31:13] BitMEX_Sam : Right, inverse contracts can potentially have huge downside if the price goes down. Imagine you're long 3 contracts at a Bitcoin price of $300 - the underlying value is 1 bitcoin, and you're essentially betting on that value to go down in bitcoin quantity because the price has risen
[2015-06-17 23:31:27] BitMEX_Sam : But if the price drops to $100/bitcoin, those three contracts have a liability of 3 bitcoin
[2015-06-17 23:31:51] BitMEX_Sam : If down to $10/bitcoin, you have a liability of 30 bitcoin. And so on
[2015-06-17 23:32:25] BitMEX_Sam : That's assuming inverse contracts that are worth $100, as our long-dated contracts are; XBU24H is worth $1/contract
[2015-06-17 23:37:01] goat : got it
[2015-06-17 23:37:22] goat : i have to brush up on the formulas, i haven't looked at them since the day i signed up
[2015-06-17 23:37:23] goat : thank you
[2015-06-18 00:31:16] BitMEX_Arthur : Hi guys
[2015-06-18 00:35:37] BitMEX_Arthur : Ok so on any capped contract like `XBTM15` we segregate margin because we don't want speculative positions to impact healthy hedging positions you may have on an `XBU` contract
[2015-06-18 01:17:21] BitMEX_Sam : ksinvest: Would like to correct what I was saying earlier about our snaps, I talked to our engine developer and he says we actually grab the last trade before each snap and use that for the settlement. So the latency doesn't matter
[2015-06-18 01:18:40] BitMEX_Sam : We take the exact price as reported at 11:31:00 up until 12:00:00 inclusive (30 snaps), by requesting the trades for each minute and using the price of the last trade.
[2015-06-18 01:42:33] ksinvest : so it's not at 11:mm:40 but 11:mm:00 and i have to take the "last" price that is timestamped with this time every minute from bitfinex to calculate the TWAP in real-time?
[2015-06-18 01:43:02] BitMEX_Sam : Yes. This is born out of how hard it is to actually get the bitfinex ticker to respond right on the minute
[2015-06-18 01:43:28] BitMEX_Sam : Especially with the cloudflare caching. So right after the minute has ended we fetch the trades for that minute and use the last one as the last price
[2015-06-18 01:43:37] BitMEX_Sam : This way it's exact.
[2015-06-18 01:44:35] ksinvest : i don't know if more people would need this for arbitrage trading but it would be great if you could give access to the current TWAP via API.
[2015-06-18 01:46:55] BitMEX_Sam : We do publish it, as the `.XBT` index: try https://www.bitmex.com/api/v1/trade?symbol=.XBT&count=100&reverse=true
[2015-06-18 01:47:50] BitMEX_Sam : See https://www.bitmex.com/app/restAPI#timestamp-filters for tips on querying it
[2015-06-18 01:49:13] ksinvest : great. thank you.
[2015-06-18 01:53:04] ksinvest : they have even two caching layers. cloudflare and incapsula and they say their servers are in Italy. i tried to ping them from different locations and got the best results from servers in singapore. maybe just coincidence. do you think location still matters if you are behind at least two caching layers (e.g. if bitfinex, you, cloudflare and incapsula had servers in singapore)?
[2015-06-18 02:00:36] BitMEX_Sam : Yes, because they cannot cache requests that are are seldom used (complex filters), user data, or order placements
[2015-06-18 02:00:54] BitMEX_Sam : Try placing an order on the edge of the book from different locations and see what's fastest
[2015-06-18 02:01:44] ksinvest : i will try it, thanks
[2015-06-18 02:05:21] ksinvest : still one more stupid question regarding the TWAP: i would have to take (price_113100 + price_113200) / 2 to get the TWAP of 11:32:00 and (price_113100 + price_113200 + price_113300) / 3 to get the TWAP of 11:33:00 and so on until settlement?
[2015-06-18 02:07:06] BitMEX_Sam : Yes, that would give you a good guess of what the twap would be at settlement, of course with more confidence as you accumulate values
[2015-06-18 02:11:39] ksinvest : i want to reduce 1/30 of my position each minute on the other platform at the "per minute TWAP" price so i actually don't need it as prediction but as real-time price.
[2015-06-18 02:14:09] BitMEX_Sam : Well, there will be market slippage so you won't likely get exactly the price you want
[2015-06-18 02:14:32] BitMEX_Sam : But if I understand your idea, you want to sell 1/30 exactly at the spot price per minute
[2015-06-18 02:15:09] BitMEX_Sam : Note that this will likely be a very narrow arb so be sure to include trading fees in your profit calculations
[2015-06-18 02:17:49] ksinvest : yes i can only sell at the spot price. but this real-time TWAP prediction should give me more data and maybe my bot will sell/buy then less or more than 1/30 every minute.
[2015-06-18 02:20:54] BitMEX_Wally : ksinvest: During the calculation period we publish the incremental TWAP price as the `indicativeSettlePrice` on the instrument
[2015-06-18 02:21:11] ksinvest : ad fees: you are absolutely right, i will be not really able to make money unless i will take more risk and have the other position at a exchange in china.
[2015-06-18 02:22:27] ksinvest : @BitMEX_Wally: thanks!
[2015-06-18 02:24:59] BitMEX_Wally : blackdog6621: For `XBTM15` we require 15% initial margin to open a position, and then 10% maintenance margin. This means that in general a 5% move will start liquidations.
[2015-06-18 02:26:29] BitMEX_Wally : blackdog6621: This 5% extra margin is freed-up after the session and can be used to leverage further. We also allow unrealisedPnl to be used to increase leverage. In your case this is how you managed to have a position where the liquidationPrice was above your avgEntryPrice
[2015-06-18 02:29:32] ksinvest : but i don't really know yet if my thoughts make sense. i'm not a trader. i just enjoy improving my bot. i will maybe open source publish the code. it's based on your python market maker. thanks a lot for publishing it and congratulations for building this platform!
[2015-06-18 02:32:36] BitMEX_Wally : ksinvest: You're welcome. Please do open source your code, and let us know if we can help at all
[2015-06-18 02:41:27] ksinvest : right now my bot could maybe only prove that Burton Malkiel monkey theory also applies to Bitcoin. it was making more money than it should and some trades that did not make sense at all. but i will improve it and when it's good enough i will publish it.
[2015-06-18 02:46:03] j8 : BitMEX_Arthur: can you clarify the part about segregating margin for capped vs uncapped contracts? i haven't seen this in the reference anywhere. i assumed it was full account.
[2015-06-18 02:56:46] BitMEX_Wally : j8: Sorry for the confusion. At the moment we have portfolio margining, but when calculating the bankruptLimitUp/bankruptLimitDown prices of capped contracts we do not 'poach' the maintenance margin of other positions
[2015-06-18 02:57:30] BitMEX_Wally : We are currently working on a second generation capping system, that will keep margin segregated and allow us to offer 20x leverage.
[2015-06-18 03:01:08] j8 : ok but for the purposes of forced liquidation, you count it?
[2015-06-18 03:03:46] BitMEX_Wally : Yes, for forced liquidation we look at total equity
[2015-06-18 03:19:22] j8 : cool, any plans for per contract margining? at the moment theres no way to take a risk (like shorting `BVOL24H`) without risking your entire balance. the only way is to move funds out.
[2015-06-18 03:21:54] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes strict liability is something we are working on
[2015-06-18 03:25:46] j8 : great.
[2015-06-18 15:06:07] goat : http://shitco.in/2015/06/18/is-greece-the-only-country-about-to-get-cyprussed/
[2015-06-18 15:08:54] BitMEX_Arthur : nice
[2015-06-18 15:09:00] BitMEX_Arthur : is this weekend supposedly d-day?
[2015-06-18 15:09:02] BitMEX_Arthur : for greece
[2015-06-18 15:11:43] goat : idk thats what the msm says so probabaly no
[2015-06-18 15:12:02] BitMEX_Arthur : yeah, basically they want to cause a bank run
[2015-06-18 15:12:06] BitMEX_Arthur : otherwise they would be mum
[2015-06-18 15:12:14] BitMEX_Arthur : they hope it forces syrza's hand
[2015-06-18 15:13:18] goat : as the imf puts it - http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fm/2013/02/pdf/fm1302.pdf
[2015-06-18 15:13:40] goat : The sharp deterioration of the public finances in many countries has revived interest in a “capital levy”— a one-off tax on private wealth—as an exceptional measure to restore debt sustainability. 1 The appeal is that such a tax, if it is implemented before avoidance is possible and there is a belief that it will never be repeated, does not distort behavior (and may be seen by some as fair). There have been illustrious supporters, including Pigou, Ricardo, Schumpeter, and—until he changed his mind—Keynes. The conditions for success are strong, but also need to be weighed against the risks of the alternatives, which include repudiating public debt or inflating it away (these, in turn, are a particular form of wealth tax—on bondholders—that also falls on nonresidents)
[2015-06-18 15:15:08] goat : i just added that to the article actually
[2015-06-18 15:15:12] BitMEX_Arthur : greeks need to wake up
[2015-06-18 15:15:20] BitMEX_Arthur : gtfo of the euro
[2015-06-18 15:15:36] BitMEX_Arthur : they will be back in the int'l debt makets within 2 years
[2015-06-18 15:17:03] goat : yeah bc the monetary system we have is addicted to debt lol
[2015-06-18 15:17:25] goat : people will chase anything for possible yield
[2015-06-18 15:17:39] goat : or the brics will give them a deal and start over
[2015-06-18 15:19:11] blackdog6621 : BitMEX_Wally: thanks for looking into taht
[2015-06-18 23:44:40] Humanity : yikes
[2015-06-18 23:44:48] Humanity : just purchased $1M of bitcoin
[2015-06-18 23:45:02] BitMEX_Arthur : who did?
[2015-06-18 23:48:53] Humanity : Winklevii
[2015-06-18 23:49:04] Humanity : off the books
[2015-06-19 00:04:11] BitMEX_Arthur : when today?
[2015-06-19 00:46:04] gaoMex : Strange... If it's off the books, how would anyone know?
[2015-06-19 04:36:48] laisee : blockchain?
[2015-06-19 05:21:10] Scott J : source?
[2015-06-19 11:15:24] ksinvest : BitMEX_Arthur: getting out of the euro woudn't help greece, will never happen. if they had a strong industrial sector they could export better but they don't have anything to export...
[2015-06-19 11:16:35] ksinvest : greeks should teach their youth languages, that's the big problem: so many different languages, much less mobility than in the us.
[2015-06-19 11:17:08] ksinvest : (the big problem in the eurozone)
[2015-06-19 12:47:21] cengel : that's not the big problem in the eurozone, ksinvest
[2015-06-19 12:47:47] cengel : ksinvest: the big problem in the eurozone is establishing a currency union without a proper fiscal union. that's what the US has that Europe needs, not a common language
[2015-06-19 12:49:21] cengel : the members of eurozone are structurally very different economies
[2015-06-19 12:49:46] cengel : so when the southern countries joined, they used their low rates to borrow like crazy, imabalnces led to cisis
[2015-06-19 12:50:21] cengel : and these imbalances used to be solved with, say, currency devaluation, because they each had their own currencies
[2015-06-19 12:50:54] cengel : now the devaluation has to occur internally if they are going to share currencies. so greece can't devalue currency to get an export advantage, they have to drop wages etc instead
[2015-06-19 13:13:42] ksinvest : cengel: absolutely agree that it was a high risk (and mistake) establishing a currency union before a proper fiscal union, but the damage is already done.
[2015-06-19 13:13:58] ksinvest : but the demage is already done.
[2015-06-19 13:14:28] ksinvest : the price for getting out of the eurozone is much higher than not entering it.
[2015-06-19 13:18:05] ksinvest : the eurozone is a political project that was meant the boost political integration after it was built. in its core this strategy works even but at high costs.
[2015-06-19 13:32:37] cengel : no it's a strategy that fails and we see the failure unfolding right now
[2015-06-19 13:55:38] ksinvest : i don't see any change of the situation now. it's a political power game with a lot of stakeholder involved. it gets blown up as a big event but has no real relevance. look at their GDP.
[2015-06-19 14:08:44] cengel : no change of the situation? :)
[2015-06-19 14:09:04] cengel : i think about the only thing certain is there will be a major change in the situation
[2015-06-19 14:09:32] ksinvest : no change = no higher chance for grexit
[2015-06-19 14:13:24] cengel : if not grexit then capital controls. syriza aren't closet moderates man they're actual leftists
[2015-06-19 14:13:53] cengel : and Greece is in a depression. they dont have any more places to squeeze out of,
[2015-06-19 14:16:24] ksinvest : i quite sure that tsipras/hollande/gabriel/renzi can find a social-democartic style solution that could be backed by juncker
[2015-06-19 14:20:57] cengel : the bigger problem is the IMF, not EC...
[2015-06-19 14:23:39] ksinvest : for the greek, yes. but why should the IMF trigger a grexit?
[2015-06-19 14:25:59] ksinvest : the eurozone/eu will pay for greece but they shouldn't expect to have a better life standards than bulgaria.
[2015-06-19 14:26:29] cengel : greece's pension expenditures as %GDP have only gone up because the denominator has dropped so much, it screws up a lot of their data since 2008
[2015-06-19 14:26:59] cengel : im not sure how it will end, i'm not as optimistic as you though
[2015-06-19 14:27:35] cengel : but what i do know is that this is not the end. Greece is only the beginning (well, Cyprus was, but still)
[2015-06-19 14:28:00] ksinvest : i agree that they are broke but they are a very small region in a powerful economic zone.
[2015-06-19 14:28:04] cengel : Eurozone has a flawed design that will continue to cause problems until the southern deficit countries leave (or the northern surplus ones )
[2015-06-19 14:28:38] cengel : or of course, if Europe suddenly becomes united nd each country gives up soveriegnty to a fiscal body in Brussells (lol)
[2015-06-19 14:28:46] cengel : i laugh because here we just elected a very right-wing party
[2015-06-19 14:28:49] ksinvest : in the end it's all about if you believe that the eurozone will break apart.
[2015-06-19 14:29:05] cengel : a right-wing party that got elected for two reasons: 1) they hate Eurozone, 2) they hate immmigrants
[2015-06-19 14:29:06] ksinvest : and this will not happen.
[2015-06-19 14:29:16] cengel : more of this will happen in other European countries as economy gets worse
[2015-06-19 14:29:52] cengel : ksinvest: youre saying there can be no orderly exit of a memebr from eurozone? of course ther can.
[2015-06-19 14:30:29] cengel : i dont think the whole currency union has to go bust or stay together.
[2015-06-19 14:30:41] cengel : Cyprus was a kind of dry-run for what's going to happen in Greece
[2015-06-19 14:30:56] cengel : but Varoufakis is no dummy, will be interesting to see what cards he plays
[2015-06-19 14:33:03] ksinvest : i'm not saying there can't be an orderly exit. i'm only saying it's politically in nobody's interest. (within the eurozone) the costs would be two high for everybody.
[2015-06-19 14:36:32] cengel : i agree, and i think that's what Varoufakis is going with, and why they're holding out so much
[2015-06-19 14:36:48] ksinvest : exectly
[2015-06-19 14:37:01] ksinvest : sorry for the many typos...
[2015-06-19 14:37:10] cengel : but i would point you to the opinion polls in Germany, and the rhetoric of its politicians, they aren't incredibly enthusiastic about Greece staying in
[2015-06-19 14:37:33] cengel : in northern europe, the problem is seen as one of discipline and "mediterranean culture"
[2015-06-19 14:37:52] ksinvest : the biggest challenge will be for the eu leaders not to lose face in this situation.
[2015-06-19 14:38:28] ksinvest : but tsipras will manage this i think with the social democrats.
[2015-06-19 14:43:45] ksinvest : you can compare "mediterranean culture" with "californian culture" i guess...
[2015-06-19 14:50:05] ksinvest : there is a negative correlation of average days of sun per year, vitamin D level of population and debt level i guess...
[2015-06-19 14:50:41] ksinvest : a low vitamin D level leads to depression and anxiety here and we worry just too much about debt :)
[2015-06-19 14:56:59] ksinvest : ad german opion polls: merkel is still in a very strong position and has a lot of space to build a compromise. she can even afford to lose face in this negotiation.
[2015-06-19 14:58:07] ksinvest : and: greece has no real priority for her. this issue it's just a pain in the ass for every eurozone politician.
[2015-06-19 14:58:45] cengel : Schäuble is still holding a hardline though
[2015-06-19 14:59:42] cengel : i think they can afford to and should just agree to the Varoufakis plan. it's hard to look at the situation and not give serious weight to what Greece has been through
[2015-06-19 14:59:57] cengel : we're talking worse than great depression
[2015-06-19 15:00:24] cengel : and this is in 2015 where labor mobility is way higher, than 1930s.
[2015-06-19 15:00:24] ksinvest : yes but don't forget: it's very important that there will be some germans who are unhappy about the deal. otherwise tsipras can't sell it at home.
[2015-06-19 15:00:49] cengel : i dont think tsipras or varoufais are your typical politicans though
[2015-06-19 15:00:55] cengel : if so the negotaitions would have already been successful by now
[2015-06-19 15:01:12] cengel : they are principled leftists who aren't about to just put together a shitty liberal deal for their people
[2015-06-19 15:01:19] ksinvest : if merkel finds a solution with gabriel and the eurozone leaders nobody in cdu/csu would have any power to stop that anymore.
[2015-06-19 15:01:47] cengel : i'd love to see that. so far Merkel has barely been direclty involved it
[2015-06-19 15:02:04] cengel : i'd love to see that. so far Merkel has barely been direclty involved it's Schäuble and either he has a really good poker face or this isn't going anywhere
[2015-06-19 15:02:54] ksinvest : tusk just said today that head of state / goverment will take over now. so merkel will get involved and schäuble will stay in berlin
[2015-06-19 15:05:51] ksinvest : just take a look here if you think the euro will break apart: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reserve_currency&section=2
[2015-06-19 15:06:36] ksinvest : look at year 2009 at the table "Global currency reserves"
[2015-06-19 15:07:28] ksinvest : that's when (and i believe why) the eurozone got into problems
[2015-06-19 15:10:10] cengel : ah it will be good if merkel is taking over
[2015-06-19 15:10:16] cengel : Schäuble is just hopeless
[2015-06-20 06:36:55] Swedishnut : Happy Birthday to me.... 1 is the loneliest #
[2015-06-20 13:57:19] Scott J : happy birthday, @Swedishnut
[2015-06-20 14:24:53] Swedishnut : Could I ask a Birthday wish? BTC to 265 :P and ty for the Birthday wish.
[2015-06-20 14:27:38] j8 : it won't come true if you tell people your wish
[2015-06-20 14:54:26] Swedishnut : See I have kept it a secret for 28 years what I want. Trying the reverse logic this year.
[2015-06-20 15:31:55] j8 : maybe if we all wish hard enough...
[2015-06-21 01:43:52] chrisxbt : oh I see they added liquidity for XBTM
[2015-06-21 01:44:51] BitMEX_Arthur : Yes the mm has increased quoting size
[2015-06-21 01:47:10] BitMEX_Arthur : I see from WC that okc.com is down
[2015-06-21 01:51:08] chrisxbt : yeah 250, 500, 750
[2015-06-21 01:51:16] chrisxbt : * 500, 750, 1000
[2015-06-21 01:51:31] Swedishnut : Anyone else watch Dope? The movie in theatres with Bitcoin in it? I thought it was a solid 8/10
[2015-06-21 01:51:42] BitMEX_Arthur : what's the synopsis
[2015-06-21 01:53:13] chrisxbt : Are you adding XBTN soon?
[2015-06-21 01:53:24] BitMEX_Arthur : monday
[2015-06-21 01:53:26] BitMEX_Arthur : 12 gmt
[2015-06-21 02:00:08] Swedishnut : DOPE:THE MOVIE:-- Briliant Black American grows up on the streets and is accidentally placed in a holding position of a lot of Molly. Used Bitcoin to receive funds. can't ruin for you but he uses technology so well but ONLY briefly.
[2015-06-21 02:00:51] BitMEX_Arthur : lol
[2015-06-21 02:00:54] Swedishnut : I also saw Jurrasic World today too. it was very predictable compared to Dope.
[2015-06-21 02:01:18] BitMEX_Arthur : i still haven't seen mad max
[2015-06-21 02:01:54] Swedishnut : That one is a solid 9/10 maybe 9.7
[2015-06-21 05:16:28] SnackyCoins : FOMO into mad max
[2015-06-21 06:51:29] VanCleef : madmax is great, is dope any good?
[2015-06-22 01:47:18] Swedishnut : Dope was a 9/10 for me best unique thing I've seen in a few years
[2015-06-22 01:51:45] BitMEX_Arthur : hmm
[2015-06-22 12:01:33] BitMEX_Arthur : `XBTN15` and `XBUN15` are now available for trading
[2015-06-22 12:19:18] Frederick69 : how it could be start for trading?and depositing for investing to start trading now?
[2015-06-22 12:22:26] BitMEX_Arthur : Hi
[2015-06-22 12:22:37] BitMEX_Arthur : Please go to the `Deposit` page
[2015-06-22 12:22:47] BitMEX_Arthur : you will be presented with a Bitcoin address
[2015-06-22 12:22:52] BitMEX_Arthur : after 1 confirmation you can trade
[2015-06-22 12:24:49] BitMEX_Arthur : Let us know if you have any other questions
[2015-06-22 14:39:42] BitMEX_Arthur : https://blog.bitmex.com/crypto-trader-digest-june-22/
[2015-06-22 15:33:00] Kiran : "Bitcoin is deposited instantly with BitMEX"
[2015-06-22 15:33:06] Kiran : Is this documented?
[2015-06-22 15:35:22] BitMEX_Sam : Kiran: This is an in-development feature that we are working to develop in tandem with a wallet provider
[2015-06-22 16:57:43] wjschafer : I have a question regarding margin required
[2015-06-22 16:57:57] wjschafer : Can you answer that Sam or should I ping Arthur?
[2015-06-22 16:58:16] wjschafer : it's not a software q
[2015-06-22 16:58:49] wjschafer : so we need to have margin on deposti
[2015-06-22 16:58:51] wjschafer : in BTC
[2015-06-22 16:58:59] wjschafer : deposit*
[2015-06-22 16:59:11] wjschafer : let's say for example its 30%
[2015-06-22 16:59:27] wjschafer : if we're hedging
[2015-06-22 16:59:42] wjschafer : doesn't that leave us exposed to BTC vol?
[2015-06-22 17:00:04] wjschafer : the 30% on deposit
[2015-06-22 17:00:25] wjschafer : trying to determine total exposure and total costs
[2015-06-22 17:00:35] BitMEX_Sam : Hey wjschafer,
[2015-06-22 17:01:05] BitMEX_Sam : If you think about it in terms of a non-margining exchange, you could hedge bitcoin price risk by selling XBU contracts in an amount equal to your exposure
[2015-06-22 17:01:26] BitMEX_Sam : If you for instance wanted to hedge $1000 of bitcoin exposure, you could sell 10 XBU monthly contracts to effectively hedge until expiry.
[2015-06-22 17:01:38] wjschafer : right
[2015-06-22 17:01:46] BitMEX_Sam : Now, since we offer margining, you could actually do that same hedge effectively by only depositing $300 of Bitcoin.
[2015-06-22 17:01:49] wjschafer : but i need to have 30% for example as margin
[2015-06-22 17:01:55] wjschafer : right
[2015-06-22 17:02:05] wjschafer : so I'm exposed to the $300
[2015-06-22 17:02:09] wjschafer : going up or down
[2015-06-22 17:02:40] wjschafer : so i'm effectively hedging 70% of my exposure
[2015-06-22 17:02:42] wjschafer : not 100%
[2015-06-22 17:02:49] wjschafer : or am i missing something
[2015-06-22 17:03:03] BitMEX_Sam : That's true when you count the btc you're using to hedge as exposure itself
[2015-06-22 17:03:12] wjschafer : ok
[2015-06-22 17:03:18] BitMEX_Sam : In which case you may want to open a larger position
[2015-06-22 17:03:19] wjschafer : just wanted to be sure i had that straight
[2015-06-22 17:03:32] wjschafer : ?
[2015-06-22 17:03:59] BitMEX_Sam : If you're able to actually deposit the bitcoin that you're hedging into bitmex, there is no new exposure, but if it is other bitcoin, yes, you would need to hedge a larger amount
[2015-06-22 17:04:19] wjschafer : ok wait
[2015-06-22 17:04:39] wjschafer : we have a wallet service
[2015-06-22 17:05:05] wjschafer : if i want to hedge $100
[2015-06-22 17:05:36] wjschafer : i sell the XBU
[2015-06-22 17:05:47] wjschafer : and i put
[2015-06-22 17:06:05] wjschafer : deposit $30 with Bitmex
[2015-06-22 17:06:07] wjschafer : in BTC
[2015-06-22 17:06:27] wjschafer : that margin deposit with you in BTC
[2015-06-22 17:06:37] wjschafer : is not subject to BTC price swing
[2015-06-22 17:06:40] wjschafer : is that correct?
[2015-06-22 17:06:46] BitMEX_Wally : Yes
[2015-06-22 17:06:52] wjschafer : hmm
[2015-06-22 17:07:01] wjschafer : ok well that's good news then
[2015-06-22 17:07:01] BitMEX_Wally : Let us suppose the price is currently $100 and you have 1 Bitcoin
[2015-06-22 17:07:06] wjschafer : k
[2015-06-22 17:07:22] BitMEX_Wally : You want to lock in the $100 price of this 1 Bitcoin, so you transfer 0.30 Bitcoin to BitMEX
[2015-06-22 17:07:28] wjschafer : right
[2015-06-22 17:07:47] BitMEX_Wally : You then sell 1 contract of XBU i.e. $100 or 1 Bitcoin worth
[2015-06-22 17:07:53] wjschafer : yup
[2015-06-22 17:08:02] wjschafer : cost's me 50 cent
[2015-06-22 17:08:12] wjschafer : er
[2015-06-22 17:08:15] BitMEX_Wally : So you have 0.70 Bitcoin at home, and 0.30 Bitcoin on the exchange, and a short future position of 1 Bitcoin
[2015-06-22 17:08:20] wjschafer : fittycent
[2015-06-22 17:08:36] wjschafer : with you
[2015-06-22 17:08:47] BitMEX_Wally : So you are completely hedged
[2015-06-22 17:09:00] wjschafer : ok
[2015-06-22 17:09:02] wjschafer : got it
[2015-06-22 17:09:16] BitMEX_Wally : If the price of Bitcoin goes to the moon, your future position might get margin called
[2015-06-22 17:09:27] BitMEX_Wally : So there's no reason you could just deposit the whole 1 Bitcoin on BitMEX
[2015-06-22 17:09:40] BitMEX_Wally : Then you don't need to worry about margin calls, and it will always be worth $100
[2015-06-22 17:10:51] wjschafer : are you an exchange as well?
[2015-06-22 17:11:15] wjschafer : so i guess i use Bitfinex (or whatever) to buy and sell BTC
[2015-06-22 17:11:41] BitMEX_Wally : BitMEX only offers futures that are margined and settled in Bitcoin
[2015-06-22 17:11:45] wjschafer : ok
[2015-06-22 17:11:45] BitMEX_Wally : So yes, we recommend Bitfinex for spot trading
[2015-06-22 17:11:56] wjschafer : so i'll use an exchange
[2015-06-22 17:12:12] wjschafer : ok so i think i have it for now.
[2015-06-22 17:12:20] BitMEX_Wally : Cool, let us know if you have any questions
[2015-06-22 17:12:24] wjschafer : the margin exposure was my big question
[2015-06-22 17:12:42] wjschafer : ok we're gearing up to go live with our wallet
[2015-06-22 17:12:43] BitMEX_Wally : Once you have bought some Bitcoin on an exchange, you can leverage it long or short here
[2015-06-22 17:12:50] wjschafer : got it
[2015-06-22 17:13:30] wjschafer : i am really impressed with your transparency and
[2015-06-22 17:13:35] wjschafer : communication
[2015-06-22 17:17:30] BitMEX_Wally : Tell your friends, we have an affiliate programme :)
[2015-06-22 19:26:24] miratrader : question about fees: is the taker fee for XBT* 0.1% on both trader and hedger fee schedules?
[2015-06-22 19:48:39] BitMEX_Sam : miratrader: Yep - you can see the full fee schedule for each contract by clicking the fullscreen button on the instruments panel and scrolling to the right about halfway
[2015-06-22 19:49:17] BitMEX_Sam : This info is also available at https://www.bitmex.com/app/fees
[2015-06-22 19:53:16] miratrader : thanks, can't believe I missed that. I'm adding Bitmex to our trading system and have to program fee calculations correctly
[2015-06-22 19:54:07] BitMEX_Sam : Great to hear
[2015-06-22 19:56:13] miratrader : any plans to add FIX support?
[2015-06-22 19:56:32] BitMEX_Sam : Yep, it's in the roadmap, hoping to complete it by the end of the year
[2015-06-22 20:02:21] miratrader : Glad to hear that. Guess we will use REST API for now with execution notifications from websocket, at least you have that.
[2015-06-22 20:03:47] BitMEX_Sam : Yes, that works for most use cases, unfortunately there is no standard across Bitcoin exchanges, with the exception of FIX which is rarely supported
[2015-06-22 20:06:53] miratrader : most Bitcoin exchanges don't have execution notifications at all, and some (not pointing fingers to B*ex) still don't have a properly working websocket data streams
[2015-06-22 20:11:00] miratrader : anyway, your API is more than sufficient. FIX would be nice of course, would save us from writing any custom code.
[2015-06-22 20:11:50] BitMEX_Sam : Right.
[2015-06-22 20:12:02] BitMEX_Sam : The finex unofficial websocket appears to have been functioning well for a few months now,
[2015-06-22 20:12:15] BitMEX_Sam : I would of course be hesitant to attempt to run anything on top of it without a backup data source.
[2015-06-22 20:13:07] miratrader : no, it's not fine. We have been using it alongside the REST API for couple of months and you cannot rely on it. Too many discrepancies, orderbook crosses etc.
[2015-06-22 20:29:19] miratrader : You guys are at the top on the technical side, you just need more users and more volume. I know it's very hard :-(
[2015-06-22 20:30:45] BitMEX_Sam : Well, AFAIK the official API has been subject to the same orderbook crosses and so on
[2015-06-22 20:30:59] BitMEX_Sam : But we only pull price data from it so I have probably missed most of the bad issues.
[2015-06-22 20:32:07] miratrader : yes, trades stream is OK, most of the issues are with the orderbook stream.
[2015-06-22 21:00:43] Scott J : Any plans to increase the leverage on XBTZ15?
[2015-06-22 21:04:40] BitMEX_Sam : Scott J: The intention is that leverage will increase as it nears expiry, but we will be rolling out a new margining system for XBT in the next few weeks that will increase leverage dramatically
[2015-06-22 21:10:16] Scott J : Sounds good.
[2015-06-22 22:51:46] ksinvest : Have you ever thought of a CDS-like instrument? this is already quite close to what i would have in mind: https://www.fairlay.com/predict/registered/new/bitfinex-will-lose-at-least-1-mio-usd-worth-of-customer-funds-till-2016/
[2015-06-22 23:47:24] BitMEX_Sam : ksinvest: Yep, we've been kicking that around for a few months now: https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/2z33wh/bitmex_wants_community_feedback_on_new_product/
[2015-06-23 02:38:57] ksinvest : wow, great. even if the market is not big enough yet, making the market for such a product would be at least a great PR instrument for BitMEX. People would follow the EDS prices even if they didn't buy this insurance.
[2015-06-23 03:06:06] ksinvest : the only challenge that i can see: it's not easy to define a default event.
[2015-06-23 03:08:16] ksinvest : the instrument makes no sense if there are no courts were you can enforce your rights and proof that a default event has been triggered.
[2015-06-23 03:11:13] ksinvest : so you would need a framework for arbitration in cases were it's not clear if an exchange defaulted.
[2015-06-23 03:13:31] BitMEX_Wally : ksinvest: For now BitMEX would have to decide if a default event had occurred, using certain metrics such as public announcement of hack, or majority of withdrawals delayed > 7 days, etc ,etc
[2015-06-23 03:15:29] ksinvest : BitMEX can not be the only arbitrator/court if it engages as market maker (or hold any positions in this instrument) such a conflict of interest would make the instrument very weak
[2015-06-23 03:16:26] BitMEX_Wally : Yes, BitMEX does not take a position or market make any of our instrument
[2015-06-23 03:16:44] ksinvest : really?
[2015-06-23 03:16:55] BitMEX_Wally : The whole system is zero-sum
[2015-06-23 03:16:58] BitMEX_Wally : Longs+shorts = zero
[2015-06-23 03:17:46] ksinvest : do you have any contracts with third party market makers who are providing liquidity?
[2015-06-23 03:17:53] BitMEX_Wally : Yes
[2015-06-23 03:18:31] BitMEX_Wally : Our anchor market maker is a hedge fund in London
[2015-06-23 03:18:39] BitMEX_Wally : They quote 7am to 9pm GMT
[2015-06-23 03:23:13] ksinvest : solving this possible conflict of interest problem will anyway be very hard, even if it's third party arbitration
[2015-06-23 03:25:52] ksinvest : but it seems like you are acting very professional also from a compliance perspective. this may be one of the most important key success factors if your business plan is long term orientated... thanks for all that transparency
[2015-06-23 03:31:34] BitMEX_Wally : We're certainly in this for the long term :)
[2015-06-23 03:51:06] ksinvest : did you observe these trades on XBU24H 1-2minutes ago?
[2015-06-23 03:52:15] ksinvest : what happens there? who buys/sells at 260?
[2015-06-23 03:57:48] BitMEX_Arthur : Someone who really wants to get long i guess
[2015-06-23 03:58:50] ksinvest : at 263.95 for an instrument that settles in a few hours?
[2015-06-23 03:59:08] BitMEX_Arthur : Someone probably fat fingered
[2015-06-23 03:59:41] BitMEX_Arthur : maybe it's a sign that you should go long too ;)
[2015-06-23 04:01:40] ksinvest : i'm long, and short. always both ;)
[2015-06-23 04:02:48] BitMEX_Arthur : like a boss lol
[2015-06-23 04:03:08] ksinvest : i should reprogramme my bots. they don't take there chances in fat fingered situation
[2015-06-23 04:05:58] ksinvest : but seemed more like faked turnover or a bug in your (third party provider's) market maker bot
[2015-06-23 04:35:24] ksinvest : watching the XBU24H is like watching drunk robots dancing.
[2015-06-23 04:35:55] ksinvest : the XBU24H orderbook...
[2015-06-23 06:26:09] miratrader : hey ksinvest, does your bot quote both sides on XBU24H?
[2015-06-23 11:09:39] BitMEX_Arthur : https://blog.bitmex.com/in-depth-creating-synthetic-usd/
[2015-06-23 15:14:18] ksinvest : miratrader: it is currently quoting both sides, but it depends on its position and the market
[2015-06-23 19:52:30] wjschafer : quick q
[2015-06-23 19:53:09] wjschafer : Hedger fee sched
[2015-06-23 19:53:38] wjschafer : if i'm sorting which fee am i paying? "maker" or "taker"
[2015-06-23 19:53:51] wjschafer : shorting*
[2015-06-23 19:58:10] ksinvest : wjschafer: fees do not depend on if you are short or long. taker = buy from the orderbook / maker = add a new position to the orderbook
[2015-06-23 19:58:25] wjschafer : also the time stamp. in thchat window here it seems to indicate local (eastern) time
[2015-06-23 19:58:34] wjschafer : is it the same for the trading time stamps?
[2015-06-23 19:59:24] wjschafer : ah
[2015-06-23 19:59:26] wjschafer : thx
[2015-06-23 19:59:52] BitMEX_Sam : wjschafer: All timestamps you see are local
[2015-06-23 20:00:07] wjschafer : cool thanx
[2015-06-23 20:00:29] wjschafer : that's really helpful btw. i hate to constantly have to conver to gmt or whatever
[2015-06-23 20:00:55] BitMEX_Sam : :) We initially render the page in GMT but grab the timezone from your browser and change all the stamps when the page is fully loaded
[2015-06-23 20:01:12] BitMEX_Sam : If only browsers would send their timezone when requesting a page, it would be easier
[2015-06-23 20:01:17] wjschafer : love that user experience design!
[2015-06-23 20:01:40] BitMEX_Sam : One thing people have been confused about is this line: "XBUZ15 is a XBT/USD inverse futures contract settling on the .XBT2H Index as of Dec 25 07:00:00 (GMT-05:00)."
[2015-06-23 20:01:43] wjschafer : so i'm starting to poke around here to get the feel for it
[2015-06-23 20:01:55] BitMEX_Sam : I'm thinking of changing that to "Dec 25 07:00:00 (12:00 GMT)"
[2015-06-23 20:01:57] BitMEX_Sam : would that be more clear?
[2015-06-23 20:02:06] wjschafer : yes it would
[2015-06-23 20:02:17] wjschafer : wow
[2015-06-23 20:02:26] wjschafer : a dev asking a user what would be easier
[2015-06-23 20:02:34] wjschafer : are you from the future?
[2015-06-23 20:02:37] BitMEX_Sam : Thought so. The `(GMT-xx:xx)` syntax is really common for programmers when dealing with time zones, but I don't think anyone else sees it much
[2015-06-23 20:02:56] BitMEX_Sam : Hahaha nah I just idle in this chat all day while working. Asking users what they want makes my job a lot easier, I don't have to try a bunch of things and guess
[2015-06-23 20:03:06] BitMEX_Sam : I have my head in this app all day every day so my assumptions are not the same as our users' assumptions
[2015-06-23 20:03:31] wjschafer : well pass it on, to all other engineers. great attitude and advice
[2015-06-23 20:03:45] wjschafer : so need a little help here
[2015-06-23 20:03:51] BitMEX_Sam : Sure -
[2015-06-23 20:04:01] wjschafer : i'm the guy with the wallet
[2015-06-23 20:04:06] wjschafer : so i need to lock in pricing
[2015-06-23 20:04:31] wjschafer : so i will sell XBU_15
[2015-06-23 20:05:17] BitMEX_Sam : Yep.
[2015-06-23 20:05:51] wjschafer : i'm looking at the order bookfor M15
[2015-06-23 20:06:31] wjschafer : i just has a question relative to maker/taker
[2015-06-23 20:06:41] wjschafer : either creating a new order
[2015-06-23 20:06:45] wjschafer : or filling existing
[2015-06-23 20:06:51] wjschafer : how to i do the latter?
[2015-06-23 20:07:26] wjschafer : an i guess i need to decide what I'm willing to pay
[2015-06-23 20:07:36] wjschafer : ideally when I go to buy my BTC
[2015-06-23 20:07:39] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, it's a fairly standard scheme.
[2015-06-23 20:07:50] BitMEX_Sam : Maker fees are lower to encourage users to put more liquidity into the book.
[2015-06-23 20:07:52] wjschafer : i can sell my contract at the same price
[2015-06-23 20:07:54] wjschafer : or close to it
[2015-06-23 20:08:10] BitMEX_Sam : So when you enter an order, and it doesn't execute immediately, that means you will pay the `maker` fee when it does execute.
[2015-06-23 20:08:16] BitMEX_Sam : As opposed to trading against an existing order.
[2015-06-23 20:08:25] BitMEX_Sam : So in every trade, one user pays `maker`, one user pays `taker`
[2015-06-23 20:08:26] wjschafer : ok
[2015-06-23 20:08:37] wjschafer : so how do i see the existing orders?
[2015-06-23 20:08:39] BitMEX_Sam : The difference is in who placed the order first.
[2015-06-23 20:08:43] wjschafer : right
[2015-06-23 20:08:43] BitMEX_Sam : Grab the orderbook
[2015-06-23 20:09:09] wjschafer : ok this is a little tricky
[2015-06-23 20:09:25] wjschafer : hard to see the chat window and the order book at the same time
[2015-06-23 20:09:42] BitMEX_Sam : You can collapse the navigation sidebar
[2015-06-23 20:09:45] BitMEX_Sam : See those little arrows below it?
[2015-06-23 20:09:51] wjschafer : would be cool to pop out this window like the chart view :-)
[2015-06-23 20:10:29] BitMEX_Sam : You can pop it out; open a new browser window, point it to BitMEX, fullscreen the chat box and resize the window
[2015-06-23 20:11:07] wjschafer : right ok
[2015-06-23 20:11:11] BitMEX_Sam : Also, we mirror all chat to IRC if that's easier
[2015-06-23 20:11:26] BitMEX_Sam : I use it now and then from my phone.
[2015-06-23 20:11:29] wjschafer : i went over ahwhile back and it seemed qiuet
[2015-06-23 20:11:31] wjschafer : this is fine
[2015-06-23 20:11:42] wjschafer : alright
[2015-06-23 20:11:44] wjschafer : order book
[2015-06-23 20:12:09] wjschafer : what little arrows on bottom again?
[2015-06-23 20:12:45] BitMEX_Sam : On the sidebar
[2015-06-23 20:12:46] wjschafer : i see little arrows in upper right corner - the expand/contract ones?
[2015-06-23 20:13:01] BitMEX_Sam : there are tiny arrows below `Log Out`
[2015-06-23 20:13:25] BitMEX_Sam : It should help you see the chat and the orderbook at the same time. Depends on your screen size though
[2015-06-23 20:13:28] wjschafer : ah
[2015-06-23 20:13:29] wjschafer : right
[2015-06-23 20:13:30] wjschafer : got it
[2015-06-23 20:13:49] BitMEX_Sam : You can resize the chat box too with the little nub
[2015-06-23 20:13:52] BitMEX_Sam : -->
[2015-06-23 20:13:56] wjschafer : i'm good
[2015-06-23 20:14:36] wjschafer : thx
[2015-06-23 20:14:42] wjschafer : ok back to the order book :-)
[2015-06-23 20:24:46] wjschafer : hello?
[2015-06-23 20:25:33] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, did you ask a question?
[2015-06-23 20:25:54] wjschafer : ok so the order book XBUM15
[2015-06-23 20:26:11] wjschafer : let's say i need to buy $10k in BTC
[2015-06-23 20:26:22] wjschafer : Ti's at $244.65
[2015-06-23 20:26:26] wjschafer : It's*
[2015-06-23 20:26:33] wjschafer : and i need to hedge that
[2015-06-23 20:26:45] wjschafer : looking at the order book
[2015-06-23 20:27:36] wjschafer : i'm totally noob in case you hadn't noticed
[2015-06-23 20:28:06] wjschafer : do i
[2015-06-23 20:28:11] wjschafer : i'm going to sell
[2015-06-23 20:28:13] wjschafer : got that much
[2015-06-23 20:28:38] BitMEX_Sam : Sure, the easiest way is to look at the `gross value` readout
[2015-06-23 20:28:51] BitMEX_Sam : But in any case, XBU series contracts are always worth $100 of Bitcoin
[2015-06-23 20:28:59] BitMEX_Sam : Except for XBU24H which is worth $1/contract
[2015-06-23 20:29:11] BitMEX_Sam : So a good way to think about it is in terms of how many US$ you want to hedge.
[2015-06-23 20:29:23] BitMEX_Sam : So if you want to hedge $10k, sell 100 XBU_15 contracts.
[2015-06-23 20:29:23] wjschafer : so if i were to need to hedge $10k right now
[2015-06-23 20:29:40] wjschafer : how would i do that
[2015-06-23 20:29:47] wjschafer : looking at the current order book?