BitMEX Trollbox Userinfo

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This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.


Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

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[2016-02-27 23:06:11] Tulip_stefan : hmm. Machine learning?
[2016-02-27 23:06:13] sleger : backtest is 2 servers with 8 cores each
[2016-02-27 23:06:19] sleger : not at all
[2016-02-27 23:06:38] sleger : ram usage is minimal though as data is not loaded for backtest but read
[2016-02-27 23:06:50] Tulip_stefan : i'm wondering what you use that much processing power for. Running a lot of simulations internaly?
[2016-02-27 23:07:01] sleger : and one mac mini for DB, website hosting for monitoring etc...
[2016-02-27 23:07:14] rapidtrades : sounds like ur code is shittier
[2016-02-27 23:07:26] Tulip_stefan : I monitor with ssh and grep...
[2016-02-27 23:07:27] sleger : rapidtrades: that's because you dont understand algo trading ;)
[2016-02-27 23:07:47] rapidtrades : @sleger
[2016-02-27 23:08:05] rapidtrades : sleger: could be
[2016-02-27 23:08:20] sleger : Tulip_stefan: cpu for backtest is to run multiple simulations indeed for optimization
[2016-02-27 23:09:08] Tulip_stefan : rapidtrades: that okcoin algo i was talking about lately, took about half a gig of ram and 100% cpu on one code. And i optimized everything with SSE. Backtesting took the entire night.
[2016-02-27 23:09:09] rapidtrades : sleger: what's the server cost?
[2016-02-27 23:09:15] Tulip_stefan : another reason i canned that algo :P
[2016-02-27 23:09:40] sleger : cpu live is totally different usage and most of it is wasted on purpose to be as fast as possible, think of it as a while(true)
[2016-02-27 23:10:10] sleger : rapidtrades: backtest servers, around 1k because thats the optimal point, a server twice the cost is not twice as fast
[2016-02-27 23:10:24] sleger : but for fx trading I use a server thats almost 20k
[2016-02-27 23:10:54] sleger : Tulip_stefan: for backtest I have to replay all single tick price from almost all exchanges
[2016-02-27 23:11:07] rapidtrades : sleger: do ur live bots run on computer or servers?
[2016-02-27 23:11:17] Tulip_stefan : sleger: so do i.
[2016-02-27 23:11:49] sleger : rapidtrades: what do you say is the differece between computer and server ?
[2016-02-27 23:11:53] rapidtrades : sleger: 20k what
[2016-02-27 23:12:01] sleger : usd
[2016-02-27 23:12:48] rapidtrades : sleger: how much do u pay for that tho....i mean what does it matter if its 20k
[2016-02-27 23:12:50] rapidtrades : did u buy it lol
[2016-02-27 23:12:54] sleger : yes
[2016-02-27 23:13:58] rapidtrades : sleger: would u say that was a good investment as opposed to renting out bunch of servers?
[2016-02-27 23:14:12] Tulip_stefan : that depends on his computing requirements....
[2016-02-27 23:14:21] sleger : yes, and renting out bunch of servers wouldnt have worked anyways
[2016-02-27 23:15:17] Tulip_stefan : what do you do on forex, mm or low-frequency algo trading?
[2016-02-27 23:15:39] sleger : hft, market making
[2016-02-27 23:16:21] Tulip_stefan : that's pretty impressive. I thought that market was pretty much saturated with big hedge funds.
[2016-02-27 23:16:39] sleger : who said i wasnt one ?
[2016-02-27 23:17:11] sleger : and market makers are not big hedge funds, they are almost exclusively high frequency proprietary trading companies, except for citadel
[2016-02-27 23:17:36] sleger : main market makers are Tower, Jump, Hudson River Trading ... none of which is a hedge fund
[2016-02-27 23:17:47] Tulip_stefan : you said 'i brought it' which gave the impression you brought the server with your own money rather than company money.
[2016-02-27 23:18:35] sleger : if you own your profit then its pretty much the same thing
[2016-02-27 23:19:07] Tulip_stefan : So you're a 1-man company?
[2016-02-27 23:19:17] sleger : no
[2016-02-27 23:19:42] sleger : think of it as a portfolio manager in a hedge fund
[2016-02-27 23:20:09] sleger : except that there is no investor
[2016-02-27 23:21:25] zanza : for HFT to be successful, you need lowest latency or shortest distance to exchange
[2016-02-27 23:21:34] sleger : Tulip_stefan: how long did it take you to write all that code
[2016-02-27 23:21:49] sleger : zanza: the 20k server is not in my living room :p
[2016-02-27 23:22:16] zanza : so you rent out a good data center
[2016-02-27 23:22:37] Tulip_stefan : sleger: about 2 years. My business partner wrote a part of it, i think i wrote around 20k of the bot and pretty much all of the analytic tools.
[2016-02-27 23:22:42] sleger : yes that's a pretty commoditized thing, everyone knows where to be colocated
[2016-02-27 23:23:14] sleger : Tulip_stefan: makes sense, thats quite a lot of code. Was it always intended for btc ? have you tried to throw other data at it ?
[2016-02-27 23:24:28] Tulip_stefan : It was always intended for BTC. We started at the really crappy exchanges, cryptsy and bter.
[2016-02-27 23:24:59] Tulip_stefan : my algo doesn't work on every exchange, i don't see much point in trying forex.
[2016-02-27 23:25:23] sleger : but have you made good money on the real exchanges ? bitfinex ? bitstamp ? 0kcoin usd ?
[2016-02-27 23:25:49] sleger : and how do you know it wont work on exchanges that you havent tried ?
[2016-02-27 23:26:55] sleger : unless what the algo does is buy on crappy exchanges when the price is 15$ lower than finex and sells when price reaches more or less bitfinex. By the way these are perfectly viable and working strategies.
[2016-02-27 23:27:12] sleger : The reward is just the reward for taking risk of putting money on shitty exchanges
[2016-02-27 23:33:18] Tulip_stefan : sleger: my backtester tells me there is good profit on some exchanges and no profit on others. Experiments confirm this.
[2016-02-27 23:36:52] Tulip_stefan : I have not made money on okcoin for... some reason i haven't figured out yet. I have not made money on bitfinex and stamp because their fee structure heavily favors market makers and i do relatively little volume.
[2016-02-27 23:37:38] Tulip_stefan : There is some money to be made there but not enough to move it away from the more profitable exchanges.
[2016-02-27 23:39:31] sleger : Tulip_stefan: and you dont think that maybe you make money just by playing relative differences between exchanges, and thats why it works well on crappy exchanges ?
[2016-02-27 23:39:59] Tulip_stefan : I know exactly why I'm making money.
[2016-02-27 23:44:42] sleger : ok i was mistaken about that i thought you werent sure
[2016-02-27 23:50:27] Tulip_stefan : Okcoin is a bit of a weird beast compared to the other exchanges. The lack of fees make some forms of manipulation possible and it's obviously swarmed with bots that will only engage in a trade if they think they have some kind of statistical edge. This is less the case on other exchanges because they have fees.
[2016-02-27 23:50:55] Tulip_stefan : it's still my #1 choice if i decide to try machine learning again but i need to completely rethink my approach.
[2016-02-28 00:03:29] Tulip_stefan : I'll try to toy with some new concepts tomorrow. I have been using the same stuff for too long.
[2016-02-28 00:18:47] davidjames : sleger: have you checked prices
[2016-02-28 00:19:18] davidjames : next time dont be an asshole :)
[2016-02-28 00:27:47] sleger : davidjames: you said yourself it was 4.40 and not 440
[2016-02-28 00:27:51] davidjames : if you actually want to manipulate the market and not just trade on the market email me at gbides@hotmail.com
[2016-02-28 00:27:51] sleger : and you werent talking about btc
[2016-02-28 00:28:04] davidjames : yes i was
[2016-02-28 00:28:14] sleger : but it was so obvious you would try to use it..
[2016-02-28 00:28:18] davidjames : email me sleger lets chat
[2016-02-28 00:28:22] sleger : and by the way it didnt reach 440
[2016-02-28 00:28:25] habibi : shiet, i thought it was about dogecoin
[2016-02-28 00:28:33] davidjames : it will
[2016-02-28 00:28:46] davidjames : habibi: email me ill let you in
[2016-02-28 00:28:55] habibi : sorry, dont have email
[2016-02-28 00:28:57] sleger : there's 99% chance it will yes, same as it was before
[2016-02-28 00:29:52] davidjames : yes
[2016-02-28 00:30:01] davidjames : habibi: can you text and or call
[2016-02-28 00:30:19] habibi : can be a postcard?
[2016-02-28 00:30:26] davidjames : sleger: just fucking join us man i want someone like you
[2016-02-28 00:30:32] habibi : i love to send postacards
[2016-02-28 00:30:43] davidjames : ypur on here every fucking day i like that
[2016-02-28 00:30:55] sleger : davidjames: i dont want to go to jail with you, i like my ass the way it is now
[2016-02-28 00:32:06] davidjames : i wont be going to jail like i said before we do we work with exchanges they like what we do we also make their market, so ill give you one chance lets just talk
[2016-02-28 00:34:16] sleger : you accept to talk to everyone, so just talk here
[2016-02-28 00:35:06] davidjames : well what we will be talking about wil laffect the market do i wont talk on here about prices
[2016-02-28 00:35:35] sleger : but you accept to talk to anyone who is here so there's no difference
[2016-02-28 00:35:50] davidjames : no i talk on email
[2016-02-28 00:35:58] davidjames : yes their is
[2016-02-28 00:36:51] davidjames : are you going to accept or are you going to be this way
[2016-02-28 00:38:23] sleger : yes
[2016-02-28 00:40:05] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 18 @ 429.71
[2016-02-28 00:40:35] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 1400 @ 427.14
[2016-02-28 00:40:35] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 1135 @ 426.77
[2016-02-28 00:41:35] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT7D`: Sell 3580 @ 431.24
[2016-02-28 00:41:39] davidjames : sleger: good i will look foward to hearing from you, you got my email ?
[2016-02-28 00:41:47] habibi : davidjames: check prices <3
[2016-02-28 00:42:08] davidjames : habibi: i know the prices im watching them
[2016-02-28 00:42:54] sleger : he is even making them
[2016-02-28 00:43:09] habibi : 440 on the way
[2016-02-28 00:45:13] davidjames : habibi: are you joking ? or not cause if you want to be friends then lets be friends but if your going to joke be friends with @REKT didint he just say to sell way to low
[2016-02-28 00:45:43] habibi : one thing, why u wanna be a good guy and give me free money?
[2016-02-28 00:46:28] davidjames : when your in my outfit you make money if not its not fun for anyone to be left out i help everyone
[2016-02-28 00:46:54] habibi : once again i will ask and i want real anserw, not some shitty " i am a helper"
[2016-02-28 00:47:05] habibi : why u need anyone beside?
[2016-02-28 01:11:25] davidjames : its good to have friends
[2016-02-28 01:12:14] davidjames : thats why
[2016-02-28 01:12:17] habibi : its ever more stupid answer than last one, see ya :)
[2016-02-28 01:12:23] habibi : even*
[2016-02-28 01:12:58] davidjames : habibi: then ill make sure you never make alot of capital from this game
[2016-02-28 01:13:19] habibi : shieet, i am fucked
[2016-02-28 01:15:55] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 754 @ 425.33
[2016-02-28 01:17:54] gustavo7 : om nom nom profits
[2016-02-28 01:19:55] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT7D`: Sell 14497 @ 427.42
[2016-02-28 01:21:59] rapidtrades : what's going on here fellas?
[2016-02-28 01:27:14] habibi : i will be reverse indicator now coz bitcoin market mover will play against me, wanna some profit? ask sam for special contracts here that plays against my position
[2016-02-28 01:30:39] rapidtrades : I'm still long as well :)
[2016-02-28 01:32:21] rapidtrades : habibi: whats ur average?
[2016-02-28 01:33:10] habibi : made quick scalp on that move
[2016-02-28 01:33:17] habibi : with 0.5 btc profit on 48h
[2016-02-28 01:34:06] habibi : not playing longer positions these days
[2016-02-28 01:34:16] rapidtrades : ah ok
[2016-02-28 01:36:13] rapidtrades : i think sleger is long too, was gunning for 440 yday
[2016-02-28 01:37:33] habibi : nah, he is always hedhed even he is not
[2016-02-28 01:38:01] rapidtrades : not sure what that means :)
[2016-02-28 01:38:24] habibi : he like every trader doesnt like to speak much about loss :p
[2016-02-28 01:38:35] rapidtrades : this move is the worst...not even a discount, no arbs to take advantage....just pure pain
[2016-02-28 01:49:45] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 2 @ 424.36 :punch: :whale:
[2016-02-28 01:50:00] rapidtrades : QQ
[2016-02-28 02:04:54] rapidtrades : IS THAT ALL U GOT BEARS
[2016-02-28 02:05:07] rapidtrades : U FAGGOTS
[2016-02-28 02:09:04] sleger : i am flat i said i took profits of the longs on the chat as i was doing it
[2016-02-28 02:29:22] rapidtrades : sleger: well thanks for crashing the market
[2016-02-28 04:50:52] BitMEX_Wally : viptrader: Your orders were being rejected with the message `Rejected: Executing at order price would put position into liquidation`
[2016-02-28 04:51:27] BitMEX_Wally : viptrader: If you have a long position you cannot submit a sell order below your liquidation price. You need to reduce your leverage or enable cross margin first.
[2016-02-28 06:42:19] Tulip_stefan : haha i actually filled on that liquitdation of 2 this night.
[2016-02-28 08:23:19] XBT_IHCT : davidjames: are you still here?
[2016-02-28 08:31:39] Tulip_stefan : Judging by the times he is normally online i guess he's counting sheep now.
[2016-02-28 08:35:56] davidjames : Yes I'm up
[2016-02-28 08:38:13] davidjames : Tulip_stefan: I'm up ?
[2016-02-28 08:38:22] davidjames : XBT_IHCT: I'm up
[2016-02-28 08:39:24] XBT_IHCT : davidjames: hey... how's it going?
[2016-02-28 08:41:33] XBT_IHCT : davidjames: are you going to buy a lot of coins... before settlement today?
[2016-02-28 08:43:13] XBT_IHCT : davidjames: or were you just joking around with sleger earlier?
[2016-02-28 08:52:37] davidjames : So I'm not sure sleger is as good as he sets out as to be I am offering him a position in my hedge fund but if he declines then we'll I guess just like the old saying in with the new and out with the old, and no I'm going to be back in the market Monday
[2016-02-28 08:54:05] XBT_IHCT : ah ok
[2016-02-28 08:54:27] davidjames : XBT_IHCT: why you want in as well ?
[2016-02-28 08:54:49] XBT_IHCT : shame though! because I still have some long contracts from before that dump earlier.
[2016-02-28 08:55:28] davidjames : Like I say join me and you want have to make mistakes anymore
[2016-02-28 08:57:32] XBT_IHCT : davidjames: I sure have made a lot of mistakes! I've been testing so many things... it's pretty insane how little has worked so far...
[2016-02-28 08:59:02] XBT_IHCT : davidjames: thanks for the invite
[2016-02-28 08:59:28] davidjames : Really shoot me a text 646-543-2990 or email me
[2016-02-28 09:00:04] davidjames : I'll make sure your making a lot of capital from our racket in this market when the next round comes
[2016-02-28 09:03:58] XBT_IHCT : davidjames: sending you a mail if it's all legal and totally legit then cool... thanks.
[2016-02-28 09:08:52] davidjames : Ok talk to you on email
[2016-02-28 09:14:32] XBT_IHCT : I use my revenue to subsidise my r&d costs. But with a pretty high burn rate anyway, all losses hurt that much more... whilst the need for capex is ever-present! so if you can really help minimize losses and improve profitability... I'll be very grateful! Thanks David.
[2016-02-28 09:32:56] Tulip_stefan : What do you spend your R&D costs on? My only costs are my spare time, electricity, and stuff i already had.
[2016-02-28 10:03:54] XBT_IHCT : too much to list! lol but you pay for what you get... and if you don't pay enough you get shit! and when shit just won't do! it can get expensive... the same goes for hr...
[2016-02-28 10:24:08] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 1 @ 424.85 :punch: :whale:
[2016-02-28 10:29:59] Tulip_stefan : i feel like a small fry here...
[2016-02-28 11:38:07] rapidtrades : BRING BACK THE OLD UI
[2016-02-28 11:42:34] BTCDJS : rapidtrades: out with the old, in with the new. everybody knows that.
[2016-02-28 11:43:01] jung1 : rapidtrades: try with google cache
[2016-02-28 11:43:28] rapidtrades : jung1: NOT FUNNY
[2016-02-28 11:43:33] Tulip_stefan : /s
[2016-02-28 11:43:38] jung1 : A bit
[2016-02-28 11:59:36] chromaticcr : save money before you can't ;)
[2016-02-28 12:00:31] rapidtrades : weird noone took that high bid
[2016-02-28 12:00:38] rapidtrades : guess everyone rolled over huh
[2016-02-28 12:00:58] chromaticcr : you mean 425.92?
[2016-02-28 12:01:32] rapidtrades : ya]
[2016-02-28 12:02:12] chromaticcr : people here are getting more savvy... i guess...
[2016-02-28 12:02:39] rapidtrades : if u had a long, it was a no brainer
[2016-02-28 12:02:42] Tulip_stefan : it's a trap!
[2016-02-28 12:03:32] chromaticcr : Tulip_stefan: of 4 cents
[2016-02-28 12:05:08] rapidtrades : so what do u reckon fellas? up or down?
[2016-02-28 12:05:31] habibi : chop chop chop then down
[2016-02-28 12:05:38] jung1 : Im long on 48h
[2016-02-28 12:05:42] chromaticcr : * fu<king circles *
[2016-02-28 12:06:07] jung1 : And long on eth as well
[2016-02-28 12:06:25] jung1 : My live will be long
[2016-02-28 12:06:59] rapidtrades : jung1: u ever close fella?
[2016-02-28 12:07:57] jung1 : Yeah mostly at 75% of profit
[2016-02-28 12:08:10] jung1 : Then waif for drop
[2016-02-28 12:08:23] jung1 : make a sandwich
[2016-02-28 12:08:28] jung1 : And again
[2016-02-28 12:08:59] jung1 : Repeat until being' milionaire
[2016-02-28 12:09:02] jung1 : Fat one
[2016-02-28 12:21:02] rapidtrades : jung1: and if price goes down
[2016-02-28 12:50:21] Tulip_stefan : I have the feeling i'm working on exactly the same mm algo as that 7000 guy...
[2016-02-28 13:44:51] islandsunite : Arbitrage is all over the place herein right?
[2016-02-28 13:49:46] islandsunite : Arbitrage is all over the place here right? #bitmex
[2016-02-28 13:59:12] ncshenge : jung1: i dont understand this,can u kindly email me and teach me how to trade and all that please
[2016-02-28 14:04:59] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 100 @ 430.07
[2016-02-28 14:06:08] islandsunite : Can you teach me too?
[2016-02-28 14:06:59] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 188 @ 430.74
[2016-02-28 14:13:59] rapidtrades : sleger got left at the station
[2016-02-28 14:14:17] rapidtrades : choo choo motherffucckers
[2016-02-28 14:17:37] Tulip_stefan : That moment when you accidently ctrl+c your bot in the middle of a big market movement...
[2016-02-28 14:22:10] rapidtrades : Tulip_stefan: what does that do
[2016-02-28 14:23:17] tradedesk : break (end the program)
[2016-02-28 14:23:36] rapidtrades : nice...
[2016-02-28 14:27:51] tradedesk : Tulip_stefan: unless you run it as a service and have a star|status|stop function ;-)
[2016-02-28 14:46:19] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 35 @ 432.49
[2016-02-28 14:46:39] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 100 @ 432.98
[2016-02-28 14:46:39] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 400 @ 432.93
[2016-02-28 14:48:17] habibi : nice!
[2016-02-28 14:53:06] sleger : no premium :o
[2016-02-28 14:53:13] habibi : sunday
[2016-02-28 15:03:41] rapidtrades : CHOOOO
[2016-02-28 15:03:43] rapidtrades : CHOOOOOOOOOOO
[2016-02-28 15:04:17] rapidtrades : LAST STOP FOR....f*ck it sleger you already missed it, can't get on now
[2016-02-28 15:19:18] rapidtrades : 40k buy wall,,,it's a thing
[2016-02-28 15:21:19] BTCDJS : rapidtrades: hey rapid is that you who followed me on twitter?
[2016-02-28 15:21:37] rapidtrades : no
[2016-02-28 15:21:43] BTCDJS : http://live.mytrades.io
[2016-02-28 15:22:07] rapidtrades : nope
[2016-02-28 15:22:12] BTCDJS : someone called my trades. Rapid trading strategies. thought it was you
[2016-02-28 15:22:25] BTCDJS : "My Trades"
[2016-02-28 15:22:30] rapidtrades : lol prolly a troll
[2016-02-28 15:22:39] rapidtrades : sleger has copied me in the past
[2016-02-28 15:23:08] rapidtrades : one time we made like 5 diff acounts and talked to himself
[2016-02-28 15:23:38] BTCDJS : rapidtrades: ha ha
[2016-02-28 15:23:50] rapidtrades : pretty elaborate trolling for smone who owns a 10k server
[2016-02-28 15:25:16] BTCDJS : well i thought this link quite useful. having all the volume exchanges on one screen @rapidtrades
[2016-02-28 15:25:29] sleger : 20k dude not 10
[2016-02-28 15:25:39] habibi : specially chinese volume is very usefull data
[2016-02-28 15:25:45] sleger : and I never said that was me
[2016-02-28 15:26:00] habibi : and wtf is exmo?
[2016-02-28 15:26:39] BTCDJS : habibi: haven't got a clue mate but everything else is pretty good
[2016-02-28 15:27:26] habibi : yea specially usd prices of china
[2016-02-28 15:27:42] BTCDJS : yes. no need to convert now
[2016-02-28 15:28:20] habibi : convert it by urself and check
[2016-02-28 15:30:50] habibi : ist just have no actual data from huobi
[2016-02-28 15:38:10] j8 : yikes what usd/cny rate are they using, 6.65?
[2016-02-28 15:41:50] j8 : nevermind it's okc usd, and huououbo's broken
[2016-02-28 15:48:32] gouda : whats up with houb
[2016-02-28 15:48:48] gouda : someone is collecting some longs on the 24hr
[2016-02-28 16:02:28] sleger : sounds like a bad idea
[2016-02-28 16:07:02] mrp1nk : sleger: why?
[2016-02-28 16:07:17] sleger : cause it just went up 10 points
[2016-02-28 16:17:37] Johnny1989 : can i withdraw bitcoin ? or only can withdraw w xBT ?
[2016-02-28 16:18:24] sleger : lol
[2016-02-28 16:18:53] gouda : rofl
[2016-02-28 16:28:14] habibi : best question since i am here
[2016-02-28 18:03:34] jung1 : Only paper contracts
[2016-02-28 18:04:23] jung1 : Johnny1989: xbt is same as btc
[2016-02-28 18:05:53] sleger : and only because 11=14 !
[2016-02-28 18:29:00] Hyde : hi
[2016-02-28 18:41:38] justinlooking : o/
[2016-02-28 18:45:44] rapidtrades : any keeping any stats on premium?
[2016-02-28 18:46:51] rapidtrades : did the average premium decline on 24h following the introduction of the roll? seems like it to me
[2016-02-28 18:47:06] Tulip_stefan : you can download the stats via the api.
[2016-02-28 18:47:24] Tulip_stefan : well, you can download the raw market data and the index data and then calculate the premium.
[2016-02-28 18:48:00] Tulip_stefan : i did that 2 weeks ago. Data was pretty cool.
[2016-02-28 18:48:19] rapidtrades : yeah if i wanted to do this, I wouldn't have started with ''anyone keeping stats on premium''
[2016-02-28 18:49:33] Tulip_stefan : I think i would...
[2016-02-28 18:54:14] sleger : changes in premium are not due to introduction of 48H
[2016-02-28 19:06:31] rapidtrades : sleger: ok then...if u say so
[2016-02-28 19:07:01] sleger : it happened before, and just due to less volatility AND more market makers on the platform
[2016-02-28 19:23:06] mdrn : bitcoin is alive, again
[2016-02-28 19:44:56] rapidtrades : sleger: do u make markets in eur/jpy?
[2016-02-28 20:10:49] mrp1nk : could someone please turn back on that 5k bot on 7D, thanks
[2016-02-28 20:13:19] rapidtrades : mrp1nk: youre welcome :)
[2016-02-28 20:15:01] mrp1nk : it just disappeared some minutes ago. now the spread is ~4$, before it was like 0.8$
[2016-02-28 20:16:41] sleger : rapidtrades: all majors so yes
[2016-02-28 20:18:10] rapidtrades : sleger: it's technically not a major pair but a cross
[2016-02-28 20:18:34] rapidtrades : sleger: why are u doing such a shitty job? frequently getting large slippage there
[2016-02-28 20:19:07] sleger : rapidtrades: you trade with a retail broker, this has nothing to do with me
[2016-02-28 20:20:12] sleger : rapidtrades: and I did not say major pairs, I said major, as in major currencies
[2016-02-28 20:22:23] rapidtrades : sleger: not exactly, broker is connected to ecn network..ultimately the bids/offers come from you guys?
[2016-02-28 20:23:17] sleger : "ecn network" which one ?
[2016-02-28 20:23:32] sleger : usually its their own, and so its mostly just retail and banks
[2016-02-28 20:23:42] rapidtrades : sleger: yeah its their own
[2016-02-28 20:24:31] sleger : so you only get liquidity of the people who are connected to your retail broker
[2016-02-28 20:24:42] sleger : do you know what last look is ?
[2016-02-28 20:25:01] rapidtrades : sleger: yeah but doesn't apply to retail i think
[2016-02-28 20:25:09] sleger : lol
[2016-02-28 20:25:35] sleger : I think there is only one retail broker who has no last look
[2016-02-28 20:25:48] rapidtrades : fxcm :)
[2016-02-28 20:25:59] sleger : LMAX
[2016-02-28 20:26:13] rapidtrades : ah well they're kinda their own ecn as well
[2016-02-28 20:26:20] rapidtrades : not technically a broker
[2016-02-28 20:26:39] rapidtrades : more like exchange....bascially ecn :)
[2016-02-28 20:26:43] sleger : what im saying is that its the only place where "you" can trade and face no last look
[2016-02-28 20:27:00] sleger : the other ecns are out of reach for the retail
[2016-02-28 20:27:34] rapidtrades : doesn't matter, i never had trades altered after the fact...are u saying this is the reason for my slippage or? how does it connect with what we've been talking about
[2016-02-28 20:27:48] sleger : what do you think is last look ?
[2016-02-28 20:28:20] rapidtrades : altering trades after the fact no? bank has the right to decline a trade?
[2016-02-28 20:28:38] sleger : not exactly, its not after the fact and you wont be aware of it
[2016-02-28 20:29:21] rapidtrades : so ur saying in that split second between trigger and execution is where they do the f*cking?
[2016-02-28 20:29:23] sleger : the exchange matches your order with a (bank) quote and the bank has like 100-200ms to decline the trade and if they do the broker will just tell you you're not done, you wont even know you were last looked
[2016-02-28 20:29:50] rapidtrades : idk, never happened to me on brokers that support ecn
[2016-02-28 20:29:59] sleger : it does you just cant know it
[2016-02-28 20:30:28] rapidtrades : i always get executed on ecns...not sure what u mean...the problem with ecns is slippage
[2016-02-28 20:30:47] sleger : if the market is 19/20 and you send a market order or say a buy at 22
[2016-02-28 20:31:13] sleger : maybe the ask at 20 last looks you and rejects and then the ecn matches you with next price at maybe 21 and there is your slippage
[2016-02-28 20:31:32] rapidtrades : okay I got what u mean
[2016-02-28 20:33:35] mrp1nk : the spread is now ~10$, well...
[2016-02-28 20:33:53] rapidtrades : sleger: do u have any stats on slippage? like what should I consider good execution, on average for eur/usd, eur/jpy
[2016-02-28 20:34:05] habibi : mrp1nk: just use market orders, no problem with spread then!
[2016-02-28 20:34:18] mrp1nk : habibi: sure...
[2016-02-28 20:35:20] rapidtrades : mrp1nk: is $441 ok i could put up more :)
[2016-02-28 20:36:11] sleger : rapidtrades: it totally depends on how you trade so no
[2016-02-28 20:36:26] mrp1nk : 437$ would be o.k. like some minutes ago
[2016-02-28 20:36:28] sleger : if you try to arb 2 brokers then you'll get really bad fills
[2016-02-28 20:36:41] sleger : if your flow is benign then you should get 100% of the price you want
[2016-02-28 20:39:24] rapidtrades : sleger: nah, don't do arbing in forex..they're all pretty much within 0.5 pip most of the time...impossible for humans to take advantage
[2016-02-28 20:40:19] rapidtrades : the ones that lag more then that are usually shitty and will prolly cancel profits
[2016-02-28 20:40:23] sleger : rapidtrades: actually its quite easy, just connect to one directly and the other via vpn in china and back to your home in usa, and you'll see lagging prices ;)
[2016-02-28 20:41:30] rapidtrades : sleger: what do ur bots do around news?
[2016-02-28 20:45:52] sleger : make money
[2016-02-28 20:46:32] sleger : not really willing to disclose too much...
[2016-02-28 20:48:29] justinlooking : i found somewhere with xbt sep16 forwards other day. was gonna ask if anyone would vouch but cant find htem now
[2016-02-28 20:50:52] rapidtrades : sleger: too much? u haven't disclosed anything yet lol
[2016-02-28 20:52:02] rapidtrades : is the 34k guy the same one that bought at 434
[2016-02-28 20:52:06] sleger : and that's the perfectly right amount
[2016-02-28 20:53:15] j8 : justinlooking: was it cryptofacilities?
[2016-02-28 20:53:38] justinlooking : yes it was
[2016-02-28 20:55:22] j8 : well, i don't have any experience with them. looks like low liquidity though
[2016-02-28 20:56:45] justinlooking : i haven't created acc there yet, imagine it's low liq
[2016-02-28 20:57:05] justinlooking : was thinking about potential halving plays
[2016-02-28 20:59:26] j8 : yeah halving's like beginning of july?
[2016-02-28 21:00:02] rapidtrades : u can't wait till july imo
[2016-02-28 21:10:23] j8 : could put on the basis trade now, no need to wait. you could buy june and sell september if you think hype will peak a bit before
[2016-02-28 21:14:41] j8 : sell the news 4 months in advance :)
[2016-02-28 21:23:14] Tulip_stefan : I really can't get over how sucky imgur's website is. I'm viewing an album. I press → , i go to the next album.
[2016-02-28 21:23:51] Tulip_stefan : No imgur, i don't want to view the next album. There isn't even a next album, it's a random album. I want to view the next picture in this album fullscreen, of course..
[2016-02-28 21:25:41] tradedesk : damn OKC charts are frozen again! ain't this pure manipulation?
[2016-02-28 21:25:56] mwalshe99 : how long has that 35k order been there on the daily?
[2016-02-28 21:26:42] habibi : 72 minutes, 15 seconds, why?
[2016-02-28 21:27:04] habibi : tradedesk: nothing freeze herehttps://www.okcoin.cn/market.do
[2016-02-28 21:27:34] tradedesk : thanks @habibi but it does on the 1m chart
[2016-02-28 21:27:48] tradedesk : OKC support call it a user side bug
[2016-02-28 21:28:15] habibi : tradedesk: not for me
[2016-02-28 21:28:28] tradedesk : you will see the price move, but not the candles
[2016-02-28 21:28:58] habibi : http://scr.hu/9xvi/sy9pj
[2016-02-28 21:29:14] mwalshe99 : habibi: thanks, how'd you know that?
[2016-02-28 21:29:52] habibi : mwalshe99: i set timer when it appeared on orderbook, i knew that u would ask about it so wanted to be helpful
[2016-02-28 21:29:54] tradedesk : habibi: how long did you have that chart open?
[2016-02-28 21:30:05] habibi : tradedesk: dont know, few hours at least
[2016-02-28 21:30:25] jung1 : quite hard for eth to break 1500
[2016-02-28 21:30:32] tradedesk : oh wow, alright.. then it is just me and a few on TV
[2016-02-28 21:48:50] jung1 : https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=ethereum&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT-1
[2016-02-28 21:53:41] jung1 : https://www.owler.com/iaApp/137494/coinbase-company-profile
[2016-02-28 22:24:28] jung1 : quite big sell wals on polo
[2016-02-28 22:24:37] jung1 : think about short it
[2016-02-28 22:25:02] tradedesk : jung1: tip: 50% of a wall is still a wall
[2016-02-28 22:25:52] jung1 : yeah but is a bit long resistance on 1500 level
[2016-02-28 22:26:06] jung1 : qill be not suprised about dump
[2016-02-28 22:26:19] tradedesk : dump sounds great
[2016-02-28 22:27:31] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 2000 @ 432.82
[2016-02-28 22:29:23] zanza : habibi: lol
[2016-02-28 22:46:01] jung1 : I think about invest in eth node
[2016-02-28 23:05:19] mrp1nk : 7D going full retard, wtf
[2016-02-28 23:25:45] jung1 : you are long?
[2016-02-28 23:26:19] mrp1nk : was about to enter 3h ago
[2016-02-28 23:27:19] jung1 : I keep my long since 426
[2016-02-28 23:27:22] mrp1nk : then the 5k bot disappeared and the spread increased x5
[2016-02-28 23:27:26] jung1 : and wonder about close
[2016-02-28 23:28:10] jung1 : http://www.spacex.com/webcast spacex rocket will start in 15min
[2016-02-28 23:28:33] mrp1nk : you bought directly after the settlement, right? had a long from there too, but closed it yesterday.
[2016-02-28 23:28:58] mrp1nk : is missed the dippa tonight
[2016-02-28 23:29:07] mrp1nk : or last night
[2016-02-28 23:29:20] jung1 : yes
[2016-02-28 23:30:27] jung1 : eth drop is comming
[2016-02-28 23:30:39] mrp1nk : finally :-)
[2016-02-28 23:31:29] jung1 : not final one imo
[2016-02-28 23:31:46] jung1 : big news will be announce 1st of march
[2016-02-28 23:32:16] mrp1nk : tomorrow?
[2016-02-28 23:32:21] jung1 : yes
[2016-02-28 23:32:22] jung1 : https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/45shqc/boneheads_ethereum_news_to_come_updated/
[2016-02-28 23:32:38] jung1 : thats the reason of that pump imo
[2016-02-28 23:32:46] jung1 : drop will be right after that
[2016-02-28 23:33:03] jung1 : but first $10 is not immpossible
[2016-02-28 23:35:52] mrp1nk : looking forward to short it
[2016-02-28 23:54:54] habibi : news are not reason to pump, its just explanation
[2016-02-28 23:55:00] habibi : for crowd
[2016-02-28 23:56:11] habibi : aka rationalization
[2016-02-28 23:59:49] jung1 : imo its good reason for pump with inside trading on polo by big players
[2016-02-29 00:19:12] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 1 @ 432.28 :punch: :whale:
[2016-02-29 00:31:22] jung1 : anyone here?
[2016-02-29 00:32:23] donkey : no
[2016-02-29 00:32:29] jung1 : :////
[2016-02-29 00:32:34] jung1 : money never sleep
[2016-02-29 00:32:36] jung1 : btw
[2016-02-29 00:33:00] jung1 : I got invitation for private beta to http://crix.io
[2016-02-29 00:33:07] jung1 : btc/usd futures
[2016-02-29 00:33:09] jung1 : 24 HOUR CONTRACTS icon-setting NO MARGIN CALLS icon-mobile NO SOCIALIZED LOSSES
[2016-02-29 00:50:16] wellerchang : LONG CHONG BONG TONG
[2016-02-29 01:09:25] tradedesk : damn okcoin fix your charts and spare us these idiot moves
[2016-02-29 01:24:43] jung1 : http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hiphop-fashion-Elegant-gold-statement-necklace-for-women-men-bitcoin-letters-pendants-Necklace-channel-for-unisex/32335706035.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_2,searchweb201644_1_505_506_503_504_10020_502_10001_10002_10017_10010_10005_10011_10006_10003_10021_10004_10022_10009_10008_10018_10019,searchweb201560_1,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_6449&btsid=cf58c61e-fc19-4056-8e73-f53ab3025ac1 im gonna buy it
[2016-02-29 01:51:23] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 1 @ 435.30 :punch: :whale:
[2016-02-29 01:52:33] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT48H`: Buy 2000 @ 437.52
[2016-02-29 01:55:22] rapidtrades : we're still choo chooing higher fellas!
[2016-02-29 01:55:53] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT48H`: Buy 120 @ 438.65
[2016-02-29 01:56:15] rapidtrades : SMOKE DA SHORTS!
[2016-02-29 01:56:36] rapidtrades : HIDE YO KIDS, HIDE YO WIFE, A TRAIN'S COMING
[2016-02-29 01:59:33] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT7D`: Buy 20 @ 439.93
[2016-02-29 02:03:52] jung1 : rapidtrades: you think we will go higher?
[2016-02-29 02:04:49] rapidtrades : jung1: duh
[2016-02-29 02:34:03] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 21 @ 439.83
[2016-02-29 03:16:15] rapidtrades : hey the daily roll will replace the 24h tomorrow?
[2016-02-29 03:16:21] rapidtrades : that's how it works right
[2016-02-29 03:18:03] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 7005 @ 437.14
[2016-02-29 03:22:39] jung1 : yes
[2016-02-29 03:23:06] jung1 : you go long?
[2016-02-29 03:27:55] BitMEX_Wally : rapidtrades: Yes, effectively the XBT24H contract starts its life as XBT48H
[2016-02-29 03:34:45] jung1 : BitMEX_Wally: how thay make no margin calls?
[2016-02-29 03:34:46] jung1 : http://crix.io
[2016-02-29 03:35:11] j8 : hey @BitMEX_Wally, i notice for orders on XBU7D the Order Value / Gross Value is negative, for both long and short.. just a display thing i think
[2016-02-29 03:35:34] BitMEX_Wally : j8: Thanks, let me look into that
[2016-02-29 03:37:59] BitMEX_Wally : jung1: Where does it say no margin calls?
[2016-02-29 03:38:49] BitMEX_Wally : Their product is low-leverage, only 5x and they charge 0.30% per trade
[2016-02-29 03:40:36] BitMEX_Wally : So they can probably afford to just take the risk the market moves up/down 20% within 24 hours and then claim no margin calls
[2016-02-29 03:42:08] jung1 : I got invitation email to private beta
[2016-02-29 03:42:14] jung1 : and they put thet info in it
[2016-02-29 03:45:20] BTCVIX : jung1: btw I think crix looks terrible but that is just me -- they keep asking me over and over for feedback and tell them the same I told mex a year ago
[2016-02-29 03:45:24] BTCVIX : they won't listen
[2016-02-29 03:45:48] BitMEX_Wally : Yeah we got that invite too
[2016-02-29 03:45:57] BTCVIX : lol
[2016-02-29 03:46:28] BTCVIX : they specifically told me "they looking for institutional traders" -- I remember another exchange saying that a year ago
[2016-02-29 03:47:04] BitMEX_Wally : Then we saturated the institutional market and had to look elsewhere for growth :)
[2016-02-29 03:48:29] BTCVIX : well I still stand behind what I have always said -- the reality is the crypto markets are dominated by active retail degenerate gamblers -- that is the primary user base
[2016-02-29 03:48:42] BTCVIX : I accept any and all challenges to that narrative
[2016-02-29 03:50:11] jung1 : yeah and this is another great thing in bitcoin
[2016-02-29 03:50:57] jung1 : that lot of people that are actually millionaires or have some amout of money thanks crypto aro not bankers or businessmans
[2016-02-29 03:54:09] BTCVIX : well you could say the same thing about tech I think
[2016-02-29 03:54:13] BTCVIX : but I understand your point
[2016-02-29 03:54:47] jung1 : fresh point of view on finance
[2016-02-29 03:55:07] jung1 : funny pics related to 6bilion market
[2016-02-29 03:55:18] jung1 : etc
[2016-02-29 03:56:29] jung1 : btw Im curious about us president election
[2016-02-29 03:56:44] jung1 : its basicly trump vs goldman sachs
[2016-02-29 04:02:38] BTCVIX : other than for entertainment purpose I don't follow too much of politics
[2016-02-29 04:02:42] BTCVIX : there might be some good bets though
[2016-02-29 04:03:09] BTCVIX : that would interest me -- not so much the WWE wrestling chest thumping
[2016-02-29 04:27:26] zanza : BTCVIX: are you trading here now?
[2016-02-29 04:55:53] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 1 @ 436.74 :punch: :whale:
[2016-02-29 05:24:48] BTCVIX : zanza: still testing things out -- interested to do an ETH play
[2016-02-29 08:04:09] XBT_IHCT : good morning
[2016-02-29 08:04:43] XBT_IHCT : anyone still here?
[2016-02-29 08:08:00] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, we're around.
[2016-02-29 08:08:19] BitMEX_Arthur : We are always watching you
[2016-02-29 08:08:24] BitMEX_Sam : :o
[2016-02-29 08:09:21] XBT_IHCT : lol
[2016-02-29 08:18:58] XBT_IHCT : hey Sam, have you had any more thoughts about the order control box? or the ui in general?
[2016-02-29 08:20:09] XBT_IHCT : BitMEX_Sam: sorry I was a bit harsh when you pushed the update!
[2016-02-29 08:20:23] BitMEX_Sam : It's okay - people just are averse to change
[2016-02-29 08:20:40] BitMEX_Sam : We have more usability updates coming to it, but there won't be many more major changes for a while
[2016-02-29 08:25:36] XBT_IHCT : although I've been trying to get accustomed to it... I still miss the old order control box like a lot...
[2016-02-29 08:28:31] XBT_IHCT : I've been experimenting with css to make small changes... but if you would be able to give me a hand maybe I'll be able to come up with an css based option for myself... although having said that... I understand it's not easy...
[2016-02-29 08:34:25] XBT_IHCT : and anything useful I come up with (in spare time) I'll share too if you like...
[2016-02-29 08:38:05] XBT_IHCT : For example... with smaller screen sizes, on eth... because there is a longer string of digits... on the bid price column, the last digit is hidden behind the neighbouring ask price column... as this was very annoying for me depending on where I am... I added this:
[2016-02-29 08:38:56] XBT_IHCT : letter-spacing: -1px to your this td.bidPriceClamped div
[2016-02-29 08:39:18] BitMEX_Sam : Hmm. Let me take a look at that
[2016-02-29 08:39:48] XBT_IHCT : that very much sorted the problem for me on the smaller screens...
[2016-02-29 08:39:58] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah, understood - I'll fix this on our end
[2016-02-29 08:42:20] XBT_IHCT : that would be nice... because the change is not necessary for the 24 ~ 48 roll prices as they fit no problem... but my change is obviously global... so thanks Sam!
[2016-02-29 08:42:47] BTCVIX : I am still not too keen on the UI in terms of space utilization
[2016-02-29 08:43:02] BTCVIX : can I get rid of the chart via some customization features
[2016-02-29 08:44:32] XBT_IHCT : BTCVIX: atm you can temporarily move it out of the way by using this: div.popUpWidget.popUpChat.hidden-xs.closed { display: 1none; }
[2016-02-29 08:45:06] XBT_IHCT : it is just css and you can insert it into your browser...
[2016-02-29 08:46:12] BTCVIX : http://www.awesomescreenshot.com/image/1037366/35a5f8a57ffa2da7e80149b2e30b204e
[2016-02-29 08:46:22] BTCVIX : BitMEX_Sam: ^^
[2016-02-29 08:46:36] XBT_IHCT : BTCVIX: Sorry... should have made it clear that you must remove the "1" from none to enable it and add the 1 back if you want to restore the chat...
[2016-02-29 08:46:49] BTCVIX : the flow of eye movement isn't ideal yet
[2016-02-29 08:47:23] BTCVIX : I still think default should be what most people are familiar with
[2016-02-29 08:47:59] BitMEX_Sam : There will be more usability updates in the near future
[2016-02-29 08:48:15] BTCVIX : that is kind of the idea -- you try and match what the competitors do in terms of UI UX and then add your touch -- but you differientiate through products
[2016-02-29 08:48:52] BTCVIX : that way you don't spend 10 mintues re-explaining UI UX and can focus on other things
[2016-02-29 08:50:49] BTCVIX : things of gotten a lot better on here UI UX wise but it still isn't quite there
[2016-02-29 08:51:04] BTCVIX : spatial and flow issues are still frustrating
[2016-02-29 08:51:15] XBT_IHCT : BitMEX_Sam: you already know I think the exact same thing... so I won't hammer you any more about this...
[2016-02-29 08:52:13] BTCVIX : XBT_IHCT: are you agreeing with me ? or were you talking other things -- sorry I know I jumped into the middle of your convo with Sam with my own gripes
[2016-02-29 08:52:46] XBT_IHCT : BTCVIX: yeah man... totally!
[2016-02-29 08:53:24] BTCVIX : yeah, I mean there is progress but these are all things that have been brought up over a year ago lol -- even flibbr and I agree on this element
[2016-02-29 08:55:04] XBT_IHCT : I just think that I was a little harsh before and Sam has obviously put a lot of hard work into this new ui and the first thing I did when he pushed it was slam it!
[2016-02-29 08:55:10] BTCVIX : I know I have heard Sam say well it is about using the platform for awhile and getting used to it -- to me that is kind of shitty answer if you are trying to onboard new users -- it should be as intuitive as possible from a UI UX perspective -- not even talking about the products part
[2016-02-29 08:56:43] BTCVIX : XBT_IHCT: Sam was in Army -- the first rule they teach at Field Training is don't listen to the screaming but listen to the message in the screaming and just focus on that
[2016-02-29 08:56:43] BTCVIX : lol
[2016-02-29 08:57:23] XBT_IHCT : BTCVIX: lol
[2016-02-29 08:58:32] XBT_IHCT : BTCVIX: you think exactly the same as I do...
[2016-02-29 08:59:10] XBT_IHCT : that's why I was like... I'll stop hammering on about it... lol
[2016-02-29 09:01:08] BTCVIX : well all we can do is come on here and tell them what we think
[2016-02-29 09:02:11] XBT_IHCT : yeah... that and little css tweaks in the meantime... lol
[2016-02-29 09:03:51] XBT_IHCT : so Sam... that's why I'd really like you to send me a list of div ids... and I'll just see what I can do to help with css tweaks that may be useful...
[2016-02-29 09:05:10] XBT_IHCT : BTCVIX: did you get what I was saying about adding the 1 in front of none to turn it on and off? to hide the chat when you want to.
[2016-02-29 09:05:45] BTCVIX : no that is too complex for new users so that is too complex for me -- I am pretending to be a new user
[2016-02-29 09:08:48] XBT_IHCT : ah okay then... cool
[2016-02-29 09:11:09] XBT_IHCT : Sam, would it be possible for you to add a button, (maybe near the megaphone icon would be intuitive) that would show or hide the trollbox?
[2016-02-29 09:12:48] BitMEX_Sam : I'm not sure if I understand this request
[2016-02-29 09:12:51] BitMEX_Sam : What's wrong with minimizing it?
[2016-02-29 09:13:54] XBT_IHCT : even though I know how to hide it... sometimes when it is not hidden... it can temporarily get in the way... the minimized version that is...
[2016-02-29 09:15:54] BitMEX_Sam : What does it get in the way of? It's rather small, unless you have a very tiny screen it seems odd that it would be an issue
[2016-02-29 09:17:13] XBT_IHCT : the css line I added to remove it altogether removes the minimized part of it also and it is for smaller screens again
[2016-02-29 09:20:00] XBT_IHCT : if it bugs me too much I'll just turn on my css fix to remove it completely... I just thought that as users seem to want to hide it sometimes... I just thought I'd suggest what I thought of... never mind...
[2016-02-29 09:48:45] REKT : Liquidated long on `ETH7D`: Sell 50 @ 0.01449