This is a mirror of the original BitMEX trollbox archive that used to be online here.
BitMEX disabled their archive after the DDOS attack so I have decided to make my mirror publicly available.

Well now, a few days after I made this mirror available to the public, the original archive from BitMEX is online again.
But since it is still limited (neutered to the last few hundred messages) I will keep my FULL mirror alive.

You have access to more than 50 million trollbox posts. This is more than 7 gigabyte of data hosted on a $5 server so please be patient or consider a donation

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[2016-02-03 17:24:01] sleger : then they probably limited your chat requests indeed. view archive, search for rapidtrades -> more than 100 found
[2016-02-03 17:24:47] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Sam: We're having a small service disruption - trading will be back online very shortly.
[2016-02-03 17:25:32] sleger : yeah and what's the message just after ?
[2016-02-03 17:26:44] rapidtrades : they prolly blanketed sent warnings cos they were DDOSed?
[2016-02-03 17:27:35] rapidtrades : I had like 10 posts in chat last 24 hrs so not sure what u mean @sleger
[2016-02-03 17:27:50] sleger : they are finding smart ways to regulate your chat requests. Just look at "View Archive"
[2016-02-03 17:29:09] rapidtrades : there's nothing there...
[2016-02-03 17:29:45] j8 : maybe your trades are too rapid
[2016-02-03 17:29:47] tscha : There are several 1-ordersize-orders in the book... maybe the guy posting these orders uses your api-keys to make it look more authentic @rapidtrades
[2016-02-03 17:30:39] sleger : I have past 3 days, and it says More than 100 matches. I copied it in Word and the result is 145....
[2016-02-03 17:31:04] rapidtrades : tscha: aren't API keys private
[2016-02-03 17:31:54] tscha : that was a j.... well nvm
[2016-02-03 17:32:07] sleger : rapidtrades: usually yes, but someone exposed yours in the chat 2 weeks ago
[2016-02-03 17:32:45] rapidtrades : any support here?
[2016-02-03 17:32:56] sleger : 350 is a good support
[2016-02-03 17:33:22] rapidtrades : meant bitmex support
[2016-02-03 17:33:52] sleger : if it's an emergency, in the country where your ... vpn... is not located, dial 911
[2016-02-03 17:35:05] rapidtrades : u prolly DDOSed bitmex with ur 111111 orders
[2016-02-03 17:37:35] sleger : if tick size was 0.1 it would not have been an issue. Same if min order size was 100
[2016-02-03 17:42:28] BitMEX_Sam : Hey rapidtrades
[2016-02-03 17:43:28] rapidtrades : BitMEX_Sam: hi Sam
[2016-02-03 17:44:22] BitMEX_Sam : As for your Too Many Requests issue, I see that happening during the disruption earlier, but nothing after
[2016-02-03 17:44:25] BitMEX_Sam : Nothing to worry about.
[2016-02-03 17:44:57] rapidtrades : yeah i assumed that was the problem, thanks
[2016-02-03 17:47:42] rapidtrades : another sharp reversal in usd/cnh today
[2016-02-03 17:48:09] rapidtrades : they let it go to 6.65 this time before prolly intervening again
[2016-02-03 19:48:37] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 150 @ 371.44
[2016-02-03 22:15:58] rapidtrades : looks like more downside
[2016-02-03 22:18:21] zanza : i wanna go long KBIO lol, don
[2016-02-03 22:18:27] zanza : don't have a US stock broker th
[2016-02-03 22:28:35] rapidtrades : dollar got r*ped today...why? who knows
[2016-02-03 22:33:44] rapidtrades : us stocks stable why the rest of the world goes to shit...GIS LET'S SELL THE DOLLA
[2016-02-03 22:42:02] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 10 @ 368.08
[2016-02-03 22:42:44] macios15 : dump is in the air
[2016-02-03 22:44:45] rapidtrades : don't jinx it bro
[2016-02-04 00:48:05] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 560 @ 371.04
[2016-02-04 01:23:06] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 149 @ 372.83
[2016-02-04 13:32:38] zanza : wow dead chat
[2016-02-04 13:36:09] tscha : will get more exciting the next weeks, dont wory
[2016-02-04 14:01:48] tscha : Freddy Fatfinger on Finex?
[2016-02-04 14:02:39] tscha : nope, controlled buying
[2016-02-04 14:03:09] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 6000 @ 376.41
[2016-02-04 14:03:48] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT7D`: Buy 1546 @ 378.20
[2016-02-04 14:05:22] tscha : wow
[2016-02-04 14:05:38] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT7D`: Buy 3100 @ 379.38
[2016-02-04 14:05:39] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 2500 @ 379.73
[2016-02-04 14:08:19] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTH16`: Buy 2000 @ 407.75
[2016-02-04 14:08:19] REKT : Sell your house, sell your wife, sell your kids, BUY BITCOIN!
[2016-02-04 14:08:57] zanza : what happened
[2016-02-04 14:09:12] elmorte : Anything to do with Classic release?
[2016-02-04 14:09:47] elmorte : That was hours ago though....
[2016-02-04 14:10:05] elmorte : Holy crap, even the 6000 contract bot got liq
[2016-02-04 14:10:40] zanza : i think that was a US/EU jump
[2016-02-04 14:10:41] tscha : damn, dpe
[2016-02-04 14:11:00] zanza : almost 24 hours to sort it out
[2016-02-04 14:11:04] elmorte : Does DPE affect you if you have no open position?
[2016-02-04 14:11:18] zanza : emotionally, yes elmorte
[2016-02-04 14:11:24] elmorte : lol....*phew*
[2016-02-04 14:11:41] sleger : elmorte: what @zanza said is not true
[2016-02-04 14:11:51] sleger : it depends if you have realized pnl positive
[2016-02-04 14:12:02] elmorte : No, didn't trade today at all
[2016-02-04 14:12:05] zanza : 379.14
[2016-02-04 14:12:11] zanza : we should see that soon
[2016-02-04 14:12:17] sleger : elmorte: well so then why would it affect you... just dont trade while dpe exists
[2016-02-04 14:12:29] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBTH16`: Buy 1000 @ 408.62
[2016-02-04 14:12:30] elmorte : I have funds in my wallet...
[2016-02-04 14:12:39] elmorte : that is hosted on the Exc
[2016-02-04 14:12:45] elmorte : Just asking :)
[2016-02-04 14:13:19] elmorte : sleger: Thanks, noted!
[2016-02-04 14:29:25] zanza : DPE disappeared, but price never hit 379 ?
[2016-02-04 14:30:16] zanza : they must have changed their algorithm
[2016-02-04 14:35:21] j8 : zanza: unfilled liq's are moved around by the system, was always this way
[2016-02-04 14:39:29] zanza : then how come there has been DPE in the past?
[2016-02-04 14:44:33] sleger : because the price was at a level that created a loss
[2016-02-04 14:44:42] sleger : the "fair" price
[2016-02-04 14:45:34] sleger : poor rapidtrades, he must be crying
[2016-02-04 14:46:23] chromaticcr : almost Chinese newyear, time to place bets on CNY
[2016-02-04 15:05:19] sleger : No need to be rapid, better have the right direction
[2016-02-04 15:24:11] Lel : lel
[2016-02-04 15:28:09] Lel : yawn
[2016-02-04 15:35:11] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 1599 @ 386.26
[2016-02-04 15:36:58] zanza : https://twitter.com/MartinShkreli/status/695264859907317761
[2016-02-04 15:44:48] rapidtrades : He has speaketh
[2016-02-04 15:49:29] zanza : rofl
[2016-02-04 15:52:49] tscha : cool, tradeblock api offers real-time trading data from 25 exchanges including full orderbooks from each exchange
[2016-02-04 16:05:52] Lel : tradeblock seems to do everything right
[2016-02-04 16:19:43] BitMEX_Sam : Their streaming data is really nice
[2016-02-04 16:25:36] elmorte : How can you tell when there is DPE?
[2016-02-04 16:26:47] lockhedge : tscha: it's not close to real-time, it's actually delayed data via TradeBlock's "proxy" server in the US, don't see any added value to get data that was sent e.g. from Bitfinex in Milan via NYC back to Europe
[2016-02-04 16:27:29] elmorte : How's it compared to bitcoinwisdom?
[2016-02-04 16:27:53] tscha : elmorte: hover over the "i" sign in contract details where it says 0.00%
[2016-02-04 16:28:27] elmorte : tscha: cheeeerrs!
[2016-02-04 16:30:14] lockhedge : elmorte: i once compared cryptowat.ch to the direct BitMEX websocket API, had very ofter >2 seconds latency via cryptowat.ch, guess it will be the same with bitcoinwisdom
[2016-02-04 16:30:45] lockhedge : better always cut the middleman when it's about getting data fast...
[2016-02-04 16:31:23] elmorte : True. I'm guessing you're talking automated trading, I can't manually process a transaction that fast :)
[2016-02-04 16:33:39] lockhedge : 2 seconds would already be relevant for human trading, especially in situations when volatility is high. latency*volatility=transaction costs
[2016-02-04 16:35:56] elmorte : I agree. Just that last time I tried to react to the market, I shorted 3000 contracts instead of going long, ended up closing a position in a loss instead of doubling down... So I tend to think things thru for longer than 2 secs now...
[2016-02-04 16:37:39] elmorte : Sorry for the anecdote irrelevant to anyone else :/
[2016-02-04 16:37:44] j8 : then you have 2 more seconds to think :) but yeah if you normally take 5 minutes it's negligible
[2016-02-04 16:37:57] lockhedge : example for Tradeblock data delays: Bitfinex was at $409, TB said it's $405 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVvZEVFXAAExLyx.png:large
[2016-02-04 16:39:18] lockhedge : so almost 1% additional transaction costs if you look at the wrong (delayed) data and trade in that moment
[2016-02-04 16:39:28] elmorte : Yup, nice one
[2016-02-04 16:40:31] elmorte : What's the ssh connected to? Your own creation?
[2016-02-04 16:44:15] lockhedge : yes, it's my mm bot's reference index now open sourced as BIX (still as well sometimes up to about 1200ms latency but faster than TB) https://github.com/robotfinance/BIX https://robotfinance.org/bix/
[2016-02-04 16:48:10] elmorte : Cheers bud, been wanting to learn more
[2016-02-04 16:50:39] elmorte : Quick question, where do you source the forex rates from?
[2016-02-04 16:53:15] lockhedge : i will open source that part (open FX index) as well soon, spot rate is currently an index that is based on public data (reuters, bloomberg, yahoo finance) - the version on gitub is a bit outdated
[2016-02-04 16:53:38] elmorte : Ok
[2016-02-04 16:58:38] elmorte : Anyone here get into the game real early? Like single or double digits US$ early?
[2016-02-04 17:02:37] lockhedge : i bought my first XBT at a price of $8 or $9, but it was only a very small amount just to test how Bitcoin works, sold at about $800
[2016-02-04 17:03:03] elmorte : Wow...
[2016-02-04 17:03:11] elmorte : Where did you transact back then?
[2016-02-04 17:04:41] lockhedge : i bought it at virwox using paypal i think with about 10% fees
[2016-02-04 17:05:50] elmorte : No chargeback fears back then?
[2016-02-04 17:06:26] lockhedge : you can still buy with paypal there...
[2016-02-04 17:07:09] elmorte : Yeah, I just realized :|
[2016-02-04 17:08:17] sleger : any news for this pump ?
[2016-02-04 17:13:02] lockhedge : sleger: XBT got more expensive in USD, not so much effect if you pay in EUR or CNY, so i'd guess the weak USD is mainly responsible for this price adjustment
[2016-02-04 17:14:24] arbitrage001 : volatility is good news for arbitraguer
[2016-02-04 17:22:05] sleger : lockhedge: yes part of it is, but you can see the same jump on btceur pricec
[2016-02-04 17:34:59] rapidtrades : news? u mean like the news behind the rally from $300>$500?
[2016-02-04 17:35:25] rapidtrades : or the one after from $300 to $460?
[2016-02-04 17:36:38] sleger : there are reasons sometimes, like hearn blog which crashed the price
[2016-02-04 17:38:24] rapidtrades : oh dear....
[2016-02-04 17:40:32] elmorte : There's a finite definition to news, no? :p
[2016-02-04 17:44:32] habibi : if sleger asks abou news that means he is short
[2016-02-04 17:46:02] rapidtrades : :)
[2016-02-04 17:46:12] rapidtrades : short buddies!
[2016-02-04 17:53:51] sleger : habibi: no. But I really wonder if there is any trial of reasoning behind that conclusion ?
[2016-02-04 17:54:41] sleger : Last time I said my position here I had a tiny long, my overall delta position only fluctuated between that and flat.
[2016-02-04 17:54:51] habibi : nah, just blind guess ;)
[2016-02-04 17:55:39] sleger : I would not be really long until this block size debate comes somewhat to a conclusion
[2016-02-04 17:55:42] arbitrage001 : what tool you used to calculate delta?
[2016-02-04 17:55:55] sleger : my brain cells, very powerful stuff
[2016-02-04 17:56:23] arbitrage001 : have a net short position, but the pump have little effect on my overall usd value
[2016-02-04 17:56:24] habibi : sleger: yea they came to conclusion
[2016-02-04 17:57:21] habibi : https://github.com/gavinandresen/bips/blob/92e1efd0493c1cbde47304c9711f13f413cc9099/bip-bump2mb.mediawiki
[2016-02-04 17:57:49] sleger : but it was not pushed or accepted by miners yet ?
[2016-02-04 17:59:56] habibi : chinese miners supports 2mb, they supports bitcoin core as well so its only matter of time imo
[2016-02-04 18:01:33] elmorte : sleger: Agree with holding off on long till the mess clears itself up.
[2016-02-04 18:01:59] elmorte : But;s it;s been weeks mofos....
[2016-02-04 18:07:51] tscha : finally an exciting trading evening again
[2016-02-04 18:21:55] elmorte : BitMEX_Sam: How long till new order types go live?
[2016-02-04 18:22:14] BitMEX_Sam : elmorte: Hoping soon via the API, we're working on a new contract as well
[2016-02-04 18:22:19] BitMEX_Sam : Next release will be our biggest ever
[2016-02-04 18:22:26] tscha : yeyyy
[2016-02-04 18:22:33] BitMEX_Sam : I've already merged most of the frontend updates and they're already live, you should see much improved performance
[2016-02-04 18:22:41] BitMEX_Sam : Mostly behind-the-scenes reliability/perf updates.
[2016-02-04 18:22:54] elmorte : Cheers bud, appreciated
[2016-02-04 18:23:06] elmorte : I was more asking about the order types
[2016-02-04 18:23:11] BitMEX_Sam : Yep,
[2016-02-04 18:23:13] BitMEX_Sam : Well there's two steps.
[2016-02-04 18:23:28] lockhedge : BitMEX_Sam: new contract? maybe XBT/CNY?
[2016-02-04 18:23:31] BitMEX_Sam : It'll hit the API probably a week before it hits the interface.
[2016-02-04 18:23:41] BitMEX_Sam : lockhedge: Can't announce anything yet but we will soon
[2016-02-04 18:24:13] tscha : lockhedge: I think they mentioned a 48h contract. But we'll see soon enough.
[2016-02-04 18:24:14] BitMEX_Sam : We're also doing some big interface updates because the new order types require a redesigned order controls panel
[2016-02-04 18:24:36] sleger : well thats not the 48h contract since this one was announced
[2016-02-04 18:24:37] elmorte : Just a bunch of new tabs, no?
[2016-02-04 18:24:41] elmorte : I kid I kid :)
[2016-02-04 18:24:43] BitMEX_Sam : We'll have Stop Market, Hidden orders, and likely OCO hit first
[2016-02-04 18:24:43] sleger : I would bet on xbtcny as well
[2016-02-04 18:24:55] elmorte : Looking forward to OCO
[2016-02-04 18:25:04] lockhedge : tscha: sounds interesting as well, a XBT/EUR contract would be nice, but i fear there's not enough demand
[2016-02-04 18:25:07] BitMEX_Sam : Technically you can do very complex strategies with OCO/OTO via the API
[2016-02-04 18:25:29] BitMEX_Sam : You can link any number of orders together - I believe Wally talked about this a week or so ago
[2016-02-04 18:25:30] sleger : we can always do everything with limit orders via API ;)
[2016-02-04 18:25:51] elmorte : Yeah, some of us are still GUI slaves
[2016-02-04 18:25:53] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah. And it'll be much easier with the new bulk endpoint
[2016-02-04 18:26:28] BitMEX_Sam : Yeah. In general the API will usually have more advanced features than the GUI just because we're limited in implementation time - but I'm working on the new types full-time right now
[2016-02-04 18:26:57] elmorte : Without giving away anything p&c....how many active traders are there atm?
[2016-02-04 18:27:12] lockhedge : you could multiply liquidity on different books as market maker with OCO - will be an interesting experiment
[2016-02-04 18:28:37] BitMEX_Sam : elmorte: Can't give out complete stats, but of course we publish connected user counts as above.
[2016-02-04 18:29:07] elmorte : Users and Bots part? Does one include the other?
[2016-02-04 18:31:41] lockhedge : elmorte: you can assume that most of the passive orders (in the book) are from bots, as on every traditional exchange
[2016-02-04 18:32:44] elmorte : Understood, Was more wondering about this figure: Users: 230 Bots: 194 Users = Bots + noBots?
[2016-02-04 18:34:07] elmorte : simplified of course, assuming no more than 1 bot per user
[2016-02-04 18:39:23] BitMEX_Sam : elmorte: They are separate
[2016-02-04 18:39:48] BitMEX_Sam : So you would add them. We count them by connections to the WebSocket - it's easy to tell who is on the site and who is accessing the API raw based on behavior
[2016-02-04 18:40:11] BitMEX_Sam : So your calculation above is correct.
[2016-02-04 18:40:40] BitMEX_Sam : Or... sorry - misread - your calculation above is incorrect. Would be 424 users in total right now.
[2016-02-04 18:41:22] elmorte : 239 + 194 = 424
[2016-02-04 18:41:33] elmorte : 230*
[2016-02-04 18:41:44] elmorte : Sorry, stupid keyboard
[2016-02-04 18:41:57] BitMEX_Sam : :)
[2016-02-04 18:42:27] elmorte : So...even is users run bots, you count them separately?
[2016-02-04 18:42:38] elmorte : I'm just curious, no malice intended
[2016-02-04 18:45:53] BitMEX_Sam : Yes, they're counted separately
[2016-02-04 18:55:07] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 10900 @ 385.39
[2016-02-04 18:56:51] elmorte : Noted
[2016-02-04 19:02:54] habibi : if all of this people would play activly playing on 24h, average position would be like 400 contracts long/short
[2016-02-04 19:07:32] tscha : BitMEX_Sam: you mentioned that users will be able to post stats in the trollbox :D ytd pnl too or just daily?
[2016-02-04 19:07:54] BitMEX_Sam : tscha: We haven't yet decided on what the features will be but we're open to it.
[2016-02-04 19:09:23] elmorte : Weight, height and shoe size are in the top 5 though, right?
[2016-02-04 19:09:48] tscha : ytd would be cool imho. but from the economic perspective, daily pnl only would be best for you since traders would then be incentivized to take more risk so they can brag in trollbox :D ?
[2016-02-04 19:10:08] lockhedge : BitMEX_Sam: not important at all, but may i suggest renaming the Trollbox to Chat
[2016-02-04 19:10:22] tscha : lockhedge: nooo... are you crazy? why?
[2016-02-04 19:10:59] elmorte : I only opened "Trollbox" bY accident (was on mobile)
[2016-02-04 19:11:00] lockhedge : tscha: less incentive for trolling ;)
[2016-02-04 19:11:53] lockhedge : it's actually not a Trollbox if you get support by other traders and staff here....
[2016-02-04 19:12:44] elmorte : Spot on @lockhedge
[2016-02-04 19:13:19] elmorte : Other trollboxes resemble YouTube comment stream...
[2016-02-04 19:13:49] lockhedge : and it's actually the most interesting chatroom about Bitcoin trading i know, it could be even a marketing feature of BitMEX
[2016-02-04 19:14:02] zanza : we can change that
[2016-02-04 19:14:05] elmorte : Word
[2016-02-04 19:14:29] elmorte : zanza: Who you replying to?
[2016-02-04 19:14:37] zanza : both つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
[2016-02-04 19:14:46] elmorte : :p
[2016-02-04 19:14:51] zanza : <:::::]= ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)ง FOR THE WATCH
[2016-02-04 19:14:55] lockhedge : :)
[2016-02-04 19:15:27] tscha : I don't think its good marketing when they start taking themselves too seriously. I think trollbox fits perfectly, but that's just my two cents. Maybe BitMEX_Sam implements a small user-voting-system for some decisions made :D
[2016-02-04 19:17:06] BitMEX_Sam : We enjoy the name.
[2016-02-04 19:17:13] BitMEX_Sam : The Trollbox should be open by default for new users though.
[2016-02-04 19:17:27] elmorte : I agree...it's just that Trollbox is overused on other sites and it's literally a bunch of incoherent conversations\
[2016-02-04 19:17:40] tscha : elmorte: yeah, same as here
[2016-02-04 19:18:19] elmorte : No man @tscha ...I actually get answers here without someone calling me a fag
[2016-02-04 19:18:33] tscha : elmorte: haaaaave you met rapidtrades?
[2016-02-04 19:18:52] BitMEX_Sam : He's calmed down lately
[2016-02-04 19:19:08] elmorte : Yeah, lovely person dealing with personal issues. I do hope they let him out of the institution soon
[2016-02-04 19:19:45] lockhedge : tscha: only difference to many other Trollboxes is that here you really get support (also by other users) - maybe Sam's idea is a good compromise to invite more of the 227 humans here
[2016-02-04 19:20:44] elmorte : rapid's first words to me were: I don't mean to tell you what to do, but maybe you should try with 1 contract at a time till you learn the platform]
[2016-02-04 19:21:10] elmorte : I mean....that's soild advice
[2016-02-04 19:22:32] elmorte : I did sell my mother and my house based on his advice, but that's just temporary inconvenience for them
[2016-02-04 19:22:41] zanza : he is our leader
[2016-02-04 19:22:56] j8 : that's relatively good behaviour for rapid, it used to be a lot of cursing and all caps
[2016-02-04 19:22:57] tscha : Titles like "chat" or "support" are just too boring, would never click on such a tab unless I am having serious problems. Trollbox on the other hand incentivizes people to chat more since it's more casual
[2016-02-04 19:24:42] elmorte : Yeah, it's kinda hard to go wrong on the :trollbox"
[2016-02-04 19:26:26] elmorte : Everyone here based in North America?
[2016-02-04 19:26:40] elmorte : (like above Mexico)
[2016-02-04 19:28:15] lockhedge : tscha: how about Tschat?
[2016-02-04 19:28:35] tscha : lockhedge: ?
[2016-02-04 19:31:05] lockhedge : best solution would be to individually choose the name of this box in your preferences. i fear this won't be a priority feature to implement though
[2016-02-04 19:33:40] tscha : lol...
[2016-02-04 19:34:01] lockhedge : tsch.at is not registered yet, just sayin'...
[2016-02-04 19:35:22] tscha : would work if we had 1995 and I'd start a chatroom platform
[2016-02-04 19:52:38] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 103 @ 387.56
[2016-02-04 20:00:47] tscha : I like the new withheld-profit-system
[2016-02-04 20:11:16] lockhedge : tscha: +1
[2016-02-04 20:37:08] tscha : next 4 hours going to get interesting
[2016-02-04 20:37:39] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 100 @ 389.94
[2016-02-04 20:49:22] justinlooking : well hello there
[2016-02-04 20:53:30] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 169 @ 391.73
[2016-02-04 20:53:48] tscha : justinlooking: hey hey
[2016-02-04 20:54:30] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 1139 @ 393.34
[2016-02-04 21:09:11] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 11000 @ 392.75
[2016-02-04 21:16:11] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 4000 @ 388.17
[2016-02-04 21:16:11] REKT : Choppy waters make solid seamen!
[2016-02-04 21:19:11] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 343 @ 387.15
[2016-02-04 21:27:34] tscha : justinlooking: everything ok tradingwise?
[2016-02-04 21:27:57] tscha : havent seen you for some time here :) job?
[2016-02-04 21:52:29] justinlooking : haven't actively traded recently, getting withdrawls
[2016-02-04 22:02:39] tscha : withdrawing might not be the worst idea now. kinda unsure of price development, on the one hand VCs are pumping in lots of capital at the moment and adoption seems to move forward, on the other hand bitcoin development has internal problems... next months are going to be interesting, that's for sure
[2016-02-04 22:08:28] tscha : pboc action the next weeks will be a factor too
[2016-02-04 22:18:13] lockhedge : seems like a strong morning in China today, Chinese XBT premium is getting higher again
[2016-02-04 22:23:25] tscha : The thing I hate most about bitcoin-trading is that most of the action happens during China-mornings which means nighttime in Europe
[2016-02-04 22:24:35] habibi : not really tscha
[2016-02-04 22:24:56] habibi : lately action in china was hapening @evening china
[2016-02-04 22:25:12] habibi : even today's pump was kinda late evening
[2016-02-04 22:25:46] habibi : better to get sleep earlier eu time and wake up like 5-6 am
[2016-02-04 22:26:26] habibi : these days*
[2016-02-04 22:26:46] tscha : still most of movements are china mornings... check out last 5 weeks for example: https://cryptowat.ch/bitfinex/btcusd/1h
[2016-02-04 22:28:06] tscha : there are exceptions obviously, but most is happening at 23-24 utc
[2016-02-04 22:31:05] tscha : look at last 3 big downmoves from 28th january to 2th february, all 3 started between 23:00 and 01:00 utc
[2016-02-04 22:39:33] REKT : Liquidated short on `XBT24H`: Buy 1319 @ 390.42
[2016-02-04 22:39:33] REKT : Close your longs, close your shorts, choppy waters ahead!
[2016-02-04 22:56:13] micmix : 1.5k coins for sale @389 on Bitstamp, anyone interested?
[2016-02-04 22:58:28] tscha : they'll probably get chopped soon :)
[2016-02-04 23:00:58] rapidtrades : justinlooking: what site do you guys use for withdrawals? finex needs like 4 separate docs lol
[2016-02-04 23:06:07] sleger : that's a problem if you lied about your residence maybe but i dont see the issue with a couple of forms
[2016-02-04 23:11:12] habibi : even if did, u can still fix it in peacefull way
[2016-02-04 23:12:23] habibi : and rapidtrades back to withdraws, in polish u can sell btcs on exchange and pay about 2.5$ for withdrawing 500$ directly from atm
[2016-02-04 23:12:53] habibi : with no id verification or any other
[2016-02-04 23:13:14] rapidtrades : what does 'in polish' mean
[2016-02-04 23:13:27] rapidtrades : like polish bank account or what
[2016-02-04 23:13:59] tscha : rapidtrades: change language on finex to polish
[2016-02-04 23:14:05] habibi : in polish exchanges
[2016-02-04 23:14:09] tscha : :)
[2016-02-04 23:14:59] habibi : u just input some pin codes on atm that u received from exchange and there u go. up to 2k usd per 24h
[2016-02-04 23:15:20] rapidtrades : habibi: im not in Polnad though lol
[2016-02-04 23:15:38] habibi : i heard that they have same option on ukraine :D
[2016-02-04 23:15:53] habibi : or just use localbitcoins
[2016-02-04 23:16:05] rapidtrades : anyone sold on local bitcoins? prices can't be beat but not sure how long wil I have to wait to find buyers
[2016-02-04 23:16:35] sleger : it depends where you are...
[2016-02-04 23:18:42] habibi : even Ryan Kennedy aka Alex Green was selling mintpal coins thru localbitcoins :)
[2016-02-04 23:44:05] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 2700 @ 390.20
[2016-02-05 00:06:05] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 100 @ 387.73
[2016-02-05 01:38:48] zanza : Ryan Kennedy is a captain of industry
[2016-02-05 01:40:15] rapidtrades : any man who has two first names should be well respected imo
[2016-02-05 03:03:40] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 100 @ 386.23
[2016-02-05 03:08:30] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 750 @ 385.82
[2016-02-05 04:52:18] zanza : http://www.coindesk.com/digital-currency-exchange-cryptsy-ceos-wife-asset-documents/?utm_content=buffer59fa7
[2016-02-05 05:04:07] rapidtrades : zanza: well shit...
[2016-02-05 07:01:37] REKT : Liquidated long on `XBT24H`: Sell 1000 @ 385.14
[2016-02-05 08:07:30] dogehookers : hey guys, I've got "Withheld profit" shown as RED bar -0.1493 is it loss forever?
[2016-02-05 08:10:13] BitMEX_Arthur : No it will be released to you for settlement or weekly rebalance
[2016-02-05 08:10:33] BitMEX_Arthur : https://www.bitmex.com/app/dynamicProfitEqualisation
[2016-02-05 08:10:46] BitMEX_Arthur : Read that it explains the reasoning behind it
[2016-02-05 08:43:29] blackwhite : Where do we move next? Your opinions guys?
[2016-02-05 10:47:20] arbitrage001 : nobody know
[2016-02-05 11:30:21] rapidtrades : if we rally during calc I will be super-pissed
[2016-02-05 11:31:07] rapidtrades : if we drop I will be super-glad
[2016-02-05 11:35:54] tscha : blackwhite: *nobody knows* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAQA_29Htts
[2016-02-05 11:39:55] slavo : a biweekly would be nice
[2016-02-05 11:43:33] rapidtrades : would it sledger?
[2016-02-05 12:57:36] sleger : no I just want a 48h that becomes 24h after ... well 24h
[2016-02-05 12:58:47] BitMEX_Wally : sleger: That's exactly what we'll do
[2016-02-05 12:59:03] BitMEX_Wally : Plus a calendar spread instrument between them so you only pay 1 lot of fees to roll
[2016-02-05 12:59:14] sleger : Oh you are going to try that...
[2016-02-05 12:59:51] sleger : I think it is a good idea, it would be much needed if most traders in bitcoin were smart enough, but I am really not sure it is going to be used enough.
[2016-02-05 13:07:16] BitMEX_Wally : We might add an easy "Do you want to roll?" option
[2016-02-05 13:07:30] BitMEX_Wally : "Click here to roll your position for +$x"
[2016-02-05 13:08:45] BitMEX_Wally : Where $x is the depth weighted price of the calendar spread offer
[2016-02-05 13:35:21] tscha : BitMEX_Wally: +1
[2016-02-05 13:36:11] BitMEX_Wally : But first, we hope to roll out API changes and start enabling advanced order types one by one
[2016-02-05 13:39:49] tscha : I noticed that since I think yesterday, the page seems to get stuck somestimes at the jumping Bitmex-logo when reloading. Happens both on tablet and desktop (chrome). Could wait 1-2 minutes and nothing happens, but clicking manually reload solves the issue mostly
[2016-02-05 13:56:48] sleger : Well since we are talking about that I should mention : on a macbook pro (latest and most powerful one) bitmex makes safari crash completely, every single time.
[2016-02-05 13:57:23] sleger : On a windows 7 desktop I have at work, I can launch bitmex ONLY on firefox (fails on chrome and IE)
[2016-02-05 13:58:20] BitMEX_Wally : Sam will be online soon, could you help give him some diagnostic information ?
[2016-02-05 14:02:04] sleger : Sure, can you help bring the settlement fees to where they should (logically) be ? @BitMEX_Wally
[2016-02-05 14:03:04] BitMEX_Wally : You will be the first to hear about any planned fee changes
[2016-02-05 14:05:37] laisee : BitMEX_Wally: second that comment on Safari UX on OSX. It's a lot slower than FF, though not crashing.
[2016-02-05 14:05:41] sleger : the roll feature will actually provide a solution
[2016-02-05 14:17:56] BitMEX_Sam : sleger: Looking into the crashing now
[2016-02-05 14:19:15] BitMEX_Sam : Is there a certain amount of time after which it crashes?
[2016-02-05 14:19:28] sleger : i rebooted and updated my computer last night and it doesnt crash anymore (just tried) @BitMEX_Sam
[2016-02-05 14:19:38] BitMEX_Sam : sleger: Good to hear
[2016-02-05 14:20:06] sleger : but no, the problem was at launch of safari, it would automatically load it (cause it was open before) and the guest screen would be half open when safari would become unresponsive
[2016-02-05 14:20:34] sleger : on the win7 the issue is different, I can enter the login details, then there is a splash page with the logo bouncing once and it just stays there
[2016-02-05 14:24:01] BitMEX_Sam : Okay - I've seen that happen due to improper caching of the page, essentially it loads JS that's no longer present since we hash asset urls
[2016-02-05 14:24:13] BitMEX_Sam : I'm going to boot up a win7 machine and take a look
[2016-02-05 14:24:30] BitMEX_Sam : Do you know the Chrome/IE versions?
[2016-02-05 14:26:03] tscha : BitMEX_Sam: Chrome Version 48.0.2564.97m, have to leave now though, brb later
[2016-02-05 14:45:20] sleger : BitMEX_Sam: well I just tried (hadnt for a couple of weeks since it never worked) and it works now...
[2016-02-05 14:45:35] BitMEX_Sam : Oh good - we released some pretty large updates yesterday
[2016-02-05 14:45:43] BitMEX_Sam : More to come, yesterday was all internals
[2016-02-05 14:50:37] arbitrage001 : any plan for bitmex ipo?
[2016-02-05 14:52:26] BitMEX_Wally : If you want to invest then email info@bitmex.com
[2016-02-05 14:53:53] sleger : BitMEX_Wally: seriously ?
[2016-02-05 14:54:37] arbitrage001 : just sent an email
[2016-02-05 14:54:45] arbitrage001 : slegar, you interested as well?
[2016-02-05 14:55:24] sleger : you know, that's a question nobody can answer with so few details... 90% of bitmex for 1 btc yes I buy, 0.1% for 10000btc no I dont
[2016-02-05 14:55:39] arbitrage001 : i see
[2016-02-05 14:55:46] sleger : however they should mention min investment of x0,000$ to avoid receiving tons of emails of people who want to invest 1 btc...
[2016-02-05 14:55:56] arbitrage001 : waiting for their reply
[2016-02-05 14:56:10] BitMEX_Wally : sleger: Yes, we're not advertising
[2016-02-05 14:56:18] arbitrage001 : i remembered asking bitfinex when mtgox was still around
[2016-02-05 14:56:34] arbitrage001 : when bitfinex was small, they still flat out refuse
[2016-02-05 14:57:05] BitMEX_Wally : Serious investors (i.e. $100,000 or above) can email info@bitmex.com
[2016-02-05 15:03:13] arbitrage001 : out of my league then
[2016-02-05 15:04:00] arbitrage001 : but if the yield is good, might considered
[2016-02-05 15:16:33] elmorte : I can't even remember how I came to know about BitMEX..
[2016-02-05 15:17:50] elmorte : Either Google ad, or a link from another BTC site
[2016-02-05 15:18:06] elmorte : BitMEX_Wally: What would you need that much capital for?
[2016-02-05 15:19:10] BitMEX_Wally : $100k is barely enough for a decent JS developer for 1 year...
[2016-02-05 15:19:41] elmorte : Yes, but you'd expect to pay salaries from operating income, no?
[2016-02-05 15:20:12] elmorte : Otherwise you're running at a loss...
[2016-02-05 15:20:31] BitMEX_Wally : Yes, but capital can help a startup grow faster
[2016-02-05 15:20:53] elmorte : I understand, but how would you use it?
[2016-02-05 15:21:51] BitMEX_Wally : More staff, more features, more marketing, etc etc
[2016-02-05 15:22:55] elmorte : Ok. That's not possible at the current set-up?
[2016-02-05 15:23:47] BitMEX_Wally : Of course, and we are doing it. But capital is to accelerate growth...
[2016-02-05 15:24:01] BitMEX_Wally : Coinbase has raised $100m and they have an operating loss every year....
[2016-02-05 15:24:11] BitMEX_Wally : But they have 3 million customers
[2016-02-05 15:25:45] elmorte : See, I don't understand what the shareholders get from that then...shouldn't a sustainable venture be the aim, not just raising investment?
[2016-02-05 15:26:11] elmorte : The latter just sounds like an exit scam, to be blunt...
[2016-02-05 15:26:18] arbitrage001 : early investors are called angel investors for a reason
[2016-02-05 15:26:51] arbitrage001 : facebook and google didnt turn profit for a long long time
[2016-02-05 15:26:57] arbitrage001 : even after ipo
[2016-02-05 15:27:53] elmorte : And yet the stock price blew up, so no one worried
[2016-02-05 15:28:10] arbitrage001 : nope at first
[2016-02-05 15:28:28] arbitrage001 : look at the recent ipo
[2016-02-05 15:28:30] arbitrage001 : alibaba
[2016-02-05 15:28:49] arbitrage001 : went down by 50% of ipo price?
[2016-02-05 15:28:57] elmorte : I know the ipo killed it...haven't followed up
[2016-02-05 15:29:20] arbitrage001 : when facebook hit $40
[2016-02-05 15:29:27] BitMEX_Wally : elmorte: Sounds like you wouldn't invest seed, angel, series A, series B, in any startup?
[2016-02-05 15:29:28] arbitrage001 : most people thought it is finished
[2016-02-05 15:29:43] BitMEX_Wally : You'd wait until the startup had IPOd and was profitable?
[2016-02-05 15:29:55] BitMEX_Wally : Then you would invest at a price 1000x what you could have invested at?
[2016-02-05 15:30:16] sleger : sounds like he would have invested in RACE for instance
[2016-02-05 15:30:28] elmorte : BitMEX_Wally: No, I'm not trying to be a sceptic, but I'd like to know the mentality of the people running the venture :)
[2016-02-05 15:30:37] BitMEX_Wally : The mentality of running a startup?
[2016-02-05 15:30:46] elmorte : THat too
[2016-02-05 15:30:53] BitMEX_Wally : The goal is growth
[2016-02-05 15:30:53] arbitrage001 : high failure rate
[2016-02-05 15:30:56] elmorte : One day I might want to run my own
[2016-02-05 15:31:12] elmorte : BitMEX_Wally: Exactly! That's my view as well
[2016-02-05 15:31:59] BitMEX_Wally : It's not an exit scam to invest in a startup, the founder's shares are diluted and the money goes into the startup... to hire staff and grow
[2016-02-05 15:33:00] elmorte : By exit scam, I meant build up a company with weak fundamentals, raise money and cash out
[2016-02-05 15:33:54] sleger : that's why investors due something called due deligence
[2016-02-05 15:33:57] elmorte : Rather than build company thru organic growth and use investment to further those goals
[2016-02-05 15:34:56] elmorte : But if my business raised $1m today, I'd have no use for it...maybe $100k. Which is why I was asking what you would do with it in your situation
[2016-02-05 15:35:10] BitMEX_Wally : 90% of startups don't even become profitable, so there would be no growth all if they only grew organically
[2016-02-05 15:35:34] BitMEX_Wally : And then the 10% would not exist because they never grew big enough to become profitable...
[2016-02-05 15:37:00] elmorte : Is being big a prerequisite to being profitable in your opinion?
[2016-02-05 15:37:41] BitMEX_Wally : No, but if you want to afford more than 2 staff it is
[2016-02-05 15:38:43] elmorte : Yes, I'm just picking your brain, I find it fascinating really.
[2016-02-05 15:38:49] elmorte : And I think you have a really good thing going here
[2016-02-05 15:38:59] BitMEX_Wally : BitMEX has grown 10x in the last 6 months. Could have been 50x if we had more resources
[2016-02-05 15:39:25] arbitrage001 : should focus your marketing on bitcointalk rather than google
[2016-02-05 15:39:29] BitMEX_Wally : https://www.techinasia.com/goldman-sachs-bitcoin-bitmex/
[2016-02-05 15:40:28] elmorte : Holy crap! That could be my referral
[2016-02-05 15:40:31] arbitrage001 : Arthur has IT background?
[2016-02-05 15:40:35] elmorte : THat, or one of the spinoff articles
[2016-02-05 15:42:10] BitMEX_Wally : arbitrage001: The article says Arthur graduated from Wharton Business School
[2016-02-05 15:42:47] arbitrage001 : just curious how he come up with such nice platform
[2016-02-05 15:43:09] BitMEX_Wally : He found the right co-founders
[2016-02-05 15:43:12] arbitrage001 : i see
[2016-02-05 15:43:20] arbitrage001 : bitstamp, bitfinex and btcchina
[2016-02-05 15:43:30] arbitrage001 : all have weak frontend developers
[2016-02-05 15:43:32] elmorte : It's a piece of cake to use and super user friendly
[2016-02-05 15:44:31] elmorte : Like I fell asleep last night with an open position and woke up to almost 0.2 BTC profit
[2016-02-05 15:45:09] elmorte : Funny thing is I remember closing all my positions before sleep...
[2016-02-05 15:45:52] sleger : and that's WHY bitmex is so good according to you ?
[2016-02-05 15:45:55] lockhedge : BitMEX_Wally: you are aiming to raise $2 million in Series A, so the valuation is $6-$12m?
[2016-02-05 15:46:18] elmorte : sleger: tongue in cheek buddy
[2016-02-05 15:46:50] BitMEX_Wally : lockhedge: Email info@bitmex.com and Arthur will be in touch to discuss valuation
[2016-02-05 15:47:13] elmorte : I forgot about it coz I had a few too many glasses of scotch
[2016-02-05 15:57:51] elmorte : But if you want me, as a user to be perfectly honest as to why I like the platform: - depositing - piece of cake, so a very low barrier of entry - have not tried withdrawing yet, i'll presume it's the same - No obfuscation of information, you get access to whatever is relevant - The admins are easily accessible and tell you what you want to know, in a way you want to hear it
[2016-02-05 15:58:05] elmorte : - reasonable fees
[2016-02-05 15:58:13] BitMEX_Wally : elmorte: Great to have the feedback :)
[2016-02-05 15:58:25] elmorte : A maker fee actually stimulates liquidity
[2016-02-05 15:58:35] lockhedge : BitMEX_Wally: couldn't afford a 100k investment in a startup. i would have to make at least 50 100k then to be diversified enough ;) but i'm sure $1m profit ($2m revenue) a year is very probable in the near future, guess you could even reach $1m this year. good luck!
[2016-02-05 15:58:36] sleger : withdrawals is actually the worst here, but that provides extra security
[2016-02-05 15:59:22] sleger : admins being accessible is actually great and unique
[2016-02-05 15:59:23] elmorte : No worries @BitMEX_Wally , don't want to come across as some grinch, some things I'm not afraid to show I'm igonrant about
[2016-02-05 16:00:58] elmorte : And 50% of us here are ppl...I just wanna know what makes everyone tick
[2016-02-05 16:04:00] elmorte : How many of you would like bitcoin to succeed and become mainstream, not because you're vested in it, but for the romantic reasons, like the underlying technology behind it?
[2016-02-05 16:05:52] elmorte : Guessing @lockhedge does, he was an early entrant
[2016-02-05 16:06:20] BitMEX_Wally : I would like to see it succeed, as a disruptive technology
[2016-02-05 16:06:48] elmorte : Indeed
[2016-02-05 16:08:57] arbitrage001 : usd and rmb will have its own blockchain and coin
[2016-02-05 16:09:04] arbitrage001 : same for UK
[2016-02-05 16:09:41] arbitrage001 : hard for bitcoin to become "the" coin
[2016-02-05 16:09:57] elmorte : What does that mean though? So they have a ledger...but can you open a CNY coin account outside of China?
[2016-02-05 16:10:07] elmorte : *wallet
[2016-02-05 16:10:19] arbitrage001 : as china open up, they will need to
[2016-02-05 16:10:40] elmorte : They've been opening up for 46 years
[2016-02-05 16:12:37] elmorte : How will banks adapt? @arbitrage001
[2016-02-05 16:13:04] arbitrage001 : by going bust?
[2016-02-05 16:13:07] arbitrage001 : lol
[2016-02-05 16:13:26] elmorte : lol...is that a foreseeable scenario?
[2016-02-05 16:13:29] arbitrage001 : bitcoin alone already bypass a lot of financial institution for sendin money
[2016-02-05 16:13:40] arbitrage001 : and cutting off middle man
[2016-02-05 16:13:45] elmorte : Exactly, that the beauty of it
[2016-02-05 16:14:02] elmorte : So if the govts implement the same system....what happens to the banks?
[2016-02-05 16:14:23] arbitrage001 : think many banks will o bust
[2016-02-05 16:14:27] arbitrage001 : go
[2016-02-05 16:14:55] arbitrage001 : consolidate
[2016-02-05 16:14:58] elmorte : I don't think that's a feasible outcome. They will fight tooth n nail to get a slice
[2016-02-05 16:15:02] arbitrage001 : like car companies
[2016-02-05 16:15:14] arbitrage001 : or railroad ocmpanies before it
[2016-02-05 16:15:25] elmorte : explain the car analogy plz?
[2016-02-05 16:15:53] arbitrage001 : you read economic histtory?
[2016-02-05 16:16:07] elmorte : Yes, but not exclusively US
[2016-02-05 16:16:07] arbitrage001 : dotcom bubble, car , railroad, radio
[2016-02-05 16:16:18] arbitrage001 : industry revolution
[2016-02-05 16:16:24] elmorte : dotcom bubble != rest
[2016-02-05 16:16:35] elmorte : car industry is far from dead
[2016-02-05 16:16:37] arbitrage001 : last decade was finance sector bubble
[2016-02-05 16:16:50] elmorte : And finance is still going strong
[2016-02-05 16:16:59] arbitrage001 : during bubble phases
[2016-02-05 16:16:59] elmorte : Because they are roaches...
[2016-02-05 16:17:11] elmorte : nuklear strike wouldn't kill'em
[2016-02-05 16:17:37] arbitrage001 : there will be lots of companies competiting doing essentially same thin
[2016-02-05 16:18:00] arbitrage001 : after bubble bust, only 2-3 companies remain
[2016-02-05 16:18:25] arbitrage001 : and consolidate the smaller firms into their own
[2016-02-05 16:18:56] elmorte : Banks must remain as long as fiat is default currency
[2016-02-05 16:19:05] arbitrage001 : there will be bank
[2016-02-05 16:19:20] arbitrage001 : just not as many branches and brand as it is today
[2016-02-05 16:20:17] arbitrage001 : remember one thin
[2016-02-05 16:20:19] tscha : lol @ startups need "organic growth" :D
[2016-02-05 16:20:46] arbitrage001 : banks and investment firms dont really create anything of value
[2016-02-05 16:21:11] elmorte : tscha: :p taken out of context
[2016-02-05 16:21:28] sleger : arbitrage001: that's what media want you to believe
[2016-02-05 16:21:42] sleger : most people dont understand the value of banks / "investment firms"
[2016-02-05 16:21:52] tscha : arbitrage001: then no service provider creates value according to you?
[2016-02-05 16:22:02] arbitrage001 : please educate us then
[2016-02-05 16:22:22] tscha : what about travel agencies? they don't create value either.. they just bundle stuff and sell it
[2016-02-05 16:22:41] arbitrage001 : value added
[2016-02-05 16:23:26] tscha : a barber doesn't "create" value either
[2016-02-05 16:23:39] tscha : he charges money for a service
[2016-02-05 16:24:15] tscha : same with for example m&a @ investment banks
[2016-02-05 16:38:39] tscha : Crazy that China actually kidnapped the bookstore owner from Hongkong. Better take care BitMEX_Wally and praise Xi in the next Bitmex Crypto Blogs :)
[2016-02-05 16:38:56] sleger : arbitrage001: one part of bank activity is actually to provide insurance. Do you think insurance companies are also useless ?
[2016-02-05 16:40:33] elmorte : Right now, we need banks to legally shuffle money around. With the implementation of blockchain, that service becomes redundant, correct?
[2016-02-05 16:49:47] arbitrage001 : sleger: Yes, I do think insurance companies are scammy
[2016-02-05 16:50:09] sleger : so you drive without one, your house doesnt have any kind of insurance?
[2016-02-05 16:50:28] sleger : you dont have health insurance ?
[2016-02-05 16:50:30] arbitrage001 : driving insurance is mandatory by law
[2016-02-05 16:50:39] sleger : ok, depends where but ok
[2016-02-05 16:51:17] arbitrage001 : as for health insurance, my opinion is insurance is why health care cost are out of control
[2016-02-05 16:52:25] arbitrage001 : hospital in my country charge people with insurance more
[2016-02-05 16:52:48] arbitrage001 : in fact, once they know your coverage limit
[2016-02-05 16:52:56] arbitrage001 : they charge you close to that ammount
[2016-02-05 16:53:44] arbitrage001 : fuck up system we live in
[2016-02-05 16:54:01] arbitrage001 : f-ck up system we live in
[2016-02-05 16:54:17] elmorte : arbitrage001: I think that's par for the course...and I'm certain I live very far away from you
[2016-02-05 16:54:36] elmorte : I had minor surgery mid January....it was covered by ins
[2016-02-05 16:54:57] elmorte : But when I saw the total bill, I was like WTF, half this shit never happened